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Interview With Ramsey Clark; 9/11 Report Card; Condoleezza Rice Visits Europe

Aired December 05, 2005 - 14:01   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: We're at the top of the hour now. We're talking about a tornado warning. Chad Myers working this for us right now.
Chad, what do we know?

CHAD MYERS, CNN SEVERE WEATHER EXPERT: Actually had one on the ground while the president was speaking three miles north of Crawfordville and two miles southeast of Woodville. Now, that's not all that far from Tallahassee. Probably less than 15 miles.

Here's a strong line of storms. And the ones that are out ahead of the storm, along -- ahead of that line, that's the one that actually made the tornado. This one right here kind of crossed across into Lee, and then eventually possibly even to the northeast, although it's lost a lot of its spin.

There's another one here to the southwest of Valdosta that may produce something later on, especially even hail, if nothing else. This storm is very large. It's part of the tail of the cold air mass that's actually making the potential for all of this snow, really the teeth of the snow through D.C., just south of Philadelphia, north of Richmond, Virginia, and, of course, right through Sky Line Drive.

More on that, though, later on in the show -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. Chad Myers, thank you so much.

MYERS: You're welcome.

PHILLIPS: We'll continue to follow up with you, of course.

Meanwhile, of his many attorneys, advisers, and advocates, Saddam Hussein has only one who also happens to be for two years back in the '60s attorney general of the United States. Ramsey Clark now joining me live from Baghdad.

Mr. Clark, we appreciate your time.

RAMSEY CLARK, FMR. U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, nice to talk to you.

PHILLIPS: Well, as you can imagine, we've been following everything that you've had to say in that courtroom in Baghdad. We've also been talking to a number of your former colleagues about your participation in the Saddam Hussein trail. I guess, first of all, I want to ask you, why are you doing this?

CLARK: Well, I think the trial is of historic importance, and a fair trial is absolutely essential to truth and historic truth because we're talking about history. It's public justice. We're talking about a former head of government. And to me, most important of all, peace.

The desperate need in Iraq is reconciliation. And if this trial isn't seen as fair, it isn't fair, in fact, it will irreconcilably divide the country. It's bad enough now. But if it's unfair, it is going to create greater anger and greater violence. And the Iraqis have had too much of that.

PHILLIPS: Well, sir, as you can imagine, there are a number of people coming forward saying, look, this is typical Ramsey Clark. If you look at his causes, his clients, his allies, they've included people like Moammar Gadhafi, Slobodan Milosevic, David Koresh, people that Americans sit back and think, wow, why would you ever want to support an individual like that? And now they see you, an American, a former leader in this country, supporting Saddam Hussein and thinking that you're very unpatriotic.

Do you -- what do you say to your critics?

CLARK: Well, I haven't heard directly from them, but I would say that you do in life what you believe is right. And I think that if you're going to have equal justice under law, it's the cases where people have been demonized, where they're hated and despised, that are most important, because that's what really testing your system's ability to provide a fair trial.

But in a case like this, involving Iraq, where I've spent a lot of my life over the last 10 or 15 years, it means peace itself. It means historic truth. And you can see how very difficult it is to hope for a fair trial.

I mean, just look at the passions in the country. Watch CNN any night and watch all the shooting and explosions and killing that's going on. And you put into that, if it's possible, an unfair trial, if you can complete it, if you can keep your defense lawyers alive.

One of my first goals is to try to get some protection for the defense lawyers. Two have been summarily executed. And you can't have a trial where that's the condition.

The court has protection. The prosecution has protection. The defense does not have protection, and they've got families here and they need protection. It really shouldn't go forward until you have protection.

But anyway, a fair trial is essential to everything I believe in.

PHILLIPS: And sir, you mentioned just a moment ago that you have told me you have not heard from your critics. Just within the last half-hour, I had a chance to talk with former secretary of defense Frank Gaffney, also Jack Valenti, who you know well, who work would Lyndon Johnson, as did you. And I asked them both about what you are doing.

