Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

War of Words; Alito TV Ads; Trimming the Pork?

Aired November 17, 2005 - 08:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: President Bush in South Korea this morning. His message to the north: no nukes will be tolerated. We're live with the president.
Strong words from the vice president as well. His blasting of critics of the war in Iraq, what he said and how Democrats are responding. A live report there as well.

And FEMA says out of money, leaving countless hurricane victims to fend for themselves on this AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Miles O'Brien.

Good morning to you. We're glad you're with us. The issue of prewar intelligence, the run-up to the Iraq war, continues to rage very hot in Washington and 7,000 miles away. The president also dealing with it as well.

He's on a trip. Normally presidents are given (INAUDIBLE) when they're on a trip relating to foreign policy issues. Not this time.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: No, certainly not. The White House would say we're setting the record straight, but certainly the debate rages on.

The president and the vice president on opposite sides of the world, but speaking with one voice as they blast their critics on the decision to go to war.

White House Correspondent Susan Malveaux is traveling with the president in South Korea. She's live this morning in Busan.

And, you know, Suzanne, every moment we talk to you the wind is even -- you look like you're in a wind tunnel. It's windy there.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. I think we just missed a typhoon that was coming this way.

But Soledad, of course, the political storm brewing as well. President Bush is not avoiding this at all. And he's been faced with that critical question about prewar intelligence. But the president, as well as the vice president, both of them very much prepared for the answers here. It is all a part of the very aggressive campaign by the White House.

They say they are setting the record straight. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX (voice over): President Bush touring South Korea's oldest Buddhist temple, 7,000 miles away from home but not out of reach from his political troubles. Earlier in the day, appearing with South Korea's president for an Asian trade summit, Mr. Bush jumped at the chance to answer Democratic criticism that the White House deliberately used misleading intelligence to go to war with Iraq.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is serious business winning this war. But it's irresponsible to do what they've done. So I agree with the Vice President.

MALVEAUX: The vice president, just hours earlier in Washington, let loose on the Democrats.

RICHARD CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And the suggestion that's been made by some U.S. senators that the president of the United States or any member of this administration purposely misled the American people on prewar intelligence is one of the most dishonest and reprehensible charges ever aired in this city.

(APPLAUSE)

MALVEAUX: Cheney has kept a relatively low profile since the indictment of his chief of staff, Scooter Libby, in the CIA leak case. Now he's assuming a job he had during the presidential elections, stinging the opposition with the sharpest of words.

SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MINORITY LEADER: Unfortunately, he brought his brunt (ph) mentality with him to the speech. He's repeating the same tired attacks we've heard from administrative officials over the last two weeks.

MALVEAUX: The White House campaign-style offensive has been criticized by Republican Senator Chuck Hagel. The Vietnam veteran says questioning the government is not unpatriotic.

But the president draws a distinction.

BUSH: Listen, it's patriotic as heck to disagree with the president. It doesn't bother me. What bothers me is when people are irresponsibly using their positions and playing politics.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: And Soledad, of course all of this comes at a time when the president is trying to build up, bolster his credibility on the world stage. Tomorrow is when the APEC summit begins. He'll be meeting with some 20 leaders or so to talk about global trade issues, and then it's on to China, of course. A big meeting with Hu Jintao to talk about reforming the economy and the market there -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: And the focus, Suzanne, was not all domestic politics. The president had some very harsh words for North Korea. What do you think all of that means for the future talks? MALVEAUX: Well, they've been saying that essentially the six- party talks, they don't think they're going to get very far when it comes to this round of meetings. They just had the last round before.

We saw some and actually heard some words from North Korea, some promises, saying that they in fact would dismantle or abandon their nuclear weapons program. President Bush making it very clear the United States is not offering any incentives, economic or otherwise, until they see some real verifiable steps -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Suzanne Malveaux is traveling with the president, and apparently not -- not too far from a typhoon, because it is windy where she is today.

Thanks, Suzanne. Appreciate the update.

MALVEAUX: This is true.

S. O'BRIEN: Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Like some of our hurricane coverage there for a moment.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, really.

M. O'BRIEN: Republicans and Democrats also squaring off over Supreme Court nominee Samuel Alito. Today, both sides are taking their case to TV, some ad campaigns to roll out.

CNN's Ed Henry live from the Hill for us.

Ed, tell us about the ads.

ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, Miles.

