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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Three Bomb Blasts Rock Hotels in Amman, Jordan; What Does It Take to Become a Suicide Bomber?; Indiana Tornado 911 Tapes Released
Aired November 9, 2005 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. Terror strikes again -- the target, American hotels. The death toll is rising.
360 starts now.
ANNOUNCER: Bomb blasts rock American hotels in Amman, Jordan, apparent suicide attacks -- dozens dead, many more wounded -- tonight, the latest from the scene and what we know about the leading suspects.
Strapping a bomb to their bodies or carrying it in a backpack -- tonight, what does it take to become a suicide bomber? And how could anyone stop them?
The president says, we don't torture. Then, what happened to this man?
DR. STEVEN MILES, CENTER FOR BIOETHICS: Fundamentally, what he died of was of suffocating.
ANNOUNCER: A shocking look at what really happened inside a U.S. interrogation of a terror suspect.
ANNOUNCER: This is ANDERSON COOPER 360. Live from the CNN studios in New York, here's Anderson Cooper.
COOPER: Good evening, again. We begin tonight with a stark and simple lesson in terror. Terror is a wedding celebration transformed into a bloodbath. Terror is hearing what sounds like fireworks and discovering otherwise. Terror is watching it unfold from the other side of the world and knowing that the guys who did it are really gunning for you. We saw it in Riyadh. We see it in Baghdad almost daily.
Tonight, the scene is Amman, the capital of Jordan, a staunch American ally in the region, three hotels, three bombings -- dozens of people dead or wounded.
Here's CNN's Zain Verjee with the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Today's multiple bombings in Amman come just three months after the last terrorist attack in Jordan, but it was the United States' military that was the intended target.
Three Katyusha rockets were fired at two U.S. warships that were on training missions there, the USS Ashland and the USS Kearsarge. A rocket actually flew over the bow of the Ashland, but all three missed their targets. One did hit a nearby warehouse, killing a Jordanian soldier.
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's group, al Qaeda, in Iraq claimed responsibility for the attack. Zarqawi, himself a Jordanian, was sentenced in absentia to death for the assassination of the American diplomat Laurence Foley. He was gunned down in front of his house in Amman in October of 2002.
And the U.S. believed Zarqawi was involved a plot to attack intelligence agents, tourists and hotels in Amman during millennium celebrations. The Radisson SAS Hotel, hit in today's bombings, was believed to be among the targets of that plot, which Jordanian authorities stopped in late 1999.
Five Jordanians were indicted just this past July in connection with that case.
Zain Verjee, CNN, Atlanta.
COOPER: Well, tonight, officials are telling us quietly but unmistakably, that the prime suspect in these attacks tonight is Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian operating out of Iraq, a man who already has the blood of countless victims on the hands.
CNN's David Ensor investigates.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. intelligence officials say they suspect Abu Musab al-Zarqawi for several reasons, first, the method of the attacks, suicide bombs, used as Zarqawi's terrorists have done to such deadly effect in neighboring Iraq.
REUEL MARC GERECHT, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: You don't need very many young men to have a pretty effective, pretty lethal terrorist cell -- certainly, if you have young men who are willing to incinerate themselves.
ENSOR: Second, the history -- Zarqawi's men killed American diplomat Laurence Foley in 2002. They were behind the rocket attacks in the Port of Aqaba that killed two just months ago, according to U.S. officials, and they tried, but failed, to attack Jordanian intelligence in April of 2004. And, third, the Jordanian terrorist leader affiliated with al Qaeda has repeatedly stated his intention of hitting his homeland. In an April 2004 statement, he said -- quote -- "We will have more fierce confrontations with the Jordanian Government. The chapters of some of these confrontations have ended, but what is coming is more vicious and bitter, God willing."
Are the attacks part of a pattern? Like other al Qaeda attacks, they were simultaneous against soft targets, using suicide killers. And two of the hotels in Amman, the Radisson and the Hyatt, have been targeted unsuccessfully before.
JOHN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: One of the things you learn about al Qaeda is, once they have tried something, it stays on the shelf. And they have done some reconnaissance. They have thought about it. And yes, they may have been foiled once, but a little bit of their job is done if they want to go back to that target. The Trade Center is, of course, a good example of that.
ENSOR: Finally, U.S. intelligence officials note the brutality of the attack. Many of the dead were celebrating a wedding at one of the hotels.
(on camera): Al Qaeda's number two man recently warns Zarqawi in a letter that U.S. intelligence says it captured that, if he kept on attacking innocent Iraqis, as he has been, he could lose for al Qaeda the campaign for Muslim hearts and minds. It would seem that whoever conducted these attacks in Jordan wasn't concerned about that.
