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American Morning

The Next Attack; Tennessee's 'Dorothy'

Aired November 17, 2005 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: A question on our minds this morning as Washington continues to debate back and forth, prewar intelligence, what Congress knew, when it knew it, what the president knew, when he knew it. Other questions about the larger issue of whether the United States is winning the war on terror. There's a new book out. It's called "The Next Attack: The Failure of the War on Terror and a Strategy for Getting It Right." And as you can tell by the subtitle, the author has an answer the question as to whether we're winning the war. The answer, no.
Coauthor Daniel Benjamin joining us here. Good to have with us.

DANIEL BENJAMIN, AUTHOR, "THE NEXT ATTACK": Thanks for having me.

M. O'BRIEN: We haven't had an attack since 9/11. No attacks since 9/11. Isn't that prima-facie evidence we are, in fact, at least winning one front on the war on terror.

BENJAMIN: Well, it's good news, but remember, at the same time, we've lost more than 2,000 people in Iraq, where many of them are fighting jihadist, and where the jihadist view that as a victory and a boasting point that they're using to convert more to their cause.

M. O'BRIEN: Of course the administration, the president, vice president and others, secretary of defense, will tell you, taking the battle to Iraq, has, in fact, prevented an attack on the homeland.

So by that measure is it a success?

BENJAMIN: Well, there's no measure that it has been the reason there hasn't been an attack here. We've had attacks in London, Madrid. We just had one in Amman, where the jihad from Iraq appears to be spilling over. More attacks in Southeast Asia, several in Sinai (ph).

We would argue that it's really a matter of time until there's another attack in the United States. And remember, they save the biggest attacks for the United States, and feel that they always must surpass their last effort.

M. O'BRIEN: Which, of course, sets the bar very high or very low, depending on which way you look at it.

BENJAMIN: Very high.

M. O'BRIEN: Is the rational your understanding or your feeling the reason we haven't seen an attack because it's something so big it's taking that much time?

BENJAMIN: Well, it's certainly part of the reason, and this is something that many people in the intelligence community believe, that because of Al Qaeda's insistence on perfection and on catastrophic attacks, specifically for the United States, they're going to take a while longer.

It's also true that Al Qaeda itself, the Al Qaeda attacks on 9/11, had been degraded. So that's another reason.

M. O'BRIEN: Let's listen to the president for a moment as he talks about some of the successes, as he views them, in the war on terror.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've captured or killed several of Bin Laden's most serious deputies. Al Qaeda manages operatives in more than 24 countries. The mastermind of the USS Cole bombing, who was chief of Al Qaeda's operation in the Persian Gulf, a mastermind of the bombings in Zarqawi and Bali, a senior Zarqawi terrorist planning attacks in Turkey and many other senior leaders in Saudi Arabia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

M. O'BRIEN: One by one, they're getting some of these terror leaders. Is that the way to win this war?

BENJAMIN: Well, you certainly have to do that, and that's all good news. But the problem is, at the same time we're catching them, we're creating more than we can possibly catch. In fact, Secretary Rumsfeld asked a while ago, is this a case in which the harder we work, the behinder we get. And We believe that is, in fact, the case. There appears to be a great deal of radicalization going on. We're seeing lots more people join the jihadist movement in Europe, in the Middle East, and this is a huge cause for worry.

M. O'BRIEN: Now you worked on the National Security Council staff during the Clinton administration.

BENJAMIN: That's correct.

M. O'BRIEN: Full-and-fair disclosure there. And there were many opportunities during the Clinton administration when it was known Bin Laden was a threat to the U.S., didn't have a 9/11, but we certainly knew he was gunning for us. There were opportunities to go after Bin Laden.

We have, you know, the infamous, or famous, Predator images, unmanned-drone images of Bin Laden, opportunities where he could have been taken out. Is it fair to focus, like that picture there, focus strictly on the Bush administration, when, in fact, the previous administration shares some blame in this as well?

BENJAMIN: Well, in our previous book, "The Age of (INAUDIBLE)," we did focus on the last administration. It's important to note we didn't have an armed Predator to take the shot until the Bush administration, and, in fact, the Bush administration was still debating whether or not to use that five days before the 9/11 attacks.

M. O'BRIEN: But there were other opportunities. There were no less than three distinct opportunities, enumerated in the 9/11 Commission Report, where the Clinton administration could have taken an opportunity to take out Bin Laden?

