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American Morning
War of Words; Woodward and CIA Leak; Job Insecurity
Aired November 22, 2005 - 9:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Car trouble for the world's largest automaker. General Motors putting the brakes on production at a dozen plants. Some 30,000 workers are now facing layoffs.
Famed journalist Bob Woodward in a Larry King exclusive about what he knew about the CIA case and when.
And new details about the brutal killing of two Pennsylvania parents. Their daughter apparently now saying she willingly ran of with the accused shooter.
More on that shooter is ahead, and the very latest on the investigation, too, on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Miles O'Brien.
O'BRIEN: Good morning. Welcome everybody.
Miles O'Brien is basking on a beach somewhere. We're very happy for him. Rick Sanchez has been kind enough to help out.
We certainly appreciate it. I'm sorry the weather has been crummy for you here.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: It was good for a while, then all of a sudden it started coming down yesterday, didn't it?
O'BRIEN: Yes. Not good. And of course we've heard that there have been big delays at LaGuardia Airport, which bodes very poorly for how our -- the travel is going to be as we head into the holiday.
SANCHEZ: Yes. We're hearing the planes are going to be real busy, the weather is going to be bad. So it's kind of a bad -- I'm fascinated, by the way, by the story out of Pennsylvania.
O'BRIEN: Oh, the teenagers.
SANCHEZ: The new -- I mean, what is it saying? Because when you consider the fact that this is the young man who police say shot her parents...
O'BRIEN: David Ludwig, 18-year-old now a suspect in the double murder of two people, the parents of a young girl, Kara Borden, 14 years old.
SANCHEZ: Right. O'BRIEN: New details. Pretty shocking.
SANCHEZ: And she gets in the car with him and drives away. Was there any kind of intent there? I mean, does the focus now shift toward her, do you think?
O'BRIEN: I think yes, and I think the details that are emerging are just absolutely fascinating in this case.
SANCHEZ: Yes. It's sad, indeed.
Well, here's another story we're following on this day. Washington, harsh words in the debate over the withdrawing troops from Iraq -- or on withdrawing troops from Iraq, I should say. The jabs going all the way up to the vice president. But since returning from Asia, President Bush has been quiet on the subject.
Andrea Koppel is live at the White House. She's following this for us.
Andrea, when will we hear from the president, if at all today?
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPT. CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rick, we're expecting to hear from him early this afternoon during the annual pardoning of the turkey ceremony here at the White House. But we're not likely to hear the president make any comments on Iraq.
The president arrived home at the White House last night. Shortly before he arrived home, the vice president, certainly not someone to pull his punches, lashed out again at this administration's mostly Democratic critics who in recent days stepped up their criticism of President Bush and others in the White House of twisting prewar intelligence.
Vice President Cheney says it is legitimate to criticize, but...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What is not legitimate, and what I will again say is dishonest and reprehensible, is the suggestion by some U.S. senators that the president of the United States or any member of his administration purposely mislead the American people on prewar intelligence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: The president needs a new plan. The president has to stop saying we're going stay the course, not one day longer. He has to get a consensus constitution. He has to get the ministries there up and running, the people that turned the street lights on and off.
(END VIDEO CLIP) KOPPEL: Senator Joe Biden of Delaware, a Democrat who appeared earlier this morning on AMERICAN MORNING and certainly one of this administration's harshest critics. And although he doesn't agree with Representative John Murtha of Pennsylvania, who called for the administration to withdraw its troops within six month, you heard him there, Rick, say that we clearly need -- the White House clearly needs to make some pretty serious adjustments.
SANCHEZ: Andrea Koppel following that story for us. We thank you for the update. We'll get back to you.
And let's go over now to Soledad.
Soledad, what you got?
O'BRIEN: All right, Rick. Thanks.
New details, in fact, emerging in the CIA leak investigation. And "Washington Post" reporter Bob Woodward telling CNN exclusively about his role in the case and the conversations with his still secret source.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BOB WOODWARD, "WASHINGTON POST": I don't like this. This is a mighty uncomfortable situation.
O'BRIEN (voice over): In an exclusive interview on Monday on "LARRY KING LIVE," journalist Bob Woodward talked about his connection to the White House CIA leak case. An investigation by special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald led to the October indictment of Lewis "Scooter" Libby, at the time Dick Cheney's chief of staff.
WOODWARD: The day of the indictment I read the charges against Libby and looked at the press conference by the special counsel, and he said the first disclosure of all of this was on June 23, 2003 by Scooter Libby, the vice president's chief of staff, to "New York Times" reporter Judy Miller. I went, whoa, because I knew I'd learned about this in mid-June, a week, 10 days before.
