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CNN Live Today
Surge in Kidnappings in Iraq; Saddam Hussein on Trial; Right- To-Die Case; Cheney Meets With Troops Just Back From War
Aired December 06, 2005 - 10:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's take a look at what's happening "Now in the News."
Little damage and no casualties are reported after five small bombs exploded near Madrid, Spain. We're told the bombs were planted on highways outside the Spanish capital. A government spokesman says the explosions followed a warning from the Basque separatist group ETA.
The Arabic TV network Al-Jazeera has aired video from a militant group showing what the group claims is an American taken hostage in Iraq. Al-Jazeera says the group identified as Islamic Army had given the U.S. 48 hours to meet its demands or it says that hostage will be killed.
Vice President Dick Cheney is back in the spotlight as the Bush administration keeps up its counteroffensive against critics of the war in Iraq. Later this hour, Cheney will address troops in Fort Drum, New York. We'll have that for you live when it happens.
After a visit to Germany, Romania is the latest stop for Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. She continues her European trip.
Rice's mission has been dogged by questions about reports of secret CIA prisons used in the war on terror. Earlier, Rice met with the new German chancellor, Angela Merkel, in Berlin.
There's word that an Iranian military transport plane crashed today south of Tehran after clipping a 10-story building. State-run television reports 110 people were killed, most of them aboard the plane. An official says the plane was returning to base after the pilot reported technical problems.
And good morning. Welcome back to CNN LIVE TODAY.
Checking some of the time around the world, just after 6:00 p.m. in Bucharest; just after 11:00 here in Atlanta, Georgia; and just after 7:00 p.m. in Baghdad.
From CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Daryn Kagan.
First up, a surge in kidnappings in Iraq. It's one of several angles that we are following on this busy news day in Baghdad.
We will cover the two suicide bombers who blew themselves up at a Baghdad police academy. Dozens of people are dead there. And we will hear the voice behind the blue curtain. A secret witness at Saddam Hussein's trial talks about brutal days as the regime's prisoners.
We are going to go ahead and start with our senior editor for Arab affairs, Octavia Nasr, the hostage story which is still developing.
It's being shown -- video being shown on Al-Jazeera. But in terms of identity and how this took place, what do we know?
OCTAVIA NASR, CNN SR. EDITOR, ARAB AFFAIRS: Al-Jazeera is giving the name of the hostage as given to them by, you know, that tape that they said they obtained. It's unclear how Al-Jazeera obtained the tape.
We are searching for the tape. Usually they surface on the hard- line Islamist Web sites. Still, we didn't find it on our own. So we reported as Al-Jazeera reported it.
They give a name, but CNN won't give that name and we won't show the video because, first of all, we have to confirm the identity of this man on the video, and also we have to make sure that if indeed it is -- this tape is legitimate, that the family is notified before we even report any of this. So at this point, we are reporting that Al- Jazeera showed the video, were describing it as well.
It's a lone man sitting down as if he has his hands tide behind his back. But again, CNN cannot -- cannot authenticate the tape or the source of the tape or anything, any material on that tape.
KAGAN: And as soon as we are able to, we will bring you back.
NASR: Absolutely.
KAGAN: Octavia Nasr.
Thank you, Octavia.
Also out of Iraq, Saddam Hussein is on trial. The woman was known only as Witness A. She testified behind a blue curtain and she sobbed as she testified about torture that she says was carried out by Saddam Hussein's regime.
CNN's Aneesh Raman joins us now from Baghdad -- Aneesh.
ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, good morning.
Witness A, the first of four witnesses so far to testify in today's court session, where at just about the time that yesterday the court adjourned. Instead, right now they are in recess, expecting perhaps another witness to begin testimony when the court reconvenes.
All of the witnesses today have been kept anonymous, testifying behind, as you mentioned, a blue curtain. Their voice has been altered in the courtroom itself, their names withheld, only known as Witness A, B, C and D.
The first two witnesses today were females, villagers all of the town of Dujal, north of the Iraqi capital. A witness began the day with wrenching testimony, describing what took place after that failed assassination attempt on Saddam Hussein in July, 1982. She talked specifically about the torture that she endured.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): He lifted my legs upward, and they tied my hands. And they would hit me with -- beat me with cables and electric shock. How do you describe that?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAMAN: Now, all day we've heard similar testimony in terms of abuse suffered at the hands of Saddam's intelligence service. But really one witness has begun pointing the finger specifically at one of the co-defendants of Saddam Hussein. And that is key. This is a trial; everything must be proven.
The fourth witness today spoke of Barzan Hasan, Saddam Hussein's half brother, seeing him at the Ba'ath Party headquarters in Dujail, something that Barzan in open court admitted to being, linking him directly, at least to the scene. They will go further, at least, the court, to link these defendants to the crime.
But all day, in the midst of this emotional testimony, the judge has been very keen to point out specifics to the question, "Who do you think was behind the torture? Do you have names? Do you think any of the defendants in this courtroom are directly responsible?" Because they have to prove this case in that court of law -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Aneesh Raman, live in Baghdad.
Thank you for that.
Outside the court proceedings, another deadly attack on Iraqi security forces. This time, two suicide bombers blew themselves up at a police academy in Baghdad, killing at least 36 officers and academy students. Police say more than 70 other people were wounded. The military initially said the bombers were female. That turned out not to be the case.
The military warned of an increase in insurgent attacks leading up to next week's elections.
U.S. and Iraqi troops are clamping down on Iraq's border with Syria to clear that area of insurgents. And now former NATO commander and presidential candidate General Wesley Clark says the military must also take greater control of Iraq's border with Iran. He says cutting back U.S. troops is not in the cards.