David Ensor, CNN, Washington.
COOPER: CNN's Hala Gorani standing by in Amman, Jordan, with the latest. Hala?
HALA GORANI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, we are a few hours away from sunrise here in the Jordanian capital.
And ordinary Jordanian residents are going to wake up to the fact that three suicide bombers, apparently, blew themselves up in three hotels associated with Western targets, the Radisson, the Grand Hyatt and the Days Inn. They're going to have to digest this wave of violence and the idea that, for several months, if not for several years, since the beginning of the Gulf War, Jordan was perceived as a likely target because of its close association with the United States.
It is, as you mentioned earlier in the program, Anderson, one of the closest allies of America and was perceived by many in the Arab world as having facilitated America's invasion of Iraq and the war in that country. So, when you ask analysts and even ordinary Jordanians, "Is this something that shocks you?" they say, yes. When you ask them, "Is this something that surprises you?" many say, no.
COOPER: Hala, exactly what happened? What time did it happen? How many people have killed? How many people are injured at this point?
GORANI: What we know right now is that we believe that the first explosion happened at 10:00 to 9:00 p.m., local time.
In close succession, two other explosions occurred in two other hotels. Officials are telling us, suicide bombers were responsible for this -- the latest death toll, 67 individuals killed, more than 120 injured. It is the middle of the night here, close to sunrise. So, the death toll hasn't moved. There have been no new announcements of official death tolls.
But, given the kind of carnage that we saw in the hotels and the fact that many of the injured were severely injured, we do expect this toll to rise.
COOPER: I understand there was a wedding going on at one of the hotels. I mean, do you know details? Do you know how many bombers there were involved? How many devices?
GORANI: Right now, we believe that one bomber was involved -- involved in that. And the highest number of casualties occurred in -- at the Radisson, where that wedding was taking place, perhaps because that was where the highest concentration of individuals was.
We did -- and a CNN crew went to the hospital and was able to speak to the groom. He said his father died and 10 members of his family are dead. And the one thing he said was that he now wants the Jordanian government to avenge the deaths of his relatives.
COOPER: So, was -- was that a person who walked into the wedding reception?
GORANI: We didn't get that kind -- that kind of detail, because so many people were taken aback and were surprised by the explosion. We're not getting exact accounts of whether or not an individual strapped with explosives walked in. These are the kind of details that are going to start trickling through.
However, as I mentioned, officials say they believe that a suicide bomber was responsible in all three of the attacks. In other words, they probably have the evidence on the ground that you end up -- the gruesome type of evidence that you end up evaluating when a suicide bombing is involved. And you can imagine what that is.
But the actual guests and the eyewitnesses we spoke to haven't been able to exactly confirm that someone walked in with a backpack or with explosives strapped to his body. Those are the kind of details that are going to be -- going to be coming out later in the coming hours, as Jordan wakes up to this tragedy.
COOPER: And I can hear the call to prayers already, as this city slowly begins to wake -- a -- a whole new day. Who knows how -- how the death toll will be affected in the hours ahead.
We are going to continue to follow it, Hala. We will be checking in with you very shortly.
Again, it bears repeating, there has yet to be a credible claim of responsibility for the bombings, even if the bloody signature does seem familiar, coordinated attacks, soft targets, American-affiliated installations.
Now, a short time ago, I spoke with CNN's terrorism analyst Peter Bergen about these attacks.
COOPER: Peter, another attack against a soft target, an American soft target, at that, several American targets -- does it surprise you?
PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: This doesn't surprise me. We have seen attacks on similar hotels with Western brand names in the past from al Qaeda or its affiliates. For instance, in 2002, a bomb went off outside a Sheraton hotel in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 12 French defense contractors. In 2004, an attack on a Hilton hotel in Taba, Egypt, killed more than two dozen people.
So part of the strategy is to attack a Western name brand, attack a Western hotel, hope it's full of Western tourists, and you get a sort of twofer. So unfortunately, whether it's in a J.W. Marriott in Jakarta that was attacked a couple of years back, or the hotels that we have seen again in -- in Jordan tonight, this is a strategy that is going to continue, that these are relatively undefended targets.
I was just in Jordan, staying at one of these -- not one of these hotels, but a similar hotel. There is no security to speak of. Yet, the threat in Jordan turned out to be very real.
COOPER: Yes. I have stayed in hotels in Jordan, as all of us really have. And -- and, as I recall now, just as you mentioned, there is no security in -- in a lot of hotels.