BENJAMIN: And we never had enough intelligence to take that shot. There's no question, it would have been great if we had invaded Afghanistan, but there was no political support. This is not just about what the Bush administration has done wrong; this is also about the evolution of the threats since 9/11.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, so final thought here. I'm asking you to boil down a thoughtful book into about 30 seconds.

BENJAMIN: Sure.

M. O'BRIEN: But give us a sense of what should be done as you see it?

BENJAMIN: Well, first of all, we've got to stop confirming our enemy's argument, and that is that America seeks to occupy Muslim countries and destroy Islam. By being in Iraq, we confirm and letting them recruit because of that. We will need to get out of Iraq, we need to do a better job on the Middle East-peace process, we do need to tap down regional conflicts in Kashmir, and Chechnya that are churning out fighters who are going to come after us.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, well, I don't think anybody would disagree with any of those things. It's all how you do them. That's not an easy thing to accomplish. Unfortunately, we don't have time to get through every bit of that. The book, once again, is the next attack, the subtitle, "The Failure of the War on Terror and a Strategy for Getting It Right." The author is Daniel Benjamin, actually coauthor. Thanks for being with us -- Soledad.

BENJAMIN: Thanks for having me.

Well, in Tennessee this morning, people are cleaning up from those tornadoes that ripped through the state on Wednesday. And you saw CNN's Rick Sanchez reporting from the scene of completely demolished home, you remember this, and he was telling us about a young girl, a teenager, who crawled out of the wreckage.

Well, now, Rick's had a chance to track her down and hear her story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You might say Jessica Dover, bumps, bruises, scratches and all, is a real-life Dorothy, from "The Wizard of Oz."

JESSICA DOVER, TENNESSEE'S "DOROTHY": The first time I heard the tornado and everything, I thought I was going to die.

SANCHEZ: She's not in Kansas, but in Tennessee, where the tornado ripped through town and literally picked up Jessica's mobile home while she was still there, all alone.

DOVER: And the next thing I knew, I was in the living room, and I heard the tornado and everything, and I don't know.

SANCHEZ: It's hard to know, when everything seems to be spinning.

(on camera): Jessica's story becomes even more perilous when you consider where her home was actually situated. Not only did winds from the tornado up and move it, but then because she was on a hill, it started whirling down the hill. That debris down there is what's left of Jessica's home. This was the foundation. This is where it started out.

The trailer starts rolling down the hill, what do you do?

DOVER: I prayed.

SANCHEZ: Prayed for what?

DOVER: My life.

SANCHEZ (voice-over): With tears in his eyes, her granddad says he also prayed. Some would say those prayers were answered when Jessica emerged from what was left of the home that tumbled for 200 feet.

DAVID DOVER SR., JESSICA'S GRANDFATHER: She told me, granddaddy, I'm happy. She said I lived through this. And she says, as strange as it may seem, I'm happy.

SANCHEZ: A happy ending, just like the one in the movie, with a little girl surrounded by family she thought she'd never see again.

Rick Sanchez, CNN, Palmyra, Tennessee.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

S. O'BRIEN: Poor little girl. Wow. What an amazing story.

M. O'BRIEN: That is a story to tell. I mean, I hate to say, I keep thinking of "The Wizard of Oz" and the house kind of spinning around, but that's the real life scenario here that happened here.

S. O'BRIEN: And that one ended happily, too.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, it did ultimately. There's no place like home, they say.

Check out this. There's no place like -- you got be careful where you park your car in Florida sometimes. Every now and again, the Earth in Florida gets hungry and opens and tries to swallow up a car. This is a 15-foot sinkhole. I think there was a water main that broke in the area. And...

S. O'BRIEN: Well, you have all these pipes under the streets. And what happens is the pipes are obviously old, they start deteriorating, and so then when they collapse, they bring down the street that was built above them, bring the street down, too. We saw this a lot in Northern California. There was almost -- you could almost describe it as a slew of these sink holes. And it's the most amazing thing to see in person, because the ground just gives way and sucks in any vehicle that's there.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, a lot of times it happens in Florida. You kind of have that sandy, loamy soil, too, and it -- you know, depending on how the water is irrigated and so forth can make these places where it just collapses.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: OK.

S. O'BRIEN: The driver is OK, we should say.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, I think's the car's an issue.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, the car is not OK.

