Return to Transcripts main page
Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Warning Issued For Users of Ortho Evra Birth Control Patch; Abu Musab al-Zarqawi Claims Responsibility For Jordan Bombings; Inside the Mind of a Suicide Bomber; Interview With Queen Noor of Jordan
Aired November 10, 2005 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone.
There was shock. Now there's anger, as a terrorist gloats, a country mourns, and a son prepares to bury his dad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: A wedding-turned-bloodbath, the bride and groom's fathers both murdered in Jordan's suicide attack -- on what should have been his honeymoon, this groom had to go pick up his father's body.
They promised to rebuild the levees bigger, better, stronger. So, that must be happening, right? Wrong. Tonight, keeping them honest -- how come the levees are being rebuilt exactly as they were before?
And the Gatorade killer -- a husband allegedly murders his wife with anti-freeze in her Gatorade. And parents on both sides aren't backing down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now is the time for Julie to receive the justice and dignity she truly deserves.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My son is innocent. I'm behind him 100 percent.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is ANDERSON COOPER 360. Live from the CNN studios in New York, here's Anderson Cooper.
COOPER: Good evening again.
The latest from Amman in a moment -- but, first, a look at the headlines at this moment.
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, accused in the Jordan suicide bombings yesterday, now blamed for this suicide bombing today at a Baghdad restaurant, where Iraqi police like to eat. At least 34 people were killed in this one attack. The U.S. had a $25 million reward out for the capture of al-Zarqawi.
In Washington, Senator John McCain unveiled specific ideas for a new American strategy in Iraq. His multi-point plan calls for capturing and holding -- emphasis on holding -- insurgent stronghold. He says, protecting local populations will create safe areas where -- quote -- "civil society can emerge." McCain also wants more troops and expects more casualties.
The potential 2008 presidential contender praised President Bush for his resolve against terrorism.
I will have a conversation with him later tonight.
In New Orleans, police reckoning continues -- you may remember, 45 officers have already been axed for going AWOL during Hurricane Katrina. Today, five more were fired. So far, that makes it 50 out of a force of 1,450. Disciplinary hearings could last into February.
Arvada, California (sic): Car bomb jitters forced the evacuation of this Denver suburb city hall, as well as the post office. The scare began after a caller saw a man leaving a car that held chemical tanks. Well, it turned out the guy was a construction worker, and he got tired waiting for his girlfriend, who was in police offices in city hall.
We begin tonight with a real warning, not a false alarm. It went out today to millions of women from the makers of a popular new form of birth control with potentially deadly side-effects.
CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta is working this breaking story. He joins us now with the facts -- Sanjay.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Anderson -- the FDA actually releasing a pretty strict warning there about the Ortho Evra patch.
This is a birth control patch. A lot of people have heard about this. It's been out for a few years now. And it became quite popular because it was a once-a-week patch designed to prevent birth, as a form of birth control. The concern, the FDA is warning today, is that it actually releases far more estrogen than previously thought, up to 50 to 60 percent more estrogen.
And the concern about that, specifically, Anderson, is that because of that excess circulating estrogen in a woman's body, it might predispose them, make them more likely to get blood clots. And those blood clots, possibly, are blood clots that could subsequently travel to the lungs and to the brain.
There have been reports now that the women have actually died of some of those blood clots from actually using such birth control products. Now, this is a breaking story -- as you mentioned, Anderson, the FDA releasing this warning. There have been previous reports -- we have talked about this before on CNN -- about the fact that the Ortho Evra patch had been linked to some of those deaths, specifically because of the increased doses of estrogen -- still piecing this all together, in terms of what this is going to mean.
But it could mean that the patch, at least in the form that it's in today, may just not exist for some time -- Anderson. COOPER: OK. Do you know how many women actually use this patch? I had heard a figure of four million women since 2002.
GUPTA: Yes. Four -- four -- that's the same figure that I heard as well.
And -- and just to put it in a little bit of perspective here, the numbers that we're talking about here are still very small. The number of women, for example, that get these blood clots, which could be problematic blood clots, on the birth control pills alone is less than a few -- a half-a-dozen or so out of several hundred thousand.
And if you -- you know, in -- in terms of the -- the -- the patch now, you multiply that by three. So, we're still talking about less than 20 or so women out of hundreds of thousands of women, but concerning enough for the FDA to release this warning.
I don't know what that's going to mean right now for doctors who prescribe the patch, more importantly, for women who take the patch. But, you know, everyone is sort of paying attention to this right now -- Anderson.
COOPER: Well, this is, I guess, the million-dollar question, and it may not be a question you can answer responsibly right now. But, I mean, if -- if there's a woman at home right now sitting, watching this, wearing this patch, what's the advice?
