Return to Transcripts main page

DIPLOMATIC LICENSE

Current Events at the United Nations

Aired November 11, 2005 - 21:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I try to always have a balanced meal and I never eat junk food. I mean, it's rare. Very rare. Occasionally I'll cheat with a piece of cake.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've been on a diet, because I don't really have a chance to sit down and eat. So I have terrible eating habits. I don't eat at the same time so it certainly adds to it. But I could stand to lose a few pounds myself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People just need to eat healthy balanced meals and move around more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD ROTH, CNN ANCHOR: It's shaping up as the leading enemy of the world, United Nations and you this century, obesity.

Welcome to DIPLOMATIC LICENSE. I'm Richard Roth in New York.

Typically, if we're talking about food on the program, it's Oil for Food. Today, some food for thought on alarming global trends. Did you know that according to the World Health Organization 1 billion people are overweight; at least 300 million people are obese, that's at least 30 pounds over top recommended weight. By the year 2015 it's expected the world will be inhabited by some 1.5 billion overweight people. Make room on that bus.

I remember when I lived in Rome years ago, watching tour buses unload American tourists and being startled by their size. Well, it's not just American pie anymore; 75 percent of women over the age of 30 are considered overweight in Barbados, Egypt, Malta, Mexico, South Africa, Turkey and, yes, let's not forget the United States. And also let's not forget the men; 75 percent of the men in Argentina, Germany, Greece, Kuwait, New Zealand, Samoa and the United Kingdom are overweight.

The expanding waistlines are key factors for cardiovascular disease, the number one cause of death, 17 million people each year. Obesity is also not just a problem in the wealthy developed countries anymore.

Let's open our mouths and ears to explore these weighty issues now. Four guests, four different cities. In Chicago, Kraft Food Executive Vice President for Global Corporate Affairs Mark Berlind; in New Haven Connecticut, Dr. Derek Yach, professor of global health, Yale School of Public Health; in Washington, Mark Nelson with the Grocery Manufacturers Association, Vice President of Scientific and Regulatory Policy; and in London, the home of bangers and mash, Professor Philip Poole-Wilson, former president of the World Heart Federation.

Derek Yach, what's happening? Why are countries that were pretty thin now getting fat? I mean, they say in India even adolescent children are obese.

DEREK YACH, YALE SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Well, we know that obesity basically is an imbalance between taking in too much relative to not expending enough, and on a worldwide basis we've seen dramatic changes in the way people move, their physical activity programs. We've seen them starting to eat foods that they never have eaten before, particularly very energy-dense foods which push up the calories. And we're seeing dramatic changes in life-styles associated with that that overall are leading to these dramatic increases in obesity.

ROTH: And is it the person's responsibility, or are there outside causes?

YACH: Well, I think it's 100 percent the person's responsibility and 100 percent government and everybody else's responsibility. Clearly most of the people in developing countries will not be able to make the healthy choices the easy ones for them without the support of government and without the support of industry as well.

ROTH: Mark Nelson, what is the industry doing about this? Critics say that people in developed countries are now getting pumped in all the great foods that we here in America have enjoyed and gotten fat on.

MARK NELSON, GROCERY MANUFACTURERS ASSOCIATION: Well, Richard, I think that part of that is true, but I think what the food industry is doing to take care of it's share of the responsibility is we have a lot of efforts underway with respect to improving existing products, introducing new products, providing clear, more accurate nutrition information on the packages, and also promoting healthy lifestyles and responsible marketing and exercising.

ROTH: Professor Philip Poole-Wilson, in London, I know recently a lot of squabbling about what kind of meats the kids in schools were eating. They're trying to get rid of the junk food there. What do you see happening on the food horizon?

PHILIP POOLE-WILSON, YALE SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: I think a lot of people have responsibility here, government, industry, communities, media, restaurants and so on.

It's true that this is a balance between energy consumption and energy intake. There are a lot of societal problems here. One of the key ones is poverty, because the wrong foods go to the poor and it's many of the poor who are obese and who then suffer. And the reason, of course, that this is important is not to do with obesity. It's to do with the fact that people are dying early, prematurely, from heart disease, that's heart attacks, and from stroke. And that's the medical problem at the end of this and why there is such a campaign to try and prevent obesity increasing, and diabetes across the world.

ROTH: Why are countries, such as Tonga, Nehru, why are these islanders considered vastly overweight? Nine out of ten people there in those island countries.

