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Lewis Scooter Libby's Arraignment Today

Aired November 03, 2005 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: We do have a big morning ahead of us and let's go ahead and get started.
Within the half hour, we do expect a big development in Washington, D.C. As we look -- I think that's an across the street picture of the federal courthouse. Scooter Libby, the form chief of staff for Vice President Dick Cheney, will be arraigned on one count of obstruction of justice, two count of lying to FBI agents and two count of perjury before a federal grand jury. We have a full team of correspondents and experts and pundits to look at what lies ahead for Scooter Libby and this White House.

First, though, let's go ahead and take a look at what's happening "Now in the News."

President Bush is on his way to Argentina. That's where he'll take part in an two-day summit on economic development. He'll push for free trade. Thousand of anti-American protesters are awaiting Mr. Bush's arrival. He'll be joined by the leaders of 31 other countries from North and South America.

A meeting is underway among the so-called Gang of 14. That's a group of centrist senators who could be decisive in the latest Supreme Court nomination. Several members say they will not support a filibuster against Samuel Alito and they do not believe that he has an agenda that he'll try to advance from the bench.

Also this hour, Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan is on Capitol Hill. Live pictures there for you. He will be sharing his views and his national outlook with Congress' Joint Economic Committee. Greenspan is three month away from retiring after 18 years as the nation's top economic policymaker.

Also this hour, United Nations secretary, General Kofi Annan, is to give his first major speech on bird flu and growing concerns of a potential worldwide pandemic. Annan's speech comes two days after President Bush announced a major U.S. initiative, calling for more than $7 billion in emergency funding.

And good morning to you on this Thursday morning. I'm Daryn Kagan at CNN Center in Atlanta.

Up first this hour, Vice President Dick Cheney's former top aide goes before a judge this hour. He'll face charges in the CIA leak investigation. Lewis Scooter Libby will be arraigned on five counts, including obstruction of justice, perjury and making false statements. He's expected to plead not guilty. If the case goes to trial, Bush administration officials, including Cheney, may be called to testify. We'll spend much of the hour looking at the case against Libby.

Right now I want to welcome in our national correspondent, Bob Franken, outside the federal courthouse in Washington, our White House correspondent, Suzanne Malveaux, our senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin. The a-team is with me this morning.

Bob, let's start with you.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And while I'm outside the courthouse, Scooter Libby is now inside the courthouse. He arrived just a couple of minutes ago and he's going now up to the large ceremonial courtroom. The judge decided to use that room because of the huge amount interest in it. It's in a massive room, by the way, oftentimes used for swearing in new U.S. citizens.

In any case, Libby, as you pointed out, is facing charges all which alleged that he lied during investigation into the public disclosures of Valerie Plame as an undercover CIA operative. She's the wife of Joe Wilson, who had been a harsh administration critic. And many people who are familiar with these types of investigations say that it is oftentimes an alleged cover-up that trips up somebody as opposed to the underlying crime. No charges against Libby having to do with that.

And thus far, no charges, no indictment for Karl Rove, the president's deputy White House chief of staff now and, of course, his longtime political adviser. Patrick Fitzgerald, the special council, continues to investigate whether some of Rove's comments will cause an indictment. Rove's testimony before the grand jury or during the investigation. His lawyer provided what was regarded as a possible extenuating circumstances that gave, as Fitzgerald said, some pause to his plans to bring an indictment against Rove. Rove is still waiting to see if he, too, is going to face charges.

But today the spotlight is on a man who did not like to operate out in the open. Scooter Libby, who until last Friday was Vice President Cheney's chief of staff. Now he is facing a laborious process which beginning with the arraignment this morning, which is simply his declaration of whether he wants to plead guilty or not guilty and then the setting up of the schedule.

Daryn.

KAGAN: Bob, you mentioned Karl Rove is still on the hot seat and the possibility that Dick Cheney would have to testify in this trial. That leads us to the White House. Let's check in with Suzanne Malveaux.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Daryn, no indication that the vice president's going to show up to the courthouse today. But, of course, that is an open question. And the president, as he heads off to Argentina, of course trying to leave his domestic problems behind, but very much unclear just how all of this is going to unfold.

Of course, as Bob had mentioned before, Scooter Libby, he had to resign because of those indictments. Quickly he was replaced. David Addington as the new chief of staff for the vice president, John Hannah as the new national security adviser for the vice president. If you get the mod here, just a temperature check, one of the White House officials I spoke with this morning say that there is a lot of work to be done and people are simply just trying to put one foot in front of the other.