GUPTA: I think the best advice is going to be to talk to their doctor specifically about whether or not they should continue taking the patch.
Now, there are women who are going to be higher risk of developing these sorts of blood clots. Those are women who smoke. Those are women who have had a previous history of blood clots as well and women who have any kind of chronic disease who are also taking the patch. So, if you fall into one of those categories, for example, you're probably going to want to talk to your doctor sooner, rather than later, and see if there's other birth-control options available for you -- maybe the -- the pill instead.
Again, the ease of the patch was what made it so popular. But the pill might be something that's a better option for those women for right now. There's probably, as I mentioned earlier, also going to probably be a redesign of the patch as well, so that it doesn't really quite as much estrogen. We're talking to 50 to 60 percent more estrogen.
And it's been known for some time, Anderson, that -- that estrogen is linked to blood clots. So, the -- the whole mechanism isn't as big a surprise, but just the fact that it releases so much estrogen, you know, has -- has -- has surprised a lot of people...
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Just very briefly, I'm -- again, I'm thinking about that person sitting at home with this thing on. Are -- are there warning signs of a blood clot?
GUPTA: Yes, there are warning signs of a blood clot. It's a good question.
I mean, if you get a blood clot in your leg, for example, you might develop leg pain, some leg redness, some swelling in your legs as well. If you're someone who is taking the patch and you're having any of those types of symptoms, you probably shouldn't blow that off. You probably should get that looked like, and, again, talk to your doctor about whether you should stay on the patch.
COOPER: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, appreciate it. I know just breaking news. Thanks for coming in for it.
We turn now to the bombing in Amman, Jordan -- tonight, 56 dead, two of them Americans, the majority of victims Jordanian and, presumably, Muslims. Today, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi claimed responsibility, and Jordanians, in turn, called for his head.
Reporting for us from the capital, Amman, here's CNN's Brent Sadler.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRENT SADLER, CNN BEIRUT BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): Dozens of bodies are moved in and out of an overcrowded medical center in Amman, victims who never stood a chance in Jordan's night of terror.
(on camera): This is one of the hospitals in the Jordanian capital, where the injured were taken during the night.
(voice-over): Some of the survivors are here, their physical pain aggravated by the trauma of losing close relatives.
"I found the whole room destroyed," sobs this woman. "My two daughters lay on the ground, dead."
(on camera): Talking to the families here, you get a real sense of the tragedy that's felt by everybody inside this hospital. Inside, here 4-year-old Amar Khalani (ph) is being attended by his family, this little boy with a piece of shrapnel inside his head.
(voice-over): Parents scrambled to drag their children to safety. This little girl made it, but her mother died.
(on camera): With every passing hour, the shock is setting in deeper and deeper. Among the visitors at this hospital right now, Queen Rania of Jordan.
(voice-over): Close to tears, the queen was visibly shaken by what she saw and heard, especially with the wounded children.
QUEEN RANIA, JORDAN: There's nowhere else I could be today, but be with -- with our people and just try to -- you know, try to console them and -- and just be with them and -- and give them as much comfort as possible. SADLER: Thousands of Jordanians rallied outside the targeted hotels, supporting the monarchy, defying the bombers.
QUEEN RANIA: If anything, they succeeded in making people go against them even more. We are all united today in fighting this kind of extremism.
SADLER: The first suicide bomb exploded as around 250 guests celebrated a wedding in the Radisson Hotel.
(on camera): Here, you will see part of the wedding party celebration -- the food being taken away there -- a lot of activity, as you can see, around me here, as staff at the Radisson Hotel put the effort in to clear away, in very short order, the damaged furniture and the false ceiling that collapsed in this area.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bride and the groom were just about to enter the ballroom when the blast happened from inside out.
SADLER (voice-over): The bombers were sent, it's claimed, by al Qaeda in Iraq to sow fear on the streets of an American ally.
Nearly all of those killed were Arabs, most of them Jordanians. But these victims came from at least six other countries. Westerners, though, largely escaped the powerful blasts.
Of all the grief and rage that swept through Jordan, the burden of Ashraf Akhras is heavier than most, for he is the groom who, hours earlier, was celebrating the happiest day of his life, here struggling with the body of his father, another victim, to say goodbye.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SADLER: And that tragic man had to endure yet more emotional suffering, burying, Anderson, no less than 12 relatives from that wedding ceremony explosion.
COOPER: Oh, what a horrific loss for that one family.
What -- what has the reaction been among the people you have talked to in Jordan on the streets? I mean, I know there were demonstrations today, people saying they're unified. There had been some concern that this might divide Jordanians.
SADLER: Certainly, raw anger and emotion on the streets around all three blast sites, but let's not forget that there are many Jordanians who sympathize, particularly those who support Islamic extremism in a violent form, support some of what's going on inside Iraq, particularly Palestinians.