COOPER: I mean, there are some big guys standing around in suits. But there's no metal detectors.
BERGEN: It's -- it's -- there's less security than -- than you might get in a hotel in London. I mean, it -- it -- these hotels are wide open. Obviously, Jordan felt that they have a -- you know, tourism, I think, is their largest industry. They didn't want to have a heavy presence, perhaps. But if you go into hotels in -- in places like Pakistan, you go through a metal detect -- detector. You are searched. And that certainly wasn't happening in Jordan. I imagine, from tomorrow, it will be.
COOPER: The sickening irony of this, of course, is that it -- it is an American target. And yet, most of the victims from -- from the early information we are getting at this point, most of the victims are Jordanian. Most of the people you see in these hotels end up being Jordanian.
Does that matter to -- to an al Qaeda, to a Zarqawi, to -- to whoever is behind this?
BERGEN: I think it should matter to them, because the one thing these jihadist groups have done most efficiently is kill fellow Muslim civilians. They tend to kill a lot of Muslim civilians in their attempts to attack Westerners. That's been true in attacks that we have seen around the world.
COOPER: But it doesn't seem to -- to matter to them. I mean, you say it should matter to them. But -- but -- I mean, in terms of what they're trying to achieve, the -- the publicity is the thing.
BERGEN: Well, I think that there may be a bit of a shift there. You may remember that Zawahri just wrote a letter to Zarqawi, saying, you know, enough with the beheadings.
COOPER: Do you believe that letter is real? Because there has been some talk about...
BERGEN: I -- I believe it is real. It -- and I -- I think that Zawahri has been talking in recent years, we need to connect with the masses. Clearly, if you're killing a lot of Muslim civilians, as these groups have tended to do, that's not a very efficient way to connect with the masses.
So I think that this will have a -- a very counterproductive effect for these groups in Jordan. When the bombs go off, different laws come into play. The -- the government takes a much harsher approach. We saw that in Indonesia. We saw that in Madrid. We saw that in London.
COOPER: Three simultaneous attacks, of course, I mean, everyone knows by now, that is sort of the hallmark of -- of al Qaeda. Why stick to a hallmark like that? I mean, why stick to a -- a certain pattern?
BERGEN: I think, basically, because it's -- it's hard for -- I mean, obviously, it garners more publicity. CNN and every other news network in the world is covering this story intensively, in a way that we wouldn't have if it was just one.
Secondly, it makes it harder for the investigation to deal with it. It makes it harder -- harder for rescue services to deal with the situation. It's intended to terrorize. And it does.
COOPER: Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who, of course, is probably the most wanted man in -- in Iraq right now, is actually Jordanian. How much influence does he still have in his home country?
BERGEN: I think quite a lot. I mean, when you drive through Amman, you actually see a -- a sign for the town called Zarqa, which is not far from Amman, which was actually where Zarqawi comes from -- hence, his name. And, you know, he lived in Jordan most of his adult life. He spent time in Afghanistan, then -- then Iran, then Iraq.
But his group, which is known as the Tawhid, up until early 2002, when he transferred to Iraq, was really focused on overthrowing the Jordanian monarchy, attacking Jewish and Israeli targets in the region, and had had some success. They are implicated in the attack on the U.S. diplomat Laurence Foley, who was assassinated in Amman, Jordan, in 2002. And they certainly had plans for other attacks. So I think, you know, they must be regarded as the leading suspect here.
COOPER: And the significance of a suicide bombing in Jordan -- have -- have there been suicide attacks in Jordan before?
BERGEN: I can't recall one. I can't recall one. I mean, there was -- you know, there are obviously a lot of suicide attacks in -- right next door in Iraq, probably conducted by Jordanians. We had a big suicide attack, for instance, a couple of years back on the Jordanian embassy in Iraq that killed a large number of people. So, this technique has been imported from over the border in Iraq.
COOPER: Peter Bergen, thanks.
BERGEN: Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: A lot more ahead. The White House issued a statement tonight, the president saying -- quote -- "These barbaric acts again demonstrated the terrible cruelty of the terrorists and the great toll they take on civilized society. I send my prayers and condolence, and those of the American people, to the families of all those killed in these attacks and to those who were wounded."
Here are some other stories we are following at this moment.
Andrea Yates gets a new trial. Her murder convictions have been thrown out -- the highest court in Texas today upholding a lower court ruling. Yates was convicted of drowning three of her own children in a bathtub four years ago. She had a history of postpartum depression and pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. Today's ruling clears the way for a new trial or a plea bargain.
