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Nancy Grace

Police Attempt to Tie Wealthy Connecticut Man to String of Attacks on Women

Aired November 29, 2005 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, can police tie a wealthy Connecticut man to a string of attacks on women, including now a local high school track star, as well as the murder of two Connecticut prostitutes?
And tonight, new and disturbing details revealed, including a graphic timeline of two murders after 18-year-old David Ludwig gunned down his 14- year-old girlfriend`s mother and father. Now prosecutors want to know, did Ludwig communicate with 14-year-old Kara Borden just before those two murders? Did all those taped messages and cell calls instigate a double homicide?

Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Tonight, a judge orders two Internet companies to hand over all communication between 18-year-old David Ludwig and his 14- year-old girlfriend, Kara Beth Borden. Ludwig charged with the double murders of Kara`s parents.

But first tonight, 49-year-old Connecticut father and husband accused of attempted kidnapping and a teenager track star`s possible kidnap may be linked to multiple sex attacks in the area, as well as the deaths of two Connecticut prostitutes. A father and husband. And now he may be even linked to the `98 disappearance of a University of Albany student.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF NEIL O`LEARY, WATERBURY POLICE DEPARTMENT: Obviously now, we`ve have found that he has a very serious double life. He`s involved in very, very horrific, bizarre crimes. He could very well be some type of serial stalker, serial rapist. We don`t know yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: I want to go straight out to Alan Cohn with WTNH-TV, investigative reporter. This is stunning to me. Connecticut! That`s where all the rich people live! And now you have got this guy, 49 years old. That`s when you think a guy`s going to settle down and quit his criminal activity. Uh-uh! Now this guy is charged with trying to throw a track star, a high school girl, into his van, where, I might add, they found an already prepared slipknot, some rope and other questionable items. Now this guy`s being tied back to a `93 rape, a 2004 attempted rape, a university student`s disappearance, and -- hello! -- two dead prostitutes?. Help me out, Alan Cohn.

ALAN COHN, WTNH: Well, the most interesting part of this is his lawyer in New York says it`s all a big misunderstanding...

GRACE: Oh, I hate when that happens, you know, when you get charged with murders and rapes and it`s all a big misunderstanding.

COHN: Right. But there were actually three eyewitnesses to this, and sources that we have talked to who are close to this investigation says the young woman who was nearly abducted had no idea how close she got to getting in this van, and she put up quite a struggle. Of course, as I said, his lawyer says it`s all a misunderstanding, but police are right now working overtime and creating a timeline. And some sources close to the investigation said they`re going back years and years ago, even before some of the big-name cases that he has first been associated with.

They are investigating and they`re looking at assault of women, and anything of a sexual nature, they are looking at him. And they have his DNA evidence. Not all cases have DNA evidence to compare it to, but they have his, and if they have evidence to test, they will be able to rule him in or rule him out.

GRACE: So, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Let`s go to Jim Kinney, reporter with "The Saratogan." Jim Kinney, he`s right. Alan Cohn said this guy has given DNA evidence. But what about those two dead prostitutes? That was -- I looked them up on line. Hey, Elizabeth (ph), do you have their photos? Could you even get DNA evidence from these two women?

JIM KINNEY, "THE SARATOGAN": That`s the Connecticut case, and I`m a little less familiar with that than I am with what he is accused of doing up in Saratoga Springs.

GRACE: Tell me about that with the track star, and I`ll go back to the two prostitutes.

KINNEY: Well, it`s 5:30 at night, and she is a cross country -- cross country practice is ending. It`s a busy parking lot full of a lot of people because a lot of fall sports are ending. She`s walking through this crowded -- she`s walking by herself through a crowded parking lot. Regan`s alleged to have come from behind, grabbed her around her waist, put one hand over her mouth or face. She starts to bite, kick, scream, fights herself away from this guy.

GRACE: How old is she? How old is she?

KINNEY: She`s 17.

GRACE: Holy moly!

KINNEY: A senior, a very good athlete. And she`s able to get away from this guy. A teacher who`s nearby confronts Regan, according to what police are saying. That buys a little bit of time. That slows him up a little bit. And...

GRACE: Was that one of the coaches from the high school?

KINNEY: Yes. Yes. Well, by this time, her cross country coach is in his car, and then he`s able to follow Regan a few blocks away. And you know, with cell phones and all that sort of stuff, they`re all communicating with police at this time. And the cops catch up with Regan, you know, a few blocks away, on Beacon (ph) Street in Saratoga Springs. They take him into custody without incident.

GRACE: What did they find in his van?

KINNEY: A tarp, we`re hearing from police in Connecticut. They found a rope tied in a slipknot.