This is what Jack Valenti had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACK VALENTI, FMR. LBJ AIDE: I don't think anybody takes Ramsey seriously in this country, because you know whatever is the policy of any government, Democrat or Republican, Ramsey is going to be opposed to it. And after a while he debases the coin of credibility. He becomes more amusing than he is credible and a threat to anybody.

FRANK GAFFNEY, FMR. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I agree with that, Jack. But I would say...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: What do you think about that, sir, with regard to former colleagues of yours saying that you don't have any credibility?

CLARK: I didn't recognize the voice, so I'm spared perhaps someone unpleasant feelings about...

PHILLIPS: It's Jack Valenti, sir. It was Jack Valenti.

CLARK: But at least -- oh, Jack Valenti.

PHILLIPS: Yes, sir.

CLARK: All right. He was not in the Department of Defense. I thought you said Department of Defense.

PHILLIPS: He was side by side with Frank Gaffney.

CLARK: Well, at last he can't accuse me of being partisan if he says whether it's a Democratic or Republican administration.

I believe if you really love your country, you can't stand to see it doing something wrong. And you have every moral obligation to say so and to try to make it do right.

And I think our attack on Iraq was a war of aggression. It's a violation of the U.N. charter, and it's a supreme international crime, according to the Nuremberg Judgment. And those things matter to me.

PHILLIPS: Well, sir, let me ask you...

CLARK: It has caused enormous -- enormous suffering here and death.

PHILLIPS: Well, let me ask you, do you think Saddam Hussein should still be running that country? Should he still be in charge of Iraq?

CLARK: Well, I say this, I don't think George Bush has the right to decide that issue. You'll remember with Aristide in Haiti this last -- this last year, he said Aristide has to go. And look what's happened to Haiti. Just blood in the streets, 8,000 U.N. forces there trying to maintain the peace because George Bush said Aristide's got to go.

Well, we ought to take care of our own problems. We shouldn't try to change regimes as they like to do. How many are they trying -- are they threatening now with regime change?

The United States can be a positive force on earth, but it's militarism is going to destroy the spirit of America. We spend more on the military than the rest of the world combined. And that's a terrible tragedy for us and everybody else.

PHILLIPS: Sir, when is the last time you had the opportunity to speak to Saddam Hussein?

CLARK: Well, I was in court with him all day. And...

PHILLIPS: Did you talk with him?

CLARK: ... we spoke briefly. Yes, briefly. We didn't have a lot of time.

We had some time this morning before the court started -- started. The court started late.

Then yesterday I flew in. Yesterday was Sunday, and I flew in, and we spent about four hours out at his cell out near the airport.

PHILLIPS: What did you say to him?

CLARK: If you're going to represent someone...

PHILLIPS: What did you say to him, Mr. Clark?

CLARK: ... you need to talk to him.

PHILLIPS: Sure, absolutely. What did you say to him? And what did he say to you?

CLARK: Well, four and a half hours, you got time for that?

PHILLIPS: I wish we did, because I'd sure love to know what took place in that conversation. Can you give me highlights?

CLARK: What a lawyer and clients talk about. I tried it tell him what I saw the important issues and strategies for the case.

First, we got to get protection for defense counselors or there's not going to be a defense. They all will get killed.

You already had two out of -- there were nine at the table today left, Iraqi defense lawyers, and another one wounded, and no protection. It's pretty dangerous. A lot of people don't like what they're doing. So, you've got to get that protection.

Then you've got to show whether this court is legal or not. The court was created by the United States. It was created under the Bremer administration here.

The United States doesn't have the power, the right to go to a foreign country and overthrow it and set up a court. War, by other means, to get its own enemies. Then you've got to determine whether it's possible for that court to be independent.

Who's paying for it, you know? How did it get there? Who chose it? How does it happen that the first investigative judge, chief investigative judge, is a nephew of Ahmed Chalabi, who was a CIA asset for years, if not now, and who's a vowed enemy of the Saddam Hussein regime?

What kind of fairness is that? What's the image of that? The United States was a part of that.

So those are the things that have to be talked about and looked into.

Thank you very much.

PHILLIPS: I appreciate your time.

Ramsey Clark, former attorney general here in the United States, now an adviser to Saddam Hussein.