Reporter Judith Miller is leaving the "New York Times." The paper announced her retirement today, effective immediately. Miller is a 28- year veteran of the "Times." She was known in part for writing stories about the existence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq in the lead-up to the war, stories that later proved to be wrong. More recently, Miller has been under attack for her role in the CIA leak case.
In France, for the fourteenth straight night, more rioting. At least four cars were set on fire in the southwestern city of Toulouse. Some cities have imposed restrictions on minors who are on the streets at night without an adult. Most rioters are thought to be young and poor.
And liftoff for Europe's first mission to Venus. The European Space Agency's unmanned probe blasted off from Kazakstan and should reach its destination in about 163 days. Once it arrives, it will explore the planet's atmosphere.
More the -- more on the bombings shortly. We are going to hear from a survivor, as well as one of the true heroes of the day.
Also, the king of Jordan, he's a trusted ally. But how is he holding up under fire?
We will also be following an Iraqi in American custody minute by minute. What happened to him from his detention to his death under interrogation? Do those minutes add up to torture? You decide.
Around the world and around America, you are watching 360.
COOPER: Reactions in Amman, Jordan, on this night of blood, this night of death. Those people are saying: "Long live King Abdullah. With blood and spirit, we will redeem you."
The king, however, may need more than their best wishes. An ally of the U.S., he walks a very delicate line at home and in the region.
CNN's Nic Robertson is headed to Amman tonight. He joins us now from Amsterdam. Nic, a lot of these al Qaeda-linked groups want to see the king overthrown.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. And the king has been very aware of that. Saudi intelligence has been working very hard to prevent that.
The king's popularity an important point now -- a lot of people in Amman saying this is a -- this will be an important test of the king, to see how exactly he handles this particular problem. They are going to want to see him do something and -- and -- and be seen to be making the right moves and making the right moves with the people. There have certainly been people in Jordan who have been critical of the king, particularly over the last year, saying that he doesn't have the same deft touch that his father had.
COOPER: And, Nic, the king is supposed to be headed to Israel next week, in advance of the peace process there. Is there any sense that this bombing could somehow be linked to that?
ROBERTSON: That would seem unlikely. The -- there is one assessment that says it could even be just a matter of the date, the 9th of November, 11/9, if you will, similar to 9/11. The other testament is that -- that this was waiting to happen, that -- that the in -- insurgents, that the al Qaeda group, Zarqawi's group, if -- if it does prove to be them, just found an opportune moment. It was a complex attack, three attacks, a lot of planning. And they -- they struck at a moment that they -- that was convenient to them, quite -- quite possibly not -- unrelated to the king's visit to Israel.
COOPER: Nic, you talk about this fine line the king is walking, an ally of the U.S. in a region in which the U.S. is not particularly popular in some parts right now. Is -- is the trouble within his own regime, within his own family? Or -- or does it come from -- from outside?
ROBERTSON: The trouble when -- in his walking a fine line comes, if you will, that -- that his father had a lot of respect within -- White House, the kingdom, from the population, that he was seen as an effective leader, that he was seen as an effective politician in his own country, that he was seen as an effective leader of the tribes, if you will.
The current king has been seen to be not so successful in leading -- in leading the tribes -- that he doesn't reach out to some of the tribes in the same way that his father did, that, when dealing with the politicians in the country, though there have been several shakeups in the government this year, that he is not as an -- astute a politician as his father, not meeting as often with his -- with the -- with cabinet members, for example.
These are the types of things that people note, that -- that he doesn't have the same touch as his father.
ROBERTSON: Nic Robertson, on his way to Amman, Jordan. Nic, thanks tonight.
In a moment, the hard facts of soft targets. What, if anything, can be done to stop the next tragedy over there or here in the United States?
Also, the survivors and heroes of a very ugly day in Amman. We will talk with someone who lived through it and a doctor who tried to save lives, and did.
This is 360 from America and around the world.
ANNOUNCER: He was the teenager who sparked a cultural revolution. At the age of 18, Shawn Fanning, in 1999, created a software program so popular, he would be dubbed the king of file-sharing.
He called his online program Napster, after his own high school nickname. Fanning's idea made it easier to find and download music files.
SHAWN FANNING, NAPSTER CREATOR: I had a -- somewhat of a limited view of the world. I had grown up in Massachusetts, barely left the state. And, so -- but I was able to affect people's lives all over the world.
ANNOUNCER: Within months, millions of music lovers worldwide were swapping billions of songs for free. The music industry called it piracy. Recording artists were not collecting royalties, and some screamed foul.
LARS ULRICH, METALLICA: Napster hijacked our music without asking.