Just quickly, on the investigation front, Anderson, it's worth noting that the authorities here have reportedly picked up a group of Iraqis for questioning amid continuing reports that one of the suicide bombers spoke with an Iraqi accent shortly before detonating -- detonating a belt packed with explosives -- Anderson.
COOPER: Brent, I understand they had also shut down the borders. To your knowledge, are those borders still shut down?
SADLER: No, they were shut down for about 12 hours. I know, because I crossed them during the night myself. Borders opened late earlier this day, and the -- the capital was, during a day of morning today, packed with those demonstrators. And the security was stepped up.
We will have to see what happens Friday -- it's another holiday here -- and see what happens in the mosques, very importantly, what the sermons are going to be like in those mosques, particularly those that have had a radical Islamist extremist speaking from those mosques in the past.
COOPER: That's an excellent point.
Brent Sadler, thanks very much, live from Amman.
We will be talking to Her Majesty Queen Noor of Jordan very shortly tonight on 360.
The name of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's group is al Qaeda in Iraq. Tonight, a senior Jordanian security official, as Brent mentioned, linked the bombings to the violence there, saying that one of the bombers, the one at the Hyatt, spoke with an Iraqi accent.
What's interesting about this, if you remember, at the start of the war, we heard over and over again, so many military analysts saying, you know, suicide bombings just aren't in the Iraqi character. Clearly, that was either wrong or something about the Iraqi character has changed.
A filmmaker by the name of Pierre Rehov has interviewed four would-be suicide bombers for a documentary titled "Suicide Killers." His focus was on attacks in Israel, but what he learned provides a fascinating glimpse into the mind of these young men eager to die for jihad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: You have talked to several would-be suicide bombers, some of their parents as well. What surprised you most about them?
PIERRE REHOV, DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER: There is nothing evil in them.
Actually, I had the sense immediately that they don't -- they have a sense of good and evil, which is only different from ours. But, beside that, they are not like natural-born killers, or they don't have this psychopathology of wanting to become suicide bombers.
COOPER: What do you think it is, though, that -- that, you know, makes them take these steps?
REHOV: Well, they live in a society where, first of all, almost everything is forbidden. And, mainly, they live in a society so repressive that they cannot have any chance of having fun with -- with anything in their life. Everything which is forbidden on the -- on the Earth becomes automatically authorized in the afterlife. And they believe very, very strongly in this afterlife. It is absolutely part of their life.
COOPER: I read a quote. You once said that, for some of these -- these people, a suicide attack is -- is the only chance they can have of an orgasm. What -- what did you mean?
REHOV: Well, again, you know, most of the kids who do that are between 16 and 18 years old. And this is the age where the libido is at its most. They have no idea of what a woman looks like. They have never seen a naked woman.
And part of the training for some of them is to watch porno tapes, so they have an idea. They don't watch porno tapes for having a pleasure, but -- but just to hate even more the flesh that they carry with them. You know, it's this problem of being so afraid of death, having so much anxiety toward death, that the only solution for them is to blow up for this instant second of pleasure, where they have the equivalent of what would be an orgasm, because they have no sexuality at all.
COOPER: I want to play a clip from -- from your documentary. Let -- let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "SUICIDE KILLERS")
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I wanted to be a martyr for God and the homeland. God would have given me happiness in paradise. I would be given 72 virgins.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: What is a martyr? What does that mean?
REHOV: It's somebody who's going to lose his life in the name of God by doing an -- an extreme act, by becoming the hand of God.
COOPER: Did any of them have regrets, have wish they had not attempted, or did they all say they would do it again?
REHOV: None of the ones I have been talking to, even though they were in an Israeli jail, surrounded by Israeli guards, they said other words, something else, but, yes, I want to do it again.
COOPER: It's often not just the -- these -- these young men. It is also their families.
We want to play a clip again from your film, a mother of a suicide bomber.
Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "SUICIDE KILLERS") UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): The El Hein family has given more than one martyr. We are ready to sacrifice all our children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: These parents, in many cases, seem proud of what their children have done.
REHOV: Yes, they're proud.
And not only that, but one of the mothers was basically waiting for a postcard -- for a postcard or phone call from heaven. The mothers don't think that their -- their -- their kid is dead. They think that their kid is gone to another country called heaven, the same way he would have gone to Egypt or any -- any other Muslim place.
COOPER: Do you see any movement in Islam to just categorically condemn suicide attacks?
REHOV: Categorically, not.
For instance, right now in Jordan, everybody is shocked of what happened last night. But, when it comes down to talking about the -- the same thing happening inside Israel, they understand about Israel. They just don't understand the same thing happening inside Jordan.
