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American Morning

Saddam Hussein Trial on Hold Yet Again; Conversation With Lieutenant General Russel Honore

Aired November 28, 2005 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(NEWSBREAK)
(WEATHER REPORT)

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's talk about the Saddam Hussein trial. It's on hold yet again after just a half day of testimony, a little bit of lunch, and then it was on hold again. There were plenty of fireworks inside the court this morning in case you missed it. Nic Robertson was there. He was in the courtroom for the proceedings.

Nic, a couple of thoughts here. First of all, you get the sense the judge wasn't fully in control today. What did you think from your up-close-and-personal view?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTL. CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was clear from the morning when Saddam challenged him on this whole issue that Saddam Hussein had been forced to take an elevator, and that wasn't right, and the judge said, well, I'll have a word with the guards about it, and Saddam Hussein challenged him, and -- said ordered them. You're an Iraqi. They're outsiders. They're foreigners. They're occupiers. But we had --

I don't think anyone in the courtroom really had an idea of what to expect in the afternoon. The judge gave the defense lawyers and the defendants an opportunity to speak over lunch, and they came out, the defendants came out really strong after lunch, and the judge didn't really seem to be able to stop that. Taha Yassin Ramadan, former vice president, complained that he didn't like his court- appointed lawyers. His lawyer is the one who had been killed. The other had left the country.

And then one of the defendants, Saddam Hussein's former chief judge, stands up and says, I've had death threats in this courtroom. And again, the judge not really able to find a way not to listen to what he had to say, and then Saddam Hussein stood up. And the judge was sort of hit by this barrage, Miles, and he didn't really seem to have a way, a legitimate way, or any other way, of sort of putting it down and seeming to be fair and unbiased -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Nic, we have talked to some of the attorneys that have counseled him, you know, and the term they use here in the U.S. is you don't want to become a Judge Ito, referring to the O.J. Simpson trial, where you just completely lose control.

But on the other hand, you don't want the whole proceeding to look like a complete kangaroo court. So he really has to walk a tightrope.

But what adds to the whole mix here is the general feeling of insecurity, quite literally, that surrounds this whole trial, and that is at the root of a lot of the issue here.

ROBERTSON: It is. I mean, that's why the former vice president stood up and complained that he didn't have the right lawyers. That's why the former U.S. attorney general Ramsey Clark was in the court, to talk about that issue, although he didn't get a chance to talk about it, but that in itself led to delays in the proceedings.

You know the judge was sort of trying to take control, and trying to drive things along, and saying to the various defendants when they stood up and put forward cases, well, OK, write to me about it, put it down in writing, tell me about it, trying to move the proceedings along, and then they jumped to other issues. We have been writing to you, and you're not getting the letters, which sort of gives you an indication, perhaps, behind the scenes, there are other issues that need to be addressed, principally communication between the defendants and judge.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, Nic, let's talk about that. Do we know for a fact that there really is communication that isn't getting to the judge? Because that's a fundamental issue, obviously.

ROBERTSON: Saddam Hussein said that he's sent the judge three or four different memos, one at night. He said he stayed up until 4:00 in the morning writing some lengthy memo. He talked about 25 pages of memo. The judge said that he hadn't received it.

As to the death threats that were talked about in the court, that defendant said he'd also sent the judge letters, and the judge said he hadn't received those either.

So if they're telling the truth and, of course, the whole legal process here is to assess what they've done and have they told the truth about it, but if they're telling the truth on these issues, then it does suggest that there's this breakdown in fundamental communications.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, all kinds of questions about whether it's possible to have a fair trial there right now, given all that we've just talked about.

Nic Robertson watching it for us. He was there in the courtroom.

We actually expect very shortly to see a news conference from the leading judge there, Judge Rizgar Mohammed Amin, and he is the man who was trying to control that courtroom today, and as we just discussed had some difficulty. He was clearly on the defensive almost from the get-go when Saddam Hussein himself took the offensive.

