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The Situation Room
Cheney Blasts War Critics
Aired November 21, 2005 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: You're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time.
Happening now, offense and defense. President Bush and Vice President Cheney on the Iraq war. As the president returns from Asia, sure to be greeted by more questions and more criticism, the vice president holding the line, blasting away at critics of their policy.
Standing firm. A battle-tested Marine beats back stinging attacks of his call for troops to quickly leave Iraq. Congressman Murtha calls the attacks ridiculous, and predicts pulling out will mean less terrorism, despite what the administration says.
And a CNN exclusive, Bob Woodward on what he knew on the CIA leak case and, critically, when he knew it. Woodward reveals to our Larry King new details on his role and his conversations with the secret source.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Right now, President Bush is back in the hornets' nest, this town, Washington, D.C., swarming with fierce opinions about Iraq, not to mention a whole lot of anger and insults. If Mr. Bush thought the Iraq pressure was intense during his just-wrapped-up Asian tour, it may only get worse now that he's back home.
In the meantime, Vice President Dick Cheney once again has been fronting the administration's defense, this time with a carrot in one hand and a stick in the other.
Here's our chief national correspondent, John King.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The vice president's mission was to tone down one Iraq war political fight and sharpen the already heated rhetoric in another.
RICHARD CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He is a good man, a Marine, a patriot.
KING: Those kind words for Democratic Congressman Jack Murtha, whose call to bring the troops home in six months initially drew a scathing White House rebuke.
But before heading home from Asia, the president told senior aides the initial Murtha rebuttal was too personal, and said publicly that while he disagreed with him, the congressman is a fine man. Echoing the president's tone, the vice president called Murtha a friend, but made clear the White House thinks his timetable carries a dangerous risk.
CHENEY: Would the United States and other free nations be better off or worse off with Zarqawi, bin Laden and Zawahiri in control of Iraq?
KING: The sharper rhetoric was aimed at Democrats who suggest the president deliberately exaggerated the Iraqi threat to win public and congressional support for the war.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: The war in Iraq was and remains one of the great acts of misleading and deception in American history.
SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MINORITY LEADER: The fact of the matter is, and you can't escape this, is that the administration manipulated the evidence.
CHENEY: The flaws in the intelligence are plain enough in hindsight, but any suggestion that pre-war information was distorted, hyped or fabricated by the leader of the nation is utterly false. This is revisionism of the most corrupt and shameless variety.
KING: Rebutting the argument Mr. Bush misled the country into war is the most urgent White House priority, because the toll on the president's credibility is mounting and has ramifications for his entire second term agenda.
PETER HART, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER: At this stage of the game, the American public says, I no longer believe you. And we're not talking about those people who are liberal Democrats. We're talking about the middle of the electorate.
KING: Another reason the administration believes it can focus more on the pre-war intelligence debate is even Democrats who label the Bush Iraq policy a disaster, like Delaware Senator Joseph Biden, disagree with Congressman Murtha's six-month withdrawal timetable.
SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D-DE), FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: The hard truth is that our large military presence in Iraq is both necessary and increasingly counterproductive. Our presence remains necessary, because right now our troops are the only guarantor against chaos.
KING: While tough on Bush policy, Biden said at best U.S. troop levels could be reduced from 150,000 to 100,000 by the end of next year, and with that, the emerging Democratic consensus, many Republicans are pushing the administration to lay out a plan from beginning to reduce U.S. troop levels.
(on camera): The president has consistently said his decisions will be based on progress in Iraq, not political pressures. But senior administration officials tell CNN if next month's Iraqi elections go well, Mr. Bush is prepared to embrace reducing U.S. troop levels, perhaps in his State of the Union address early next year. John King, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Politicians have heated views about the fight for Iraq, but the troops who serve there literally stake their lives on the mission.
Our Tom Foreman has been talking to Iraq war veterans about U.S. policy and prospects for a pullout. What are you hearing, Tom?
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Wolf, people on both sides, as you said, are bringing up the troops an awful lot. Some saying the troops definitely want out; others saying the troops definitely want to go on fighting.
We decided to go out to one special event to find out for ourselves how at least some of the troops feel.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN (voice-over): About 40 military men and women who were wounded in Iraq went for a special holiday cruise on the Potomac River today, along with family, friends and other vets. The Disabled American Veterans arranged the event.
Everyone we talked to was aware of the debate over when and how the U.S. should end its involvement in Iraq. And while all say they know vets who want us out of that war, that was not the dominant sentiment on board today.
SGT. NICK ZWICKER, U.S. ARMY: We're so deep into it now that if we pulled out, it would probably ruin everything we've done. So, we have to stay in it for the long run.
