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American Morning

Hussein Trial Resumes Monday; Holiday Shopping Tips

Aired November 25, 2005 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(NEWSBREAK)
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: As Saddam Hussein's trial resumes on Monday, a new CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup shows that 72 percent of Americans favor the death penalty for the former Iraqi dictator. Seventy-five percent don't believe, though, that executing Saddam Hussein will have any effect on the Iraqi insurgency.

Joining us this morning from London to preview next week's proceedings is CNN's chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour. Hey, Christiane, good morning to you.

Any thought that, in fact, this trial will be in jeopardy? For a while, they were debating whether, in fact, the defense attorneys would go through with it.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. The defense attorneys were extremely concerned because after the first day of court, which was October 19th, two of the defense attorneys were killed. And so the rest of them were very concerned. They asked for special security measures, special investigations and had threatened to boycott the proceedings. It appears, though, now, their concerns have been addressed and it appears they will be in court on Monday.

O'BRIEN: Christiane, let's talk a little about what's going to actually happen on that day. Is it going to be essentially formalities, as we have seen in the past? Or do you think that, in fact, the trial sort of officially begins when we start hearing from witnesses?

AMANPOUR: Well, they're suggesting that there may be witnesses this coming week. And, indeed, at least one witness perhaps on Monday. It's not clear. They're very, very closed-mouthed about what goes on in this trial, for many reasons, not the least of which is security.

But we've also heard that even if does resume, even if there are witnesses on Monday, it may only go for a few days and then adjourn again and specially adjourn during the run-up to the elections, when security is going to be diverted to the election situation.

O'BRIEN: So, obviously, security is this massive issue and concern. What are they doing to protect not only the witnesses, but the defense attorneys, too? I mean, everybody in the case, really.

AMANPOUR: Well, up until now, the prosecutors and the judges have had protection. The defense attorneys, we're told -- there's been an argument as to whether the defense attorneys were given protection, whether they refused it. In any event, they have asked for more protection.

The defense attorneys, of course, all along wanted it out of the country this trial, both for security reasons and, they say, in order to actually have a fair trial and one that conforms with international standards such as the one at the Hague. But that has been a no-go area for both the United States and the Iraqi government. They say, no, it has to take place in Iraq.

O'BRIEN: How long do you expect this trial is going to last? I mean, when you consider that there are so many charges in this case and so many defendants in the case, as well. As you point out, it starts and then it stops. When could it wrap up?

AMANPOUR: Well, they're saying months. And that would be a best-case estimate. This case particularly is the one about Dujail, where Saddam when his co-defendants, seven other people, are accused of mass murder of more than 148 Shiite men and boys in that village after an assassination attempt on Saddam Hussein many, many years ago. So this is in itself is a complicated case.

And then there are many other cases that are also very, very complex. For instance, the gassing of the Kurds in Halabja, the crackdown on Kurds and Shiites after the first Gulf War. So there are many cases. And this first one is, in itself, complicated.

O'BRIEN: In this first case, the Dujail assassination, really the terror to the city, who do they expect we're going to hear from? I mean, you have an entire town that's been damaged and devastated in the wake of this killings.

AMANPOUR: Well, they think they will get some of the village people who survived what happened there. They think, perhaps, they will have some former members of the Baath party organization. But, again, all that information is kept so close to the chest. We never know who the witnesses are going to be, partly for procedural reasons and also, a great deal of the reason is for security reasons.

And we may not even see them. Once they get into court, their faces may be obscured. Just as we don't see all of the prosecutors and all of the judges in court. Or perhaps for now on, many of the defense attorneys because they will ask for the cameras not to show their faces.

O'BRIEN: The last time we saw Saddam Hussein in court, as you're well aware since you were there, the audio problems were massive -- even though they spent a ton of money on this location. Have they fixed those problems now?

AMANPOUR: Well, we hope so. We obviously raised all the concerns that journalists would raise over that. It was very problematic, very tricky technically last time. It wasn't just the English translation -- which, there is no official English tanslation. And I really strongly believe that in a case of this magnitude -- even though the Americans have said this is an Iraqi process and it's under Iraqi sovereign law, therefore the official transcript should be in Arabic -- we really need, for posterity, for history, for clear reporting, an English translation. And that, in my view, is going to be one of the single most important things in order to be able to understand the proceedings and report them as fully and as accurately as we possibly can.

Then all of the other technical issues really need to be worked on. They have a lot of work to do to get it all ironed out. We'll see if after a month's respite since it began October 19th, whether they've got those technical glitches ironed out.