GRACE: Yes, you got to have one of those.

KINNEY: They`re -- they found a rake and they found some photographs, some film that had not been developed, rather than photographs. And those are the pictures that get back to the Connecticut stalking case. He had taken pictures -- according to police in Connecticut, he`d taken pictures of women in Connecticut going to parks and walking...

GRACE: Watch out, Jim! Gotcha. Long story short, a very suspicious Walgreen photo clerk went, Why is this guy taking all these pictures of these women walking through parks at cross country jogging track meets? How many photos did this Walgreen clerk cough up? I mean, if it weren`t for her, I bet they wouldn`t have a lot of this evidence.

KINNEY: That`s right. In fact, he took a number of photographs of a number of young women, including the young woman who he is now accused of trying to assault in Waterbury.

GRACE: Wait, wait, wait! Did you say he took photos of her, too?

KINNEY: Yes. Yes, recently, within the past few months.

GRACE: You know what? Let me go back to Alan Cohn. OK, Jim Kinney has explained to me the circumstances surrounding -- I think she was a 17- year-old track star. And thank God the coach was there to apprehend him and chase him and call police. I`m not even going to think about what he was going to do with that slipknot. Right now, take a listen to what police had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any time we have a case like this, where someone is showing a pattern of behavior that Regan has displayed -- certainly, we have now three cases pending here, in Waterbury, the case in Saratoga -- as a matter of practice, we begin to look at any other unsolved cases.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: You know, Alan Cohn, about all the stalking and the photos -- I mean, I was reading articles about it, and it said a suspicious Walgreen photo clerk uncovered all of these photos. I mean, how far back does this go? And who are police trying to link Regan with?

COHN: Well, there are a lot of -- it goes back right now at least 10, 15 years. I talked to one police investigator today who wants to go back even further than that. There was a rape back in 1993. He was not charged with the rape. He is now being charged with kidnapping that person...

GRACE: Wait, wait, wait. Question. Question. Is that because the statute of limitations ran on the rape charge?

COHN: Exactly. But the statute of limitations did not apply to kidnapping, so he is now being charged with that. But there were also several high-profile murders of young women who -- back in the early 1990s and further than that, that investigators are looking at.

One case was in Worcester County, Massachusetts involving Molly Bish. That was in the news a lot over the last few weeks, but the district attorney up there is now saying that they cannot find any connection between Regan and that case. But there are several other cases in Massachusetts and elsewhere that police are now talking about.

Last week, they got together in Springfield, Massachusetts, local and state police from Massachusetts, Connecticut and New York, and the FBI, and they`re now putting together a timeline. They`re trying to figure out where Regan was and when. His former business, the roofing company in Waterbury, has provided all his traveling and business information. The police have conducted search warrants at Regan`s home in Waterbury and also at his parents` home in Waterbury. They have seized the computer and other documents. So they`re meticulously trying to put together a timeline of where he was, when, and if there were any missing women from those general dates and times.

GRACE: Elizabeth, can you put up the picture of Molly Bish? Now, this young girl went missing. So far, all that has been found of her are a stack of bones. He`s been ruled out in the Molly Bish death and disappearance. But just like Alan Cohn is telling us, with WTNH-TV -- Alan, this guy is a traveling salesman, OK?

And if you go on line, as I`ve been doing since I first found out about this guy, John F. Regan -- if you take a look at missing people, missing women, specifically, in and around Waterbury, Alan, there are multiple female prostitutes, many of them similar in their appearance, all of them found in wooded areas either nude or partially nude, having been raped, and all strangled. Now, tell me about these two prostitutes police are trying to link him to.

COHN: Well, this took place in the late 1980s, and these two prostitutes apparently were walkers less than a mile from Regan`s home in Waterbury, and they were found about 10, 15 miles to the north, in Harwington, in a wooded area. Police have not been able to make arrests all these years. The state police are investigating that case, and recently, the police chief in Waterbury asked the state police to look into that case just because of the proximity of the prostitutes to Regan`s home. Now, no links have been made yet, but right now, this is what police -- both local police and state police are looking at.

GRACE: Elizabeth, let`s throw up that statement by Regan`s attorney. Let`s see what he had to say. OK. "Certainly, innocent explanations for some of the evidence (INAUDIBLE) significant problem was running from the parking lot. Our position at this point in time is we have an open mind to what the prosecution has to say. We`ll enter a plea of not guilty."

Now, Lisa Wayne, you`re a veteran defense attorney. This lawyer`s saying his big problem is that he ran from the parking lot. I see the problem more that the 17-year-old track star identifies him as grabbing her around the waist, trying to cover her mouth and force him into her -- into his van.