The principle itself, it's not something which is condemned unanimously by the Islamic world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, coming up tonight on 360, Her Majesty Queen Noor of Jordan -- she was born and raised in America, but, for nearly three decades, was the Queen of Jordan. She will join me live in a moment.
And love gone as wrong as it possibly can -- the story of a husband accused of poisoning his wife to death little by little by little, putting green antifreeze in her green Gatorade.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: There are -- there are many people we could turn to for an American view on the Middle East and many we could turn to for a Middle Eastern view of the Middle East.
But our next guest is unique, in that she provides both. Born, raised, and educated here in the United States and, since her marriage to the late king in 1978, Her Majesty Queen Noor of Jordan. She's granted us an exclusive interview this evening.
Your Majesty, thank you very much for being with us. I'm sorry it's under these circumstances.
QUEEN NOOR, JORDAN: I am, too.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: I understand you -- you know people who were lost in these attacks.
QUEEN NOOR: I do. I -- a very good friend of mine is in intensive care. His daughter was killed in the attacks -- and relatives of another family, a son of -- of a woman I know, and -- and then other friends.
Jordan, even as its population has increased so much over the years, is still essentially one large family. And, probably, everyone in the country will have -- will either know or be connected with or have knowledge of someone who lost someone...
COOPER: Did you...
QUEEN NOOR: ... yesterday.
COOPER: Did you -- did you think such an event could happen in Jordan?
QUEEN NOOR: I -- I -- such events are terrorizing so many different parts of the world today.
Jordan, we live in a very volatile neighborhood. We represent a spirit of moderation, of inclusion, of -- of a very strong defense of Arab sovereignty and -- and freedom and open openness to the -- to the larger world.
And so, it -- it doesn't -- sadly, it's not a surprise out of the blue. But, as my daughter said the other day, why did it happen to us? It's not supposed to happen to us, because we have been an oasis of stability for so long.
COOPER: Do you think it is that, that freedom, that -- that secularness, that embrace of -- of modernity that, in part, has made Jordan a target? I mean, is that what these people, in some way, are striking against?
QUEEN NOOR: I think there -- there are probably a range of factors. I personally think that they have made a significant tactical error here.
COOPER: Because?
QUEEN NOOR: Because they have attacked innocent civilians, primarily Muslims. In that, it's a sin against Islam, what they have done.
And I think that those who comprise many of -- of the either disaffected or those searching for the best way for their grievances and frustrations and anger to be resolved or -- or represented will look at this in horror.
And I think they -- that they will lose support as a result of what they have done, because it's targeting an Arab country, Arab civilians. There's no clear military target, if that were an objective, or if they could consider that a justification, as in so many of these suicide bombings, which are, again, a sin against Islam. This was a -- a gratuitous killing of innocent civilians in the most bloodthirsty, abominable fashion.
COOPER: I have got a statement that you made -- and, Charlie (ph) -- I want to put up the -- the second statement that Her Majesty made back in October of 2004.
And I just want to read you -- read what you said and -- and talk about it. You said: "Extremist political movements are using the guise of religion to advance their political aims, rather than aims consistent with the teachings of Islam. It has been -- it has very hard, I think, for many in the Muslim world and the Muslim community and others to feel that they can speak up and speak out against these distortions. They feel very vulnerable and afraid that they might pay a heavy price for that."
How can that be changed? I mean, good people must stand up and speak out.
QUEEN NOOR: And there are so many more good people than there are these diabolical extremists. And there are so many in the middle who are just looking for that kind of leadership.
COOPER: Why don't you think that more stand up, though, and condemn -- and condemn suicide bombings across the board, whether it's anywhere?
QUEEN NOOR: Well, I -- in Jordan today, you -- you showed some footage in the setup of -- of Jordanians protesting in the street. There will be a great many more as well who, first, are still living in shock, and then that will turn to anger.
And I think this could be the beginning of mobilizing more voices to come out front. What these people need is a safety net. They need it from political leaders. They need it from religious leaders as well. There needs to be a groundswell that can begin to offer protection for every voice inside and begin to offer a very compelling alternative to the extremist rhetoric.
And -- and that has to address not only the basic human rights and -- and -- but it also has to address the ability of people to know some hope and opportunity in their lives and to have a voice in the decisions that affect them. These -- this is the source -- these are the sources of frustration and anger in so many parts of -- of our region.
COOPER: Your Majesty...
QUEEN NOOR: And, as those are addressed, we will see the extremists losing ground.
COOPER: I -- next time you come, I hope it's under happier circumstances.
QUEEN NOOR: So do I. Thank you, Anderson...
COOPER: Thank you.
QUEEN NOOR: ... for your focus on this story.
