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American Morning
President Bush Returns From Asia, Keeps Mum On Iraq Controversy in Washington; General Motors Plant Closings, Massive Layoffs Stun Industry; Joseph Biden Presses For Clear Plan of Action in Iraq
Aired November 22, 2005 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR, AMERICAN MORNING: Thanks, Carol. I'm Soledad O'Brien.
President Bush back from Asia, heading to his Texas ranch for Thanksgiving. No break from the political firestorm over Iraq. We're live in Washington where the war of words heats up, even as lawmakers head home for the holidays.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR, AMERICAN MORNING: I'm Rick Sanchez in for Miles O'Brien. New revelations in the murder of a mom and dad in small town Pennsylvania and why their young daughter now says she willingly ran away -- willingly ran away -- with a suspected killer.
O'BRIEN: Then this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We knew it was going to close, we just didn't know when.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: What went wrong at the world's largest automaker? What will happen to tens of thousands of workers who are now losing their jobs, on this AMERICAN MORNING?
Good morning. Welcome. As we mentioned, Miles O'Brien is off today for the holiday, but Rick Sanchez is nice enough to fill in. We appreciate it, again.
SANCHEZ: Always a pleasure to be here.
O'BRIEN: You had a good day yesterday, in New York yesterday?
SANCHEZ: Nice to have a job, by the way.
O'BRIEN: Certainly is. The news coming out of these GM plants closing, absolutely devastating for people. Experts say it's really a symbol what is happening across our nation. Not just about GM.
SANCHEZ: And think about the timing. It's a terrible time of year to be told you are losing a job you may have had for decades.
O'BRIEN: It's terrible. We'll get into more of that this morning as well. First, thought, let's get right to Washington, D.C. New attacks in the war of words over Iraq.
Democrats and Republicans buzzing but since returning from Asia, President Bush is staying quiet. In fact, he's hitting the road again for Thanksgiving in Texas. Andrea Koppel is live for us in Washington, D.C. this morning.
Andrea, good morning to you. Do you think we will hear from the president, though, before he leaves town and heads for Texas today?
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.
We will, but probably not on Iraq that is because the only public event on the president's schedule today before heading to Crawford for the Thanksgiving holiday, is the annual presidential turkey pardoning at the White House.
As you mentioned, while Iraq hasn't been on the president's lips the last day or so, it certainly was the focus of a speech yesterday by Vice President Cheney. A speech which came days after the White House attacked Democratic Congressman John Murtha of Pennsylvania, who called for U.S. troops to withdraw from Iraq within the next six months.
Last week, a White House spokesman accused Murtha, who was a 17- term Democrat from Pennsylvania, of endorsing the policy of filmmaker Michael Moore and the extreme liberal wing of the Democratic Party.
On Monday, Mr. Cheney used his speech to praise Murtha as a friend, former colleague. At the same time, the vice president continued what is the new strategy of the White House and that is to try to reverse the president's downward slide in the polls and take its mostly Democratic critics head-on; those accusing the president of misrepresenting the facts and skewing the pre-war intelligence on Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY (R), VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Those who advocate a sudden withdrawal from Iraq should answer a few simple questions. Would the United States and other free nations be better off or worse off with Zarqawi, bin Laden, and Zawahiri in control of Iraq? Would we be safer or less safe with Iraq ruled by men intent on the destruction of our country?
REP. JOHN MURTHA (D-PA): This war cannot be won militarily. We have to turn it over to the Iraqis. The Iraqis will let us fight this war forever. I'm convinced the only way it's going to be won is politically.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KOPPEL: Obviously, a strong difference of opinion between John Murtha, there appearing on THE SITUATION ROOM, and this White House, Soledad. The White House is hoping that they will get a little bit of a break, at least for the next week or two on Iraq because of the Thanksgiving holiday. The president heading off to Crawford later this afternoon, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: I bet they hope so. All right. Andrea Koppel for us this morning in Washington, D.C. Andrea, thanks.
Rick?
SANCHEZ: Here's a follow to that story. As the debate over Iraq rages here in the United States, Iraqi leaders are actually asking for a timetable for getting U.S. troops out of the country. But when will Iraqi troops be able to stand up on their own to defend their country? Let's go to Senior International Correspondent Nic Robertson. He's live for us in Baghdad.
Nic, what are you hearing from commandos there on the ground?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think one of the reasons -- if you look at that political decision in Cairo -- one of the reasons for that they want to try to include the Sunnis into the political process here. This is one of the things they've been demanding.
Commanders here want to avoid getting dragged into how many troops are ready in the Iraqi army, when can the U.S. military pull out? What they say they want to do is build an army of quality.