LANCE CPL. KEVIN BLANCHARD, U.S. MARINE CORPS: I tell you, for myself, I don't think that it should end. It's kind of like, you know, as President Bush says, we pull back, you know, it's going to be tragic for the United States. But I do believe that I think a lot of other veterans feel the same way.
AIRMAN MICHAEL FLETCHER, U.S. AIR FORCE: It needs to be finished. I feel if we don't complete what we're doing, it's only going to get worse.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN: That was Airman Michael Fletcher, the last fellow we talked to there.
These fellows were really quite inspiring in many ways. Everyone we talked to said that they don't really want to get into the politics of what's going on right now. They don't want to debate whether the war should end now or tomorrow.
But I also have to say, this was just one group of soldiers in one circumstance, but they weren't hand picked, didn't even know we were coming to begin with. All of them said they would feel a sense of loss if we left Iraq without a sense of some kind of accomplishment -- whether that happens next month, six months from now, two years from now. That was the feeling out on that boat today. Even though some servicemen are speaking out against the war, we did not run into any of them today.
BLITZER: All right, Tom, thank you very much. Tom Foreman reporting for us.
Right now, there is uncertainty about the fate of Iraq's most wanted terrorist, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. This after reports largely dismissed that he was killed in the shootout with American and Iraqi troops in the city of Mosul. Figuring out whether that is true or not can involve some sophisticated forensics.
But our Mary Snow explains that is not nearly as simple as it appears on TV. Mary?
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, U.S. military sources say the military is conducting DNA tests to see if there is a match. Scientists say samples can be as small as the head of a needle, and the whole process can take as little as 40 hours.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (voice-over): Just as the police or FBI would do at a crime scene, the military turned to science at the site of a raid in northern Iraq. It's conducting forensic tests to find out whether suspected al Qaeda terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was among those killed.
LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, DNA EXPERT: It's "CSI" in wartime, and fighting terrorism.
SNOW: DNA expert Lawrence Kobilinsky says while the popular TV show "CSI" may have answers within the hour, the real process isn't as quick.
After a sample is taken from a body, experts say it can take up to four days to match it with its DNA on file. Those samples for example can be as small as a speck of blood, skin residue left from holding luggage, or remnants from a drinking cup.
But in the case of the elusive al Zarqawi, obtaining blood and tissue samples may not be possible. Experts say another way of matching DNA is to study the DNA of family members.
KOBILINSKY: The male children inherit the Y chromosome from the father. So we can have precise genetics on the individual simply by studying the children.
SNOW: Portable labs are making DNA testing possible in war zones.
Criminal investigator Dr. Henry Lee of O.J. Simpson case fame says when forensic evidence is retrieved at raid sites, investigators can gain key clues.
DR. HENRY LEE, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: They also can use it in the intelligence gathering to find out the movement and location of the potential terrorist.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: And in an effort to find Osama bin Laden, U.S. officials have acknowledged in the past that DNA samples were taken from bin Laden family members.
Wolf.
BLITZER: Mary Snow reporting. Thank you very much. Very interesting.
Let's check in with CNN's Zain Verjee at the CNN Center in Atlanta, with a closer look at some other stories making news. Hi, Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Wolf. The United States has banned poultry from the mainland of Canada's British Columbia because of bird flu concerns. A duck at a poultry farm outside of Vancouver tested positive for bird flu. Canadian authorities say it's not the same deadly strain that killed more than 60 people in Asia, but the U.S. Department of Agriculture says that it really wants to look at some more information.
The 14-year-old girl whose boyfriend allegedly shot and killed her parents this month willingly fled the scene with him rather than being kidnapped, that according to court papers obtained by the Associate Press. The girl said to have told detectives that she and the defendant planned to get married. Her boyfriend reportedly confessed to the killings after his arrest. The district attorney says kidnapping charges against him will be dropped.
Michael Scanlon, the former lobbyist and aide to Representative Tom DeLay, pleaded guilty today to conspiring to bribe public officials. As part of the plea, Scanlon agreed to pay retribution of more than $19 million to Native American tribes that may have been defrauded. Scanlon and his partner, Jack Abramoff, were paid more than $18 million by six tribes between 2001 and 2004.
An annual survey of crime statistics ranks Camden, New Jersey, the nation's most dangerous city for the second straight year. The murder rate in the city of 80,000 people is more than 10 times the national average. Rounding out the top five are Detroit, St. Louis, Flint, Michigan, and Richmond, Virginia. The safest city was Newton, Massachusetts, which has a median housing income that's actually more than three times that of Camden. Something like $86,000 per household as an average.
Wolf.
BLITZER: Zain, thank you very much.
Let's check in with Jack Cafferty in New York. He's joining us now live.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Is Zain still there?
WOLF: Zain, are you there?
VERJEE: Yes, Paul was just saying something in my ear.
