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American Morning

Terror Attacks In Jordan; Jordan Intelligence; Andrea Yates May Face New Trial; Minding Your Business

Aired November 10, 2005 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Fifty-six people are now confirmed dead. Ninety-three other people were injured in those attacks. The attacks happened at three international hotels, the Radisson, the Grand Hyatt and the Days Inn, all popular among western and international tourists.
Well, Jordan is the key ally of the United States in the war on terror. President Bush is calling the attacks cowardly and barbaric. AMERICAN MORNING's Bob Franken live for us this morning at the White House.

Bob, good morning.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

And, coincidentally, the president of the United States is meeting this afternoon with the president of Yemen. Yemen, a country with a complex relationship to the U.S., and a complex relationship with the terrorism that has come in the Middle East. And certainly they'll be discussing what happened in Amman, Jordan, yesterday.

The president has put out a statement which he condemned "barbaric acts again demonstrating the terrible cruelty of the terrorists and the great toll they take on civilized society. To the people of Jordan and King Abdullah," said the president, "we pledge our full support int heir efforts to bring the terrorists to justice. Jordan is a key ally on the war on terror and will have all the assistance we can offer."

And, of course, in the back of the national security apparatus in the United States, concerns about the viability still of al Qaeda and that lingering question always, could it happen here?

Soledad.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Bob Franken is at the White House for us this morning.

Bob, thanks for that update.

In just a few minutes, we're going to speak with CNN Security Analyst Pat D'Amuro. He was in Jordan when a plot to attack the same Radisson Hotel was foiled. That's ahead in just a few moments.

First, though, a look at some of the other stories making news. And, unfortunately, more violence to report as well. Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I know. Suicide bombers responsible for, you know, the death in Jordan. Well, a suicide bomber struck in Iraq. Six hours ago, a crowded Baghdad restaurant was the scene of a suicide bomber. At least 34 people died when that man blew himself up. Two dozen others wounded. It was one of the biggest attacks in the Iraqi capital in recent months.

After more than 30 years, a family finally seeing justice. Fletcher Worrell, also known as Clearance Williams, was suspected in a string of rapes. He was finally convicted Wednesday of one rape, a 1973 attack on a New York City woman. The verdict made possible by DNA testing not available in the original trial. Worrell is set to be sentenced at the end of this month. He also faces possible charges in a number of other cases.

A House vote on a sweeping budget bill is expected to go forward today, minus a plan for oil drilling in Alaska. House leaders scrapped a proposal to open up an arctic national wildlife refuge to drilling. Some Republicans said it was too controversial and could have jeopardized approval for the budget. But Congress could bring up the issue again when negotiations reach the final stage.

Former "New York Times" reporter Judith Miller is moving on. Miller retired from the paper on Wednesday saying she had, "become the news herself." She spent 85 days in jail for refusing to reveal a confidential source in the CIA leak case. She and "The Times" editorial staff have butted heads repeatedly. Miller adds "one person's whistle blower is another snitch."

Hear more from Miller tonight. She'll be on "Larry King Live." That comes your way at 9:00 p.m. Eastern.

And call him a freedom fighter. President Bush awarding the Medal of Freedom to boxing great Mohammed Ali. The champ need help to walk. He's fighting Parkinson's disease. His daughter, Laila, has said Ali never even speaks anymore, but he doesn't seem to have lost his sense of humor. Making a sign that President Bush would have to be crazy to take him on because President Bush, you know, kind of there you see the exchange. So he still has a sense of humor. It's up and running.

Let's head to Atlanta to check out the weather. Bonnie Schneider in today.

Good morning, Bonnie.

(WEATHER REPORT)

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's talk about what's going on in the country of Jordan this morning. They're picking up the pieces. The investigation's under way after a three simultaneous bombings, suicide bombings, in Amman, the country's capital. Let's go to the Google map and give you a sense of exactly what we're talking about. Jordan's sandwiched between Israel and Iraq, Saudi Arabia as well. It is really, in many respects, the gateway to Iraq and has had a long-time relationship, economic and otherwise, with the country of Iraq. And a lot of the problems of Iraq have spilled over across its borders. The Radisson, the Days Inn and the Hyatt targeted. Fifty- six dead, 93 injured. Those numbers, of course, will fluctuate.