In an opinion piece in today's "New York Times," Clark writes, "We need to deploy three or four American brigades, some 20,000 troops with adequate aerial reconnaissance to provide training, supervision and backup, along with Iraq's several thousand miles of vulnerable border. And even then the borders won't be sealed. They'll be more challenging to penetrate."
Clark suggests there is a risk that Iran could become more powerful in the Persian Gulf region, emboldened by Iraq's Shiite political dominance.
We will hear what Vice President Cheney has to say about the war in Iraq in about a half-hour. He's expected to speak to the troops just back from Iraq at a rally in Fort Drum, New York.
We will carry that live at 11:45 a.m. Eastern.
The highest court in Massachusetts is hearing a right to die battle today that has echoes of the Terri Schiavo case. This time, though, it's an 11-year-old girl at the center of the controversy. And the fight over her future is only the latest chapter in a troubled and tragic life.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KAGAN (voice over): Eleven-year-old Haleigh Poutre lies in a Massachusetts hospital bed attached to the machines that keep her alive. Police say she was beaten nearly to death by her adoptive parent, Holli Strickland, and her husband, Jason.
Her doctors say that Haleigh Poutre won't recover. And the Massachusetts Department of Social Services, which has custody now of the little girl, wants her removed from life support. But Jason Strickland wants to keep her alive, and he's fighting a juvenile court ruling that she be allowed to die.
Strickland could face a murder charge if Haleigh Poutre dies. He's charged with taking part in the beating that left the girl in a coma. He says he's innocent, but the police report says, "It is clear that there was an ongoing pattern of abuse. And Jason as a caretaker for the child not only did nothing to stop the abuse, but he participated in it."
Strickland's lawyer defends his client and says the real issue is how the child will suffer if her feeding tube is removed.
EDWARD MCDONOUGH, STRICKLAND'S LAWYER: The question it whether or not and how an 11-year-old child will die. And there's no question that withdrawing a feeding tube and withdrawing water, you're going to have an awful death by starvation.
KAGAN: But there's still more to this tragic tale. A babysitter testified at a hearing last week that she saw Jason and Holli Strickland abuse the girl before the September beating that landed her in the hospital. Two weeks after pleading not guilty to abuse charges, Holli Strickland, who was Haleigh's aunt, was found dead, along with her 71-year-old grandmother.
Police are still investigating what was an apparent murder- suicide. (END VIDEOTAPE)
KAGAN: Jason Strickland's lawyer insists his client isn't motivated by the chance that he could be charged with murder if Haleigh dies. Strickland himself says that as the child's de facto parent, he should have a say in whether she lives or dies.
Eight minutes past the hour. Coming up, we'll go live to the Supreme Court, where justices are considering the way the military recruits on college campuses. Should the schools allow on campus a potential employer who they say discriminates? A closer look at what's at issue and what's at stake.
And in New Orleans, the story of heartbreak and horror. More than three months after Katrina, the discovery of two bodies is raising questions about how homes in the city were searched for the dead.
Also ahead, I'll speak with a member of the city's planning commission on the effort to reach out to families living in other parts of the country now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: Today lawmakers are taking a closer look at whether race and class issues affected the government's response to Hurricane Katrina. A special committee investigating the storm's aftermath is holding a hearing this afternoon. The panel will hear from civil rights leaders and evacuees.
Some displaced hurricane victims trickling back to New Orleans are making some somber discoveries. For one woman it was especially horrifying, as she found the bodies of two of her neighbors. The case raises questions about how thoroughly homes were searched after the storm.
CNN's Keith Oppenheim has details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Her nickname was Toni (ph), and this picture from 40 years ago is the only one friends could find of her. Eighty-eight-year-old Antonio Jackson (ph) lived with her 97-year-old husband Eddie in this house in Gentilly, a New Orleans neighborhood. Their best friend, Gwendolyn Alexander, checked in on them regularly, but says Hurricane Katrina changed all that.
The destructive floods of Mew Orleans forced her to flee to Texas. And ever since then, Gwendolyn says she's been trying to find out what happened to the Jacksons.
GWENDOLYN ALEXANDER, FRIEND OF JACKSONS: It's not like her. She would have called me.
OPPENHEIM: Gwendolyn says she kept making phone calls to the house and to authorities.
ALEXANDER: I called the police department. I had them drive by. They said they came in, they checked the House, nobody was in the house.
OPPENHEIM: In fact, when Gwendolyn came to the house once before she saw official markings on the outside seeming to indicate zero bodies were found in the home on September 14. She didn't go inside. Still, something didn't sit right with her.
ALEXANDER: Even when my kids would come here to New Orleans to see about their property, they'd ride bay and they said, "Mama, they have a zero on the house." I said, "You all go check on Miss Toni." They said, "Ma, they have a zero on the house. That means no one is in the House."
And that's what I kept saying. I said, "Well, maybe she's someplace else." It just stayed on my mind, check the House, check the house.
OPPENHEIM: Monday afternoon, Gwendolyn decided to check the house again. With some help from a friend she made the decision to go inside.
ALEXANDER: So he pushed the door open and we went in. And as we were walking in, when we got to the kitchen part, he tried to open the door back there so we could have a little light to see. And I screamed. That's all I can remember. I seen a body laying down on the floor and I screamed.
OPPENHEIM: Gwendolyn told me the body on the floor was Eddie. They later found Toni dead in the living room.
Gwendolyn was convinced until her entry no one had gone into the home to check on the Jacksons. We learned the markings came from the Oregon National Guard. Oregon Guard officials said the painted zero did not necessarily mean the inside of the home had been searched.
GEN. DOUGLAS PRITT, OREGON NATIONAL GUARD: The zero meant that there were no living inhabitants that identified themselves to us. We didn't put down that we found any remains, because we didn't enter homes to find remains.
