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CNN LARRY KING LIVE
Larry King Interviews Former Presidents Bush and Clinton. Larry King Interviews the Family and Friends of the Late Johnny Cash.
Aired December 7, 2005 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Tonight, former Presidents George Herbert Walker Bush and Bill Clinton with major news on their effort to help the Gulf Coast re-build from Hurricane Katrina, one of the worst natural disasters in U.S. history.
We'll also get their thoughts on Saddam Hussein's trial, too.
And then --
JOHNNY CASH, COUNTRY SINGER: Hello, I'm Johnny Cash.
-- an intimate look at an American legend: the late, great Johnny Cash, with his brother, Tommy Cash, his son, John Carter Cash, country star Carlene Carter, the daughter of Johnny's wife, June Carter Cash, and actress Jane Seymour, such a close friend, the Man in Black was godfather to her son. All next, on LARRY KING LIVE.
We welcome to LARRY KING LIVE two old friends, two great guests, President George Herbert Walker Bush, the 41st president of the United States -- he's on he left, in case you can't tell which is which, and Bill Clinton, the 42nd president of the United States.
And I know this wasn't planned, but your ties are almost identical, slight difference in color. The jackets are the same. The shirts are the same. Is this the former president's uniform, Mr. President Clinton?
BILL CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: No, I think your eyes are bad. He's got a red tie on and I've got an orange one on.
GEORGE H. W. BUSH, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: And I've got a gray suit and he's got a blue jacket. Get an eye check, Larry.
KING: I'm in --
CLINTON: We do dress the same normally but I went out of my way to wear this orange tie today so we wouldn't be ridiculed for dressing the same.
KING: But you are -- that is the color of Texas.
CLINTON: It is?
CLINTON: But you know, they're in the Rose Bowl and Arkansas is not, so it's Texas and Southern Cal so I'm just sort of showing solidarity with George, today.
KING: OK. They're here for a big announcement. They're at the University of New Orleans. We'll get to that in a minute. A couple of questions on Iraq. President Bush, what's your overall thinking as to how that's gone?
BUSH: My overall thinking is that I take my cue from the president. I like what he said down in Annapolis and I'll just stand with those remarks. And I don't get into these things, Larry, anymore, you know that. Nice try, though.
KING: President Clinton? You do get into them.
CLINTON: Yeah but I'm here to do this tsunami work. I'll say what I've said a thousand. Whether you were for it or against it or whatever your opinions of it are to date, every American ought to be pulling for this mission to succeed. And all you have to do is remember this terrible terrorist attack in Jordan that was launched from the Sunni section of Iraq to know that.
So we can talk about it another time. We're here working on this, but we should all want it to work and our people are doing the best they can with it.
BUSH: Larry, let me add, this is the anniversary of Pearl Harbor.
KING: Yep. Today.
BUSH: And I'm old enough to remember that and our country came together and did what it had to do. And I think the same thing -- it's a much smaller scale than World War II, but it's just as important that we succeed and that the Iraqis become free, democratic and on their way to greater happiness.
KING: OK. We'll discuss the big announcement today. Major grants from the Bush/Clinton Katrina Fund. How much, President Clinton?
CLINTON: We gave $30 million to all the institutions of higher education to pay for their faculty, if they're closed down, don't have any money coming in, to support students with special needs and to begin repair and reconstruction. We gave $40 million to the states, according to a formula that our experts devised, and we allocated $20 million to a faith-based committee, comprised of ministers and co- chaired by Reverend T.D. Jakes from Dallas and Bill Gray, who is from Louisiana, lives in Philadelphia now, but was the head of the United Negro College Fund and before that the chairman of the House Budget Committee.
So I think they'll do a really good job of dealing with these things, and we hope that it'll make a difference.
KING: President Bush, the money that came in, was it mostly large funds -- were there a lot of small givers?
BUSH: There were a lot of small givers. I can't give you the exact number -- a lot of small givers. But there were some very big ones, too. But the beautiful thing is that, when you get the small ones in, the message of concern and compassion was great. But I would salute the business community, and some foreign governments supported this operation. Ethiopia -- this is a country that's had a rough go -- I think they gave us what, $100,000.
