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American Morning

Investigations into Jordan Terror Attacks; Rove's Role in the CIA Leak Case

Aired November 11, 2005 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Outrage growing in Jordan over this week's terrorist bombings. More demonstrations this morning. Has al Qaeda gone too far and now sparked a Muslim backlash? We're live in Amman ahead.
President Bush is launching a new Iraq offensive, not against insurgents, but against Democrats. A major speech is just hours away. We're going to preview that.

And did Samuel Alito break a judicial promise he made 15 years ago? The Supreme Court nominee is trying to avert a serious controversy on this AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Miles O'Brien.

S. O'BRIEN: Good morning, everybody, and welcome.

And we celebrate Veterans Day today, with gazillions of children out of school, as we remember those...

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, lots of kids out of school and if you know a veteran, give him a call and tell him thank you.

This is the Vietnam Veterans Memorial, of course, on the Mall in Washington, which is a moving place. And if you haven't been there and you're ever in that part of the world, we invite you to go there, because it is a place to pause and remember tremendous sacrifices made by young men and some women in the course of the Vietnam War to make it possible for us to be here today.

S. O'BRIEN: Always a good family trip, frankly.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: Because there's a lot discussion spurred after a look at that.

M. O'BRIEN: It is. It is. It's important that people know, that kids know.

S. O'BRIEN: There are other stories on this Veterans Day.

Let's get to some of those.

Carol has those this morning -- good morning.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.

Good morning to all of you.

It was hush-hush due to security concerns. The U.S. secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, making a surprise visit to Iraq. Secretary Rice landed in Mosul this morning, where she met with the troops. She's also meeting with Iraqi and U.S. military officials in Baghdad.

Part of her message -- to urge all Iraqis to participate in December's legislative elections. She'll visit Saudi Arabia, Israel and the West Bank during her tour of the Middle East.

President Bush says he will answer some tough questions this afternoon like did his administration twist intelligence so we could invade Iraq? The president will also talk about that before -- the president will talk about that, rather, before veterans and military families at an Army depot in Pennsylvania. He's also expected to talk about the war on terror, with all the latest violence in Jordan.

CNN will have live coverage of the president's speech from Pennsylvania. That'll come your way at noon Eastern.

Lawmakers say foreign terror suspects should not be allowed to challenge their detentions in U.S. courts. The Senate passed a provision on Thursday denying detainees at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba the right to file lawsuits in U.S. courts claiming unlawful detention. This despite a ruling by the Supreme Court last year giving prisoners the right to do just that.

The measure does allow detainees to appeal their enemy combatant status, but only once.

Uncle Sam wants you and a lot of young men and women said yes. Recruiting numbers are up for the U.S. Army. For the fifth straight month the Army has met its monthly recruiting goal. In October, the Army had more than 4,900 sign-ups, exceeding its goal by 5 percent. The National Guard and the Army Reserve also met their monthly targets. The Army missed its overall recruiting goal for the 2005 fiscal year, however, which ended in September.

And if you wear a birth control patch, you'd better listen to this. The FDA is warning you, you may be at a higher risk for serious side effects. Officials say the Ortho Evra patch, which delivers hormones directly to the bloodstream, exposes women to about 60 percent more estrogen than birth control pills do. That extra estrogen puts them at an increased risk of developing serious blood clots. So you should talk to your doctor -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Thank you very much, Carol.

Some new information about that suicide bombing in Jordan. It turns out it may have been a husband and wife and two other men, all Iraqis, who carried out those attacks. The claims are posted on a Web site, but the Jordanian foreign minister says they can't confirm it all.

Hala Gorani is outside the Radisson Hotel, one of the three hotels targeted -- Hala, what is the latest from there?

HALA GORANI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The latest is that the deputy prime minister, Marwan Muasher, has said that there have been 12 arrests. He declined to provide the nationalities of those who were arrested, but said that there were Jordanians among them, and also saying that authorities are studying security tapes.

But he did add, though, that there was no indication that there was a fourth suicide bomber.

Meanwhile, of course, there is the human toll associated with this attack, especially here at the Radisson Hotel, where a suicide bomber exploded a belt at a wedding party.

We spoke with the groom at a traditional funeral wake for his father. He said that dozens of his family members were killed.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

GORANI (voice-over): It should have been one of the happiest days of Ashraf Da'As' life -- his wedding day. Instead...