CAFFERTY: Do you have it written in your contact that they play that music underneath you? Is that like -- do you refuse to go on unless they have that music cued up?
VERJEE: It depends on my mood, Jack. It depends on the stories. Sometimes, you know, it helps the script along and helps the energy and sometimes it drives me bananas sometimes. What about you?
CAFFERTY: It doesn't help anything. It's awful. And you're just fine without the music. And they should not play it any more.
You might soon find a "Made in China" label on your SUV. The "Los Angeles Times" reports Chinese factories are starting to break into Western car markets now. China is expected to top Germany as the third largest car maker in the world next year. One company's -- I'm not going -- I'll stop. Don't do it. One company's negotiating with a California dealership to begin selling its light trucks and SUVs priced at just $10,000. Now, that's about half the cost of the cheapest SUV in the U.S. marketplace. And luxury SUVs here in the States can go up to 50 grand and even more.
Some experts say when that when Chinese cars make it to the U.S. market, they could trigger political backlash and big protests.
With America's Big Three big carmakers struggling to keep up with foreign competition and today's terrible news about those 30,000 layoffs to General Motors, here's the question. Would you buy a $10,000 Chinese SUV? Email us -- CaffertyFile@CNN.com. Very funny.
BLITZER: We try to make your life a little bit more pleasant.
CAFFERTY: You do. Can I have a cassette of that to take with me on Thanksgiving?
BLITZER: We'll sell that music pretty soon.
Coming up, we'll have a lot more on those thousands of General Motors employees who are now without a job. It's not the news they wanted to hear just before the holidays. Thirty thousand of them will lose their jobs. The company says it's a necessary evil. Ali Velshi standing by with details.
Congressman John Murtha learned how to fight from decades as a Marine. Now he is putting those lessons to work in the face of blistering attacks on his character. Murtha says he's not backing down. He's our guest this hour.
Yet another plane with yet another scare. It involved landing gear, hours in the air, and shaken passengers from one of the world's largest companies. We'll have details.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: You're back in THE SITUATION ROOM. Welcome back. The world's largest automaker is announcing its largest layoffs in 14 years.
Let's go to CNN's Ali Velshi. He's got the "Bottom Line" from New York.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, these are the largest layoffs in 14 years for GM, the largest layoffs in America for the last three years. And it's more than just those layoffs. It's a big punishment for one of America's biggest companies.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VELSHI (voice-over): General Motors has been the world's biggest car maker since 1931. In 1955, it became the first American company to make over $1 billion a year. And it was all built on relentless demand for cars.
Cars for the masses were first built in America about 100 years ago and Americans haven't stopped buying them since. The thing is, they just don't buy as many from GM any more or from Ford. And GM and Ford's losses seem to be Toyota's gain. In fact, once the restructuring is done, GM will build a million fewer cars a year, allowing Toyota to take the lead and become the world's biggest car maker.
MICHAEL QUINCY, CONSUMER REPORTS: There's less of that stigma about I don't want to buy foreign, I only want to buy American. Toyota had the right cars at the right time since the 1970's when fuel prices were high and the oil embargo, they brought small, fuel-efficient cars that people flocked to buy.
VELSHI: U.S. automakers got in a price war to overcome the sagging sales. Then zero interest financing. And now they tell you they'll sell you a car for the same price that employees pay. None of it worked. GM and Ford now have the smallest share of the U.S. car market ever. Meanwhile, Toyota, Honda and others swooped in and won American drivers over with their quality, value and their styling.
For GM, it's more than just sales, it's costs. GM's biggest parts supplier, Delphi, recently filed for bankruptcy. GM used to own Delphi and may have to cover some of Delphi's health care expenses. That could cost GM billions. GM's own health care costs will amount to $5.8 billion this year. GM has already lost $4 billion this year. Some people on Wall Street think the car maker itself could go bankrupt.
Now, it's not all bad. American pickup truck sales have been solid. You might say, "Like a Rock." GM's Chevy Silverado is the second best selling vehicle in the United States. The best selling vehicle is Ford's F-series pickup. But, the best selling car in the United States, the Toyota Camry.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELSHI: Now, Toyota knows that as early as next year it could become the biggest car maker in the entire world. It also knows that in the biggest car market here in the United States, that could trigger a backlash. Especially since so many U.S. auto workers are being put out of work. So they started an ad campaign touting the fact that they have 190,000 auto making jobs right here in the United States. That's Toyota.
Wolf.
BLITZER: Quick question, quick answer, Ali -- the timing of this announcement, just before Thanksgiving, before Christmas. Talk about bad timing.
VELSHI: It's tough on the workers. It has not come as a surprise to many of them. We already thought 25,000 people would get laid off. The rumors are circulating that GM could be in enough trouble to declare bankruptcy. GM wanted to take fast action to at least look like they're taking the tough choices to try and do the right thing. It might be too late. We'll have to see.