BUSH: Absolutely amazing. And President Clinton was out in the tsunami area and I know Sri Lanka came in.
CLINTON: Sri Lanka, the government of Sri Lanka, with all of its problems, gave us a check. The government of Trinidad and Tobago gave us a check, and yet -- children running lemonade stands gave us a check. All told, we had more than 58,000 contributions to date. We hope we'll be getting some more, because there's more we'd like to do.
KING: You gentlemen are at the University of New Orleans, which as I understand, President Bush, is closed, right?
BUSH: Well, it's starting back up. In fact, I was told they cleaned up the building, just rushed to get it in shape after all the damage and the debris around. But when you look at the campus and then you see the students that came to a big meeting we had, you get a wonderful, upbeat feeling that they're going to bounce back. They're coming back. And it's true for all these other colleges. I was so impressed with the lead -- the presence of these colleges that came, some from Alabama, some from Mississippi, many from Louisiana, to come and be attending at this meeting where we were trying to help the colleges and we have. We've given them some pretty good money.
But it is -- you get a good feeling, Larry, that it's going to bounce back. The news is always the controversy. What's going on or why is this not happening, but I look at the bigger picture. What's the heartbeat of this place? And I think they're doing fine.
CLINTON: Larry, we -- I want to emphasize again, we helped 34 institutions, the community colleges, junior colleges, technical schools, as well as the universities. And I think the money will do a lot of good.
Now, three of the United Negro College Fund schools, Xavier, Dillard and Southern were really physically devastated, and it's going to take a lot more money to fix them. And we're working with the United Negro College Fund, with BET, with "Ebony" and "Jet" to try to generate broad-based financial support for their rebuilding, because there's no way in the world the federal funds can cover all of this. And as I said, if we get some more money into the Bush/Clinton Katrina Fund we'll give it out either through these avenues or others consistent with our criteria. We'll fully report it and people can know that the money will be well spent. So I hope at this holiday season, some more people will want to kick in a little bit.
KING: President Bush, how long does this fund -- do you want to add something? Go ahead.
BUSH: I was just going to say, part of the reason we haven't given out money before this is, we wanted to be guaranteeing the guy that gives $15, the guy that gives $1 million that it's going to be transparent as possible, that we're going to see that the money is accounted for and we've set up a wonderful organization with a help of a lot of pro bono experts and legal, and Mackenzie has helped on the game plan. And I am very satisfied that the money will be well-spent.
Now, you've got to be careful that somebody doesn't rip off something. But we've got Alexis Herman, a former secretary of Labor, working with Don Evans, the former secretary of Commerce, heading up a small board of directors of names you'd recognize, and they're determined to see the money is spent wisely and spent well.
But we want the local people to have as much control as possible over where the money goes.
KING: And you can still contribute at bushclintonkatrinafund -- all one word -- bushclintonkatrinafund.org.
In the area of priority, President Clinton, in the scheme of things -- we could talk about food, clothing, housing -- where is higher education?
CLINTON: Well, one of the things that we thought is, it was important to get these colleges up and going again and to give them some emergency help so that those that had to close could actually pay their faculty so they wouldn't lose them.
Higher education, I think, is very important because it's key to the rebuilding of these whole areas. If you want to build a vibrant and diversified economy, you can't have the higher education system of Louisiana and Mississippi -- they were hurt the worst -- and to a lesser extent, Alabama, you can't have them wiped out. You've got to be able to rebuild them and these people have to be able to start again.
I met -- George and I met several young students today who were studying everything from political science and computer technology to engineering. They're important to the future of this area, and we've got to keep these institutions going.
KING: President Bush --
CLINTON: And it's one place where we know we can put people back to work in a hurry. Keep in mind you've still got a couple hundred thousand people plus out of work here, and this is one place where we can put people back to work doing something we know is productive and important.
KING: Do you ever worry, President Bush, about charity fatigue?