OPPENHEIM: Keith Oppenheim, CNN, New Orleans.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAGAN: And Louisiana authorities are getting some help in identifying bodies from the hurricane. The state has hired DNA experts to test 263 bodies that have been in storage for weeks. They're going to try to match the remains with mouth swabs and other genetic material from people with missing relatives.
The commission on rebuilding New Orleans is holding a town hall meeting tonight here in Atlanta, home to thousands of Katrina evacuees. Oliver Thomas is on that panel. He also is president of the New Orleans City Council. Mr. Thomas joins us right now from our New Orleans bureau.
Good morning. Thanks for being here with us.
OLIVER THOMAS, NEW ORLEANS CITY COUNCIL: Hey. Good morning, Daryn. I appreciate you guy's story.
It seems like the storms attributed to Katrina never stopped. We're still finding bodies. We can't seem to put the worst of this behind us, even get to rebuilding. It's just a very, very, very bad, desperate situation down here.
KAGAN: But I know that people's hopes do lie in the rebirth of your city.
THOMAS: Yes, they do.
KAGAN: And your mayor, Ray Nagin, was here in town over the weekend. Let's take a listen to the kind of response he got from some of the evacuees that are currently living here in Atlanta, Georgia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to come home. Don't we?
(APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to come home. But we can't come home. There's nowhere to live. There's nowhere to stay. There's no water -- not in my resident. There's no electric.
So tell me, how can I come home?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAGAN: What would you say to that woman, Mr. Thomas?
THOMAS: Well, I'd say we had a meeting yesterday on trailers and temporary housing. That I would hope that we could pick up the pace with FEMA, we could begin to identify property that's vacant where we could place trailers. But, you know, we also have a situation where we've identified vacant properties, and there are some residents who don't want trailers in certain areas.
I think we need to have a lot of meetings with neighborhood groups, especially with district council people so that we can identify spots where we can put temporary housing and put temporary trailers.
The other thing we need to do is pick up the pace in dealing with housing and nonprofit housing groups, people like Habitat for Humanity and other groups that are ready to start building modular housing and temporary -- and permanent housing right now. There's a lot of vacant property, a lot of vacant lots. We can pick up the pace and start the rebuilding effort. It just has to be a coordinated effort to do that.
KAGAN: And besides that -- and herein lies what you'll face this evening -- you'll need a coordinated vision of what New Orleans is meant to be. And I bet you're having a tough time coming to that place.
THOMAS: Yes. Well, you know, the ULI came out with a report that some people agree with, a lot of people don't. But at least it gives us a discussion point where we can start planning the future of New Orleans.
Certain neighborhoods, I think, people are ready to start to rebuild. There are certain -- I'm working with the city planning commission right now and their great staff. They're working with the Office of Emergency Preparation with $64.7 million hazard mitigation grant to identify communities that you can start to raze, maybe tear down, do some excavation, so you can start re-planning those communities and determine what the future of those communities are.
But we can't get to that point until we have a number of discussions with residents around the country. So at least they can take a look at some preliminary plans so that they can have input into what happens in their community.
The one big mistake we can't make is we can't exclude the people who have -- who their entire life stake and everything they possess is still in New Orleans right now. They have to be included -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Now, how do you do that? Because how do you figure out who is somebody who's coming back to New Orleans and who's somebody who is not coming back to New Orleans, and how that's going to play into upcoming elections as well? That's going to -- has the potential to completely change the look of politics, not only in New Orleans, but across Louisiana.
THOMAS: Well, the number one thing we have to do is take some of the question marks out of a lot of these unanswered questions that people ask and give them the realities of it. What communities (INAUDIBLE), what communities look like, where we're going to have to maybe raze and change. What communities are we going to begin to rebuild?
Because, look, right now these question marks are killing people. You've heard about a lot of the suicides and a lot of the deaths attributed to this because of the stress and anxiety. If you tell people the realities, it puts the ball back in their court, and they have an opportunity to make a life decision about themselves, their business and their families.
These question marks are killing people, because they don't know. You know, we have hurry up and plan as quickly as possible, give people the realities so that they can make a decision. That way they're empowered. As long as they're not empowered, you're going to see hostility, you're going to see resentment, and you're going to see a lot of angry people.
KAGAN: Well, and you've been in there from day one, and you're still hanging in there. Oliver Thomas, president of the New Orleans City Council, thank you for your time. Good luck with that meeting tonight.
THOMAS: Well, Daryn, I appreciate you guys. You guys have been a blessing.
KAGAN: Thank you so much.
Coming up, when we come back, we're going to go live to the Supreme Court, where military recruiters on college campuses that host them, well, this case has both of their interests at stake.
We're back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: Well, we have a number of items happening right now all at the same time.
The top left part of your screen, that is Bucharest, Romania. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is there. We expect comments from there any moment.
The right part of your screen, upper right, Vice President Dick Cheney landing at Upstate New York. He will be speaking at Fort Drum on the war.
And the lower part of your screen, important arguments before the U.S. Supreme Court today about military recruitment on college campuses and does it discriminate against gays.
And then, we are also standing by. President Bush meeting today with the director of the World Health Organization, talking about things like bird flu and trying to prevent a spread around the world. Also, he -- the president answers questions, answers question on Iraq and some comments that former presidential candidate Howard Dean made yesterday at a San Antonio radio station.
Let's go ahead and listen in. It looks like we're getting the tape from the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's been my honor to welcome the director of the World Health Organization, Dr. Lee, to the Oval Office, where we have just had an extensive conversation with high-ranking officials in my administration about the international strategy to deal with a possible pandemic of avian flu.
