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CNN Live Sunday

Natural Resources Defense Council Found Dangerously High Levels of Mold Particles in Air in Flooded Areas of New Orleans. Exhibit of Cadavers in New York Provokes Protests, Controversy.

Aired November 20, 2005 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, this just in. We're going to go straight to Tacoma, Washington, where a press conference just got under way. We understand that the shooter has been arrested. The man who opened fire in the Tacoma mall has been arrested. This is what we have to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Mark, the hostages, were they men, women, both?

MARK FULGUHN, TACOMA POLICE DEPARTMENT: I don't know.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

FULGUHN: I don't know that, either.

QUESTION: And you have fatalities, right?

FULGUHN: No fatalities, as far as I know.

QUESTION: Where was he finally taken down?

FULGUHN: He was inside the mall.

QUESTION: Was it in the Sam Goody store?

FULGUHN: I don't have the details of how it all took place, whether it was inside or outside. I don't know.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) results of negotiations?

FULGUHN: I don't have those details, either. I came over...

QUESTION: What information can you give us about the gunman? Is he a white male in his 20s? What do you know about him?

FULGUHN: He's a young man, and that's about all I know about him right now. I don't know race. I have not seen him yet. He's -- didn't come out this way, so I have not even seen him.

QUESTION: What's happening behind you now?

FULGUHN: Right now, they're talking to the victims or the hostages, debriefing them to see what exactly took place, and starting to put things back together.

QUESTION: Do you have any information about what he wanted or anything like that?

FULGUHN: No. I don't know if there ever were any demands.

QUESTION: You said he just walked in. Tell us how he walked in and started firing.

FULGUHN: I don't know that. All I know is he was just in the mall and opened fire. That's the first calls we got. He just was in the mall, walking along, firing.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) his ex-girlfriend, girlfriends, were brought in. Can you give us any (INAUDIBLE)

FULGUHN: People were brought in. I don't know who they were. People showed up that knew him.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

FULGUHN: Our SWAT team was the one that took him into custody, a group of SWAT team. I'm not sure exactly what members in which departments. There's a lot of them represented here.

QUESTION: You say he gave...

(CROSSTALK)

FULGUHN: How many what?

QUESTION: How many hostages (INAUDIBLE)

FULGUHN: Three.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) fall asleep inside the store.

FULGUHN: I believe he was awake when he was taken into custody.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

QUESTION: And again, tell us how you took him into custody. No fight, no struggle.

FULGUHN: I don't know of any -- I don't have any details of how it took place. There were no shots fired or anything like that.

QUESTION: Can you give us a scenario...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: All right, that is the latest from the scene. We're hearing from Tacoma police that the suspect -- a young man is the only description we have -- was taken into custody by the SWAT team. There were three hostages. Those hostages are being debriefed right now. This is what we know. About four hours ago -- it was noontime out there in Tacoma, Washington, about 3:15 Eastern time -- a young man came in, opened fire in this shopping center. At least six people were shot, one of them critically. Then the mall started emptying out. This gunman ended up in the Sam Goody electronics store, taking about three people hostage. The police don't yet know what sort of motive there was or if there was anything that this gunman had wanted or made a demand know.

We did learn, though, that during the hostage negotiations that there were some people, possibly ex-girlfriends, who came to the scene to talk to him. So we're going to bring you more information as we get it, so stay tuned in this hour.

Now, this is our other developing story. Is he dead or alive? That is the question about the fate of Abu Musab al Zarqawi. A U.S. counterterrorism official tells CNN the U.S. military is testing to find out if he is among the dead after a raid in Iraq. Al Zarqawi is the al Qaeda leader in that region.

The Associated Press is reporting that eight suspected al Qaeda members died in a gunfight in Mosul yesterday. Some committed suicide. But a White House official says it's highly unlikely that al Zarqawi was killed and calls the report "not credible."

Ken Pollack from the Brookings Institution joins me now by telephone. Ken, what do you make of this report? Do you think he's dead or alive? Could he have been there?

KEN POLLACK, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: Hi, Carol. I honestly have absolutely no independent information about it. I would not even want to speculate.

LIN: All right. So how does a story like this get out? Why would it be even suspected that he was in that insurgent stronghold?

POLLACK: Well, obviously, U.S. forces are constantly looking for any scrap of information that they can find about Zarqawi. I'll tell you, though, Carol, having just come back from northern Iraq, having been up in the Mosul area, most of the U.S. military personnel are very skeptical of these reports. They say they get them all the time because, of course, the Iraqis know we're looking for him and they know that there's a big reward on his head. But what they find is that in every single case, 99.9999 percent of the time, it's just a rumor, and the times that they prove good, it's usually he was here a week ago and now he's gone.

