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Nancy Grace
Did Man Accused of Murdering Wife Also Plan to Get Rid of In-Laws?
Aired November 01, 2005 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LISA PINTO, GUEST HOST: Tonight, a man already in jail, accused of murdering his wife. Did he also plan a hit on his in-laws from behind bars?
Good evening, everybody. I`m Lisa Pinto, sitting in for Nancy Grace tonight, and I want to thank you for being with us.
Tonight, breaking news in the case of a gorgeous college student from Illinois whose burned body was found in a Mississippi barn. Police now plan to talk to a man who is already behind bars on unrelated charges.
But first: Did a man in jail for allegedly murdering his wife conspire with his dad to whack his in-laws? Janet March disappeared in 1996. Just two months ago, her husband, Perry, was arrested in Mexico and brought back to the U.S., police saying they have a strong circumstantial case against him. But March`s attorney calls the prosecution desperate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If at any time, you question (ph) and you decide you don`t want to speak, that`s your right and you don`t have to. Do you understand?
PERRY MARCH, ACCUSED OF MURDERING HIS WIFE: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you do understand the charges on the indictment, is that correct?
MARCH: Fairly well. Thank you, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINTO: Good evening. I`m Lisa Pinto, in for Nancy Grace tonight. That was Perry March talking about charges that he had murdered his wife back in 1996, and furthermore, that he conspired with his father to whack his in-laws over a bitter custody battle.
Tonight, joining me, I have counsel for Perry March, Bill Massey, Willy Stern, a reporter from "The Nashville Scene," the usual suspects, Debra Opri, David Schwartz and Bethany Marshall.
Let me go straight to Bill Massey, counsel for Perry March. What do you say to these allegation that your client joined forces with his dad to allegedly whack his in-laws?
BILL MASSEY, ATTORNEY FOR PERRY MARCH, ACCUSED OF KILLING WIFE: On next Wednesday, November the 9th, we will say not guilty.
PINTO: A very good answer. But I mean, this is -- this is -- this rings of Scott Peterson to me. You have an affluent couple. Suddenly, the wife disappears, and the husband`s behavior is very, very strange. With Scott Peterson, we had umbrellas, open umbrellas in back of the pick-up truck that he was driving around in the day Laci disappeared. And here we have your client with a rolled-up rug in the middle of his house, a brand- new rug that suddenly disappears. What do you say, Mr. Massey?
MASSEY: We don`t know what to think about this rug. If it`s the prosecution`s theory that Perry March killed his wife, rolled her up in a rug and left her there in the middle of the house while the children was there, while the maid was there, and while a company came in the following day, then that will just have to be their theory. I don`t think that would be their theory.
PINTO: Going to Willy Stern, reporter for "The Nashville Scene" covering this case -- Willy, set up this story for us. Husband and wife back in `96, what happened?
WILLY STERN, "NASHVILLE SCENE" CONTRIBUTING WRITER: Well, nobody`s quite sure what happened, but it`s a fascinating and tragic case that has riveted Nashville. Quickly, the facts -- in 1996, Janet Levine (ph), a beautiful Jewish woman with two beautiful children, goes missing in the sweltering August heat. And nobody -- she doesn`t get reported missing for two weeks.
PINTO: And what about the fact that her husband, Perry March, had been working in a law firm, brilliant lawyer, all of a sudden, he gets fired, and there are allegations of sexual harassment.
STERN: Right. That`s part of the circumstantial case which the prosecutors are putting forward, that he wrote some steamy sexually explicit letters to a young red-headed paralegal there and...
PINTO: Uh-oh! Can`t do that! Lost his job, right?
STERN: Well, he left his job, in any event, and he reached an out-of- court settlement with the woman for sexual harassment, which he didn`t tell his wife about and...
PINTO: And then where does he get a job after that?
STERN: He goes to work for his father-in-law.
PINTO: Oh, the same father-in-law that he`s accused to a plot to kill! Nice guy! So what happens? All of a sudden, there`s some sort of discussion in the home, and the next day, the wife is gone, is that right?
STERN: The prosecutors allege that Perry March, who has a black belt in karate and is capable of killing someone without leaving any blood or marks, perhaps accidentally, when his wife confronted him about the sexual harassment and the payments, that he killed her. Perry, of course, says this is not true and he wishes that she would come back to him.
PINTO: Now -- but he didn`t stick around long, did he. Didn`t he move to Chicago and then now -- and then to Mexico?
STERN: It became -- he got involved in a very ugly and heated custody battle with his in-laws for the two beautiful children, and there was a lot of publicity locally. It was a very big deal, and he wanted to get them out of the spotlight of the media, and he took them to Chicago and then eventually joined his father in Guadalajara in Mexico.
PINTO: And from there, he was brought back to the U.S. once he was indicted on the original murder charge, is that right?
STERN: He was indicted for second degree murder, and they brought him back recently in chains to a jail in Nashville.
PINTO: Quickly, to Bill Massey. Mr. Massey, what I find so fascinating here is not just the circumstantial case that the prosecution is building, but the alleged statements your client made when being brought back from Mexico. There`s some discussion that he said something about if he pled guilty, he could just tie this whole thing up. True or false?