And I want to thank you, Dr. Lee, for staying on top of this issue, for raising the consciousness of the world, for helping to develop an international response, and for working so closely with Mike Leavitt and Julie Gerberding and Bob Zoellick of the State Department. This is a remarkable collaborative effort to do our duty to help people.
The other thing that's really interesting, I found out, is Dr. Lee told me we're very close to eradicating polio.
And I want to congratulate you -- from the world, by the way -- and I want to congratulate you for your good work on that issue.
LEE JONG-WOOK, DIRECTOR GENERAL, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: Thank you.
BUSH: You're a good public servant, and I'm proud to welcome you here to the Oval Office.
LEE: Thank you very much.
Clearly we've been working on the avian flu and the pandemic flu for many years. But it really didn't take off until that president launched an initiative in September in New York. And then after that, he mentioned he raised this issue with many heads of state. That really made a difference.
I'm very honored to be here.
And about polio eradication, it was teamwork. I appreciated the effort of the United States, especially the AID and CDC. And in the presence of the secretary and also the director, Julie Gerberding, it is wonderful to be able say that we are about to eradicate polio.
BUSH: Thank you, Dr. Lee.
I'll answer a couple questions.
QUESTION: Yes. Thank you, Mr. President.
Insurgents in Iraq claim that they have taken a U.S. citizen hostage. We also have a U.S. peace activist who's being held. Is there anything you can do to get them back?
BUSH: We, of course, don't pay ransom for any hostages. What we will do, of course, is use our intelligence gathering to see if we can't help locate them. The best way to make sure that Iraq is a peaceful society is to continue to spread democracy.
And clearly there are some there who want to stop the spread of democracy. There are terrorists there who will kill innocent people and behead people and kill children, terrorists who have got desires to hurt the American people.
And it should be -- the more violent they get, the clearer the cause ought to be, that we're going to achieve victory in Iraq and that we'll bring these people to justice. We will hunt them down, along with our Iraqi friends, and at the same time spread democracy.
QUESTION: Howard Dean says the idea that the U.S. will win in Iraq is just plain wrong. And he's comparing the war to Vietnam. Is that a fair comparison? What do you think about it?
BUSH: I know we're going to win. And our troops need to hear not only are they supported but that we have got a strategy that will win.
Oh, there's pessimists, you know, and politicians who try to score points. But, no, our strategy is one that will lead us to victory.
The only thing that the enemy has got going for them is the capacity to take innocent life and to get on our TV screens with the devastation that they cause.
These people cannot stand free societies, they have no regard for the human condition, they'll kill women and children at the drop of a hat; all aimed at frightening the American people and trying to get us to withdraw.
And if we were to withdraw, the likes of Zarqawi, who is a sworn ally of bin Laden, would have safe haven from which to plot and plan.
The lessons of September the 11th are lessons this country will never forget. And we've got to take each threat seriously, we've got to stay on the offense.
In the long run, a democracy will help eradicate the conditions that allow these people to find any kind of support.
And so our strategy is twofold. On the one, we'll stay on the offense; we'll train Iraqi soldiers so they can take the fight to the enemy. And on the other hand, we'll continue to work with the Iraqi people to spread democracy.
And the American people must take notice of the fact that the people of Iraq are showing incredible courage in the face of this violence. I mean after all, there was an election last January to put a transitional national government in place. Then they voted on a constitution. And in a short period of time they're going to be voting for a new government.
They vote by the millions, which stands in stark contrast to the society in which they lived under the tyrant, Saddam Hussein, who by the way, is on trial, as he should be on trial. I think his trial is indicative of the change that has taken place in the Iraqi society.
BUSH: In the old days, if Saddam and his cronies didn't like it, you didn't get a trial. You were just put to death or tortured.
Today, there is a system -- a judicial system -- in place that will give Saddam Hussein a chance to make his case in court as well as giving those who have been tortured by Saddam Hussein a chance to step forth and provide witness to the brutality of this man.
Our troops need to know that the American people stand with them and we have a strategy for victory. And, of course, there will be debate. And, of course, there will be some pessimists and some people playing politics with the issue.
But, by far, the vast majority of people in this country stand squarely with the men and women who wear the nation's uniform.
QUESTION: Does your administration have any plans to change the policy of renditioning and/or the detention centers allegedly taking place in Europe?
First of all, I don't talk about secret programs, covert programs, covert activities. Part of a successful war on terror is for the United States of America to be able to conduct operations, all aimed at protecting the American people, covertly.
However, I can tell you two things: one, that we abide by the law of the United States and we do not torture; and, two, we will try to do everything we can to protect this within the law.
I mean, we're facing an enemy that would like to hit America again. And the American people expect us to, within our laws, do everything we can to protect them. And that's exactly what the United States is doing.
We do not render to countries that torture. That has been our policy. And that policy will remain the same.
Thank you all.
Looking forward to the big press party.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAGAN: We were listening in to videotape that was shot just a few minutes ago at the White House. President Bush appearing with Lee Jong-Wook, the head of the World Health Organization. Mr. Bush answering questions on Iraq, on reports of another American hostage taken in Iraq, on Saddam Hussein's trial, among other topics as well. Also word that President Bush will make another speech defending the U.S. plan about the war in Iraq and how he intends to carry on.
With more on that, let's go to the White House and Elaine Quijano standing by -- Elaine.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Daryn.
That's right, the president tomorrow will take his message before the Council on Foreign Relations at a speech here in Washington, really the second in a series of speeches leading up to the Iraq parliamentary inventions next week, on December 15th.
But it was interesting to note, listening to the president just now, when asked particularly about the comments by Howard Dean -- Howard Dean saying that the idea that the U.S. would win in Iraq, essentially saying that that was not possible -- the president, though, being very clear, and this really is an insight into why you are seeing the administration now come out very strongly, not just President Bush, but we have Vice President Cheney a short while from now who will be delivering a speech on Iraq as well, why they're coming out so strongly. The president talking about he understands that Americans are seeing these images, these violent images, that the terrorists, they do have the ability, of course, to carry out violence, but those images of violence are getting on the TV screens and frightening -- trying to frighten the American people.
