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CNN Live Sunday
Eyewitness Describes California Bus Crash; Traveling Back Home After Holiday; Proceedings Expected to Speed Up in Hussein Trial; Many Still Missing in Gulf Coast; Intelligent Design Sparks Conflict
Aired November 27, 2005 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to CNN LIVE SUNDAY, I'm Tony Harris, in for Fredricka Whitfield. All of that and more after this check of the headlines.
"Now With the News," the Canadian government says four Western aid workers in Iraq have been kidnapped, including two Canadians. It has been reported, but not confirmed, that the other two victims were a Brit and an American. Stay with CNN throughout the evening as we gather more details on this developing story.
In Arizona, a massive traffic backup along Interstate 17 north of Phoenix, after a van flipped and ejected some of the passengers. Authorities report at least two fatalities. The busy highway is expected to remain closed for several hours.
In Washington State, the manhunt for two fugitives has spread beyond the city of Yakima. Police believe the escapees may have had help leaving the area. They also suspect that one of the men had access to weapons and should be considered very dangerous. Seven other inmates who escaped from the jail on Friday night are back in custody.
Millions of Americans are on the move today officially wrapping up the Thanksgiving holiday. At least one trip ended tragically when a Greyhound bus ran off of California's 101 highway, north of Los Angeles. A live report is just ahead.
Also, the nation's airports are bustling, as you can see. And these pictures from Reagan National near Washington. In just a minute, we will go live to New York to LaGuardia to see how air travelers are faring there.
And winter weather is a factor for travelers in several parts of the country. CNN meteorologist Brad Huffines will have the latest conditions and where you will need to be extra careful.
But let's begin with the deadly bus accident in California. CNN's Kareen Wynter joins us from the sheriff's office with the latest. Kareen?
KAREEN WYNTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Tony. We're awaiting a news conference updating this devastating crash. That's about to happen about an hour from now. Now investigators just cleared away the scene, the northbound lane of the 101 highway here. They tell us that it's still unclear right now, Tony, what exactly caused this accident that resulted in two fatalities. One person who was killed happened to be a woman who was seven months pregnant.
Now, we also spoke with an eyewitness here who described what happened. He said this happened during the early morning hours, that traffic was extremely light, and that this Greyhound bus was traveling behind him in the right hand lane. When according to this eyewitness, all of a sudden, this bus actually went into the left-hand lane to pass him, went back into the right and that it never stopped, Tony, that it just kept going off the shoulder of the road.
We just left the accident scene a short time ago where accident investigators were still trying to pinpoint what happened here. There were items from inside the bus that were still strewn all across the highway. There was also a chair, a passenger chair. And that's because the bus actually fell on the right hand side.
The victims who were trapped inside had to be plucked out, we were told, using the jaws of life. This eyewitness also that we spoke with described the fact that all of a sudden after this crash occurred, there was a first responder there who happened to be a firefighter and described his heroic efforts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was ladders inside the bus, he was helping people out. He backed up his truck, you know to the bus which meant that he wasn't afraid of any fires or anything like that. He's a real hero. I was 30, 40 feet back, you know?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WYNTER: Now, Tony, of the 44 passengers who were on this bus, there were 11 people who were injured, some less seriously, including this bus driver who, according to the California highway patrol, would be interviewed.
But again, no known cause right now as to what may have triggered this crash. Now the other passengers who were uninjured at the scene, while the Greyhound spokesperson said that three buses actually came into the area to ship them to their final destination, which is San Francisco. Tony.
HARRIS: And Kareen, let's talk to -- through this whole situation for a second here. I understand you mentioned just a moment ago about the frantic effort to get folks out of the bus, and the use of the jaws of life to extricate some of these folks.
But I know you have been trying to get up into the area for hours now. How difficult was it? We understand from some of the officials that Medivac helicopters, life-line helicopters were actually landing on the highway to scoop up folks and get them to hospitals for treatment.
WYNTER: It was an amazing scene. That's right. There were helicopters. Because of the location of where this crash occurred, and the urgency with those who were not only stuck inside, but those who were more seriously injured. There were helicopters that landed in the area. I can tell you Tony, driving up here from Los Angeles, it was smooth sailing until we got into Santa Maria, and it was quite tricky getting to that location. There were detour signs, the traffic backed up. And so we finally got in.
But it just gives you an idea of the extent of this accident and the fact that the northbound lane had to be shut down for so long. And so it supports the idea that emergency crews would have had to fly in to help those on the ground.