ASHRAF DA'AS, GROOM: It's my family, all of them. We lost 16 people. And my wife's family lost 12 people. And we lost, also, almost 10 people, friends and close friends.

GORANI: That's 38 people, including his father and father-in- law, dead in the suicide explosion at Amman's Radisson Hotel.

Today, at a traditional wake, the groom accepted condolences, friends and family whispering words of comfort. At the hospital, several injured friends and relatives are being treated. The groom's brother, still dazed, recounts the shocking story of a bloodbath.

BACHAR DA'AS, GROOM'S BROTHER: My mom's first cousins, there are seven or eight, they died on the table.

GORANI: As they recover from the massacre, other guests recall how the bomb went off, right before the wedding procession reached the hotel's main hall.

One of the guests, Muhammad (ph), says he fell on the floor and people started trampling him. When he finally fought his way to his feet, he tried to help carry the injured and the dead away from the chaos.

The groom's brother, emotional, says Ashraf Da'As was robbed of his happiness.

B. DA'AS: They were waiting for this day for so long and it was their day. Someone took it from them.

GORANI: In front of the Radisson Hotel, where a day before ambulances rushed to save lives, there is a candlelight vigil -- strangers mourning, sharing the pain of a family united in grief.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

GORANI: All right, and CNN has also spoken to King Abdullah II. My colleague, Brent Sadler, conducting that interview, which we will have for you shortly.

King Abdullah saying that he will catch those who perpetrated these crimes and that he will bring them to justice -- back to you.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, on that vein, Hala, tell us a little bit about these arrests.

Are they apparent accomplices?

GORANI: Well, we don't have any indication exactly as to who was arrested. The deputy prime minister, Marwan Muasher, wouldn't even tell us whether they were Iraqis, as has been the indication, that perhaps those suicide bombers who committed the attacks were Iraqis. He did say that among them there were Jordanians. That's really all we know.

We do know, also, that these security tapes in the hotels were being studied and that perhaps they would be released to the media. But he gave no indication as to when.

So right now the investigation is in its initial stages -- rounding up people who might be able to lead them to those who organized these attacks. Because these attacks need to be organized and planned somewhere. And the presumption among some analysts is that within Jordan, there must be a cell or an organization or some way for these networks and these groups to plan these attacks and carry them through -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Hala Gorani in Amman, thank you -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: The White House is giving itself a little pat on the back this morning, praise from Karl Rove for getting conservative judges appointed. Well, he hasn't made any public comments since the CIA leak report came out.

AMERICAN MORNING'S Bob Franken live for us in Washington this morning -- good morning to you, Bob.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

S. O'BRIEN: What else did Karl Rove have to say last night?

FRANKEN: Well, he certainly didn't talk about the CIA leak investigation and the fact that he still is waiting to find out if he's going to be indicted for questions about his testimony before the grand jury. That's a pending matter, as we know.

But Karl Rove was returning to the world of otherworldly politics and was speaking before a group very sympathetic, the Federalist Society, which is a group of conservative lawyers, a group very, very tight with the Bush administration and Karl Rove.

So Karl Rove, last night, who has an awful lot of adversaries on the other side, this night was speaking to the choir.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARL ROVE, DEPUTY WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: But the judicial activism about which Americans feel most deeply is to be found in our federal courts. For decades, the American people have seen decision after decision after decision that strikes them as fundamentally out of touch with our constitution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRANKEN: And there has been a view that Karl Rove has been distracted by the legal investigation, which might explain some of the missteps in judicial appointments. The message last night from him, Soledad, Karl Rove is back.

S. O'BRIEN: Some questions for Supreme Court justice nominee Samuel Alito.

What are these questions regarding, Bob?

FRANKEN: Not questions about his judicial philosophy, which, of course, are the foundations for what is going to be a very healthy or robust debate when his nomination comes up. These are questions about his ethics, to put it very bluntly, and questions about cases that he participated in which involved, according to his accusers, financial interests that he had, cases involving Vanguard mutual funds and his stockbroker, as well as another one that was for a client of one of his sister's law firms.

In any case, he put out a letter yesterday at the urging of the Senate Judiciary Committee chairman, Republican Arlen Specter, in which Alito said, "To the best of my knowledge, I have not ruled on a case for which I had a legal or ethical obligation to recuse myself during my 15 years on the federal bench."