President Bush, though, remaining very firm, as we've heard him say many times before, the U.S. is very resolute. President Bush, though, again, will take his message here in Washington, expanding upon some of what the administration sees as progress, not just on the security front, but the president tomorrow expected to focus on the Iraq economy and reconstruction efforts taking place there as well -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Elaine Quijano, live at the White House. Elaine, thank you.
As Elaine was mentioning, Vice President Dick Cheney expected to speak in about 15 minutes. He has just arrived in Upstate New York, at Fort Drum. He'll be speaking. you'll see those comments live here on CNN. Live pictures as they get ready for the vice president to come down the steps.
Also still to come, the policy is "don't ask, don't tell." There is vice president an Mrs. Cheney, right on cue, arriving to go speak at Fort Drum, New York.
As I mention, we'll see the vice president's comments. He's scheduled to get started in about 10 minutes. But about that "don't ask, don't tell" policy, it doesn't fly at some law school campuses where the U.S. military recruits. The Supreme court is weighing in on that. We'll check in with our reporter who's been inside during this morning's proceedings.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: To the Supreme Court now. Justices heard a case last hour highlighting the cultural divide in society. Some law schools ban military recruiters. It's their way to protest "don't ask, don't tell." That's the Pentagon's policy on gays. Can Washington retaliate by withholding federal dollars.
Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre and our legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin, our A team, both at the Supreme Court this morning.
Gentlemen, good morning.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Hi, Daryn.
KAGAN: Jamie, let me start with you. What is at stake here for the military to have access to these campuses?
MCINTYRE: It's a really interesting case, because it's really a case about discrimination, essentially can colleges and universities, law schools in particular, discriminate against the military, because it discriminates against homosexuals in its policies, under a mandate from Congress.
And someone who doesn't get to watch the Supreme Court arguments all the time, this is very interesting to me. First, the justices pointed out, particularly Justice Scalia, pointed out the inconsistency in part of the government's case, which is arguing on behalf of the recruiters, that they just say they want to be treated like everyone else, but the schools are treating them like everyone else, because they're not letting anybody who discriminates recruit.
But then, of course, the key question seemed to come down to the fact whether the schools are being compelled to deliver the government's message by hosting military recruiters.
And Justice Roberts, the chief justice, really seemed to hone in on the point that basically the schools can do and say whatever they want as long as they don't take government money. And that adds up to $35 billion in aid to education.
TOOBIN: Daryn.
KAGAN: There we go. My mike wasn't up. Let's bring you in here. This is a First Amendment case. How does that happen?
TOOBIN: Well, that's the interesting question. Is it a first amendment case? That was one of the real big arguments here. Because Chief Justice Roberts kept saying this case isn't about speech, it's about money. And the message of this case, I think, is he who pays the piper, calls the tune.
The government always attaches strings to the money it gives to states. It says to states, if you want to get federal highway money, you have to have a drinking age of 21. That's been approved by the Supreme Court. If you want federal money for your education -- for your university, you have to let military recruiters on.
Speech has nothing to do with it. That's what Chief Justice Roberts was saying. Justice Kennedy, who is usually sympathetic to free speech claims, was very supportive of the government. He was saying, look, if you want to protest gays in the military, sure, have a protest outside the recruiter's office, but don't ban the recruiters. That's not speech. The cure is more speech, not less speech.
So I think the government is looking very good in this argument. I think it's very likely this law will be upheld.
MCINTYRE: The question is it an unconstitutional condition to make the schools do this? And, you know, the one thing that was underlying here is that Congress has a specific constitutional duty to raise an army and military recruiting is a key part of that. So that seemed to play into the arguments, as well.
KAGAN: And, once again, we'll be hearing audio from the Supreme Court. This is kind of getting to be a regular thing.
TOOBIN: Well, that's actually -- sounds like it may be a signature of the Roberts years. Under Chief Justice Rehnquist, that was only done, I believe, two or three times in Bush v. Gore and the University of Michigan affirmative action case. So far, it's been done twice in the space of a couple of weeks. And the chief justice seems to be letting the court be a little more visible, or at least audible, to the public.
MCINTYRE: Yes, this is the 11th time that the court now has released audio recordings right after arguments. And as somebody, again, who hasn't listened to these arguments for more than a decade since I've been in the Supreme Court, very interesting how format they use, where they basically keep cutting off the attorneys as soon as they've made their initial point to pack as much information as they can into the hour. Lot of argument in that one hour.
TOOBIN: It's a very efficient system. And we're happy to have Justice McIntyre here with us.
MCINTYRE: I'm going to cut you off, because that's -- you've made your point.
KAGAN: I'm telling you, it's our A-Team at the front line of the Supreme Court. Jeff Toobin and Jamie McIntyre. Gentlemen, thank you.
TOOBIN: So long, Daryn.
KAGAN: And while we were talking to Jeff and Jamie, news coming out of the United Nations. One of the top elections officials today being fired.
With more on that, let's go to the Liz Neisloss at the U.N. Liz, what's the story behind the firing?
LIZ NEISLOSS, CNN U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's a surprising firing. This is a woman who heads the U.N. electoral assistance division. That is basically the unit that goes around the world and helps set up elections in countries, countries who have come out of war.
The woman, Carina Perelli, was seen as really a rising star in the United Nations. She was in charge of the unit that was setting up and is setting up the election in Iraq. And she had been accused by a United Nations report of having an office with -- an environment of sexual harassment.
