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CNN Live Sunday

Gunner Takes Hostages Inside Tacoma Mall; China Promises Further Crackdowns of Piracy

Aired November 20, 2005 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: We're going to stay right on top of this breaking news story out of Tacoma, Washington. This mall about four miles away from downtown Tacoma.
Right now we've got Nicole Sanchez, one of our affiliate reporters hopefully on the scene right now. Nicole, where are you? And what are you looking at?

NICOLE SANCHEZ, TACOMA, WASHINGTON: Carol, we're on the south side of the mall. Let me step out for a second so you can see all of that police activity going on by the food court where about 12:15 is where we hear these shots were originally fired.

We've have got some video -- we'll go ahead and show you -- that we've put together of the scene here. We are told by police it looks like the suspect had an assault rifle, four to six people were taken to hospital. At this point, they do not confirm that anyone has died from these injuries.

There is a negotiation team in there right now. The suspect has apparently hunkered down in the Sam Goodie store, is what we're being told, with two to three hostages. No word at all on how those hostages are, if they've been shot or affected.

But right now -- there had been some talk -- one of our photographers had been told by police to evacuate just the mall parking lot because of a suspicious package. But both PIOs representing Tacoma Police as well as the sheriff's department for Pierce County says that is not confirmed and they had actually not heard that. So, we want to pass that information along to you.

LIN: Do you have any idea what the motive is in this shooting?

SANCHEZ: Absolutely no motive that we've heard of just yet. I can tell you a little story of a witness I talked to who sounds like he was right there where it happened and saw a lady go down who very well may be one of the victims. And I said, you know, what happened next?

He said, just everybody started running out.

And in fact, I said, you know, did anybody stop to help her? He said, no, you know, the guy with the gun is right there. We have heard anywhere from several shots, six to eight. One lady swear she heard 20. So, that's what we know about that. LIN: All right. And the rest of the mall has been evacuated, is that right? Or just the parking lot? Are there still shoppers inside other than the hostages?

SANCHEZ: Police believe most of the shoppers were able to get out. There may be some employees that are hunkering down in dressing rooms and hiding out right now. But the negotiation team, we're told, is working on that both by the phone and also some in the mall.

We can tell you, we were seeing just a little bit ago about 50 to 100 people standing along this other side of the street. Media at one point had been led into the parking lot right by the mall but, as I told you, one of our photographers, when it got kind of chaotic, had said, you got to get out of here. They thought somebody saw a suspicious package at this point. Both PIOs say no.

LIN: So, is it that the negotiating team is near the hostages and the gunman or even with him right now?

SANCHEZ: Yeah. I can't tell you how close they are. The PIOs -- I said, are actually inside? They said yes. They're kind of working on it on two different levels over the phone and also inside the mall. But we don't know just how close they are. And we don't know, again, if those hostages have been hurt or not.

LIN: And again, Nicole, what did you say, two to three hostages right now?

SANCHEZ: Two to three hostages. That's what we believe. We believe the original shots were fired, everybody we talked to said it was in the food court. And one of our photographers had even talked to a person who sold cell phones. And at one point he said he believe the suspect came up to him, lifted his trenchcoat and showed him a rifle.

Witnesses had thought it was an AK-47 just because of the way it sounded. Police say they can at least confirm that it's an assault rifle.

LIN: Nicole Sanchez, thank you so much for the latest breaking news from the Tacoma Mall.

We are staying on top of that story throughout the night. So stay with us. We are going to bring you fresh video. And anybody who is on the scene who can tell us exactly what's happening. But a gunman inside the Tacoma Mall right now with two to three hostages. They are hunkered down in the Sam Goody store. And hostage negotiating teams are in contact with this gunman. So, we're going to bring you the latest as soon as we get it.

And this just in to CNN. It is possible, just possible that abu Musab al Zarqawi is among the dead after a U.S. assault in Iraq yesterday. Our reporting matches what the Associated Press is reporting. But in the past few minutes National Security Agency officials tell CNN that these are treating these reports as highly unlikely and not credible. But this is what we do know. The U.S. military is in the process of trying to identify the dead to determine if al Zarqawi is among the bodies. Eight suspected al Qaeda members died in a gunfight with U.S. forces. We are working to bring you the latest on this story so stay with us as well on this one.

Abu Musab al Zarqawi is the leader of al Qaeda in Iraq and responsibility for the beheadings of at least three Americans.

Now, right now, President Bush is making history tonight when he heads to Mongolia. The first sitting U.S. president to visit that country.

In China, the agenda included talks on trade and social reform. But even in the Far East, Iraq is on center stage.