ANNOUNCER: A series of lawsuits, headlined by the rock group Metallica, forced him to shut down the original Napster.
FANNING: The judge ruled against us.
ANNOUNCER: Now Shawn Fanning has gone legit. His new company, Snocap, Inc., promises to work with record companies to give music junkies what they crave most, a broader catalogue of authorized digital music, including previously unreleased, acoustic and live tracks.
COOPER: You heard Peter Bergen talk about soft targets earlier in the hour, soft target being a gentle way of saying, in so many words, you and me.
We have seen bombs in nightclubs in Bali, trains in Spain, and now hotels in Jordan. So, how to protect you and me, and at what price?
We asked CNN's Homeland Security correspondent, Jeanne Meserve, to search for an answer.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Terrorists hit a school in Beslan, Russia. Three hundred and thirty- one hostages die, including 186 children.
Hotels in Bali, Indonesia -- the death toll is 202.
A disco in Tel Aviv, Israel -- 20 die.
Trains in London and Madrid -- 223 die, along with the suicide bombers.
All of these were so easy to attack, so easy because they were so accessible to the public, including terrorists. It is possible to harden these so-called soft targets. We have seen it in aviation since the 9/11 attacks.
RICHARD FALKENRATH, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Well, you close off the different ways to get in, except for a very limited portals. Then -- and you screen everybody coming in those portals. You ask for identification. You run them through a -- metal detectors. You run them through X-ray machines, their bags. You go through every bag individually.
MESERVE: We have seen the temporary hardening of security around large public events, like the Fourth of July celebration on the Washington Mall and the political conventions. We're seeing it right now around New York City hotels in response to the Amman bombing. But consider the number of places the public congregates -- shopping malls, movie theaters, transit hubs, museums. Securing them all would be impossible and, in some respects, undesirable.
FALKENRATH: It's just too costly, in terms of the way we want to live. We don't want to live that way in this country.
MESERVE: When terrorists have hit soft targets, killing the innocent, it has often provoked public backlash. But that has not stopped them from doing it again and again.
COOPER: Jeanne, the Homeland Security people you speak with, I mean, is there a sense that it's inevitable that there's going to be a suicide attack somewhere in the United States?
MESERVE: There really is. And there is some surprise that has not happened already. They just think this -- this -- that it -- it's impossible to secure these places. They're wide open. And, sooner or later, it is going to happen here in the U.S.
COOPER: Jeanne Meserve, thanks.
Still ahead, survivors of the terror strikes. We will talk with a witness and a doctor helping the victims, saving lives. Find out what's it's been like on the ground for the last several hours and continues to be like right now.
And later, the chaos and fear as it happened, not in Jordan, but here in the United States, dramatic 911 tapes from people in the Midwest, killer tornado this past weekend.
From America and around the world, this is 360.
COOPER: Welcome back. We are covering the terrorist attacks that occurred in Amman, Jordan, earlier today. Let's take a look at some of the video that we have been seeing throughout this day, the aftermath of what occurred, and bring you through the hours as it occurred.
It was just before 9:00 p.m. local time, the first explosion rocked the Radisson, a luxury hotel frequented by tourists and diplomats. Witnesses said a suicide bomber went into the hotel's ballroom, the middle of a wedding reception, blew himself up, taking dozens of innocent lives with him.
Minutes later, a second blast from a second suicide bomber, the target the Grand Hyatt, a five-star hotel. The bomber walked in the hotel's lobby, detonated a belt filled with explosives, reducing the hotel's entryway to rubble. The carnage didn't end there. A third explosion at a third hotel came moments later. This time the target was the Days Inn, the device a car laden with explosives. A steady stream of ambulances have been ferrying victims to the hospital. Police and soldiers have secured the scenes, are investigating the crime scene now.
Within hours, Jordan's deputy prime minister said there was a prime suspect, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a leader of al Qaeda in Iraq. He, of course, was born in Jordan. Three nearly perfectly timed blasts. That's what we're talking about. Apparent suicide attacks at American hotel chains that have killed now at least 67 people, wounded more than 150.
As of now, no one has claimed responsibility, but as we said, Jordanian-born terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the head of al Qaeda in Iraq, the prime suspect.
Joining me now from Amman by phone is Randa Yacoub, who was injured by the blast, and Dr. Khalid Salaymeh, who has been treating the victims at the hospital.
Doctor, some of the X-rays that we have seen in past bombings taken from victims of suicide attacks show pieces of metal, nails embedded in the bodies. What kind of injuries have you been seeing this time around?