But here's how this woman describes hearing about her firing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARINA PERELLI, FIRED U.N. OFFICIAL: Of course I was surprised. I mean, one of the things that -- I mean, I think it's the first case of a person in the history of the U.N. that learns she has been fired by reading your report in the media.
So Saturday afternoon, after having come back from long work in the city with my husband, get a phone call from a friend saying, have you heard the news? You have been fired. (END VIDEO CLIP)
NEISLOSS: So Perelli was escorted out of security, as you saw there, -- escorted out of the building by security, as you saw there. She just found out about the official word of her firing within the past hour. Her unit, she says, has received over 60 requests in the past two years alone to set up elections around the world and has been widely praised, including some praise, Daryn, from President Bush in his last state of the union address.
The U.S. ambassador to the U.N., John Bolton, criticized the timing of this, saying how could the U.N. do this with only a week to go to these critical Iraq elections? Daryn.
KAGAN: Well, and how might this firing affect that, Liz?
NEISLOSS: Well, that's a very good question. And it's something that Carina Perelli herself is concerned about. She thinks it could affect the credibility of the elections. She's not the only one to say so. I've spoken to diplomats who have also expressed that concern.
It's something that she talked to her staff about, she says, just last night, to make sure they're working so that this doesn't impact elections in any way. Her staff will go on working as they were planning to.
KAGAN: But no word on what the story is behind the story? I mean, a woman, any high-ranking woman, to be fired on sexual harassment, that's pretty unusual.
NEISLOSS: It's very unusual. The charges of sexual harassment were not necessarily directed specifically against her, but the description was of an office that had an environment of sexual harassment. It was a difficult office to work in.
And as Perelli herself will tell you, look, you know, many of us have been shot at doing our work, feared being taken hostage. These are not people who work in quiet 9:00 to 5:00 jobs. They are going into difficult places. So that is how she defends the type of environment that she has. But she says the charges of the U.N. are absolute fraud -- Daryn.
KAGAN: All right. Liz Neisloss, live at the U.N. Thank you.
Also being told that U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, John Bolton, will be a guest tonight on "LOU DOBBS" at 6:00 Eastern right here live on CNN.
We're moments away from Vice President Dick Cheney making a speech at Fort Drum in upstate New York, speaking about the war. And you'll see parts of that live right here on CNN.
Right now, a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) (WEATHER REPORT)
KAGAN: And it looks like now we're getting live pictures. There's Vice President and Mrs. Cheney arriving, getting a warm welcome from the military there. This is the second speech that Vice President Cheney will be giving on the war with Iraq, a different audience this time, however. Before he was talking to conservative groups. And this time, of course, a military group.
We do expect the vice president to be introduced by a number of people before he speaks. And President Bush will be speaking tomorrow. So we'll be hearing quite a bit from the administration over the next couple days on the war on Iraq, as they continue to try to fight declining numbers of support of Americans here and try to build support not only for the war cause, but also for the troops that are overseas.
All right, we're going to go ahead and wait here for the vice president. And while he does, we're going to take a quick break. When the vice president begins to speak, we will go back live to Fort Drum, New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: And we go live now to Fort Drum, New York. Vice President Dick Cheney getting ready to address these troops. This is the Army's 10th Mountain Division and the New York Army National Guard's 42nd Infantry Division. Let's listen.
RICHARD B. CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you all for that warm welcome this morning.
I'm delighted to be here today and to stand with the men and women of Fort Drum, New York, who when I visited here as secretary of defense, I said this was one of the outstanding military facilities we have any place in the world.
(APPLAUSE)
And now that I am here as vice president, I'll say it again. This is one of our finest military facilities and a tremendous credit to the United States.
(APPLAUSE)
Hard soldiers are trained here in the north country and Fort Drum is one reason the U.S. Army in the year 2005 is about the finest Army we've ever fielded.
I want to thank General Taluto, General Genero (ph), General Sullivan, General Terry (ph), Colonel Clark, Colonel Landry (ph), Sergeant Major Bora (ph), Sergeant Major Furnside (ph) and the outstanding 10th Mountain Division Band.
But above all, ladies and gentlemen, I want to thank the soldiers of two great American military units, the 10th Mountain Division and the 42nd Infantry Division.
(APPLAUSE)
Both of these divisions have an important place in life of our country and the history of our freedom.
In the four years since our nation was attacked, you've deployed on many fronts in the war on terror, whether the job is dragging mortar tubes through waist-deep snow 9,000 feet up in the foothills of the Himalayas of Afghanistan or conducting raids up staircases in urban Iraq.
You know how to take the fight to the enemy and to get the job done right.
I'm honored to be in your presence today. I bring you good wishes to each and every one of you from our commander in chief, President George W. Bush.
(APPLAUSE)
Let me also thank the good people of Watertown and the nearby communities. These patriotic citizens are a tremendous source of support to Fort Drum and I know you appreciate your north country neighbors.
Military service often requires a great deal of commitment and sacrifices by families. On behalf of the president and all Americans, I thank the family members who are with us here today and I want you to know that all Americans appreciate the sacrifices of our military families.
This morning we take special pride in recognizing those who have recently returned from duty in Iraq. We know your country asked you to carry out some difficult and some dangerous missions.
You went about that work with tremendous focus, skill -- regardless of the conditions. Your performance in combat, not just the progress you'd made but also the character you've shown, has left a lasting impression on people up and down the chain of command.
CHENEY: You've been taking on tough assignments, adapting to enemy tactics, pressing on and hanging tough. I want to thank you for a job well done and say on behalf of all Americans: Welcome home.
(APPLAUSE)
For many decades now the 10th Mountain Division has been known for producing some of our nation's finest soldiers. One of the greatest living Americans, Senator Bob Dole, served with the 10th Mountain in World War II and is a wounded combat veteran himself.