LISA WAYNE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it sounds like what the attorney`s saying, Nancy, is there`s a reasonable explanation for the contact or that there`s circumstances around it. Frankly, I mean, this might be the case where you shouldn`t say anything until you get all the evidence in the case and you see what`s going to be against this guy. I don`t know.

GRACE: You know what? You`re so wise about that. Back to Alan Cohn. You said that the company has seized a lot of his documents, his company. What was it that he sold?

COHN: He was in the roofing supply business, putting on roofs to both commercial and homes. And he left that position about a year ago, shortly after a fellow employee accused him of assaulting her, actually allegedly taking her over to his father`s house and jumping on her and trying to pin her down. She got away from that, but because of that, police were able at least to make a case and get him to provide a DNA sample. But he left that job about a year ago all around this time.

And now police are trying to figure out what he has been doing since. The police chief in Waterbury says this is just a classic case of a double life because he lives in a beautiful area of Waterbury. It`s one of the...

GRACE: Where`s he getting all his money? Tell me about his family.

COHN: Well, his family is very well-to-do. He has a very high- powered brother who is a big lawyer in Washington. And I understand...

GRACE: I hope he`s got a criminal defense history.

COHN: Well, lawyers run in that family. His sister, I believe, is also an attorney, and his father is a very well-known retired eye doctor. They live in gorgeous homes in Waterbury, so this is a family of means. In fact, he was let out on bond a couple of -- for the assault last year, over $300,000 bond. He was able to make that.

GRACE: You know, that`s amazing to me. That`s amazing to me. He`s let out on $350,000 bond. That means he only had to put up $35,000. And not only that, at the time, we know there`s the `93 rape charge, and then the attempted rape charge, and this guy`s out walking around. And now you`re telling me -- back to you, Jim Kinney -- that he approached this 17- year-old girl in the parking lot while he`s out on bond on an attempted rape?

KINNEY: Yes. It really took the community by a lot of surprise when we found out about that. I believe that Connecticut`s a no -- Connecticut`s one of the states where there`s very few cases where there are no bond. It pretty much has to be a capital case for them to put you away with no bail.

GRACE: Well, maybe the two dead prostitutes might count as dead bodies in this case.

Very quickly, everyone, to tonight`s "Case Alert." Forty-two-year-old Robin Lovitt has been granted a lifetime pass, clemency, today, just a few hours ago by Virginia governor Mark Warner, Lovitt convicted of the `99 murder of Clayton Dicks, stabbing Dicks to death with a pair of scissors while trying to rob him. Lovitt would have been the 1,000th person executed in America since `78, when the Supreme Court reinstated capital punishment.

Also tonight, a Florida courtroom filled with tears during the sentencing phase of Joseph Smith, who assaulted and killed Carlie Brucia, 11 years old, prosecutors asking judge and jury to give Smith the death penalty.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUSAN SCHORPEN, CARLIE BRUCIA`S MOTHER: My daughter`s not breathing, and this sentence is just not going to fulfilled fast enough for me. My daughter`s not breathing, he shouldn`t be breathing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF JAMES BOWEN, SARATOGA COUNTY: They did not find anything during that interview that would indicate suicide or any mental problems. He was placed back into the unit. (INAUDIBLE) released (INAUDIBLE) hospital, he will be reexamined by mental health doctors, and they will determine whether he needs further hospitalization or whether he returns here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. Stunning developments out of Connecticut. Yes, that`s where all the rich white people live. A 49-year- old husband, father of three, now being reportedly linked to the deaths of two prostitutes, the attempted kidnapping of a 17-year-old track star right after track practice at her high school, the death and disappearance of an university student, an attempted rape and a rape.

I want to go straight back to Alan Cohn with WTNH-TV. Tell me about these photos, the drug store clerk. That`s where I always get mine. So I guess all my stalking photos, I`m going to have to start developing myself. What were these photos of? I understand they were just women walking along in the park, along the street?

COHN: Young women, some teenagers, long blond hair. You really got to give credit to that Walgreen`s photo technician who really used their brain to call the police. And you know, in that roll of film was also the woman who he allegedly assaulted in Waterbury, and that`s when police went back...

GRACE: Wait. Which assault? Which assault?

COHN: The...

KINNEY: The...

COHN: The `04 assault that...

GRACE: Of the co-worker?

COHN: Of the co-worker. That`s correct.

GRACE: Oh, you know, I heard you chime in right there, Jim Kinney. The `04, 2004, co-worker -- now, wouldn`t those photos have been taken after the alleged assault?

KINNEY: Yes.

GRACE: Isn`t that a violation of probation?

KINNEY: That`s what they -- well, not probation because...