BUSH: No. I was asked this question, as was President Clinton, a little while ago. You worry a little bit about it, but I don't think it's going to happen. And I think if we do our job properly, if you and others in the media don't lose interest or don't lose touch with the recovery, I don't worry about it because the American people have an extraordinarily big, generous attitude on these things. And we found in the tsunami -- we're still getting money in there and we haven't been out soliciting it, necessarily. And I think it's just very important we don't get donor fatigue.
And a lot of people are saying, well why don't you do something for the Red Cross, why don't you do something for this or that? Well, we believe that this is so important. We have a niche here and we want to see it succeed. And I don't think donor fatigue is going to set in, Larry. I really don't.
CLINTON: Also, Larry. Keep in mind we are now in the recovery phase of this whole long process. The Red Cross and all these people came in and helped people who were desperately in need. But now we're going to be building houses, starting businesses, recovering -- I hope, recovering the wetlands. And I think that one thing that will reduce donor fatigue dramatically is if they see things happening that are exciting.
The president has appointed a very good man to -- Don Pound (ph) -- to head up the reconstruction effort. He's a really good man and I think he'll do fine. And there are distinguished committees at the state and local level here. You've had people offer to spend great amounts of money to try to redesign the school system here, to redesign the healthcare system. There's a lot of interest in making New Orleans America's first green city.
So I think if people see there are exciting things happening here, they'll want to be a part of it, and we'll be able to step in and fill the gaps of the places where you won't be able to get either the government or private investment capital to move.
KING: We're going to spend some more moments with our two former presidents, and we'll be right back after these words.
KING: We're back with former Presidents George Herbert Walker Bush and Bill Clinton. They are at the campus of the University of New Orleans.
What can you tell us, President Bush, about what you see in the city? What does New Orleans look like?
BUSH: Downtown New Orleans -- I haven't been there so much, but just from what I understand, is coming back real fast. Just driving in from the Lakefront Airport to the University of New Orleans, though, you look off to the left side of the road and you see a lot of devastation, a lot of broken homes, a lot of trees down. So there's still a lot to be done in New Orleans itself, and then when you get outside of New Orleans, as I was a few days ago, there's tons of work. But the thing is that impressed me today, Larry, we met with a -- we were in an auditorium with a lot of kids from this university and other schools, and there's a determination.
You just get the feeling the city is coming back. I get so tired when I hear somebody say, oh, do you think it's worth rebuilding New Orleans, or will New Orleans ever come back? Look, it was here for hundreds of years, you might say, and this is the most devastating storm, but that doesn't mean there's going to be another one tomorrow.
It means we've got to fight back, recover it, be sure to have it in shape that it won't happen again. But New Orleans, you don't wipe out the heartbeat of a city like New Orleans by a tragedy, no matter how great.
KING: President Clinton --
CLINTON: I agree with that --
KING: There are those, President Clinton, who thought that it wasn't worth it, that the expenditure wasn't worth it because of the dangers of where that city lies geographically.
CLINTON: Yeah, but they're wrong about that. We -- when we rebuilt the middle of the country after that 500-year flood in my term, there were some small communities we had to completely relocate. The analog here would be if we had to take the Lower Ninth Ward -- and the people who analyze the facts said, You need to build housing for those folks someplace else.
But the city as a whole, the idea that we can only get back to 30 or 40 percent of what it was, is ridiculous. And these wetlands can be recovered for a fairly modest amount of money -- $14, 15 billion, you can recover 30 years of wetland, and that might be worth more than $100 billion in levee expenditures. So we can do this. This is one of our most important cities. This is an important part of America's character.
And I just don't believe that we should say, oh, we're only going to be at 40 percent of the size. That's just ridiculous. Look at the port, look at the tourism facilities, look at all the things we can do.
We just have to have patience and a good plan, and we've got to execute and give people something to do.
Everyone's sitting around talking about how it's not going to happen -- they're not doing anything. When you're doing stuff, you don't have time to talk about what's not going to happen. And we need to get -- that's why President Bush and I tried to get this money out here. We know that once people start doing things, then they'll think of something else to do and something else to do, and more people will come in and help. And before you know it, you'll hear all the nay- sayers talking about something else. BUSH: Larry, if I can add -- I don't want to interrupt you, but can I add one word on this?
KING: Sure. Sure.
