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PAULA ZAHN NOW
Death Row Inmate Escapes From Texas Prison; Kevin Trudeau Under Fire; Young Girls Take on Abercrombie & Fitch
Aired November 4, 2005 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everybody. Glad to have you with us as we wrap up the week here tonight.
Texas is gripped by fear, as the dragnet grows for an escaped death row inmate.
ZAHN (voice-over): A massive manhunt tonight for a Texas killer on the loose -- his victim's families living in fear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had a hit list for witnesses. And I was on that hit list. Now, how can this happen?
ZAHN: Past guards, past gates. How did he fake his way to freedom?
Health, wealth and Kevin Trudeau.
KEVIN TRUDEAU, AUTHOR: Blood clots, varicose veins, asthma, arthritis.
ZAHN: A blockbuster book, a notorious past.
(on camera): You're a convicted felon. Why should anyone listen to what you have to say about health matters?
(voice-over): Tonight, startling new allegations about Kevin Trudeau's media empire.
And character disorders.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a freak show. You know, it's a free- for-all.
ZAHN: From Elmo to Elvis to Spider-Man -- why are the Hollywood cops putting the squeeze on our superheroes?
ZAHN: Tonight, I want to start with something happening right now as we speak, a dragnet over Houston, as police search for a convicted killer, a death row inmate who they say simply walked out of jail in Houston.
How? Charles Victor Thompson slipped by everyone yesterday wearing civilian clothes and waving a fake I.D. And, even while the manhunt continues tonight, the people who run the Harris County Jail have a lot of explaining to do.
Here's Keith Oppenheim.
KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Charles Victor Thompson is a 35-year-old convicted killer. Prosecutors described him as a pretty boy, someone who looked appealing, but was, in fact, deadly.
On Thursday afternoon, at the Harris County Jail in Houston, police say Thompson found a way to transform himself and con his way out through these doors to freedom.
DANNY BILLINGSLEY, HARRIS COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: There's a series of mistakes here. There's like a lot of catastrophic events that happened.
OPPENHEIM: Investigators believe Thompson smuggled street clothes that he wore for a court appearance back to his jail cell and then found a way to change in a booth like this one, a booth used for meetings between attorneys and inmates.
LT. JOHN MARTIN, SPOKESMAN, HARRIS COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: He got out of his inmate jumpsuit, the orange clothing they commonly wear, changed into civilian clothing. He was handcuffed when he was taken into the attorney booth and, apparently, was able to -- to get out of the handcuffs. We do not know if he had a key or if he just slipped the cuffs off.
OPPENHEIM: It was in April of 1998 that prosecutors say Charles Victor Thompson stormed into the apartment of his ex-girlfriend, Dennise Hayslip, shot her and her new boyfriend, Darren Keith Cain. Both victims died.
Thompson was found guilty and sent to death row. On appeal, Texas courts upheld the conviction, but ruled that, during the trial, Thompson's right to counsel had been violated. He was granted a new sentencing hearing, but, once again, received the death penalty. Officials say, within 45 days, he would have been transferred back to state prison and death row. Now he's a killer on the loose.
BILLINGSLEY: We will find out what happened. And, when we do, we will correct it, OK? And the chips -- let the chips fall where they may.
OPPENHEIM: Now police are carrying Thompson's picture, searching throughout the area for where he might have gone. The relatives of murder victim Dennise Hayslip live in Tomball, Texas, a Houston suburb. Dennise's mother, Wynona Donaghy, is packing up, preparing to live in a safe house under police protection. She is afraid. Prosecutors said, while Thompson was in jail, he made a hit list targeting Dennise Hayslip's family. WYNONA DONAGHY, MOTHER OF MURDER VICTIM: He's a very scary individual, and I want him caught, and I want nobody else getting hurt. And I want my life back. I can't -- I can't function right now.
OPPENHEIM: Wynona isn't alone. All Houston area residents will probably feel a little uneasy until Charles Thompson is back in prison.
ZAHN: And that was Keith Oppenheim reporting.
A little bit later on, we hope to hear from Lieutenant John Martin, who will try to explain to us how this happened. We are now hearing for the first time a sheriff's department spokesperson say that this man was able to escape because of 100 percent human error. But there are so many questions raised by this piece. Did this man escape on foot or by car? Apparently, all the vehicles of his family members are accounted for. So, we have got lots of questions to pose to Lieutenant John Martin. We hope to talk with him in a little bit.
Now, as we speak right now, a Maryland woman is waiting in the hospital for another operation, after her husband doused her with gasoline and set her on fire. But that's only part of her story. The woman's family is outraged at the judge who they say let her down when she was most vulnerable.