Conservatives hitting the airwaves today, trying to define Judge Alito based on his credentials, saying he's so enormously well qualified in their eyes, that liberals are resorting on attacks on ideological grounds to try to define him as an extremist. And sure enough, liberal groups, of course, as well coming out today with some ads of their own, hard-hitting ads using this 1985 memo we've heard so much about to, in fact, try to paint Judge Alito as out of the mainstream, this 1985 memo when he was a young lawyer seeking a promotion in the Justice Department, of course.

Judge Alito was basically saying he believes the Constitution does not guarantee the right to an abortion. These liberal ads dovetail exactly with what Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid was saying yesterday on the Senate floor, really took the gloves off, hard-hitting floor speech in which he said he basically has significant concerns about this nomination.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MINORITY LEADER: We don't have to guess whether Judge Alito's description of himself in that memo would predict what kind of judge he would be. For the past 15 years, Judge Alito has been one of the most conservative judges in the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY: Senator Reid also saying that's why the champagne corks were being popped by conservative groups after Harriet Miers got dumped in favor of Judge Alito. A much different take, though, from a key moderate Republican.

Senator Olympia Snowe of Maine, who supports abortion rights, met with Alito, asked him about that 1985 memo yesterday. She came out sounding relatively satisfied. She still wants more answers down the road, it's early in the process, but she basically seemed relatively satisfied with his answer that his personal views have not clouded his judgment as a judge and that basically, regardless of where he personally stands on abortion, he respects precedent, a signal that he would probably not try to overturn Roe v. Wade -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Let's shift gears here, Ed Henry. Let's talk pork for just a moment.

Let's Google in to Ketchikan, Alaska, home of the infamous now bridge to nowhere. There you see it highlighted in red there. That's a quarter-billion-dollar bridge.

HENRY: That's right.

M. O'BRIEN: And here's the thing. Congress is in uproar over this, but the money has still been earmarked for Alaska. It's just not specifically earmarked for that project, right?

HENRY: That's right.

M. O'BRIEN: Explain that one.

HENRY: Basically, a $229 million bridge, as you said, is basically serving only 50 residents on this island who already have a ferry ride that can take them back and forth from Ketchikan to this island. And it's interesting, Republican Senator Tom Coburn, who was targeting this project, figured out that based on those 50 residents, it would be basically about $4.5 million per resident, enough to buy each one of them a Learjet.

So you're right, Congress finally stripped out the $229 million earmark, saying the money can't go to that bridge to nowhere, as it's now called. But in a kind of strange compromise, Congress is still writing basically a blank check of $229 million to the state of Alaska to spend as they see fit.

They can spend it on the bridge to nowhere, they can spend it on other transportation needs. That's why a lot of critics are saying this is not saving a dime of taxpayer money. And as you know, there's a second bridge near Anchorage over $200 million away. That's named after Republican Congressman Don Young.

That earmark also taken out, but again, the $209 million still being sent to the state of Alaska. Federal taxpayers not saving a dime -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: So taxpayers not saving a dime, and they still get the bridge if they want it, right?

HENRY: If they want it. Now, it seems that based on this public uproar all around the country, the state of Alaska seems unlikely, according to even supporters of the bridge to nowhere at this point, it's unlikely Alaska will still build these two bridges.

They'll probably spend it on other state transportation needs. But the bottom line is, all of this talk about spending cuts, at the end of the day the money is still being spent.

M. O'BRIEN: Maybe they'll build a subway in Ketchikan. Who knows.

HENRY: We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

(LAUGHTER)

M. O'BRIEN: That's very nicely done. Ed Henry on Capitol Hill.

Let's check the headlines now. Kelly Wallace here with that.

I don't think they need a subway in Ketchikan -- no.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: I don't think so. Not exactly. But we'll be watching it.

M. O'BRIEN: We will, yes.

WALLACE: All right. Thanks, Miles.

And we're beginning now with some news just in to CNN. An Amber Alert has been issued for a missing girl in Florida. The 17-year-old girl named Dialis Ramos (ph) may be with a convicted sex offender. Authorities are now searching for her.

She may be with 39-year-old Robert Laird (ph). And we'll keep you posted on any updates on this story as we get them.

Turning now overseas to Iraq. U.S. military officials calling it one of the mission's toughest days.

At least five U.S. Marines were killed in a massive firefight on Wednesday. This is all part of the ongoing operation called Steel Curtain, which is taking place in Iraq near the Syrian border. To date, more than 2,000 American troops have died in Iraq, and this translates to about three Americans killed every day.

