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CNN Live At Daybreak

Internet Piracy; Tornado Aftermath; Election Preview; Battle Over Abortion

Aired November 08, 2005 - 06:29   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Joining me now to talk about Internet piracy and illegal downloads is attorney Ari Kaplan, who also teaches Internet law.
Good morning, Ari.

ARI KAPLAN, ATTORNEY: Good morning.

COSTELLO: OK. Let's talk about this case first, because I cannot believe that the Motion Picture Industry is seeking $600,000 from this family.

KAPLAN: Yes, the $600,000 number is a statutory number. You are entitled up to $150,000 per download, and here there were four movies downloaded.

COSTELLO: Well, how good is the case against -- like, the grandfather says, his grandson was on the -- you don't know what your kids are doing on the computer sometimes, especially if you're, you know, the grandfather. And you're not used to using the computer in the first place. So, is it really fair to hold the grandfather liable for what the kid did?

KAPLAN: I mean, fairness -- the issue really is the copyright infringements. It's a strict liability issue. And the grandfather -- I'm not sure of the exact issue there, but the grandfather controlled it.

COSTELLO: Well, he says he didn't know and his grandson didn't know the law.

KAPLAN: That's...

COSTELLO: So, is ignorance a good defense?

KAPLAN: It actually is not. Ignorance in this case is not going to work. I mean, there are things that he could have done in terms of controls. And I think parents tend to be a little more mature these days following recent issues with the recording industry.

So, now the movie industry is following suit. And parents need to really be aware of what's happening with their children.

COSTELLO: OK. So, you say safeguards could have been put into place. Like what?

KAPLAN: Like, there are software programs that monitor what kids are doing on their computer, spending some time with their kids...

COSTELLO: Oh, so you've got an 11 -- you say, oh my gosh, my kid is downloading a movie. I've got to go. I mean, it's just seems....

KAPLAN: Well, I mean, the flipside is that you're subject to a lawsuit. It seems like a hassle that you wouldn't want to deal with right now.

COSTELLO: But shouldn't you go after whoever is putting that on the Internet to download?

KAPLAN: Well, it wasn't clear here if he had downloaded it or uploaded it. And that's a good point. I mean, if you're pulling music down, there are certain issues with respect to copyright. If you're putting music up, especially movies, you can not only be subject to copyright infringement, but you could be subject to anti- circumvention provisions of another law called the Digital Millennium Copyright for breaking the code that protects the movie.

COSTELLO: Wow! That's a mouthful.

KAPLAN: It's a lot, yes.

COSTELLO: It's a lot. OK. So, safeguards. Let's go back to those and parents putting them into place. It says, you can't plead ignorance anymore. So, you can buy some software that will prevent your kids from what? Downloading or uploading anything?

KAPLAN: Yes. It may not even been bought. You know, there are products out there by parent associations that have been dealing with this issue for -- it's been a few years. This litigation is really relatively mature. You heard the Supreme Court have the decision in Grokster in June, and Grokster went out of business.

And so, this is -- it's happening. And I think the best parents can do -- especially with cheap services like iTunes and Napster has a service now. Wal-Mart you can download songs, and you just...

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: And it's cheap.

KAPLAN: Yes. It's really inexpensive relative to the cost of viruses that are going to be put on your computer, ad-ware and now potential lawsuits.

COSTELLO: Yes. Ari Kaplan, thanks for coming in this morning. We appreciate it.

KAPLAN: Thank you.

COSTELLO: In southern Indiana this morning, communities are coping with the aftermath of that deadly tornado. The twister left at least 22 dead as it tore through Kentucky and Indiana before dawn on Sunday.

Let's check in with Ed Lavandera who is live in Evansville.

Good morning, Ed.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

The search and rescue efforts actually will continue into a third day. There is a pond in the mobile home park. That is the location where 18 people were killed by this tornado Sunday morning. And there was the 18th victim found in this pond just on the edge of the mobile home park yesterday.