As you can imagine, he's thought long and hard about how to control this courtroom. And he was put to the test today.

Anyway, we're going to hear from him shortly. As soon as we get that in, we'll bring it to you -- Soledad.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Lieutenant General Russel Honore took charge in the chaotic days after Hurricane Katrina. Well, today the general is back in his previous job, training National Guard troops for Afghanistan and Iraq, and he's had a little time to reflect on the situation in New Orleans, and tell us what it was like when his boots first hit the ground there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LIEUTENANT GENERAL RUSSEL HONORE, COMMANDER, JOINT TASK FORCE- KATRINA: Well, I saw a lot of people who needed help. We all did. The National Guard on the ground, led by the General Landreneau and his team, were marshalling the logistics as well as bringing in reinforcement National Guard from throughout the United States, which was to itself a great success.

I saw search and rescue teams being deployed, and the Coast Guard leading the effort in the helicopter search and rescue.

All of those teams were working well together. What we did collectively with the General Landreneau and the head of the Coast Guard, Admiral Duncan, was to refocus and make sure everybody had good priority of work -- and working together with General Landreneau and the first responders was to get it focused.

Now, what we saw -- the answer to your question -- was a lot of people living in some very tough conditions in and around the Superdome and at the convention center.

And then the logistics problem: As you know, the Superdome was surrounded by four to five feet of water. And those residents of New Orleans who lived in that condition know that was a very hard times.

But my hat goes off to the people who were in those conditions, because they tried to take care of one another and showed a lot of resilience in some very trying times, until the rescue was completed. And a lot of that credit goes to the Coast Guard, the National Guard, and the first responders from throughout America who came and put their lives on the line to try and get those citizens out of there.

Over.

M. O'BRIEN: General Honore, it's Miles O'Brien here. A question for you about your unexpected fame: Are you comfortable with it? I imagine you get stopped a lot as you walk through airports and so forth. You had dinner at the White House with Prince Charles and Camilla. We're dying to know how that was. That must have been fascinating conversation.

What's that ancillary aspect of all this been like for you?

HONORE: Well, it gives us an opportunity to tell the warrior's story -- about our soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines. And I only represent them. Anything that has been focused on me has been as a result of the work of those soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marine, coastguardsmen who do their job, day in and day out around the world, defending America.

And I'm pleased to represent them.

Over.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: General Honore, you are so gracious and so modest -- this is Carol Costello -- I wanted to ask you -- I have heard people -- they've come up to me and said, "You know, General Honore? He might make a great president, maybe."

I mean, have people come up to you and said things like that? HONORE: I think those are all in good humor. I'm focused on being the general.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Oh, come on. What have they said to you? What have they said to you, General?

HONORE: I'm the commander of the 1st Army, and that is -- my hands are full with that right now as we train troops for Iraq and Afghanistan. And that's my number 1 mission, and we'll stay focused on that.

As we extend our prayers and well wishes to those Americans who have been displaced -- but I heard your question, but I'm very comfortable being a 1st Army commander.

Over.

(LAUGHTER)

M. O'BRIEN: Are you a political -- are you registered with any particular party? Are you a political creature?

COSTELLO: Could you run one day?

HONORE: I'm a member of the United States Army, and I'm proud to be a soldier.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: I was so frustrated by that.

S. O'BRIEN: In other words, the dodge.

COSTELLO: He was good at that time.

M. O'BRIEN: What do you think? 2008?

S. O'BRIEN: No.

M. O'BRIEN: Not that soon?

S. O'BRIEN: No. No.

M. O'BRIEN: 2012.

COSTELLO: I think he'll do something, though, like maybe he'll become just a celebrity and make lots and lots of money.

M. O'BRIEN: That would undermine his case for being president a little bit.

S. O'BRIEN: It pays better.

M. O'BRIEN: But the pay is better.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, exactly.

COSTELLO: Yes, exactly. But he'll be around for a long time, I suspect.