O'BRIEN: Yes, we'll have a chance to see it all on Monday. CNN's chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour. Christiane, thanks.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Programming note to tell you about. As many of you probably know, I usually anchor the 5:00 a.m. to 7:00 a.m. hour of "DAYBREAK." Well, "DAYBREAK" and AMERICAN MORNING are going to merge starting on Monday. And that means AMERICAN MORNING will now air 6:00 a.m. Eastern time to 10:00 a.m. Eastern time. So Miles and Soledad will have to get up earlier with me.

O'BRIEN: You're buying the coffee!

COSTELLO: OK, no problem.

But it's pretty exciting move so, hopefully, you'll join us on Monday at 6:00 a.m. Eastern. We'll also bring you, of course, Saddam Hussein's trial. We were just talking about that. And an exclusive interview with Lieutenant General Honore. Always a great interview.

O'BRIEN: Your friend.

COSTELLO: I know! He chastised me when I was in New Orleans.

O'BRIEN: In a friendly well.

COSTELLO: Well...

O'BRIEN: Kind of, sort of. As he does.

COSTELLO: He actually took a helicopter, came to where I was to personally criticize me.

O'BRIEN: An exception.

COSTELLO: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Constructive criticism is always good.

COSTELLO: Yes, he's a great guy, though.

(WEATHER REPORT) O'BRIEN: Ahead this morning, we got tips for the budget-minded shopper, which I am.

COSTELLO: Oh, yes, she is!

O'BRIEN: Hey, I'm not cheap. Just budget minded. I'm going to tell you how you can save a ton of money this holiday season.

First, though, here is a Thanksgiving greeting from our troops overseas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPT. MICHAEL PARIS: I just want to wish my wife, Mary, a Happy Thanksgiving and my two kids, Tiffany and Michael. Happy Thanksgiving.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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O'BRIEN: Look at that camera angle as folks wave there. We got live pictures coming to you from our affiliate KCTV in Kansas City, Missouri, as shoppers are already lining up, paying for some of their purchases, getting the day underway. It is Black Friday.

We certainly hope they are spending responsibly, because a day of shopping can mean a big ole dent in your wallet and making a dent in your shopping list but also could really be feeling it for the rest of the of the year on your credit card bills.

Ellen McGirt is a senior writer for "Money" magazine. She's got some practical tips to sticking to the budget. Nice to see you. Good morning.

ELLEN MCGIRT, SENIOR WRITER, "MONEY" MAGAZINE: Good morning.

O'BRIEN: You know, you think people are spending more this season?

MCGIRT: I think they're probably going to be spending more, but they're going to be spending it in different increment. Maybe smaller-priced gifts so they want to make sure to hit everybody. And, of course, philanthropy is also important. They're going to want to give to the causes that mean something to them. But with all these tempting treats out there from retailers, it's easy to overspend.

O'BRIEN: And everyone's sort of cheering. The holiday spirit, it's Black Friday!

MCGIRT: No, I know.

O'BRIEN: And you're always the one who's like, no, no, go slow, be responsible.

MCGIRT: I know. I'm the grinch that stole Christmas from the retailers. But I want everyone to survive the rest of the year.

O'BRIEN: Yes, that's true. This is a very small portion of the year. Let's talk a little bit about some of your tips. Because I think they're really great. And I'm going to run through them and I want you to explain.

First you say don't use credit cards. Well, if you're not -- I mean, obviously, you don't want to haul a chunk of cash to the mall, do you?

MCGIRT: Well, I wouldn't mind hauling a chunk of cash to the mall. There are other ways to shop, too, than you can use credit cards more efficiently. But studies show that you're spend at least 30 percent more...

O'BRIEN: Thirty?

MCGIRT: ... when you use your credit cards. You can justify it with miles. You can justify that you're tracking your expenses but...

O'BRIEN: You don't really feel it.

MCGIRT: But you really don't feel it. It's like just free money. If you don't have the cash, don't use it, don't spend it. And, of course, use your debit card. They're such good consumer protection these days for those.

O'BRIEN: Yes, that's true. All right. Don't sign up for the store cards. But, at the end of the day, you know, you get that great deal, you get 15 percent off your purchases. You've saved maybe $300 at the register.

MCGIRT: I know, but you've spend too much to justify it. They're spraying you perfume. It's just a heady moment. It's absolutely not worth it. You're spending too much for interest rates at those cards. And it can be a ding on your credit, which you don't think about later on in the year, which can cause you thousands.

O'BRIEN: Even if people go in saying, you know what, I'm going to pay it all off and it's not going to be a ding. You think people usually don't?

MCGIRT: They're not going to go for the second helping, either, but they do that, too. Stick to your budget.

O'BRIEN: Oh, you know me so well!

MCGIRT: Oh, darling!

O'BRIEN: Let's talk about shopping online. You recommend that. And that's the way I go, because it's just so easy.