GRACE: I mean, bail. Bail. Of bail.

KINNEY: ... he hadn`t been convicted of anything.

GRACE: Yes, violation of bail.

KINNEY: He hadn`t been convicted of anything. He was at the -- they were taken in October -- September, October of this year, Nancy. And at the time, he was first charged with that `04 case, an order of protection from abuse was issued by the court in Connecticut, and that`s what he`s accused of violating here with this stalking case.

GRACE: To Brian Reich. He is a detective with the Computer Crimes Unit, Bergen County prosecutor`s office. Brian, what do you find out from computers? And what do you think his company`s computer records are going to show?

BRIAN REICH, DETECTIVE COMPUTER CRIMES UNIT: Well, in this instance, they wanted to get a forensic examination of that computer, Nancy. And the computers that we all use have a wealth of information inside there. You know, these guys sustain on fantasy, and the only thing perfect in their life is fantasy. So he could be acting this out. He could be keeping a diary. He could be keeping photos and all kinds of data about his fantasy and how he wants to go ahead and act it out, and maybe even putting together plans for acting out his fantasy, putting pen to paper so he can review it and look at it and really get gratification from those fantasies.

GRACE: You know, Lauren Howard, with us, psychotherapist, I was going to ask you what it means that he would allegedly attack a girl in a crowded parking lot where there were witnesses, but now I want to ask you about this whole computer thing, keeping all the photos of women that he was allegedly stalking. What is that?

LAUREN HOWARD, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Here`s the thing. We think of people who -- allege serial rapists or serial criminals -- it`s really a compulsive -- I mean, the right way to describe them is compulsive rapists.

GRACE: Don`t tell me he`s just sick.

HOWARD: I`m not saying "just" -- what does that mean, "He`s just sick"? So, oh, then it`s OK? If you`re just sick, it`s OK to rape...

(CROSSTALK)

HOWARD: OK. So what do we mean, "just sick"? Yes, I think...

GRACE: I`m asking you. What is it?

HOWARD: He`s clearly sick. He has a serious compulsion. But...

(CROSSTALK)

HOWARD: ... tried to hang himself. But the reason...

GRACE: Tried. Tried to hang himself.

HOWARD: Thank you very much.

GRACE: (INAUDIBLE) People always think -- .

HOWARD: Exactly right.

GRACE: ... they`re going to commit suicide.

HOWARD: Sure enough.

GRACE: They may kill somebody else.

HOWARD: Sure. Absolutely.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Did you hear how he tried to commit suicide? Ellie, tell her how he tried to commit suicide. Listen to this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, my understanding is that he looped a bed sheet over the bunk bed and crouched down until...

HOWARD: Oh, that`s going to work!

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: he jumped -- he tried to jump off his twin bed...

HOWARD: Good try! Yes, he`s about...

GRACE: ... and hang himself.

HOWARD: ... as good at doing that as he`s been with these other crimes. But Nancy, in answer to your question, why would you track a computer or diaries? Because part of the compulsion is all of this journalizing of it, examining pictures, looking, stalking, the whole thing. It`s all part of the compulsion.

GRACE: Everybody, quick break. We`re all going to be right back. Stunning development out of Connecticut, a 49-year-old father and husband now linked to multiple attacks on women.

To tonight`s "Case Alert." We have new inside information from the Natalee Holloway family. Frustrated with the Aruban authorities` sputtering investigation into her daughter`s disappearance, Beth Twitty taking matters into her own hands, hiring New York lawyer John Kelly (ph) to oversee the investigation and to bring her girl home. Maybe he can help discover what really happened in Aruba.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOUISE BOULANGER, JOHN REGAN`S NEIGHBOR: It`s just unbelievable. It`s heart-breaking. Oh, he was a good neighbor, a good kid, and he -- you know, he was always around, helping his mother and father and taking care of the house when they were away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Jim Moret, I`m puzzled by the Walgreen photo clerk that got all of his -- was developing his film. When did she come forward to police?

JIM MORET, "INSIDE EDITION": She came forward last fall. And you talk about -- this person was well-known not only because of his family being well-known but because of the arrest last year. And according to technician, the technician noticed that all of these pictures appeared to be taken surreptitiously of various women engaged in physical activity. That brought the person forward, brought the photos to police, and then that led to this alleged stalking charge.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SUSAN HENDRICKS, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Hi, everyone. I`m Susan Hendricks with your "Headline Prime Newsbreak."

Police have made two arrests in California after several liquor stores were trashed and one was burned down. The surveillance tapes show a group of African-American men in suits and bow ties sweeping merchandise off the shelves and smashing bottles. The attackers allegedly told the clerk, "Muslims should not sell alcohol." The Nation of Islam denies any involvement in the attacks.