S. O'BRIEN: I would agree with you on that.

M. O'BRIEN: Very interesting guy.

S. O'BRIEN: Ahead this morning, Andy is "Minding Your Business." That's just ahead. Stay with us.

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M. O'BRIEN: OK, this is a riddle we first brought you -- when what was it?

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Two weeks.

M. O'BRIEN: Two weeks ago. Where in the world is the most expensive piece of real estate? And you would answer New York, or Hong Kong or some such, Paris. You would be wrong. The answer is in?

SERWER: Spencer, Indiana.

M. O'BRIEN: Spencer, Indiana.

SERWER: Spencer, Indiana, the most expensive real estate in the world. We'll get to that in a second.

Let's talk about the markets, first of all, and check out the Big Board down on Wall Street, see how trading is going this morning, down two on the Dow Jones Industrials.

Miles told me I might jinx the market this morning, and Miles is right.

Merck was down a little bit based on the layoff news we've been telling you about. Apple is up over $70 this morning in early trading. The Nano is selling like hotcakes over Thanksgiving weekend. Google and Wal-Mart also active.

We did talk about this story. A one-inch square piece of land, and here's one-inch square. I drew it. Can you see that? I don't know if we can actually see it. It's very small. It's one-inch square. A piece of land in Spencer, Indiana for sale, and it has been sold to a real estate developer named Andy Gutman (ph) of Michigan. He says, "As we explore development of this parcel, we are certainly contemplating subdividing it. Here's the Google Earth. Ted Fine bringing it to us from the control room. Going to right down into Spencer, Indiana near Cataract Lake, which is...

M. O'BRIEN: Hard to see that lake. Hard to see that lake.

SERWER: Yes, it's a very small. I'll tell you how this happened. It was part of an estate. People wanted rights to the lake, and someone divided it up and it got possessed by the county. Now the county had to sell it, ten miles northwest of Spencer. And here's actually an interesting wrinkle. Now county officials acknowledge they haven't actually identified the specific piece of land. They say they are within a couple of yards, but no one wants to spend the extra $500 to actually triangulate to that one little spot.

M. O'BRIEN: You have to use teenie little surveyor spikes on that one, wouldn't you?

SERWER: You would. Toothpicks.

M. O'BRIEN: But they paid $1,700 bucks, was going to subdivide. But if you extrapolated $1,700 for the postage stamp out to acre, it would be?

SERWER: About $10 billion, and that's we're calling it the most expensive real estate in the world.

M. O'BRIEN: There you go. Spencer, Indiana. Impress your friends at a cocktail party next time you see them. They will be wrong, right?

Soledad?

S. O'BRIEN: Thanks, Miles.

Well, you know, absolutely nothing says normal like alligators, and monkeys and elephants, right?

Well, just ask the folks in New Orleans. We're going to talk with the curator of the just-reopened Audubon Zoo as continue right here --- and his friend, that large elephant -- right here on AMERICAN MORNING. We're back in a moment.

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S. O'BRIEN: Folks in New Orleans finally seeing some of their old friends again. Sixty thousand people turned out this weekend for the reopening of the Audubon Zoo to see the wild animals they've come to know and love.

Dan Maloney is the general curator and he joins us this morning from the zoo in New Orleans. Nice to see you, Dan. Good morning to you. Who's your friend?

DAN MALONEY, AUDUBON ZOO CURATOR: Hi, Soledad. How you doing?

S. O'BRIEN: I'm doing great. How you doing?

MALONEY: This is Pania (ph). We're doing great. This is Pania and she's a 10,000 pound Asian elephant.

S. O'BRIEN: Oh, she's beautiful.

MALONEY: Trunk up.

S. O'BRIEN: Oh, my goodness. Oh, wow.

MALONEY: She's a good girl.