Sir, we will stay in touch. We thank you for your time.

CLARK: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Well, there's a lot of outrage today from the former members of the 9/11 Commission. Though the group is no longer operating under a federal mandate, they're still holding the government's feet to the fire when it comes to make the U.S. safer from terrorist attacks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM KEAN, FMR. 9/11 COMMISSION CHAIRMAN: Four years after 9/11, it is a scandal that police and firefighters in large cities still can't talk to each other reliably when they are hit with a major crisis. It's scandalous that airline passengers are still not screened against all names on a terrorist watch list. It is scandalous that we still allocate scarce homeland security dollars on the basis of pork barrel spending and not on risk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: CNN's Kimberly Osias joins me now with more from Washington.

Kimberly, it's been almost a year and half since this panel issued its formal recommendations. What do the former members think needs to be done to get more action?

KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, I'll tell you, the list is a long one, a whole slew of recommendations in July of 2004, most of which still have not been implemented. Despite the fact that these panel members believe an attack will happen, the question just is when.

The chairman of the commission, former New Jersey governor Tom Kean, was critical of the Bush administration, saying strengthening national security has been given short shrift in light of the war. Big-picture recommendations here include dolling out homeland security dollars based on actual risk, not on geography or population.

One of the panel members citing various abuses of federal funds, saying one city, get this, used its money to buy air-condition garbage trucks. And another, Kevlar vests for dogs.

One panel member, former congressman Tim Roemer, speaking of the grades, 12 Ds and five Fs, said his son will have to repeat the grade if he got those marks. Clearly a report card no child would want to take home -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: So what's the panel's biggest concern, Kimberly?

OSIAS: Well, there are two big concerns here, Kyra, the lack of central communication for first responders. Currently, Congress is considering a bill to establish a common radio frequency.

But as commission chairman Thomas Kean pointed out, even if the bill passes, the hope for implementation isn't until 2009. Too long to wait, he says.

Look at the example of the 9/11 attacks. Police and fire weren't speaking to one another, not knowing who was in charge.

Then with Katrina, another scene of disaster, still no central communication there or command center.

The other huge concern, the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction around the world -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: 9/11 families, they were present today, yes? And did you get a chance to hear what they had to say?

OSIAS: Oh, very much so, Kyra. I mean, there were family members that were there. One woman tearfully acknowledging the work of the bipartisan panel.

Of course these folks have been together for years. And she said she appreciated their passion and their concern even above and beyond the official job. She also emphatically said she didn't want another family to suffer a tragic loss after an attack.

Tom Kean acknowledged that it was the last time publicly that the group would be together, and essentially passing a figurative baton, if you will, saying the families and the American public need to continue to shed light and be a watchdog group of sorts on the administration to get these reforms completed and in place -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Kimberly Osias. Thanks so much. Stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

When we come back, damage control. Condoleezza Rice jets off to Europe to try to convince the allies that the U.S. government isn't about torture. We'll tell you what she had to say.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is due to land shortly in Berlin on a two-pronged mission in the war on terror. Rice is expected to reassure European allies that the U.S. government is not using torture to extract information from terror suspects. But she's also expected to pressure the Europeans to temper their public carping at Washington and get with the program of fighting terrorism.

CNN European Political Editor Robin Oakley sets the scene now from London.

And how did this come about? Has this created so much talk, Robin, about the CIA and this torture issue that Condoleezza Rice had to respond and had to go to Europe?

ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN EUROPEAN POLITICAL EDITOR: Absolutely, Kyra. She had to respond because the European capital she's coming to are abuzz with allegations about the CIA using so-called ghost flights operating on European air bases to whisk terrorist suspects around the world, that it's had so-called secret prisons on black sites in Eastern Europe.

But in her remarks at Andrews Air Force Base, before she set off, she addressed the key issue, as far as the Europeans were concerned, by saying the U.S. does not make use of torture.

PHILLIPS: Robin, we're having some -- some issue, obviously -- yes, we're having some problems with the tape there. But Condoleezza Rice did stress the "respect for countries' sovereignty." Why don't we talk about what was behind that statement.