Now when it comes to Karl Rove, of course, whether or not he is still in legal jeopardy, that, too, a big unanswered question according to those very much familiar with the legal proceedings. I've been talking to people both in and outside of the White House about these reported discussions, about Rove's future, whether or not he, in fact, should stay. Everyone I've spoken to say that there is really no evidence and no discussion inside the White House that Karl Rove should leave. That he wants to stay in his job. That as long as he is in the legal clear, then that is really not an issue.

What is happening is that the Republican insiders who are outside of the White House, some people who even give advice to this administration, were calling for his ouster. Some people who do not believe that he should say. That he is a distraction. According to one Republican insider I spoke with, he said, these are people who don't orbit as true allies but are too big essentially to ignore.

KAGAN: Suzanne, let me just jump in here because we're getting new video. This is new video of Scooter Libby arriving at the federal courthouse. And, of course, as we reported days ago, he resigned his position as the chief of staff for Dick Cheney on the same day that he was indicted.

What does Scooter Libby do in the meantime because this could take quite a long time to reach any kind of resolution?

MALVEAUX: Well, I can tell you what Scooter Libby doesn't do, and that is he doesn't talk to the White House or people here. There was a memo that was sent out by the White House council's office essentially as soon as he resigned and turned in his badges. He was taken his clearance, his security clearance away.

A memo that went out to all of the White House staffers essentially saying that you are not to reach out to Scooter Libby and discuss this case in any shape or form. That is exactly why we hear a lot of people here at the White House saying that they've been admonished. That they simply can't talk about this. So there is definitely a division, if you will, a separation of people at the White House that the administration from even discussing this matter with Scooter Libby.

KAGAN: And how big of a loss is that for this administration? He's described I know in "Newsweek" this week as Cheney's Cheney. Make your reference to the powerful nature of Dick Cheney's position. That he would be that powerful within the Cheney administration and the Cheney office.

MALVEAUX: Well, certainly. I mean, it is a loss and people who you talk to say that they are saddened by this. But they also say that, of course, if the vice president has a deep bench just of people who he can really count on. David Addington, of course, the council to the vice president, moving into the chief of staff position. John Hannah, who was the deputy national security adviser, now becomes the national security adviser. People that he is very comfortable with.

And, Daryn, I want to bring back to that point before when Republican insiders say one of the problems that the president is facing here is that, even if he doesn't consider a shake-up, there are definitely people who are quietly turning against each other. We even saw that before the indictments were handed up where you had a Scooter Libby camp and you had a Karl Rove camp. People who were perhaps giving the media and the press little bits and piece of information that might work against the other person, that there is that kind of quiet sabotage that is occurring inside of this building and that is something that the president is going to have to deal with.

KAGAN: All right, Suzanne will stay with us, as well as Bob Franken.

Let's get to the legal side of this and bring in our Jeffrey Toobin.

Jeff, once again, to go over what is there and what isn't there. First of all, one count of obstruction of justice. Two counts of lying to FBI agent and two counts of perjury before a federal grand jury. What is not there is something that Democrats were really hoping for and that is Scooter Libby or some other official accused of revealing Valerie Plame's name and blowing her cover as a CIA undercover agent. How serious are the crimes that Scooter Libby does face?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They're certainly very serious. They're all felonies. Under the federal sentencing guideline, if he's convicted of all five counts, he almost certainly will go to prison. It's somewhat misleading to add up all the potential sentences and say that he faces 30 years in prison. That's ridiculous. He would never get a sentence of anything like that.

But certainly, if he's convicted of all five counts, he would go to prison and the order of a year or two. And that's a very serious thing for anybody, especially someone who was clearly one of the most powerful people in the United States.

KAGAN: Once again, new pictures that we're getting into us here. And we'll bring Suzanne back in. We'll get back to you, Jeff, in just a moment. Scooter Libby on crutches. Word that he broke his foot about, what, a week before the indictment came down?

MALVEAUX: That's right. The story goes that he was heading up the stairs a little bit too fast and broke his foot on the way up there. You know, somewhat of an indication of just kind of the pace the schedule that Scooter Libby really has kept up with for years with the vice president. Really his caseload, his portfolio has been broad. It has been wide, of course. Very, very close to the vice president. A big loss for Cheney.