HARRIS: And Kareen, once again, one of the victims was pregnant.
WYNTER: Right. We were just told that two people died. Of them, one was a woman and that she was seven months pregnant and her unborn fetus also died. Not a lot more information on that end, Tony.
HARRIS: That's just so sad. All right, Kareen Wynter for us. Kareen, thank you. The sheriff's office is expected to hold a press conference in about an hour. We'll bring that to you live when it begins.
No matter where home is, we hope your holiday travel is safe and uneventful. CNN's Susan Lisovicz is at New York's LaGuardia Airport where so far passengers have come and gone without any major hassles. Is that to be believed, Susan?
SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, if seeing is believing, Tony, then in fact it is reality. That's really the headline because security officials tell me that they expect 6500 air passengers today. This terminal alone, this American Airlines terminal. That's more than twice what it normally does.
But the headline is, no lines, no problems. Everything is going very smoothly. Port Authority says in fact here at LaGuardia, minor delays, 15 minutes or less on all arrivals or departures at Kennedy Airport and Newark Airport, New York City's other two major airports, no significant delays to report.
Now, a very different picture about 10 miles west, the G.W. bridge where the good weather apparently not helping out the situation there. We're seeing major backups. I guess that's really not a surprise because this, in fact, is after all, one of the busiest travel days of the year.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANTILL WILLIAMS, AAA SPOKESMAN: We're expecting over 37 million people to be traveling. And that's actually up less than one percent from the previous year. So although we're seeing modest growth, very kind of almost flat growth, we are going to have the largest number of people on the highways and in the airports this year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LISOVICZ: A lot of the flyers we talked to Tony said they did as they were instructed. They got here early and consequently, they have a lot of time on their hands. Some folks say that's a good thing they get to spend additional time with their family. One family from Connecticut left their home at noon, got here at 2:00 and the flight wasn't until 6:00. They said like all normal days should be like this where it's just basically hassle free. Back to you, Tony.
HARRIS: What a weekend for you at the malls yesterday and the airport today.
LISOVICZ: I know.
HARRIS: If you don't show up on the job tomorrow, we'll understand why. Susan Lisovicz for us.
LISOVICZ: Well, the New York Stock Exchange is crowded, too.
HARRIS: That's right. That's right.
LISOVICZ: It will be a trend.
HARRIS: OK, Susan, thank you.
Well, winter is complicating the trip home in certain parts of the country, especially a severe storm front in the Midwest. CNN meteorologist Brad Huffines has all the details. Hi, Brad.
(WEATHER REPORT)
BRAD HUFFINES, CNN METEOROLOGIST: And of course the airport delays are now starting to pile up, Atlanta, an hour and a half delay, Chicago Midway, one hour and 15. Some of this is weather related. Other is just plain traffic related. Chicago O'Hare now about an hour 15, Dallas Ft. Worth now has been added to the list, a half an hour. And just hearing that Newark Airport because of heavy traffic 24 minutes of delays there. Tony, as we said, once one starts to pile up, we all start to pile up.
HARRIS: You said it, OK, Brad. Thank you.
In the fight for Iraq, some 400 U.S. forces at 150 Iraqi soldiers have launched a series of sweeps into the heart of the insurgency. Operation Tigers is focused on Ramadi, the capital city of turbulent Anbar province. The Marines have found supplies of heavy weapons and detained some suspected insurgents. There is no mention of casualties.
Reports out of Iraq say two U.S. lawmakers have been injured in a vehicle crash. Congressman Jim Marshall of Georgia is quoted by "The Associated Press" as saying the vehicle overturned on the road to Baghdad's airport. Marshall says Congressman Tim Murphy of Pennsylvania was airlifted out of Iraq to a military hospital in Germany for an MRI on his neck. And Missouri Representative Ike Skelton was sent to a hospital in Baghdad. Congressmen Marshall wasn't hurt. CNN is seeking further details.
One of the key figures in the new Iraq says human rights abuses have become reminiscent of what occurred under Saddam. In an interview with the "London Observer" newspaper, former interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi says Iraq is roamed by secret police, has secret bunkers and interrogations, even executions. Allawi is heading a political movement that's competing in next month's parliamentary elections. Iraq's security adviser calls Allawi's claims ridiculous.
