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American Morning

Death Row Escapee Captured; Marine's Tales of Iraq Atrocities Debunked; Air Travel Survey

Aired November 07, 2005 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: You know, I was just commenting. I am such a lucky guy. Fabulous looking babes beside me here. You guys look great this morning.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: You're very kind, Miles.

O'BRIEN: You look great, both of you. It's good to have you here.

WALLACE: And you've got a fabulous wife.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: What do you mean kind? He should be saying that to us!

O'BRIEN: I can say that.

WALLACE: OK, Miles, more, more, more!

O'BRIEN: Come on, say thank you very much.

WALLACE: Thank you. We can never take a compliment.

COSTELLO: I can. Keep them coming. Anyway, we're talking to this guy that captured this fugitive, this drunken fugitive. I can't wait to hear from him.

O'BRIEN: Yes, he's with the Marshals, you know. And helped track them down in Shreveport, Louisiana, 200 miles from Houston. Clever escape, not so clever capture. Ripped -- he went to Daiquiri's Unlimited. We wonder if he had just gone to Daiquiri's Limited, maybe he would have been OK, a little less ripped, maybe.

COSTELLO: That's been Miles' theory all morning long.

O'BRIEN: It was the wrong liquor store.

WALLACE: And the wrong place to go.

COSTELLO: Well, think about it. He does this clever escape and then he ends up on a bicycle in front of a liquor store, drunk, and they just take him without incident. Very strange.

WALLACE: Who says -- people often say criminals...

COSTELLO: Not so smart.

WALLACE: ... not very smart.

COSTELLO: What do you got?

(NEWSBREAK)

O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the drunk fugitive -- or hungover fugitive -- this morning, who was captured and unceremoniously brought in. He was told to be -- Charles Victor Thompson is his name. He was told to be -- or said to be, as they say, not in a position where he was able to be interviewed when he was finally arrested at a pay phone at a liquor store beside a bicycle that he had been riding.

Mickey Rellin is a deputy U.S. marshal who was involved in that arrest in Shreveport. Mickey, good to have you with us. Tell us how this arrest went down.

MICKEY RELLIN, DEPUTY U.S. MARSHAL: Aloha. Well, we got information from our deputies down in Houston that the subject was up here in Shreveport out of -- in a general area. I called our local officers here from the task force. We spread out and spanned out, started looking for him. We found a suspect that looked like him. We confirmed his identity. We set up an arrest team. And as you say, that was history.

O'BRIEN: I assume the people that are standing there beside you, that's the rest of the team there?

RELLIN: Yes, it is.

O'BRIEN: All right, all right. Well, congratulations to them. I appreciate you acknowledging the whole team. As you converged on him, the I.D. was matched and it was quite obvious who it was?

RELLIN: Yes. It was obvious who he was, even before we approached him. But when we did approach him and he was restrained, I did ask him for his identity. He admitted that he was Charles and that we knew we were looking for him.

O'BRIEN: That was it. You said, who are you? And he said you know who I am, or did he go farther than that?

RELLIN: Yes. I had asked him three times, I asked him who are you. No answer. Who are you? No answer. Who are you? I then, you know, made sure that he could see my badge and my credentials. And he said are you with the U.S. Marshal's Fugitive Task Force? And I looked at him and said, what do you think? And he said, then you know who I am. And I said, well, who are you? And then he said yes, I'm Charles. I know you're looking for me.

O'BRIEN: Just how drunk was he?

RELLIN: Well, I imagine he was a little bit more drunk before we got there, because we kind of put a little scare in him on our approach.

O'BRIEN: Sobered up a little bit when he saw you? RELLIN: Just a very little, yes.

O'BRIEN: Well, the U.S. Marshals would have a way of doing that. And I don't want to make light of this. This is a man who was on death row in Texas and...

RELLIN: Yes, he was.

O'BRIEN: But there is an odd twist to this, that someone as obviously clever as this, criminally clever, to worm his way out of that jail in Houston, would ultimately be caught this way. Does that surprise you?

RELLIN: No, not at all. That's who they are. They just sometimes let their guard down and we never give up.

O'BRIEN: You never give up, that's an important thing. He had to have some help, don't you think? I know he didn't ride his bike 200 miles.

RELLIN: Well...

O'BRIEN: How did he get to where he is? Do you have anything that you can help us piece together the story here?

RELLIN: Not as of yet. We're still conducting that investigation.