BLITZER: Ali, thank you. Ali Velshi reporting.
Still to come here in THE SITUATION ROOM, the man at the center of the latest heated debate over the war in Iraq. That would be Congressman John Murtha. He's a decorated former Marine and respected pro-military lawmaker. And he is calling for an immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops in Iraq. He is my guest this hour.
Also, a scare in the air over Portland. A corporate jet in crisis with top Nike executives on board. We'll show you what happened.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: CNN's Anderson Cooper is in THE SITUATION ROOM with a preview on what is coming up later tonight on his program. Anderson?
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, Wolf, thanks.
Tonight at 10:00 Eastern our continuing series, "Keeping Them Honest", did FEMA pay out more than $60 million in damages to people who didn't even need it? That's an allegation coming out of Jackson, Mississippi -- a town largely spared from any substantial hurricane damage. Lot of questions tonight about exactly who gets money in the wake of a natural disaster, and if there's anyone really watching where the money is going.
Also, tonight, the mystery of the frozen airman -- the World War II pilot whose body was discovered frozen in the Sierra Nevada Mountains. Scientists are getting close to finding out who he is. They have narrowed it down to four possibilities. Tonight we'll tell you who they are.
Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. Anderson, thanks very much.
ANDERSON COOPER 360 airs 10:00 p.m. Eastern tonight.
Let's check back with CNN's Zain Verjee. She's at the CNN Center in Atlanta with a closer look at some stories making news around the world. Zain?
VERJEE: Hi, again Wolf.
The United Nations says more than 14 million people worldwide are now living with HIV. According to a report published on Monday by the U.N. some 25 million people have died of AIDS since the virus was first identified in 1981. And more than 10 percent of those fatalities taking place in just the past year. Somewhat tempering those rather grim statistics, the report also says that infection rates in some hard-hit countries are actually showing consistent decline.
Israel's Prime Minister Ariel Sharon quit his right-wing Likud party on Monday, saying he is going to start a new centrist political party. Sharon, who helped to found Likud more than three decades ago, announced that he'd seek a third term as prime minister as part of what he called a new liberal movement. New elections are expected as soon as February.
And the new ideas being floated to protect Venice, Italy, and its famous canals from a threat that the city is sinking. Some experts now proposing injecting sea water under Venice to raise it by a foot. That's how far it's sunk over the last 300 years due to tides and floods. Engineers believe that the sea water would cause sand to expand, basically pushing up the soil and raising the city. Critics are warning that the $117 million project could cost even more and take years to be put into action.
And finally, in Mexico, Wolf, butterflies are free. There are millions of them, bright orange and black Monarch butterflies. They landed in Mexico after a 3,000-mile journey from Canada. Now, that's basically an annual ritual for the species, but not for these butterflies. Not one creature actually makes a round trip journey and their offspring will return to Canada in their place. So, if you have some spare time, Wolf, you can track the migration pattern of these butterflies.
BLITZER: This is an amazing story, Zain. In fact, we're going to get some more on this massive butterfly migration from our Internet reporter Jacki Schechner. What are you picking up, Jacki?
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, there is a project that you can read about online called the Michoacan Reforestation Fund. And essentially, it's a group of people in central Mexico who are trying to reestablish the natural habitat of these Monarch butterflies in central Mexico. It's really kind of a neat thing. It costs about 50 cents to plant and cultivate one of these trees. That's one of the little seedlings right there. They said they planted about a million trees in the last seven years. And during the course of the nesting period they estimate you can find hundreds of thousands of Monarch butterflies in just one tree alone.
Now, what's also interesting about this Web site is you can see an animated map. We were talking about how they were migrating to Mexico in the spring. They will take that trip back up north.
Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, interesting stuff.
Just ahead, a house Democrat bombarded since his call for a speedy U.S. withdrawal from Iraq. Congressman John Murtha responding to his Republican critics and to his fellow Democrats, who disagree with his stance. That's here in THE SITUATION ROOM. He's joining us.
Plus, an emergency in the air. A major corporation's jet in trouble and circling for hours. See for yourself how it all turned out.
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BLITZER: Congressman John Murtha is firing back tonight at his GOP critics, labeling their attacks on his call for a quick troop withdrawal from Iraq ridiculous. But the Pennsylvania Democrat's stunning change of heart is exactly being embraced by his own party either.
I spoke earlier with Congressman Murtha about the uproar.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Your Democratic colleague in the Congress, Senator Hillary Clinton from New York state, quoted by the AP as saying an immediate withdrawal -- in her words -- "would be a big mistake. I think that would cause more problems for us in America. It will matter to us if Iraq totally collapses into a civil war." She's afraid it could become another Afghanistan, in effect.