DR. KHALID SALAYMEH, TREATED BOMBING VICTIMS: Good morning, Anderson. Thank you for having me on your program.
We have seen various kind of injuries from major injuries of metals like you mentioned, hitting the spinal cords of some of the patients, actually leaving them paralyzed, needing emergency surgeries; to some of the minor injuries into the lower limbs or the hands and arms, leaving them needing urgent surgery but they are actually leaving the hospital within a few hours after the injuries.
COOPER: How -- I mean, what was the scene like at the hospital when you got there? I know you weren't even on duty. You just knew there because you knew there would be a need.
SALAYMEH: Absolutely. I called in like half an hour after the incident knowing that al-Khaldi (ph) Hospital is very close by to two of the hotels, the Hyatt and the Radisson. And they were actually calling that we really need help, if not physically, because my specialty is pediatric cardiology, it has nothing to do with trauma, but physically being there helps a lot of the staff in the hospital.
But yes, you are right, initially it was a chaos. As you know, Jordan, this is the first incident that we had in our history. But things calmed down and as everybody knew what to do, patients were triaged into the area in the ER, patients, some of them, were taken into on the OR, and things calmed down within 45 minutes to an hour after the incident. But everybody stayed on alert for any newcomers from the wounded people.
COOPER: Doctor, we have one of the patients at the hospital. Randa, you were at the Hyatt, you were injured. We are actually seeing some video of you now at the hospital. How are you doing?
RANDA YACOUB, BOMBING VICTIM: I'm good. Actually, I'm...
COOPER: What sort of your injuries do you have? It looks like you have got a bandage on your head?
YACOUB: Yes, yes. There's just my -- nothing serious, in fact.
COOPER: What did you see? I understand your fiancee was with you and he went directly into surgery. How is he doing, first of all?
YACOUB: I just talked to him on the phone. He's doing great.
COOPER: Oh, that's fantastic.
YACOUB: He had surgery on his knee in another hospital.
COOPER: Can you describe for me the scene that -- what did you see with your own eyes at the Hyatt?
YACOUB: I was sitting in the lobby, and suddenly everything exploded. And we had like -- there was major smoke and rubble and we just went out the back (ph) from the kitchen. We were the first people out.
COOPER: You were the...
YACOUB: There was rubble everywhere (ph) I can remember bodies being -- that's it.
COOPER: This was the second bombing. This occurred minutes after the first bombing at the Radisson, just inside the Grand Hyatt, which is a five-storey hotel. Apparently the bomber walked into the hotel lobby and detonated a belt filled with explosives.
Did you see -- you didn't see the bomber, did you?
YACOUB: No. I didn't because I was -- like we were towards the end of the lobby, by the terrace. So we were very close to the exit from the back. We went in the front (ph) (INAUDIBLE).
COOPER: I think the entryway to that hotel was made out of stone. Was it -- is it just rubble? Is it decimated?
YACOUB: Yes. Well, I didn't even see it because we just went straight from the kitchen towards the back. That's all. I didn't see any -- we just saw smoke and blood and people laying on the floor. We just left real quickly. And then people carried us outside. And then a taxi came and took me to the hospital and my fiancee stayed there because he needed an ambulance.
COOPER: Did you ever expect you would see anything like this in Jordan, in Amman? I mean, it's a beautiful city. YACOUB: Not in this (INAUDIBLE). No, no, no, no, not at all. Because Jordan, like, is the safest place here in the Middle East and I never expected because the place is always in (INAUDIBLE) everything.
COOPER: And, Doctor, what impact do you think this is going to have in Jordan? I mean, these terrorists want to divide people. They want to divide a country. What kind of an impact do you think it's going to have considering that from what we're hearing, the vast number of casualties were Jordanian?
SALAYMEH: Well, Cooper, thank you for asking me this question. Actually, we as Jordanians are determined and emphasize the fact that we are one people here in Jordan, determined to not let those people get to us. We will continue our path of modernizing Jordan to reach the level of the modern countries. Those terrorists will never deter us from reaching our goals of finding and building a modern country. So their acts will never reach to us because we're much higher than those.
COOPER: And that's what you see this as, an attack against modernity, an attack against Jordan moving forward and evolving as a country?
SALAYMEH: I agree with you. I think that Jordan over the last few years has really evolved as a country in the Middle East, a modern economy, modern telecommunication, education. And I think that some people are not liking that. And we are so happy to have a country that's a model and a module for a new economy in the region, a modern policy, politics. And I think that's that probably what they're trying to strike.
However, I don't think they will get to us. And we will -- we are determined as Jordanians. Everybody that I talk to is shocked but determined to continue our path of building our country to reach into the level of modern countries in the world.