The question is this morning, who was it, why, and what could this possibly mean for terror all across the world? CNN Security Analyst Pat D'Amuro is an expert on these matters. He joins us now.

You were there in '99 when there was a plot the famous, infamous millennium plot was thwarted. At that time, was Jordan viewed as a place that might be very susceptible to terror?

PAT D'AMURO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, absolutely. Jordan has had a history of terrorists in their territories, so to say. The intelligence service there has been very good at weeding out information and actually preventing bombs. This is the first suicide bombing that's actually taken place in Jordan. They had some bombings in the early '80s, in the late '80s with respect to a theater district, but not suicide bombings. So it's a little bit of a c change for them.

MILES O'BRIEN: Let me ask you this. The violence that we've seen unfold in Iraq, and the fact that that country is so unstable, is that spilling across the borders and is that leading to instability in Jordan?

D'AMURO: Well, I think it's important to note that al-Zarqawi comes from an area of Jordan called Zarta (ph). And a lot of individuals from that area have been going into Iraq to fight Jihad. So it's quite possible that they've been trained in these types of techniques with Zarqawi coming back into Jordan to conduct those types of attacks.

MILES O'BRIEN: Is the goal to bring down the monarchy in Jordan?

D'AMURO: Absolutely.

MILES O'BRIEN: Yes. Simple as that.

D'AMURO: It's as simple as that. And also to attack American interests abroad. That is what it's always been about. Going back to the millennium plot and those hotels, the same two hotels were threatened back then.

MILES O'BRIEN: What do you make of this potential symbolic numerology? If you flip the date and month, it becomes 9/11. The ninth day, 11 month, which is what they would do over there anyway, 9/11. Should we put much into that? Do investigators operate on such hunches?

D'AMURO: It's possible that that was a consideration by the terrorist. But what they really go by is, will they be successful with conducting those attacks. And now you're seeing attacks into soft targets like hotels and that's a huge concern.

MILES O'BRIEN: Let's talk about soft targets, hotels. We just saw Chris Huntington just a little while ago down the street here in Manhattan in front of a hotel, big show of force there, lots of police cars parked and, you know, the lights blaring. Does that I mean that's obviously symbolism. That doesn't really, in the final analysis, equate to tight security. Or does it?

D'AMURO: Well, Miles, it's symbolism. However, any change in security will cause a terrorist possibly to back off from his attack, giving investigators more time to pull information out of Jordan to see if there are any connections here to the United States. Right now we don't know of any. But they'll be looking to find out who the terrorist bombers are, have they had any contact with individuals in the United States, trying to find out if they've had telephonic contact, Internet communications and so on.

MILES O'BRIEN: Soft targets, hotels, shopping malls, subway systems, all of which have not been targeted in this country. Why not?

D'AMURO: It's a good question. I think that a lot of the changes in security may have caused some disruption. I think we're not out of the woods yet. We will see future attacks abroad and within the United States.

MILES O'BRIEN: Should these soft targets, hotels and the like, should they be doing things that they're not doing right now to make it safer?

D'AMURO: Well, there's things you can do when there's intelligence to indicate that there's a potential threat. You can have bomb dogs. You can have explosive sniffing device machines. You could have metal detectors. There's a lot of things that you can implement. Of course, you don't want those there all the time because you want the freedom, you want the feeling that places are accessible. So there are other things they can do besides intelligence to change security measures, to give little different view to possibly stop a terrorist attack.

MILES O'BRIEN: Final thought here. U.S. interests obviously targeted in this case. The FBI, I know, has an office in Amman. How active a role will U.S. authorities play in this investigation?

D'AMURO: Well, I'd be very surprised if FBI investigators aren't en route right now trying to work with the Jordanians to see if there's any intelligence that would connect it to the United States. We've deployed many times to Jordan and other parts of the world when there's intelligence that may affect the domestic homeland security.

MILES O'BRIEN: And there's a good relationship there?

D'AMURO: Very good relationship with the Jordanians. They're an outstanding service.

MILES O'BRIEN: Pat D'Amuro, thanks for your insights. As always, appreciate it.

D'AMURO: My pleasure.