LIN: What if he still -- what if he's alive and watching this report? What do you think is going through his mind?

POLLACK: My guess is if he is alive and he actually is watching this report, he's probably having himself a good laugh. He's probably thinking, I outwitted the Americans one more time.

LIN: You bet. In fact, it was rumored that he was mortally wounded -- if not mortally wounded, seriously wounded -- back this spring, and apparently, that may not have been the case. So we do get stories like this from time to time. This one, though, seemed to have some -- you know, some strength behind it, Ken. But we'll see what happens.

POLLACK: Absolutely. You know, I think the most important thing, Carol, we need to keep in mind is that while it would certainly be great to get Abu Musab al Zarqawi dead or alive, if only to give his victims a little bit of justice, we need to remember that the violence in Iraq is much, much bigger than Abu Musab al Zarqawi.

LIN: Right.

POLLACK: And it's highly unlikely that his death would cause any significant change in the situation there.

LIN: Agreed, but I think it's become personal for Americans, when he is behind the beheadings of at least three Americans. And I think that's part of the high interest here.

POLLACK: No question about it. As I said, it'd be very good for his victims to get a little bit of justice.

LIN: Ken Pollack, thank you.

POLLACK: Thank you, Carol. Have a good night.

LIN: Well, the insurgents used guns and bombs and rockets in the latest round of attacks inside Iraq. A U.S. soldier on patrol north of Baghdad was killed by small arms fire today, and a U.S. Marine who was hurt in combat yesterday has died of his wounds. The Iraqi death toll is growing, as well. A child and a police officer were killed today in two separate attacks inside Baghdad.

And now we also want to bring you the latest in the fight for Iraq. President Bush says pulling out now will only help the terrorists. He is responding to Congressman John Murtha's call to withdraw U.S. troops as soon as possible.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE WALKER BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Congressman Murtha is a fine man. He's a good man who served our country with honor and distinction as a Marine in Vietnam and as a United States congressman. He is a strong supporter of the United States military, and I know the decision to call for an immediate withdrawal of our troops by Congressman Murtha was done in a careful and thoughtful way. I disagree with his position.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Now, Congressman Murtha says the current U.S. strategy in Iraq has made terrorism worse, and he wants Iraqi forces to take over the battle in their own country. And he says things are getting worse for U.S. troops.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. JOHN MURTHA (D), PENNSYLVANIA: There's nobody that talks to the people in the Pentagon more than I do, and they -- they -- publicly, they have to say what the administration -- and that's the way it should be. Soldiers in the field -- I'll tell you how bad it's gotten in the field. I talked to sergeants who said to me, We're -- we're afraid to say anything because we'll stand to be recriminated by our superiors.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Well, the president says the U.S. does not use torture as a tool in the war on terror, but a former top State Department officials says it does go on in U.S. facilities, and he is pointing the finger at Vice President Dick Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld for allowing it to happen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COL. LAWRENCE WILKERSON, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF, STATE DEPARTMENT: There's no question in my mind that we did. There's no question in my mind that we may be still doing it. And there's no question in my mind where the philosophical guidance and the flexibility in order to do so originated in the vice president of the United States' office, and his implementer in this case was Donald Rumsfeld and the Defense Department.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Well, Donald Rumsfeld and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff say they don't know where Wilkerson is getting his information from.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I can't imagine he was ever in a meeting with the vice president or me or anyone else at a senior level.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: He was the chief of staff of the secretary of state.

RUMSFELD: Fine. That's -- that's fine. But in terms of having firsthand information, I just can't imagine that he does. And it's also -- the allegation is ridiculous.

GEN. PETER PACE, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: I was in every meeting with the Joint Chiefs. I was in every meeting with the combatant commanders. I went to the White House multiple times to meet with the National Security Council and with the president of the United States. I've never seen that colonel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Well, Colonel Wilkerson admits that he has no proof that the U.S. is currently torturing detainees. Now we want to move on to bird flu fears because there have been so many stories over this weekend and the past week about whether it's heading for the United States. Tonight, concerns are mounting that the U.S. is unprepared and unequipped to respond to a super-flu outbreak. Well, the nation's chief health officer now says it could take years to make enough vaccine to protect everyone from deadly bird flu, so President Bush right now in China talking about the disease and what can be done to stop its spread. We are going to have more on that development in just a moment.

But bird flu already has been found in North America. Canadian officials confirm three ducks have been infected with a non-lethal form of the H5-N1 virus, one that is not a threat to humans.