O'BRIEN: All right. Mickey Rellin, congratulations. Good arrest. Pull back there. We'll show the team one more time, because they deserve a little bit of credit.

RELLIN: There they are.

O'BRIEN: You and the team. There you go. They've pulled back. All right, there they are. Everybody is safe and sound. And we're glad he's back behind bars. And we hope that in Shreveport and wherever he ends up, they're watching him closely. Mickey Rellin with the U.S. Marshal's office. Good job. They always get their man.

RELLIN: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Or woman. Whatever it takes.

COSTELLO: On this case, we're glad.

Former Marine Staff Sergeant Jimmy Massey has published a book in France called, "Kill Kill Kill." It accuses U.S. soldiers of atrocities in Iraq, including the killing of civilian men, women, and children.

Our next guest says Massey is lying and he can prove it. Joining us now is "St. Louis Post" dispatch writer Ron Harris. He was embedded with Jimmy Massey's unit in Iraq. Welcome, Ron.

RON HARRIS, "ST. LOUIS POST": Thank you. COSTELLO: You know, if this guy is lying, that's just vile. Because he's saying some vile things about our men and women over in Iraq.

HARRIS: Yes, that's very true. I mean, he is claiming that marines intentionally killed civilians, that he intentionally killed civilians. And at times, he claims that they intentionally killed civilians based on orders from the superiors. And the fact is, it just isn't true.

COSTELLO: OK, let's get to specifics now. He claimed, as you said, that Marines fired on and killed peaceful Iraqi protesters and were sometimes ordered by higher-ups to do that. How can you disprove that?

HARRIS: Well, two or three things. Number one, I was there in Iraq when -- I was in Baghdad when we initially pulled in. I was with Massey's unit. I was embedded with the unit, as were three other -- four other journalists, actually. And we went to that prison and I was there the next morning.

And not only did I not see any protesters, nobody saw any protesters. And not for weeks. Because during that time, it was a very, very dangerous period. It was basically four kinds of Iraqis. There were Iraqis who were happy to see the marines. There were Iraqis who were shooting at the marines and me, too, and the other journalists. There were Iraqis who were looting and that was probably what we saw most of. And there were finally Iraqis staying at home because they were afraid.

COSTELLO: Yes, but Ron, if there was completely untrue, I mean, this guy has made it into pretty big publications like "Vanity Fair." He's written a book that's bee published in France.

HARRIS: Oh, it's been published everywhere. Nobody -- in not one publication or not one broadcast, is there any corroboration. It's just Jimmy Massey's story. Nobody ever called a journalists who were covering him. Nobody ever interviewed the marines, which I did all of. Nobody ever checked his story. They don't even have another source that says on background or another source who didn't want to be quoted. It's just Jimmy Massey's story.

COSTELLO: Well, let's face it -- let's say these stories were true. Would the marines -- wouldn't be forthcoming about that. Oh, yes, we killed innocent Iraqi people. They're not going to admit that.

HARRIS: No, no, no. That's not true. In fact, the marines, we were there embedded with the marines. And the marines did shoot innocent civilians. And we covered that. In fact, covered that -- the photographer with me, Andrew Cartero (ph) shot pictures of innocent civilians who had been accidentally shot by the Marine Corps. We wrote stories and Andy took photographs of a British television crew that was shot and killed by the Marine Corps on the second day of the war. COSTELLO: Well, Ron, let's go to some of those photos. We have one photo that this photographer took, and it shows two women who are bloody. You say this further disproves Jimmy Massey's story. In what way?

HARRIS: In that case, Jimmy Massey claimed that a 4-year-old girl was shot in the head. That was the particular shooting incident. In fact, there were civilian shot in that car by Marines. Nobody died.

Andrew Cartero, again, the photographer for "The Post Dispatch," took those photographs. And as you can see in those pictures, there are people there. Nobody died. I talked to the medic who treated them. And I traveled with him for more than a month, Petty Officer Justin Poviance (ph). He told me nobody died in that incident.

COSTELLO: Well, let's go to one other picture, and this is really gruesome. So I' going to warn people to turn away if you want to see it. But this a tractor trailer. Jimmy Massey says it was filled with women, children and men. What do you say?

HARRIS: We were there. Those are photographs by Andrew Katraro. I saw it. Michael Phillips from "Wall Street Journal" saw it. Robbie Nesbit (ph) from Associated Press saw it. Those were men on a military base who had been killed by U.S. artillery, but there were no women or children in those tractor trailers. Those tractor trailer were used as sort of a makeshift morgue. They were refrigerated trucks, and they had been killed by American bombing. Initially the military thought that they had been killed by Saddam Hussein. They thought maybe it was a war crime.