OAKLEY: Well, indeed. That was a very interesting part of her remarks, because diplomats have taken that to be a sign that when she talked about respecting countries' sovereignty, that meant that the countries had been informed what the CIA was doing. And the implication of that for the people she's going to be talking to in Europe is, don't press me too far because in that case any revelations I make might be just as embarrassing to European governments as they will be to the United States government.

And we've had here in Britain 200 CIA flights alleged by the people who log these kind of things. In Germany, 400 flights; Spain investigating and promising to monitor CIA operations more tightly; Italy talking about extraditing 21 CIA operatives after the abduction of a terrorist from the streets.

Did all those governments really know absolutely nothing about what was going on? That doesn't seem very likely -- Kyra. PHILLIPS: Live from London, our Robin Oakley.

Thanks so much, Robin.

We're talking Iraq now and standards. It's been a relatively quiet day, but, then again, it is Iraq, where the insurgency is a deadly part of the daily fabric.

Gunmen kidnapped a French engineer from outside his home in Baghdad. Neighbors report that he screamed as the kidnappers beat him before shoving him into a getaway car. He's the sixth foreigner that's been kidnapped in Iraq in a little over a week.

Now, north of Baghdad, police report gunmen killed a local electrician official in the town of Baquba. Officials there repeatedly warned that the recent surge in insurgent attacks is aimed at disrupting next week's parliamentary elections.

And the U.S. military is reporting the death of another American soldier. He was killed by a roadside bomb in Baghdad yesterday. His death raises the number of American troops killed in Iraq to 2,130.

Now the debate over U.S. troops in Iraq. A former U.S. intelligence official says, far from helping to stabilize Iraq, the U.S. troop presence is only making things worse. Lieutenant General William Odom, U.S. Army, retired, is a former director of the National Security Agency. He also has served as the Army's chief intelligence officer.

He joins us live from Washington.

General, it's a pleasure to have you.

LT. GEN. WILLIAM ODOM, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Thank you.

PHILLIPS: You say pull out now. Why?

ODOM: Because it has never been in our interest to invade Iraq in the first place. And while people don't like to go back and review that, I think it's essential for us to understand why getting out in fairly short order makes sense.

It was very much in al Qaeda's interest for us to invade because we opened the country up to al Qaeda, where it was not at all welcome before. It was also in Iran's interest because Saddam had invaded Iran and fought the Iranians for eight years. Therefore, both parties were very pleased to have us go in.

Furthermore, the country is, as we've learned, fragmented between Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds. The idea that we can put that set of sectarian groups together into a constitutional system boggles the mind. We just never have done this before any place else in the world. Therefore, the prospects for success were poor, and it wasn't our interest to do it in the first place.

PHILLIPS: So, General, if this wasn't in our interest to do this in the first place, let's talk about what the interest was. And I haven't had a chance to ask a military general, someone like yourself and with your background this question in a really long time. Why did the U.S. go to war?

Was it about terrorism? Was it about weapons of mass destruction? Was it about Saddam Hussein killing innocent people? Was it about oil?

ODOM: I think it's been very difficult for anybody to understand precisely what we went to war for. The things that the president asserted again and again at the top of the list was weapons of mass destruction, which turned out not to have existed.

Overthrowing Saddam was something that was thrown in. Making it a liberal, democratic state was another goal, which we assume would happen without much U.S. effort.

There were, obviously, assertions, particularly from the vice president that there was a strong al Qaeda connection. As we know, there was not. And the intelligence community never validated any evidence to that effect. And the al Qaeda was absolutely pleased that we opened it up for them.

So it's very puzzling to me. And I think it will take historians to unravel why we actually got into this mess.

PHILLIPS: Do you have your hunch?

ODOM: No, I really don't. The more I learn about it, the more puzzled I am that such clever and intelligent people as a secretary of defense, secretary of state, and a vice president could be enthusiastic about this.

PHILLIPS: Sir, you say that staying there only trains the terrorists. What do you mean by that?