Saddam Hussein's war crimes trial is set to resume tomorrow in Baghdad. The former Iraqi leader and seven co-defendants are accused in the deaths of more than 140 men after a failed assassination attempt in 1982. Senior international correspondent Nic Robertson reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Lawyer Aqil Al Kanani remembers his two brothers he says were killed by Saddam Hussein's security forces in 1979. Last month, Kanani and his family watched the opening day of Hussein's trial on TV. Now he wants the trial over so he can get answers about why his brothers Yassin (ph) and Taha (ph) were killed.
AQIL AL KANANI, IRAQI ATTORNEY (through translator): I really care to hear his answer, no matter if he would go on trial for my case or another case.
ROBERTSON: Beset by technical glitches last time, the trial faltered in its opening hours. Hussein grandstanded wasting time. Then his lawyers got a 41-day adjournment to study the charges that accuse Hussein and seven former regime allies of brutally repressing a 1982 assassination attempt.
KANANI: Speaking to me as an Iraqi and not as a lawyer, I would denounce the delays of the trial and I would demand the court to execute him immediately. But as a lawyer, I see it as a legitimate process.
ROBERTSON: For a while, even the return to court next Monday seemed to be in doubt. Since appearing at the trial, two defense lawyers were killed and another wounded in targeted assassinations. Only U.S. assurances to help investigate and offers of protection appear to have convinced them to come back. Still in jail waiting trial are other regime loyalists like Hussein's former Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz. His lawyer is worrying about when his client will see trial.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I saw him last time, he was very sick.
ROBERTSON: Aref (ph) has had death threats. His concern now is that the trial is unjust, not just because defense lawyers are being killed, but because they lack training in cases like crimes against humanity.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They must also send their lawyers also to England to America, to learn them about this case.
ROBERTSON (on-camera): When Hussein gets back in the dock, proceedings are expected to speed up. Witnesses could be called as early as the first day but within days, the trial could be put on hold again to minimize tensions ahead of national elections. Nic Robertson, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: We invite to you join CNN tomorrow morning for extensive coverage of Saddam Hussein's trial. Tomorrow is also a big day for CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING." Have you heard? Have you heard? The show expands to four hours beginning at 6:00 a.m. Eastern. Join the O'Briens, Soledad, Miles, they will have all of the news to start your day starting tomorrow at 6:00 a.m. That's a new time, 6:00 a.m. Eastern on CNN.
New Orleans takes a few more steps back on the road to recovery. But why are some Katrina victims still looking for loved ones? Up next, the roadblocks to reunions.
Plus this...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL JACK, B.C. TOURS: ... because evolution is not good science. It's a pseudoscience but it does one thing well. It gets rid of the need for God.
I was offended in a sense that he was talking to very young children and saying to the young children something that is absolutely false.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Intelligent design versus evolution. How much do you know? Where do you stand? We'll take an in-depth look at the debate when CNN LIVE SUNDAY continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: We update developments in New Orleans in our fast forward segment. Mayor Ray Nagin will swear in Warren Riley (ph) as the superintendent of police tomorrow night. Riley has held the job on an interim basis since former Chief Warren Compass (ph) resigned in the aftermath of Katrina.
Mayor Nagin scheduled a town hall meeting today for displaced city residents now living in Houston. About 20,000 people from the New Orleans area fled to Houston after hurricanes Katrina and Rita. And record 25 named storms, the 2005 Atlantic hurricane season will finally end on Wednesday, but forecasters say it is not unheard of for a tropical storm or even a hurricane to develop in December.
Even though much of the focus on the Gulf Coast has turned to rebuilding, an awful lot of people are still missing. CNN's Ed Lavandera has more on the thousands who haven't been heard from in months.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's slow and tedious work. A New Orleans fire department search and rescue team hunts for a missing person, possibly still left behind in this home. The dogs pick up on a scent but it's not clear what might be under the rubble.
STEVE GLYNN, NEW ORLEANS FIRE DEPARTMENT: There's just so much here that the dogs tend to get a little confused sometimes.
LAVANDERA: The rescue teams will return and continue their search removing the debris one piece at a time. This is what it takes to find the missing in Katrina's wake, searching one street, one house, one room at a time.
GLYNN: We're going to try to account for every person that we have listed as missing and we'll do whatever we can. We're going to clear every one of those houses if that's what it takes.