MASSEY: Lisa, you have to look at the context of these statements. You had two seasoned professionals on that plane, one a 25-year veteran of the homicide department, the other a lawyer. And both were fishing for information from each other.
PINTO: Yes, Bill, but your client`s a lawyer. Your client is not the ordinary Joe.
MASSEY: Well, that`s exactly...
PINTO: This is a guy -- a seasoned practitioner...
MASSEY: That`s exactly right.
PINTO: ... editor of the law review. So if anybody should know better than to open their mouth, it would be him, is that right?
MASSEY: That`s exactly right, and that`s why, when the police officer was asking him for information, Perry was asking the police officer, Well, you know, maybe I should plead. What type of information do you have to use against me?
PINTO: Maybe I should plead?
MASSEY: Yes.
PINTO: Not the words of an innocent man, Mr. Massey!
Dave Schwartz, what do you do with that statement, if your client is gifted (ph) enough to say something like that?
DAVID SCHWARTZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Excuse me. I move to suppress that statement, Lisa.
PINTO: Oh.
SCHWARTZ: It seems to me that he was represented by counsel on that plane trip.
PINTO: Oh!
SCHWARTZ: He was already accused of a crime. He was being brought back. He represented by counsel. The police, the investigators, the homicide detective had absolutely no right whatsoever to question that defendant!
PINTO: All right, David...
SCHWARTZ: That evidence is going out the window!
PINTO: All right, let me ask Deb Opri -- then -- now we have a guy in Mexico who says, By the way, this bright light, Perry March, threatened to whack me, too, when he didn`t like when our business deal went south.
DEBRA OPRI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Let me tell you what my friend, the prosecutor named Sandy (ph), said to me today when we talked about this case. She said, Hey, look, this is going to be all about circumstantial evidence. And I said, yes? Starting where? First of all, there`s no body, nine years. Two reasonable explanations. Three, you get a bunch of people wherever giving information to investigators. Prove it. Show me their credibility. Show me what deals they have made. Show me where they`re getting their information.
PINTO: Debra, everybody`s lying! The guy in Mexico`s lying. The snitch in this jail is lying. The cops are lying.
OPRI: It`s a nine-year case, Lisa. Nine years! It`s old news. And it`s nothing like Scott Peterson. Like you said...
PINTO: Debra, lets...
OPRI: ... they didn`t get a body. The body was a biggie in the Scott Peterson case. Ain`t no body in this case.
PINTO: Yes, but we`ve got a kid -- now we`ve got a kid. We`ve got an eyewitness who says that mommy and daddy are fighting the night before mommy disappeared...
OPRI: I`d hate to see witnesses...
PINTO: ... and then she was gone!
OPRI: ... in my house when my husband and I are fighting. They`d have me up on charges in 24 hours.
(LAUGHTER)
PINTO: Especially after last night, when they had a little sugar, right?
(LAUGHTER)
PINTO: I don`t know what your house is like, but now the crew here is eating a lot of sugar.
Let me go quickly back to the reporter. Bring us up to speed on the - - wasn`t there a recent indictment on the father/son murder for hire allegation?
STERN: Yes. It recently came out that Perry and his father, both of whom have checkered pasts -- they allege that Perry, while in solitary confinement here in a jail in Nashville, conspired to hire a hitman to kill his mother and father-in-law. And they said that they have intercepted verbal and written communications, which they are allowed to do, in and out of the jail.
PINTO: So they`ve got the defendant -- they have something with his handwriting, like, This is where my in-laws live, at 35 Crescent Street. Usually, they come home at 7:00 o`clock at night. And he just -- how do you explain that, Bill Massey? What do you tell a jury? What good reason is there for one man in jail to give a seasoned felon with a rap sheet the size of the Encyclopedia Britannica -- what reason is there for him to give this information about his in-laws? I want Bill Massey, Elizabeth (ph), not this -- not my reporter here, please.
MASSEY: We don`t know that he has given any type of information. I know, at this point, that that is alleged in the indictment. I have not seen this piece of paper. I have not seen this information. And I`m looking forward to seeing it, and that way, we can evaluate that piece of evidence a bit more thoroughly.
PINTO: So Mr. Massey, are you going to say it`s not your client`s handwriting when you see it? Is that -- is that...
MASSEY: I don`t know until I see it. I will not know.
PINTO: What about the fact -- OK, a jailhouse snitch. I know you`re going to be all over that, Mr. Massey, the fact that this man, with a very long rap sheet, is going to be the state`s witness in this murder-for-hire case. And he`s going to come forward, and you`re going to cross until the cows come home, am I right~?
MASSEY: This man has two names. That`s unusual. I think that`s unusual. I have a middle name, but I don`t have two names.
PINTO: All right. So maybe his relationship with the truth in that instance isn`t great. But I mean, this is great stuff. This is like right out of "The Sopranos." You`ve got -- you`ve got the jail cell communication that`s alleged, Would you please whack my in-laws because I want my kids back? I mean, how do you play this to a -- I assume a Southern conservative jury?
MASSEY: Well, Lisa, you`ve got to know how that jail area is set up. Those are individual isolated cells, and the inmates are kept in their cells for 22 hours a day. They`re only let out for two hours a day, and they`re not allowed to mix much. There`s very limited contact between inmates.