Here's Jason Carroll with more.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Yvette married Roger Hargrave, she hoped, like any bride, to spend the rest of her life living happily with the man she loved.
But, soon after, she realized she was wrong. Police say the same man she had once loved ultimately tried to kill her.
"I felt intimidated and was in fear of him," she says. "I was always aware of my surroundings. I was always concerned for my daughter's safety as well." These are Cade's first public comments about Hargrave. She can barely speak about the three years she spent married to him. That's because she's in critical condition, recovering from a brutal attack she suffered, allegedly at the hands of her estranged husband.
She left Hargrave almost a year ago.
SHEREEN JACKSON, SISTER OF YVETTE CADE: She had her hands sliced open trying to get away from him.
CARROLL: Her family says that, even after she left, Hargrave was obsessed with Yvette. One night, he tried breaking into her home. Things went badly whenever he saw her.
MICHAEL HAYNESWORTH, COUSIN OF YVETTE CADE: Threats of violence and acts of violence.
JACKSON: He was poking her with a knife. He took a hammer to her legs. And those are two occasions that, you know, family members relayed to me.
CARROLL: Cade got an order of protection from Judge Richard Palumbo. But Hargrave asked the judge to lift it. When Cade went back to Judge Palumbo to tell him Hargrave was still harassing and abusing her, her family says, the judge was rude and ignored her desperate pleas for help.
HAYNESWORTH: Nothing she said mattered to Judge Palumbo. She was trying to plead her case. She let it be known that she was in fear of her case.
What you are about to hear is a part of a recording from court that day. Listen to what Judge Palumbo tells Cade after she says Hargrave is still threatening her.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
YVETTE CADE, VICTIM: He's still contacting me. He's intimidating my daughter. And he's vandalizing other people's properties. I want an immediate absolute divorce.
JUDGE RICHARD PALUMBO, DISTRICT COURT OF MARYLAND: Well, I would like to be six 6'5'', but that's not what we do here. You got to go divorce court to do that.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
HAYNESWORTH: He didn't listen to her at all. And, again, here is a young lady who was pleading for her life.
CARROLL: And the family says Judge Palumbo's comments didn't stop there.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
Y. CADE: He was trying to force me to go to marriage counseling.
PALUMBO: It might not be a bad idea, if you want to save the marriage.
Y. CADE: I don't want to, because...
PALUMBO: Then you're in the wrong place. Get a lawyer and go to divorce court.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
HAYNESWORTH: He wanted to go through marriage counseling. It didn't matter that he would beat the crap out of her.
CARROLL: From her hospital bed, Cade said: "He treated me less than human, like an annoyance. He wanted to get on to the next docket and was not interested in helping me. He was annoyed that I was back in front of him again."
Despite the insults, Judge Palumbo promised to keep the protective order in place. And that should have given Yvette Cade a small measure of comfort. But a copy of the docket shows Judge Palumbo actually approved lifting the protection order. Last month, Hargrave walked into this T-Mobile store, where he found Cade walking at the counter. In front of several customers, he doused his wife with gasoline and set her on fire.
Hargrave is charged with attempted murder. Cade's burns cover 60 percent of her body -- every move a struggle.
HAYNESWORTH: She wanted to show me that she can raise her hand. And that was an accomplishment.
CARROLL: Judge Palumbo didn't return calls for an interview. His attorney says Palumbo intended to keep the protective in order place -- the dismissal, a clerical error. But Palumbo's friend and fellow judge, Vincent Femia, says, even if that's the case, Palumbo still shares the blame.
JUDGE VINCENT FEMIA, DISTRICT COURT OF MARYLAND: You want to tell me it's a clerk's mistake? Judges are responsible for their own docket entries. It's that simple.
CARROLL: Judge Palumbo has been reassigned to administrative duty. Cade's family says that's not enough.
HAYNESWORTH: He should willingly step down, but that -- that expresses character. He -- he has shown none.
CARROLL: As far Cade, her mother says she keeps her focused on surviving. She has at least a dozen more operations ahead of her.
JOYCE CADE, MOTHER OF YVETTE CADE: We just have to be a strong family and make sure that my daughter and granddaughter get all the support that they need.
CARROLL: They feel that's all they can do, knowing that the system put into place to protect has failed.
ZAHN: That was Jason Carroll. Yvette's family hopes her story will force reform and make judges more accountable. And they tell us her latest surgery was successful. And she's starting to talk with investigators about the day of the attack.