YACH: I'm not sure if you're asking why, but very clearly we've seen over the last few decades very high levels of fatty foods. In the case of Tonga, we had the export of mutton flaps with very high levels of fat that the New Zealand folk didn't want to eat and actually were starting to reduce some of their weight. A change, again, to some of these energy- dense foods. A collapse of physical activity and people no longer eating fruit and vegetables, which are often unaffordable on the very islands that are exporting the fruit.

ROTH: Mark Berlind, of Kraft, let's bring you in. In full disclosure, I'm sure I've had your Philadelphia Cream Cheese and your Post bran flakes. But these -- you know, what's the responsibility of a multi- national company? To make profits but also to make sure that the people who are eating your food are not going to be gaining vast amounts of weight over time?

MARK BERLIND, KRAFT FOODS: Well, it's funny, Richard, that you mentioned Kraft Philadelphia Cheese, because people are increasingly concerned about portion control, for example, and in the United Kingdom and in Germany this year we've just introduced little mini-tubs of Filly Cream Cheese, so people can control what they eat and know that they're getting just so much, and consumers have found it very helpful.

But at Kraft, we really do think that we have a responsibility and we have a role to play, so we've been improving our products, introducing new products, adjusting our marketing practices and providing consumers with better information. The key thing that we can do and what we're trying to do is to realize that consumers around the world are increasingly focused on health and wellness and we need to find ways, and the challenge for a company like Kraft is to deliver the better nutritional profiles that they expect together with the great taste and fun and convenience that they continue to demand.

ROTH: Dr. Yach, are governments and companies doing enough? And if not, what should they be doing?

YACH: Well, they clearly aren't doing enough. We've got to put it in perspective. There isn't an example anywhere in the world of obesity levels going down in a large community. That's unlike almost any major public health problem you can think of. So we don't have a best practice and we don't have a great success story anywhere. We have little bits of the evidence.

Clearly when we say what should government do, what should industry do, the first thing is all of them need to acknowledge they're part of the problem. And that we're starting to see on a bigger scale. Many corporations are stepping up to the plate so as to speak. Many governments are acknowledging this is a problem.

Then they need to start saying what can they do, let's say, on the physical activity side. That may be one of the easiest errors, to try to bring back physical activities into the school systems and in the rapidly urbanizing part of the world, make sure that physical activity is the better and the easy option rather than purely the motor vehicle.

On the food side, and for the food companies, again we're starting to see some change, but it's obviously not going fast enough, and we haven't yet seen the impact on populations of trying to get out a message that eat less is a very important message for many people, regardless of whether we're talking about reducing salt, sugar or fat.

Eat less, overall, eat more fruits and vegetables, as a combination, could have a very powerful impact on starting to reduce obesity.

POOLE-WILSON: Governments very largely control the price of vegetables by their taxation system. For example, into Europe, there are taxes on the import of cheap fruit, particularly, say, from Africa. That puts up the cost. And the same argument applies to the food industry. They need to be producing healthy foods, but they've got to be at a price that everyone can afford, and that includes the poor.

I return to my point. Poverty comes into the equation of obesity.

NELSON: Richard, I would just like to add, too, that I think the food industry is providing those healthier foods. I think you see increasing variety, reduced sodium, reduced sugar, reduced fat products. And I think the other thing we need to keep into perspective is this obesity crisis did not occur overnight, so the fact that we're not seeing a reduction anywhere else in the world right now is maybe a little premature. This is not something that is going to be turned around overnight.

BERLIND: I would just add that technology is also increasingly an important part of the equation here. When people talk about affordability, we feel, and one of the things that we're trying to pursue, is to use the proprietary technologies we have to fortify our products in developing countries, so that we can make affordable soft drink mixes, for example, that have the kind of vitamin and mineral supplements that are important to those populations.

ROTH: We'll be back for a second course with our guests, but first I asked a man who has to attend countless official dinners and lunches, the United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan, about more of his global citizens becoming overweight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: We are not in the diet business, but let me say they we are concerned for health reasons and for other reasons. I think one has to eat right, and one should eat right not just in the developed countries but also in the developing countries. And in fact, most of the developing countries have not had this obesity problem and they should not import it by eating and bringing in the wrong types of food and cuisine. I think they should stick to their own local diets, which in some ways has kept them pretty slim and trim.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROTH: Lunchtime. After giving speeches all day, world leaders can work up an appetite. This was the scene at the United Nations last September for the annual Leaders' Lunch. Salmon, lamb, chocolate desert.

We're talking about obesity and the looming nightmare for citizens around the world, a big health crisis.