ODOM: The number of young volunteers for al Qaeda and associated terrorist groups has, according to CIA reports to the Congress, increased. They go there, learn the trade in an actual operation where they can engage in terrorist acts, then they return home and they can be dispatched to other parts of the world where their leaders want to carry out similar kinds of operations. So it's proved to be quite a training ground for al Qaeda to build its ranks with veterans who know really how to do these things more efficiently than the untrained.

PHILLIPS: When you've been asked about, so, how do you eventually get stability in Iraq, you have actually said, re-install Saddam Hussein.

ODOM: I said that as a bit of a throwaway. But it's an instructive remark, because it takes a dictatorship like Saddam, given the political cultures of that region to hold that country together, or at least it has until now. By removing him, we allow these fissures to break out into the open. Now, certainly Saddam made them bad, made them worse, created conditions where, if you took him out, you would have consequences that was almost no way to avoid. And we're living with those consequences.

I don't see how we can expect to have any significantly successful outcome here. The issue now is minimizing damage, not achieving some kind of success.

PHILLIPS: Well, whether it's Congressman Murtha, or talking to you, it's always interesting to get different angles to this war, of course, as it continues.

Lieutenant General William Odom, U.S. Army, retired.

Sir, thank you so much for your time.

ODOM: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Straight ahead, a major hotel chain goes smoke free. We're going to have details on that when we check the markets.

Also, LIVE FROM has all the news you want this afternoon. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MYERS: Hey. Good afternoon, everyone.

I want to take you to Valdosta, Georgia, now. Tornado warning for Valdosta, Georgia. We had a tornado warning on a storm that moved just to the south of Tallahassee, but now you may notice here that big red box over Valdosta, Georgia.

Significant rotation in this storm. And the tornado warning does exist until 2:45.

So, Valdosta, Georgia, you should be hearing the tornado sirens now. If you're not, anywhere here, rummaging all the way up toward Moody Air Force Base, you need to be taking cover in a basement or the lowest level in your house.

Tornado warning with a Doppler-indicated tornado. We'll have to see. We already had one on the ground southwest of there -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Chad. Thanks so much. We'll continue to follow up with you then as we get those tornado warnings throughout the day.

Meanwhile, Betty Nguyen with more on that rescue at Andrews Air Force Base. She's working that story in the newsroom -- Betty.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we've been following this all morning long, and into the afternoon, obviously.

I want you to take a look at these dramatic pictures of this rescue. A man was working on a water tower at the Andrews Air Force Base. It's a 200-foot water tower. We're going to try to get those pictures up for you.

There it is. And he started going in and out of consciousness, feeling kind of faint. He wasn't able to make his way down. So rescue crews came up and got him.

What you're looking at right now is a pulley and rope system. They put him in a basket, as you can see right here, tied some rope around him, and they're lowering him down to the ground. We don't know exactly what sparked this medical condition that he had, but obviously he wasn't able to make it down by his own power. Though a family friend does tell the Associated Press that this man, Mr. Joshua Denson (ph), who is 23 years old, does suffer from low blood sugar.

The good news is they were able to bring him down and, obviously he's doing -- as of now we don't know the condition. He does suffer from low blood sugar, according to a friend. But as it appears he is down safe and sound on the ground, which is very good news after he was going in and out of consciousness on a 200-foot water tower.

PHILLIPS: Thank you so much.

More bad news for smokers. A big hotel chain is about to become smoke free now. Susan Lisovicz has that story from the New York Stock Exchange. Hi, Susan.

SUSAN LISCOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The name of the hotel chain is Westin Hotels and Resorts. It has a new year's resolution. Starting next month the chain is giving up smoking at more than 70 hotels in the U.S., Canada and the Caribbean. As part of the change, the company will deep clean 2400 rooms that were formerly designated for smokers.

Westin says that 92 percent of its guests request a non-smoking room when traveling and do not smoke in the hotel. The company will still permit smoking in designated outdoor areas on its properties like balconies, but, clearly, the space for smokers is shrinking. Kyra?

PHILLIPS: OK. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but I guess we're not able to show our opinion, it's OK, we can say it.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

That's the latest from Wall Street. LIVE FROM continues right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: How to end the Iraq war. Immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops, gradual pullout, set a timetable, all are part of the heated debate being played out on Capitol Hill, across the U.S. and around the world.