PINTO: Yes, but I`m thinking there`s a wire here. And let me go to Deb Opri on this. When you hear that the informant called Mr. March`s father and said, I killed them, I whacked them, and Mr. March`s father says, OK, I`ll come to the airport and pick you up, you got to think that`s not going to play well.
OPRI: No. In the sum totality, what does it mean? This case will only be a circumstantial case. It`s going to be one of those pieces of the puzzle. You`re going to get all these little players. It`s going to be an "All In the Family" thing -- Daddy helped me do this. I took the kids, ran to Mexico. I fell in love with a Mexican lady. It`s going to be "All in the Family," and where does this informant fit in? And why does he get connected to the father? And what exactly did the father assume he was saying to say, I`m going to come pick you up at the airport?
(CROSSTALK)
OPRI: But maybe it led to him saying, What have you got to say? I`ll talk to you in person.
PINTO: You know, I`m all for my kids having play dates, but if my son were to call me and tell me that a felon that I used to be in jail with needs a ride from the airport...
OPRI: So what?
PINTO: ... and this said felon then says, I think on tape, says words to the effect, like, I did it, the Levines are dead -- where do you go with that?
OPRI: You know what my answer is? As a criminal defense attorney -- and Mr. Massey will agree with me -- show me the credibility problems. This guy is going to be spewing out the mouth with credibility problems. I don`t care about what he said on the phone regarding, Pick me up at the airport. All I`ll have to say is, You know, you haven`t got much to go on, Stella (ph), and I`ll attack your credibility down the way. And that`s all he got. So what? So what?
PINTO: Debra, I don`t know what your father-in-law would say, but mine would certainly -- if he was told on the telephone, I whacked someone, his answer wouldn`t be, OK, no problem. I`m coming to the airport to get you. There`s just no way...
OPRI: When did it happen...
PINTO: ... around that!
OPRI: No, there`s many ways around this. When did it happen? What were the circumstances leading up to it? Were there allegations prior? All I can tell you is, if that`s all there is, my answer as a criminal defense attorney will be, So what? Is that all there is? So what? Show me more. Is there anything more? I`d be tough along that line, Lisa.
PINTO: All right. Good point.
Back to Mr. Stern, the reporter from the Nashville paper. Has this case -- I mean, this must just be the talk of the town in Tennessee these days.
STERN: Look, it`s got sex, and it has got alleged murder and alleged murder for hire and it`s got international intrigue and it`s got custody and it`s got kids, and it`s all taking place in a very upscale Nashville power Jewish community. And so you know, it is the buzz on the cocktail party circuit.
PINTO: Boy. More on this fascinating case after the break.
But first, to tonight`s "Case Alert." Natalee Holloway`s mother is headed back to Aruba today to continue the search for her daughter. Natalee disappeared May 30 while on a high school graduation trip to the island. Aruban authorities released all three suspects in the case, and prime suspect Joran Van Der Sloot left Aruba for college in Holland. This fall, Natalee would have started college at the University of Alabama.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCH: I am stating to you that it is my intention that Judge Betty Adams Green (ph) doesn`t have jurisdiction to make a decision about how I tie my shoelace, let alone taking my children away from me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINTO: That`s Perry March hiding in Mexico, some would say, now indicted on two separate counts of murder two and murder -- conspiracy to commit murder for hire. I`m Lisa Pinto, sitting in for Nancy Grace. More on this fascinating story from Tennessee, alleged murder for hire attempt.
Let me bring Willy Stern from "The Nashville Scene." Willy, this case gets even thicker, as it were, because there`s a whole `nother element of co-conspirators, one of whom is alleged to be a money launderer, is that right?
STERN: Well, in the indictment, they allege that a man named Paul Eikel (ph), who is a felon and who had a nightclub in Nashville and who Perry March, the accused, did legal work for, was somehow involved in the murder of Janet March. Eikel doesn`t have any idea why he`s on the prosecution witness list and alleges that he has nothing to do with it. So I guess we may have to wait until trial to find out what role he may have alleged to have played.
PINTO: Is there some talk about building permits and bodies disappearing and -- is that what`s alleged, Mr. Stern?
STERN: For nine years, every conspiracy theorist in Nashville has come up with a theory as to where the body is.
PINTO: OK.
STERN: Is it in concrete? Is it in a lake? Is it in the back of the house? Is it in the yard? Is it in a dumpster?
PINTO: No body. We know there`s no body.
STERN: The fact of the matter is, there is no body...
PINTO: You don`t need a body!
STERN: ... there is no blood, there is no murder weapon, and it is a purely circumstantial case.
PINTO: David Schwartz, you don`t need a body here. When you add another -- I got another statement for you. Apparently, when asked, this stellar man, Perry March -- when asked if he`d like to take a lie-detector test, he says, Oh, no, the anti-stress medication I`m taking might mess up the results. David, come on!
SCHWARTZ: Lisa, lots of people are worried about taking lie-detector tests. Yes, it would help if they had a body. Obviously, it makes the case a lot stronger if you have a body. It puts into question whether or not she`s even dead or not, at this point, Lisa. How do you prove that beyond a reasonable doubt?
PINTO: David...