So with more and more cases of deadly bird flu surfacing overseas, what is the U.S. government doing to protect us? CNN's Gary Nurenberg has been asking the same thing, and he's found out a few things in Washington. Gary, some tracking systems?

GARY NURENBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, as you know, earlier this month, President Bush asked Congress for $7 billion to, among other things, stockpile vaccine and anti-viral drugs and to improve the ability to quickly develop a vaccine to fight new viruses. But top federal officials said again today if we do get hit with the bird flu, there just won't be enough vaccine to protect everyone.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): With the deadly bird flu now blamed for dozens of deaths in Asia, American health officials said Sunday the United States isn't prepared to protect its citizens from a widespread outbreak.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It will be three to five years before we have vaccine manufacturing capacity to deliver 300 million courses of a pandemic flu vaccine. We simply lack the capacity to do it as rapidly as necessary.

NURENBERG (on camera): That makes essential early detection of flu that could potentially cause a pandemic, and some scientists believe that great places for early detection are American zoos.

DR. DOMINIC TRAVIS, VETERINARY EPIDEMIOLOGIST: A fairy bluebird is actually an Asian bird that lives in the range that influenza is in right now.

NURENBERG (voice-over): Dominic Travis is trying to coordinate national efforts from Chicago's Lincoln Park Zoo.

TRAVIS: Zoos are actually incredibly well suited for that because to be a good sentinel, you need to have a stationary population of susceptible animals, and you have to have the infrastructure and the resources to watch the health of those animals.

NURENBERG: The Department of Agriculture also watches animals closely and thinks zoo guidelines issued Friday for bird flu detection could be helpful.

DR. JOHN CLIFFORD, U.S. DEPT. OF AGRICULTURE: It's a very excellent and good step in the right direction that would tie in well with the national pandemic plan.

NURENBERG: Local authorities sprayed to prevent West Nile virus several years ago, after zoos helped detect that disease. Those protocols for quickly notifying human health authorities are already in place.

TRAVIS: It's not to scare you, but it is -- it is a little scary.

NURENBERG: The bird flu hasn't yet developed the ability to spread consistently from human to human in a way that could cause a pandemic, but that remains a possibility, a reason health officials want to know immediately if it reaches the United States.

TRAVIS: The point is, by implementing good surveillance, you have a chance at early detection, and therefore a chance at early response, and therefore the best -- the best possibility of minimizing the impact of it, if it's introduced.

NURENBERG: And now if it is introduced, zoos may well be the first places to find out.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Federal health officials always caution against panic, the director of the Centers for Disease Control saying this morning, This is a bird problem, not a people problem. At least, Carol, so far.

LIN: You bet. Not yet. Gary, thank you very much.

Well, in Beijing, President Bush and his Chinese counterparts stressed cooperation in preventing and controlling bird flu. Other topics discussed today were trade and human rights and religious freedoms in China. One reason why bird flu is such a concern in China is the food market. CNN's Stan Grant explains. But first, I want to warn you some of the video you're about to see is disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STAN GRANT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These are China's markets of misery, cages of sick and scared animals piled one on the other, the dead, the near-dead, all breeds, all shapes and sizes butchered here, destined for the dinner table. This animal trader volunteers that what we're seeing is illegal. It's in places like this, epidemiologists say, the deadly SARS virus crossed from animals to people. Doctors fear if the bird flu virus mutates and spreads rapidly person to person, markets like this provide the idea conditions.

DR. FRED LEUNG, HONG KONG UNIVERSITY: If I were the viruses, if I were the bacteria, I would be very, very happy because those are just the right medium or the right environment for me to grow. GRANT: Dr. Fred Leung is at the front line of the fight against the deadly new viruses. He helped map the SARS genome, his team now racing the clock to unlock the mysteries of avian flu. He says disease is part of the landscape of China. He has praise for the Chinese government's attempts to deal with it. Where once was secrecy there is a new openness and action. Bird flu-infected areas are isolated and the birds destroyed, trading in some disease-carrying wild animals outlawed.

Yet changing the culture of live animal trading is slow. Markets like this remain, especially in southern China. Dr. Leung fears Chinese markets will breed ever more new and virulent diseases.

LEUNG: When you see those dead animal or sick animal piling each another, sharing body fluid and -- I mean, again, that's just a -- a medium waiting for something to happen.

GRANT (on camera): This truly is stomach-turning. The stench here is unbelievable. There is blood on the ground, all types of animals crammed into tiny cages. I've seen snakes. I've seen dogs. I've seen rabbits. I've seen donkeys. And here behind me are these poor, sickly-looking cats. Some of them are already dead, the others piled on top, not far from death, really. And what's most extraordinary here is that people come here to buy these things and eat them.