O'BRIEN: But Woodward sat on that information until very recently, not saying anything for more than two years even as the story surrounding CIA officer Valerie Plame and her husband Joe Wilson became a growing controversy. Woodward says now it was a mistake not telling his boss at "The Washington Post" what he knew and when he knew it.
I was trying to avoid being subpoenaed, and I should have, as I have many, many times, taken him into my confidence. And I did not.
O'BRIEN: Woodward says his White House source revealed Valerie Plame's identity in a casual offhand way. He sees no evidence of a White House smear campaign.
WOODWARD: Certainly the charge against Scooter Libby is about as serious as you can get. LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Sure.
WOODWARD: But the issue, was there some sort of conspiracy or organized effort or effort by one person to out, to disclose publicly that Joe Wilson's wife was an undercover operative? I haven't yet seen evidence of that.
KING: Right. But that...
O'BRIEN: Woodward's been criticized for his belated admission in the CIA leak case. "The Washington Post's" own ombudsman calling Woodward's failure to reveal his conversation with his White House source a deeply serious sin (ph). Woodward was asked about possible damage to his reputation.
WOODWARD: That's for other people to judge.
KING: Do you think?
WOODWARD: You know, I -- I think the biggest mistake you could make in this sort of situation as a reporter is to worry about yourself.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: You can catch "LARRY KING LIVE" on weeknights on CNN at 9:00 p.m. Eastern.
Other stories making news. Carol has a look at those.
Good morning again.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Soledad.
And good morning to all of you.
It is still not clear whether Kara Borden knew her boyfriend would allegedly kill her parents. But one thing prosecutors say for sure, the 14-year-old Pennsylvania girl went away with him willingly. In fact, they say she ran after his car and got in after watching him kill her father.
In the meantime, a family friend says she deserves forgiveness.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID SHEAFFER, BORDEN FAMILY FRIEND: She's a child of god, and we've forgiven her. We all make mistakes. And if it comes out that there was a situation there, then so be it. But we still love her, and we're going to pray for her and do whatever we can for her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Her boyfriend, 18-year-old David Ludwig, is charged with killing both of Kara's parents. According to court papers, the girl says the plan was to "get as far away as possible and get married."
Another mortar attack in Iraq today just as a hand-over ceremony was taking -- was taking place. Take a look.
We're just getting these pictures in, and you'll soon see the effects of the blast. In fact, the ground shakes. And you're also, I think, going to see a commander, a top commander in Iraq and other officials duck for cover as the -- there it goes. Well, no, that's the camera shaking.
Yes, this is different video from what we had before. I'm seeing it for the first time, along with you. But you can see how people are scattering.
This happened near Tikrit. Fortunately, no one was hurt in this incident. U.S. officials were there to formally hand over a military facility to Iraqi forces.
We'll keep you posted on this one as we get more pictures into CNN.
In the world of sports, the Philadelphia Eagles having less to be thankful for this holiday week. First quarterback Donovan McNabb is sidelined for surgery. McNabb suffering from that hernia. He is expected to miss the Eagles' final six games.
Also, an arbitrator is expected to announce a ruling tomorrow on wide receiver Terrell Owens. Owens is battling an Eagles decision to suspend him for four games without pay for conduct detrimental to the team.
Now, how ironic would that be if Owens plays again for the Eagles this season and McNabb doesn't? It's possible.
O'BRIEN: His thing (ph) from the sidelines for me.
COSTELLO: I know. It's possible. Poor Donovan. I just feel so sorry for him. Such a classy guy.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
COSTELLO: It will still be busy, but AAA is predicting only a few more people will be on the roads this Thanksgiving.
AAA says less than one percent more will hit the highways as compared to last year. Higher gas prices are being blamed. That doesn't mean there won't be plenty of people out there, though.
More than four million people expected to fly to their Thanksgiving destinations. AAA also says over 37 million Americans will be on the roads, and they will travel 50 miles or more for Thanksgiving.
And the weather is nasty. It's already begun.
Jacqui Jeras is here to tell us more. JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, it is ugly. And it's just expected to get uglier throughout the day today.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: All right. Jacqui, thanks very much.
SANCHEZ: Coming up, we're going to have the very first in-depth look at FEMA's failures in Katrina's aftermath. And it involves somebody that you're going to be very familiar with here who's a part of this documentary.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: I don't understand how FEMA cannot have this information.
MICHAEL BROWN, FMR. FEMA DIRECTOR: Soledad, I learned about it listening to the news reports.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: That's Soledad's interview. He did two others, but since then, Michael Brown has been talking to very few people. He finally goes on the record on "Frontline," the documentary.
We're going to talk to the correspondent and producer, and we'll have it for you when we come back on AMERICAN MORNING.
O'BRIEN: Also ahead this morning, the very latest on those job cuts out of GM. And this question: Are Americans today working harder with less job security than ever before? We've got a closer look at that this morning.