SCHWARTZ: What evidence do you have that she`s actually not alive at this point?
PINTO: I`ll tell you what. Remember Scott Peterson looking at his cell phone while everyone else was having a vigil for his missing wife? Well...
SCHWARTZ: But they had a body!
PINTO: ... why wasn`t this guy, Perry March, looking for his wife? Why didn`t he let the cops onto his place?
SCHWARTZ: Because the circumstances...
PINTO: Why is he hanging out in Mexico?
SCHWARTZ: ... are completely different! The circumstances -- you`re going to find out at trial, probably, why he wasn`t. We don`t know all the facts right now. But the bottom line is, Lisa, it puts totally into question whether or not this person has died or not. They need to prove each and every element of this crime beyond a reasonable doubt, and one of the elements is the person has to be dead to commit murder!
PINTO: Dave, remember the case of the doctor who was accused of killing his wife, remember that he threw her body...
SCHWARTZ: Out of the plane, yes.
PINTO: ... out of the airplane? No body. They got a conviction.
SCHWARTZ: You`re right, but the conviction rate is much lower when they don`t have bodies, as opposed...
PINTO: So now you can convict someone without a body!
SCHWARTZ: I told you you can convict. It just make the case a lot weaker, Lisa.
PINTO: But what about this manipulation of the kids? At one point, the kids were saying that mommy and daddy were fighting and mommy disappeared. Now the kid has a new story. As I a parent, I do not like someone messing with this kid. You know, it`s...
(CROSSTALK)
SCHWARTZ: You`re assuming that the kids were manipulating. You`re assuming that. Kids change their stories all the time. It`s a fact of life.
PINTO: Mr. Massey...
SCHWARTZ: Kids change their...
(CROSSTALK)
PINTO: Is it not true that -- sir, is it not a fact that the children are now telling a different story about the night? And that`s...
MASSEY: Not that I know of, Lisa. Not that I know of.
PINTO: Well, weren`t they -- 20 years ago, didn`t they say that mommy and daddy had an argument, and now all of a sudden, they see mommy leaving the house?
MASSEY: That was -- yes, that was what was initially said, and that`s -- and nothing`s changed that I know of.
PINTO: Well, what do the children think happened to their mother? What have they told you?
MASSEY: Oh, I haven`t spoken to the children. They`ve been -- they`ve not been accessible to us.
PINTO: So Mr. Massey, why is your client happening out in Guadalajara, Mexico? I mean, come on!
MASSEY: He went to Mexico because he could not find any peace in the United States. He truly was the center of attention everywhere he went, and he was followed. And his father was in Mexico. His father was living down in the Guadalajara area.
PINTO: More on your client after the break, Mr. Massey.
But first, to tonight`s "Trial Tracking." A Georgia grand jury indicted four people for murder, assault and robbery in a string of attacks that left four dead and four injured. The victims were killed during robberies with guns and baseball bats.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It appears there was a good bit of hard feelings between the Levines and Mr. March. Would that be an accurate statement?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINTO: The case -- we`re talking about the case of Perry March, a man who is alleged to have killed his wife, flown to Mexico, then been thrown in jail and planned to murder his in-laws with his father, planned from jail to have his in-laws murdered with his own dad as an accomplice. What a case.
Quickly, back to my panel. Deb Opri, you`re telling me this is circumstantial, the state can`t prove this case. But what about the fact that there was a civil -- a jury has already heard these facts, and they did not like Mr. March. They found him responsible in the wrongful death action. What do you say to that?
OPRI: All right, let me just say this. I`m going to put on a prosecutor`s hat right now, which doesn`t fit too well, but I`m going to say if they present the case circumstantially with -- starting with laying out the night she was last seen, that it was an argument, that the kids noticed that they were fighting badly, and he says she left -- you build the case from that moment in time. You prove through testimony, one, would a mother leave without using credit cards, without any trace after that...
(CROSSTALK)
PINTO: Deb, you`re taking my thunder here!
OPRI: The point I`m...
(CROSSTALK)
OPRI: The point I`m saying to you is this. If they present a circumstantial case, whereas it started here, he winds up in Mexico, where a reasonable person wouldn`t have done that, and then you add in all the other points, circumstantially, if the jurisdiction isn`t tainted against him -- and that`s going to be a venue problem -- then I think in all likelihood...
PINTO: Yes, but they...
OPRI: ... you could get a conviction.
PINTO: Yes. Exactly. And they had less with Scott Peterson. Dave...
OPRI: But I`m going to take off my prosecutor`s hat now and say they have enough with reasonable doubt to say...
PINTO: Where`s the doubt?
OPRI: ... it looks this way, but prove it.
PINTO: Deb, who else...
OPRI: Beyond a reasonable doubt. You have to have a body. You have to have...
(CROSSTALK)
PINTO: Quickly, let me bring in my friend Dave Schwartz here. Dave, besides the civil verdict, you have this story that Mr. March tells about his wife giving him a laundry list of things to do. And let me say I`ve been married since 1997, and not a week goes by that I don`t give my husband a list of things to fix. That is not the reason to whack someone!
SCHWARTZ: No, it`s not the reason to whack someone. But this is a circumstantial case, Lisa, and so far, you`ve told me nothing. There is not one concrete, direct piece of evidence that`s even relevant here!