COOPER: Thank you very much -- Her Majesty Queen Noor of Jordan.
Erica Hill from Headline News joins us, some of the other stories we're following right now.
Hey, Erica.
ERICA HILL, HEADLINE NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Anderson.
Some tough words, once again, from conservative Christian televangelist Pat Robertson. He's warned the town of Dover, Pennsylvania, not to be surprised if disaster strikes, because he says the town rejected God by voting their school board out of office because the board was -- many members of the board supported intelligent design.
Now, you might recall, a few months ago, Robertson made headlines calling for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez.
New York City, a lesson for criminals: You can't hide from DNA evidence. A jury took less than two hours to convict Fletcher Anderson Worrell of raping and robbing a woman at knifepoint 32 years ago. The verdict comes due to DNA technology that didn't exist when he was first tried in 1974. Worrell will face up to 50 years in prison when he is sentenced on November 28.
Buenos Aires, Argentina, meet Godzilla. That's the name scientists have given to the fossilized skull they discovered in the Patagonia desert. It's from a fierce sea monster that terrorized the Pacific ocean 135 million years ago, when dinosaurs roamed the Earth. In checking into the family tree, it turns out it's actually an ancestor of the modern crocodile.
And, from Hong Kong to London, a record-breaking flight -- this Boeing 777 made the longest nonstop flight by a commercial jet, 22 hours, 43 minutes. The flight plan, over the Pacific ocean, North America, and the Atlantic, proves you can pretty much now go anywhere in the world nonstop.
And, Anderson, I believe there were like eight pilots or something swapping off shifts. And they saw two sunrises.
COOPER: Really? And...
HILL: Which is kind of cool.
COOPER: I wonder how many movies and what movies they showed.
HILL: A lot of movies.
(LAUGHTER) COOPER: All right, Erica Hill, thanks very much.
360 next: in New Orleans promises that are falling short, dangerously short, rebuilding the levees. Remember all those promises. It's going to be rebuilt bigger, faster, stronger, all that stuff? It's not happening. Who's to blame? We will look into that ahead.
And he vowed to love her in sickness and in health, but now he stands accused of slowly poisoning her to death -- the murder weapon, Gatorade spiked with antifreeze. We will look at this bizarre case.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: You know, in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, a lot of people made a lot of promises. We promised to continue telling the story of New Orleans and the Gulf, to continue searching for answers about what went wrong, why the levees failed, and what's going to happen to the hundreds of thousands of people who, tonight, right now, are not sleeping in their homes. And we plan to keep that promise.
Tonight, we begin a new segment. "Keeping Them Honest," we're calling it. And we start by looking at the levees. Remember them?
Here's what the president said back in New Orleans in September.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That is our vision for the future. And this city and beyond, we will not just rebuild. We will build higher and better.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: "Higher and better."
Well, now, the levees are being rebuilt right now, but guess what? They're being rebuilt exactly the same way as they were originally built, not to withstand a Category 5 storm, as many had promised in those days after the storm, but to withstand a Category 3 storm.
Now, you ask the Army Corps of Engineers why they're rebuilding exactly the way they were built, and they say, well, look, we're just doing what we're told. The money's not allocated. That means the problem is in Washington.
So, tonight, we speak with Bill Walsh. He's a Washington-based reporter for "The Times Picayune."
I talked to him a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Bill, I was in a room of New Yorkers the other day, and I asked them for a show of hands, how many people knew that the levees are right now being rebuilt to the exact same strength they were before Katrina. And no one realized that. Everyone thought the levees were being rebuilt bigger, you know, stronger, better. What's gone on? What's the holdup in Washington?
BILL WALSH, "TIMES PICAYUNE": Well, there are a lot of holdups in Washington, and one of them is money. The estimate right now to build bigger, higher hurricane protection levees, that is to withstand a Category 5 hurricane the estimates range to around $3.5, $4 billion, and the project wouldn't be done for about a decade or so.
The plan right now, then, is to rebuild the levees to the Category 3 specifications that they were supposed to have been built to pre-Katrina. Now, the bad news there is that the Corps of Engineers says they can't even get that level of protection back in place until June, which as you know is the beginning of the next hurricane season.
COOPER: But you know, I read in this article that you wrote today in the "Times Picayune," there's a quote from Congressman Conrad Burns, Republican from Montana and he says, "I think over time we should keep reinforcing it," meaning the levees, "and eventually get to a Category 5. That way we can spread the cost out over time."
That sounds an awful lot, though like let's just push this down the road and -- I mean, if there's already Katrina fatigue, you know, six years from now when they're being asked to allocate more billions of dollars, is anyone going to do it then?