SANCHEZ: And then later, our special series, "Week of Giving." Miles takes us to an elite prep school that offers refuge and free education to some of Katrina's younger victims.
Stay with us. We'll be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: We told you about this devastating news out of GM, where 30,000 people will be losing their jobs as 12 plants are being shut down. Wall Street, though, not much reaction to that news, leading some people to speculate that even more cuts could be in the company's future.
A big impact, obviously, for GM and its employees. A big impact as well on the state of job security here in the U.S.
Sue Shellenbarger is the work and family columnist for the "Wall Street Journal." She's in Portland, Oregon.
It's nice to see you, Sue. Thanks for talking with us. It's always nice to catch up with you.
SUE SHELLENBARGER, "WALL STREET JOURNAL": Thanks.
O'BRIEN: You know, as much as this says a lot, I think, this news about the state of GM, it says volumes, too, speaks volumes, really, about the state of job security here in this country, doesn't it?
SHELLENBARGER: It does. As you say, Soledad, the news was met with a collective yawn on Wall Street. The fact that U.S. manufacturing jobs are going away is not news.
But I think on a symbolic level it cuts a little deeper for American families for a couple of reasons. I mean, GM has been seen as the last bastion of the lifetime job security. It was a place where an unskilled worker could hire on and gain access to the middle class. And those jobs are going away.
And the scope of the layoffs hit so many medium-sized American cities where there really aren't any other options for unskilled workers. That's going to hit the nightly news everywhere in America. And, of course, the size of the layoffs.
Even though we knew on Wall Street that they were going to be in the five figures, 30,000 does sound like a lot of jobs.
O'BRIEN: And it is a lot of jobs. It's really a metaphor, don't you think, for how the workplace has changed over the last 10, 15 years?
SHELLENBARGER: It really is. We're having to get used to constant, rapid change. Companies are changing, going away, coming back, merging, restructuring, imploding over ethics scandals. And this is causing families to have to adapt very quickly to change. It's become a part of their lives.
O'BRIEN: And certainly you see kind of a generational ability to embrace the change, or even maybe expect the change. I mean, young people seem to think, OK, fine, I'm going to change with the company. I have no intention of staying there for a life time.
Staying there for a lifetime would almost be a bad thing.
SHELLENBARGER: In fact, that's true. The Generation X workers came of age at a time when we were shifting from a manufacturing economy to an information economy. For them, lifetime employment would be a negative.
They want to change jobs. They're accustomed to it. And they have skilled and reskilled to do that.
Well, for the traditionalists, the World War II generation, and the boomers like myself, have worked very hard to try to attain longevity on the job. We see that as an advantage. So in this rad rapidly-changing economy we have some real generational differences. O'BRIEN: Is there an upside to a rapidly-changing economy? I mean, do the younger generation have a point where they can move quickly between jobs and rapidly?
SHELLENBARGER: Yes. I think it's a good thing to keep you on your toes mentally. I think we're seeing companies handing younger workers and older workers alike retraining opportunities.
We're getting new skills to do the new kinds of things that the economy is demanding. That's part of the giveback for all of the changes that are occurring. But it is also very demanding for families.
O'BRIEN: Yes, I would imagine, because you certainly see companies where at least it feels like companies, if you're going to stay with them for a long time, they are demanding a lot out of the workers. I don't know anybody who's working an eight-hour day. I mean, people are working 10 to 12, if not more, hour days.
And then, of course, that that has an impact on the family, because you're working sometimes to be with your -- to feed your family and house your family that you don't necessarily see a lot.
SHELLENBARGER: And you're caught on the horns of a paradox. You're working longer, seeing them less, and it's all for the family. It's a very tough thing.
Work is seeping into corners of the day and night. And that makes us feel like we're working much longer hours.
There are more frequent transfers being required of workers at many levels, short-term transfers, and much more business travel in some cases. And this is very hard on families at a time when I think families are trying to accomplish more in many ways.
They're -- the emphasis on family values is causing us to try to help more parents stay home and raise the children from home, to try to provide a really solid education. And all of this at a time when the cost of that is rising at double-digit rates, education, housing and child care.
So it's a really very high-pressure time for families. And I think the GM news just kind of underscores the rate of change for us.
O'BRIEN: Yes. If it feels like you're being pulled in a lot of directions, it's because we are.
All right. Sue Shellenbarger with the "Wall Street Journal."
Nice to see you always, Sue. Thanks.
SHELLENBARGER: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Rick.
SANCHEZ: Coming up, a new documentary exposes the chain of failures in Katrina's aftermath. And wait until you hear how former FEMA chief Michael Brown explains his mistakes.