CNN's Dana Bash is traveling with the president right now.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In China for intense talks, the president dove into the debate back in Washington over Iraq. Unsolicited, he called an influential Democrat who wants U.s. troops home from Iraq a good man but wrong.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know the decision to call for immediate withdrawal of our troops by Congressman Murtha was done in a careful and thoughtful way. I disagree with his position.

BASH: A noticeably toned down response compared to a White House statement just days earlier linking hawkish Congressman John Murtha to liberal filmmaker Michael Moore.

Growing doubts back home about Iraq have distracted Mr. Bush throughout Asia as he tries to focus on monumental issues in this region, especially in China.

The president spent Sunday morning at church in Beijing, one of five sanctioned and censored by the communist government. A move used to press China's leaders for more religious freedom.

BUSH: My hope is that the government of China will not fear that Christians who gather to worship openly.

BASH: Later, Mr. Bush took the call to broaden rights for China's 1.3 billion people to its leader, President Hu Jintao. But with reports of a pre-Bush visit crackdown on dissidents, the secretary of state expressed dismay.

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: We've certainly not seen the progress that we would expect. And I think we'll have to keep working on it.

BASH: The president spent much of his talks pouring over economic differences with the Chinese powerhouse puts the U.S. at a huge disadvantage. He won no concessions from China on it's undervalued currency or the expected $200 billion trade deficit. Bush aides did report some promises from China's premier about another major issue: piracy.

(on camera): Counterfeit products sold freely in markets like in Beijing and exported around the world are estimated to cost Americans 750,000 jobs and U.S. businesses $250 billion a year.

(voice-over): Experts say that China makes the bulk of pirated copyrighted material.

After a series of tense talks, the president shed his suit for a pair of shorts.

BUSH: How do you say take it easy on the old man?

BASH: And met up with six Chinese Olympic hopefuls, a little time-out for his favorite sport.

BUSH: Just getting warmed up.

BASH: Dana Bash, CNN, Beijing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Now, Pentagon officials are flatly denying report that they rejected requests for more troops in Iraq. And the secretary of defense told CNN today that over time people will see that the right decisions are being made.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: What I see is progress being made on the political side. I see progress being made with the Iraqi security forces. And I think that it's fine to have this debate. It is important to have the discussion. But when we look back a year from now, we'll see that progress was, in fact, made.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Well, there may be progress on the ground, but there is also a lot of violence. Iraq's president said he is ready to talk with opposition leaders, even with members of Saddam Hussein's outlawed Baath Party. But meanwhile troops and civilians came under attack today.

Nic Robertson has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, one British soldier was killed in the southern town of Basra when a roadside bomb went off as his patrol was passing. Four other British soldiers wounded in that attack. Basra has generally been relatively quiet in the south of Iraq.

To the west of Iraq today in the town of Haditha, one U.S. marine was killed when a roadside bomb went off near his convoy. Fifteen Iraqi civilians were also killed in that blast. It appears as if the insurgents have also laid an ambush. Just as the roadside bomb went off, they started shooting at the marine convoy. There was an exchange of gunfire. And according to U.S. military, eight Iraqi insurgents -- or eight insurgents were killed in that exchange of gunfire, one was wounded and managed to try and flee the scene.

Roadside bombs also causing casualties in Baghdad. One roadside bomb went off killing a child, wounding five Iraqi civilians in the area. Another bomb -- roadside bomb again wounding five Iraqi civilians who were in the area.

And a task force Baghdad soldier -- a U.S. soldier -- killed in small arms gunfire just north of Baghdad. An Iraqi police major, the target of an assassination in the south of Baghdad this morning. He was driving his car about 9:00 a.m. in the morning, his own private car wearing civilian clothes. He wasn't in uniform, gunned down by unknown assassins.

And on the eastern side of Baghdad early this morning, three bodies were discovered. Their hands had been bound. They'd been shot in the head.

Nic Robertson, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: I want to keep you up to date on the breaking news, the developing story out of Tacoma, Washington. A gunman opened fire in the Tacoma Mall about four miles from downtown Tacoma. There are hostages being held inside a Sam Goody store.

We just heard from reporter Nicole Sanchez a short time ago that the gunman was described by eyewitnesses as holding an assault rifle type weapon.

There is a negotiating team inside that shopping center right now, but six people were wounded. CNN is reporting that at least one of those people is in critical condition.

A hostage negotiating team inside as the mall. People were pouring out of this mall as the bullets began to fly.

According to the Associated Press, which apparently called the Sam Goody store inside, an employee, identifying himself as Joe Hudson to the Associated Press said we are being held hostage. And he said little else on the telephone. But he could be heard telling others that he was talking to the Associated Press. And then he hung up.