Professor Poole-Wilson, in London, what's happened with processed foods and the makeup of food? I mean, there's been a dramatic jump now. Processed food sales now count for 3/4 of the total world food sales.

POOLE-WILSON: Yes, I think that's partly because of the different way we live. I'll bet those helpings of salmon, lamb and desert were far too big.

YACH: We've got to be constantly vigilant of whether promises made be industry are in fact implemented and we've heard a lot of promises. We need to know whether they're really going to make a difference. We need governments to actually implement what they say they're going to do, whether it's on the fruit and vegetable side or whether it's on the side of protecting children and returning the school environment to being a healthy, wholesome place for people to play and eat.

Many of these things are not particularly complicated to do, but they take quite a lot of political capital and quite a lot of organization and support.

ROTH: Mark Nelson?

NELSON: I would just like to add that it's more than just promises. There actually are products on the shelves that have improved nutritional profiles, that have different packaging sizes to help people control their portions. We are seeing increased efforts on promotions for healthy lifestyles, engagement with agencies, such as Professor Poole-Wilson was talking about, organizations to advance healthier lifestyle messages. And, importantly, starting out with kids at a younger age, when they're developing their habits.

GMA and its member companies, for example, in the United States, have been very supportive of making sure that the recent "My Pyramid" dietary guidelines in the United States have been presented to school children through the "Weekly Reader" magazine that they receive, both in English and in Spanish.

ROTH: What about the fact that all these supermarkets are now owned by big corporate giants, Walmart, Carrefour, in these countries, and thus fewer options and you're going to get certain types of food delivered to the people through supermarket chains.

YACH: Richard, I would say that we're at a very important time, and bracing the supermarkets is critical. We've seen double-digit growth in supermarket expansion in China, India, much of Latin America, and the two sectors that are growing the fastest, on the one hand, the fruit, vegetable and some of the fresh produce, and on the other hand the snacks and sodas.

The question is how we can get the balance right so that the healthier part of the business grows and supermarkets do well and companies do well.

ROTH: Mark Nelson, your response.

NELSON: Well, I can't speak on behalf of the supermarkets, but I would agree with Dr. Yach that in order to address the issue, the supermarkets do need to be providing a good selection of products for folks to make healthy choices and make healthy decisions.

ROTH: Mark Berlind, with Kraft, I mean, let's face it. There are good items on the shelves, the companies are doing things, but the public will always stroll down the aisle and say I'm going to have this one little diet item, but I'm also going to have five bags of this because of this because I just chose one diet item.

Have you found in focus groups where you put consumers behind those hidden windows that there is any hope for changing the way they judge food?

BERLIND: We absolutely have, Richard. The bottom line on what consumers want, in our opinion, is that they want more choices and they want them all the time and they want them to taste great and they want them to have better nutrition.

ROTH: They say that.

BERLIND: They say it and they also buy it. Our Better For You products, the products in our portfolio that have the better nutritional profiles, have been growing in the last couple years at a rate three to four times faster than our other products. So there is a good win-win scenario here, which is a good business opportunity for food companies, like Kraft, for the grocery stores that carry the products, to respond to consumers' desires for better tasting products that have good nutrition.

ROTH: Professor Poole-Wilson, do I want to see the lovely Philadelphia Cream Cheese, though, in Namibia? Even though it may be a fine product, is it squeezing out cultural local products? It is contributing to the problem? Or that's just the way globalization is going?

POOLE-WILSON: I think you're completely missing the point. Those aren't the solutions across the world. There are big societal problems, mothers and fathers now go out to work, they need quick meals, they need to feed their children quickly, and that's all right for people with a reasonable bank account. They can go to the shops and buy these products and they're probably wise enough to be informed and to choose.

But the problem is, across the world, people who are poorer, they're not so well informed, whatever these companies say, and it's organizations like the World Heart Federation that need to look after them and tell them the truth. They need cheap vegetables. They need to be presented cleanly and nicely, cheaply be available, so they can get them home, give them to their children, give them to their children when they go to school.

It's I think rather a more radical approach than just putting some new food in the market and thinking that will be the end of it. It won't. It's a much bigger problem and more complex than that.

BERLIND: It's not an either/or scenario, I would say. Clearly fruits and vegetables are an important, very important part of a balanced diet, and we need to find ways to promote the consumption of fruits and vegetables and also make available to people snacks and meat and other kinds of products that they are going to want to consume, even as they try to get healthier.

