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American Morning
Dramatic Developments in Saddam Hussein Trial; In Israel, a Suicide Bomber Targets Shoppers at a Mall
Aired December 05, 2005 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.
I'm Miles O'Brien.
Dramatic developments in the Saddam Hussein trial this morning. We've seen a walkout by the defense team and angry and emotional testimony directed at Hussein himself. Live to Baghdad shortly.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Soledad O'Brien.
Another developing story to tell you about out of Israel. A suicide bomber targets shoppers at a mall. Five people are now dead in that attack. We're going to take you there live.
M. O'BRIEN: And severe storms hitting all along the East Coast. Messy roads could make for a dangerous day out there. We'll tell you what to expect ahead on this AMERICAN MORNING.
S. O'BRIEN: Good morning.
Welcome, everybody.
Wow!, what a scene it has been in the Saddam Hussein trial. We've been monitoring that trial and, of course, they are, as they always are, on a sort of 30-minute delay. So often the reports we get about what's happening in the courtroom precede seeing it on videotape. It has been remarkable, to say the least.
M. O'BRIEN: It'll be very interesting to see what the reaction is among the Iraqi people finally hearing testimony that is relevant to the alleged crimes. So it's just -- it's absolutely riveting.
S. O'BRIEN: Yes, and, in fact, one witness actually was on the stand and he was essentially lashing out, describing the shooting of his 11-year-old sister, the torture of his brother, telling the defendants at one point, "Go to hell."
The defendants were shouting in the courtroom and the lawyers all walked out until the judge let them have their say.
It brings us all to Nic Robertson.
He's in the courtroom and he joins us by phone now -- Nic, I know the court is on a break.
What's been happening in the last few minutes? NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In the last few minutes, I think the judge is preparing now to begin the trial again. And what he's going to do is ask the witness -- he just asked the witness before the break what sort of compensation is required and the witness said that it was both moral and financial compensation. So we may hear from the witness on that.
What was very striking was just the amount of anger that the witness had, that he was even arguing with the judge, because he wanted to bring in so many issues.
But watching Saddam Hussein and his half-brother, who are so heavily implicated directly by this witness, whenever he spoke about -- whenever the witness spoke about them by name they bridled. They tried to interject.
The judge very forceful, as we have seen the judge today, taking a much stronger role, trying to push the proceedings forward. Told Saddam Hussein, told his -- told Saddam Hussein's half-brother just be quiet, you'll get your turn, the defendants will get their turn. He made sure they had pens and pencils so that they had pencils and notebooks so that they could take notes down. But very much giving the floor to the witness.
The witness taking the whole courtroom through a litany of atrocities, from being rounded up to party headquarters in Dujail to seeing bodies, the interrogation headquarters in Baghdad, transported there with his family, and then on to Abu Ghraib jail, where he describe many, many, many horrific tortures and then finally being released in the desert more than four -- or almost four years later -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Really hard to listen to this testimony. The witness himself at points breaking down.
But what about the defendants as they hear some of the details of the testimony?
ROBERTSON: This is their chance, if you will, to try and refute that as it comes by, by facial expressions, by smiling, by turning to each other, by looking over to their defense lawyers. The defense lawyers sat impressively through it. On the faces of the prosecution lawyers, big smiles.
The defendants, I wouldn't say that they were squirming. They were trying to -- particularly Saddam Hussein and his half-brother -- were trying to interject and trying to discount and disclaim what was said about them.
But, again, an air of unreality in their response, very serious allegations. The case against them is beginning to unfold in all its graphic color, in the color and details Iraqis have only ever imagined before. Now, this is the very first time that people are getting firsthand accounts in a courtroom, face to face with Saddam Hussein and the other leaders in his regime -- Soledad. S. O'BRIEN: A few moments ago, Nic, we saw a videotape that was sent earlier of Saddam Hussein almost in hysterics, laughing, as the testimony is going on by this witness.
Do you recall that moment?
ROBERTSON: I was sitting behind Saddam Hussein, so it's very difficult for me to see what his facial expressions are until he turns around. But there are moments that we can see from where we are where he's leaning back in his chair, where there's an air, from what we can see, where he is not taking this seriously.
But unfortunately from the position I sit in I cannot always see his face.