In Virginia, Governor Mark Warner has commuted the death sentence of a convicted killer. In two days, Robin Lovitt would have become the 1,000th prisoner executed in the U.S. since the death penalty was restored in 1976. The milestone execution is now expected in North Carolina Friday.

President Bush got a not-so-warm welcome in Denver today at a fundraising luncheon for Republican Congresswoman Marilyn Musgrave. More than 100 demonstrators gathered to protest his Iraq policies, carrying signs that read, "Occupation Breeds Hate."

And that is the news for now. I`m Susan Hendricks. Back to NANCY GRACE.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s obvious now we`ve found that he has a very serious double life. He`s involved in very, very horrific, bizarre crimes. He could very well be some type of serial stalker, serial rapist. We don`t know yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Incredible, stunning development out of Connecticut tonight. A 49-year-old father of three and husband, now police are trying to link him to the murders of two prostitutes back in the `80s, a missing university student, a `93 rape, a 2004 attempted rape, and an attempted -- there you go, those are the two prostitutes back in the `80s -- and the attempted kidnapping just recently on a 17-year-old high school track star.

Alan Cohn, I asked you earlier, but let me get this straight: How could they possibly link him to the `80 -- the two prostitutes dead back in the `80s?

COHN: Only right now, circumstantially that they allegedly walked the streets less than a mile from his home and then were found in an area which he was, you know, lived and worked his entire life.

It`s important to note right now that investigators don`t know exactly what they`re dealing with here. They haven`t solidly linked him to those murders yet. They have very strong evidence in the New York case and in the Waterbury case, but they don`t know whether his activities were ramping up and he was about to start a murder spree or that he had been doing this for years.

GRACE: Right.

COHN: They simply have not scientifically linked him to any of these cases yet.

GRACE: Pat Brown, criminal profiler, what`s your take on this?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, Nancy, I think one of the biggest problems we see is that there`s too much reactive methodology and not enough proactive methodology.

When you look at a guy like this, he may have been doing this for 20 years. So, if you go back 20 years, and you say a woman is murdered, the police should be going out right away and saying, "We have a serial killer in the community."

If the woman is raped and murdered, it`s a serial killer. If they went out right away, gave out information to the public, and said, "Who do you know?" And then they started a suspect bank on every single crime or said, "Here are all the people we interviewed," and share it with every police department, we could just type it in -- of course, we didn`t have such good computer stuff back then, but now we do -- type in the name, we might have been able to find that this guy was in a lot of places and he might have been interviewed more than once.

But we don`t keep track of things like that. And that`s why we have these guys wandering around.

GRACE: And Pat Brown, everybody, high profile criminal profiler.

To Marc Mukasey, Marc, the fact that this could cross over jurisdictional boundaries makes it even more difficult for law enforcement to coordinate what they`re doing. But I want to ask you, Marc, is this: Do you remember the Green River Killer? A lot of his victims, ranging from age 14 to 15, way up in the `50s. A lot of them were prostitutes.

And -- I hate to say it -- but those cases, those murder cases, were not taken as seriously as if the PTA president was killed. There was a less of a value on their life. What do you think about these two dead prostitutes back in the `80s? Nothing ever happened.

MARC MUKASEY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, my view on this is that there`s a whole lot of rumor, a whole lot of innuendo, a whole lot of speculation here. I`d like to bring three words that I have yet to hear from anybody in the course of this program or this entire case: Presumption of innocence.

GRACE: Let me stop you right there, Marc Mukasey. The presumption of innocence, isn`t that in a court of law?

MUKASEY: That, of course...

GRACE: Yes, no?

MUKASEY: Absolutely, yes.

GRACE: OK. Are you sitting in a court of law or are you sitting in a TV studio?

MUKASEY: I`m sitting in a country where Oliver Wendell Holmes, when he was chief justice...

GRACE: Oh, good god in heaven.

MUKASEY: ... of the Supreme Court, said that cases are not decided on general propositions, Nancy. Cases are decided...

GRACE: How about DNA? Would that help?

MUKASEY: Cases are decided on concrete facts. Cases are decided...

GRACE: How about DNA, Marc?

MUKASEY: ... on evidence, not rumor, not speculation, not innuendo.

GRACE: OK. Once again, take three: How about DNA? Would Oliver Wendell Holmes approve of a case built on DNA?

MUKASEY: This DNA evidence, as I understand it, Nancy, is over 10 years old. Now, the `93 case...

GRACE: Marc, have you tried a murder case including DNA?

MUKASEY: I absolutely have.