LAVANDERA: The number of people still missing is staggering. Just look at the Web sites from the National Centers for Missing Adults and Missing Children. These groups report that there are 6,627 people still unaccounted for in the New Orleans and Gulf coast region; 1400 of these cases are considered high risk. Those kinds of numbers are exactly why St. Bernard Sheriff Jack Stephens and other officials were angered when the Federal government called off active searches for bodies earlier this month. Teams are now back on the streets looking for victims, but not before many people return home to make gruesome discoveries.
SHERIFF JACK STEPHENS, ST. BERNARD PARISH, LOUISIANA: Unfortunately my worst fears were proven true in that people were coming home and discovering casualties in some cases, they were family members. Some cases were people they didn't know that sought refuge in a house.
LAVANDERA: The hope is the vast majority of people on the missing persons list are alive and well, just scattered around the country.
KYM PASQUALINI, NTL. CTR FOR MISSING ADULTS: If they made a report and they have since located their loved one, if they could just give us a call back and let us know that their loved one has been located, I am certain that we would close out many of these cases.
LAVANDERA: There is reason to be hopeful as Mary Margaret Mouledous just discovered. For the last three months, she's been looking for her friend Janet Drury. She just found out she evacuated to Texas.
MARY MARGARET MOULEDOUS, NEW ORLEANS RESIDENT: When she left, she didn't think to even bring her phone book with her with all the phone numbers and everything on it and she said but I've been thinking about you ever since it happened.
LAVANDERA: A phone call to her friend.
MOULEDOUS: Tell her this is Margaret.
LAVANDERA: And with that discovery, one more missing person is crossed off the list. But there are still 6,625 other names to go. Ed Lavandera, CNN, New Orleans.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: So what do you want your children to be taught about the origins of men and women? That question is sparking a fierce debate between supporters of two theories, intelligent design and evolution.
We're about to bring you an in-depth look at the beliefs and science behind the debate. In our coming segment, see how intelligent design has put a science professor in hot water at his east coast university. You'll also see how Darwin supporters are coming and going on the offensive. And we'll show you a new and controversial kind of family field trip, biblically correct tourism.
It's all ahead on CNN LIVE SUNDAY.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: "Now in the news," two passengers are dead in the Greyhound bus crash in Santa Maria, California. A fire department official in Santa Barbara County says the bus left highway 101, plunged down a 10-foot embankment and skidded 100 yards before stopping against a tree. At least seven other passengers were seriously hurt in that single vehicle accident. We expect to learn more in a news conference set for the top of the hour. We will of course bring that to you live.
As the Thanksgiving holiday comes to a close, it is a day for fond farewells as friends and family part ways. The major airports are bustling today. AAA estimates 31 million Americans have headed back home by car.
And the Canadian government says four western aid workers have been kidnapped in Iraq. A Canadian officials says two of those taken Saturday were Canadians. Other reports unconfirmed say the other two are an American and a Briton and that all four were abducted from a neighborhood in Baghdad.
The latest chapter in the long running conflict between science and religion involves intelligent design. It is a concept that some people would like to see join and maybe replace Darwin's theory of evolution in the nation's curriculums. We're going to take some time this hour to examine this debate from all angles.
Our faith and values correspondent Delia Gallagher has filed a series of reports. They first aired on CNN's "PAULA ZAHN NOW." Delia begins on campus with a tenured biology professor who is now ostracized by some of his faculty colleagues because he has embraced intelligent design.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He's an unlikely rebel, a tweedy biology professor who's found himself at the center of one of the year's most ferocious debates. Michael Behe is a major player behind intelligent design, the movement that's trying to bring the super natural into science. Behe was a chief witness in a Federal trial over a Pennsylvania high school wanting to include intelligent design or ID in biology classes.
MICHAEL BEHE, LEHIGH UNIVERSITY: A lot of people apply a caricature to intelligent design that I think is inaccurate.
GALLAGHER: To get some answers I went to Lehigh University where Behe has taught for 20 years. What I found was an academic uprising. Is he doing a disservice to science?
TAMRA MENDELSON, LEHIGH UNIVERSITY: In my view, yes.
GALLAGHER: Tamra Mendelson teaches evolutionary biology and like every other member of the Lehigh biology faculty has rejected intelligent design as unscientific and helped turn Michael Behe into a campus outcast. How long have you been at this university?
BEHE: I came here in 1985.
GALLAGHER: Back then, he was an ordinary scientist and Lehigh gave him tenure. That was before he started questioning whether Darwin's theory of evolution fully explained life on earth.