KAGAN: Certainly not the best of times for Scooter Libby, broken foot and then this very serious indictment.

Back now to Jeff Toobin.

What exactly will take place today?

TOOBIN: What will happen is Judge Reggie Walton will offer to Scooter Libby whether he wants the indictment read to him. Undoubtedly, he will say no. He's already read the indictment. That's safe to say. And then he will enter a plea. Either he or his lawyer will say the words not guilty.

At that point they'll start scheduling the next proceedings in the case. And that's very much up to the judge. I don't know exactly how that will work. But one thing that's for sure about this case, there will be lots of legal motions before this case can go to trial. Who is eligible to testify? Will the White House assert executive privilege either in producing individuals or refusing to produce documents? What about classified information? The indictment makes a lot of references to classified information.

There's a law called the Classified Information Procedures Act, SIPA, which sets out a complicated procedure of how you disclose classified information in an open courthouse. Basically it requires both sides producing it to the judge in advance. The judge deciding what's relevant. The intelligence agencies then reviewing it to see whether it can be disclosed.

As you can tell by my own description, it's complicated. It's going take months. So this case is clearly not going to go to trial until, I would say, mid-2006 at the earliest. And we'll start to see how that procedure plays out today.

KAGAN: So the phrase speedy trial will not apply here?

TOOBIN: Yes, in quotes only.

KAGAN: OK. Back to you. I want to go back to Bob Franken and ask you about this judge, Reggie Walton, the U.S. district judge. We have entered a day where we look at the political leanings of judges in especially high profile cases. This is a judge that has been received not one, but three different appointments from Republican presidents.

FRANKEN: Right. And I should tell you that many times judges really resent that. On occasion, when I've discussed something like that on the air, the judges who were supposed to be oblivious to such things as news coverage, will contact me or our news organization to say that it wasn't fair that his political leanings were discussed.

And as a matter of fact, you'll remember the Terri Schiavo case where some of the most stinging criticisms of the Republican Congress and the Republican administration that was bringing the Terri Schiavo atter to the federal court, some of the most stinging criticism came from Republican-appointed judge. Nevertheless, this is a Republican- appointed judge and this is going to be watched, of course, very closely. But this is a case that is going to rest on its merits and is going to rest on the quality of the lawyers arguing. And it's a case also that leaves an awful lot of questions that are still swirling around. Including what the role may have been of Scooter Libby's boss, the vice president. As has been pointed out several times, the possibility exists that the vice president might testify . . .

KAGAN: Bob, let me just jump in here to tell people what we're looking at. And this is live pictures. This is the special counsel, Patrick Fitzgerald, arriving at the courthouse. He certainly has a big role in what happens today.

FRANKEN: He has a big role, but he is also intent on making sure that he presents this as a team effort. Some question whether he would be in reality the lead counsel at the trial, although he might sit at the table but he prides himself on having a strong, strong legal team to argue whatever the case is as it proceeds.

KAGAN: So our key players are in place. You have Patrick Fitzgerald and Scooter Libby.

Also, our key players will remain in place. Bob Franken, Suzanne Malveaux and Jeffrey Toobin.

We're going to take a break, but our continue continues just ahead. We are continuing to monitor the federal courthouse in the nation's capital where Scooter Libby will be making an appearance before the judge in about 20 minutes. John King is inside the courtroom. He'll join us as soon as the arraignment is complete with details of what went on there.

Also ahead, the CIA leak and the Supreme Court vacancy. Just two of the new conflicts between the parties. I'll be talking with representatives of both Democrats and Republicans, including DNC Chairman and former Presidential Candidate Howard Dean.

And speaking of the Supreme Court, President Bush's latest nominee is back on Capitol Hill today. Why today's visit may be the most important of all. Stay with us.

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KAGAN: Lewis Scooter Libby, Vice Preside Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, due to be arraigned this hour on charges in connection with the CIA leak investigation. These pictures taken just a few minutes ago as Libby arrived at the federal courthouse in Washington, D.C. There are no cameras allowed inside the courtroom, but we have the next best thing. Our John King is there inside and he'll join us live as soon as the arraignment is complete with details on what happened.

Waiting with us from Burlington, Vermont, Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean.

Governor, good morning. Thanks for being here with us.

HOWARD DEAN, CHAIRMAN, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Thanks for having me on.