BUSH: It's about New Orleans but it's about a lot more than that, too. You've got Mississippi, Alabama. I was in Cameron, Louisiana -- little Gulf -- little town down on the Gulf Coast -- and there wasn't one single house -- a town of 3,000 or 2,000 -- not one house standing. What was standing was the courthouse built by the WPA.
But what got me there was not, Oh, the government is going to do this or this or this group is going to do that or the Red Cross -- it was the spirit of the people there. They said, We want you to come back and be marshal of the recovery -- of the renewed Cameron in five years and you're going to see a brand new city with a heartbeat. And that's the spirit of a lot of these people and that's why it's going to happen.
KING: How are the two of you -- how are the two of you doing, President Clinton?
First of all, let me ask President Bush, when I was with President Bush in June in Kennebunkport, we did a show on our anniversary -- Bill Clinton was on that same week. We did a show from President Bush and Barbara's house in Kennebunkport, and that was a couple weeks before President Clinton was coming to spend the weekend. How did that go, President Bush?
BUSH: As far as I'm concerned, it was all right. I mean, we gave him a good time -- and went out and lost to him in golf and did a lot of fun things. But you know, Larry, people wonder, they say, How can two political enemies -- we're not enemies. I ran against him, but before all that he headed up the Democratic side of the governor's meeting on education. We had a Governor's Conference on Education. We really first (ph) and it was wonderful.
And so we were friends then. We get some elbows going when we run against each other, but then after that, I don't have any animosity in my heart, so it's very easy and very compatible. Guy fit right in, right into the family.
KING: How did the weekend go for you, President --
BUSH: That doesn't mean these differences aren't going to be up there, and as the election comes up, they might be worse. But that's unimportant, compared to what we're doing.
CLINTON: Well, I had a wonderful time, Larry. He took me out on his speedboat and nearly killed me, he was driving so fast -- I just loved it. And then we played golf at that wonderful old golf club there in Kennebunkport. And I must tell you, after I spent the weekend there, I wondered why he ever left.
And you ask me -- How could I not have a good time. First of all, as he said, we've been friends for more than 20 years. We worked on things together. And secondly, you know, President Bush has been in public service now for more than 60 years, and he could be hanging around up in Kennebunkport and he still thinks that his primary job is to serve the public. So for me it's just an honor. We're having a delightful time. I only wish we could do more and I hope we can do more here.
KING: One other thing in the news before I ask about your health and we'll let you go. President Bush, any thoughts on the trial of Saddam Hussein? This is not about Iraq now, but can he get a fair trial?
BUSH: Put it this way -- I'm not on Ramsey Clark's side.
KING: Another Texan.
BUSH: Yeah. Hate to take a courageous position like that, but I will. And I wish the judge would control the proceedings a little bit. But he's entitled to a fair trial. It's far better than he did for the people that were murdered under his regime.
So we've got to put up with this; the world has to look at it and just be sure that it comes to a fair conclusion, that he gets his fair day in court, which he appears to be getting.
CLINTON: I think, Larry, on that -- you know, now a lot of people are saying, Well, he should have been tried at the International Court in The Hague. But if you think about it, it was very important to a lot of Iraqis who lived through those years -- and those terribly difficult years in the '80s and then again he had one big splurge in the early '90s when he went after the Marsh Arabs in the southeast -- that they be a part of the justice process.
Now, we're vulnerable to being criticized because we're there while this is going on, but I think in general, you know, in America we believe that when there is a criminal trial of any kind, it should be -- it should occur in the venue that the crime occurred if at all possible.
And so my view is that he can get a fair trial. They ought to bend over backwards to give it to him and make sure that the facts are subject to cross examination and open. Lord knows there's going to be a lot of publicity about it, so I think that's about all you can do. I think on balance -- I understand why the people of Iraq think the trial should have been there.
KING: All right. A couple of other quick things. How's your health, President Bush?
BUSH: Good. For an 81-year-old guy going on 82. Remember when you're a kid, I'm 10. I'm 10 1/2 going on 11. Well I'm 81 1/2 going on 82 and I feel like a spring colt.
KING: You just won a pro-celebrity tennis match.