A bipartisan group of American lawmakers traveled to Iraq seeking some answers. They also made stops at countries directly affected by the Iraq war. Israel, Jordan and Saudi Arabia.

They just returned home and one of them joins us now. Democratic Senator Tom Carper of Delaware is a member of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, as well. Senator, good it see you.

SEN. TOM CARPER, (D) DELAWARE: Kyra, it's great to be here, thank you.

PHILLIPS: Tell me about your experience. Did you pretty much have your mind set on what should happen in Iraq with regard to troops pulling out or not, and then when you got there was it only confirmed or was your mind changed?

CARPER: In the days before I left, Kyra, I said to a number of people that one of my objectives in going was to be a sponge and ask a lot of questions and to listen what was on the mind of people, not just our troops and not just the Iraqis, but our military leaders and diplomatic leaders.

We were in and out of a fairly short period of time, although we visited a number of other countries en route to Iraq and had a chance to meet with the leaders of Israel and Jordan and Saudi Arabia, too.

For me, one of the pleasant surprises was to find that there was an emerging consensus within Iraq itself from Iraqi military leaders, political leaders, from American military leaders and diplomatic leaders. The message that I took back with me is that there is a good compromise somewhere between get out in six months and between staying there as long as it takes.

There is a good common sense compromise that will allow us to begin drawing down early next year our troops, over the next couple years give the Iraqis a chance not to stand up their military, army and police, but also give them a chance to stand up to their government following the elections in just about 10 days.

PHILLIPS: So, you're saying within a couple of years troops could start coming home?

CARPER: I'm saying early next year troops could start coming home.

PHILLIPS: Early next year?

CARPER: Early next year. It's not the kind of thing -- no one is saying we ought to pull out 100,000 troops next year, but what I'm hearing is that the time has come. The Iraqis can begin to do more on their own, they're already starting to.

I think one of the thing that sort of surprised me was that I became convinced that our presence here -- a lot of people in Iraq think that we're there maybe for good. That we came there for the oil, that's what we want and we're not a liberation army, we're really an occupation army.

To the extent we can begin to draw down our troops in a reasonable way, that takes away the argument from the insurgents and those who criticize us there.

PHILLIPS: You met with the chief of staff for the Iraqi armed forces as well. What was your impression with how those troops are doing and what did they tell you, and are they feeling confident that they can run this country or protect this country?

CARPER: What we heard from the Kurdish military leaders is that, initially, after we had come in and disbanded their army, not a smart thing to do. When you look back at the reason why it has taken them so long to stand up to their military and be effective, we literally walked in after the invasion, after we took down Saddam Hussein, and basically took out their army, and said, you're done, go home.

To try to rebuild an army and officer corps, it takes a long time. We're finally now getting to the place where they're able to go out and lead in operations and, again, to take in greater responsibilities. We have ourselves, I think, in part to blame for that, but what's done is done and now we have to move forward. T

The other thing that I found really interesting, Kyra, in places like Saudi Arabia and Jordan and Kuwait and other places, including some places where they didn't like the idea that we went in militarily to Iraq. They were saying what's done is done; it's happened.

We have to get over that and now they're realizing that they have a responsibility to come through and provide to Iraq these countries, these Arab countries that have a lot of money from their oil industry, they have a responsibility to come in and help on the trade side, to help on the side with respect to investing in the infrastructure and forgive Iraqi debt. It's not in their best interest to see Iraq sort of disintegrate into civil war, regional war and breeding ground for terrorism.

I think the other nations have awakened to that.

PHILLIPS: You bring up a good point. It will be interesting to see the other countries and how they do in Iraq with Iraq and if they are able to have a quid pro quo on resources, etc.

Senator Tom Carper, thanks for your time, sir.

CARPER: Thank you, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Straight ahead, fact or fiction online. It's a story that impacts everyone who has ever searched for information on the Internet. We're going to look at one popular online reference tool. It's under the gun. Which site is it?

Details just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Getting word of a suspicious package in California. Betty Nguyen working the story for us -- Betty.