PINTO: Dave, what about this mystery rug...
(CROSSTALK)
PINTO: ... this mystery rug that was brand-new...
SCHWARTZ: Who cares about the...
(CROSSTALK)
PINTO: ... rolled up in the living room!
SCHWARTZ: Why is the rug such a mystery? Mr. Massey gave you four reasons why the rug is probably gone. I mean...
PINTO: I`m going to talk to the good doctor, Dave.
(CROSSTALK)
PINTO: We`ll be back. We`ll be back.
SCHWARTZ: OK. All right.
PINTO: Dr. Marshall, let me bring you in quickly. Husbands and wives, Scott Peterson -- what drives a man to kill his wife?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, you talked about the laundry list. And I have to tell you what I thought when I read about that. If he`s a sociopath, if he killed her and the allegations are true and he`s a sociopath -- sociopaths use their partners as need-satisfying objects, just for their own gratification. So often, when the partner refuses to give in, refuses to satisfy, that does precipitate homicide. Also, homicide is often motivated when the other person is perceived as standing in the way of love.
PINTO: And the in-laws, too, right? The in-laws who had -- who wanted the kids.
MARSHALL: Yes. The in-laws standing in the way of access to the children. And also, if he was writing these explicit love letters to the paralegal and the wife knew about it and...
PINTO: Dr. Marshall, let me cut you off right there. But fascinating insight into this man`s mind.
Remember, we at "NANCY GRACE" want very much to help, in our way, solve unsolved homicides and find missing people. Tonight, take a look at 15-year-old Claudia Perez, last seen in Wildwood, Florida, on October 5. If you have any information on Claudia Perez, please call Sumter County sheriff at 352-793-2621, or you can go on line to beyondmissing.com. Please help us try to find Claudia Perez. Your tips can solve these cases.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOPHIA CHOI, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Hello, I`m Sophia Choi. And here`s your "Headline Prime Newsbreak."
A report looking at why Louisiana levees failed in the wake of Hurricane Katrina is being presented now to Congress. The engineers who looked at the levee system say flaws in their design played a role in their failure, but other problems, including poor maintenance and bureaucratic confusion, also contributed.
And snail mail is about to get more expensive. The Postal Rate Commission has approved a two-cent hike in the price of a stamp. The price will jump now from 37 to 39 cents. The hike is expected to go into effect in January.
And some phenomenal pictures now out of Ecuador. A volcano on the largest of the Galapagos Islands is erupting for the third straight day. Experts say it`s not threatening villagers on the island or the tortoises the island group is named after.
Well, that`s the news for now. I`m Sophia Choi. And now back to NANCY GRACE.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fire was reported on the morning of October 17th, at a location off Highway 80, in Newton County, Mississippi. On October 21st, persons cleaning up the debris discovered the body of an unidentified black female. On today`s date, we did receive confirmation that the body recovered in Newton County, Mississippi, is that of Olamide Adeyooye.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINTO: I`m Lisa Pinto sitting in for Nancy Grace. All they found was a necklace and her teeth. Those were the remains of Olamide Adeyooye, known to her friends as Lemonade, or Ollie, or Ola. Beautiful college student, 21 years old, who vanished without a trace, until her body was found in Mississippi, hours away from her college apartment, the University of Illinois.
Let me bring in the reporter, Jennifer Keiper, from WLS Radio, to bring us up to speed. What`s new in this investigation?
JENNIFER KEIPER, WLS RADIO: Well, Lisa, probably the biggest break yet is that they`ve found Olamide Adeyooye`s car in Atlanta. And what they`ve been doing is -- they found it Sunday. They`ve been processing it for information since then. They want to find out what kind of blood samples, or hair samples, or weapons may have been in that car.
They`re trying to figure out who was in that car. Investigators are also waiting for the results of a second autopsy. The first one did not reveal how Adeyooye was killed. That`s something else they`re also trying to figure out.
PINTO: Jennifer, let me stop you. There was not much left of this young lady, is that right?
KEIPER: No, that`s right. They had to use dental records to identify her.
PINTO: That`s tragic. And the bigger mystery here is, how did a college senior of Illinois State University end up dead in Mississippi in a chicken house? What are their theories at this point?
KEIPER: At this point, police aren`t saying much. They`ve been pretty quiet about this case. One big development is that a man, a 27- year-old man who lived on Olamide Adeyooye`s block, has been arrested. He is in Atlanta. He was picked up on a warrant out of Illinois on Sunday...
PINTO: Arrested? Let me throw you -- you say he`s been arrested?
KEIPER: Well, he`s being held on a warrant, on an Illinois warrant, felony theft charges.
PINTO: OK, big difference. He hasn`t been arrested on this case. He`s being held on another case.
KEIPER: Absolutely. On a separate case.
PINTO: OK. Let me bring in Lieutenant Kotte from the Normal, Illinois, police department. Lieutenant, this man, I understand he`s a felon, he lived near Ollie. He apparently, according to one friend of hers, was kicked out of a party at her apartment. Coincidentally, he`s found in Atlanta, where her car is found. Is this man a suspect?
