Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live Today

Saddam Hussein on Trial; Lionel Tate Case

Aired December 05, 2005 - 11:31   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Saddam Hussein on trial. The court today heard gripping testimony about torture, rape and murder. And throughout the proceedings, there were moments of high drama. There are questions about how this trial is playing in the court of public opinion, especially in the Arab world.
Our senior editor for Arab affairs, Octavia Nasr, here with me with a closer look at that.

Good morning.

OCTAVIA NASR, CNN SR. EDITOR FOR ARAB AFFAIRS: Good morning to you.

KAGAN: How is it playing in Arab media?

NASR: Well, with a lot of curiosity. Again, the curiosity is still there, high interests. But today was a big day. You know, Arabs were wondering how the judge was going to perform. They wanted to see an actual day of trial to see how the judge was going to perform. And they got what they wanted today. The judge was really tried today. He was challenged early on. His courtroom was a bit of a circus at times. But at the end of the day, he got it all together.

I was checking Web sites to see how people are responding to the whole trial idea, and they still like the judge, and that's a good thing.

KAGAN: We were talking to one of the advisers, an American law professor in the last hour, and he said they were specifically trying to go for a judge that would seem fair on both sides. From a Western perspective, it seems like he's going too far toward the defendant, toward Saddam Hussein, and not holding control of the courtroom.

NASR: That's not how it's seen in the Arab world. Arab media are not highlighting it this way. As a matter of fact, they see him as being more on the side of the prosecution. Today, for example, they highlighted the fact that he's allowing the witness, who's also an accuser in this case, he's not just a witness here, he's an accuser. He was allowed, they said, more time than the defendants and their lawyers.

The problem here, it's a whole different court system that we're dealing with, that the West is not used to. The civil court system is very different in the sense that you do allow the witness to have their whole presentation before anybody challenges them. And even if they do challenge them, they don't that in a cross-examination way. They have to do it through the judge.

Now what happened today is the judge really didn't have much control over the situation, so he allowed the defendants to talk directly to the witness, which is a no-no in that kind of scenario. But he allowed it. This is where some people said that this is a weakness. But on Arab media, according to Arab experts, that's still a good thing, because they believe that this judge has the very tough task of looking fair, and basically they see this as a way to be fair in court.

KAGAN: Explain this to me, Octavia. Why the sympathy toward Saddam Hussein? This is a man who is well known for his brutality. He's an invader. He invaded Kuwait. He was gassed his own people. And he wasn't even in the Muslim world seen as somebody who was a devout Muslim. So why now sympathy for him?

NASR: I don't think it's sympathy; I do not see sympathy. What I do see a lot of is people asking for fairness. People saying, look, this man is not going to walk free. This man is going to end up either in jail for the rest of his life or executed. So they do not see him walking free, because they do believe all the atrocities that he's, you know, accused of committing, that he had committed them. There's no question about that.

The idea of fairness here is very important. And this is where the Arab intelligentsia comes in to say, look, we do not have a written history of the time, the 30-plus years, that he ruled his country, and that is necessary. So they believe a trial like this, if it's fair, it will bring to the table a written history of what happened during those 30 years.

Many people say, you know, this happened, that happened, people don't have records, and they hope that a trial like this one will bring in the records, but, they say, it has to be fair if you want a fair record for history.

KAGAN: Fascinating to see it through those eyes.

Octavia, thank you, Octavia Nasr.

For a complete look at Logon to our Web site at CNN.com/specials. You can watch at testy between Hussein and the judge, as well as see a timeline of events leading up to this trial.

It's the same message, but a different messenger today, laying out the Bush administration's plan for victory in Iraq. About two hours ago, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld spoke at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies, saying the U.S. progress in Iraq should not be judged on death toll alone. The American death toll has surpassed the 2,100 mark in Iraq, and the administration is under increased pressure to bring the troops home. Rumsfeld said now is not the time to do that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECY. OF DEFENSE: In my view, quitting is not a strategy. Quitting is an invitation to more attacks and more terrorist violence here at home. This is not just a hypothesis. The U.S. withdrawal from Somalia emboldened Osama Bin Laden in the 1990s. We know this. He said so.

The message that retreat in Iraq would send to the free people of Iraq and to moderate Muslim reformers throughout the region and the world would be that they cannot count on America. The message it would send to our enemies would be that America will not defend itself against terrorists in Iraq, and it will not defend itself against terrorists anywhere.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: The president plans a second in a series of speeches on Iraq this week. Vice President Dick Cheney plans one tomorrow.