Still ahead tonight, you see his book everywhere. You may even have a copy. Well, tonight, a best-selling author is coming under new fire.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Ted Rowlands on Hollywood Boulevard. Lovable, furry Elmo has been accused of fleecing money from foreign tourists. We will have that story coming up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm innocent. Innocent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Now back to the story we told you about at the top of the hour.
Right now, an intense manhunt is under way for an escaped Texas killer. And the question tonight is, how did he pull off his escape, changing from a jail jumpsuit to civilian clothes and flashing a fake I.D. and getting past four jail workers, literally walking out of jail?
Joining me now from Houston, Harris County Sheriff's Department spokesman Lieutenant John Martin.
Thanks so much for joining us, sir.
MARTIN: Thank you.
ZAHN: Who blew it here?
MARTIN: What we're seeing are a series of mistakes on the part of our personnel. Unfortunately, there were a number of places where this could have been prevented. And, obviously, that didn't happen.
ZAHN: Why do you think that didn't happen? Is it possible that Mr. Thompson was getting help from the inside?
MARTIN: No, that's not necessarily the case.
But there were a number of places where our personnel could have stopped this, simply by following the procedures that we have in place. And, again, it's obvious that that did not happen.
ZAHN: Can you explain to us what one of those procedures might have been that would stop this man from walking out of jail?
MARTIN: Well, in short, we have somebody who is telling our deputies that he's with the attorney general's office, that he's there conducting an investigation.
There was some question as to the veracity of his claims. In fact, one of the deputies questioned him why he didn't have a security tag for this particular facility. But, ultimately, what happened was, the deputy took him from the secured area of the building out into the front lobby while they were trying to verify that story, when, simply, they could have just kept him in the secure area while they were verifying his story.
ZAHN: Do you suspect you are going to have to fire people because of what went wrong here? MARTIN: What I can tell you, we have an extensive investigation going on. We have several members of our Internal Affairs Division. And they are looking into all of the lapses that took place. They are going to be questioning all the personnel that came into contact with inmate Thompson.
They will be contacting the inmates that may have may have -- have information about this, also. And, you know, at the end of the -- the investigative process, that will be determined. But, right now, I just really can't say.
ZAHN: Can you confirm tonight whether Mr. Thompson escaped on foot, or did he get away by car?
Unfortunately, we have lost Lieutenant John Martin -- but so many questions raised by this story.
The latest thing that I read suggested that authorities have checked out some of the vehicles owned by immediate family members of this man, and those all seem to check out. So, there's no indication he stole any of their cars. But there, once again, is a massive manhunt under way in Houston for this man. Although they don't believe he is armed, he is considered extremely dangerous. This is a man who, in prison, actually drew up a hit list of -- of people that he would like to kill once he got out of prison.
And, unfortunately, some of the names included family members of the two people that he was sitting in prison for killing.
So, we're going to hope to -- to get to a friend of one of those victims in just a short bit.
But we're going to take a short break. And we will be right back.
ZAHN: Tonight, we're a little conflicted about reporting how we should feel about this, that Elmo, every little kid's friend, is a free man. You see, the fact is, he still has to face his day in court after being caught up in a police sting in Hollywood, a sting aimed at some of your favorite superheroes and celebrities.
Here's Ted Rowlands.
HARPER (singing): If you're happy and you know it, clap your hands.
ROWLANDS (voice-over): Two weeks after Elmo's world was rocked, he is back out on bail, working Hollywood Boulevard.
DONN HARPER, "ELMO" (singing): If you're happy and you know it, stamp your feet. ROWLANDS: Elmo, whose real name is Donn Harper, was handcuffed, his head on the hood of a squad car. Along with Mr. Incredible, Elmo was arrested and taken away for something called aggressive begging. They were nabbed as part of an undercover sting operation.
CAPT. RON SANCHEZ, LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT: We have had an extensive amount of complaints from people visiting Hollywood that they have been harassed and the victims of aggressive panhandling of -- of really aggressive begging, that's reached almost points of the victims feeling like they are -- they are almost robbed.
ROWLANDS: Harper and dozens of other impersonators dressed up as superheroes and movie stars park themselves along Hollywood's Walk of Fame, making cash by posing with tourists.
HARPER: Elmo is not out there snatching purses or robbing people or anything bad like that. All he's guilty of is loving people and trying to communicate with some foreign tourists.
ROWLANDS: While Elmo and Mr. Incredible are getting a lot of support...
UNIDENTIFIED MALES: Innocent. Innocent. Innocent.
ROWLANDS: ... James Kurka, who says he has been working on Hollywood Boulevard and watching the characters for more than 10 years, says some of them do have a dark side.