LT. MARK KOTTE, NORMAL, ILLINOIS, POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, he`s definitely someone that we want to talk to. Right now, he`s being held in Atlanta on a warrant unrelated to this for financial identity theft.
PINTO: What`s he alleged to have done in that case?
KOTTE: Well, he allegedly got the identity of different people, and they he would get credit cards and other things like that in their names, and then, of course, get cash advances or charge things.
PINTO: OK. How about any violent crimes? Has he been convicted or accused of any violent crimes, Lieutenant?
KOTTE: At this point, I`m not aware of any right now.
PINTO: Do you have any forensics linking this man to Ollie`s disappearance and death?
KOTTE: Well, right now, we are going through the forensics right now. And they`re currently at the lab from the vehicle and also from the crime scene where her body was found and also her apartment.
PINTO: Well, I`m assuming his fingerprints are on the record, since he`s a convicted felon. Have you found any in the car?
KOTTE: Well, at this point, FBI have processed the car for us. And at this time, we`re analyzing all the evidence that they`ve taken out of the vehicle.
PINTO: You`re being very cagey here, Lieutenant. Are you pointing the finger at this man?
KOTTE: At this time, we`re not naming him as a suspect. We`re still gathering information. And we may or may not be naming him as one. We probably will talk to him once he arrives back here in McLean County, Illinois.
PINTO: Let me bring in Marc Klaas, who`s an expert on these kinds of cases, the father of Polly Klaas, who was tragically killed, gone and studied a lot of these cases.
Mr. Klaas, what are you thinking here? I understand that the boyfriend was out of town at the time that this young woman disappeared. He`s not a suspect.
MARC KLAAS, FOUNDER OF BEYOND MISSING: Well, no. And, certainly, they want to take a look at this individual that they picked up on the identity theft charge. And I think it would be really interesting to find out how he got from Illinois down to Georgia.
Is he on some kind of a passenger manifest for an airline, or a bus station, or a train? Or did he come down with a friend? Exactly how did he get down there? That might tell a lot right there.
PINTO: That would be pretty interesting. We just saw a map. The young woman, Ollie, disappeared in Normal, Illinois, around October 13th, is that right, Ellie?
Then her body is found -- there`s a fire in Mississippi on October 17th. Her body is found on October 20th. And just recently, her car, the victim`s car, is found in Georgia.
Now, if this man, this person who`s not a suspect, if he can`t explain his whereabouts, and yet he showed up mysteriously in Atlanta, that`s something to work on, right, Mr. Klaas?
KLAAS: Oh, I would think so, absolutely. You`ve got that. You`ve got the fact that he was kicked out of a party in her apartment. He seemed to be a lurker. He lurked around this young woman.
He certainly is somebody that needs as much attention as they can give him. But, that having been said, even in the Pamela Vitale case, there was a very strong suspect upfront who turned out to be an innocent individual.
PINTO: That`s right. That`s why we`re not naming anybody at this point.
KLAAS: Well, that`s one of the reasons. But what they have to do is they have to look at everybody.
PINTO: Right.
KLAAS: They have to look at people that she knew. That have to look at people who had peripheral contact with her. They have to basically, like ripples in a stream, they have to just keep moving the investigation out and out and out...
PINTO: Well-put.
KLAAS: ... until they get to the final solution, whatever that happens to be.
PINTO: Well-put.
Quickly, to Deb Opri, Deb, you were saying before, you`re a parent. I`m a parent. Would you let your kid -- this young, beautiful woman...
(CROSSTALK)
PINTO: No, no, really I want to ask you this question here. A 21- year-old woman. She`s waitressing to put herself through college. She wants to study genetic research. This is a kid who on spring break volunteers at homeless shelters instead of partying with her friends in L.A.
OPRI: Let me tell you something: She was a good soul. Ms. Adeyooye got from Illinois, to Georgia, her car`s there, her body winds up in an incinerator in a chicken house in Mississippi.
There has to be a story board. In the investigation -- and I hope not much is going to be leaked to the press -- in the investigation, you start with a story board and you`re going to put pieces on it...
PINTO: Wait, wait, Debra, I`m going to call you on that. What is wrong with leaking it to the press? That`s how they found Shasta Groene, because shows like Nancy`s reported this case and showed the guy sooner.
OPRI: Look what happened with Daniel Horowitz`s wife. They accused this man in the media. He was humiliated. And in the end, he was a suspect, but it was not him.
(CROSSTALK)
PINTO: But at the same time...
OPRI: What I`m saying is they start with a story board...
(CROSSTALK)
PINTO: ... tips led up to the teenager.
OPRI: ... go to the car, do your DNA, get your forensics done, and start with the car, work backwards to Illinois, all the possible people who could have been there...
PINTO: I`m going to bring in Dave. Dave...
OPRI: ... and work forward to the chicken house.
PINTO: Dave, what is the harm of bringing in the press? If they can find someone who saw this young woman en route to Mississippi or saw her alive after October 13th, what`s the harm?
SCHWARTZ: I agree. There`s a big harm in bringing in the press. Yes, it`s OK to have a tip line and to create the tips and let the people call in and give any information that they have.
But for us to start arguing this case in the press and start doing the detective work ourselves, and to start telling the detective, "Oh, you`re being cagey with me," come on. Come on, what`s your investigation? It`s not going to help anything to know what his internal investigation -- come on.