GRACE: And have you ever known a scientist to tell you that a carefully collected and maintained DNA sample can somehow change over time, because it`s 10 years old? Do you think the DNA changes?

MUKASEY: Nancy, there are many criminal defense lawyers out there...

GRACE: So I take it the answer is "no"?

MUKASEY: ... that rely on the DNA when it exculpates their client. When it inculpates their client, all of a sudden there are attacks on testing, methodology, lab cleanliness, procedure, the age of the specimen.

There`s a lot of DNA evidence that`s very helpful in court, clearly. There`s a lot that`s faulty, as well.

GRACE: OK, beautiful job. I didn`t know you were a ballroom dancer, because you danced right out of that one.

Brian Reich, a detective with the prosecutor`s office, Bergen County, DNA doesn`t change over time. You can get DNA from a mummy if you can extract it and it will still be reliable.

REICH: Absolutely. You know, especially in today`s day and age, with the science that we have, the DNA is going to be consistent evidence. And I think it`s an absurd argument to say that the DNA evidence is 10 years old so, therefore, we`re going to have a presumption of innocence.

And, certainly, to prosecute this guy and arrest him, we don`t need proof beyond a reasonable doubt. We need probable cause. And certainly, in the case that he`s been prosecuted for now, they have more than enough probable cause.

This guy is a classic example of what profilers would call an organized offender. He plans his attacks. He stalks his victims like prey. He takes photos of them so he can live out his fantasy, because fantasy in his mind is perfect. And fantasy can only sustain him so long, so then has to go out and act out. And this guy`s a dangerous, dangerous guy that needs to be put away.

GRACE: You know, what`s even scarier to me, Detective, about the mementos, the photos, things that people keep, you know -- and, of course, this guy has not been convicted, as our lawyer Marc Mukasey has accurately pointed out. It must be proved beyond a reasonable doubt. He does have the presumption of innocence.

But in every mass killing, serial killing I have ever looked at, there are always mementos, photos, driver`s license, a piece of clothing, something to remind the perp of the dead victim.

I`ve got to switch gears, got to switch gears. I`ve got to bring you the latest developments in a case that disturbed many of us. An 18-year- old male in custody for gunning down his 14-year-old girlfriend`s parents. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MERRILL SPAHN, LUDWIG`S ATTORNEY: Prior to four days ago, Mr. Ludwig was a 18-year-old man not unlike others, unknown. Over the last four days, he has been a subject of a nationwide manhunt. He has been the subject of various media scrutiny. At this point, with respect to his condition, he is physically sound. He is understandably scared, anxious and concerned.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: I want to go straight out to Brett Lovelace, reporter with the "Lancaster Intelligencer-Journal." Disturbing new details in the case of David Ludwig and his 14-year-old girlfriend, Kara Borden. I`ve still got to find out: Is this girl an accomplice or a victim?

Bret, bring me up to date.

BRETT LOVELACE, REPORTER, "LANCASTER INTELLIGENCER-JOURNAL": Nancy, she`s an accomplice, in the sense that she went willing with her boyfriend, David, on this trek from Pennsylvania to Indiana. But she didn`t pull the trigger, so it`s going to be a challenge now to see if they`re going to charge her with anything. Bets here are that she won`t be charged.

GRACE: And, Jim Moret, chief correspondent with "Inside Edition," you`ve been tracking this case very carefully. Isn`t it true that the kidnapping charges with her as the kidnap victim have been dropped? She actually chased after this guy`s car, after she knew he shot her mother and father, and begged to get in the car with him?

MORET: Well, originally, it was believed that she was a kidnap victim, and we`re now being led to believe that she is not, that indeed she went willingly. But, according to David Ludwig, Kara did not ask him to kill her parents. And according to her attorney, she had nothing to do with the slaying.

GRACE: I want to go back to Brett Lovelace with the "Lancaster Intelligencer-Journal." Just before he came back -- you know, first of all, lay out the timeline for me. That has just been revealed over the weekend, the timeline leading up to this double homicide, Brett.

LOVELACE: Well, the night before the homicide, she had spent the night at his house. He brings her back home at about 5:30 a.m., drops her off. Parents are waiting up for her. They uncover that she had been out with him all night.

Then there was a flurry of text messages, and phone calls, and e-mails back and forth between the two. They couldn`t connect. Finally, they get on the phone. She says, "David, I`ve been calling. You need to come over here. My parents are furious. They want to talk to you about this."

When he goes over, he takes three guns, wraps them up in a blanket, puts one of the pistols in his waistband concealed under his jacket, goes into the house. There`s a 45-minute conversation with him and her father. The father says, "David, this relationship`s over. I`m not going to tolerate it. She`s 14. You`re 18. I`m not going to have it."