BUSH: Yeah that was -- I made an ass out of myself there, but don't bring that up, please.
KING: President Clinton, your health?
CLINTON: As far as I know I'm fine. I'm working --
BUSH: He's doing good. He's killing himself, Larry. The guy's all over the field like the Energizer Bunny. I'm telling you, he's moving too much. I do worry about that.
KING: What are you doing for Christmas?
CLINTON: I work on it. I work on my health. I work out. And I think for me it -- I think it keeps you young to be, doing these kinds of things and it seems to me that the longer you live, the more your obligations to the future grow. So I'm just trying to do what I think I should do, and it's what makes me happy.
KING: What are you doing for Christmas, President Bush?
CLINTON: Keeps me out from underneath Hillary's feet, too.
KING: President Bush -- Christmas?
BUSH: Well, we're all -- I don't mean to be a place-dropper on you, but all my kids, my five children, my -- their wives, 17 grandkids will be at Camp David.
KING: On Christmas Day and Christmas Eve?
BUSH: We have a couple of days before, and then Christmas, and then we go back to Texas the next day.
CLINTON: And I'll be home in New York. I'm already working on Christmas. We took the tree out and I'm the Christmas fanatic in our family. And Chelsea always comes up, and we finish decorating the tree. We've done it together as a family forever, and so we hold off on finishing the decorations till she can come up from her job in the city. And we'll do our tree together and have a wonderful family Christmas.
KING: Happy Holidays to both of you. It's always great to see you looking so fit and well. And congratulations on you work and continued work. And if you want to help the bushclintonkatrinafund, one word, .org, that will give you all the information.
Thank you, President Bush and Clinton for being with us tonight.
CLINTON: Thanks, Larry.
BUSH: Happy Holidays to you, Larry.
CLINTON: Happy Holidays. KING: Thank you, guys.
When we come back, a look back at the life and times of Johnny Cash. Don't go away.
KING: In September of 2003, a good friend of this program, an amazing country legend, Johnny Cash, passed away, leaving behind a legacy of love and music that goes on stronger than ever. With the release of his and June Carter Cash's love story in a major movie this week, the 2005 CD entitled "The Legend of Johnny Cash" is number 18 on "Billboard" magazine. "Walk the Line" is a great movie that I've seen twice. There's the cover of the CD.
Let's meet our guests. Here in los angeles, Tommy Cash, Johnny's brother, who released a CD earlier this year titled, "A Musical Tribute to My Brother, Johnny Cash. In L.A., John Carter Cash, the only child of Johnny Cash and June Carter Cash, the co-executive producer of "Walk the Line: The Johnny and June Love Story." In Nashville is Carlene Carter, the daughter of June Carter Cash from her earlier marriage. Johnny used to call her "Sparkle" -- a country singer in her own right, has recorded 11 CDs. Maybe the surprise guest is Jane Seymour, TV and movie star, who was a very close friend of Johnny and June, and whose husband, James Keach, is producer of "Walk the Line."
How, Jane, did you get involved with the Cashes?
JANE SEYMOUR, ACTRESS: The first time I met them, John came to perform as Kid Cole on "Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman." James Keach, my husband, directed him in this. And then of course they had sucha good time, that they insisted they come back and June and John did three episodes of "Dr. Quinn." We developed an amazing relationship together. And John said, You knw, a lot of people want to do my story, but I don't trust any Hollywood types. He trusted James Keach and he said, James, I want you to make this happen; I want you to tell my story.
And James did an amazing thing. He said, John, you know what? This story is not actually about your music. This store is the about demons you had to fight. It's -- the beginning the movie is about how tough and how hard your life was, and the end of the story is this amazing love and the retribution.
KING: Was it hard, John, to deal with the warts-and-all aspect of your father?
JOHN CARTER CASH, ONLY CHILD OF JOHNNY AND JUNE CARTER CASH: I've seen uglier warts maybe than were even on the film. I don't know, but my dad, my dad was a wonderful, beautiful person on the inside. And the movie gives an honest portrayal, truly, of who my parents were in their love affair, how they came together, their strength together. The beauty of their love together comes out strong in the film.