What do you say to her and other Democrats who have a problem with a withdrawal as you recommend over the next six months?
REP. JOHN MURTHA (D), PENNSYLVANIA: What I said, Wolf -- and I believe this very strongly -- there will be less terrorism.
Just because the president, just because the White House says there's going to be more terrorism if we withdraw doesn't make it so. He said there's going to be weapons of mass destruction. He said oil was going to pay for it. They said there was an al Qaeda connection. That's not necessarily true.
I predict the opposite. I think there will be less terrorism. We've become the target. We're the ones that have become the enemy. Eighty percent of the people there believe we that shouldn't be there, we shouldn't be occupiers. Forty-five percent think it's justified to attack America.
Let me tell you something. In 1963, Secretary McNamara predicted that we'd be out of there in two years. We had 2,200 casualties in 1965, two years later after he made that prediction.
BLITZER: You're talking about Vietnam?
MURTHA: I'm talking about Vietnam. From that time on, we had 53,000 casualties. I'm trying to prevent another Vietnam.
BLITZER: Listen to what the vice president, your old friend, Dick Cheney, said today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHENEY: Recently my friend and former colleague, Jack Murtha, called for a complete withdrawal of American forces now serving in Iraq, with a drawdown to begin at once.
I disagree with Jack and believe his proposal would not serve the best interest of this nation. But he's a good man, a Marine, a patriot. And he's taking a clear stand in an entirely legitimate discussion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Has he called you, the vice president, to discuss this issue?
MURTHA: Well, Dick Cheney and I, we are old friends. I used to talk to him every day when I was chairman of the committee and when we were in the '91 war. As a matter of fact, I would say, let's get this thing moving. And he would say, not until Schwarzkopf's ready.
So, we are old friends. But he hasn't called me up, but I'm sure he will.
I'm convinced that he will come around to my position. This war cannot be won militarily. We have to turn it over to the Iraqis. The Iraqis will let us fight this war forever. I'm convinced the only way it's going to be won is politically.
I said 18 months ago, either mobilize totally or get out. A year ago I said you can't win it militarily. I'm saying the same thing now. Now, what am I saying? I'm saying redeploy to the periphery, so that if we have a terrorist camp that's built up that might threaten the United States, we can go back in.
And I'm saying in a time that's practicable. When they say withdrawal immediately, they're kind of stretching this whole thing. But I'm saying immediate start of a redeployment.
BLITZER: What did you mean last week when you suggested that because he had five deferments -- Dick Cheney never served in the military during Vietnam -- he really wasn't qualified to discuss these issues?
MURTHA: Well, a lot of people like what I said. And I said that heated. And I feel bad about that actually, because, you know, Dick Cheney, he was in Congress for 10 years. He really has served this country. And he's been a public servant when he would have been making a lot more money outside.
So I'm trying to bring this thing back to the real world. I'm trying to talk about the substance, not the vitriolic, even myself get into arguments that we shouldn't be saying.
They're softening their position, Wolf. That's what we need. We need a bipartisan solution to this. It can't be won on the ground. The Russians couldn't beat them in Afghanistan. The French couldn't win in Algeria. We couldn't win in Vietnam. If you read the book "1776" by David McCullough, you realize how tough it was to beat the best army of the times, and we were insurgents.
So, I'm convinced that we're going to come -- I predict we'll have our troops out of there very shortly after the election this year.
BLITZER: After the election of next year you mean, a year from now?
MURTHA: I'm talking about our election, the U.S. election.
BLITZER: A year from now.
MURTHA: A year from now.
BLITZER: So, you're saying that a year from now, all 150,000 U.S. troops will be out of Iraq, or most of them?
MURTHA: I would say most of them would be out of there. They could have all of them out of there.
We are the targets. Every convoy that has to re-supply our troops is a target. And McNamara predicted in '63 two more years and we had 2,200 casualties; there were 53,000 casualties since the 1965. I don't want another Vietnam.
BLITZER: The president, the vice president, the secretary of defense, what they're saying, though, is that if the United States, in their words, cuts and runs, this will be open season on Americans all over the world. It will advertise America's weakness.
MURTHA: Wolf, what did they say about weapons of mass destruction? What did they say about al Qaeda connection? What did they say about oil paying for it? What did they say about welcoming us with open arms and throwing rose petals? Just because they say it doesn't make it so. I've been more right than they have.
BLITZER: You tell a very emotional story, Congressman Murtha, about when you're at a military hospital meeting some of the wounded who have come back from Iraq. I know you've spent a lot of time in Iraq; you've studied the issue.
But on an emotional level, you've been motivated largely by what you've seen resulting from this war, the U.S. casualties?
MURTHA: Wolf, there's no question about it. And let me tell you this. I've got an emotional outpouring of support. Eighty percent of the people who called my office supported what I'm doing. I get standing ovations when I walk in a place, like I did this morning.