S. O'BRIEN: Oh, she's beautiful. Just one, I know, the many animals that people came out -- 60,000 people, is that right?

MALONEY: It was overwhelming. We were very, very surprised to see that many people, but delighted.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, I bet you were. Now, you opened the -- the zoo up for free because you really wanted to bring people back. But, of course, you guys -- financially that's a tough call. You really can't afford that, can you?

MALONEY: Well, it was our gift to the city. Good girl. It was our gift to the city. We wanted our -- an opportunity to welcome people back and let people know that we are indeed here and the animals are alive and well.

S. O'BRIEN: All right, Pania, why don't you head off, Pania? And I'm going to ask you, Dan, to head on over to the flamingos. I want you to show me the flamingos in a moment. Tell me about the damage while you're heading over there. Tell me about the damage that you guys suffered in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.

MALONEY: Well, we were -- we got a lot of trees down. We had lots and lots of debris everywhere. We had roof damage. But we were fortunate. The collection remained intact and people were safe as well.

S. O'BRIEN: You have no animals that perished during the hurricane?

MALONEY: We had one raccoon and two young river otters. And we're still missing a bird that we assume probably died during the storm.

S. O'BRIEN: Oh, but gosh, I guess, you know, it could always be worse. Tell me a little bit about the flamingos we're seeing behind you. Boy, those are beautiful animals.

MALONEY: They are. We made a decision to leave certain animals out that would normally be out. Though this exhibit actually has its own built-in hurricane shelter. And we let the animals choose whether they wanted to go in rather than box them up and putting them in an area that they weren't familiar.

S. O'BRIEN: And that strategy, I guess, was a really good one, considering the wallop you took and how they seem to have survived.

I know you wanted to open up the zoo to the public as kind of a community service. How did that go? Do you think people were grateful for what you did?

MALONEY: We had so many people thank us yesterday. And, you know, it was important for us. It was important to show the region. It was important to show the nation and it was important even for us to know that we're here and we're, indeed, alive and well. And I think that was such an important message. Children relate to animals and in something as incomprehensible as a hurricane, I think for them to know that their favorite animals were OK and fine, I think that helps comfort them.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, I would think it would give everyone a sense that it's all going to be OK and that everybody's going to be able to clean up and rebuild, maybe some faster than others. How tough has it been, the clean-up and the rebuilding of all of the displays?

MALONEY: Well, you know, we've been spending almost every moment since the hurricane almost three months ago, just cleaning up, trying to take down the trees that were on top of fence lines and on top of exhibits. And that's all we've been doing. Pressure-spraying the zoo, clearing out mud and other debris. But we never had any water here, so we were really, really lucky.

S. O'BRIEN: You did it with three-quarters of your staff gone, right? I understand you got about 200 employees. Normally you have about 800.

MALONEY: Yes, that's probably the saddest part of this is we have such great people and I'm hoping we can get them back as soon as we can, but there's so much that's outside of our control. We need to know that the city's back. And as soon as we can start brining people back on, we will.

S. O'BRIEN: Do the animals respond to people coming back? Do you think they realize that sort of something's happened and the zoo's reopened, or am I being a little whoo whoo whoo about it?

MALONEY: Well, I think they absolutely did notice.

S. O'BRIEN: Really?

MALONEY: We realized -- absolutely. The animals like the elephants, the great apes, the orangs, the gorillas, the monkeys. These animals noticed how still the zoo was. It was so quiet. And when people started coming back in, they were alert. Even the giraffes paid attention. Their heads were up, looking out. And a zoo is not complete without our guests. It's a concept as much as it is a facility. And without the guests, you don't complete the picture.

S. O'BRIEN: Well, it was a big weekend for you. And I'm sure everyone said thank you for the really wonderful gift of free admission. What a wonderful thing to do for the community.

Dan Maloney. Nice to see you, Dan. Thanks a lot. We'll check in with you again.

And we are going to take a short break. We're back in just a moment. Stay with us.

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