NGUYEN: Yes, Kyra, we are learning about that suspicious package. Not a lot of information at this point, but it's on the side of Highway 15 in Corona, California. You can see right there the bomb squad robot that is on the scene. We want to get some more information now.

On the phone is Officer Taylor Cooper with California Highway Patrol. Officer, first of all, tell us about this device. What do you know about it?

OFFICER TAYLOR COOPER, CALIFORNIA HIGHWAY PATROL: At approximately 9:03 this morning, a Caltrans maintenance crew located a pipe bomb or what appeared to be a pipe bomb. It appeared to be about one inch in diameter and about one foot in length, metal object with both ends capped. And that gave the appearance of being an improvised explosive device.

NGUYEN: How did you come across -- or how did the crew come across this pipe bomb? Who notified them of it?

COOPER: Caltrans was doing routine maintenance on the side of the roadway and during their maintenance, they came upon it during their regular maintenance.

NGUYEN: We're watching now live video of this bomb squad robot there. Has the bomb been detonated?

COOPER: No, it has not. We've shut down both sides of the freeway for safety reasons. The Riverside County Sheriff's Department Bomb Explosive Unit is taking a look at it to see if it is an active bomb at this time.

NGUYEN: Yes, that's what I wanted to ask you. Are you absolutely sure that this, indeed, is a pipe bomb?

COOPER: It hasn't been confirmed yet. And that's the reason why we shut down the freeway, for safety reasons. And going to have the sheriff department, they're going to do a thorough, systematic investigation to determine if it is actually a live pipe bomb.

NGUYEN: Yes and the pictures that we're looking right now on the left side of the screen, you can see the bomb squad robot leaving the site of where that pipe bomb might be, that possible pipe bomb. But to the right-hand side of the screen, oh my goodness, you hear about traffic in California, but take a look at this. Traffic is backed up for how far, Officer?

COOPER: I would probably say in either direction, probably at least a couple miles.

NGUYEN: This is causing a major slow-down, I imagine. Tell me about the headache that it's causing for commuters there in Corona, California.

COOPER: You know, it's definitely impacting traffic and commuters, but we do ask the motoring public to remain calm and be patient. We do shut down the freeways for -- mainly for safety reasons. We don't want to get any of the motoring public injured or the officers of the sheriff department at the scene. So we just ask the public to remain calm at this time.

NGUYEN: Yes, safety, of course, is of the utmost importance. Again, we're watching in Corona California on Highway 15, as a possible pipe bomb has been found, speaking with Officer Taylor Cooper with the California Highway Patrol.

Kyra, we're going stay on top of this and determine exactly what it is once we know. And when that happens, we'll bring it you.

PHILLIPS: All right. Betty, thank you so much.

We're going to take a quick break. More LIVE FROM right after this.

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PHILLIPS: We're talking entertainment news now. After months of speculation, ABC News makes it official who will replace Peter Jennings on its flagship newscast.

CNN entertainment correspondent Sibila Vargas has the scoop. Hey, Sibila.

SIBILA VARGAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Kyra.

Well, they are already two of the most accomplished names in news and now Elizabeth Vargas and Bob Woodruff's careers are about to get even more impressive. The veteran broadcasters will replace the late Peter Jennings' as co-anchors of ABC's "World News Tonight." Today's announcement also confirmed that the network's flagship show will become the first evening newscast to broadcast a live version to the West Coast each night. Vargas and Woodruff take their new posts starting in January.

Well, Harry Potter's magic was good for a third straight win at the box office this weekend, taking in another $20 million. And soon enough movies like "The Goblet of Fire" and second place "Aeon Flux" could reach an even bigger audience. Nationwide, more than 150 movie theaters have added special systems to help the deaf, hard of hearing, blind or visually impaired and pressure is being applied for even more to do the same.

Complaints from the disabled community in New Jersey led to four theater chains there to add special device for the hearing impaired. And in New York, Attorney General Eliot Spitzer has spearheaded a similar movement with eight theater chains in his state, where an estimated two million people have some degree of difficulty with hearing. Spitzer calls an important part of pop culture that every adult should be able to enjoy.