M. O'BRIEN: Might have to do some work on the car.

(WEATHER REPORT)

S. O'BRIEN: A reminder, next week on AMERICAN MORNING is our week of giving. And if you were affected by this season's hurricanes and if you want to thank somebody who helped you, you can send us your story. Go to CNN.com/am. We're going to post some of the responses on our Web site, and some of the people will be selected to share their stories right here on AMERICAN MORNING.

M. O'BRIEN: Still to come on the program, new details about the health of Cuban President Fidel Castro. One of the rumors that goes around -- you remember that fall. Oh, gosh, I hate seeing that. He was hurt pretty bad. He broke something if I recall, I forget, wrist or something. But does he have Parkinson's Disease?

S. O'BRIEN: The CIA thinks so.

M. O'BRIEN: We'll get to the bottom of that, or try to at least.

S. O'BRIEN: Also, Delta wants $325 million back from its pilots. There might be a showdown in court. What's it all going to do to your travel plans? Andy is "Minding Your Business," just ahead as we continue on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: The latest U.S. intelligence suggests that Cuban President Fidel Castro's health is failing. The reports say he might be suffering from Parkinson's Disease. CNN Havana bureau chief Lucia Newman has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LUCIA NEWMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Few heads of state have been the target of so many death-and-health rumors as Cuba's Fidel Castro, probably because no one else has been in power that long. Eight years ago, after disappearing from view for weeks, Castro reappeared looking thin and gaunt, but defiant, insisting on speaking even under the pouring rain.

The imperialists can say goodbye to their hopes, he said, referring to widespread rumors he died. In the last decade, speculation about his health has increased, especially after his highly publicized fainting spell making a speech under the blazing sun.

More recently there was his dramatic fall while walking off stage. Some, including now the CIA, claim he suffers Parkinson's Disease. Others say he's had several strokes and has prostate cancer. None of these has ever been confirmed.

As for Castro, he relishes taunting his enemies about his health. As he did a few weeks ago on an interview with former soccer star turned TV talk show host David Armondo Maragono (ph).

Look at this, a pulse rate of 64. How unfortunate. I must be on the verge of a stroke, he joked, boasting he had ideal blood pressure.

Castro watchers point out he's not only slower and stiffer than in the past, but also at times looks exhausted, and speaks with difficulty.

On the other hand, even now, he continues to break records for making nonstop speeches. For one, two, three, up to seven hours with an energy men much younger would envy. All the talk about his help is understandable, considering Castro has been in power for almost half a century. His designated successor is his brother, Defense Minister Raul Castro, but he's only five years younger.

(on camera): So while every day there's more speculation, only Fidel Castro's tightest inner circle really knows the truth about how he's doing, and the reason is very simple, like so many other things in this country, the state of the president's health is a state secret.

Lucia Newman, CNN, Havana.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

S. O'BRIEN: People have been talking about Castro's health for about as long as he...

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Since the 1960s.

S. O'BRIEN: Exactly. M. O'BRIEN: Since we were sending him those exploding cigars. We've been very curious about his health.

S. O'BRIEN: Trying to figure out what's going to happen, absolutely.

Let's talk business now. Andy, what's happening this morning?

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Well, we're going to find out about the Delta Airlines bankruptcy judge, and why she has both the company and the pilots' union up in arms. Will the union strike? Stay tuned to AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Delta, poor old Delta. Geez. And...

S. O'BRIEN: Bad to worse, really.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes. It asking the pilots to sort of, you know, they want to rip up the contract, right.

SERWER: Three hundred million dollars back, they want to get from the pilots. And now they're in court, they're in front of Judge Prudence Carter Beatty. And this was -- yesterday was the airline's turn to talk to her.

And basically, she said things that got both the pilots and the company upset. First of all, she said to the company, she said, I think you're throwing darts at the pilots because they're smaller than you are and you think you can stomp on them. Wow.

(CROSSTALK)

SERWER: However, that's on the one hand. Now, on the other hand, the pilots want her taken off the case. Because previously she said that pilots wages were, quote, "hideously high." And she said what's really weird is that anyone agreed to pay them that much money to begin with. I think they've got a live one there.

(CROSSTALK)

M. O'BRIEN: Prudence, she sounds great.

SERWER: She really has got it going on down there.

M. O'BRIEN: Can we get her as a guest?

S. O'BRIEN: Very quotable, certainly.

M. O'BRIEN: Can we book her? Let's get her on.

SERWER: Well, it's interesting, the pilots make $169,000 a year on average, Delta pilots. I wonder what the judge makes. And, of course, if there is a possibility of a strike -- and I don't want to be inflammatory here, because that would be a big deal. We're coming up on Thanksgiving and, of course, the holidays. Talk about wreaking some serious havoc. And, of course, it could really...