Members of his generation did their part to protect the American people, and I know they recognize the same courage and fighting spirit in the soldiers of today. Recently, I was told of two soldiers in the 10th Mountain, both of whom had leg amputations after being injured in Afghanistan and both of whom remain on active duty to this very day.
Their courage is an inspiration to every person who wears the nation's uniform and to every American.
Our country's deeply grateful to the 2nd Brigade Combat Team, which has completed a deployment at Camp Liberty. This unit was one of the first to train the national army of Afghanistan.
In Iraq, the 2nd brigade commandos have provided support for elections and before returning to the United States helped round up and detain some 600 terrorists around Baghdad.
We're also grateful to the historic group of soldiers that Douglas MacArthur called the Rainbow Division. The 42nd I.D. headed to Iraq and became the first Army National Guard division headquarters to deploy into combat since the Korean War.
They've conducted thousands of raids and search missions, killed and detained terrorists, helped train Iraqi forces, and provided security for the constitution referendum in October.
As General Taluto has pointed out, 42nd I.D. has maintained, supplied and supported one of the largest operational areas ever belonging to an Army division.
One unit of the 40 (ph) I.D., the fighting 69th from New York City, showed its toughness in confronting insurgents around Baghdad. Fighting the war on terror requires skilled, well-trained units of the National Guard. And the Rainbow Division as one of the best.
(APPLAUSE)
CHENEY: Each time I visit a military installation, I come away with renewed confidence in the men and women who wear the uniform of the United States. Each one of you has dedicated yourself to serving our country and its ideals. And you are meeting that commitment during a very challenging time in American history.
Our nation has counted on the Army for more than 230 years. And in this young century, soldiers of the United States are repaying that confidence every day as we fight the global war on terror.
When we were attacked on that terrible September morning four years ago, President Bush said that the struggle would be long and difficult and would require our best effort and unfailing resolve.
It is tough and it is dangerous to fight enemies who dwell in the shadows, who target the innocent, who plot destruction on a massive scale.
And in the fight some of the hardest duties have come to the men and women of the United States Army. After the attacks of 9/11, the 10th Mountain Division was among the first Army units in Afghanistan, meeting enemies in their own element, taking down the Taliban and preparing the way for the first democratic government in the 5,000-year history of that country.
Soon a large portion of the division will be returning to Afghanistan. Your presence there will help ensure peace and security in that country and serve as a reminder to friends and adversaries alike that when the United States of America makes a commitment, we keep our word.
(APPLAUSE)
Each and every one of you is a part of a team that continues to make history removing threats to America and other free nations, bringing new hope to a troubled region of the world. As a member of the armed forces, each of you defends this country and represents the best that is in it.
And by your achievement, you've made one thing very clear. The day you decided to join the armed forces of our country was a great day for the United States of America.
There is still difficult work ahead, because the terrorists regard Iraq as the central front in a war against the civilized world.
CHENEY: We're dealing with enemies that recognize no rule of warfare and accept no standard of morality. They have declared their intention to bring great harm to any nation that opposes their aims. Their prime targets are the United States and the American people. And so we have a responsibility to lead in this fight.
In the war on terror, we face a loose network of committed fanatics, found in many countries, operating under different commanders. Yet the branches of the network share the same basic ideology and the same dark vision for the world.
The terrorists want to end American and Western influence in the Middle East. Their goal in that region is to gain control of a country so they have a base from which to launch attacks and wage war against governments that do not meet their demands.
The terrorists believe that, by controlling an entire country, they will be able to target and overthrow other governments in the region and establish a radical Islamic empire that encompasses a region from Spain, across North Africa, through the Middle East and South Asia, all the way to Indonesia.
They have made clear as well their ultimate ambition: to arm themselves with weapons of mass destruction; to destroy Israel; to intimidate all Western countries; and to cause mass death here in the United States.
Some have suggested that by liberating Iraq from Saddam Hussein we simply stirred up a hornet's nest. They overlook a fundamental fact: We were not in Iraq on September 11th, 2001, and the terrorist hit us anyway.
The reality is that terrorists were at war with our country long before the liberation of Iraq and long before the attacks of 9/11. And for many years, they were the ones on the offensive. They grew bolder in their belief that if they killed enough Americans, they could change American policy.
In Beirut, in 1983, terrorists killed 241 of our servicemen. Thereafter, U.S. forces withdrew from there.
In Mogadishu, in 1993, terrorists killed 19 American soldiers. Thereafter, United States forces withdrew from Somalia.
Over time, the terrorists concluded that they could strike America without paying a price because they did, repeatedly. They bombed the World Trade Center in 1993; murders at the Saudi national guard training facility in Riyadh in 1995; the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia in 1996; simultaneous bombing of two of our embassies in East Africa in 1998; and the USS Cole in 2000.
Believing they could strike us with impunity and that they could change U.S. policy, they attacked us on 9/11 here in the homeland and killed 3,000 Americans.
Now they're making a stand in Iraq, testing our resolve, trying to intimidate the United States into abandoning our friends and permitting the overthrow of a new Middle Eastern democracy.
Recently we obtained a message from the number two man in Al Qaida, a man named Zawahiri, that was sent to his chief deputy in Iraq, the terrorist Zarqawi. The letter makes clear that Iraq is part of a larger plan of imposing Islamic radicalism across the broader Middle East, making Iraq a terrorist haven and a staging ground for attacks against other nations.
Zawahiri also expresses the view that America can be made to run once again.
I realize that some have advocated a sudden withdrawal of our forces from Iraq.
CHENEY: This would be unwise in the extreme. A victory for terrorists; bad for the Iraqi people and bad for the United States.