BEHE: When I started to realize that scientifically, it just didn't explain what it claimed to explain, that's when I started to have doubts. As science has progressed, at each stage, people have been astonished by the details in life.
GALLAGHER: Behe says you only have to look at the details to realize they were conceived and arranged by a supernatural power.
BEHE: You can tell that something has been arranged when we see a number of different parts that are put together to do something.
GALLAGHER: Take the flagella, that tiny little tail that bacteria use to move around.
BEHE: And it literally is the propeller. It's turned around and around.
GALLAGHER: It looks simple but it's not.
BEHE: If you didn't have a hook, the propeller would fall off. If you didn't have the drive shaft, the motor couldn't transmit any force. If you didn't have any one of dozens of different pieces here, it couldn't work. You'd have to have all these pieces all together before it worked at all. And in order to do something like that, that's beyond random mutation of natural selection. You need an intelligence to do that.
GALLAGHER: A more user-friendly example, the eye. Too complicated, Behe says, to be a biological accident that evolved over time.
Behe published his findings in a book, "Darwin's Black Box." Like most intelligent design writing, it doesn't speculate about who the designer is. But Behe has his own guess.
BEHE: I think the designer is God. I'm a Roman Catholic. You know, heck, you know, God has to be considered a major candidate for the role of the designer.
GALLAGHER: Other intelligent design advocates have other ideas.
BEHE: It's been suggested that maybe space aliens could be the designer, maybe time travelers. You know, maybe some human from the future comes back to the past. And, you know, certainly that's got some sort of difficulties there, but some physicists have suggested that time travel is possible.
GALLAGHER: Talk like that doesn't sit well with Tamra Mendelson.
MENDELSON: Science is restricted to the material world, and has been for 900 years. And it works really well that way. And, so, to propose a supernatural explanation just isn't scientific.
GALLAGHER: Behe doesn't actually teach intelligent design at Lehigh. Still, his colleagues say just his being there is bad for the university's reputation.
MENDELSON: Parents approach us and ask, what's going on? What's going on in your science department? And they are hesitant to send their children here, because they think their children won't get a good education.
GALLAGHER: Lehigh's biology department has even posted a statement on its Web site, distancing itself from Behe's research on intelligent design. His colleagues have taped anti-I.D. articles on their doors.
And though university president Gregory Farrington can't fire Behe, he won't say he's glad to have him on staff.
GREGORY FARRINGTON, PRESIDENT, LEHIGH UNIVERSITY: He's allowed, as a tenured member, to take positions that are controversial, and he's doing that. And, so, whether I'm happy or not really isn't relevant.
GALLAGHER (on camera): Do you feel ostracized?
BEHE: Sure.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHE: Yes. That's OK. You know, c'est la vie. You know, what good is it in arguing for an idea that everybody accepts already?
(LAUGHTER)
GALLAGHER: A question a lot of scientists throughout the centuries have faced, whether their theories have panned out or not.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: The growing debate over intelligent design has some scientists going on the offensive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER (voice-over): Niles Eldredge is a scientists fighting back. Intelligent design, he says, is a dangerous and unscientific fraud.
(on camera): Are you a Darwinist?
NILES ELDREDGE, CURATOR, AMERICAN MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY DARWIN EXHIBIT: I'm a Darwinist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Find out how he's fighting the I.D. tie when the best of CNN continues, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: As intelligent design attracts attention in the debate over the origins of life, Darwin's defenders are starting to fight back. We continue now with our best of CNN reports on the battle over evolution.
Our faith and values correspondent Delia Gallagher looks at how some scientists are taking the offensive to argue for Darwin's ideas.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GALLAGHER (voice-over): For thousands of years, most people accepted one truth: God created everything, man, plants and animals, all separate and distinct.
Then Charles Darwin came along and shattered all that. Life didn't begin in the biblical Garden of Eden, he wrote. Human beings evolved slowly from lower life forms, along with chimpanzees, for example. And that became the established truth.
But now there's an anti-Darwin guerrilla war, bitterly raging across the country.
BEHE: The evolution of humanity, I think, it's simply an open question at this point.
GALLAGHER: Michael Behe teaches biology at Lehigh University in Pennsylvania. He's a main proponent of intelligent design, the theory embraced by growing numbers of religious believers.