So, crews are continuing to empty that water out. We're told that that will continue into the better part of this morning.

And also, officials here in the Evansville area plan on announcing when and how residents will be allowed back into this community to sift through their destroyed homes and see what they might be able to salvage. But we're told that the residents won't be allowed -- the earliest they'll be allowed back in will be Wednesday morning.

COSTELLO: How many people have been affected in all, Ed?

LAVANDERA: Well, you know, it cuts across a 20-mile stretch of northern Kentucky and southern Indiana. So, we're talking about the hardest-hit counties were in Vanderburgh and Warrick Counties, which is just right next to Evansville. And officials here were saying they added a couple of other countries that were affected as well.

You know, with this tornado, you know, it would touch down, maybe jump off of the ground for a little while, and then come back down. So, you know, we're talking about different pockets of communities that were affected.

I don't know if I can put a total number on it. But, you know, with hundreds injured and 22 people killed so far, you know it's hundreds, perhaps thousands of people affected.

COSTELLO: You said they were searching the pond. I mean, is there a list where missing are listed? And do you know how many are on that list?

LAVANDERA: The officials here say that they're working. The last count we had was about 20 people missing. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean they believe there are 20 people still stuck in destroyed homes or anything. They believe -- and they're hoping -- that the majority of those people perhaps left the mobile home park area or other areas on their own and just haven't checked in.

So they continue -- you know, Sunday night that number was at 200. They had it down to 20 yesterday. But that is exactly why they're going through the pond.

You know, they hadn't anticipated finding anyone in there. And, of course, that was the hope. But yesterday afternoon that drastically changed. And they'll continue to do that and hoping to get all of those names off that list by sometime today.

COSTELLO: Ed Lavandera live in Evansville, Indiana, this morning. Thank you.

Let's talk politics now. It's an off-year election day on both coasts and places in between. So, here are some of the key races.

People in Virginia will pick a new governor. Polls show a virtual dead heat between Republican Jerry Kilgore and Democrat Lieutenant Governor Tim Kaine.

The governor's race is also tight in New Jersey. Republican Doug Forrester is taking on Democratic Senator Jon Corzine, who is trying to make an unconventional move from Capitol Hill to the statehouse.

A big lead in the Big Apple for Michael Bloomberg. New York City's incumbent Republican mayor is expected to coast to victory over Democrat Fernand Ferrer.

In San Diego, the mayor's race is a whole lot closer. Republican Jerry Sanders is taking on Democrat Donna Frye. Whoever wins will be San Diego's fourth mayor -- fourth mayor in the past year amid a wave of local political scandals.

Voters in Detroit and Atlanta also head to the polls today to choose mayors. And there are important ballot measures being decided in several states from Maine to California.

Out West, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger may face defeat on some of his issues. Among them, a spending cap bill that gives him more power to cut the budget.

In Texas, voters will decide whether to ban gay marriage. The state constitutional amendment is expected to pass.

And in Maine, they're trying to decide whether to eliminate a law that bans discrimination based on sexual orientation. That one is expected to fail.

We were just talking about that tight race for Virginia governor. Republican candidate Jerry Kilgore got some high-profile help last night when President Bush showed up to show his support at a rally in Richmond. Will that kind of thing backfire, though, given the president's recent poll numbers? That's the kind of question we want to get some expert opinion on.

John Mecurio, a senior editor with the "National Journal's," "The Hotline," joins us now from Washington.

Good morning, John.

JOHN MERCURIO, SENIOR EDITOR, "NATIONAL JOURNAL": Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: You heard the president's remarks at that get-out-the- vote rally, right? MERCURIO: Right, right, absolutely. He was very folksy. He was very -- and from what I heard from people who watched the entire speech, it was an impressive show from a man just returning from South America.