At that point, he pulls out the gun, shoots Mr. Borden in the back of the head, and then turns and shoots Mrs. Borden. She`s sitting in the chair.

GRACE: Now, where was Kara Beth Borden all this time?

LOVELACE: Kara witnessed it, according to her statements to the police. She witnessed both the shootings, then she fled out of the house. There was a little bit of chaos, that her two siblings had also fled out to call 911.

GRACE: Not her, though. She didn`t call 911.

LOVELACE: She did not; she ran out of the house looking for David, and then sees him in her car...

GRACE: You know what`s interesting, Brett? I`ve got with me the motion for production inspection of evidence and preservation of evidence. And in this, I can call through. It`s very long document, but I picked out things that Ludwig said to police. He was right behind the father going down the steps, right behind him, shot him in the head.

Now, this is Trial 101. Long story short, with premeditation, it can be formed in an instant. The time it takes for him to raise the gun and pull the trigger, the dad is right there, right in front of him. That`s premeditation, Brett, according to prosecutors.

LOVELACE: It definitely is premeditation. And our district attorney has alluded to that in the statement of this point. This is a capital murder case. There`s no doubt about it.

Whether he pleads the first-degree with life in prison or takes it to trial and gambles with a jury on a death penalty, he`s an 18-year-old, is still up in the air. We won`t know that for about a year.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM BURKHOLDER, NEIGHBOR: The neighbor across the street, directly across the street, said, you know, that she understands one of the Borden children ran over to their house and said, "Mom and Dad were shot."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are talking about the murders of a mother and father of a 14-year-old girl. The boyfriend, the 18-year-old boyfriend, David Ludwig, now being held in those murders.

I want to go back to Brett Lovelace. What was on all those text messages and cell calls between Kara Beth Borden and Ludwig, just before he gunned down her parents? She`s right there at his elbow. Why is she not charged with murder?

LOVELACE: Well, Nancy, there`s been a lot of focus and analysis on those text messages, on the e-mail exchanges and, also, on their blogs and Web sites and instant messages. And there`s a really interesting dialogue between Kara and a 17-year-old friend of hers, a female friend, who has since been cooperating with the police and providing them with a lot of information, such as her cell phone and also her Internet passwords.

But, if you look closely at that dialogue, there`s speculation that they could be discussing Kara`s possible pregnancy and how they`re going to conceal this from Kara`s parents.

GRACE: Now, that`s a bombshell.

To Brian Reich, detective with the Computer Crimes Unit, Brian, how do you -- I know that, if you`ve got saved e-mail, that you can pull that out, print it off, and show it to a jury. But what about text messages? If those are deleted, are they just lost forever in cyber space? Is there a way to recover those?

REICH: Well, it depends upon what forum they were having the text messages. A lot of times instant messages -- if you`re talking about instant messages, they are difficult to recover, because they`re saved in a part of the memory in the computer that a lot of times is lost once the computer is powered down. That`s called RAM memory. And that`s kind of temporary.

But, from what I understand, they were using MySpace. And MySpace is kind of like your private web site. And within MySpace, you can actually have private communications with another MySpace user.

So I think one of the best things that the investigators did was they sent a preservation letter to preserve those web sites, and they should be able to get those private communications from MySpace so they can see what private dialogue was going on between the girl and the suspect. And that`s going to be a wealth of information to get inside their heads to see what was going on.

GRACE: And to Jim Moret with "Inside Edition," chief correspondent, Jim, wasn`t there a homemade video he had online where he`s planning -- that he had made -- I don`t know if it was online or not -- where he was planning to home invade Kara`s home, and have sex with Kara and her sister? I know their family he talked about as another possible target.

MORET: Well, he had a web log. And there was a video of him and another individual making a forced entry into an unidentified home, but there were also photos of Kara in various stages of undress.

And you talk about MySpace. Remember back a few weeks...

GRACE: What do you mean, "various stages of undress"?

MORET: She had less and less and less clothing. I mean, I don`t know how to say it in a nice way.

GRACE: Was she ever totally naked, unclothed?

MORET: I don`t believe she was totally unclothed.

But, Nancy, there`s a point to make, and that`s this MySpace. Think back a few weeks. We were talking about Taylor Behl, and she was just in college for a week before she was killed. And she used to post on this same web site, MySpace.

A number of kids do this. And there`s a great deal of information, not only that police can get from these two, but that is available to so many people who want to target these kids. And that`s what`s so frightening about it.

GRACE: Lisa Wayne, defense attorney, don`t you just hate it when your client has a web log?