(voice-over): The animals end up at restaurants like this. The waitress proudly tells us how they slaughter the animals right before cooking. The customers happily feast on cat, snake and chicken in the same pot. It's good for your health, they say.

Stan Grant, CNN, Guangzhou, southern China.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Well, giving hope in the most hopeless cancer cases.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUSAN KING, CANCER SURVIVOR: It's the worst feeling I've ever had in my entire life. It felt like you were going down a well, falling face first down a well with your arms tied behind your back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: You are going to find out how this woman fought a death sentence. The fight against dangerous mold also in post-Katrina New Orleans. Is the problem worse than previously feared? And we are going to bring you another update on the mall shooting in Tacoma right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Want to give you the latest on the mall shooting in Tacoma, Washington. A man is in custody right now, and three hostages are being debriefed by hostage negotiators and Tacoma police. All we know is that it was a young man who opened fire, shooting a half dozen people. One of them was critically wounded. These are some of the latest pictures that came into the CNN Center in the last hour. We're staying on top of this developing story, so stay with us.

In the meantime, we've been telling you about a tropical storm, Gamma, which is now a tropical depression. It's losing steam in the Caribbean. It's now off the coast of Honduras. Now, it was a deadly storm. It killed 12 people. But it is no longer expected to hit Florida.

With that, there's some pretty scary weather headed our way this week, when a lot of folks are going to be traveling for Thanksgiving. So let's go to Monica McNeal at the CNN Weather Center. Monica, what do you have?

MONICA MCNEAL, CNN METEOROLOGIST: All right, Carol, I'll tell you what. We're already starting to see some messy weather across the Southeast. And as you've already indicated, lots of folks are going to be traveling over the holidays, and it looks like the East Coast is going to get the one-two punch. You're going to get socked with some nasty weather.

Here is an area of low pressure that has already developed down in the Gulf, socking lots of rain into parts of Tallahassee, Florida, all the way into Atlanta, over into Jacksonville. The reason why? Well, there's an area of low pressure that developed in the Gulf, and this area of low pressure's going to move across Florida and it's going to track its way all the way up the East Coast. Now, when that happens, it's going to dump lots of rain on parts of Florida. Tomorrow, Florida, you could see some severe thunderstorms. You could see some very, very strong rain and some very, very heavy, heavy rain at times.

And as this storm does track all the way up the East Coast, parts of New York City, you could see some snow as early as tomorrow night. Going to see some very cold air backing in behind this system, so this is just something that we'll need to monitor over the next couple of days because it looks like it could get really nasty as we get into the holiday travel.

Speaking of tomorrow, let's take a look at your high temperatures across the extreme Northeast. You're looking at temperatures in the mid-50s, 54 degrees for you there in Boston. As we travel down to New York City, you'll be under partly cloudy skies, a high temperature of about 55. Washington, you're looking at 57. More clouds are going to start streaming into your forecast.

Take a look at Charleston, 70 degrees for you. Very unstable air, very tropical, thunderstorms for Tampa, Orlando, Jacksonville and Miami. Temperatures will be in the 80s and some very, very sticky air for you. So we'll monitor this very closely, and we'll let you know what happens -- Carol.

LIN: All right. Monica, since we were telling people it's holiday weather, does this look like the picture for Wednesday, too, when a lot of people are going to be traveling? MCNEAL: This certainly does look like the picture, especially along the East Coast. I'll tell you what. With that storm system riding up the East Coast, Tuesday and Wednesday are certainly going to be days that are going to be tricky for us...

LIN: Right.

MCNEAL: ... with lots of showers and thunderstorms and even possibly some snow across the Northeast, Carol.

LIN: All right, we're warned. Thanks, Monica.

MCNEAL: All right.

LIN: In New York, an exhibit that's part science and part macabre, cadavers on display and creating quite a stir. The story, which may not be suitable for some, is straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Thirty-four years ago, President Nixon declared a national war on cancer. The disease was a virtual death sentence back in 1971, but today millions are alive because of cutting-edge treatments that are just short of a cure. They can stop a killer in its tracks.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): Susan King loves every second of her life because she was once told she was going to die from an incurable cancer, chronic myeloid leukemia.

(on camera): What is going through your head?

SUSAN KING, CANCER SURVIVOR: I was in complete panic, complete panic. I said, This -- I can't. I can't. I have these two little kids.

LIN (voice-over): She fell into a deep depression and was admitted into a psychiatric ward.

KING: It's the worst feeling I've ever had in my entire life. It felt like you were going down a well, falling face first down a well with your arms tied behind your back.