Now, the question is, Soledad, will this become a major issue or is this going to be a tempest in a teapot?

S. O'BRIEN: Well, we will see.

All right, Bob Franken for us in Washington.

Thanks, Bob.

M. O'BRIEN: Time to check the weather.

Bonnie Schneider at the Weather Center at CNN Center in Atlanta -- good morning, Bonnie.

BONNIE SCHNEIDER, ATS METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Miles.

(WEATHER REPORT) M. O'BRIEN: Coming up on the program, the furious reaction in Jordan to those terror attacks. Jordanians saying Abu Musab al- Zarqawi should burn in hell. Is this the beginning of a backlash against the terror?

S. O'BRIEN: Also this morning, we talk to the president of one of the big oil companies. How does he explain record prices at the pump and record profits for his business?

M. O'BRIEN: And a high school senior becomes a political sensation. The 18-year-old who became the youngest mayor-elect in the country, that's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: Look at this remarkable scene in the streets of Amman, Jordan as people, very spontaneously, rise up and denounce terror in very harsh terms, talking about the death and rotting in hell of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of the group we call al Qaeda in Iraq and who is linked to those hotel bombings, the three hotel bombings where more than 50 died.

The question is, when you look at that scene there, are you seeing the beginning of a very pivotal moment? Is this a turning point in the Middle East? Will -- have the terrorists finally gone so far that there will be a backlash in the Islamic world?

Fawaz Gerges is a professor of international affairs and Middle Eastern studies at Sarah Lawrence College.

He frequently visits us to give us some insight.

And he's out with a new book called "The Far Enemy," which is an excellent, excellent read if you want to understand the nuances of these terrorists.

And one of the points you make in the book is that we here in America see the jihadists, the Islamists, as monolithic, kind of unified.

FAWAZ GERGES, AUTHOR, "THE FAR ENEMY": Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: They aren't unified. There's actually been kind of this civil war there. And to that extent that there is this backlash we see in Jordan right now, it could exploit those divisions and that could be very crucial in trying to win this battle.

GERGES: Yes. Absolutely. I mean I think what's happening since the late 1990s, in particular since 9/11, is that the jihadist universe has been splintered and divided. There is really an intense civil war taking place within that particular universe.

And now, as you know, Miles, I mean the jihadists and al Qaeda are fighting the war in the heart of the Arab and Muslim world.

On the one hand, you tell Arabs and Muslims you are fighting the infidels, the Americans, the crusaders, the Jews. On the other hand, you are killing Arabs and Muslims. You are killing Arabs and Muslims in Saudi Arabia, in Iraq, in Yemen, in Indonesia, in Jordan. And Muslims are beginning to say hey listen, what's happening here?

In this particular sense, I would argue that Arab and Muslim public opinion has already turned against al Qaeda and, in fact, al Qaeda finds itself and it various affiliates find itself in a very, very serious situation.

M. O'BRIEN: So, really, if you put it that way, left to their own devices, a lot of this might implode on itself.

The one factor which changes that, which mitigates against that, is the U.S. presence there.

GERGES: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: Because the U.S. presence unifies these divided groups against the U.S.

GERGES: Yes. The truth is really the best thing that ever happened to al Qaeda and jihadists was the American-led invasion and occupation of Iraq. In fact, in my book, "The Far Enemy: Why Jihad Went Global," I argue that the invasion of Iraq, in fact, gave al Qaeda a new lease on life. It supplied al Qaeda with ammunition, with new recruits. It fueled and bred radicalism and extremism. So in this particular sense, not only you have young men, young Arab and Muslim men who would like to go to Iraq and join the war against the United States, but the war in Iraq now is expanding into neighboring Arab and Muslim countries -- Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and so on.

M. O'BRIEN: So precisely the goals of the war, to stabilize the region and to take the fight to the terrorists so that there won't be attacks here, which we just heard the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff say, Peter Pace just said to that that those goals are not being met in any way. As a matter of fact, just the opposite.

GERGES: In fact, the consensus, Miles, the consensus within the American intelligence community is that Iraq has replaced Afghanistan as a recruiting ground and tool for terrorists. And in this particular sense that you have a two way street now.