S. O'BRIEN: It is bizarre, I tell u. He goes literally from being almost hysterical with laughter to being deadly serious in about one second. It must be just fascinating to watch this trial.
Nic, thanks for updating us. I know you have to run back in. We'll check with you again a little bit later.
M. O'BRIEN: Another developing story. This one comes from Israel. A suicide bombing in a shopping mall. Five are injured, 35 -- excuse me, five are killed 35 injured, in Netanya, which is just north of Tel Aviv.
John Vause joining us now from Jerusalem -- John, you spoke to a representative from the prime minister's office.
What's the reaction from there?
JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Miles.
A short time ago, this adviser to the Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon, saying the prime minister will hold a meeting with all the heads of the security agencies to decide what the military response will be. We should see that within the next 12 to 24 hours.
But as far as the bigger picture goes, this adviser saying there is now a moment of truth for the Palestinians. The Palestinian Authority and the president, Mahmoud Abbas, can now decide to try and disarm these militant groups, like Islamic Jihad, which claimed responsibility for this suicide bombing, or the road map, the U.S.- backed peace plan, will end here and now.
He said that Israel will simply park where they are, build more fences, continue with intelligence operations and targeted killings and there will be no movement whatsoever on the road map to peace -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: John Vause in Jerusalem, thank you very much.
Let's check some other headlines now.
Carol Costello in with that -- good morning, Carol. CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Miles.
Good morning to all of you.
The U.S. is not ready for another terrorist attack. That's the conclusion of a 9/11 Commission. The Commission is just two hours away from releasing its final report on national security and it doesn't look good. The former Commission chairman, Thomas Kean, says too many recommendations have not been followed. He says: "People are not paying attention."
President Bush is promoting his economy policies. He heads to North Carolina today. He'll tour a construction equipment plant where business is booming to talk about the growing economy.
CNN will have live coverage for you on the president's speech. That starts at 1:15 Eastern this afternoon.
Tackling the bird flu -- officials at the Department of Health and Human Services meeting this morning with state and local officials. They're trying to come up with a response plan in case of a possible pandemic.
CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta will be here in the next hour to talk about the bird flu pandemic.
And San Diego is looking for a new motto. That's because people there no longer consider themselves America's finest city. You remember that press conference, don't you? The motto was quietly dropped from the city's Web site after a series of public scandals that involved that guy, who would be Congressman Duke Cunningham. He stepped down after pleading guilty in a bribery case.
The city's mayor stepped down while under investigation and two councilmen quit after being implicated in a bribery scandal involving a strip clue. So, here are some suggestions for a new motto from readers of the "San Diego Union Tribune: ... Scandalicious, Bunglers By the Bay, or San Diego -- An Eruption of Corruption.
Let's go to the saltiness of snow -- Jacqui Jeras.
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: They need a self-esteem boost there, don't they, in San Diego?
(WEATHER REPORT)
S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin -- you've heard him urging all the evacuees to come back home. But is there a real plan to bring them back? We're going to talk this morning to the mayor of Atlanta, home to thousands -- tens of thousands of evacuees right now.
M. O'BRIEN: And later, our online gift guide continues. Today, four Web sites to help you find the ultimate gift for your favorite sports fan.
Stay with us for more AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
S. O'BRIEN: New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin making the rounds and asking tens of thousands of residents who were forced out by hurricane Katrina to come home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR RAY NAGIN, NEW ORLEANS: The Big Easy is not very easy right now. So come back fully understanding and expecting to have some challenges.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
S. O'BRIEN: That was at a town hall meeting in Atlanta, where tens of thousands of evacuees are still living.
Join us this morning is the mayor of Atlanta, Mayor Shirley Franklin.
Nice to see you, Ms. Mayor.
Thank you for talking with us.
MAYOR SHIRLEY FRANKLIN, ATLANTA, GEORGIA: Good morning.
It's good to be with you.
S. O'BRIEN: Thank you very much.
How many families are you, or, really, is your city hosting from Katrina?
FRANKLIN: Well, we have registered through American Red Cross over 40,000 families in the metropolitan area. So we don't know quite how many are still here, but we know that there are tens of thousands of families in the Atlanta area.
S. O'BRIEN: That town hall looked like it was tough, I mean listening to some of the things people were saying.
Let's play a small chunk of this. I just thought this was just heartbreaking.