So negotiations under way at the Tacoma Mall. Let us hope that these hostages remain safe. Nicole Sanchez reporting that two to three hostages being held right now by an armed gunman.

In the meantime, we want to bring you the latest on the spread of the bird flu. If it's the deadly virus indeed. And what government officials are going to be doing to stop it in its tracks.

Well, United Nations has come up with a plan. U.n. Officials have outlined a global warning system to slow the spread of bird flu. The United Nations will be tracking migrating birds and local leaders can then warn people living near places where the birds land.

Earlier today a top infectious disease expert said it will take time for a bird flu vaccine to become widely available.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: We do have a vaccine that was developed from the virus that was isolated from the Vietnamese patient about a year-and-a-half ago. At the NIH, we've been in clinical trials with this H5N1 vaccine. It is shown to be safe and shown to be able to induce an immune response that would be predictive of being protective. We're doing the studies in individuals who are healthy. We're moving to elderly.

The critical issue and this is the constraining issues, is we don't have the vaccine production capacity at this time to make enough vaccine for the people who might need it. That is really the problem.

(END VIDEO CILIP)

LIN: So health experts are searching for any edge they can find in the battle against bird flu. And they are asking for help from people who work with wildlife animals every day. Here's CNN's Gary Nuremberg.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY NUREMBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With the deadly bird flu now blamed for dozens of deaths in Asia, American health officials said Sunday the United States isn't prepared to protect its citizens from a widespread outbreak.

MICHAEL LEAVITT, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: It will be three to five years before we have vaccine manufacturing capacity to deliver 300 million courses of a pandemic flu vaccine. We simply lack the capacity to do it as rapidly as necessary.

NUREMBERG (on camera): That makes essential early detection of flu that could potentially cause a pandemic. And some scientists believe that great places for early detection are American zoos.

DR. DOMINIC TRAVIS, VETERINARY EPIDEMIOLOGIST: The fairy blue bird it's actually an Asian bird that lives in the range that influenza is in right now.

NUREMBERG (voice-over): Dominic Travis is trying to coordinate national efforts from Chicago's Lincoln Park Zoo.

TRAVIS: Zoos are actually incredibly well suited for that. Because to be a good sentinel you need to have a stationary population of susceptible animals. And you have to have the infrastructure and the resources to watch the health of those animals.

NUREMBERG: The Department of Agriculture also watches animals closely and thinks zoo guidelines issued Friday for bird flu detection could be helpful.

DR. JOHN CLIFFORD, U.S. DEPT. OF AGRICULTURE: It's a very excellent and go step in the right direction that would tie in well with the national pandemic plan.

NUREMBERG: Local authorities sprayed to prevent West Nile Virus several years ago after zoos helped detect that disease. Those protocols for quickly notifying human health authorities are already in place.

TRAVIS: It is not to scare you, but it is a little scary.

NUREMBERG: The bird flu hasn't yet developed the ability to spread consistently from human to human in a way that could cause a pandemic. But that remains a possibility. A reason health officials want to know immediately if it reaches the United States.

TRAVIS: The point is by implementing good surveillance, you have a chance at early detection. And therefore a chance at early response. And therefore the best possibility of minimizing the impact of it if it's introduced.

NUREMBERG: And now if it is introduced, zoos may well be the first places to find out.

Gary Nuremberg, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Stay right with us because we'er going to have more, new details about a hostage situation at a Tacoma, Washington shopping mall. A man opens fire, six people are wounded, one critically.

And a story of extreme survival. A rescued snowboarder talks to me from his hospital bed about how he survived three days in the mountains.

Plus, why hundreds of people are rallying outside a state prison on behalf of a notorious killer. And did Texas execute an innocent man? Details on that story 12 years in the making.

Also, a new "CNN PRESENTS." You just saw the promotion for that. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Fresh pictures in now from a breaking news story in Tacoma, Washington. You're watching firefighters in a rescue operation here. One of six people who were wounded when a gunman went into the Tacoma Mall and opened fire. Eyewitnesses tell a reporter on the scene that he was carrying an assault rifle.

One of the six people shot is in critical condition. And now hostages, anywhere up to three hostages, are being held right now in the Sam Goody store inside that mall. Negotiators are on the scene. We are going to bring you the latest as soon as we hear exactly what is happening inside there. We wanted to show you some more pictures.

And this is so sad. A tragic shooting of this 18-year-old Philadelphia man. Terrell Pew was a single dad going to school and working nights to raise his daughter. The August 29 issue of "People" magazine recognized Pew as an outstanding father. The hunt for the killer goes on.