To leave that country before the job is done would be to hand Iraq over to car bombers and assassins. That nation would return to the rule of tyrants, become a massive source of instability in the Middle East, and be a staging area for ever-greater attacks against America and other civilized nations.
As some of you know, when I first ran for vice president five years ago, my Democratic opponent was a fine U.S. senator named Joe Lieberman. We disagreed on some issues, but we stand together on this war.
After visiting our troops in Iraq last month, Senator Lieberman said, quote, "Almost all of the progress in Iraq and throughout the Middle East will be lost if those forces are withdrawn faster than the Iraqi military is capable of securing the country."
He is entirely correct. On this both Republicans and Democrats should be able to agree. The only way that terrorists can win is if we lose our nerve and abandon our mission.
But the world can have confidence in the resolve of the United States. We will stand by our friends. We will help Iraqis build a nation that is free and secure and able to defend itself. We will confront our enemies on this and every other front in the war on terror. And with good allies at our side, we will prevail.
(APPLAUSE)
In Iraq, we are going forward with a comprehensive strategy for victory. On the political side, we're helping the Iraqis to build the institutions of a free and representative government. Every benchmark has been met successfully, starting with a turnover of sovereignty a year and a half ago, national elections last January, the drafting of a constitution last summer and its ratification by the Iraqi people in October.
Less than 10 days from now the election of a new government under that constitution will occur.
On the economic side, we're helping the Iraqis in the work of rebuilding and reforming their economy.
And on the security side, coalition and Iraqi goals are to clear, to hold and to build: clearing areas of terrorist control by taking the offensive, holding areas out of enemy control and building with targeted reconstruction to help Iraqis prepare for a better future.
CHENEY: In fact, at this very hour, the 1st Brigade of the 10th Mountain Division is in Iraq, carrying out the vital work of confronting terrorists and training Iraqi security forces to defend their country.
(APPLAUSE)
Thanks to the quality of our forces and the will of the Iraqi people to keep and defend their freedom, we have been making steady progress.
At this time last year, there were only a handful of Iraqi battalions ready for combat. Now there are more than 120 Iraqi army and police combat battalions in the fight against the terrorists.
About 80 of them are fighting side by side with coalition forces. And about 40 others are taking the lead in the fight, controlling their own area, conducting their own operations against terrorists.
Gradually Iraqi forces are taking control of more and more Iraqi territory. And as they undertake more and more missions on their own, confidence is growing within the country, and more and more intelligence is coming directly from the Iraqi people.
The mission of the United States and our coalition will continue to change as necessary, as it has from the beginning.
Going forward, we'll have fewer nationwide operations and more specialized operations against the terrorists. We will move out of Iraqi cities, reduce the number of bases and conduct fewer patrols and convoys.
As the Iraqi security forces gain strength and experience, and as the political process advances, we will be able to decrease American troop levels without losing our capacity to defeat the terrorists.
All Americans can be certain: Any decisions about troop levels will be driven by the conditions on the ground and the judgments of our commanders not by artificial timelines set by politicians in Washington, D.C.
(APPLAUSE)
Our strategy is clear, our tactics will remain flexible and we'll keep at this work until we finish the job.
CHENEY: The progress we've seen in Iraq has not come easily. But it has been steady and we can be confident going forward.
By voting in free elections, by ratifying a constitution, by stepping forward in larger and larger numbers to fight and die to secure their country and defeat the terrorists, by preparing for elections later this month, Iraqis have shown that they value their own liberty and are determined to choose their own destiny.
And by staying in this fight, we honor both the ideals and the security interests of the United States of America.
The victory of freedom in Iraq will inspire Democratic reformers in other lands.
In the broader Middle East and beyond, America will continue to encourage free markets, democracy and tolerance because these are the ideas and the aspirations that overcome violence and turn societies into pursuits of peace.
And, as the people of that region experience new hope, progress and control over their own destiny, we will see the power of freedom to change the world and a terrible threat will be removed from the lives of our children and our grandchildren.
(APPLAUSE)
Each one of you is helping to write a proud chapter in the history of freedom.
At times you may wonder if your fellow citizens truly realize the extent of your achievements, how hard you've worked, how urgent and dangerous your business can be, how it feels to go out on long shifts in unfamiliar places far from home.
I want you to know that Americans do realize it and we are very grateful. This is not a country that takes its military for granted.
We are a democracy, defended by volunteers who deserve all the tools and the support we can provide.
Americans appreciate our fellow citizens who go out on long deployments and endure the hardship of separation from home and family. We care about those who have returned with injuries and who face a hard road ahead. And our nation grieves for the brave men and women whose lives have ended in freedom's cause. No one can take away the sorrow that has come to the families of the fallen.
We can only say with complete certainty that these Americans served in a noble and a necessary cause. And their sacrifice has made our nation more secure.
CHENEY: We will honor their memory forever.
(APPLAUSE)
None of us can know every turn that lies ahead for America in the fight against terror. Yet the direction of events is plain to see. And this period of struggle and testing is also a time of promise.
The United States of America is a good country, a decent country, and we're making the world a better place by defending the innocent, confronting the violent and bringing freedom to the oppressed.
We understand the continuing dangers to civilization, and we have the resources, the strength and the moral courage to overcome those dangers and to lay the foundations for a better world.
You've met every challenge with focus and courage and great effectiveness and, above all, with honor.
Standing here today in the presence of U. S. Army combat veterans, I am reminded once again what a privilege it is to be a citizen of the United States of America.
(APPLAUSE)
You've brought credit to yourselves and to the nation. Your commander in chief and your fellow Americans are very proud of you. And it's my great honor to bring you that message today.
Never forget: Climb to glory. Thank you very much.
(APPLAUSE)
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