Let's listen for a sec.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about me? Because I work. I ain't on welfare. I ain't on food stamps. I ain't on Section 8. I paid (UNINTELLIGIBLE). I'm sick of it. I don't want to stay here. Then they talking about who's threatening FEMA. Ain't no threatening because it ain't fair. This is the words of (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and I'm sick and I'm here. One (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the house but I've got to get. I've had it. I'm finished. I just need somewhere to go. I want to go home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
S. O'BRIEN: Wow! I just want to go home. I mean it's just -- the frustration obviously evident.
Did you hear a plan in that town hall meeting in Atlanta? Did you hear a plan?
FRANKLIN: Well, I think the mayor is -- and his staff -- are trying to put together a plan. It's not easy to do. Clearly, there are responsibilities at the local level, but at the state level and the federal level. It's hard to have a plan when you don't have electricity yet.
So I think that he's working hard. He came to talk directly to people and I applaud him for that.
I was sitting next to that young woman when she was speaking, so I could feel the emotion.
S. O'BRIEN: Yes, shoot, I could feel the emotion from here and I wasn't anywhere near her.
If you're saying, you know, there's no power yet and they're working on a plan, do you think asking people to come home en masse is a little premature on the mayor's part.
FRANKLIN: Well, the mayor made it really clear that some people would be able to come home and some will not be able to come until after January some time. He basically said he was welcoming people back in January. That's 30 days from now. He's very optimistic. We are optimistic for him.
In the meantime, we're helping people to resettle for however long they'll be in Atlanta.
S. O'BRIEN: Of the 40,000 plus families -- I mean let's just round it off to 40,000 families that you might have in Atlanta, can you host them long-term if they decide to stay?
FRANKLIN: Well, the truth is that we are obligated, I think. These are Americans. They are people who were paying taxes, many of whom, most of whom were working and paying their mortgages and their rent. And we in Atlanta, across the region, are determined to make it as easy as possible for them to integrate into our community.
S. O'BRIEN: What's the effect been, not only on the housing market, because we've certainly heard enough stories about just how tough it is, but also for jobs and things like that?
FRANKLIN: Well, we've had a major job fair. We had 15,000 people come to a job fair hosted by our businesses, our local paper and lots of other employers. We are determined to help folks.
We can calculate about 1,000 families as a result of churches and religious organizations, city government and our non-profits. The biggest strain is on our non-profits, who are finding that they are being overrun. So we've really upgraded the contributions to these non-profits, like United Way, like Josea Feed the Homeless, like Travelers Aid, like American Red Cross. All of those agencies are faced with strains on their budget.
So the City of Atlanta actually put in a million dollars additional to those non-profits.
S. O'BRIEN: You mentioned a few minutes ago the mayor's challenges when he really doesn't even have electricity, you know, no power in some places.
When you hear plans about well, we're going to try to get Mardi Gras, it might be a few days shy of what it normally is, I mean do you think and did the people at this town hall think hey, how about less focus on Mardi Gras and more focus on actually getting power to my neighborhood so I can return one day soon?
FRANKLIN: Well, the truth is the mayor made it clear that he argued against Mardi Gras for this year. He was one of those few voices in Louisiana that thought that they should forego Mardi Gras. But he was overruled. There is another authority that makes that decision.
So he was very forthcoming. He obviously now has to accommodate it, even though he was against it.
I personally think that we should get people housed, children in school, as many people trained or retrained so they can get jobs and get on with their lives.
S. O'BRIEN: I guess there's a big symbol or symbolism if Mardi Gras does, indeed, go off without a hitch.
Atlanta Mayor Shirley Franklin join us this morning.
Nice to see you, Ms. Mayor.
Thank you for talking with us.
FRANKLIN: Thank you very much.
Have a good day.
S. O'BRIEN: Thanks.
You, too -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: Always has the flower there. She always looks good with that flower, doesn't she?
All right, always good to see Shirley Franklin.
Still to come on the program -- there she is. Still to come on the program, we're ready to help you find the perfect gift for a sports fan this holiday session. Daily Candy, Dannielle Romano. Back in a moment. We're going to tour some Web sites for u. Get your pen and paper ready so you can take down the sites.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
M. O'BRIEN: All right, it's time once again to find out how to do your shopping without ever taking off your jammies. Yes, that's right, you can do it all online these days. It's gotten to the point where it really is kind of silly to go out shopping, unless you like doing it.