WALSH: It's a real problem. I mean, we for that story, we talked to about two dozen members of the Senate and the House. And I was surprised to find out how many of them simply weren't convinced that it could be done or that it ought to be done. I think there's concern about Louisiana's legacy of political corruption. We talked to members, who talk openly about the fear that this money is going to be squandered at best or at worst stolen.
There's also concern about the science. Can the Corps of Engineers build levees that can withstand the strongest hurricane on record? Now, the other piece of this, of course, is that we're in a period where Congress is looking to cut the budget. They feel they've spent a lot of money on Katrina, Iraq, a whole host of things. They're in a deficit spending situation.
COOPER: You're living in Washington. Do you get the sense that there is Katrina fatigue, that there is this -- that people kind of feel like you know, people have moved on from it? Because obviously for New Orleans, for the Gulf States, the people, hundreds of thousands of people who are still not sleeping in their homes, this thing hasn't moved on.
WALSH: Absolutely. But I think the hill, Capitol Hill as it usually does, has moved on to the next crisis. I was up on the hill yesterday, talking to lawmakers, and I was the only reporter up there asking about Katrina and money for Katrina. Reporters were talking about a leak investigation. They were talking about ethics investigations. They were talking about Iraq. They were talking about everything except Katrina.
It was really stunning that this storm, this -- the largest natural disaster in American history, hit just over two months ago and already Washington has really stopped talking about it.
COOPER: Bill Walsh, you're reporting along with all the other folks from the "Times Picayune" continues to be remarkable. We'll continue to talk about the subject. Thank you, Bill.
WALSH: Thank you.
COOPER: Let's just remember, Washington stops dealing with things when we stop talking about stuff. I'm not talking about the media. I'm talking about you at home calling your congressman, calling your senators, and talking about it and keeping this story alive because there are hundreds of thousands of people who are not sleeping in their homes tonight and they have no sense of when or if they're ever going to get back to their homes. We've got to keep the focus on this. We have to keep attention, we owe it at least to the people who died -- who died unnecessarily in New Orleans and elsewhere.
Still to come on 360 tonight -- anti-freeze and Gatorade. A toxic combination. The question is were they used for murder? We'll take you inside a shocking case.
Plus, playing Mr. Potato head with your baby. Choose the parts you like, design your own offspring. Science fiction? Au contraire. Designer babies, when 360 continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: What appeared to be a mysterious illness may have been a malicious and almost unthinkable crime. For months last year a woman named Julie Keown, a 31-year-old nurse, complained of dizziness and nausea and noticed a rash developing on her leg. When she went to get help, doctors told her that her kidneys were damaged but they couldn't figure out what was happening to her.
By September Julie Keown was dead, having never known exactly what killed her and not knowing that the man she loved, her own husband, may have been poisoning her all along. CNN's Dan Lothian investigates.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): James and Julie Keown moved from Kansas City to this apartment in Waltham, Massachusetts in January of 2004. Because, he claimed, he was going to attend Harvard Business School. But by May she was sick with nausea and diarrhea, was disoriented and developed a rash. Julie went to a doctor and on another occasion to a hospital emergency room, but nobody could figure out what was wrong.
(on camera): On September 4th, 2004, Julie Keown was brought back here to Newton Wellesley hospital, where she slipped into a coma. That's when doctors discovered what was really wrong with her. Her body contained a high dose of ethylene glycol, the main ingredient in antifreeze. But it was too late. Julie Keown died a few days later.
(voice-over) After a year-long investigation James Keown was charged with the first degree murder of his wife. The district attorney says Julie was slowly poisoned by having antifreeze mixed in with her Gatorade.
MARTHA COAKLEY, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Ethylene glycol is a fairly thick, syrupy, sweet-tasting substance. It will induce initially condition that's approximate someone who's under the influence of alcohol. But when mixed with this liquid would both be undetectable to taste by and large, would also be absorbed into the system pretty quickly because the high sugar content.
LOTHIAN: Reading from a statement, Julie's parents described the pains of losing their daughter.
JACK OLDAG, JULIE'S FATHER: We are tormented daily by the why of it all. Our lives were changed forever by this horrible, evil and senseless act.
LOTHIAN: At his arraignment the radio talk show host had only one thing to say.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What say you, Mr. James Keown? Are you guilty or not guilty?
JAMES KEOWN, CHARGED WITH MURDER: Not guilty, your honor.
LOTHIAN: Authorities say their investigation also shows that the couple had no money at the time of Julie's death but that she was covered by a quarter of a million-dollar life insurance policy. They discovered something else as well.
COAKLEY: Investigators also learned that defendant, contrary to the belief of his wife and others, was not enrolled at the Harvard Business School but he had merely enrolled at the Harvard Extension School in a particular course involving the Internet, for which he had received a failing grade.