I mean, the public is way ahead of the Congress on this, way ahead of the White House on this. The people want a solution. They want a plan. And hopefully we'll be able to work something out.
BLITZER: Was there one incident at Walter Reed, the Army medical hospital, that motivated you into taking this 180-degree statement?
MURTHA: Well, I think it was a combination of going to Iraq and seeing that they don't have enough troops to secure the border. The Marines that are along the Syrian border, they don't have enough troops to secure. They go into a place and then they have to leave it. And the problem is, when you go into a place, you shatter that place, you push all the people out, you got 60 percent unemployment. So I saw those tactics were making us the enemy.
Then I come home and I see young folks, how they don't like the Iraqis, they don't trust the Iraqis. I hear them -- I heard one young fellow who said to me, and this is the point where I really thought there had to be a change. He started talking about how well Iraqis were doing when I was asking them how well they're doing. He said, well, they're really doing much better.
And then after a while I realized he was talking about the insurgents. And I thought, Jesus, this is -- and then I looked at the criteria for success that Rumsfeld was supposed to come up with; everything's flat, the oil production, the electricity, the water supply; and 60 percent unemployment.
Only the Iraqis can win this. We have to give them the incentive. They'll let us fight forever. We have to make them take over their own country.
BLITZER: Congressman, your Republican colleague from Ohio, Jean Schmidt, she's a freshman, basically suggested you're a coward for saying this. And the White House on Friday basically said -- the White House press secretary equated you to the liberal filmmaker Michael Moore.
What do you say to those kinds of attacks?
MURTHA: Well, I try to deflect that. I try to say, look, let's stay to the substance of this thing. This is not what -- this is not about Jack Murtha. This is about the American public wanted a plan, an exit strategy for Iraq. That's what they want, and that's what it's all about. It's not about Jack Murtha. So, you know, she sent me a letter of apology; I accept the apology.
The president has softened his position. And I think Vice President Cheney thinks maybe there's something -- I hope that he calls some people to the White House, listen to what I have to say and other people have to say and they start thinking about, can we win this thing?
It can't be won militarily, the commanders tell you. There's nobody closer to these military brass than I am, Wolf. I listen to these guys all the time. They don't tell me what -- they say what they have to say.
But when I talk to the troops, I get a different story. I get a story that we need to have a plan. And from the families -- an outpouring from the families. Somebody called me from Brussels today that's in the NATO and said everybody in NATO agrees with me. I'm sure everybody doesn't agree, there's a lot of people that don't. But it's just the beginning -- this is just the beginning of redeploying our troops.
BLITZER: Congressman, thanks so much for joining us. Good luck. We'll continue this conversation down the road.
MURTHA: Thanks very much, Wolf.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And up next, Bob Woodward in an exclusive interview. Find out what he really knew and when he knew it on the CIA leak. That's coming up. He spoke with Larry King just a little while ago.
Plus, a plane in peril. A scary ride lasting for several hours after a plane's landing gear malfunctions. We'll tell you how it all ended.
As the United Nations celebrates its 60th birthday, a film is a curious gift. The actor Ron Silver narrates a documentary detailing the U.N.'s record and performance. Coming up, I'll ask Ron Silver about the film and lots more.
Stay with us.
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BLITZER: Here's a look at some of the "Hot Shots" coming in from our friends over at the Associated Press -- pictures likely to be in your hometown newspapers tomorrow.
In Mongolia, President Bush and the first lady pose with men and women in traditional dress. They just returned to the White House after a four-country tour of Asia.
In Mexico, the attorney general releasing this picture of a man accused of being part of one of the nation's biggest cartels. He was captured in a shopping mall.
To Louisiana now, a tattered American flag hanging near a home destroyed by Hurricane Katrina.
And in Tampa, this just in, a baby male gorilla shows off. He was delivered by C-section after his mother experienced complications. It was the first birth of a gorilla in Busch Gardens' 46-year history.
Those are some of today's "Hot Shots", pictures often worth 1,000 words.
Some very tense moments in the skies over Portland, Oregon, today, where the passengers and crew of a corporate jet found themselves in an unexpected crisis.
CNN's Mary Snow is joining us. She has the story. Mary?
SNOW: Well, Wolf, the Gulfstream jet belongs to the Nike Corporation. And several top executives were on board for a trip to Toronto. But that trip never happened. Trouble started immediately on takeoff.
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SNOW (voice-over): Everything started OK. The plane took off from Portland's Hillsboro Airport at 6:00 a.m. But one set of wheels didn't come up, they were stuck. The pilots informed everyone on board about the situation, including Nike CEO, William Perez.