Joining us now is Dannielle Romano, editor-at-large, Dailycandy.com.
Do you like to shop, actually, in a, you know, brick and mortar?
DANNIELLE ROMANO, DAILYCANDY.COM: From time to time...
M. O'BRIEN: Yes.
ROMANO: But that involves wearing pants and that's -- and therein lies the rub. Yes.
M. O'BRIEN: I'm not going there.
ROMANO: Jammies, jammies, comfort of couch.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes, jammy (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
ROMANO: Speaking of couches, so women across America especially have this problem with yesterday, Sundays, at this time of year...
M. O'BRIEN: Yes.
ROMANO: Where the mostly men in their lives won't move and unless the actual couch is on fire, they are focused, like a laser, on these sports. We have what at this time of year...
M. O'BRIEN: You mean a fire will stop them?
ROMANO: Sometimes.
M. O'BRIEN: It depends how big.
ROMANO: Football, basketball...
M. O'BRIEN: Yes.
ROMANO: ... even hockey. It's like when does it end?
And even when that's over, there's baseball. Like there's never a good time.
So what to do with a sports fan, aside from set this house on fire?
M. O'BRIEN: Well, there is that spot after the Super Bowl, before spring training, there's about a week there, I think. But for the rest of the year...
ROMANO: They're like honey, enjoy it while it lasts.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes.
ROMANO: But you know what? Despite the abuse, we have to...
M. O'BRIEN: Yes, let's get to it.
ROMANO: ... and the neglect, we have to get them something. So remember, this isn't the time of year for a lecture. It's time to reward them for their occasional love.
Fan-Brands.com.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes?
ROMANO: Why is that sports loving and the barbecue gene, the observe barbecuing and grilling, go hand in hand?
This is a brand, you know, like...
M. O'BRIEN: Yes, an actual -- and when you say brand, you mean brands.
ROMANO: I mean like...
M. O'BRIEN: You can get like your favorite stock car number...
ROMANO: ... sizzler...
M. O'BRIEN: ... that kind of stuff, right?
ROMANO: Exactly. On the grill, so they have college sports. They're working on the NFL. You see how I hesitate before I can NFL. I'm like that other kind of football.
M. O'BRIEN: I know that. now, look at this. Now, if you're a fan of Bill Elliott, number nine on NASCAR, look how you can make your steak look. Can you get a shot of that there so you can see that?
ROMANO: You can do it on a burger...
M. O'BRIEN: There you go. You've got a number nine on your steak.
ROMANO: ... on chicken.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes, isn't that great.
ROMANO: They have all the college sports teams, too, so, you know, from your Tar Heels to your Nittany Lions...
M. O'BRIEN: Fan-Brands. Literally, brands.
ROMANO: ... sizzle.
M. O'BRIEN: Now, you like to golf?
ROMANO: There are a lot of golfers out there.
M. O'BRIEN: There are.
ROMANO: So I say send them away. Wideworldofgolf.com has been putting together these really cool like sort of fancy fantasy golf packages for something like 50 years. So they know where the best golf is and how to -- so they take care of all the details.
M. O'BRIEN: Package deals. Go to Scotland, go wherever you like.
ROMANO: Exactly, like, you know, play, you know, nine holes here, nine holes here in the afternoon. You're like, you know, they're in heaven, for whatever reason.
M. O'BRIEN: Right. Right. And you could put that all together, including the transportation and all that stuff.
ROMANO: They do all the work for you and maybe, you know.
So what about actually being there, you know? It's like nothing beats actually hearing the roar of the fans.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes.
ROMANO: But I'm kind of scared of scalpers and I don't know where you would get like sold out NFL tickets.
Fatlens.com is a search engine. We like the online ease.
M. O'BRIEN: Right.
ROMANO: They will search every retailer of tickets online, and not just the big guys, including the classifieds, like Craig's List. So if there are tickets being sold somewhere, however nefarious or official, for the Rose Bowl, for whatever...
M. O'BRIEN: So it makes no judgment?
ROMANO: It makes no judgment.