LOTHIAN: James Keown moved back to Missouri but hasn't collected the life insurance money because of the ongoing investigation. He was hosting a radio talk show called "the Party Line" when police arrested him during a commercial break. Dan Lothian, CNN, Waltham, Massachusetts.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Julie Keown's death and the accusations of murder against her husband have been a shock to those who know them, of course. James Keown's family believes he is innocent and that it's going to be proven in court. I spoke with his mother, Betty Keown, by phone earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) COOPER: Betty, when was the last time you talked to your son?
BETTY KEOWN, MOTHER OF JAMES KEOWN (on phone): Yesterday.
COOPER: How is he doing?
B. KEOWN: He's doing -- he's doing well.
COOPER: Why do you think it is that authorities have focused on him?
B. KEOWN: I have no clue.
COOPER: Authorities say that your son lied to Julie about going to Harvard Business School. What did he tell you about that?
B. KEOWN: Not a thing. That I don't know anything about.
COOPER: Did he tell you anything about why they moved to Massachusetts?
B. KEOWN: Yes, but that -- that is personal. And I can't go into that, I'm sorry.
COOPER: But he didn't tell you that he was going to Harvard?
B. KEOWN: He was taking classes, yes. He did tell me.
COOPER: OK. At what point did you realize that the police suspected your son?
B. KEOWN: Whenever they started asking -- well, they started doing an investigation. And then Monday I was totally shocked that they came in and arrested him.
COOPER: What was that moment like? I mean, it's ...
B. KEOWN: Well, to tell you the truth, I don't -- I can't -- I was just in shock. I don't know. I don't know what that moment -- I mean, that moment was -- it was terrible.
COOPER: And when you talk with your son now, what are those conversations like? What -- as a mom what do you try to do to make your son feel better?
B. KEOWN: That I'm there for him. I love him. He is innocent. And this will be proven.
COOPER: Do you believe ...
B. KEOWN: Do I believe in my son? Yes.
COOPER: Do you believe in your heart that your daughter-in-law was murdered?
B. KEOWN: No. I don't know that. I -- no, I don't think so. No. No. I don't. No, I don't believe that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, next on 360 -- why would a person kill a loved one, and why would they do it in that way, over time, watching them slowly die? We'll look at some infamous cases and examine what would drive someone to commit a murder in a family.
Plus, actress Geena Davis, star of the new hit show "Commander in Chief," talks to me about women in power and why the working world is still so unfair today. Talking about the wage gap for women in America. Around America and the world, this is 360.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Before the break we told you about the murder of Julie Keown. Her suspected killer, her husband James, is accused of an appalling crime, murdering the person he promised to spend the rest of his life with. Murdering her slowly, painfully, poisoning her over a period of months with antifreeze in her Gatorade.
This crime may be unusual, but sadly the murder of a loved one is not. The FBI says an eighth of all murders happen within the family and a third of all female murder victims last year, one third, were killed by either their husband or their boyfriend. It all leads us to wonder what would drive a person to kill a loved one?
We're going to explore that in a moment. But first CNN's Heidi Collins takes a look at some infamous murders within the family.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): His former lawyer says James Keown was deeply in love with his wife and has no idea how she died. Prosecutors say he may have been motivated by money to take her life. A $250,000 life insurance policy to be exact. And inspired by a case he saw on Court TV. The case of Lynn Turner (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Picked up a jar that had a liquid in it, started to drink it.
COLLINS: Turner, you may remember, was convicted of killing her husband, Glenn, by serving him antifreeze. And prosecutors say he may not have been her only victim. She was married to Glenn Turner for two years, and just days after his death in 1995 she made arrangements to move in with Randy Thompson. He died six years later. It took four years for Georgia authorities to get suspicious about Turner's death and place his widow under arrest. Once again, prosecutors said the motive was money. A $100,000 life insurance policy.
And they showed the jury the chilling similarities between Turner's death and Thompson's. She's serving life in prison. It's hard to understand the urge to kill someone we love, even harder to imagine watching them die an agonizing death.
Take the case of the Japanese teenager accused of trying to kill her own mother with rat poison. Police say she coolly recorded her mother's suffering on a blog site, writing on August 19th, "My mother has been sick since yesterday. She has a rash all over her body." Then on September 12th, "My mother has been complaining her legs are no good for two or three days. It is almost impossible for her to move."
Her mother is still in a coma. She is awaiting trial. She has been quoted as saying "her mother must have taken the poison by mistake." Police say she was simply trying to emulate her hero, Graham Young.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My mother died of a collapsed bone at the top of her spinal column, Michael. She slipped whilst walking in the garden, and it snapped just like that.