They say that all of the pieces are in the right place. There are enough bullets, enough helmets, enough flak jackets and enough guns getting out to the soldiers. What they want to is build up Iraqis' ability to finance that army in the long run; to draw up budgets for it, to look ahead to a five-year, 10-year plan and vision as they say.
What they want is to produce a quality army special they say rushing it just isn't going to do that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. MARTIN DEMPSEY, CMDR., MULTIANAT'L. TRANSITION FORCE: Time will always be a factor in our decision-making. On the other hand, it cannot be the primary factor because what we're looking to produce is something actually fully capable -- and last, and will be something that is an institution of national cohesion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: And what the general says is if you pull out too soon there isn't that national cohesion. You have an army that is essentially a band of men running around with weapons. No use to the country -- Rick.
SANCHEZ: Senior International Correspondent Nick Robertson, following things for us. We thank you so much, Nic.
Soledad, over to you.
O'BRIEN: Let's stay in Washington then. New details emerging from the CIA leak investigation. "Washington Post" reporter Bob Woodward telling CNN exclusively about his role in the case and the conversations with his still secret source.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOB WOODWARD, REPORTER, "THE WASHINGTON POST": I don't like this. This is a mighty uncomfortable situation.
O'BRIEN: In an exclusive interview on Monday on "Larry King Live", journalist Bob Woodward talked about his connection to the White House CIA leak case. An investigation by Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald led to the October indictment of Lewis "Scooter" Libby, at the time, Dick Cheney's chief of staff.
WOODWARD: The day of the indictment, I read the charges against Libby and looked at the press conference by the special counsel. He said the first disclosure of all of this was on June 23, 2003, by Scooter Libby, the vice president's chief of staff, to "The New York Times" reporter Judy Miller.
I went whoa! Because I knew I had learned about this in mid-June, a week, 10 days before.
O'BRIEN: But Woodward sat on that information until very recently, not saying anything for more than two years, even as the story surrounding CIA Officer Valerie Plame, and her husband, Joe Wilson, became a growing controversy. Woodward says now, it was a mistake, not telling his boss at "The Washington Post" what he knew, and when he knew it.
WOODWARD: I was trying to avoid being subpoenaed. And I should of -- as I have many, many times, taken him into my confidence, and I did not.
O'BRIEN: Woodward says his White House source revealed Valerie Plame's identity in a casual offhand way. He sees no evidence of a White House smear campaign.
WOODWARD: Certainly, the charge against Scooter Libby is about as serious as you can get. But the issue, was there some sort of conspiracy, or organized effort or effort by one person to out, to disclose publicly that Joe Wilson's wife was an undercover operative. I haven't yet seen evidence of that.
O'BRIEN: Woodward has been criticized for his belated admission in the CIA leak case. "The Washington Post" own ombudsman calling Woodward's failure to reveal his conversation with his White House source, a deeply serious sin. Woodward was asked about possible damage to his reputation.
WOODWARD: That's for other people to judge.
LARRY KING, LARRY KING LIVE: Do you think? WOODWARD: You know, I think the biggest mistake you can make in this sort of situation as a reporter is to worry about yourself.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: "Larry King Live" airs every night 9:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.
Ahead this morning, we will talk Senior Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin about the impact that Woodward's testimony could have on this CIA leak investigation -- Rick.
SANCHEZ: We have been following the case of 18-year-old David Ludwig. He's suspected, as you may know, of killing his girlfriend's parents on November 13 in Lititz, Pennsylvania. Ludwig had also been accused of kidnapping 14-year-old Kara Borden, his girlfriend.
Now, according to authorities, Borden is saying that she willingly ran away with Ludwig to, quote, "get as far away as possible, get married, start a new life." Friends of the family say they are just glad that she's home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID SCHEAFFER, FAMILY FRIEND: She's a child of God and we've forgiven her. We all make mistakes. And if it comes out that there was a situation there, then so be it, but we still love her. And we are going to pray for her and do what we can for her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Because of her statement, that means the kidnapping charges against Ludwig will be dropped. Though he still is going to face two counts of homicide. Ludwig has reportedly confessed to intentionally murdering the couple.
O'BRIEN: Some of his testimony has just been devastating.
At nine minutes after the hour, almost 10 after the hour, let's get right to the forecast this morning. Jacqui Jeras is at the CNN Center.
(WEATHER FORECAST)
SANCHEZ: Coming up, the fallout from those massive job cuts we've been telling you about at General Motors. We will take a closer look at uncertain future for those thousands of workers.