JAMES KURKA, TICKET PROMOTER: They are just a huge public nuisance. And for every nice one, like Elmo, there's two that are rotten.
ROWLANDS: For example, according to the other characters, the James Brown impersonator has issues, as does Elvis, who seemed nice enough when we saw him.
ROWLANDS: But was very upset, creating a spectacle in this home video.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have got to go.
ROWLANDS: Catwoman admits that some characters can go a little crazy, but says, that happens at every workplace.
KATRINA JONES, "CATWOMAN": And if Superman has a problem or whatever, if Batman has got issues, likes to fight, we -- I have got things. You know what I'm saying? But the point is, we are -- we're a family, whether people like it or not.
ROWLANDS: We sent a producer out posing as a tourist after the Elmo arrest, and characters from Chewbacca to Elton John, were on their best behavior.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do accept small tips. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't have anything on me. Sorry.
ROWLANDS: And tourists we talked to said they didn't mind paying a buck or two for a photograph.
DAVID KEMP, TOURIST: We got a photograph out of it for the family. So, it's OK by me.
ROWLANDS: While some characters are upset that police are taking the time to crack down, the impersonators who play Wonder Woman and Spider-Man say something needs to be done.
DANA, "WONDER WOMAN": Characters are soliciting. I mean, they are out here just running wild. It's a freak show, you know?
HARPER (singing): It's Elmo's world.
ROWLANDS: Elmo is free on $100 bail. He says a lawyer is helping him with his legal troubles. Police, meanwhile, say, until the complaints stop, they will continue to keep a close eye on the big red Muppet and his friends.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): That's Elmo's world.
ZAHN: Ted Rowlands reporting.
Elmo, also known as Donn Harper, as was explained a little bit earlier on, is scheduled to be in court to face those charges next week.
Tonight, there are new allegations against a best-selling author -- not that he's any stranger to controversy. I will ask Kevin Trudeau to defend his book, explain his past, and touch on some of the charges he was just slammed with by a consumer board here in the state of New York today.
But, next, would you let your daughter go around in these raunchy T-shirts? -- coming up, some teenagers who took on a major retailer and just found out they have something to celebrate.
ZAHN: Tonight, as we speak, some teenage girls near Pittsburgh are celebrating a victory they just won hours ago against a corporate giant. Abercrombie & Fitch has decided to pull two controversial T- shirts out of its stores, T-shirts the girls say are demeaning to women. In a moment, I will speak to two of those girls -- but, first, some background from Allan Chernoff.
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Is the shirt funny or demeaning?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is ridiculous.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's repulsive. That's sexist, I think.
CHERNOFF: Some Pennsylvania high school students are so offended by the new line of Abercrombie Fitch T-shirts, they are organizing a female boycott of the chain, a girlcott, they are calling it.
EMMA BLACKMAN-MATHIC, GIRLCOTT ORGANIZER: These T-shirts are absolutely degrading to ourselves and other women around us.
CHERNOFF: Abercrombie & Fitch said it had no one available for an on-camera interview. Instead, the company gave CNN a statement: "Our clothing appeals to a wide variety of customers. These particular T- shirts have been very popular among adult women to whom they are marketed," though some adults we spoke with said they wouldn't wear the shirts.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think they have a sense of humor. I wouldn't wear them. I wouldn't want my kids wearing them.
CHERNOFF (on camera): Abercrombie calls these attitude T-shirts. And attitude does not come cheap. They cost $25 a piece.
"I had a nightmare I was a brunette."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I mean, I completely don't agree with that at all.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that's perfect. I really want that one. I think that's great.
CHERNOFF: Now, you know, there are a bunch of high school girls who are actually calling for a girlcott of Abercrombie, because of these shirts.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Crazy. It's crazy. It's just a bit of fun.
CHERNOFF (voice-over): For Abercrombie, which markets clothing by featuring models who barely wear any, it's a perfect mix of profitable fashion and image building. The company's past controversies include catalogs of partially undressed women and bare- bottomed guys, and thong underwear for young girls.
CHERNOFF (on camera): "Do I make you look fat?"
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wouldn't buy that.
CHERNOFF: But you are laughing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's funny.
CHERNOFF: It's funny. But would you want your daughter to wear it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. CHERNOFF (voice-over): Of course, sex and controversy sell in America. The students behind the protest say they recognize they are helping to draw attention to Abercrombie Fitch. But say their principles are more important than the company's profits.
Allan Chernoff, CNN, New York.