BEHE: The argument is not that Darwinian evolution doesn't explain anything; it's that it doesn't explain everything. GALLAGHER: Intelligent design holds that life is too complicated to be the result of Darwin's random mutation and natural selection, that some organisms were clearly designed by a supernatural hand, which most modern scientists understand as code for a return to biblical creationism.
ELDREDGE: And there is no way to test notions of the supernatural. And, so, it's just not even appropriate to even try to do that.
GALLAGHER: Niles Eldredge is a scientist fighting back. Intelligent design, he says, is a dangerous and unscientific fraud.
(on camera): Are you a Darwinist?
ELDREDGE: I'm a Darwinist.
GALLAGHER (voice-over): Eldredge is organizing a major new exhibit on Darwin at the American Museum of Natural History in New York.
ELDREDGE: So, you can see the variation in shell shape.
GALLAGHER: Darwin was fascinate by the differences he observed among members of the same species, how giant tortoises, for instance, developed differently in different places. He concluded that animals change over time, adapting over centuries to changing conditions, and that life, all life, began with one common ancestor.
The idea that humans were close cousins to monkeys, distant relatives to earthworms, horrified a lot of people in Darwin's time. It still does today. And that's made intelligent design more appealing. Even though only a small minority of scientists back intelligent design, they are getting a lot of attention, so much attention that mainstream scientists now have to spend a lot of time arguing against it.
The new Darwin exhibit includes video testimonials from some of America's top scientists.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEN MILLER, BROWN UNIVERSITY: ... that, without evolution to tie it together, biology is little more than stamp collecting.
FRANCIS COLLINS, DIRECTOR, HUMAN GENOME PROJECT: Without the framework of evolution to understand what we look at every day, it would make no sense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: Behind the scenes at the museum, researchers are working to strengthen what they call an already ironclad theory.
(on camera): Where are we?
NOVACEK: So, we're in a new collection in the museum. This is the frozen tissue lab. This vat is filled with liquid nitrogen. And you see, of course, it has a very vaporous element to it, very cold.
GALLAGHER (voice-over): Up to a million specimens are stored in giant vats of liquid nitrogen, a high-tech petri dish. The aim? To create a library of all the Earth's species.
By studying these little bits of tissue, scientists continue to find new links among species, new evidence for Darwin's theory that all life descends from that one common ancestor.
NOVACEK: We are more than 95 percent similar in our DNA to chimpanzees. So, we share a lot with them.
GALLAGHER: Scientists say, the evidence is so strong, that there's just no ducking it.
But Mike Behe says mainstream scientists shouldn't be quite so certain.
BEHE: Well, I am very, very confident that intelligent design will continue to become more and more credible.
GALLAGHER (on camera): What do you think Darwin would have thought of this whole discussion?
ELDREDGE: I think Darwin would not be surprised, but he would be disappointed.
GALLAGHER: Darwin's idea shook the established view of how life began. Now it is the established view. But, for many people, the idea that humanity is merely a biological accident is still just too hard to accept.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: So where do supporters of creationism go to prove their beliefs? The local zoo or natural history museum?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACK: According to evolution, millions of years ago, there were dinosaurs and lizards. And millions of years later, they turned into things like turtles and iguanas and ostriches and polar bears and chimpanzees. And right here is all of the evidence for what they believe. What's here? Nothing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Up next, scientific tours designed to challenge accepted scientific theory.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Opponents of evolution are pushing hard to get intelligent design accepted in the nation's classrooms, but they aren't waiting around until their preferred approach to science is the norm. In fact, some evolution opponents are taking school children straight to the source, conducting tours, at zoos and science museums.
Here's our final best of CNN report from our faith and values correspondent Delia Gallagher.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GALLAGHER (voice-over): The Fryberger family drove three hours this morning to get a day-long lesson in creationism.
RUSTY CARTER, B.C. TOURS: OK, B.C. Tours, let's go on and get started.
GALLAGHER: The Frybergers and about a dozen other families are on a very unconventional tour.
CARTER: So B.C. stands for biblically correct, as opposed to being politically correct, right? So, we're B.C., not P.C.
GALLAGHER: Rusty Carter runs a flooring business. And on weekends, he plays tour guide. Today, the Denver Zoo is a classroom. The lesson? Straight from the Bible.
CARTER: What is creation? What do you mean by creation?
MIRIAM FRYBERGER, TOURIST: Creation is when God chose to make the world and he did it specifically, and he put thought into it, and designed it all so that it would work just right together.
GALLAGHER: Here, a glimpse into the Garden of Eden.