PINTO: Dave, if it helps -- if someone watching Nancy`s show calls in and says, "I`ve seen that guy," it helps.
SCHWARTZ: That`s a different story.
PINTO: Quickly to Dr. Marshall, Dr. Marshall, what would you advice the parents of college kids? This young woman was living off campus, apparently she blogged. She seemed to me vulnerable, 100 pounds, a small, young, trusting woman. What would you tell parents?
MARSHALL: I have very specific advice. When you blog, when you use the Internet, never give out your real name or identifying data. One in four violent crimes occurs in or near the victim`s home. Stalking is a problem in our society.
That came to mind in this crime, when I was reading about this earlier today. And with stalkers, anything other than, "No, you may not call me," is considered a collusion. The stalker will develop the illusion that the victim should return his love. He`ll become enraged when she doesn`t, and he may strike out.
PINTO: Well, quickly, to Lt. Kotte, one last question about the investigation. There was a fire -- and, sir, I wasn`t putting you on the spot. I just -- I`m trying to tell the viewers -- I`m trying to get a picture for the viewers here of what`s going on.
KOTTE: Oh, definitely. Sure. No problem.
PINTO: But her body was burned. Isn`t it true, in an arson investigation, or where a body`s been burned, that you can check under the body and often find valuable trace evidence, for example, how the blood is pooled, or whether there was an accelerant used in the fire? Can`t you do some of those tests when there`s a burned body?
KOTTE: Yes, you can. You can get some of those. And you can garner those from an arson investigation. And in this case, yes, the body was very badly burned. And that`s why the autopsy, the second autopsy, was ordered, because the first one was really inconclusive.
PINTO: And when will we get those results, the second autopsy?
KOTTE: Well, hopefully they tell us by the end of the week, hopefully.
PINTO: Oh, thank you very much. Well, stay tuned. We`ll be back after the break.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bloomington-Normal is a very safe community. And this is an incident that is extremely rare in our community. And this is a very isolated incident. It is not an incident of somebody that is going around preying on college students.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I never, ever thought that this city would see stuff like this. I have a new found respect for Mother Nature, that`s for sure. Look at this one over here to the right. Katrina destroyed it. It`s depressing. Look at the boat that was chopped in half from it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re used to just seeing these things on the news. And, like, oh, my god, look at that city. Look at what that hurricane did to Florida. Look at what that hurricane did to whatever city. You see the destruction. But this time, it`s the world looking at us. It`s not us looking at them, because it happened to us this time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINTO: I`m Lisa Pinto sitting in for Nancy Grace. You`re watching an excerpt from a Court TV documentary, "NOPD: After Katrina," which is airing tonight at 10:00 p.m.
I have with me here Officer Carroll, one of the subjects of the documentary. Officer Carroll, basically what happened? A Court TV film crew followed you around after Hurricane Katrina?
OFFICER JONATHAN CARROLL, NEW ORLEANS POLICE DEPARTMENT: Yes, Lisa, they did. Thank you for having me here.
PINTO: Oh, delighted to have you. I mean, you guys are very brave. I understand you were getting shot at, electrocuted. This was a war zone, right, after the hurricane?
CARROLL: It mimicked a war zone. I don`t know about it being like those guys fighting in Iraq. But it was definitely different, and it was a very trying time for all the police officers in the city of New Orleans.
PINTO: And how did this movie come to be? I mean, weren`t they going -- Court TV was there to film something else, is that right?
CARROLL: Well, Jackie Levine, who was producing a reality show on the New Orleans Police Department in the Eighth District, was following along with me, as well as a couple of the officers in the Eighth District at the time. And, obviously, Hurricane Katrina took the story for a different spin.
PINTO: But, Officer Carroll, I mean, you suffered personal loss here. Your home was destroyed, is that right? Your family`s living somewhere else. I understand all the police in the department are under tremendous strain because they`re stuck on a cruise ship and there families are in another state, is that right?
CARROLL: Absolutely. I lost my home, as well as 80 percent of the police department, which is an overwhelming number of police officers.
PINTO: Take a listen to the documentary.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARROLL: No, reality hasn`t hit yet. I never went in my house. So, after the water came, the things that you did yourself, like painting, there`s things destroyed by a storm and by -- yes, I don`t want to talk about it, because I don`t want to get reality. I don`t want to hit reality. I`d rather be numb right now.
If they`re stealing food and water, am I to arrest them, because they`re trying to survive out here, because they have no food and water? Absolutely not.
Is it stealing or is it survival? That`s a big difference there. But if you`re stealing a plasma TV? That`s different. You`re going to jail. But if you`re taking food and water out of a business that was torn apart by Hurricane Katrina and you enter a business, I see you take three candy bars and four waters or I see you take a thing of Similac for a baby that you`re pushing arrive, am I going to arrest you? No. No way. Because, at that point, it`s survival.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINTO: Officer Carroll, that is true. The law is not absolute. In a situation like that, you are not going to prosecute a mommy who is trying to feed her baby and takes a few cans of Similac off the street. Did you just have to throw the rule book away after Katrina and just shoot from the hip?