COLLINS: He was the so-called teacup poisoner of the '60s and '70s, immortalized in the movie "The Young Poisoner's Handbook." Young served time in a British prison for killing his stepmother, then poisoning his father and sister and dozens more. He died in jail in 1990. Police said then his motivation was much more than just the urge to kill. It was more about the need to watch his victims suffer. Heidi Collins, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Man. Coming up next, are there killers within our own families? Find out what drives someone to murder a loved one.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, tonight we've heard about James Keown, a man accused of killing his wife by mixing her Gatorade with antifreeze over the course of months. We've also heard stories of those who were found guilty of murdering spouses or family members. Now we want to explore why they did it or why they may have done it.
Joining me to discuss that here in New York, Dr. Michael Stone, professor of clinical psychiatrist at Columbia University. And in Watertown, Massachusetts James Alan Fox, a criminologist from Northeastern University and author of the book "The Will to Kill."
Appreciate you both being with us.
Dr. Stone, let's start off with you. There are many different ways people kill within families. Men killing women, husbands killing wives. Let's just focus on husbands and wives here for a moment. If it's not a crime of passion, if it is what you call an instrumental killing, what is that?
DR. MICHAEL STONE, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: Instrumental means that it's done for a discrete purpose and there's planning and scheming into it as opposed to a sudden impulsive ...
COOPER: And what are the reasons people would plan and scheme? What are the main motivations? STONE: The main motivations, I count four of them. One is to be with another woman, be with a mistress, whatever. Another one is greed, where there's a big insurance policy that's going to put them on the map and solve all their financial problems. Another one is the same jealousy that is behind the impulsive murders. But that's less common in the instrumental group. And then finally a matter of convenience to get rid of a woman that has information that would be very embarrassing or whose life is successful in a way that puts embarrassment in the husband and so he gets rid of her to get rid of the embarrassment or humiliation or whatever.
COOPER: Mr. Fox, what does it tell you about -- what this man is accused of doing is poisoning his wife over time, putting antifreeze in her Gatorade. What kind of person can watch their spouse slowly die like that?
JAMES ALAN FOX, CRIMINOLOGIST: Someone whose sense of love is particularly shallow. Let me just add on to Dr. Stone's four elements here. There is actually a fifth one I want to point out. There are cases, we have one in Massachusetts, of a man who attempted to hire a hit man to kill his wife to ensure that he would get custody of the children. A divorce, you see, he wouldn't get the custody, he would hardly ever see his kids. So murder for him was much more convenient because it meant he would have custody ...
COOPER: But that's murder at a distance, hiring someone else to do your dirty work.
FOX: These are crimes of dispassion.
COOPER: Right. But to watch someone -- to live with someone as you're killing them, there's got to be a certain extra level of hell which is designated for those people.
FOX: Well, yes. There may be -- there are some, as we saw in the previous segment, who enjoy the whole process of taking the life of someone, they're full of anger, resentment toward a family member. But cases like this oftentimes just means that the perpetrator has a very limited attachment to the person he presumably loves. A lot of times these guys are very able to play the role of a loving husband. They can say all the right things, but their sense of love is very shallow when it comes to the point where they have an ulterior motive to kill, their spouse becomes expendable.
COOPER: Dr. Stone, do they ever love? I mean, can they love?
STONE: I would agree with Professor Fox that their capacity for love is very limited and very shallow. What I think we're both talking about is psychopathy, and that is a special personality disorder characterized by extreme egocentricity or narcissism, the chief features of which on the personality side are superficial charm and glibness where they could say anything but not really mean what they're saying. Grandiosity, feeling of superiority, I can get away with anything, callousness. Lack of remorse, lack of empathy and compassion. And inability to take responsibility for what they're doing. When you have that package of personality traits, you're dealing with somebody ...
COOPER: I've got to tell you, this sounds like a lot of guys I know.
FOX: Well, it's true.
STONE: I hope not too many.
FOX: Because there are many men who fit that characterization. Their sense of love is very selfish. They love someone for what that person does for them, not for what that person is as an individual. So when that person no longer becomes useful for their plan, they ...
COOPER: They just discard them and they can just be -- it's fascinating. Professor Fox, appreciate you joining us. We're out of time. Dr. Michael Stone as well. Thank you very much. Fascinating discussion.
To all our international viewers around the world, millions of you, thanks very much for joining us on CNN International. A lot more, though, for everyone here in the United States. In the next hour a look at the bombers who killed 56 people and themselves in Jordan and who were remotely operated by Abu Musab al Zarqawi. A country away. That at least right now is the allegation.
Plus, why should parents trust to luck when they can just about custom design their own children? Oh, brave new world. It is here now.
Also tonight, a talk about women and power with Geena Davis, who plays a pretty powerful woman with all the power in the world, really, the commander in chief. Around America and the world, this is 360.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