WILLIAM PEREZ, NIKE CEO: They were very calm, collected, very professional. Told us every maneuver they're going to try. We tried some zero-gravity maneuvers. Some very interesting maneuvers, put it that way.
SNOW: The pilots also tried a couple of touch-and-go landings, hoping to dislodge the landing gear. That, too, failed. Much of the drama was carried live on TV. But on board, the situation was almost business as usual.
PEREZ: Everybody was calm. We were sending emails. We were talking. The phones were working part of the time, you could use cell phones.
SNOW: Circling the airport, burning fuel and preparing for an emergency landing, the pilots had one more trick up their sleeves.
PEREZ: We shut off the left engine, put all the hydraulic force into the right engine, and we did a few maneuvers and it came down. And then once it came down, Charlie Densen (ph) and I could tell by the look on his face, he was facing that way, that we were in very good shape.
SNOW: After more than four hours, a perfect landing. This incident comes less than a week after a smaller plane also experienced landing gear problems over Atlanta. It wound up making a belly landing. No one was hurt. And this spectacular incident in September was also seen on nationwide television. A JetBlue plane landing amid a shower of sparks at LAX. Its front landing gear turned sideways. In all three cases, it was a level-headed cockpit crew that averted disaster.
PEREZ: The pilots, unbelievable. Unbelievable what they did for us.
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SNOW: And Perez also gives credits to the plane's maker, Gulfstream. Their experts were in constant radio contact with the pilots, trying to troubleshoot the problem and they will join in the investigation, along with the FAA.
Wolf.
BLITZER: A happy ending for all concerned. Thanks very much, Mary, for that report.
Let's find out what's coming up on PAULA ZAHN NOW. Paula standing by in New York. Paula, what are you working on?
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi Wolf, just about 14 minutes from now, we have a really amazing story of twin sisters whose lives are complete opposite. One is a psychiatrist. The other suffers from schizophrenia. Yet, they share an incredible bond, which has helped them through some very tough times.
We're also going to follow up on a report we brought you a little bit earlier on this year. The explosive allegations of religious intolerance at the Air Force Academy. After all the investigations and promises to do better, has anything changed? A surprising report at the top of the hour.
Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Paula, thank you very much. Sounds good.
Tonight, Washington Post reporter Bob Woodward is speaking out about the bombshell he dropped when he revealed his own connection to the CIA leak investigation.
Last week, Woodward testified that a highly placed Bush administration official had told him about Valerie Plame Wilson's role as a CIA operative, more than two years ago. In a CNN exclusive, the journalist who uncovered Watergate, is telling our own Larry King he only realized the full importance of that information when former Cheney Chief of Staff Lewis Scooter Libby was indicted.
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BOB WOODWARD, WASHINGTON POST: The day of the indictment, I read the charges against Libby and looked at the press conference by the special counsel. And he said: The first disclosure of all of this was on June 23, 2003, by Scooter Libby, the vice president's chief of staff, to "New York Times" reporter Judy Miller.
I went, whoa, because I knew I'd learned about this in mid-June, a week, 10 days before. So then I say, something's up. There's a piece that the special counsel does not have in all of this.
I then went into incredibly aggressive reporting mode and called the source the beginning of the next week and said, do you realize when we talked about this and exactly what was said? And the source in this case, at this moment -- a very interesting moment in all of this -- said, I have to go to the prosecutor. I have to go to the prosecutor. I have to tell the truth."
And so I realized I was going to be dragged into this, that I was the catalyst. And then I asked the source, if you go to the prosecutor, am I released to testify? And the source told me, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: The complete interview with Bob Woodward airs tonight on CNN's LARRY KING LIVE, 9:00 p.m. Eastern, 6:00 Pacific. You certainly will want to stick around and watch that tonight, here on CNN.
Up next, Ron Silver. I'll talk to the "West Wing" star about his new documentary, "Broken Promises, the United Nations at 60," and more.
And, would you buy a $10,000 Chinese SUV? It's our question of the hour. Jack Cafferty is looking through your e-mail. He'll tell us what you're saying. Stay with us.
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BLITZER: My next guest is a familiar face from TV. Ron Silver is a star of the NBC series the "West Wing" yet in real life he watches world events very closely. He is the narrator of a new documentary titled "Broken Promises: the United Nations at 60."
Ron Silver is joining us now live from Los Angeles to talk about the film, the situation in Iraq, some other subjects. Ron, thanks very much. Welcome to THE SITUATION ROOM.
RON SILVER, ACTOR: Good to be here, Wolf. Thanks.
BLITZER: Michael Moore and Congressman Jack Murtha, they were compared. You have become an ardent conservative, a strong supporter of the Bush administration since 9/11. You strongly support the war in Iraq. But when you heard that comparison, you are shuttering now, but what do you make of it?