MCGIRT: It's so convenient. But you can comparison shop, make sure you're getting the better deal. And, of course, there's like free or low cost shipping these days, so it -- and you can track your purchases better and you won't do that impulse spending. O'BRIEN: Never pay retail.

MCGIRT: Oh, everything is negotiable, anyway. We always believe that, right? But especially these days, you don't have to wait till the last minute to get bargains. We're seeing them all the way through.

O'BRIEN: Make a list, check it twice.

MCGIRT: Absolutely.

O'BRIEN: And I would imagine people spend a tremendous amount more when they don't have a list. They kind of free-form through the mall.

MCGIRT: Everything looks attractive this time of year. Figure out who you're going to want to buy for, what you want to spend, what are good possible gift choices for them. Comparison shop, stick to budget and give and give and have a wonderful time.

O'BRIEN: You have an amazing consumer rage survey to talk about. And we got to throw this up here. Take a look. Seventy percent say that they experienced some kind of rage in 2005. Thirty-three percent yelled, 15 percent attempting revenge, of which 1 percent, I believe, were successful. Thirteen percent cursed out the person they were dealing with. And 59 percent -- the bulk of people really just want an apology. These are your frustrations, really, with customer service, I think, a lot of the time.

MCGIRT: Right across the board. And this is in all part of our lives, it's not just the retail clerks. Think phone service, think financial services. These are the places we're really having a hard time getting the kind of service or...

O'BRIEN: Only 1 percent of the people get revenge. So what do you think is best way...

MCGIRT: They admit to it.

O'BRIEN: Right. What's the best way -- you know, you don't even want revenge. You just want what you want, whether it's an apology or the toy replaced or the money back on your credit card.

MCGIRT: That's exactly right.

O'BRIEN: Best way to get that?

MCGIRT: Don't get mad, get organized. You have to be -- make your case. You're going to have to make your case often. Figure out how you -- be a detective. You're going to have to figure out how this organization works. Everyone tracks a problem differently. Is it your last name, is there a customer number, is it a phone number?

Ask for an investigation. That's the magic word. If there's a really serious problem, ask the 800 person -- 800 call number -- who launches the investigation, how do I get to that department. And be patient. It takes a while. Some of these people in this survey spent 18 hours getting a problem resolved.

O'BRIEN: Wow, 18 hours?

MCGIRT: I know, I know. It's a complicated world.

O'BRIEN: But, you know, maybe it's worth it at the end. Ellen McGirt, senior writer for "Money" magazine. Nice to see you as always.

MCGIRT: Thanks for having me.

O'BRIEN: Happy Thanksgiving.

MCGIRT: You, too.

O'BRIEN: Thank you. Carol.

COSTELLO: I'm still getting over the 18 hours!

O'BRIEN: Probably feels like 40.

COSTELLO: I'd be, like, forget it!

Coming up, two married couples who have a lot to be thankful for this holiday season. We'll show you how they gave each other the gift of life and became really good friends in the process. This is AMERICAN MORNING.

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COSTELLO: Two couples sit down and have Thanksgiving day dinner together. It's not so unusual, right? But for these couples, it was different. They have the gift of life to be thankful for.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM PACKARD, NEEDED A KIDNEY: My toast to you, all of our friends and family that are here, all of our friends and family that are not here, but with us -- I say this to all of you with all my heart. Thank you for making this, the best of all Thanksgivings in my life, necessary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: That man, Tom Packard, so nice. Tom Packard and David Dorlen both needed both kidney transplants but their wives could not give a kidney because their blood types didn't match. So they swapped. It's really a fascinating story.

Joining me now, kidney recipients Tom Packard and David Dorlen and their wives Ann Heavner and Dr. Ros. I like that nickname. It's not really a nickname because you really are really a doctor, too. But thanks to all of you for being here. This is an incredible story.

So let's start with Ann. Because, really, you did the research and your husband needed a kidney. ANN HEAVNER, TOM'S WIFE: Right.

COSTELLO: And you came up with this organization. And take it from there.

HEAVNER: Well, I first read about it in "The Wall Street Journal" a year before we found out Tom needed a transplant. And I knew I couldn't be a donor because we weren't the same blood type. So -- and I knew this was the only option available to us. And I looked to see if there was a program in New York and, at that time, there wasn't. And I could only find three medical centers in the country that, at that time, were doing kidney swaps.

COSTELLO: So you eventually found this organization and that led you to this couple.

HEAVNER: No. Actually, what happened is that the person who developed it, Dr. Ratner (ph), eventually came to Columbia Presbyterian. And we got into the program there.

COSTELLO: OK.

PACKARD: We were the first ones in. They were -- came in about seven, eight, months later and we were the perfect match.