O'BRIEN: Then more this morning on that fight over when to pull U.S. troops out of Iraq. We'll talk to one Democrat who is calling for a gradual withdrawal. That is Senator Joe Biden.
SANCHEZ: Our special series, "Week of Giving." Today, an incredible gift for some of Katrina's younger victims. A free education from one of the nation's most prestigious prep schools, and that is ahead on AMERICAN MORNING. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING.
A stunning announcement from General Motors is sending shock waves through the industry. From Portland, Oregon all the way to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, the nation's number one auto maker is cutting 30,000 jobs, closing all or part of a dozen GM plants in North America. That's more than a quarter of the company's hourly work force. More now, from Casey Wian.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Take a good look at these minivans fresh off the assembly line in Doraville, Georgia, because these vehicles, this plant and these workers will soon be history.
DORIS GRAHAM, GM WORKER: We knew we were number one on the list to be closed. The economy is bad, so you just have to find something else to do.
GREG LOTT, GM WORKER: And this thing here has been coming for about the past five, 10 years. We knew it was going to close. Just didn't know when. We just hoping we can get our retirement time in before it close.
WIAN: In Oklahoma City, where they make big SUVs, union officials had to break the word to workers.
BOB ALEXANDER, UAW: I'm not going to lie to y'all. This really hard for me to tell the plant over there that they announced today that they told us that they were closing the Oklahoma City plant.
GOV. BRAD HENRY (D-OK): We will do everything within our power to soften the blow of this bad news, and to make sure that we help retrain these employees and find them good paying jobs.
WIAN: GM plants to close nine manufacturing plants, plus three part facilities, and wipe out 30,000 jobs. It is a desperate move to keep the world's largest auto manufacturer in business.
RICK WAGONER, CHMN & CEO, GENERAL MOTORS: This is tough medicine for us and I think its tough medicine for everybody involved with our company.
WIAN: GM employees and shareholders have already swallowed plenty of that. The company has lost $4 billion this year and its stock has lost nearly two-thirds of its value since 2002. Long gone are the days when GM's main worry was Japanese competition. Now its struggling to fend off cheaper imports from Korea, and soon China. GM blames high labor and healthcare costs for its financial problems. Others say GM wounds are self-inflicted.
PETER MORICI, UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND: The high prices of gasoline this year, certainly has hurt General Motors, but they should have been prepared for that. The reality is General Motors just doesn't make cars people want to buy.
WIAN: GM's strategy for returning to profitability includes what it calls a product renaissance. Part of that will be an all new line up of SUVs and more fuel-saving hybrids. Casey Wian, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: More on this with Andy, who is "Minding Our Business" this morning.
Good morning.
ANDY SERWER, CNN ANCHOR, AMERICAN MORNING: Good morning, Soledad.
To most of us, these cuts by GM were severe but to Wall Street, they were not enough. In fact, the stock fell almost 2 percent yesterday after the announcement. You can see here that the stock has been basically in a freefall this year.
Forty years ago, GM stock was as twice as high as it is today, which is just stunning. Here are some other stunning facts about the company. It has a stock market value of $13 billion, about the same amount that Whole Food Supermarket has. And it is also 14 times less than Toyota, which has a market value of $180 billion.
Listen to this, too, GM has 400,000 U.S. retirees. Toyota, 1,000 North American retirees. That costs Toyota $300 a car; it costs GM $1,500 a car.
And then finally, a side note, as metaphor, this morning, "Motor Trend" magazine announcing its Car of Year? It's a Honda Civic. It's a Honda Civic.
And so you can see here, as they said in that report that Casey had, the company is simply not making cars that people want to buy. And we can talk about finances and retirees, but the bottom line is about products and that is what they have to address. And it's going to be very difficult for them to do that.
O'BRIEN: That's tough. That is an institutional change. A long- term change.
SERWER: Sure is.
O'BRIEN: Thank you, Andy.
Ahead this morning, the debate ahead on when to bring U.S. troops home from Iraq. We will talk to one Democratic senator. He says an immediate pullout is a mistake. Senator Joe Biden, he's up next on AMERICAN MORNING. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: As the president and lawmakers is get ready to head home for the holidays, the war of words over progress -- or lack thereof -- in Iraq continues without any abatement. Listen to Congressman Jack Murtha, he was on THE SITUATION ROOM, with Wolf Blitzer yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. JACK MURTHA (D-PA): This war can't be won militarily. We have to turn it over to the Iraqis. The Iraqis let us fight this war forever. I'm convinced the only way it's going to be won is politically. I said 18 months ago, either mobilize totally, or get out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Democrats, though, don't agree on the strategy. Joining us this morning from Wilmington, Delaware, Senator Joe Biden. He's the senior Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
Nice to see you, Senator. Thank you for talking with us.