WAYNE: Well, you know, Nancy, it may be very helpful, because, you know, if you take together his rantings on the web log, some of these text messages, this home video that was supposedly made, there`s a lot of stuff that indicates that this is a very unstable kid that ultimately may lead to a defense in this case of some kind of impaired mental condition. So it may be very helpful to him in the long run and very helpful to his lawyer.

GRACE: To Tina Shyver Plank, she`s a friend and colleague of Mike Borden. This is Kara Beth Borden`s father. Ms. Plank, thank you for being with us.

TINA SHYVER PLAN, FRIEND AND COLLEAGUE OF MIKE BORDEN: Thank you.

GRACE: Could you tell me about the victims in this case? We`ve heard so much about the 18-year-old and the 14-year-old. What about the victims?

PLANK: Well, I knew Mike Borden. He was one of my bosses up the line. He was vice president and general manager of the Science Press Division of Cadmus Professional Communications in Ephrata, Pennsylvania.

And Mike`s presence affected us at Cadmus in a myriad of ways. He integrated his faith, philosophy, and core values into his actions at work. He was genuine, kind, intelligent, compassionate and professional. He ran the company successfully. He treated other people as he wished to be treated.

GRACE: Hmm.

You know, it`s amazing to me, Lauren Howard, very quickly, these two seem to be so involved in their church and home-schooling. The whole time, they had a double life.

HOWARD: Well, that`s not unusual. Children do -- kids have secrets, because it`s not safe to reveal what`s going on in their inner worlds. And they`re trying to individuate and develop their own -- you know, separate from their parents.

So that`s not so unusual. What`s unusual is this arsenal of guns that were in the home of this young man. That`s not for hunting, I`m sorry.

GRACE: Very quickly, everyone, to tonight`s "All-Points Bulletin." FBI, law enforcement across the country, on the lookout for Antonio Perez, wanted in connection with the `93 murder of 32-year-old Hector Mharle.

Perez, 39, 5`7", 160 pounds, black hair, brown eyes. If you have information, please call the Lynn Police Department, 781-595-2000.

Local news next for some of you. But we`ll all be right back. And remember, live coverage of the Carlie Brucia case, tomorrow 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern Court TV.

Please stay with us as we remember Private First Class John W. Dearing, just 21, an American hero.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We at NANCY GRACE want very much to help solve unsolved homicides, find missing people. Take a look at 2-year-old Nathan Shugarman. Authorities suspect Nathan`s non-custodial mother kidnapped him from Vegas and took him to Korea. He has not been seen since May 2004. Can you imagine?

If you have info on Nathan Shugarman, call the FBI, 202-324-3000, or go online to beyondmissing.com. Please help us.

I want to go straight back to Brian Reich, detective of computer crimes. What about phone messaging? Can that be retrieved, phone messages?

REICH: Well, (INAUDIBLE) a computer forensic examiner can probably get a little more into detail. But it depends upon the phone. It depends upon the technology that`s being used. Different cell phone companies use different technologies.

But there is a lot of software out there, forensic software, that forensic investigators that just sit in the lab and do forensics on phones, can retrieve a tremendous amount of information.

GRACE: Wow, wow.

REICH: So there`s a lot of information that can be received -- be gotten and received now with forensics. And there`s a tremendous amount of stuff they can do.

GRACE: And to Pat Brown, this girl, the 14-year-old, was right there at the time of both the shootings. She witnessed both the shootings. Tonight, she`s not determined as a suspect. She chased the car down to leave with him. Profile?

BROWN: Well, it`s really hard to tell exactly what was going on in Kara`s mind. And that`s why we`re going to have to look back at her behaviors before.

What is the context of all of this? Was she just terribly upset and she really was unaware of what went on, and freaked out, and then ran, and went to the only person she knew to go to, which was David Ludwig? And we also can`t believe David Ludwig, because anything he says about Kara may simply be a lie that he`s using to support himself. On the other hand...

GRACE: Or to protect each other.

BROWN: Or to protect each other. And on the other hand, we may find well in the future that Kara may have said, "Come over here. My parents are driving me crazy. I want them out of my life. Take care of them."

And if they had a plan that involved actual murder prior to this, then, of course, then she is, indeed, an accomplice. And that`s what we`re going to find out as time goes on and we get more information.

GRACE: Pat Brown, criminal profiler.

I want to thank all of my guests tonight, including the ghost of Oliver Wendell Holmes, summoned up by defense attorney Marc Mukasey.

But our biggest thank you is to you for being with all of us, inviting us and our legal stories into your home. Coming up, headlines from all around the world. I`m Nancy Grace signing off for tonight. Hope to see you right here tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.

END