COSTELLO: OK, I have to ask you this before I have to let you go.

HARRIS: OK.

COSTELLO: Why would this staff sergeant, Jimmy Massey, lie about these things, and say such terrible things about his own comrades?

HARRIS: Well, one of the things that has happened -- number one, Jimmy Massey, I don't know why, but I can just speculate a couple of things. Number one, Jimmy Massey was honorably discharged for post- traumatic stress syndrome. The second thing, Jimmy Massey has profited off of this. He does have a book. He has a Web site in which he sells his story on a CD for a hundred dollars. I think it's called jimmymassey.com. So it's been profitable for Jimmy Massey to keep telling this lie.

COSTELLO: Ron Harris from the "St. Louis Post Dispatch," thank you for joining us this morning.

HARRIS: Thank you.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: Coming up, a new survey from the famous people of Zagat. This time on flying. Which airlines fared the best, and which one came in dead last?

O'BRIEN: Or which is the least bad I think is the better way of putting it?

Plus, a new must-have accessory for you stun gun owners. What will that be? Andy will look at the taser cam in "Minding Your Business." That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Ah, the glamour of flying.

COSTELLO: Glamour?

O'BRIEN: It's so gone!

COSTELLO: Only if you own your own private jet.

O'BRIEN: Yes, that's pretty much it. I got a little plane. I always get to sit on the front row, because otherwise, it doesn't take off. But when I'm flying on other airlines, we won't name them right now, things go a little differently.

You know, Zagat, they rate everything.

COSTELLO: They do.

O'BRIEN: Except anchors, and we're not going to suggest anything on that right now, but one of the things they have done now is rate the airlines. And what a grim tale it is. The latest survey on the state of airline travel not so good.

Tim Zagat.

COSTELLO: It rhymes with cat!

TIM ZAGAT, COFOUNDER, ZAGAT SURVEYS: It doesn't matter, as long as you buy the book!

O'BRIEN: (INAUDIBLE) that I get mess up on. Good to have you, Tim.

Let's, first of all, share with people these outtakes are the best part. Some of the quotes, pithy comments you say from air travelers, survey-responded outtakes. "The uncomfortable served the inedible by the indifferent."

"Economy class is like the Bataan death march with carry-on luggage."

"Challenging log in, difficult ticketing, rude gate agents, wretched food and contortionist seating. What's not to like?"

And finally, my favorite, "This is why the pope kisses the ground every time he deplanes." OK, it's a joke, but it's just amazing to me. You know, we keep talking about the airlines and how they never make any money. Why can't they figure out a simple little thing? We like to be treated like human beings.

ZAGAT: Well, I think you would have seen that, you would of expected that, but most of the major airlines have staff that are in a big fight with their unions, or in a big fight with the airlines. And the airlines are in very bad financial condition so they are cutting down everything that the staff gets, plus everything that the customer gets. So there is really no way to win with the major carriers, given the price structure.

COSTELLO: But that's not the only thing, though. I mean, they pack those seats in there, because the more seats you have, the more seats you can sell on one flight and the more money you make. They don't care about passenger comfort, so to speak, do they?

ZAGAT: Well, I don't want to say what they care about. But the way it works out, 48 percent of the people are complaining about delays and cancellations. Twenty-one percent are complaining about the fact they are cramped and crowded. And 13 percent are complaining about service. And if you ask me, you can complain about all of them all of the time. It's unfortunate, but the airline industry, with a few notable exceptions, a plane -- a company like Jet Blue is really popular. People like it.

O'BRIEN: Yes, because they treat you like a human being.

ZAGAT: They are really nice to you.

O'BRIEN: A little service goes a long way.

ZAGAT: Continental among the majors is the one that has stood out as having better management and being nicer to people than the others.

COSTELLO: Well, what about Southwest...

O'BRIEN: All right, one quick note. You mention those numbers. Real quick, I want to get this one thing in, and then you go. Talking about the food. You know, the food used to be a big complaint. Let's scroll to the next page, because he was already talking about some of those numbers. Food is only two percent now. People have just given up on food, I guess?

ZAGAT: Absolutely. There's either no food on the planes or you don't want to eat what they give you.

O'BRIEN: So you just, you know...