MILES O'BRIEN: Soledad.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Ahead this morning, we're talking about Andrea Yates. A Texas court has now cleared the way for Andrea Yates to get a new trial. Her defense team, though, may not want one. We'll ask her attorney why coming up next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: A Texas court on Wednesday cleared the way for Andrea Yates, who was convicted of drowning her five children, to get a new trial on capital murder charges. They refused to, in fact, consider a lower court's decision that overturned the conviction. Well George Parnham is Andrea Yates' attorney. He's in Houston this morning.

Good morning. Nice to see you again. It's been quite a long time because Andrea Yates has spent quite a long time, years, in fact, in prison. This is good news, obviously, for your team. What's Andrea's reaction to this news?

GEORGE PARNHAM, ATTORNEY FOR ANDREA YATES: Well, I have not had an opportunity to speak directly with her. I have, obviously, talked to the prison officials. I will travel tomorrow to visit with her and explain to her the consequences, the alternatives, just to basically let her know where we are.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: What are the consequences and the alternatives? Right now a new trial is on the table. Do you want that or not?

PARNHAM: Well, obviously, I would much prefer not to have to put Andrea Yates through the ordeal of the diapers and pajamas and crime scene videos. This is a mother who lost her five children by her own hand, not by her rational mind, on June the 20th of 2001. The reality, however, is that we have some mental health issues that need to be addressed. And if the prosecutors are willing to take those matters under advisement and any consideration, we can get this case resolved.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: In other words . . .

PARNHAM: Short of that, we're in trouble.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: In other words, deals would need to be done before you would be comfortable with some kind of a plea bargain. What would work for you? What would you like to see for your client?

PARNHAM: I would like Andrea Yates to be placed into a mental health facility to receive long-term care that would not only provide security for her, but also would answer some issues concerning her mental health requirements. Andrea has been sick for a very long period of time. She is presently this day on very heavy anti- psychotic medications, as well as anti-depressants. She is going to need help for a long time.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: This new trial opportunity stems from expert testimony in the original trial in which Park Dietz, a psychiatrist who was testifying on behalf of the prosecution, said, in fact, that there was a "Law & Order" episode in which a mother drowned her children in the bathtub. And it turned out that that was not the case. There was no "Law & Order" episode. And he essentially told jurors something that was inaccurate, hence the new trial.

At the same time, prosecutors, you have to imagine, are going to say, OK, outside of that detail, nothing's really changed about this story. Why should she go into a mental health facility as opposed to prison which is where she is right now?

PARNHAM: Well, the problem with Dr. Dietz's testimony was that not only did he say such a show existed, but he said he consulted on that show. And the prosecutors argued in summation that this gave Andrea Yates a rational plot and a plan to get out of a trapped marriage. Totally distinct from mental health issues, he was the only testifier in that case on whether or not she for the state, whether or not she knew what she was doing was wrong. It was also used to cross examine our expert, Dr. Lucy Perer (ph), to undermine her credibility and her opinion and her evaluation of Andrea Yates' mental health.

So we're back to square one. We've eliminated the "Law & Order" falsity and let's hope that we're going to be able to explain to this jury the reality of an individual suffering from postpartum psychosis, a reality that is not like the reality that individuals who are free from mental illness exhibit.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Meaning, you think Andrea Yates could have loved her children and also killed her children?

PARNHAM: Absolutely.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: That's going to be a tough sell, isn't it? Not just to the prosecutors, but also to the American public, don't you think?

PARNHAM: Yes. It's going to be hard and very definitely I've been working on this for five years and trying to convince groups, individuals in our communities and across this country, of the reality of postpartum psychosis or postpartum depression. And I think once that's understood, postpartum basically is a mental illness that is gender based. The reality of a mother's very instinct to nurture, to protect from danger, is still left intact. But when a mother is in a psychotic world where her values are totally different, the dangers then become unreal. And Andrea Yates believed that her children were going to go to hell unless she took their lives at a very young age because she was such a bad mother and they were deteriorating. That was a delusion that was a direct result of mental illness.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: We don't have much time but what's your sense? What are the prosecutors going to do? Do you think, in fact, they will do a deal with you at the end of the day? PARNHAM: I don't know. I doubt it. I have I think this case will be teed up one more time.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: For one more trial.

All right, George Parnham is the attorney for Andrea Yates. Thanks for talking with us.

PARNHAM: Thank you very much.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: And, obviously, we're going to follow this story too.

PARNHAM: Thank you for asking (ph).