M. O'BRIEN: Well, say good night, Irene. Say good night, Irene. It's Eastern Airlines all over again.

SERWER: It could mean the end of Delta.

M. O'BRIEN: Murder-suicide is the...

SERWER: And I think they'll work very hard -- exactly, murder- suicide. I think they'll work very hard to not have that happen. But it sounds like they're going to have a lot of fun with the judge down there, don't you think?

S. O'BRIEN: Wow, yes. She certainly -- certainly very quotable.

SERWER: Interesting. We want to talk about Delphi, another company under the gun, also in Chapter 11. Get this. The company wants the union basically to reduce its job force by one-third. Two- thirds, excuse me. By two-thirds. They want to remain -- they want to cut...

M. O'BRIEN: So one-third remains.

SERWER: Listen, they want -- exactly. Thank you, Miles. I could barely get that out, because it's so amazing.

S. O'BRIEN: We're following you.

SERWER: They want to cut 24,000 jobs out of 34,000.

S. O'BRIEN: Oh, my gosh.

SERWER: And they want to cut wages from $27 an hour to $12 an hour.

M. O'BRIEN: And meanwhile, in the executive suite...

SERWER: Obviously, the union is saying, we're just not going to even discuss this. And if this continues down this line, we're going to go on strike, which is really hurting G.M. And that's why G.M.'s stock is...

M. O'BRIEN: But the executives are getting all kinds of sweet deals to stay on board at Delphi.

SERWER: Well, they're not part of the union.

M. O'BRIEN: Oh, there you go.

S. O'BRIEN: Oh, really? Interesting.

M. O'BRIEN: Speaking of unions...

S. O'BRIEN: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: What age did you become unionized? S. O'BRIEN: With your spouse.

SERWER: Let's see, early 30s.

M. O'BRIEN: Early 30s.

S. O'BRIEN: Thirty.

M. O'BRIEN: I was a few days short of my 30th birthday. So we were all statistically...

SERWER: We're all in trouble.

S. O'BRIEN: Did you this study? The odds for a happy marriage favor those who tied the knot between 23 and 27, which sounds really young to me.

M. O'BRIEN: This is coming out of University of Texas, a sociology professor by the...

SERWER: So it's better if you marry then.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes. You have a better chance for a happy marriage if you're married between the age of 23 and 27. Ergo...

M. O'BRIEN: We are like, rolling. We are rolling in happiness.

SERWER: Honey...

M. O'BRIEN: Here's my favorite part of it, though: 88 percent of the respondents, 88 percent, said marriage should be a life-long commitment. So it makes me ask.

S. O'BRIEN: Does the other...

M. O'BRIEN: The 12 percent that said marriage...

S. O'BRIEN: Eh, not so much.

SERWER: I'm thinking about getting divorced at age 45?

M. O'BRIEN: A couple months, couple weeks. Maybe they shouldn't...

SERWER: Maybe 43, maybe 35?

S. O'BRIEN: They do point out it's a 15 minute survey of 1,500 people, which is not exactly...

SERWER: Not scientific?

S. O'BRIEN: ... demographically, scientifically relevant.

SERWER: But that is, in fact, my attention span, so it probably would work. SERWER: Well, I mean, it is true, though. You can see getting married earlier is probably a positive thing because you as you get older, you tend to get more rigid, more set in your ways.

S. O'BRIEN: Picky.

SERWER: Quirkier, even, right?

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, and those are things that are charming and I love them in my husband.

SERWER: I was disguising Brad, wasn't I?

S. O'BRIEN: I know you weren't describing your wife.

SERWER: No, no, no. Nothing like that at all.

M. O'BRIEN: You know, we're headed for marriage counseling.

(CROSSTALK)

M. O'BRIEN: So just ahead on the program, Vice President Cheney lashing out at Democrats over criticism of the Iraq war. The president backing him up. More on that story, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: President Bush in South Korea this morning. His message to the North: no nukes will be tolerated. We're live with the president.

Strong words from the vice president as well. His blasting of critics of the war of Iraq, what he and how Democrats are responding. A live report there as well.

And FEMA says out of money, leaving countless hurricane victims to fend for themselves on this AMERICAN MORNING.

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