LIN: But four years later, Susan is very much alive -- tan, athletic and active -- yet the killer cancer is still inside her body. She is one of a whole new generation of people living with cancer, controlled in Susan's case by a breakthrough drug. Gleevec was FDA- approved shortly after Susan's fatal diagnosis. Dr. Brian Druker developed the drug and talks about a new frontier in cancer treatment.

(on camera): So project me now, I don't know, 10, 20, 30 years down the road. What is the world of cancer to you? What is it going to be like?

DR. BRIAN DRUKER, OREGON HEALTH SCIENCE UNIV.: Cures at a higher rate, more survivors, but more survivors that are living and thriving despite their cancer.

LIN (voice-over): No painful piercing of needles, no more spending hours in the chemo lab, now Susan takes just six pills a day. But Gleevec only controls the leukemia. On average, it's 4 percent less effective every year, which means patients like Susan King are living on borrowed time.

KING: The fear -- you know, week to week, I mean, my blood work could change next week, and it could show all these blast cells and I could go into the next phase of my disease in that amount of time.

LIN (on camera): The National Institutes of Health predict that in the United States, half of all men and a third of all women will be diagnosed with cancer in their lifetimes. But optimists like Dr. Druker also predict that cancer will soon be treated like any other chronic illness, like diabetes or arthritis.

(voice-over): Ellen Stovall remains cautious about breakthrough drugs and the patients taking them.

ELLEN STOVALL, NATIONAL COALITION FOR CANCER SURVIVORSHIP: What we don't know about these drugs is how long they're going to be effective. They're really the canaries in the coal mine.

LIN: She is a cancer survivor and founded the National Coalition for Cancer Survivorship. She's concerned that cancer patients will believe there's a magic pill for everyone. And some day, Gleevec won't help Susan King anymore, so she tells us what she tells her children.

KING: If it changes, Mummy's going to fight a new fight. And my son, Kyle (ph), just kisses me and says, Mum, you're going to be here forever, I know it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: And if there ever was a miracle patient, it's Susan King, and we hope she has many years left with her kids. We're pretty confident.

Well, another health concern that's affecting tens of thousands of people -- mold. It's literally blanketing homes in New Orleans. We are going to tell you about a new alarming report on mold in that city that might prevent people from moving back. And we're also going to be talking what some are doing to get rid of the fungus.

And later, are wedding bells ringing for pop star Christina Aguilera? Stay tuned. You're watching CNN LIVE SUNDAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Welcome back. I'm Carol Lin, and this is what's happening right now in the news.

A developing story out of Tacoma, Washington. Police say they have just arrested a man suspected of going on a shooting spree at a shopping mall. Six people were wounded, one of them critically. Police say after the shooting, the gunman took hostages inside a record store.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK FULGHUM, TACOMA POLICE: I don't know how (INAUDIBLE) All I know is that the suspect's in custody, all three hostages are out of the business, and they're fine.

QUESTION: What can you tell us about the suspect?

FULGHUM: I don't know much about the suspect at all.

QUESTION: Did he surrender peacefully?

FULGHUM: I don't know. Again, I don't have any details on how it all took place yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Actually, earlier, he did say that not a shot was fired. Police say the suspect was armed with an assault rifle. There's no word yet on the motive for the shooting.

Now, the U.S. military is trying to determine if Iraqi insurgent leader Abu Musab al Zarqawi is, in fact, dead. A U.S. counterterrorism official tells CNN the military is conducting tests to see if al Zarqawi is among a group of insurgents killed during a raid in Iraq yesterday. A White House official calls that prospect highly unlikely.

Gas prices continue to fall. The average price now of a gallon of self-serve regular is about $2.24. That's about 18 cents lower than prices were just two weeks ago.

Walk the talk. That is what the New Orleans largest newspaper is telling the federal government to do when it comes to the city's hurricane-damaged levees. In a rare front-page editorial, "The Times- Picayune" says -- and I'm quoting here -- "We need the federal government, we need our Congress to fulfill the promises made to us in the past. We need to be safe." It continues, "We need better protection next hurricane season than we had this year. Going forward, we need protection from the fiercest of storms, the category 5 storms that are out there waiting to strike."

Storm surge isn't the only danger these folks face. Mold, both inside and outside homes, is also a real health hazard. But the federal government is not warning anybody who's thinking about returning to the city of New Orleans. A new study, though, by the Natural Resources Defense Council, finds dangerous levels of mold contamination in that city. The Federal Centers for Disease Control says it's working with local officials to address the problem, but the NRDC insists residents are not being adequately informed or protected.