KAGAN: I want to talk about what's happening here this morning. What's your take on these charges? A 22-month investigation by a special counsel. No charges that anybody revealed Valerie Plame's name and identity as a secret agent for the CIA. All you have is a vice president's chief aide accused of lying to a bunch of -- about conversations with a bunch of reporters. What do you make of that?

DEAN: Well, actually, it's a little more difficult than that. He's actually charged with the same things that most cover-up people are charged with, obstruction of justice, perjury. Pretty serious charges. And interestingly enough, the special prosecutor did name "official a," which turns out to be Karl Rove.

KAGAN: But he didn't name the name.

DEAN: Ah, yes, but that's been leaked since from the White House.

So what we have is this practical, not only is the vice president's chief of staff being indict for lying, for perjury and for obstruction of justice, but we have someone, Karl Rove, on the taxpayer's payroll with a security clearance who leaked the name of a CIA agent. I think it's outrageous. Trent Lott yesterday called for the resignation of Karl Rove. I think he should be fired as well. I never thought I'd agree with Trent Lott, but I sure do on this one.

KAGAN: We'll mark it down on this day.

On Friday, Patrick Fitzgerald, the special counsel, said specifically, anyone looking for these charges and the possible upcoming trial to be a trial about pre-war intelligence on the war in Iraq will be disappointed. That's not what this is about. Were you disappointed to hear that?

DEAN: No. I think that's true from a narrow legal ground. I'm looking for a much greater ethical ground. This is a little like Watergate. The deed was done and then the cover-up came. What Scooter Libby is being charged with is the cover up because that's easier charges to prove.

But the truth is that had the president not misled the American people about the war, this wouldn't have happened. Because they got into trouble, much like Nixon, when they tried to discredit the people who were telling the truth, like Joe Wilson. So, you know, this is -- when you build your policy on things that aren't true, you're apt to have a bad result. And this is the bad result that the Bush folks have gotten. Not to mention the bad result of over 2,000 brave American soldiers being killed because the president didn't level with the American people before he sent us over there.

KAGAN: Governor, let me give you a chance to answer your critics. What they're saying, the Democrats, the Democrats are imploding that this indictment -- that the Democrats are frustrated by this. That it didn't turn out to be that you wanted it to be. The Alito nomination to be the next Supreme Court justice, that's frustrating because it's going to be difficult to stop that nomination. As well as what we saw happen earlier this week with Rule 21 in the Senate and the Democrats shutting that down. That that is all examples of the Democratic Party run amok. What do you say to that?

DEAN: I think the Republican Party didn't have much to stand on. They have a president who's below 40 percent in the polls, who people don't trust even to defend the country anymore. The truth is, we'll do better. Americans who can do better if we're together. The first thing is, we're going to put ethics legislation in to end the culture of corruption the Republicans brought to Washington and we're going to make the Democrats live by that ethics legislation, not just the Republicans.

KAGAN: When you say, we are going do that, where is that we? Where is that going to happen?

DEAN: The Democratic Party will do it when we take over Congress in 2006. We will have tough ethics legislation and Congress will start to balance the budget. Something which no Republican has been able to do for 40 years, and so we can keep jobs in America. We're going to have a healthcare system that covers everybody and not just a few people so we can keep jobs in America because healthcare cost are driving businesses and jobs out of this country.

We're going to have a complete change. We're ready for this. I thought Harry Reid was courageous the other day when he demanded some honest answers which the Republicans have not given us since the war in Iraq began. We're going to continue to stand up to the Republicans because we don't think the Republicans are doing the right things for America. We'll pull Americans back together again and we'll bring honest government back to Washington.

KAGAN: We will be watching it. Governor, thank you for your time today.

DEAN: Thanks very much.

KAGAN: Howard Dean joining us from Burlington, Vermont.

We thought the civilized way to do this today would be back-to- back instead of against each other. So joining me now from Tallahassee, Florida, Ron Kaufman, the former political director of the Republican National Committee. Also was a political adviser to former President George H.W. Bush.

Ron, good morning. Thanks for being here with us.

RON KAUFMAN, FORMER RNC POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Good morning. Glad to be here.

KAGAN: Let's look at what is happening in Washington, D.C., almost exactly at this moment. This is the first sitting White House official to be indicted in 130 years. This is serious stuff.

KAUFMAN: Well, it is serious, absolutely, which is why he's no longer an employee of the White House. But I have to smirk at my friend, Howard Dean.

KAGAN: Smirk!