News about the Patriot Act. It is being renewed but there will be some changes. The FBI won't have as many subpoena powers, and the Justice Department will have to fully report requests when it tries to get information regarding ordinary citizens. Congress could vote on the revised act this week.

It seems FEMA has run out of money. The government agency has run out of funds to cover flood insurance claims. So for the time being, payments are on hold for thousands of policyholders. The Senate is expected to bring up the issue today.

Former Hollywood madam -- excuse me -- Heidi Fleiss is doing, you could say, what she knows best. Fleiss says she is bound for a brothel in southern Nevada, where she'll help run a resort that caters to women. The idea, apparently, is for women to pay $250 an hour for a male companion, but there's a possible problem here. Fleiss was convicted of running a prostitution ring back in 1995, which means she may now be banned from the legal sex industry in that state.

And speaking of sexy things, how about sexy men? Well, here's "People" magazine's choice.

The magazine has named Matthew McConaughey the sexiest man alive. The 36-year-old actor is the 20th man to get the honor. Mel Gibson got it first back in 1985. This issue hits newsstands tomorrow.

Miles, I know. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

M. O'BRIEN: I'm going to be Susan Lucci of this one.

WALLACE: Next year. There's next year.

S. O'BRIEN: Kelly and I vote for you each and every year, Miles.

WALLACE: We sure do.

S. O'BRIEN: I don't know what's happening.

WALLACE: What were those judges thinking, Soledad?

M. O'BRIEN: You know what I should do? I mean, it worked for Matthew. Naked bongo drumming. Didn't he get arrested for that?

S. O'BRIEN: Yes. Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: Well?

S. O'BRIEN: I'm not sure that's the only reason he won.

M. O'BRIEN: Oh, it isn't? Oh.

WALLACE: I think there were some other factors involved.

S. O'BRIEN: There might be other -- fine acting, how he looks. You know, that too. Right. All that.

Next year, Miles. Next year's your year. I'm feeling it.

You know, for the folks in Tennessee, it's a day to clean up. For the folks here in the Northeast, it's a day to bundle up. Jacqui Jeras has a look at all of the weather for us.

(WEATHER REPORT)

S. O'BRIEN: A reminder. Next week on AMERICAN MORNING it's the week of giving here. And if you were affected by the season's hurricanes, and if you want to thank somebody who helped you, you can send us your story.

Just go to CNN.com/AM. We're going to post responses on our Web site, and then some folks will be selected to share their stories right here with us on AMERICAN MORNING.

M. O'BRIEN: Still to come, more on the vice president last night blasting critics of the Iraq war. It was a tough speech. Is the comment too much for some Republicans, maybe?

S. O'BRIEN: Also, more and more convicts are breaking out of jail. Or does it just seem that way. We're going to check in with a former prison guard and find out what he thinks ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: The vice president of the United States last night in a speech very tough on Democrats. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The president and I cannot prevent certain politicians from losing their memory or their backbone, but we're not going to sit by and let them rewrite history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

M. O'BRIEN: Ouch. How does he really feel?

Chief National Correspondent John King joining us live from Washington.

Of course the subject matter here is prewar intelligence. And the notion that Democrats are putting out there, that the White House either cherry picked intelligence, co-opted intelligence, withheld certain things. In other words, cooked the books to make the case for going to war.

This is a story with reverberations. It's got legs, as we say.

Why is it -- why is it picking up steam right now, John?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's picking up steam right now for a number of fronts.

Number one, we're having two debates about the war right now. And the Democrats are essentially trying to outflank the president on both ends. One, a debate about an exit strategy, how do you get out of Iraq. And now the still debate about how we went to war and whether the president cooked the books or hyped the intelligence, if you will.

The Democrats are feeling their oats at the moment, to put it simply. They think they have the president back on his heels.

The vice president is trying to change that dynamic. Very, very tough language here, Miles.

It is an interesting question, because it's not just about prewar intelligence. One of the pillars of the Bush political strength, whether you voted for him or not, has been that the American people have viewed him consistently as honest, somebody with integrity, somebody who's a straight shooter. If you can undermine the fact that the president is trustworthy and a straight shooter, you're undermining much more than his Iraq policy.