So joining me now is Dr. Gina Solomon, a senior scientist at the NRDC. Dr. Solomon, what were your findings exactly? DR. GINA SOLOMON, NATURAL RESOURCES DEFENSE COUNCIL: We went down to New Orleans to assess for environmental hazards, and it was obvious there was a lot of mold on the walls of the homes. But what wasn't clear is how much was in the air that people were breathing, and neither the EPA nor any other government agency had done the necessary testing. So we went out a few weeks ago and then again last week to test for mold in the outdoor air, and we found very high levels of mold...

LIN: And when you say...

SOLOMON: ... disturbingly high levels.

LIN: ... very high level, what do you mean, two times what would be considered even -- I mean, mold isn't healthy, but two times considered tolerable, four times?

SOLOMON: The levels that we found in unflooded areas were about what you'd expect to find in the Gulf Coast this time of year. In the flooded areas, the levels were between twice and five-fold...

LIN: Wow!

SOLOMON: ... higher than what you'd normally see in that area.

LIN: I mean, we're looking at some pictures. It's this black, gray stuff that's just stuck to the walls. But I mean, some people have mold in their bathrooms, so -- you know, and they're not dying from it or getting sick from it. So what kind of mold are you talking about?

SOLOMON: Well, the issue is in the concentrations and also in the types of mold. But the levels of mold in New Orleans are classified as very high or even are off the charts for the National Allergy Bureau, and these are levels that could cause serious problems for the 20 to 25 percent of people who have allergies and also for those folks who have asthma or other lung problems.

LIN: And you were even talking about healthy people who might get sick because the mold levels are so high.

SOLOMON: That's true. There are some disorders that can be caused by mold, something called hypersensitivity pneumonitis, which is a pneumonia-like disease that can become chronic. It's a good idea to minimize exposure to mold whenever possible, and the levels in that city right now are disturbingly high.

LIN: Disturbingly high. Well, we called the Centers for Disease Control, and this is what they said in a statement to us. "We did not find high amounts, but we realize that as more people return to the city, continued surveillance may be necessary, and we will be there working amongst local and state authorities."

Is that enough, Dr. Solomon? Does that satisfy your concerns that people will be protected? SOLOMON: None of the government agencies have released any of their data on mold sampling. I'd be very interested in seeing it. We sampled throughout the flooded and non-flooded areas of the city, and our samples were remarkably consistent.

LIN: All right, so you're standing by...

SOLOMON: The more the flooding, the worse.

LIN: You're standing by your results. So what should be recommended? I mean, do you think that the mayor of New Orleans should stop repopulating the city? Should the city be shut down?

SOLOMON: People should take respiratory precautions. And the thing is that they're not getting a clear message right now about that. It's fairly inexpensive and simple to get the kind of respirator that will protect people from mold. In fact, in my opinion, FEMA and EPA should be handing out those respirators...

LIN: And are they?

SOLOMON: ... so that people have them. No. We were handing them out, but unfortunately, none of the government agencies appear to be handing out respirators. They also should be informing people, getting the word out, and people who are reinhabiting these areas, you know, they should be cautious, especially if they start getting allergic or respiratory symptoms. And those with asthma and allergies might want to think twice before...

LIN: All right...

SOLOMON: ... going back...

LIN: Dr. Solomon...

SOLOMON: ... to New Orleans.

LIN: ... thank you very much. We did contact the EPA. They didn't want to make a statement on this. I know they have told you, a representative there, that they can't force people to clean up their homes. But it's a bigger issue than that, isn't it.

SOLOMON: Yes. The levels are both indoors and outdoors...

LIN: All right...

SOLOMON: ... all around the city.

LIN: Dr. Gina Solomon, thank you very much, with the Natural...

SOLOMON: Thank you.

LIN: ... Resources Defense Council.

Well, the CDC has posted information on mold -- about mold on its Web site, so you can check it out also at www.cdc.gov. OK, so now that you know more about the dangers for people moving back to New Orleans, we want to show you more about how people are living and dealing with this life-threatening problem. Reporting from New Orleans, here's CNN's Rusty Dornin.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We try to clean things (INAUDIBLE)

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's growing in the Lombard (ph) house.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The mold grow about four, five feet here, black mold (INAUDIBLE) really toxic, really bad.

DORNIN: It covered parts of Bob DeFelice's restaurant.

BOB DEFELICE, RESTAURANT OWNER: If you look down here, you can kind of see the black mold kind of taking over the weaker mold.

DORNIN: As it has in thousands of homes on the Gulf Coast.

DEFELICE: We might be able to salvage those.

DORNIN: Like man, Bob DeFelice, owner of Pascal's Manale, a New Orleans restaurant institution dating back to 1913, was facing weeks of work, ripping out and rebuilding all his interior walls. That's the standard treatment.