COSTELLO: Well, he was praising the candidate for fiscal responsibility. He said that this candidate would further restrict abortion. And this candidate supports the Iraq war. And the Iraq war part I want to center on, because so many people are now -- now have second thoughts about the war, let's say. Was that really the thing to bring up when the race is so close in Virginia?

MERCURIO: It was a very risky move, I think, on the part of the Kilgore campaign. They acknowledge that privately. In fact, that was part of why Jerry Kilgore himself refused to appear with the president just a few weeks ago when Bush was down making a big speech on the war in Norfolk.

But I think at this point, at the very, very last moments of the campaign, you really need to motivate your base. You really need to get out the sort of core Republican constituency. And that's what Bush was there to do at this election eve rally.

And, you know, if you think about it, if Kilgore is able to pull this off, if he's able to win today despite these polls that are showing that Kaine is ahead, it's really going to force a lot of this sort of Beltway punditry about the Bush presidency in disarray. It's going to force us to have to sort of re-assess the president's political appeal outside the Beltway.

COSTELLO: Yes, especially when you consider Bush carried Virginia by what? Nine points in 2004? And I think it was 8 points in the year 2000.

MERCURIO: Right.

COSTELLO: You know, the race in Virginia is quite nasty, too, with the Republican candidate Kilgore coming out against Tim Kaine. Tim Kaine, I guess, is a Catholic...

MERCURIO: Yes.

COSTELLO: ... is against the death penalty.

MERCURIO: Yes.

COSTELLO: And this is the ad that Kilgore put out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tim Kaine says that Adolf Hitler doesn't qualify for the death penalty. This was the worst mass murderer in modern times.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Oh, come on! Adolf Hitler? Why bring him up? And does that help with voters?

MERCURIO: You know, I guess, we'll have to wait and see tonight.

But the polls have shown that since that ad came out, and another ad that Kilgore ran against Tim Kaine on the death penalty, both ads, I think, have really been sort of questionable in terms of a smart political strategy on the part of the Kilgore campaign. A lot of Republicans, both in Washington and in Virginia, acknowledge that it was a risk for him to do that. And at this point, there has been something of a backlash, at least in northern Virginia, which is sort of the key battleground in the state.

COSTELLO: Let's talk about the governor's race in New Jersey, because that's another nasty one.

MERCURIO: Yes.

COSTELLO: I mean, candidates are -- they're both -- they both brought up the sexual history of each other. It's bizarre.

MERCURIO: In ads and publicly, yes, especially -- well, the Forrester campaign came out with an ad last week in which they featured quotes from Jon Corzine's ex-wife, in which she was castigating him for giving up on her and, you know, by extension, giving up on the state of New Jersey.

And, again, you know, the word "backlash" sort of comes to mind. And I think that's what we're sort of watching closely tonight.

What's interesting about the New Jersey race is that there is a sitting governor, an acting governor, who took over for Jim McGreevey when he was forced to step down last year. He's much more popular than either of these candidates, as is Mark Warner in Virginia. It seems like voters almost wish that these elections weren't taking place today, and they could just sort of stick with who they have in office right now.

COSTELLO: It's interesting. Well, it's interesting to see what the voter turnout will be, because I suspect it will be quite light.

MERCURIO: Yes. Well, I think in New Jersey, both parties have done a very good job over the past two or three years, as they have in Virginia, of sort of, you know, narrowing in and really zeroing in on what they call "lazy voters" -- voters who haven't voted, who don't usually vote in these off-year gubernatorial elections. They're really trying to boost turnout for each of their -- for their respective parties.

So, they really -- there really is a very sophisticated GOTV effort on both sides in both states. But you're right. I think the negative tone of both campaigns would certainly depress a motivated voter from turning out.

COSTELLO: Yes. John Mercurio, senior editor of the "National Journal," joining us live this morning. Thank you.

We'll find out later today who the winners will be as the polls begin to open later this morning.

This last political note for you from California: Here is one reaction to some of Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger's ballot proposals.