COSTELLO: That's just unbelievable. So you guys didn't know each other before this all transpired?

PACKARD: No, not at all.

COSTELLO: So, Dr. Ros, you take it from here. So you're in the hospital on the day that both gentlemen are going to get the kidney transplants. And what happens?

ROSALIND DORLEN, DAVID'S WIFE: So we arrive at 6:00 and we walk to the elevator to go to the sixth floor. And in the elevator are Tom and Ann, both each carrying a bag. So we introduced ourselves. We realized that while we weren't supposed to meet, we did meet on the elevator. And we didn't see them until four days after the surgery. And so that's the story.

COSTELLO: That's just amazing. And you both came -- you all came to be great friends. But let's talk about the kidney transplants. Because what a difficult thing to do in the first place. I mean, tell me about the process and how difficult it was for you to donate a kidney and for you to receive it, I guess.

DAVID DORLEN, NEEDED KIDNEY: To me, it was very easy to receive! Not a problem. I mean, I came along much later. Tom had gone through hell during his dialysis of seven or eight months.

PACKARD: I did not take well to it.

D. DORLEN: And basically, I went to my nephrologist this past January and February, and he said hey, your kidneys are failing. I knew for a year that they probably would fail. She said would be interested in a preemptive transplant? I didn't know what that meant. My -- they hadn't failed yet.

And I said, but I'll take it. She called the kidney -- Columbia Presbyterian transplant coordinator and said, hey look, I've got an A- positive donor -- that's my wife -- B-positive recipient. What have you got? And they said we've been looking for you. So I didn't have to wait at all. I was very lucky.

COSTELLO: OK. Tell me why you had such a difficult time?

PACKARD: Frankly, I don't know. But I had violent cramps. I had nausea. I would come home and Ann will tell you -- I just went to bed. I could not move. And it took me forever to get up in the morning to drag up to go to work because I would work through. You know, I came to the point where I was really wondering do I really want this quality of life?

And, of course, we had two disappointments before. We had two possible matches. Right up to the last, we thought we were going to have it done. And with the last CAT Scan, something showed up when we went to despair the valley again. So I got to the point where -- and I'm sure Ann did, too -- we didn't believe it would happen until they actually wheeled us in.

COSTELLO: But then it happened and you're feeling much better now.

PACKARD: The biggest miracle is not only am I feeling much better, I have never felt so well in my life. For instance, I was on six different blood pressure medications. I've thrown them all in the ash can. My high side is about 120 over 130. My low side is 70 over 80. And more importantly, even I went to the dentist the other day and he said I've never seen your gums in better condition! So Ros' kidney is working and taking over my whole life!

COSTELLO: Now, just tell -- I just have to know how strange this is that you know Dr. Ros' kidney is in you and -- that has to be kind of a strange thing.

PACKARD: Well, I'm upset about it. Because it's working so well and here she is a doctor with all these things. I want her to get smarter. She hasn't done a thing for me!

R. DORLEN: I'm working on a brain transplant!

COSTELLO: Well, I'm so glad you all became friends. Because what a terrific story. And thank you all for being here. And that was a great Thanksgiving Day toast.

PACKARD: Thank you.

D. DORLEN: It was our pleasure.

R. DORLEN: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Tom Packard, Ann Heavner, David and Dr. Ros. Thank you so much for joining us this morning -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: What a great story. What an amazing story.

Coming up this morning, the holiday shopping season officially here. So what are the hottest toys on every child's wish list? We're going to take you live to Toys R'Us in New York City's Times Square. Ooh, it's crowded -- ooh, yes, it's crowded in there. That's just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

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O'BRIEN: This Saturday night, 8:00 p.m. Eastern time, a special look at quotes that have transformed our world over the past 25 years. In today's sneak peek at "They Said What?!?!" with Larry King, we take a look at a famous confession from an NBA star.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOBE BRYANT, PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL PLAYER: I sit here in front of you guys, furious at myself, disgusted at myself for making a mistake of adultery.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There's no question Kobe Bryant was embarrassed. He was caught red-handed having an affair.

CATHERINE CRIER, ANCHOR, COURT TV: And there with his wife and flashing her new -- what was it, $4 million diamond ring on her finger and looking at him lovingly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It did cost him $4 million, didn't it?

CRIER: All I could see was managed athlete saying just as much as he thought he could say and still get away with it.

LARRY SMITH, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Kobe Bryant was in the spotlight from 18 years old on. How tough is that? No one of us really could know.

JIM MORET, CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, INSIDE EDITION: I can tell you that while Kobe Bryant was under investigation, I remember going to a Lakers game and I saw kids and women wearing Kobe Bryant jerseys. And I thought how fascinating. Who are our heroes?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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