Then he heard about a gas fumigation system, a system that would sterilize his restaurant, every nook and cranny, without rebuilding. The company, Sabre technology, used the same gas to decontaminate Capitol Hill following the 2001 anthrax attacks. Turns out chlorine dioxide kills everything from termites to mold.

Back at the restaurant, DeFelice's employees were told they could bring any moldy items.

CARMEN PROVENZANO, CHEF: The mold in the closet.

DORNIN: So we went along with the sous chef Carmen Provenzano (ph) to grab some clothes at his wrecked home.

PROVENZANO: I'd rather take a chance and see if they can be saved.

DORNIN: Provenzano hung the clothes in the restaurant's closet. The building was then tented and the gas pumped in. Twelve hours later, the gas is gone and we followed DeFelice into his restaurant.

DEFELICE: This is incredible. I'm just totally blown away. Look at this wood here. I mean, that was just so dark before, and it's -- you can see all the grain.

DORNIN: What about Carmen Provenzano's clothes? PROVENZANO: Everything's a little dirty still, just given the situation. But it's definitely clean. You can smell difference. You can see the difference in the -- there is no mold on anything.

DORNIN: Chlorine dioxide is a pesticide approved by the USDA for everything from purifying drinking water to keeping baby carrots from getting slimy. It costs about $8 per square foot to treat mold with chlorine dioxide, putting the price at under $40,000 for an average house. It won't repair water damage, but it does eradicate mold. And for Bob DeFelice, that means the famous barbecue shrimp will be back on the menu by January. Rusty Dornin, CNN, New Orleans.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Well, a test case for democracy. Up next, women finding themselves literally on the front lines of change in Egypt.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: And now, "In Case You Missed It," let's check some of the highlights from the Sunday morning talk shows. On CBS's "Face the Nation," the Republican chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee called for a calmer, more sober conversation about the U.S. military presence in Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RICHARD LUGAR (R-IN), FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Even as we stay, there's going to be great anxiety unless we know how we're going to succeed. Do we need more troops, rather than less, for example? Do we need certainly more supplies, arms for the Iraqis that we're claiming are trained but frequently don't have ammunition, don't seem to have ways of getting around the country? You know, these are the questions that have got to be asked, as opposed to a lot of caterwauling, people coming out of a baseball dug-in (ph) and having at it on the field.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: But on "Fox News Sunday," the committee's top Democrat took issue with Vice President Cheney's assertion that Iraq war critics are now trying to rewrite history.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOE BIDEN (D-DE), FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: He said that, quote, "They have reconstituted their nuclear weapons." Simultaneously, I said -- contemporaneously, I said, There is absolutely no evidence of that. Two things the vice president continued to push and continues to push which were flat, dead wrong then, flat, dead wrong now. No Democrat I'm aware of suggested they believed that he had reconstituted his nuclear weapons.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Remember, every Sunday at 7:00 Eastern, we'll bring you the best headlines from the Sunday talk show circuit.

Now, women are on the front lines of a bitter battle in Egypt. After decades of rule by President Hosni Mubarak, Egypt is holding unprecedented elections. Today hundreds of protesters were arrested during a second round of parliamentary voting. Our Jonathan Mann reports on this test case for democracy in a special "CNN PRESENTS." Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN MANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was supposed to be a historic day, Egyptians voting to change their Constitution and give themselves the right for the first time to choose their president. The day was historic, but not the way everyone expected.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were being beaten up, very brutal. And they're just, you know, carrying people away.

MANN: Rabab Umadi (ph), a political science teacher at the American University in Cairo, joined a demonstration on May 25, referendum day. Laila Swift (ph), a mother and professor of mathematics at Cairo University, was also there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He started to hit me. (INAUDIBLE) interviewed, so they started to hit him.

MANN: They were among the thousands of Egyptians testing new freedoms. Little did they know what they were about to endure and the enormous impact it would have.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were like 100 or 150 at the (INAUDIBLE), and those thugs were, you know, somewhere between 300 and 500.

MANN (on camera): As the demonstration grew more violent, Rabab and some of the other protesters ended up here, at the top of these stairs. And then they were cornered against the wall, where, she says, they were being beaten with sticks. That's when she and some of the others slid down this slope to try to get away.

(voice-over): Completely surrounded, Rabab became the target of an angry mob.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The soldiers were beating us, beating us on the head with their sticks, and then tons of men, you know, (INAUDIBLE) saying the dirtiest of words. They're, like, You want to demonstrate against Mubarak? This is what's Mubarak doing to you. He's screwing you. See, whores? That's Mubarak that you're chanting against. He's now screwing you.