That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: FEMA director Michael Brown has spoken to very few people, but tonight in a "Frontline" documentary on PBS, for the first time since Katrina, FEMA director Michael Brown -- or former director Michael Brown speaks to correspondent Martin Smith. Here's some of what he has to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN SMITH, "FRONTLINE": So you said it three times.
BROWN: I said it three times.
SMITH: So how do you misspeak three times? I don't understand.
BROWN: I understand why people can now look at that tape and say, Brown is saying he just learned about that? He really must be an idiot.
I simply misspoke. I knew about it 24 hours before, and I should have said we just learned about it 24 hours ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: "Frontline" correspondent Martin Smith here to join us now.
Thanks so much for being with us. Good morning.
SMITH: Good to be here.
SANCHEZ: He seemed defensive. Was he?
SMITH: Well, he was -- he was not bumbling as he was portrayed that week, as he was indeed bumbling during that week. He was -- he was fairly smooth. He seemed relaxed. He seemed...
SANCHEZ: His argument is, I can't help people unless they tell me exactly what it is they need. Was he told what those folks needed?
SMITH: Apparently he was. We asked -- well, he said to me that he had gone to the chief of the National Guard who is in charge of all emergency management there in the state and asked him what he needed and that he didn't get any reply, he didn't get any response.
So I went back to the general, General Landraneau (ph), and I said, "Mike Brown says you didn't tell him what you needed." And he handed us a 48-page document with specific requests dated throughout the crisis.
SANCHEZ: So it was documented that we need A, B, C and D, and this was supplied to FEMA, supplied to Michael Brown, and still the response wasn't there?
SMITH: Well, he claims that he didn't see the list. Now...
SANCHEZ: Brown does?
SMITH: That's what Brown claims. So it's generated. It's a FEMA document. It's a FEMA record of what the state requested. So there's no -- there's no explanation other than, you know, you have to ask why didn't FEMA show it to Brown?
SANCHEZ: Another character in this unfolding drama seems to be the governor, Blanco, who also says that she wasn't sure what to ask for herself.
We've got -- we've got some sound from your documentary we'd like to play now. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. KATHLEEN BLANCO (D), LOUISIANA: Whatever help you can give me. If somebody asks me for help and I'll say, OK, well I can do this, this, this and this, what do you need? But nobody ever told me the kinds of things that they could give me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Confused, did she appear?
SMITH: Well, she makes a lot of very vague -- she has press conferences that week and performs very badly and makes a lot of vague requests of Washington. And Brown says to me when I talk to him about Blanco that it was very difficult to get her to sit down and run a meeting.
But the point here is that we're going to have this kind of situation. We're going to have disasters where locals are overwhelmed or locals are in over their heads. And the question is, what's the -- what's the safety net for us? Because if you're trapped in an attic somewhere, you don't care who's saving you. You just want somebody.
So that's why we have FEMA, presumably.
SANCHEZ: Let's talk about FEMA, because it does have some structural and some operational problems, it seems. And not just with Katrina. This dates back to Andrew.
Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't work.
It worked with Albaugh, Joe Albaugh, after 9/11. It didn't work after Hurricane Andrew. It didn't work after Katrina. It seemed to work during James Lee Witt's tenure.
Why is that?
SMITH: Well, apparently it worked in the '90s because they professionalized the agency. It had had a reputation from the beginning of being a parking lot for political appointees. And when Hurricane Andrew struck in Florida in the last year of Bush I's presidency...
SANCHEZ: Which was a political disaster for him.
SMITH: It was a big disaster for him that nearly lost him the state in the coming election. But after that they reformed FEMA. I mean...
SANCHEZ: The Clinton administration.
SMITH: The Clinton administration.
SANCHEZ: The Clinton administration came in and said, look, we can take a loss here politically. Let's make sure we get real pros working on this. He brings in James Lee Witt.
SMITH: That's right. And James Lee Witt, by all accounts, Democrats, Republicans, reforms the agency. That's considered the high watermark for FEMA.
SANCHEZ: So how did we get back to what we were when Katrina came around?
SMITH: Well, I think the biggest factor here is the formation of the Department of Homeland Security, the creation of a huge bureaucracy with 22 agencies, 180,000 people. You create that, and as former Senator Warren Rudman says in the documentary, you create indigestion.
You can't swallow all this. You can't make this thing run efficiently. It's going to take time.
So that's the grand irony. We create this -- we throw a lot of money at the problem, we create this big unit to make us safer, we are not as a result.
SANCHEZ: "Frontline" correspondent Martin Smith.
Thanks so much for being with us.
SMITH: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Well, "The Storm" airs tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern on PBS.
O'BRIEN: Ahead this morning, the battle over prewar intelligence. Critics say the White House misled the public. Are Democrats to blame, too? We'll take a closer look just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: There it is, the opening bell ringing on Wall Street this morning.
(STOCK MARKET REPORT)
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