COOPER: Well, Dr. Khalid Salaymeh, and Randa Yacoub, your country will do just fine with people like you in it who show up to hospitals even when you're not called, but because you just want to help, and who are -- you know, who take other people to the hospital in their taxi cabs and remain strong even in the face of such terror. It's a pleasure to talk to both of you tonight and we wish you and all the people in Jordan who are watching tonight strength and peace. Thank you for joining us.
SALAYMEH: Thank you. Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: Still to come, a lot more from what's happening in Jordan.
We'll also take a look at a new study on television about sexual attitudes and how much sex your kids are seeing every night on TV.
Also, suicide bombers, we'll take to an expert about the mindset that enables a person to blow themselves up. We'll talk to a person who has studied dozens of them.
This is 360 from around the world and America.
COOPER: More on the attacks in Jordan in a moment. But first, a quick check of the other headlines of the day. Here's CNN's Erica Hill in Atlanta. Hey, Erica.
ERICA HILL, CNNHN ANCHOR: Hey, Anderson, good to see you.
We actually start off with some good news which is probably coming at good time. Your emails, phone and financial data may actually become more secure, that news coming to us from Washington. Congress reportedly planning some revisions to the Patriot Act. What does it mean? Well, proposed changes would allow judges to reject national security letters that allow the government secret access to track your digital trail, that includes your favorite Web sites.
Meantime, President Bush ignoring objections from the Chinese government. He met with the Dalai Lama, the exiled spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhists. Mr. Bush criticized China for its restrictions on religious freedoms. The president is due in Beijing next week.
And nearly 70 years after Joe DiMaggio wore his first Yankee uniform, those pinstripes are hitting Sotheby's auction block next month. The uniform has been guarded for nearly 70 years by a Yankees farm league player, Charles "Smoke" Mason tucked the threads away. Now, he's look for a payday and chances are he might get one. Sotheby's expects it to fetch some $600,000. And I know my dad would like me to get it for him for Christmas but not in the budget this year, unfortunately.
COOPER: Maybe next year. Erica, thanks.
How far is too far when questioning suspected terrorists? That's the question tonight. President Bush said this week the U.S. doesn't torture. He said that categorically point-blank, but there are plenty of recent documented cases where American personnel may have done just that.
CNN's Tom Foreman has this shocking look at what really happened in one case when Navy SEALs and the CIA handled a terror suspect.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the chaos of war, the story of the "Iceman" is not surprisingly murky, he was, after all, in the CIA's custody. But from documents, court testimony, and the reporting of the Associated Press, we know this.
Manadel al-Jamadi was captured by Navy SEALs, beaten and taken to prison. The CIA interrogated him, and an hour later, he was dead. His body wound up on ice and American soldiers posed with him.
Seth Hettena of the Associated Press has covered Jamadi's story extensively.
SETH HETTENA, ASSOCIATED PRESS: This was a joint CIA-Special Forces mission.
FOREMAN: The latest issue of "The New Yorker" backs up Hettena's reporting, that the suspected insurgent leader was grabbed at his home near Baghdad two years ago in a violent fight in the middle of the night. During a military trial over the arrest, the Navy SEALs involved said they kicked and punched Jamadi while he was hooded and handcuffed. Then at a military compound, Hettena says questioning began.
HETTENA: One of the SEALs said that CIA personnel were putting their forearm into Jamadi's chest and pressing really hard up against it.
FOREMAN: Court testimony said that Jamadi, naked from the waist down, was then taken to Abu Ghraib Prison for more questions.
HETTENA: And a chain was attached to his handcuffs to bars in the window above him.
FOREMAN: Hettena says the testimony shows Jamadi could stand, but if he fell, his arms would be wrenched upward behind him, and that's where they were when guards were called 45 minutes later.
HETTENA: He's not responsive. They take off his hood and they realize he's dead, and they put him down on the ground and blood starts coming out of his mouth. And that's basically how al-Jamadi died.
FOREMAN: The military autopsy says Jamadi died of blunt force injuries complicated by restricted breathing from broken ribs and the hood.
DR. STEVEN MILES, CENTER FOR BIOETHICS: It's absolutely crystal clear that he was tortured to death.
FOREMAN: Dr. Steven Miles, with the Center for Bioethics, did not see the body but has reviewed many of the documents in the case, including the autopsy. He says the position of Jamadi's arms would have also caused deadly pressure on his chest.
MILES: Fundamentally what he died of was of suffocating as he hung suspended with his arms behind him.