And the new technologies being suggested to theaters included rearview captioning machines as well as audio devices that describe a film's content.

I think this is a good move, Kyra. I'm happy that the disabled will have something, you know, to look forward to. PHILLIPS: Totally agree. Sibila Vargas, thanks so much.

We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

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PHILLIPS: Well, we've been talking a lot about bird flu concerns and the new food safety guidelines about poultry are.

CNN's Sanjay Gupta actually went overseas to work on a special report, an hour special, matter of fact. And now, we're just seeing a part of what he's done explaining how this virus works. And he also talks with a doctor who spent most of his life stalking these wiley creatures.

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SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For nearly 50 years Robert Webster has specialized in flu viruses, and at the age of 73 he still works ten hours a day at St. Jude's Children's Hospital in Memphis trying to outsmart the virus that is already killing half the people it infects.

ROBERT WEBSTER, ST. JUDE CHILDREN'S RESEARCH HOSP.: I'm concerned that the first go, if you like, of H5N1, if it learns to transmit, won't be pretty. We're going to be faced with potential catastrophe.

GUPTA: To stop the virus, Webster says you have got to look at it closely, very closely.

WEBSTER: Under the electron microscope influenza viruses, spiky creatures, something like hedgehogs, if you like.

GUPTA: Those spikes on the surface of the virus are proteins. In H5N1 the H stands for hemagglutinin protein. That's this one. It attaches the virus to the respiratory tract. This is the N short for neuraminidase or molecular scissors.

The flu virus uses its H protein to darken the surface of the cell and invade. Then it hijacks the cell's own machinery to produce literally thousands of copies of itself.

The N spikes, the scissors, cut the new viruses free from the cell, turning them loose to infect new cells in the respiratory tract. To fight the flu you target either the H or N protein.

Webster's vaccine, in fact, any flu vaccine takes aim at the H spike. So the virus can't enter cells in the first place to make people sick.

The flu virus is simple. In fact it contains only eight genes. But the virus has a menacing trick up its sleeve, those genes constantly change, more than most organisms.

WEBSTER: I compare it to a production line for an automobile. No quality control on the workers. They just throw the pieces in and most of the time it's disasters. But every now and again it can give a master strain.

GUPTA: Those master strains contain mutations that allow it to invade your immune system. Your immune system doesn't recognize it. These constant mutations are the reason we need a new flu vaccine every year.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NATL. INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: It changes just enough that the vaccine from the previous year doesn't induce an immune response.

GUPTA: There is a problem with producing a vaccine against a virus that hasn't started spreading yet. If H5N1 mutates to spread easily between people would Webster's vaccine, the one that the government is stockpiling, still work?

WEBSTER: The vaccine, even though it's not a perfect match, would probably protect you from death. If you were vaccinated, you would still get infected. You would probably get very sick but not die.

GUPTA: This vaccine could buy us time, but a better vaccine, a perfect match, can't even be started until a new virus emerges.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

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PHILLIPS: Got a lot more ahead. Third hour of LIVE FROM coming up right after a quick break. Stay with us.

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THOMAS KEAN, FMR. 9/11 COMMISSION CHMN.: We believe that the terrorists will strike again so does every responsible expert that we have talked to. If they do, and these reforms that might have prevented such an attack have not been implemented, what will our excuses be?

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PHILLIPS: Strong words even stronger criticism of the federal government. It's been almost a year and a half since the 9/11 Commission released its final report containing dozens of recommendations to improve homeland security.

Technically the group disbanded in August of last year, but all ten members went on to create the privately funded 9/11 public discourse project to continue tracking the fight against terrorism.

Today, they issued a report card which details the things the group thinks the government has done right, like establishing a director of National Intelligence. But, also, what it's done wrong like the allocation of security funds, not enough being done to secure U.S. nuclear facilities and materials, and one of the most shocking failures, the lack of establishing a dedicated radio frequency for first responders.

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LEE HAMILTON, FMR. 9/11 COMMISSION VICE CHMN: It is approaching the scandal, as I think that our first responders four years after 9- 11 are not able to communicate with one another when they reach the scene of a disaster.

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