MILES O'BRIEN: Imagine having to relive the pain of that trial again. That's just excruciating.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: You know, for everybody involved he talked about the pain, obviously, for Andrea Yates, but also, I mean, for her husband who's's now her ex-husband.

MILES O'BRIEN: For everybody. For Rusty, yes.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: And I think it was a trial that was very painful for the American public to watch. It was the details of that case were utterly horrific. That's going to be a tough one to hear again.

MILES O'BRIEN: Hard to find justice in that one.

Coming up, we are "Minding Your Business." Amtrak fires the president. Shoves him off the train, so to speak. A little bit of a political dust up on Capitol Hill as a result. Andy will tell us about that next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MILES O'BRIEN: Central Park, New York City.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: For quite a long time there.

MILES O'BRIEN: Deep thoughts. Deep thoughts. It was kind of a CBS Sunday morning moment. Just listen to it silently. There it is.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Still there. Central Park, still there.

MILES O'BRIEN: You know, here's the thing about Amtrak. They wanted to break off the northeast corridor because that was the bright spot.

ANDY SERWER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

MILES O'BRIEN: If that's the bright spot, you're in trouble, right?

SERWER: Yes. Well, it's a troubled transportation system.

MILES O'BRIEN: You might say.

SERWER: I think that's fair to say.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: That's fair to say.

SERWER: Yes.

MILES O'BRIEN: Off the track, perhaps?

SERWER: Yes. Derailed.

Yesterday I'll just begin now . . .

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Certainly a fearless leader. Andy's here with "Minding Your Business." There. Go ahead.

SERWER: Thank you, Soledad.

Yesterday, Amtrak fired its CEO, David Gunn, saying he was not making changes fast enough. Gunn came in with much fan fare in 2002 after running the transit systems in Washington and New York. But Amtrak, as we've mentioned, is a very, very tough job. It has never made any money in its 34-year history.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Protected by Congress each and every year.

SERWER: Protected by Congress. It has a $500 million operating loss this year, a $3.5 billion debt. And as Miles suggested, the White House wanted to split off that high-traffic northeast corridor. Gunn resisted this, saying that the system need to exist in total and for that he was shown the door.

And it's interesting, I think, that when he came in, he was, you know, touted as someone who had great vision. But yesterday the board said that it needed a leader with great vision. So what was it? Senator Frank Lautenberg yesterday was up in arms about this. The northeastern senators, Chuck Schumer, was also very upset about this. Here's Senator Lautenberg with a poster showing that the head of the board, Laney, saying that how what a great leader Gunn was just a few months ago.

MILES O'BRIEN: Terrible visual aid, by the way.

SERWER: Yes.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: I know.

MILES O'BRIEN: His staffer gets no credit for that one. Just budget taxes (ph). Read along with us.

SERWER: Yes, I know.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: It's like old style Power Point.

SERWER: Right. Oh, yes. Well, trust my word on that one.

MILES O'BRIEN: But at the root of it here is, weather to continue subsidizing Amtrak, you know. A there's a lot of people in Congress who would say no.

SERWER: Right. And it came . . .

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: But more who say yes.

SERWER: Bankrupt (ph) consensual thing. And, you know, but it's part of the northeast, you know, and the senators use it and, you know, it's a complicated business. But out west it's not used much at all, obviously.

MILES O'BRIEN: Yes.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: They readdress it each and every year and every year Amtrak goes right through.

SERWER: Yes.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Andy, thank you very much.

SERWER: You're welcome.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Can you believe it's like we're still snacking on Halloween candy and, guess what, it's already Christmas.

SERWER: Yes.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: I mean, we move right practically past Thanksgiving, which we haven't had yet. The annual Rockefeller Center Christmas tree.

SERWER: Here we go.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: There it is.

SERWER: Speaking of trees.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Each and every year, speaking of trees, nine tons, 74 foot Norway spruce brought in from New Jersey.

MILES O'BRIEN: I hate seeing those chopped down.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Why?

MILES O'BRIEN: I really do. It drives me nuts.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: You know, there's a nice story behind this tree.

SERWER: There's more of them out there.

MILES O'BRIEN: Huh?

SERWER: There's more of them out there.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: There's plenty of trees. This was given by a guy named Arnold Racket (ph). He's 73 years old. I'm sorry. He gave it in the memory of his wife, Gloria, who died not long ago. And it broke her heart when he died. And she helped grow this tree. And I think that . . .