They slipped their hands everywhere. They tore off my bra. They tore off my panties. They were inside -- they were in my vagina. I couldn't feel anything. I -- at one point, I was just numb and I was begging the police officer. I'm, like, I'm going to die.

MANN: The attacks that day made news around the world. May 25 has now become known as "black Wednesday" for thousands of Egyptians. And on many Wednesdays after that, democracy advocates held demonstrations.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Watch a "CNN PRESENTS" exclusive, fighting and Dying for a Chance at Freedom in Egypt, and women are leading the charge, "A TEST CASE FOR DEMOCRACY," only on CNN tonight at 8:00 Eastern.

And talk about "Gray's Anatomy," you used to have to go to medical school to see the human body like this. These are real cadavers, and some people are profoundly upset about this exhibit. The story just ahead, but you might want to put small children in another room.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Well, is it science on display or exploitation? An exhibit of 22 preserved cadavers in New York is causing an uproar. Our J.J. Ramberg brings us the story. But first a word of warning. The images are extremely graphic, and they may not be suited for everybody.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

J.J. RAMBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With a feeling of part medical lab, part Hollywood horror film, this exhibit in New York City is exposing the human body in ways most of us aren't used to seeing.

ARNIE GELLER, PRES., PREMIER EXHIBITIONS: You're seeing a side cut of the brain, actually, so you can -- you can see the interior of the brain, and you can see how it's connected to the spinal cord and to the nervous system.

RAMBERG: What you're looking at is the brainchild of Arnie Geller, president of Premier Exhibitions. His company is showcasing the remains of 22 bodies that were preserved, displaying different parts -- muscles, nerves, the pulmonary system. Similar exhibits have traveled the world. Some curious patrons are attracted to the science, some fascinated by the macabre. But the New York display, like others, has become the center of controversy, with protesters outraged at its very existence.

(on camera): Exhibitors say that the bodies on display here are unclaimed or unidentified cadavers from China that were donated to a university for medical purposes. But many Asian-Americans say that this show is an exploitation of the dead.

CHRISTOPHER KUI, ASIAN AMERICANS FOR EQUALITY: (INAUDIBLE) Chinese culture that, you know, we do have the highest respect for the dead. And you know, for something like this -- I mean, this is, like, unheard of.

RAMBERG (voice-over): Chris Kui heads Asian Americans for Equality, a group calling for an investigation into the origin of the cadavers.

KUI: Within the community, that, you know, there are speculation that, you know, they really got this through, you know, (INAUDIBLE) or bribe officials of China that allowed the -- you know, the bodies to be transported to this country and then for these bodies to be used for these purposes.

RAMBERG: Geller insists the corpses are being treated with respect and that his company has gone through the correct legal channels.

GELLER: We went and spent many -- many months actually determining the source of the specimens, the process that's used. We are 100 percent convinced that everything we're doing is correct and that these specimens were obtained legally.

RAMBERG: And he says in spite of the controversy, he plans to take the exhibit on tour for the next five years. J.J. Ramberg, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Wow. Well, I think after all the news from today, you might want to see a lighter side of life, reports of a pop princess wedding. Plus...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now the moment you've all been waiting for, the champion selection!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Moviegoers choose their box office champion. We're going to tell you if Harry Potter lived up to expectations.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Christina Aguilera is used to the spotlight. The singing diva is making headlines in our "Pop Patrol" this weekend. Her reported marriage to music executive Jordan Bratman is one of the most popular stories on CNN.com. So according to "US Weekly," the 24-year- old singer and Bratman exchanged vows at a vineyard in northern California's Napa Valley last night.

The film biopic about the man in black is raking in the green at the box office. "Walking the Line" starring Joaquin Phoenix as Johnny Cash debuted in the number two spot. The movie took in more than $22 million.

But the big winner is the magic of Harry Potter. The latest film sequel about the boy wizard is drinking success from "The Goblet of Fire." In its debut this weekend, it grossed more than an estimated $100 million.

Now, straight ahead on "CNN PRESENTS," could America's push for democracy bring radical Islamists to power in Egypt? Watch "CNN PRESENTS: EGYPT, A TEST CASE FOR DEMOCRACY." That's next. At 9:00 o'clock Eastern, "LARRY KING LIVE WEEKEND" with Senator John McCain. Hear his thoughts on the situation in Iraq and whether he plans to run for president. And at 10:00 o'clock, round two. First it was Hurricane Katrina that left thousands homeless. Now it could be the government. I'm going to talk about that with the Reverend Jesse Jackson tonight at 10:00 o'clock Eastern.

The hour's headlines after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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