Two women from the group Breasts Not Bombs were arrested when they showed their stuff, so to speak, at the state Capitol on Monday. Some women just bared their bras, as that woman did. And the men took off their shirts, and no one really cared about that.

But, you know, I'm wondering, do these women really think that their message will matter when they pull stunts like that? Some people in here are nodding yes. Very bizarre. We just had to show you that this morning.

One of the more prominent outspoken GOP senators has a new book out.

Soledad O'Brien joins us now for a look at what's coming up.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: I can't move on. Did you say Breasts Not Bombs? That's the name of the group?

COSTELLO: Why, yes, Soledad, that is the name of the group.

(CROSSTALK)

S. O'BRIEN: When I lived in California, I was unaware of that group existing, because, you know -- well, that is one way to protest, isn't it?

Anyway, yes, you're absolutely right. And, no, we will not be talking about Breasts Not Bombs this morning with Senator John McCain. He has a new book out. It's actually a great book. It's called -- well, if we cut away from him and come back to -- there we go. Here's the book. It's called "Character is Destiny." And it's a book aimed at teenagers, Carol.

And he basically has themes like honor and purpose and strength, and sort of walks through those themes, but using a character from real life, like Thomas Moore or Gandhi or Joan of Arc, and also some real recent people, obviously people who are a little more contemporary. For example, Pat Tillman. He has a great chapter on Pat Tillman, who obviously we all know died in the Iraq war. Really, really a pretty incredible book, I think.

We're going to talk to him about that. But, of course, there are lots of other things going on politically as well. We'll get him to weigh in on those stories also.

Then, there is this new drug. Have you heard of this? It's called GBL. Pete Rose, Jr. actually pleaded guilty to a drug charge. Really, he was trafficking the drug, GBL. It's an alternative, apparently, to steroids. This morning, we're going to talk a little bit about what parents need to know if they are concerned that this might be something that their kids at least are hearing about or maybe even think about using, because steroids are obviously a huge problem among teenagers.

COSTELLO: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: So those stories and much more ahead this morning -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. We look forward to it.

S. O'BRIEN: And more on Breasts Not Bombs. We're going to be exploring that much more thoroughly, because I have a theory, which I've shared with you, but I'm willing to share again. People...

COSTELLO: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: People you want to see naked never get naked. People you don't want to see naked always get naked.

COSTELLO: We have had this discussion before, and I must agree with you, Soledad. And I'll bring more info about Breasts Not Bombs to "AMERICAN MORNING" a little later.

S. O'BRIEN: Thank you. We'll chat later.

COSTELLO: Still to come on DAYBREAK, the president's conservative pick for the Supreme Court is renewing the abortion debate. We'll have more on that ahead.

But first, here's a look at what else is making news this Tuesday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Parings (ph) Group has now focused their efforts on this clinic: the Jackson Woman's Health Organization, the site of today's rally and protests every single day that it's open. It is the last abortion clinic in the entire state of Mississippi.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People are faithful to be there when the doors are open. And it makes it very uncomfortable, and I think it should be uncomfortable to go in someplace and kill your unborn baby.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: This is the real battle over legalized abortion. It's been turned up a notch in the Supreme Court now that President Bush has picked two conservative Supreme Court justices. But states have passed so many restrictions. Some question whether Roe v. Wade is even relevant anymore.

Tonight, a PBS "Frontline" documentary will explore that issue. And here to talk about it is "Frontline" producer Raney Aronson.

Good morning.

RANEY ARONSON, "FRONTLINE" PRODUCER: Thanks for having me.

COSTELLO: What a tough topic.

ARONSON: Yes, unbelievable. And the timing was unbelievable as well.

COSTELLO: Oh, you're not kidding. So, you know, when we talk about Roe v. Wade, should -- well, I guess, should pro-abortion people really care that it's being overturned? Because it's being whittled away anyway, isn't it?