SILVER: Well, clearly, they should not be mentioned in the same sentence. Jack Murtha is a very well-respected member of Congress, a marine veteran. They should not be mentioned in the same breath whatsoever.
BLITZER: And, so that was a huge mistake for the White House to make that suggestion. SILVER: Yes. But you know what, as you pointed out and as the congressman very graciously conceded, in the heat of the moment when he mentioned that Cheney -- he alluded him having five deferments, that was equally ungracious, as well.
That doesn't belong in this conversation. This is too important what's going on to have this kind of conversation that they're having in Washington and throughout the country. I mean, this whole Bush lied to us into war narrative, they should drop it right now.
BLITZER: But you know a lot of people believe that, Ron, that there was cherry picking of intelligence. They only wanted to use what would strengthen the case and they ignored the DIA reports, the other reports from the Department of Energy, the Bureau of Intelligence and Research at State that didn't back up those reports.
SILVER: I know that. I know that. But it is a dishonest, hypocritical, almost slanderous conversation.
Wolf, how many hours a week are you on? About 900, 940 hours a week, something.
BLITZER: Something like that.
SILVER: Take 10 hours and just replay all the comments that were made whether it was Jay Rockefeller, Ted Kennedy, Hillary Clinton, with Secretary of Defense Bill Cohen (ph).
BLITZER: Let me ask you, Ron, because you are a smart guy, we went to school together. I've known you for a long time. Knowing what you know now about Saddam Hussein and the threat that he posed, no weapons of mass destruction, no connection with al Qaeda, would you have recommended going to war against this guy?
SILVER: Absolutely. In fact, you asked me about this before we actually went in in March 2003 and I don't know verbatim but I think I told you then, I'd go beyond the administration and WMD. Regime change, which was officially our policy from the 1998 Liberation Act under President Clinton.
He is too dangerous to allow on the world's stage, especially with AQ Khan, proliferation of weapons. You cannot have Saddam in power with Uday and Usay (sic) looking to take over his legacy. He had to be tumbled. What I supported -- and I understand there is a lot of constructive criticism, I'm not stupid. The implementation has been wretched, there's been operational dysfunctions. But what I supported was the Bush doctrine. Basically, you have to confront the threats before they emerge and the way we protect ourselves is by advancing and promoting democracy to the world.
BLITZER: All right. Ron, unfortunately, we have got to leave it there. But we are going to continue our conversation on the film, on the U.N. film, down the road. Sorry we couldn't get to it tonight. Ron Silver, an old friend joining us in THE SITUATION ROOM. But he'll be back. Still ahead, made in China. An SUV for just $10,000? Would you buy one? Jack Cafferty will have the answers to his email "Question of the Hour".
Stay with us.
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BLITZER: Let's go up to New York. Jack Cafferty, loves our music. He's reading your e-mail. Go ahead, Jack.
CAFFERTY: The "Los Angeles Times," Wolf, has a piece this morning. The Chinese factories are starting to break into Western car markets. One company is already negotiating with a California dealership to sell Chinese light trucks and SUVs priced at around $10,000. So the question would be, would you buy a $10,000 Chinese SUV? They cost $20,000 and up in this country, all the way to 50, 60, 70 grand.
John in Lexington, South Carolina: "If it gets great gas mileage and costs less than the cars we buy from the Japanese, Germans and Koreans, I still wouldn't buy it. It wasn't made in America."
Janet in Winston-Salem, North Carolina: "No, I wouldn't buy one if it was $1. Americans need to start boycotting products that are made in other countries if at all possible. Our workers need the jobs."
Tom writes from Detroit, Michigan: "Absolutely. I'd buy a Chinese SUV. If our American companies can send our American jobs to China and India, why shouldn't I just cut out the middle man and buy from China directly? It's all part of the global economy, no?"
Tony writes: "Almost everything my family buys comes from Wal- Mart, and therefore from China. If the Chinese SUVs, or picktrucks don't carry some kind of flu virus, I'm sure I'd buy them too.
Anna in Kernersville, North Carolina, writes: "If I bought a Chinese SUV, I might feel the need to buy another one 30 minutes later."
And Ken in Calgary writes: "Why not? PS, you're right about the background music, it's terrible."
BLITZER: It seems you hear from Ken in Calgary all the time. Let's just spend five seconds listening to that music. Quiet, Jack.
Sounds like my neighborhood on garbage day when they take the cans out to the curb.
BLITZER: It's got a good beat. It's easy to dance to. We'll play more of it tomorrow, Jack, thanks very much.
CAFFERTY: Oh, swell.
BLITZER: To our viewers, don't forget we're here in THE SITUATION ROOM weekday 4:00 to 6:00 p.m. Eastern, as well as 7:00 PM Eastern. Until tomorrow, thanks very much for joining us.
Now here's Paula Zahn in New York. Paula?
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