CARTER: Oh, here we go guys, a cheetah.
GALLAGHER: And what Adam and Eve saw there, we see right here, at the zoo.
CARTER: It's very simple. We think that the hippos were designed always to be a hippo, and hippos have always been hippos, and elephants have always been elephants. So there's been no change from one animal to a different animal.
GALLAGHER: Rusty admits there was one major change. When God cast Adam and Eve out of the garden, the peaceful creatures became, well, not so peaceful.
CARTER: The aggressiveness and the fighting and the death is a result of sin. Whereas the evolutionists would say that's survival of the fittest.
CHARISSA FRYBERGER, TOURIST: There's a lot of evidence if you look at the way animals are.
GALLAGHER: As Christian home schoolers, the Frybergers really aren't learning anything new.
C. FRYBERGER: There's lot of evidence that he could be going through that I don't see him doing.
GALLAGHER: But it is enough for Linda Haskins.
LINDA HASKINS, TOURIST: My kids are in public school and they hear a lot about evolution. And I want them to know more because we teach creation and we want them to see what God has done.
GALLAGHER: At mid-day, the group pauses for a prayer of thanks.
CARTER: Father, Lord, thank you so much for the animals that you've created. Help us to glorify you in your precious name, Amen.
GALLAGHER: And then the families are off to the next stop on this creationism tour, the Denver Museum of Nature and Science.
TYSON THORNE, B.C. TOURS: Does everybody who wears a white lab coat, are they a scientist? Depends on what you believe.
GALLAGHER: Here, B.C. guides Bill Jack and Tyson Thorne take over.
JACK: It is not the evidence that is in question. It is what? The interpretation of the evidence. Fossils are -- boring. They're piles of dead things, right?
GALLAGHER: In the background, silent, fuming, the museum's vice president. Richard Stuckey's been a chief curator for nearly 20 years.
JACK: Are you going to tag along with us?
RICHARD STUCKEY, VICE PRESIDENT, MUSEUM OF NATURE AND SCIENCE: That's right.
JACK: That's fine and dandy.
GALLAGHER: Bill and Tyson spend the next two hours trying to dismantle Darwin's theory of evolution.
THORNE: According to evolution, millions of years ago, there were dinosaurs and lizards. And millions of years later, they turned into things like turtles, and iguanas, and ostriches, and polar bears, and chimpanzees.
And right here is all of the evidence for what they believe. What's here? Nothing.
GALLAGHER: The museum's displays, mere fiction, just artwork.
JACK: This exhibit is called, how old is the earth? How old is the earth?
GALLAGHER: Billions of years, says science. Not so, says B.C. Tours.
THORNE: We can look at the genealogy that's contained both in genesis and in Matthew. We can piece enough history together with enough families to trace our heritage all the way back to Adam and Eve. And from the time of the fall on forward, roughly 6,000 years has passed.
GALLAGHER: Most scientists will tell you that's nowhere near the time needed for evolution.
JACK: Because evolution is not good science. It's a pseudoscience, but it does one thing well. It gets rid of the need for God.
GALLAGHER: By this point, Richard Stuckey is fed up. He's too polite to interrupt the tour, but he can't hide his dismay.
STUCKEY: I was offended in a sense that he was talking to very young children, and saying to the young children something that is absolutely false.
GALLAGHER: He takes us behind the scenes, to the big bone room where Charles Darwin keeps watch over dinosaur fossils, millions of years old.
STUCKEY: These are authentic bones. They still have some of the original organic material preserving them. This isn't art, this is real. This is authentic stuff.
GALLAGHER: But in this debate, one man's fact is another man's fraud.
JACK: It comes down to a question of, whom are you going to trust on this issue? It's what it really is. Is it going to be man's word or God's word? That's what you've got to ask. Whom are you going to trust?
GALLAGHER: At the end of the day, that's the fundamental question. How ordinary people view the universe in which they were born.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: And for updates on the debates over evolution and intelligent design, log on to the education page of our Web site at CNN.com. And up next, Jerry takes on Larry.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JERRY SEINFELD, COMEDIAN: You don't have to put it back.
LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR: OK, I'm just trying to do it right.
SEINFELD: This is really like being with your relatives.
KING: I'm very happy for you, Jerry.
SEINFELD: Thank you. KING: Do you miss doing the show?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Find out the answer to that question when CNN LIVE SUNDAY continues. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: See George Washington bridge there, Fred.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, I love that bridge.