ZAHN: And, joining me now, two of the Pittsburgh area young women who are behind the battle against Abercrombie & Fitch, 16-year- old Yagmur Muftuoglu and 14-year-old Elizabeth Clark. And with me from Chicago tonight, Heather Arnet, executive director of the Women and Girls Foundation, which is sponsoring Allegheny County Girls as Grantmakers, the young philanthropy organization the girls belong to.
Good to see all three of you.
ZAHN: First of all, Elizabeth, it seems you have won a partial victory. Abercrombie will pull several of its T-shirts. What do you think that should mean to the public?
ELIZABETH CLARK, PROTESTER AGAINST ABERCROMBIE & FITCH: I think that's really exciting to a lot of people. I think society is starting maybe to see girls as more smart and less stupid, like the T- shirts are having us. And it's also showing that just a group of 23 teenage girls can make a difference in society
ZAHN: But, Yagmur, you still have some work to do, though, right, because Abercrombie & Fitch is not removing all of the T-shirts that you would like to see taken out of the stores.
YAGMUR MUFTUOGLU, PROTESTER AGAINST ABERCROMBIE & FITCH: Right. But we're in the process. We're going to begin amicable negotiations with Abercrombie & Fitch very shortly.
ZAHN: Elizabeth, I'm going to put up on the screen a couple more of these T-shirts.
You -- you saw a very short shot of this one, "Anatomy Tutor." The other one, which is the thing I think you found most objectionable, is this one, who says, who needs brains when you have these.
Help everybody understand how you felt objectified by this and how insulting this was for you. And the rest of the young women who have mounted this campaign.
CLARK: Women have worked so hard in the past to help get women the vote and equal opportunity and these T-shirts are really just bringing us back, talking about how girls are stupid, putting blondes against brunettes, talking about how being sexy is more important than academics. I think this is just really wrong and it's extremely offensive. ZAHN: Heather I understand that Abercrombie & Fitch says it plans to meet with some of these young women who mounted this campaign. Have they told you when and have they indicated to you that they'll pull the rest of these T-shirts off the shelves? That these young women have called attention to?
HEATHER ARNET, THE WOMEN & GIRLS FOUNDATION: Well, the meeting is really key. It's been very exciting to watch these girls really leverage their economic power as a majority of the consumer base for Abercrombie & Fitch, to really do some social change.
What's going to happen now, we're very excited, of course, as they are pulling these incredibly offensive shirts that they recognize the girls message. But what's even more exciting is that they've invited this group of girls to come to their corporate headquarters in Ohio and to talk about how the company moving forward can think about these issues in a larger framework.
And also work with the girls to maybe think about some empowering messages and how those could be used in their products moving forward.
ZAHN: Elizabeth probably got it best when she said a little bit earlier on, that this certainly shows the power that 23 young women can have when it comes to taking on corporate America.
ZAHN: Yagmur, Elizabeth, Heather, thank you all. Appreciate your time.
And if you look at any bookstore window lately, you've probably seen Kevin Trudeau's book about natural cures. Doctors say it's a waste of money. What does he say?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN TRUDEAU, AUTHOR: The whole book is about exposing the medical business for what it is. Fraud.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: A controversial author fires back at his critics. But, he's also coming under new fire tonight from some very unhappy customers.
And a little bit later on, have you noticed something odd about those newlyweds who are touring the country right now? Why aren't they walking together?
Our Jeannie Moos investigates.
ZAHN: I want you to hear a new warning about one of the most familiar faces on late-night TV infomercials. Kevin Trudeau is a convicted felon and has no medical training, yet he has sold millions of copies of his self-help book. Tonight New York's Consumer Protection Board says Trudeau is selling customers' names without their permission to tele-marketers and junk mail companies.
The Consumer Protection Board also say it's received complaints that customers are charged unexpected fees and have trouble getting refunds. Well, before this latest warning, I had an in-depth interview with Mr. Trudeau about his infomercial empire and the scathing criticism he's received from some medical professionals.
ZAHN (voice-over): If you've ever been up late at night channel surfing, chances are, you know Kevin Trudeau.
TRUDEAU: This is the book we're talking about, Natural Cures, they don't want you to know about.
ZAHN: The infomercial for his natural cures book is one of the most frequently run in the country.
TRUDEAU: If you have acid reflux, blood clots, varicose veins, asthma, arthritis, migraine headaches, pain of any kind, insomnia, any type of disease, you need to pay attention because there are natural cures for virtually every disease out there.
ZAHN: So far, natural cures has sold at least three million copies, outsold only by the latest Harry Potter book. Natural Cures has been the best selling advice book for weeks. Remarkable for someone who isn't an author, a doctor or even a scientist.