Meanwhile, the secretary of state is strongly defending the U.S. policy on terror suspects today. Condoleezza Rice's remarks came ahead of her departure for Europe. She's sure to get questions about reported but unconfirmed secret CIA prisons on the continent. At Andrews Air Force Base, outside Washington this morning, she appeared to imply any activity the U.S. conducted had the approval of the European government. Rice was emphatic the U.S. activity did not include torture.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECY. OF STATE: The United States does not transport and has not transported detainees from one country to another for the purpose of interrogation using torture. The United States does not use the airspace or the airports of any country for the purpose of transporting a detainee to a country where he or she will be tortured. The United States has not transported any one, and will not transport anyone to a country when we believe he will be tortured. Where appropriate, the United States seeks assurances that transferred persons will not be tortured.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Rice suggested that intelligence from terror suspects has prevented attacks on the continent. Her first stop is Berlin. She will meet the new German chancellor, Angela Merkel.

Back here in the U.S. now, he was only 13 years when he was initially sentenced to life in prison. Today, Lionel Tate is 18, and he went back before a judge. He's accused of violating probation and committing armed robbery.

John Zarrella is in Fort Lauderdale, where Tate's hearing wrapped up just a couple hours ago -- John.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, and it was certainly a surprise what happened today. Lionel Tate, the youngest person ever convicted and sentenced to life in prison for a murder of his 6-year- old playmate. He was in court today, what was supposed to be a hearing for probation violation, but that did not happen. Instead, Lionel Tate sent a letter to the judge last Friday, and in that letter, Lionel Tate asked the judge to grant him a competency evaluation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE JOEL LAZARUS, BROWARD CO. CIRCUIT COURT: In the letter, which I just filed with the court file states, in part, that he is writing to me asking me for a competency evaluation, because he is, quote, "hearing voices and I want to kill myself."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZARRELLA: What's interesting here is that two years ago an appeals court threw out Lionel Tate's original murder conviction because, because during his original trial, he did not have a competency evaluation or a hearing before or during that trial. Lionel Tate was then allowed to plead guilty to second-degree murder. He was released about two years ago from prison, and out on probation for the last two years.

But during that time, Daryn, he ran in -- had problems, run-ins with the law on several occasions, and the hearing today was supposed to be on an accusation that he committed armed robbery of a pizza- delivery man. That hearing did not take place. The competency hearing will take place now on December 19th before anything else happens. And Judge Joel Lazarus does have the power to send Lionel Tate back to prison for the rest of his life if he so chooses -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Meanwhile, is he in custody?

ZARRELLA: Yes, he is in custody. He's been in custody since July, awaiting the hearing on this particular charge, the armed- robbery charge. And he remains in custody now through that hearing on the 19th. And certainly through the holidays before they have the next set of hearings, which would be on the armed-robbery charge, sometime after the first of the year now -- Daryn.

KAGAN: John Zarrella, live from Fort Lauderdale, thank you.

What led an Ohio woman to the bodies of two New Hampshire children missing for more than two years? Well, it was a lot of hard work and the memory of a desperate mother crying out for the public's help, after her husband confessed to killing the children and burying their bodies somewhere in the Midwest. Stephanie Dietrich began looking for the children in northeastern Ohio when pollen found in their father's vehicle indicated their grave site could be in her area.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANIE DIETRICH, FOUND CHILDREN'S BODIES: When I knocked that little cross loose, and I knelt down and picked it up, because I thought it was going to be a duct-taped cross, two pieces stuck on the black plastic. And as soon as I picked it up, I was like, (INAUDIBLE), come on, we're going to get the cell phone. And it just -- I knew. It was enough for me that I wasn't going to dig anymore, and I was -- if I had to jump straight up and down, I was going to get help out here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Autopsies showed the siblings died from multiple gunshot wounds. Their father committed suicide while he was in jail.

Forty-one minutes past the hour. When we come back, you've heard us talk about it, the deadly H5N1 virus, or bird flu. Dr. Sanjay Gupta will explain what those letters and numbers really mean for your health.