YACH: You know, Richard, I think there is one myth we always have to be careful of, and that is many of the food companies will say they're only providing what consumers want and demand, and that may certainly be the case in the advanced industrialized countries. But in a place like China, where they would have never seen a Taco Bell Pizza, or they would not have seen many of the burgers or many of the Lunchables, they're being introduced to it in a place where the level of government attention to education and literacy is still not adequate and where there is an aspiration to eat something new and different and certainly very tasty, which may very well be having a negative impact on diet.

And in that scenario of particularly the rapidly emerging economies, the food companies certainly need to work more carefully with many of the NGOs to make sure that the right messages get back, get out, that certainly one doesn't want to deprive people of eating some of the more tasty processed foods, but you want to do it in a way in which they make the healthy choices the ones that are affordable to them, particularly in the lowest socioeconomic groups.

ROTH: Mark Nelson, your response?

NELSON: I would agree that we do need to make sure that the message going forward in those developing markets is one of balance, choice and selection. But very importantly that people need to understand, have the information, in order to make good healthy choices.

POOLE-WILSON: Can I just take the discussion a little bit away from industry? There are some other key issues here. One would be that restaurants should serve smaller helpings. I am always amazed how big the helpings are in America. I'm quite a large fellow, but my goodness, those helpings really are a bit of a task.

The other is to go back to what I think Derek said right in the beginning, exercise. That is the responsibility of governments, schools, parents, and we need to be promoting exercise and activity, encouraging games, sports fields and so on, and get those children out and active.

ROTH: OK. We'll have to put a halt to the portion side of this edition of DIPLOMATIC LICENSE. Four views on the issue of globesity.

Upper left, from the city of Chicago, Mark Berlind, Global Corporate Affairs, Kraft Foods; upper right, Dr. Derek Yach, global health expert at the Yale School of Public Health; lower right is Professor Poole-Wilson of World Heart Federation, former president; and lower left on your screen is Mark Nelson, Vice President of Scientific and Regulatory Policy at the Grocery Manufacturers Association.

All of these men have distinguished backgrounds and titles much longer than we could list here. Thank you all.

The World Health Organization says it's wrong to have the attitude that everyone has to die of sometime. The reality is the end does not have to come prematurely. Nevertheless, the U.N. Chief Kofi Annan seemed accepting of fate when I asked about fat and now bird flu. What's next?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNAN: In the end, we're all dead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Colleagues, the food is ready. If you don't take your seats, it will become cold.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: That's Greece's ambassador, sounding like a maitre d' running the Security Council and getting impatient as ambassadors were late. Or perhaps they made a reservation at the table and failed to show up. Other diners would like permanent non-reservation seats there.

In the interest of full disclosure, I battled a weight problem due to medicines, stress and a devotion to pasta of any kind. We've been lecturing you during the program, but I have also been scolded myself.

Back in March, when I was eating a lot because I hibernate with bears for the winter, I received this email: "Hi there from Italy, RR. You need to go on a diet. Under your chin there is a mass. It makes you look patrician. Worse, it tinkers with your health. Please get on a diet. Thank you. Cordially, Anthony St. John, Calenzano, Italy."

Some weeks I wonder why we give out our email address. But Anthony is right, though he is making me think of a slice of Calenzano or a slice of chicken parm.

You can email us at Diplomatic.License@CNN.com.

United Nations employees tired of the cafeteria or the same faces in the dining room can go off campus for lunch, but be careful, diplomats, you might find yourselves seated next to reports. That's what happened to former U.N. political affairs official Kieran Prendergast.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

I'm sorry that you didn't make it for the opening statement, Benny (ph). However, for those of you who weren't at the same restaurant as us, he asked me the same set of questions I think last week when we were at adjoining tables in Limpero (ph), an excellent restaurant into the city, which I hope will give me a future discount for advertising it. And I told him and I will repeat now, although he wrote to the contrary in the "New York Sun," that I am not campaigning for any position and that nothing is decided.

That's right, I don't eat desert at lunchtime, nor do I drink wine at lunchtime, but if anyone wants to give me a very expensive evening meal, I drink wine and I eat desert in the evenings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: Deserts are diet killers. I will accept, though, blueberry pie from any viewer.

That's DIPLOMATIC LICENSE. I'm Richard Roth, in New York. Your next meal is coming right up, along with the latest CNN weather and news.

END

TO ORDER VIDEOTAPES AND TRANSCRIPTS OF CNN INTERNATIONAL PROGRAMMING, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE THE SECURE ONLINE ORDER FROM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com