I sat down with Kevin and asked, why, despite his book's success, the vast majority of medical professionals seem to view him as a quack.
TRUDEAU: Of course medical doctors are going to say they don't believe in what I'm doing because the whole book is about exposing the medical business for what it is. Fraud.
ZAHN: Fraud is something Kevin Trudeau knows about first hand. In 1991, he served a two-year prison term for credit card fraud. He's also had several run-ins with the Federal Trade Commission for years over false claims.
In 2003, he was fined $2 million over claims made for his coral calcium supreme. Trudeau was banned from selling products in infomercials and banned from selling health products in any format at all. But his constitutional right to free speech allows him to use infomercials to sell his book and newsletter.
ZAHN (on camera): You're the only person ever to have been banned from selling a product by the FTC. You have absolutely no medical training, you are a convicted felon. Why should anyone listen to what you have to say about health matters? TRUDEAU: Why should anyone listen to a medical doctor about health?
ZAHN: One would assume they have training that would reinforce what they are advising their patients to do.
TRUDEAU: You would assume that. These are the same experts who told us to use Vioxx that killed 150,000 people. These are the same people that kill 900,000 people a year.
ZAHN (voice-over): Claims that can't be substantiated.
ZAHN (on camera): Kevin, what I'd like to do now is run through some of the illnesses you talk about in your book and what you think are cures for them.
Arthritis. You say caused by heavy metal toxicity among some of the ways you think to cure it are parasite cleanser, crocodile protein peptide, removal of all dental metal in your mouth.
So what do you say to the doctors who say, don't even think about this stuff. Crocodile protein peptide is a joke and don't think about taking the fillings out of your mouth because it's going to make no difference.
TRUDEAU: I know, doctors say that all the time. You know what happens? The doctors say that, the guy does it and he goes, all my symptoms went away. And the doctor says, well, one had nothing to do with the other.
ZAHN (voice-over): In chapter six, called how to never get sick again, Trudeau lists over 150 steps to take. Some are good common sense. Drink eight glasses of water. Go for a walk every day. Stop smoking.
Others, like staying away from microwaves, wearing white, or sleeping on a magnetic mattress pad are more controversial.
And then, there are those that physicians say could actually be dangerous.
ZAHN (on camera): David Johnson, vice president of the American College of Gastroentrology. He notes that there is no evidence to support many of the book's claims. He says some of Trudeau's suggestions could actually be harmful.
TRUDEAU: Such as?
ZAHN: Digestive enzymes. He says, quote, these enzymes are very caustic and could burn the esophagus.
ZAHN: And that they're typically only prescribed for people with pancreatic problems.
TRUDEAU: That's a doctor giving his opinion. Now, is that a fact or his opinion?
ZAHN: This is his opinion.
TRUDEAU: Does it say...
ZAHN: And what you write in your book is your opinion.
TRUDEAU: Correct, and that's the point. Should people have the option of reviewing opinions? First off, there's over 900 studies in the book that's listed. Under the chapter that says still not convinced, I list over three dozen books. And each one of those books lists virtually hundreds of studies that back up everything that's said in there.
ZAHN: And one of the things you recommend is getting 15 colonics in 30 days. According to this same Dr. Johnson, there is no medical reason to have even one of these procedures, which typically involve purging the bowels with enemas, let alone 15 in one month.
TRUDEAU: Horror, I know.
ZAHN: He says, quote, all that purging could lead to dehydration or electrolyte imbalances, which can disturb heart rhythms. True or false?
TRUDEAU: It's false, that's his opinion.
ZAHN: Ironically, Trudeau says it's his lack of medical training that allows him to reveal these natural cures. Cures some readers say aren't actually in the book.
But, Kevin, even you have to concede, you haven't won a legion of fans. Let me read to you something a reader, Christina Miller (ph) had to say about your book.
She contacted the FTC to say, quote, I recently purchased the book and feel like the whole thing is a huge scam. The book has vague information urging the reader to join the Web site, for a fee, for specific information.
However, when you join the Web site, after you give your credit card info. And your order is processed, then you get the disclaimer stating brand names cannot be mentioned, as promised. Also, the things that are promised upon joining are not available.
TRUDEAU: One person.
ZAHN: Well, I got a whole bunch of them.
Respond specifically to what Christina Miller is saying.
TRUDEAU: Let's not mislead the public, Paula. Don't mislead the public. Three million people bought this book. The majority, overwhelming majority of people that read my book are writing me letters by the tens of the thousands thanking me. ZAHN: What you are saying I'm sure is true, but there are enough of these letters that we've been given copies of it. I just want you to respond to the specific criticism that these people feel hoodwinked, that once they pay a fee to get on the Web site, they don't feel that the information that you promise in the book is there for the taking.