M. O'BRIEN: It just -- it accrues Super Bowl tickets...
ROMANO: It just tells you where the tickets are.
M. O'BRIEN: Look at those -- look at that price range there.
ROMANO: Yes. So it shows you -- they have like... M. O'BRIEN: $3,300; $2,600; $18,000.
ROMANO: What the heck is that?
M. O'BRIEN: That must be quite a package, right?
ROMANO: So that's some kind of package.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes.
ROMANO: So they have these official online retailers that you are I might have never heard of.
M. O'BRIEN: I'm afraid to hit buy.
Ooh, gosh, I hope I didn't just get it.
ROMANO: I don't think we just bought anything.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes, OK.
ROMANO: We're find.
M. O'BRIEN: That's good to know.
But look at that. Look at the amount of money you can spend just to see that one football game.
ROMANO: And for them it's prices.
M. O'BRIEN: For those of you -- of course, you've got to have snack food, right?
ROMANO: For those whose sports activity involves the use of the thumb and the remote, why not get them the best potato chips in the world for your little couch potato? Shearers?
M. O'BRIEN: Oh, these are the best.
Have you tried these?
ROMANO: I love the salt and vinegar.
M. O'BRIEN: Oh, really?
ROMANO: They have all these -- they're kettle cooked. They're this like family owned company in Ohio and they're just really, really yummy.
M. O'BRIEN: OK.
ROMANO: Really decadent. They say, you know, they're like no trans-fat or whatever. But, yum. Yum!
M. O'BRIEN: All right, from brands to chips, we've got it all. Daily Candy. ROMANO: Hello, sports fans.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, Dannielle Romano, thank you very much.
Dailycandy.com is the place.
You're the editor-at-large.
Thanks for dropping by again.
ROMANO: Thank you.
M. O'BRIEN: Coming up on the program, President Bush says the economy is in good shape, but do Americans agree?
We'll talk about that with the secretary of commerce ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
S. O'BRIEN: Good morning.
Welcome.
Look at that beautiful shot of Central Park with a light dusting of snow. How lovely. How cold.
M. O'BRIEN: As Carol would say.
S. O'BRIEN: And it's only the beginning.
COSTELLO: I know.
S. O'BRIEN: No, it's beautiful.
M. O'BRIEN: She's shivering.
COSTELLO: Oh, my...
S. O'BRIEN: I've got to tell you, it looks great there and it's so pretty, because this is our view right out the window.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes.
S. O'BRIEN: It is just fantastic in person.
COSTELLO: Man, you are seeing the glass half full this morning.
S. O'BRIEN: Yes. Come on.
M. O'BRIEN: All right.
S. O'BRIEN: Well, it's only the beginning of winter.
M. O'BRIEN: Do it.
S. O'BRIEN: If we hate it when there's a sprinkling of snow -- I have such bad news for u. For the whole rest of the winter.
COSTELLO: I know.
S. O'BRIEN: Come on, joyful, joyful, we adore thee. It's almost Christmas, blah, blah, blah.
M. O'BRIEN: When we made the snowman yesterday.
S. O'BRIEN: Yes?
M. O'BRIEN: One of my kids started eating the snow. I said, you know, no...
S. O'BRIEN: You're like oh no.
M. O'BRIEN: ... no, don't do that in New York.
S. O'BRIEN: We live in New York City now, honey. Don't do that ever.
M. O'BRIEN: No, no. No, no, no, no. This is not Vermont.
COSTELLO: Oh my gosh.
S. O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody.
M. O'BRIEN: Bad idea.
S. O'BRIEN: We've got lots to talk about this morning, lots of news from overseas, including the Saddam Hussein trial, which has been riveting, to say the very least.
COSTELLO: It has been riveting.
The Saddam Hussein trial in another recess right now, though. But the courtroom was anything but quiet this morning.
Things started off when Saddam Hussein's lawyers got into an argument with the judge and they walked out. It led to Saddam Hussein shaking his fist and shouting, "Long live Iraq!"
The trial resumed the following hour with the first witness of the day. He told Hussein to go to hell.
We'll be following the trial throughout our show.
Some college students getting a visit from Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld next week. Rumsfeld will speak on the future of Iraq at Johns Hopkins University. It could get interesting, too. Rumsfeld will field random questions from students and teachers after the speech.
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