M. O'BRIEN: You're very much at the foundation when you go to that very issue.

Tuesday, you were substituting for Wolf on THE SITUATION ROOM. Dianne Feinstein on. I know you remember this. I'm just going to share it with viewers.

She said this: "It's very clear and it should be clear to everybody the president has access, the White House owns intelligence. They have access to unfinished intelligence. We do not. We have no idea what the president is briefed on every morning at his briefs."

And this is the real crux of the issue, because Republicans say, Democrats, you had the same information we had when you voted to authorize troops to invade Iraq.

How are we going to figure out what is the real truth here? Because we're dealing, after all, with intelligence.

KING: We are. And there's a continuing investigation. They have fought about the rules and the pace of that investigation in the Senate Intelligence Committee. And different members of Congress get different briefings.

Those on the intelligence committee who have the highest clearance get a bit more intelligence than some of the rank and file members. But there is that debate. And it is -- both sides are trying to shave the truth a bit, if you will, which happens in politics. I'm not trying to cast any blame.

The president does get a much thicker dossier of intelligence than the administration. In many cases, does have a say in exactly what goes to Congress.

That's one of the reasons the Bush administration now in this campaign-style counterattack is not only saying that the members of Congress who voted to go to war in Iraq, the Democrats like John Kerry, like others who are criticizing the administration now, not only do they see the intelligence, but they're going back and quoting former President Clinton, former Vice President Gore, former national security adviser in the Clinton administration, Sandy Berger. They are saying those who saw it all also share the opinion that Saddam Hussein was a threat.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, it's very -- it's fascinating to see campaign- like rhetoric with the president 7,000 miles away on an important foreign trip. In many respects, it's unprecedented on a couple of fronts.

KING: It is. And just throw out the old rule that politics stops at the water's edge.

To have a debate about the president's foreign policy and to have a debate so personal and so political about the president's foreign policy not only when he is out of the country, but when he is three countries that have troops in Iraq, is quite extraordinary.

And there's another question about this, too, Miles. Is the vice president a good messenger in that debate?

There's all this talk about is his influence undermining the administration? And inside the White House they say of course not, they say that is preposterous. But there are those who question, even in the administration, question the vice president's viability, if you will, as a messenger on this front.

Remember, he was the one who took the darkest view of the intelligence, talking about Saddam Hussein trying to get nuclear weapons. We know now that was not true. And he's also the one who said the insurgency was in its final throes. Democrats rushed to the Senate floor last night and said, essentially, explain that comment in the wake of 10 American deaths in just the last 24 hours.

M. O'BRIEN: We're waiting for an explanation on a lot of fronts, on both sides. CNN's Chief National Correspondent John King. Thanks.

KING: Thank you, Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Well, you know, a prison break in Iowa this week is just one of what seems to be a slew in just the last few months. Is there an uptick in breakouts? We're going to get into that with a former guard who used to work at Sing Sing.

First, though, a question for you. Just how many prisoners tried to escape from Alcatraz before that was closed in 1963? Was it 36 prisoners, 14 prisoners, or was it zero prisoners who tried to escape from Alcatraz. The answer is just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: It seems like there has almost been a slew of escapes from prison lately. Take a look at this guy, Charles Victor Thompson. He escaped from Texas. He turned up drunk in Shreveport, Louisiana. He practically walked out of his cell.

Then you have Zachary Arabie and Stephen Ridge. They escaped from Louisiana. They were found hanging out with co-eds at the University of Tennessee.

Today the hunt is on for Martin Moon and Robert Legendre. They're on the run in Iowa, and police are looking for them now.

Is it a rash indeed? Let's talk to Ted Conover. He's the author of "Newjack: Guarding Sing Sing." And he used to be a prison guard, and he now is a journalist.

Nice to see you. Thanks for talking with us.

TED CONOVER, AUTHOR, "NEWJACK: GUARDING SING SING": Thanks, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: I find this story so fascinating, because, I mean, the ones I've listed, that's just in the past couple of months.

CONOVER: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: Is it a rash, do you think?

CONOVER: Well, these thing do seem to go in cycles. I don't think there's any rational explanation behind it, but there certainly have been a lot lately.

S. O'BRIEN: Why -- is it getting easier for people to get out of prison? I mean, get out in the way of, like, tunneling out?

CONOVER: I don't think so. You know, there's been a huge growth in the American prison population and the number of prisons in the last 25 years. And for a while people wondered if that's a problem.