HARRIS: Fredricka Whitfield's going to be coming up in just a couple of minutes. I'm so happy to see you.
WHITFIELD: Good to see you too.
HARRIS: It has been said many times before, one of television history's most wildly successful comedies was a show about nothing. Not so or so insists the show's co-creator, none other than Jerry Seinfeld. He spoke with CNN's Larry King last week.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Do you miss doing the show?
SEINFELD: Certain parts of it. You know, I miss being on the stage with the gang, you know, and we would make up stuff sometimes and laugh and -- and I miss writing with Larry and there was -- we had a great feeling together. We really all thought we were, you know, we enjoyed each other's humor.
KING: What don't you miss?
SEINFELD: It was very difficult. You know, it was -- the workload was, you know, heavy.
KING: Why did that show work? Because it was about nothing. It really was.
SEINFELD: Well, I don't know what that means. What does that mean? People say about nothing. There's nothing about nothing that anybody wants to watch. It was just that we did not restrict ourselves to anything.
KING: Slice of life. Well, everything's a slice of life.
SEINFELD: What's not a slice of life? This is a slice of life.
KING: Right. So what was --
SEINFELD: Why was the show so successful? I'll give you the same answer Gleason would always give when they asked him the question about "The Honeymooners." It's funny, funny. And you what? People say they're always surprised that the show, the subject matter worked for a broad America. And it wasn't the subjects, it was the funny. Funny translates.
KING: Funny is funny.
SEINFELD: Funny translates to every language, every demographic.
KING: Wasn't a hit immediately, right?
SEINFELD: No, not for four years. These were the first two hit seasons.
KING: Six and seven.
SEINFELD: Five and six. We were not a hit for four years.
KING: Why did they keep it on?
SEINFELD: We had a small loyal group that stuck with us.
KING: Why did the network keep it?
SEINFELD: That of the group. They were the ones watching it.
KING: Those guys.
SEINFELD: The network was watching it.
KING: The suits liked you.
SEINFELD: Yes.
KING: No really though, that would not happen today, let a show...
SEINFELD: ... to be honest with you, it was a desirable demographic. It was a spending group, whatever that means.
KING: Yes, 18 to 45.
SEINFELD: Yes, whatever it is. They understand, they analyze these things. We had that group watching us, so that kept us on.
KING: Were you shocked when the...
SEINFELD: ... shocked.
KING: When they voted for the 50 greatest TV shows of all time and Seinfeld won?
SEINFELD: Yes, that was a little overwhelming.
KING: Come on, that had to blow your mind.
SEINFELD: That blew my mind. That blew my mind. I was a little embarrassed. Too much -- that's embarrassing.
KING: You also include a DVD extra called Signamation (ph). SEINFELD: Yes, the animation. I talked about that. You're not listening to me, Larry.
KING: You talked about doing animation on the DVD?
SEINFELD: It's on the DVD.
KING: On this DVD?
SEINFELD: It's on the DVD.
KING: Animation?
SEINFELD: Animation.
KING: Of?
SEINFELD: The DVD.
KING: No, no.
SEINFELD: No, we took some scenes from the series, my television series.
KING: Seinfeld.
SEINFELD: Seinfeld, and we animated them. It's a cartoon.
KING: For what reason?
SEINFELD: No reason.
KING: Just to do it, right?
SEINFELD: Yes, it's funny. There were scenes where we described things that had happened to us, and we didn't have the money to go out on the set and actually do it. They took scenes like that and they create what you would have seen.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: And tonight on "LARRY KING LIVE," reporter Bob Woodward on the CIA leak investigation, the famed Watergate sleuth is in the thick of things once again. That's "LARRY KING LIVE" tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern, 6:00 Pacific.
And CNN continues its focus on breaking news. In the next hour, we expect to go live to a news conference in Santa Barbara, California, with the very latest on this morning's fatal bus accident.
And on our front lines, an intriguing look at a soldier who lost his leg at Iraq, but he is back home and pursuing his dreams with the help of a very generous professor.
More of CNN LIVE SUNDAY with Fredricka Whitfield, in the house.
WHITFIELD: In the shadows.
HARRIS: Yeah right, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: From coast to coast, Mother Nature makes holiday home to a lot of folks, a bit tougher. From airport delays to highway standstill. It's November 27th and you're watching CNN LIVE SUNDAY.
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