CARROLL: I mean, there`s always going to be -- there`s going to be laws that we have to enforce. And, unfortunately, you know, like you said, law does break down in a sense. But is it a law when somebody`s starving and they`re taking food?
Now, would I want another officer stopping my wife from taking food for my infant child, my little girl right now? No.
PINTO: No way. I think one of the things that this documentary is really showing me is that -- you know, that something I`ve always argued to juries, police officers are human beings. You`re not out to frame people. You`re not out to make arrests for the sake of making arrests. You are just doing your job and getting shot at every day. Is that right?
CARROLL: Absolutely. I think people have the common misconception that we`re robots, and we`re just put on this uniform, and we go out there, and we put on an attitude. But we`re human beings.
And, you know, we were affected by the storm, just like everybody else was. And the fact of the matter is that we supported the city of New Orleans and we supported the citizens who had left there.
PINTO: Absolutely. Let`s listen to another piece from the documentary.
CARROLL: OK.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARROLL: When people look at TV, they don`t think of it as real. It`s like, "Oh, well, that`s one secluded area that looks like that. An where I live is not going to look like that."
Sorry, Charlie. The whole entire area looks like this. The whole city of New Orleans, the whole metropolitan area. Very surreal.
All my kids` toys. Can`t get over it. Oh, my god. This is depressing. Oh, man. This is destroyed, the mold everywhere.
My bed`s still made, but it`s moved. This must be where the water line sat for a while, right here. My little girl`s room right there. Oh, man. It`s just so freakin` depressing. Everything you work hard for is just gone like that in a couple hours.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINTO: So, Officer, your home was destroyed while you were working in New Orleans right after the hurricane?
CARROLL: Yes, ma`am, it was.
PINTO: And have you been back since?
CARROLL: I went back that one time and that`s it. I advised my wife I didn`t want her to go back, but she went back and was able to salvage a couple things, like some DVD...
(CROSSTALK)
PINTO: How about your kids, their toys, their stuffed animals? I mean, are they saying, "Daddy, where`s my stuff? Where`s my bear?"
CARROLL: Well, my little girl is 1 years old, so she doesn`t really know. And that`s the best part about it, though, is that she doesn`t know what`s going on, and she won`t ever remember or have any recollection of Katrina.
And you know what? Maybe we can talk about it, but hopefully, you know, she`ll never have anything to do with another hurricane like this.
PINTO: Your department`s been under huge fire. Fifteen officers retired, nine retired, 45 quit for personal reasons, and two officers committed suicide. What is the morale like now in the police department?
CARROLL: I think we all -- as New Orleans police officers, we were all there. And we fought together as a unit. And I think it`s forged stronger bonds within the police department. And it gives us a chance to work and forge a new police department.
PINTO: Well put, Officer Carroll. Tune in tonight to "NOPD: After Katrina," a Court TV special that`s airing tonight at 10 p.m. Eastern time.
Quickly to tonight`s "All-Points Bulletin." FBI and law enforcement across the country on the lookout for this man, Jason Derek Brown. He`s wanted in connection with the 2004 Phoenix armed robbery and murder of 25- year- old Robert Keith Palomares.
Brown, who`s 36, 5`10", 180 pounds, has blond hair and green eyes. If you have any information on Jason Derek Brown, please call the FBI at area code 602-279-5511.
Local news is next for some of you. But we`ll all be right back. And remember, live coverage of a Texas mom on trial for murder, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern on Court TV.
Stay with us as we remember Marine Lance Corporal Robert Eckfield, just 23 years old, an American hero.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARROLL: Without the help of your neighbors, without the help of everybody, you`re not going to make it. You`re not going to make it. You have to help.
People are going to have their houses still here. And if they have to rebuild their houses, you can`t do it alone. And everybody can`t afford to have contractors come in. And a lot of people didn`t have insurance.
So, as far as making the city forge a stronger bond, absolutely. I`m telling you, New Orleans is going to be bigger and better. It`s going to be a bigger, better city.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINTO: I`m Lisa pinto sitting in for Nancy Grace. Very optimistic words from Officer Jonathan Carroll, who`s featured in a Court TV documentary airing at 10:00 tonight, "NOPD: After Katrina."
Officer Carroll, one question, though. You know, the police department in New Orleans was under fire before Katrina, corruption, looting, all sorts of scandals. And well, no, there were scandals before. And then, after Katrina, they were saying that even cops were looting. What do you say to critics of your police force?
CARROLL: What do I say to critics of the police force? I say everything was embellished, as well as the national media usually does, and that nobody was looting, as far as we know as a police department where I was at.
The guys that work in the district with me, we all just secured the French Quarter area, the central business district area, and all the areas that were not underwater and not destroyed. And I didn`t see any of that taking place.
PINTO: And the allegations of brutality and so forth?
CARROLL: Didn`t see it, either. That`s not something that I was around or I`ve seen.
PINTO: Thank you, Officer Carroll. I look forward to watching that documentary tonight.
I want to thank all of my guests tonight. But remember, all our talk is just meaningless if you are not watching, listening and participating in this forum on American justice.
Coming up, headlines from around the world, Larry King on CNN. I`m Lisa Pinto signing off for Nancy Grace tonight. Nancy will be back tomorrow.
I hope you join us right here tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Good night.
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