TRUDEAU: How do you respond to the criticisms of somebody who goes to the movies, sees an Academy Award winning picture and says, unwatchable. How do you respond to that?
ZAHN: But it's not a question of people saying that they don't like what they read. They don't think the information you've promised in the book is there.
TRUDEAU: No, you are misleading people.
The majority of people, Paula, believe that the information I promise is in the book.
ZAHN: On the Internet bookseller, Amazon.com, Natural Cures averages 2.5 stars out of five in reader reviews.
With some readers satisfied, others clearly not.
Kevin, one of the things I'm struck by in our conversation is the number of times you've mentioned the word, options, to consider. Yet the title of your book is Natural Cures. There's a disconnect between these two.
TRUDEAU: I don't think so. I think the reason I called the book Natural Cures, they don't want you to know about, is the book could be titled, there are natural cures out there...
ZAHN: There are options.
TRUDEAU: There are options. There are things to consider that I believe are natural cures, that I believe that the government, the FTC, the FDA and the drug companies don't want people to know about for profit reasons. And so, the whole book is about...
ZAHN: But you explicitly state natural cures.
TRUDEAU: There are natural cures in the book, categorically.
ZAHN: But not that they're options.
TRUDEAU: In my opinion, they are natural cures. In my opinion, they are categorically natural cures. And by the results of the tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people that are sending me the letters telling me how they were cured by doing what I say in the book, it seems to be working.
ZAHN: On the first page of his book, Trudeau says he's using all of the profits to educate people about natural health. On page 125, he revises that to, most of the profits. Then there's that subscription-based Web site. An infomercial monitoring system estimates Trudeau spends as much as $1 million a week on paid programming airing on national cable and probably takes in many times that.
Kevin, you talked an awful lot about the greed that you think drives the drug industry. It has been reported that you run a $2 billion industry. Aren't you motivated by money?
TRUDEAU: I was motivated by money a lot, yes. Absolutely. And making money as I say in the book is not a four-letter word. But, when you make money like Ford Motor Company did with the exploding Pinto and you kill people? I think it's bad.
So making money is not, making money is not bad. But making money at the expense of people's lives, I think, is a terrible thing.
ZAHN: But what about some of the things you offer in your book that these medical doctors think are exaggerated and offer false hope?
TRUDEAU: The drug companies create false hope. My book is the real hope.
ZAHN: And we want to stress again that Trudeau's book is based only on his opinions. He is not a doctor, a scientist or a medical expert. He is a salesman with no medical training to speak of. And tonight, under fire from a state board in New York.
Tonight, our royal visitors Charles and Camilla are on their way to San Francisco after stopping off in New Orleans. But no matter where they go, have you noticed who goes first?
Jeanne Moos is getting ready for appropriately enough, a follow- up.
ZAHN: I want to return now to that dragnet over Houston tonight, as police search for a death row escapee.
Police say Charles Thompson just walked out of jail yesterday. Wearing civilian clothes and flashing a fake I.D., getting past four jail workers.
Fear is in the air tonight in the Houston area. Prosecutors say, while Thompson was in jail, he made a hit list targeting the family of one of the two people he murdered. Both families are in hiding tonight, but joining me now is someone who has been in touch with both of them.
Lance Potter was a good friend of one of the victims. Thanks so much for joining us tonight. Can you tell us how Daryn (ph) and Denise's family are reacting to this news? LANCE POTTER, FRIEND OF MURDER VICTIM: Well, everybody is still in shock. We thought everything was over with and done on Friday. The healing was going to begin again, and I think it's just hard for everybody to accept that this is really happening.
ZAHN: We just talked about that hit list that Mr. Johnson or, excuse me, Thompson, made in jail. Are these relatives fearing for their lives tonight?
POTTER: Oh, definitely, yes, definitely. I spoke with several of the relatives that were actually on the hit list earlier today, and they were in shock and also fearful for their lives.
So they are looking for police protection. I believe they are getting police protection, and not staying at their house tonight. That's for sure.
ZAHN: Did they share with you what investigators told them to do? Obviously, investigators have got to be very concerned about this.
POTTER: From what I understand, yes ma'am.
ZAHN: And I guess I'm just getting confirmed that the mother of one of the victims is now in a shelter tonight, as you just explained, away from her home. Who do you think is responsible for letting Charles Thompson simply walk out of jail?