And you have your airbags, you've buckled up, you checked the tires. But is your car really safe? We'll look at the new gold standard and silver-star rating.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: The race to prevent a bird flu pandemic taking place in research labs around the world. Scientists hope to come up with a vaccine that could possibly save millions of lives.

More now from our senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): For nearly 50 years, Robert Webster has specialized in flu viruses. And at the age of 73 he still works 10 hours a day at St. Jude Children's Hospital in Memphis, trying to outsmart the virus that is already killing half the people it infects.

DR. ROBERT WEBSTER, ST. JUDE CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL: I'm concerned that the first go, if you like, of H5N1, if it learns to transmit, won't be pretty. We are going to be faced with potential catastrophe.

GUPTA: To stop the virus, Webster says you've got to look at it closely, very closely,.

WEBSTER: Under the electromicroscope, influenza viruses are spiky creatures, something like hinge (ph) bombs, if you like.

GUPTA: Those spikes on the surface of the virus are proteins. In H5N1, the "H" stands for hemagglutinin protein. That's this one. It attaches the virus to the respiratory tract.

This is the "N," short for neuraminidase, a molecular scissors. The flu virus uses its H protein to dock in the surface of the cell and invade. Then it hijacks the cell's own machinery to produce literally thousands of copies of itself. The N spikes, the scissors, cut the new viruses free from the cell, turning them loose to infect new cells in the respiratory tract.

To fight the flu, you target either the H or the N protein. Webster's vaccine -- in fact, any flu vaccine -- takes aim at the H spike so the virus can't enter cells in the first place to make people sick.

The flu virus is simple. In fact, it contains only eight genes. But the virus has a menacing trick up its sleeve. Those genes constantly change more than most organisms.

WEBSTER: I compare it to a production line for an automobile. No quality control on the workers. They just threw the pieces in and most of the time it's disasters. But every now and again it can give a master strain.

GUPTA: Those master strains contain mutations that allow it to evade your immune system. Your immune system doesn't recognize it. These constant mutations are the reason we need a new flu vaccine every year.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It changes just enough that the vaccine from the previous year doesn't induce an immune response.

GUPTA: There is a problem with producing a vaccine against a virus that hasn't started spreading yet. If H5N1 mutates to spread easily between people, would Webster's vaccine, the one that the government is stockpiling, still work?

WEBSTER: The vaccine, even though it's not a perfect match, would probably protect you from death. If you were vaccinated, you would still get infected. You would probably get very sick, but not die.

GUPTA: This vaccine could buy us time, but a better vaccine, a perfect match, can't even be started until a new viewers emerges.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Watch Sanjay's special. It's called "KILLER FLU." It airs Sunday, December 10th at 10:00 p.m. Eastern.

Coming up, maybe you drove one to work this morning. Maybe you're going to pick one up. How about maybe you're going to pick up the kids in one a little bit later. What are the safest cars on the road? Why am I trying to read this? We'll work on that. Still ahead, we're going to steer you in the right direction and we're going to get my eyeballs back in their socket.

We're back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: You can drive the car, but you got to pay for the gas. Prices are down another 11 cents in the last two weeks. The Lundberg Survey finding a gallon of self-serve regular will cost you an average of $2.13. That's almost a dollar down from post-Katrina highs. But one analyst says this fall's price slide appears to be over. Already, strong demand is pushing up crude prices once again. So, speaking of cars, the latest rankings on which cars are the safest are out this morning. A car made by troubled automaker Ford tops the list.

CNN's Carol Lin explains which cars won safety honors and how they were tested.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three, two, one.

LIN (voice-over): Even at 20 miles an hour, any car crash can have devastating consequences. Tonight, for the first time, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety is announcing its top safety picks according to car size.

Every car maker's 2006 models were surveyed. And to win, the model had to give passengers good crash impact protection from all sides.

In the small car division, the four door Honda Civic earns top marks. And no other small car even qualified for an award.

Mid-sized cars make up about 40 percent of all new cars sold. Saab 9-3 and Subaru Legacy are on top. Audi, Volkswagen, and Chevrolet ended up with silver medals.

For large cars, the top safety picks, Ford's Five Hundred and its twin Mercury Montego.

All winners were equipped with side impact air bags for head protection.

Carol Lin, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

(WEATHER REPORT)

KAGAN: I'm Daryn Kagan. International news coming your way next. Stay tuned for "YOUR WORLD TODAY." Jim Clancy and Zain Verjee will be with you after a quick break.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com