MILES O'BRIEN: So he chops it down?

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Chops it down to basically give it as a gift to not just Rockefeller Center but to the world because people come in from all over the world it see this tree. Yes, he killed a tree.

MILES O'BRIEN: I don't know.

SERWER: Not Miles.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Clearly.

SERWER: Miles isn't going to go see it. You're not going to take your kids. You move to New York and (INAUDIBLE).

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: OK, it's a New York tradition.

MILES O'BRIEN: Boycotting the tree.

SERWER: I guess so.

MILES O'BRIEN: Evil tree. Get rid of trees.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Actually, the traffic will make you boycott the tree.

SERWER: That's true.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Because the traffic is so bad.

MILES O'BRIEN: You can't even walk down the sidewalk.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: No. But that's the story of the tree. And I do think it's very it's nice when they (INAUDIBLE).

MILES O'BRIEN: So I'm being a bit of a scrooge aren't I?

SERWER: A bit?

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: That was what I was going to say.

MILES O'BRIEN: We'll talk about those upside down trees later too. They're going to put this one right side up.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Oh, we're not talking about that now?

MILES O'BRIEN: Not now, I don't think.

Oh, we are now. SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: OK, let's talk . . .

MILES O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the upside down tree. Hammacher Schlemmer . . .

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: No, do not adjust your set.

MILES O'BRIEN: You do your entire shopping at Hammacher Schlemmer, right?

SERWER: Yes, I brought a lot at Brookstone (ph), yes.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Guess how much the tree cost, Andy?

SERWER: $200.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: $600 for this tree.

SERWER: You're kidding me. You are kidding.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: It's an upside down tree. Must be, obviously, fake.

SERWER: These are big in Australia, I bet.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: They say . . .

MILES O'BRIEN: I guess they are.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: They can't keep it in stock. It's already sold out, although they don't say how many they sold. Can you believe this.

MILES O'BRIEN: I'm not buying it. I'm not buying it. What, they can't keep it in stock. We have none in stock, right?

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Let me the artificial trees, they say, are hung from the wall or the ceiling and some come with a weighted base to provide extra stability. Oh, come on.

SERWER: I bet they do.

MILES O'BRIEN: Here's the thing. Here's the stick (ph) on it.

SERWER: All right.

MILES O'BRIEN: Ornaments hang better from it, more presents can be surrounded under it and you can put it between two chairs.

SERWER: Yes, right.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Well, then just don't get a tree. I mean it's so stupid.

SERWER: And then you sing snow the through dashing. I mean, what is this? It's crazy. SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: It makes no sense. I actually think this is a hoax, honestly.

SERWER: Oh, yes, that's . . .

MILES O'BRIEN: And here we are, going right into it.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: It doesn't make any sense whatsoever to have more presents under the tree.

SERWER: No, it doesn't. No.

MILES O'BRIEN: I mean Hammacher Schlemmer every year has something that's just incredibly stupid and this is the one.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: And they don't say how many they've sold.

MILES O'BRIEN: This is the thing this year, right?

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: They just say, we can't keep it in stock.

SERWER: Yes, we stocked three of them.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Yes, because we have one and that's and the CEO bought it.

SERWER: Right, complete with a stuffed reindeer. I mean, that's crazy.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: It makes no sense.

MILES O'BRIEN: It's a hoofs up reindeer, though.

SERWER: Yes. Yes. Exactly. There you go.

MILES O'BRIEN: All right. Coming up, the woman at the center of the CBS memo gate controversy. Former "60 Minutes" producer Mary Mapes. She's got a book out. It's an angry book.

SERWER: Interesting.

MILES O'BRIEN: Angry book. We'll ask her about this anger and other matters ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MILES O'BRIEN: A security look-down today in Jordan after the deadliest terrorist bombings ever in that country. Carnage in three hotels, 56 dead. We're live with details on the investigation this morning.

A similar scene overnight in Baghdad. One of the deadliest bombings there in months. Thirty-four killed at a crowded restaurant.

Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, his terror network, claiming responsibility for all those attacks today. Is the U.S. any closer to bringing this terrorist to justice. That story from the Pentagon on this AMERICAN MORNING.

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