And new doubts about the guilt of a man executed in Texas for murder. Rubin Cantu was convicted of killing a man during a 1984 attempted robbery. Well, today's "Houston Chronicle" reports the only witness to the crime has recanted. A co-defendant tells the paper he allowed his friend to be falsely accused under police pressure. But now that man is dead.

Well, the killer behind bars in Northern California is asking for clemency. Stanley "Tookie" Williams is scheduled to die in three weeks. Now, he killed four people. But he's also written books and changed lives with his personal story and was even nominated for a Nobel prize. CNN's Kareen Wynter reports from San Quentin.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAREEN WYNTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From behind the walls of California's maximum security San Quentin prison, an infamous death row inmate speaks.

STANLEY WILLIAMS, DEATH ROW INMATE: Today and forever more, I can honestly say to all of you and to the world that the war within me is over. I am triumphant.

WYNTER: This precorded message by Crypts co-founder Stanley "Tookie" Williams played for hundreds of supporters who held a vigil outside the prison, a fight to save his life before December 13: his execution date.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice is not revenge and the government needs to know that.

WYNTER: Behind this powerful push came a famous voice: rapper and former Crips member, Snoop Dogg who urged California governor Arnold Schwarzenegger to grant clemency.

SNOOP DOGG, RAPPER: You have to understand that this is not just a publicity stunt, there's real people out here. I see people of all walks, all ages, all sizes, all colors. It don't matter. We're all about one thing, humanity man, this is about keeping this man alive.

WYNTER: Williams was convicted in 1981 of robbing and killing four people. But this former gang leader turned peace advocate isn't your average death row inmate. Williams wrote several children's books behind bars, denouncing gang violence. And was even nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize.

A retired L.A. County police sergeant who spent decades in the gang unit says Williams deserves the death penalty.

WESLEY MCBRIDE, RETIRED GANG INVESTIGATOR: His crime partners testified against him and other people that he bragged to about the crime testified against him. I think they have a pretty solid conviction. You kill four people, then you pay the price.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Stanley Tookie.

JAMIE FOXX, ACTOR: It's Tookie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tookie.

WYNTER: Like the title of this made-for-TV movie portraying his life, Stanley "Tookie" Williams is now looking for redemption. But for a man who spent the last 24 years on death row reflecting, time is now against him.

Kareen Wynter, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Doing whatever it takes to see the mission through. You are going to meet a hero who survived an ambush in Iraq when we go on the frontlines, next.

And later, if you're traveling this holiday season, you're bound to endure some intense security. We're watching your security straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Every week we like to bring you the more personal stories from the front lines of war. And today we're going to bring you the story of a wounded American officer, honored for his heroic acts in a firefight in Mosul.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPA HOLLAND, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Colonel James Kaufman joined the army in 1972. He served in various infantry and special forces assignments around the world before heading to Iraq in December of 2003.

After nearly a year in Iraq, Kaufman was called to help an Iraqi commando platoon under attack at a police station in Mosul.

COL. JAMES KAUFMAN, U.S. ARMY: When we closed within about 100 meters of the police station we came under very heavy attack from RPGs, heavy machine guns which forced us to deploy from the vehicles and take up whatever defensive fighting positions that we could in the area.

About an hour into the fight, I was wounded in my left hand. So I was forced to use my other hand to shoot, which is not my dominant hand. HOLLAND: Within that first hour, all but one of the Iraqi commandos were wounded. Kaufman encouraged the remaining troops to continue to fight. They went on until help arrived several hours later.

KAUFMAN: We also got some air support at that time. And we were able to start putting some rocket fire into the positions of the insurgents. A striker quick reaction force arrived on the scene able to guide them into position. And at that time the fighting pretty well was under control.

HOLLAND: On August 24, 2004, Colonel James Kaufman was awarded the distinguished service cross for his extraordinary courage and heroism during this battle.

KAUFMAN: What was going through my mind was that you just can't give up. You can't stop. You know, if you have to go to pulling a knife out, whatever it takes to win.

HOLLAND: And to this American hero, his commitment to other soldiers is just as important.

KAUFMAN: I would trade that medal in today if it could bring back those soldiers that died next to me.

HOLLAND: Phillipa Holland, CNN

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: And we are bringing you more from the mall shooting in Washington. A gunman is still on the loose, at least six people are wounded. The mall is still in police lockdown. The latest from the chaotic scene, next.

Plus, the death toll of U.S. troops continues to rise after a bloody week in Iraq. Carlos Watson joins me live to talk about these casualties and what they may mean for President Bush, but it's a "Fresh Take."

And more on the status of wanted terrorist Abu Musab al Zarqawi, next. You're watching CNN LIVE SUNDAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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