You know, we're not quite on top of procedures at all these new places. But I think it's kind of coincidental all this is happening at once.

S. O'BRIEN: Let's walk through some of these stories, because they're pretty bizarre.

This guy, Charles Victor Thompson, he's on death row in Texas, a state that is known for being tough on its prisoners. And he literally walks out the door.

CONOVER: I think Texas is also known for pretty many escapes for whatever reason. And his case is quite interesting.

It follows one pattern of escapes where a prisoner somehow waits until they're away from their cell on another errand, they're going to court, they're going to the hospital. They're out of the usual protective apparatus.

S. O'BRIEN: Moments of opportunity and they take it.

CONOVER: Exactly. And they make their move there.

S. O'BRIEN: He got caught.

CONOVER: Yes, like a lot of prisoners, he impersonated somebody else. Some impersonate a guard. There were inmates at Sing Sing who actually read my book and tried to impersonate a guard to escape from Sing Sing.

He impersonated someone from the attorney general's office. He altered his own I.D., and he got past five checkpoints and walked -- walked right out.

S. O'BRIEN: Very clever. I mean, but also clever, but also not a whole heck of a lot to lose.

Also, on the category of clever, these guys, Stephen Ridge and Zachary Arabie, these are the two that we were talking about, ended up at the University of Tennessee dating co-eds.

CONOVER: Well, you've got to hand it to them. These guys didn't waste any time.

S. O'BRIEN: They made the most of their opportunity out, I guess.

CONOVER: Now, you've got a problem when you escape from prison. Who are you? How are you going to explain yourself. Where are you going to hang out?

And actually, a college is quite an inspired idea for that, because colleges have people who don't fit into the normal -- you know, you can be shaggy or whatever, and maybe get by in a college. So that's one of the better ones I've heard.

S. O'BRIEN: Brian Nichols, who escaped from his custody in Atlanta and then ended up being arrested and charged with killing four people, he still hasn't been convicted yet. But he is in the news lately because he was found try hatch an escape plan with another convict.

CONOVER: Yes. I actually wasn't surprised that he's trying to hatch another escape plan, because I think a lot of prisoners spend a lot of time trying to hatch escape plans.

Where I worked at Sing Sing, you know, everybody who works in a prison is locked in like the prisoners. And I found myself thinking, how would I get out of here if I had to. And then I had an idea for how to do it.

And one day I asked a prisoner, I said, "How would you get out of here if you had to?" This is a guy I thought I was on a good relationship with. And he looked at me like I'd asked about the most private secret of his life.

He said, "You can't ask me about that."

I said, "Oh, I'm sorry. So you've been thinking about it, huh?"

S. O'BRIEN: He had a plan.

CONOVER: Definitely. I think what else do you have to do in there but figure out how to leave?

S. O'BRIEN: They were annoyed with you when you published your book with a map of Sing Sing.

CONOVER: Well, prison systems tend to treat maps of the facilities like national secrets. And when you're in training at Sing Sing, it's outside the prison so you don't make the mistake of taking a map into the prison. But I don't really think it's maps that are the reason prisoners escape.

It's prison staff slacking off. Because most prison jobs are kind of boring. Day after day, you do the same thing. You look at the same view out of your tower. Same prisoners.

S. O'BRIEN: And you have nothing to lose in a lot of cases.

CONOVER: Well...

S. O'BRIEN: These guys, a lot of them have nothing to lose.

CONOVER: That's right. The guards, they'll have a hard time staying on point because a lot of prison work is very dull.

S. O'BRIEN: Ted Conover, your book's called "Newjack: Guarding Sing Sing." Thanks for talking with us.

CONOVER: Thanks, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: It's really fascinating.

Oh, we also want to get to this question we asked you before the break. How many prisoners tried to escape from Alcatraz before it closed in 1963? The choices were 36 or 14 or 0.

Oh, Ted, you were right.

Ted weighed in. He guessed 36, and that is right. Answer A. Over the 29 years. That's the federal prison, operated, 36 men, including two who tried to escape twice, were involved in 14 separate escape attempts.

Twenty-three of them were caught. Six were shot and killed during their escape. And two others drowned.

The remaining five, if you add that up, five remaining, are listed as missing and presumed drowned, meaning officially nobody ever succeeded in escaping from Alcatraz -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: But we can't say it for certain. You just never know. Still to come, they may seem a little like little old ladies, but not so fast. They are grandmas with a cause. Their story is ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com