ARONSON: Well, I think they should care. If you're pro-choice and you care about abortion rights, you still should care. But what is important to know is what's happening despite Roe v. Wade remaining on the books. And that's what we really look at in this film is that what's happening.

COSTELLO: Well, tell us what's happening in the state of Mississippi. We saw a small clip. But what's happening there? And why is there only one abortion clinic providing something that's still legal in the United States?

ARONSON: It's very complicated to know exactly why there's only one clinic. We do know that Mississippi has one of the highest numbers of abortion regulations in the entire country. They've been very active. There is a culture of life there. There's a culture...

COSTELLO: When you say "they," who are "they?"

ARONSON: The pro-life movement in Mississippi is extremely powerful. They're inside of the halls of the House of Representatives, the Senate. They are very, very, very powerful there.

COSTELLO: And what kind of laws are they passing to curtail abortions?

ARONSON: They have all sorts of things from a 24-hour waiting period to parental consent. One of the strictest parental consent in the entire country in which both parents actually have to consent before a minor can have an abortion. There is only one clinic there. So, women have to travel very long distances to get to the clinic, if they can travel there at all.

COSTELLO: Why is there only one clinic? Is it because the anti- abortion protesters gather outside clinics and eventually shut them down?

ARONSON: It's a combination of things. It's certainly that. It's also that there are very few abortion providers inside the state of Mississippi who are actually willing to do the abortion procedure, who are willing to take that risk.

And we saw over time that clinic after clinic closed, and a lot of it had to do with lack of providers.

COSTELLO: Is this only in Mississippi? Or is this pervasive in the South or any specific part of the country?

ARONSON: That's a great question. We went all across the country. We found that it's everywhere. Certainly the South has more abortion regulations. But the next Supreme Court case is out of New Hampshire.

COSTELLO: So, the pro-abortion movement, what are they doing to combat this?

ARONSON: It's a great question again. The pro-choice movement is definitely on the defensive. They're doing what they can do. They're beleaguered. They're tired. And they're just definitely on the defensive.

COSTELLO: And would you say they're losing?

ARONSON: They're losing right now. You never know what's going to happen. But right now, they're having a hard time keeping up.

COSTELLO: Thank you very much, Raney Aronson. And the documentary -- I guess you check your local listings for when the documentary will air. Thank you so much for coming in this morning.

ARONSON: Thanks for having me.

COSTELLO: We're going to go to a break. Much more of DAYBREAK when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: And welcome back. It is 6:53 Eastern. Here is what will be making news today.

Ahmed Chalabi, that's the man you're seeing there. He's accused of fabricating pre-war intelligence and feeding it to the United States. He's coming to Washington today for meetings with lawmakers. Chalabi is now Iraq's deputy prime minister and is rehabilitating his image and clout with the Bush administration.

About three hours from now, the Supreme Court is expected to hand down several rulings on cases argued in early October.

And Supreme Court nominee Samuel Alito will be back on Capitol Hill this morning. The judge is scheduled to meet with senators from both sides of the aisle.

If you're traveling this morning, Jacqui has news.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: You're watching DAYBREAK for a Tuesday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: "Now in the News." Americans in France are being warned to avoid areas where riots have occurred in nearly 300 towns. Rioters burned a bus and hundreds of cars last night. The French cabinet this morning authorized curfews under a state of emergency law.

Recaptured death row fugitive Charles Victor Thompson is now back behind bars at the same Texas jail where he escaped from last week. Police arrested Thompson outside of a Louisiana liquor store on Sunday.

A section of Washington State's main East-West Highway is reopened after workers labored late into the night to clear a rockslide. Still, traffic on that section of Interstate 90 is limited to 35 miles per hour.

From the Time Warner center in New York, I'm Carol Costello, along with Jacqui Jeras this morning. "AMERICAN MORNING" starts right now.

S. O'BRIEN: Thanks, Carol. I'm Soledad O'Brien.

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