KAUFMAN: Who's the -- yes, well, his party had more scandals during the Clinton presidency than we've had hurricanes this year in Florida. So, I mean, listen, this president has done a great job. I defy you to tell me the name of the last three sitting chiefs of staffs to vice presidents. (INAUDIBLE) a staff person.

This administration's gone beyond this whole issue and we're now doing things like making sure that the 3.8 percent growth in the economy last quarter continues. We get gas prices down where they belong. The president's now down in South America making sure that our allies down there are with us on issues. So we're moving well beyond this.

KAGAN: Don't you think that Americans get tired, the average American gets tired of the finger-pointing of, oh, well they lied worse or they were indicted more? That people just want good, honest politicians to be working in Washington, instead of people making excuses for acts that might have happened?

KAUFMAN: I couldn't agree with you more and that's the whole point here. This is not about who got who. It used to be in our great country you were innocent until proven guilty. According to Dean and his friends, it's now you're guilty even if not charged. So let's move on from this silliness. Let's go on to the serious business facing America.

We have a lot of problems in this country that we've got to solve. The economy's moving right, let's keep it that way.

KAGAN: I...

KAUFMAN: We had three...

KAGAN: Go ahead. I'm sorry.

KAUFMAN: And we had there terrible hurricanes hit the Gulf region, hit Florida. Let's make sure the recovery goes well.

KAGAN: Well, if you want to talk hurricane recovery, that might not be a strength, the response to the hurricanes, for the Republican Party.

What I want to do is kind of turn the tables and challenge the Republican Party like I just challenged Governor Dean here. You could make the case that the Republican Party and this White House is in a mess. That you have this indictment that Scooter Libby faces today. The Harriet Miers nomination, that didn't work out. And the Democrats rising up in the Senate suddenly showing they have a spine. So is this a White House in crisis?

KAUFMAN: Absolutely not. First of all, this is a staff person, not a president. But we had an impeached president just not too long ago under President Clinton. Was impeached, actually. Harriet Miers withdrew and she should have, quite frankly, and I love Harriet, but she withdrew. And we now have a very strong, good candidate in Alito who will be confirmed.

And so these things are minor ticks along the road. Every president has them. Quite frankly, and particularly in the second term of any administration.

But again, it's really about ideas. It's really about where the nation's going. It's really about jobs and is your home safe and can you afford gasoline. That's what counts.

KAGAN: Well, and that has got, at the end of the day, got to be the biggest frustration of members of the Republican Party because, if nothing else, this is a distraction to getting to the domestic agenda that President Bush wanted to get to in his second term. They're not there on Capitol Hill today talking about tax reform. You know, not talking about federal budget cuts and other things and social security reform. All things that the president wanted to get to. Other things have now taken center stage.

KAUFMAN: Well, let's talk about Capitol Hill right now is a silly act of Democrats yesterday trying to kick the press out of a session, trying to keep the public out of a session for a publicity stunt. That's what they're really talking about. Unfortunately, you're exactly right and we should be talking about the tax reform package that the president's commission came back with yesterday. That really counts to average Americans, so they can keeping more of their money they earn every day. You're totally right on that. And we have these publicity stunts and we have people saying Karl Rove should resign when, in fact, he wasn't even indicted . . .

KAGAN: What do you think about that, by the way?

KAUFMAN: Well, it's silly. The special prosecutor and everyone agrees that this was a great special prosecutor. He went 22 months with the big team of people, spending millions of dollars and, as you said earlier, found no wrongdoing when it came to the initial charge of, did anybody in the White House out a CIA agent. The answer was, no.

KAGAN: Ron Kaufman, I thank you for your time today.

KAUFMAN: Enjoyed it. Thank you.

KAGAN: A good conversation with you and Governor Dean, as well. We appreciate your time and civilized conversation.

We are continuing our coverage of the big story this morning. It is the arraignment of Lewis Scooter Libby. We are going live to the federal courthouse in Washington. Our John King is inside that courthouse in the courtroom. He'll join us as soon as the arraignment is over with details.

Plus, the Senate's so-called Gang of 14. They are playing a big role in the confirmation of Supreme Court Nominee Samuel Alito. A live report from the Capitol when CNN LIVE TODAY returns. Oh, but first, let's go ahead and take a look at the numbers on a day when Alan Greenspan is on Capitol Hill. The markets looking strong. The Dow is up 42 points and the Nasdaq in positive territory as well. It is up 13 points. We'll be back after this.

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