FOREMAN (on camera): So far, there's been no announcement from the CIA about anyone being held accountable, but the investigations continue into the odd final hours of the "Iceman."
Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.
COOPER: Well, there were more accusations against the CIA today. A "New York Times" article highlighted a classified report issued last year by the CIA's own inspector general which raises concerns the agency's interrogation procedures may violate parts of an international torture ban. The report though does not conclude the CIA uses torture.
Just ahead, a close look at today's terror attack in Jordan. How did it happen? Who may be responsible? We'll follow it through step by step and bring you all the latest developments.
And what leads someone to become a suicide bomber? We'll talk to an expert.
This is 360.
COOPER: This was the scene earlier today in Amman, Jordan, a city not used to seeing this sort of thing, three coordinated attacks just minutes apart, three separate believed to be suicide bombers, striking targets in American-owned hotels: a Hyatt hotel, a Radisson hotel, and a Days Inn. A lot of that we'll be covering in the hours ahead.
Today's attack in Jordan, like many other terrorist strikes, was apparently the work of suicide bombers. Not surprising, really, especially if Abu Musab al-Zarqawi orchestrated the blasts, as many believe he might have. He has used suicide bombers in many of his strikes in Iraq.
And while you have heard about these murders time and time again, you may not know what drives them to kill themselves and the innocent.
Joining me now is Professor Robert Pape, author of the book, "Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism." You studied, amazingly, over 400 suicide bombers. What did you learn about what type of person does this?
ROBERT PAPE, AUTHOR, "DYING TO WIN": Well, this gives us a rather fresh look into suicide terrorists. I have studied 462 suicide terrorists from around the world since 1980 who have actually completed the mission, killing themselves in order to try to kill others. Over half are secular.
The world leader in suicide terrorism is the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka. They're a Marxist group, a secular group, a Hindu group. In other words, what this new data shows is that suicide terrorism is not as closely associated with Islamic fundamentalism or religious fanaticism as most people think.
COOPER: In the Middle East, is there a common thread on what drives people there in Israel, in Iraq, and now in Jordan, perhaps, to kill?
PAPE: Yes, there is. Over 95 percent of all suicide terrorist attacks around the world since 1980 have in common not religion, but a specific strategic goal, to compel a modern democracy to withdraw military forces from the territory the terrorists view as their homeland or prize greatly. From Lebanon to Sri Lanka to Chechnya to Kashmir to the West Bank, every suicide terrorist campaign since 1980 has had as its direct objective to compel a democratic state to withdraw combat forces from territory that the terrorists prize.
COOPER: Is it possible that -- I mean, the Tamils do it so much that they skew the findings for elsewhere?
PAPE: Well, that's true, they do. But that would be true of any time you had the largest group in a universe of data. So the fact is that if you were to say, well, if we study lung cancer and found that smoking the number one cause of lung cancer, wouldn't all the cases of smoking causing lung cancer skew the data? The answer is, yes. So any time you find what is the largest pool of the data, that will naturally affect the outcome of the data.
COOPER: Right. In the Middle East, did you find -- I mean, what role does religion play for those, you know, who seem to be ascribing to a certain religious belief?
PAPE: Well, what we find, and this is true of the Arab suicide attackers as well, is that there are really three different personal circumstances that seem to lead to suicide terrorism. Some suicide terrorists are solely (ph) interested in social prestige, which is why they produce martyr videos. Others are interested in personal revenge for various acts of -- that the security forces have committed against either their families directly or against close friends. And others are clearly religious.
But what cuts across all three of those personal circumstances, 95 percent of the time, is a deep anger at the presence of foreign combat forces -- I don't mean advisers, I mean tanks and fighter aircraft -- on territory that the terrorists prize. Absent that deep anger at the presence of those combat forces, we hardly see suicide terrorism occurring.
COOPER: It's a fascinating study. "Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism" is the book. We definitely want to talk about this with you again, Professor Pape. Thanks for joining us.
PAPE: Thank you for having me.
COOPER: We also want to thank the millions of viewers around the world who have been watching us on CNN International right now. But for everyone else, a lot more to come tonight on 360.
Terrified people calling for help with the tornado here in the United States bearing down. Newly released 911 tapes that are themselves terrifying to listen to.
And is there rift between the two most powerful men on Earth? Some say that things aren't what they used to be between the president and vice president of United States. We'll take a look at the relationship.
Also tonight, more new details on the young man who shot several people outside his school in Tennessee -- gunshots, grief and terrible questions. And you will hear from a school gunman himself in his own words -- I spoke with him earlier tonight -- why he did it.
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