On the one hand, our presence, our military presence in Iraq is breeding militancy and extremism, supplying more ammunition and recruits to al Qaeda. And, on the other hand, the Iraq war is being expanded into the rest of the Middle East.

And the question on the table is here, how do you win this particular war?

You win this particular war by completing what I call the internal encirclement of al Qaeda. And how do you complete the internal encirclement of al Qaeda? You want us to provide less ammunition, fewer recruits to al Qaeda and you want us, of course, not to become a major, a major mobilizational point for al Qaeda. M. O'BRIEN: So what should the U.S. do?

GERGES: Well, I think the most important point to realize now is that Arab and Muslim public opinion is turning against al Qaeda, has turned against al Qaeda. Al Qaeda finds itself, it's fighting the war now not against the crusaders and the Jews, in the heart of the Arab and Muslim world. The United States must help Arab and Muslim public civil societies to complete what I call the internal encirclement of al Qaeda. We want to reduce and, in fact, try to find ways to really exit, to really leave Iraq so that Iraq does not become a major supplier of recruits to al Qaeda.

M. O'BRIEN: So out of Iraq the sooner the better?

GERGES: In fact, the sooner the better because really, in many ways, you no longer play into the hands of al Qaeda and its affiliates, like Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

M. O'BRIEN: Fawaz Gerges.

The book is "The Far Enemy."

He is with Sarah Lawrence University.

And the subtitle is "How Terror Went Global."

Thank you very much for your time -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Ahead this morning, one of the youngest mayor-elects in U.S. history, 18-year-old Michael Sessions, is going to join us. Now he's got to juggle city hall and homework, too. We'll ask him how he's going to pull it off, coming up next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: The mayor-elect of Hillsdale, Michigan is riding a wave of national publicity. He is 18-year-old Michael Sessions and he beat the incumbent with a write-in campaign.

His Honor To Be is a high school senior, too, and before taking office, he is on a whirlwind tour of New York, which included an appearance on Thursday on David Letterman's show.

He reads, in fact -- in fact, he read Dave's Top Ten Things About Being An 18-Year-Old Mayor.

Here's the highlights.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "DAVID LETTERMAN SHOW," COURTESY CBS)

DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST: Number three...

MICHAEL SESSIONS, 18 YEARS OLD: School boys now have to deal with the Feds.

LETTERMAN: How does a thing like that work? I don't know.

Number two...

SESSIONS: Only victory speech featuring the word "dude."

LETTERMAN: And the number one good thing about being an 18-year- old mayor...

SESSIONS: It's flattering when President Bush calls me for advice.

LETTERMAN: There you go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN: Oh, Mayor-Elect Sessions joins us now.

You were laughing through that whole thing. That was good timing.

SESSIONS: Yes. It was actually pretty funny.

S. O'BRIEN: Was it fun to do?

SESSIONS: Yes, it was really fun to do it.

S. O'BRIEN: Because you've been on a whirlwind tour and that's got to be pretty exhausting.

SESSIONS: Oh, it is. It's exhausting because...

S. O'BRIEN: Did you ever expect...

SESSIONS: ... my cousin and I got about, I don't know, five hours of sleep. But I think he got two last night.

S. O'BRIEN: So, did you ever expect it? I mean when you were campaigning and hanging out with your neighbors and...

SESSIONS: No.

S. O'BRIEN: ... pitching them on your candidacy?

SESSIONS: In fact, you know, my cousin Jemiah (ph), he's been instrumental in getting, you know, getting these phone calls. We've gotten -- he's gotten about a thousand of them in the past couple of days and he was...

S. O'BRIEN: You have handlers now.

SESSIONS: Well, Jemiah...

S. O'BRIEN: You have an entourage.

SESSIONS: Jemiah is a handler. S. O'BRIEN: Your cousin is your handler.

SESSIONS: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: And you're getting an entourage. Has it been kind of overwhelming?

SESSIONS: Yes, it has.

S. O'BRIEN: You know, at the end of the day, you walked away with a pretty tiny margin, but huge news for a write-in candidate.

SESSIONS: Right. Right.

S. O'BRIEN: You beat the incumbent, who I think is like 51 years old. You just turned 18.

SESSIONS: Right. About four weeks ago.