SEN. JOE BIDEN (D-DE): Good morning, Soledad. Happy to be with you.
O'BRIEN: Do you agree with Jack Murtha?
BIDEN: I can understand Jack's frustration, but I think it would be premature to pull out. The bottom line is Jack thinks this has been screwed up so badly it can't be won. I think if the administration is willing to change course, it can actually still be salvaged during this election period, and the vote on a constitution that's coming up in February.
But as 79 senators in the United States Senate said, Mr. President, we don't think you have a plan. There's a vote of no confidence. Give us a plan. Here is what the elements should be, and we laid it out. We'll see what the president does.
O'BRIEN: Before we get to details of your plan, let's talk some specifics. Give me your timetable for pulling troops out.
BIDEN: Well, the military has indicated they're not going to be able to keep this number -- you interviewed many generals, Soledad, including Barry McCaffrey, who points out that unless we completely mobilize the National Guard, unless we put people in for four and five rotations, we cannot maintain 160,000 people in region.
The military and the commanding general said we will draw down 50,000 troops next year, and then 100,000 will be dealt with after that. The question is whether we draw them down in the face of winning this effort, or we draw them down in the face of losing. We have to change strategy in order to draw them down in the face of winning.
And that requires, as Jack said, a political solution and we have to get the rest of the world involved like we did in Afghanistan in which the neighbors, the regional powers.
O'BRIEN: Before we walk through sort of the plan, I want to understand, under your plan, what do you envision? When the bulk of the troops, or a lot of the troops, or a significant number of the troops will be out of Iraq?
BIDEN: Well, that's above my pay grade. That is a military decision. I'm just telling you what will happen if we do not change the game plan here. If we do not get a consensus constitution, where the Sunnis buy into a constitution in February, then you're going to go from a low-grade civil war to a full-blown civil war and all of the kings horses and all kings men are not going to keep Iraq together.
What we need to do, is we need a political solution, we need to get the regional powers and the international powers involved like we did in Afghanistan, that produced Karzai. So we get the Shia and the Kurds to make some concessions, for the Sunnis to buy in. Without that kind of settlement as Murtha says, we will not win this militarily and our military tells us without that they will not win it militarily.
O'BRIEN: So, you think, at the end of the day, it's really a political solution, it's not a military solution?
BIDEN: At the end of the day, military is necessary, but not sufficient. The president needs a new plan. The president has to stop saying we're going to stay the course, not one day longer. He has to get a consensus constitution. He has to get the ministries up there and running; the people that turn the street lights on and off.
And he has to continue, finally, as is happening now, to train Iraqi forces and turn over responsibility while dealing with an insurgency along the border. We have six months, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Of that list what do you think has been the biggest failure and maybe the most important failure in the sense of without it, we cannot move forward?
BIDEN: Waiting too long to really train them up. You heard the Secretary of Defense still say we have 210,000 people trained. Not so; 210,000 people in uniform, 35 to -- 25,000 to 35,000 trained.
Number two, the failure to get the regional powers, as well as international powers involved to put pressure on the parties they can affect, like we did in Afghanistan to agree on a consensus constitution. Without that, there is going to be civil war.
We have to, in fact, broaden the impact of the other nations on the parties in question. I'm not the only one calling that for a year and a half or two years. The Secretary of State Kissinger, Schultz, Powell, they are all saying it. Why this administration refuses to move is beyond me.
O'BRIEN: Senator Joe Biden of Delaware. Nice to see you. Thanks for talking with us, Senator.
BIDEN: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Ahead, this morning CNN Senior Legal Analyst Jeff Toobin is going to talk with us. We will chat about Bob Woodward's testimony in the CIA leak probe. Will it change the course of the investigation? A look at that is ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Good morning. Welcome, everybody. Not a really nice morning, though, in New York as you look at a picture of Central Park. It is pretty but boy, clearly foggy, overcast. What a crummy day. We heard delays at LaGuardia before 7 o'clock this morning. They were 100 minutes plus delays, which does not bode well for the rest of the day.
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: So, happy holiday travels. Sorry.
SANCHEZ: We're going to be talking turkey this morning. And it's not about Bob Woodward's testimony, by the way.
O'BRIEN: That, too. But then also turkey.
SANCHEZ: We manage to include -- you ready for these? Got some numbers for you, 186,000 pounds of turkey, 82,000 pounds of stuffing, 108,000 pounds of ham, 21,000 pounds of pie.
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