ZAGAT: People really stopped complaining about it because they long ago realized they weren't going to get anything good anyway.

COSTELLO: And you know what makes it worse? People bring their own food on the plane and the smell. O'BRIEN: And they don't share it.

COSTELLO: Well, no, not only that, but I mean, airplane doesn't have the greatest air circulation, so if somebody's eating a hamburger and you smell it to the front of the plane to the back, which makes it worse.

ZAGAT: Well, right now, I'd say that the whole industry is in deep trouble with these few exceptions. And you have to look at the exceptions to say how does JetBlue do it? How does Continental do it? How does Southwest? You mentioned Southwest. Southwest is no pretenses. It's a bus in the air. But they get you there, they're nice to you, and...

COSTELLO: They joke...

ZAGAT: Yes, they joke. And they're not trying to make believe they're being fancy and, I don't know, not any big slogans about how well they treat you.

O'BRIEN: Well, it's obviously no coincidence that the big ones that are in the biggest financial trouble are the ones that don't do well. As you pointed out, it all kind of flows downhill. They're not happy campers there, and it shows in the way they do their work. This is -- ultimately is going to lead to a big shake-up, I would think. Don't you think?

ZAGAT: Well, given the fact that four of the six majors are in bankruptcy now, I would say the shake-up is already full swing. By the way, all of these reviews and ratings are on zagat.com, so if somebody wants to see what people really think about their airlines, it's available.

COSTELLO: I would like to read some more quotes.

ZAGAT: Go ahead.

O'BRIEN: Zagat.com, there you go. You can read some more. There they are if you want to check them out. Tim Zagat is with us and has rated the airlines. It's a grim picture. But thank you for being us.

ZAGAT: Thank you.

COSTELLO: That was a lot of fun, actually.

Coming up, it's a taser cam. A taser cam. The answer to the controversies over stun guns. Andy's "Minding Your Business," next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: A taser cam. The newest way to monitor the use of tasers. With that and a look at the markets, Andy is here "Minding Your Business."

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" COLUMNIST: Does anything with taser make sense?

COSTELLO: No.

SERWER: Well, it's an interesting concept. Part of the problem with these tasers and the controversy is when people get stunned and then knocked out, often, they say there was no reason for the police to have done this. Now, the good folks at the Taser Company have mounted a camera on the taser -- the taser cam, it's called -- which is activated when the stun gun is set off. So it would show what the alleged perpetrator was perpetrating.

You can see there, there's an executive from Taser who is pretending to be a perpetrator. And he's about to get stunned. And you can see he really was threatening this police officer there. You can see that. That's very clear. Now, this camera feature would cost an additional $400, Carol.

COSTELLO: Well, you know, seriously, though, there have been deaths associated with taser guns, and Taser stock has really fallen as a result.

SERWER: Yes, it has. Gotten zapped!

COSTELLO: Yes, so to speak.

SERWER: You knew that was coming. No, it was a high flyer on Wall Street, but now it's gone from what, about $33 down to about $7. And you can see here.

COSTELLO: Wow!

SERWER: Well, you know, this was a big thing. You know, after 9/11, security stocks were very hot. Taser, every police force was going to get one. As it turns out, about 8,000 law enforcement agencies have them, but after awhile, it stopped when were there reports of these deaths.

COSTELLO: So maybe the taser cam will work. I don't know.

SERWER: Yes, maybe it will. Some people say it's a good idea. Do you want to talk about the markets a little bit?

COSTELLO: I do.

SERWER: OK. It's been a good fortnight for stocks. That's two weeks of up news. And especially last week was pretty good as well. What's going on? Well, lower gas prices really have been boosting stocks. Mostly, you can see here, there is last week, which is all green. The Dow was up about 300 points over the past two weeks. And this morning, futures are up as well -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Good. Glad to hear it. Thank you, Andy.

SERWER: You're welcome.

COSTELLO: Miles? O'BRIEN: Thus sayeth the business correspondent, a fortnight.

SERWER: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Very nice.

SERWER: Zarathustra.

O'BRIEN: You know, earlier we were telling you about the New York City Marathon yesterday, here in the Big Apple. Well, in a moment we'll meet some runners from New Orleans. Just because of Katrina and Rita, that did not stop their training and they're ultimate triumph in running the race and successfully completing it. We will check in with some of them and ask them about their ordeal, compounded within an ordeal. Stay with us for more AMERICAN MORNING.

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