S. O'BRIEN: Why do you want to be mayor?

SESSIONS: Well, you know, the City of Hillsdale has a long, you know -- they don't run people against other people and there's only one contestant spot out of nine races, I believe, in the City of Hillsdale. And so I thought I want to run for mayor. And I thought this back in May or, you know, January -- like the beginning of 2006. I thought I want to run -- or, excuse me, 2005 -- I want to run for mayor.

S. O'BRIEN: Just to do it? I mean just to be like, OK, I want to get in there because no one's contesting these votes?

SESSIONS: Well, you know, I've all...

S. O'BRIEN: Or do you have, you know, do you have...

SESSIONS: I've always had the interest in politics, in the government and how it works. I was very into the past presidential election. I remember a group of students and I, we went up and seen the Electoral College vote, because we were like 10 votes off of predicting the actual, how the actual election happened.

S. O'BRIEN: So you're a guy who's very into politics.

SESSIONS: Right.

S. O'BRIEN: But now you've got the realities of being a high school senior and being mayor.

SESSIONS: Right.

S. O'BRIEN: Which is going to be juggling a lot.

How are you going to divide it up?

SESSIONS: You know, in the City of Hillsdale, we have a weak mayoral system, which means we have a city manager and the city council. Essentially, what the mayor does is he presides over the city council. So -- and I've said this probably in a lot of interviews that I've done so far, I'll be a student from 7:50 to 2:30, and then I'll work on mayor stuff from 3:00 to 6:00.

S. O'BRIEN: Do you think it's going to be tricky to juggle as you move forward? It's a four year term.

SESSIONS: Right. Right.

S. O'BRIEN: And then you're heading into college.

SESSIONS: Right.

S. O'BRIEN: You know, a lot of your friends might be out partying. You can't do that if you're the mayor.

SESSIONS: Right.

S. O'BRIEN: A lot of pressure now, you know? You can't be -- I can't have shots of you, you know, drinking at the college bar. You're the mayor.

SESSIONS: Well, it should be...

S. O'BRIEN: You can't be hitting on girls, you're the mayor. Come on!

SESSIONS: Well...

S. O'BRIEN: Have you thought about any of that?

SESSIONS: No, not really.

S. O'BRIEN: No?

SESSIONS: I think, you know, my only interest is probably the City of Hillsdale. You know, I've never been a big partier so I wouldn't be out, you know, doing -- partying like the other kids.

S. O'BRIEN: You won't have to worry about any P.R. issues down there?

SESSIONS: Right.

S. O'BRIEN: Any big change you want to make in Hillsdale?

SESSIONS: We've got to revitalize the economy. We have a lot of land in the industrial park, you know, several hundred acres that we need to develop. We're a small community that -- but we're a small community but we have a lot to offer. We have Hillsdale College. You know, we've got a wealth of small business owners that are just incredible, that are probably the nicest people we've ever met. And so the city does have a lot to offer.

S. O'BRIEN: You've got a lot and you've got a lot ahead of you. I'll tell you what we're going to do. We're going to check in with you in 100 days, as we do with the president...

SESSIONS: OK.

S. O'BRIEN: ... you know, see how it's going and give you a little report card on how it's been.

SESSIONS: All right.

S. O'BRIEN: I hope you enjoy your next couple of days in New York City, because it's a fun city. And get your cousin to just hang up on the people when they call.

Enjoy the city a little bit.

SESSIONS: Well, that's what we're trying to do.

S. O'BRIEN: Before you...

SESSIONS: And...

S. O'BRIEN: You don't even want to say.

SESSIONS: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: I want to talk to your cousin.

Nice to meet you.

SESSIONS: All right, thank you.

S. O'BRIEN: Congratulations on your victory.

SESSIONS: Thank you.

S. O'BRIEN: Michael Sessions, the mayor-elect of Hillsdale, Michigan -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Doogie (ph) has it from there.

All right, congratulations, Mr. Mayor.

Good luck.

And, you know, you can still have a little -- a few parties. Just a few.

SESSIONS: Just -- yes.

S. O'BRIEN: Hey, he's got the work of the people now, Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Oh, that's right. That's right.

S. O'BRIEN: Back off, man.

M. O'BRIEN: OK.

Coming up, we're going to talk about the levee system in New Orleans. Just about everybody there would like one that can stand up to a category five storm. It seems logical, right? Does Washington agree, though?

That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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