POTTER: That's a good question, and hopefully they'll get the answer to it so something like this doesn't happen again. Just seems like a freak event that somehow fell into his lap. I don't understand how it happened, but hopefully, it won't happen again, and hopefully he'll get in custody -- be in custody very soon.
ZAHN: Lance, it is so hard for any of us to understand the sense of fear in Houston tonight. You've just done a very good job of describing how the family members of this escapee's victims are feeling. But what about the rest of the community? What are people saying?
POTTER: Well, of course, people are afraid, because this is a known killer who is on the loose, who is desperate. Will he, you know, will he commit crimes in the future? Twenty-four people said that there is a good possibility that he will harm people. So there's a lot of fear. Hopefully, he'll be caught very soon.
ZAHN: Well, Lance, we appreciate your joining us tonight. Best of luck to you. And I want to share with our audience something that just crossed the wires right now. The U.S. marshals is confirming that it is now offering a $10,000 reward for the capture of this man, and apparently the department has received a number of significant leads, none of which can be shared with the public. But the hunt at this hour involves both police and sheriff's departments, the U.S. Marshal Service and the Gulf Coast Violent Offenders Task Force. So once again, Houston, dead center in the middle of a huge dragnet tonight. And as more details become available, we'll share them with you.
In the meantime, we're going to take a short break. You have heard of the royal wave. You know that stiff one that kind of looks like a Rose Bowl wave. But did you know there is a royal walk? Jeanne Moos has been watching and will show us how it's done.
Right now, though, eight minutes before the hour, time to check in with Erica Hill with the HEADLINE NEWS business break.
ZAHN: Coming up, a bit of royal protocol you may never even heard of.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEBORAH STROBER, CO-AUTHOR, "THE MONARCHY": It's the idea that the monarch is the focus of everything, and everybody else is secondary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Oh, yeah? Well, get ready to put your best foot forward. Jeanne Moos will show us how to walk like a royal.
ZAHN: At this moment, Prince Charles and Camilla are on their way to San Francisco, the last stop in their five-day tour of the U.S.. And all week long, our Jeanne Moos has been making very careful note of the details of royal body language.
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Some women stand by their man, and some stand behind him. When you see Prince Charles, you always know where to find Camilla -- walking a few steps behind, always behind. The prince is always first out of the limo, leaving Camilla behind.
He's the first out the door. He's the first in the door. Even when he was with Princess Diana.
(on camera): You know, he gets out of the car first.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe he smells.
MOOS (voice-over): What stinks is protocol.
STROBER: There is protocol, and it's several paces. Yes, I think it's four paces behind him.
MOOS: Deborah Strober is co-author of "The Monarchy."
STROBER: It's the idea that the monarch is the focus of everything, and everybody else is secondary. MOOS: Including Camilla, although at one Washington event she went first, since she was the featured speaker in a gathering on osteoporosis.
Maybe it doesn't pay to precede the prince. Escort mistook a wall of glass for the entrance door.
But Camilla isn't the only one who tends to bring up the rear.
(on camera): In your relationship, who walks first when you have to go single file?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He does.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's just because I'm eager.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Half the time he's a half a block ahead of me. Unless I'm grabbing his arm.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He walks so fast. And he forgets that I have heels on.
MOOS (voice-over): The royal couple have also taken flack for not touching more. "Untouched Duchess in Restricted Heir Space," said "The New York Post."
It's OK for President Bush to give Laura a hand, but Camilla was on her own.
One exception was the announcement of Prince Charles' engagement to Diana, and he did offer an arm as Camilla descended a levee in New Orleans.
Mrs. Bush did touch the prince, or so the photo in a British tabloid, "The Sun," would have you believe. "That's my tush, Mrs. Bush!" Though closer inspection of the videotape shows that the prince's tush escaped the brush by Mrs. Bush.
Kids serenading the royal couple didn't realize how ironic their words were, as they sang the Whitney Houston song, "Never to Walk in Anyone's Shadow."
(on camera): In your relationship, assuming there is one or has been one, or whatever, who walks first?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My dog.
MOOS (voice-over): And, no, his dog's not a King Charles Spaniel.
ZAHN: Oh, Jeanne. Jeanne Moos reporting for us tonight.
That wraps it up for all of us tonight. I hope you'll join me again this weekend for an encore presentation of our special hour on eating disorders, "Walking the Thin Line." It airs at 2:00 p.m. Eastern, and again at 5:00 p.m. Eastern on Sunday right here on CNN.
We hope you have a really nice weekend. We'll be back same time, same place Monday night. Until then, "LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now. Good night.
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