KING: Boy, does it.
J. CASH: I firmly believe that they're up there right now smiling down.
KING: And they died short span of each other, right?
J. CASH: Yes, they did. When my mother passed on, it was as if a part of my dad, the one -- only half of him that was there anymore.
KING: We'll talk with Tommy and Carlene after the break. Include your calls later as we look at the life and times of a great artist, Johnny Cash. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: How has the marriage worked so well?
JOHNNY CASH, DECEASED PERFORMER: With June Carter?
J. CASH: Twenty-eight years, separate bathrooms.
KING: That's one key. What's another?
J. CASH: Give the lady her space. Respect her for what she does, for what she is, if she's doing nothing but taking care of the house and the kids, make her know how important that is to you.
And bend over backwards if, both of you have to bend over backwards, too. If not necessarily to compromise yourself and what you are and what you do, but to honor the other. (SINGING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Tommy Cash, what was it like to be Johnny's brother?
TOMMY CASH, JOHNNY CASH'S BROTHER: Well, you know, it's a wonderful experience. I've always been proud of him.
KING: But you're a singer, too.
T. CASH: Yes, I'm a singer too.
KING: Envy at all?
T. CASH: No envy at all. I let people worry about that for me. I never bothered myself with that. I missed him terribly. He was a wonderful brother, had a great heart, as John Carter said. It's a wonderful experience being the brother of someone like him.
KING: You had a brother die, right? T. CASH: Yes, we did.
KING: And you're not portrayed in the movie?
T. CASH: I'm in the movie twice. As a little boy, about 10 or 12-years-old.
KING: That's right. Did you like the film?
T. CASH: I thought the film was absolutely wonderful. The acting is A-plus. The story is fabulous. There's only one thing that I would have done a little different in the movie and that's the way our father Ray Cash was treated.
I do not believe he was an angry man or a bitter man. And the movie sort of portrayed him that way. I've given it a lot of thought over the last few weeks that he and John must have had some issues that I never knew about. But other than that...
KING: ... there's some sensitivity at the end, though.
T. CASH: There's is great sensitivity at the end. And overall, I think it's a wonderful movie.
KING: Carlene, how well was your mother portrayed?
CARLENE CARTER, JOHNNY CASH'S STEP-DAUGHTER: Oh, I thought that Reese did a wonderful job. Mama was so full of life and such an entertainer. And Reese really captured all that. And I love the fact that she did the singing and she could dance like mama pretty good.
KING: Were you involved in the film at all, Carlene?
C. CARTER: No, I spent one afternoon with my brother John and Reese. And we had a nice afternoon together. And I told her about the trick to all of mama's costuming was her pantaloons.
T. CASH: Didn't you give her some of her pantaloons?
C. CARTER: Yes, we did.
J. CASH: So underneath it all was June Carter's pantaloons.
KING: What did you think, John, about the way your father was portrayed, the job he did?
J. CASH: Joaquin, his spirit captured my father's darkness.
KING: He doesn't have your voice, but close.
J. CASH: Captured his life, and he came as close, as I believe anybody that I have ever heard sounding -- I hate to say like my father, because you can't impersonate Johnny Cash.
If you try to impersonate his voice, lots of people end up sounding like a bad impersonation of Mr. Ed or something. He took it on as an actor, as a performer. And that's what my father wanted. You know, he didn't want the actor to be lip syncing to his voice. He wanted the actor to sing it.
KING: What was Johnny like as a friend?
SEYMOUR: Oh, he was absolutely amazing. Both of them were. And he's godfather to our children. And he was funny. And he was a bit of a flirt, too actually. Johnny was.
KING: With you?
J. CASH: Not with her.
SEYMOUR: No. No, you know, we had this amazing friendship as really two couples that really were in sync with one another. You know, we'd all been through different marriages, people had to deal with kids and stuff.
There was just a bond between James and I and John and June and you know, June and I used to just have hysterical fits of giggles. In fact, one time I remember, oh I was just saying earlier, about how just before she died, James and I were staying at the house. John was in intensive care at the hospital. And June wasn't feeling too good. So she said, why don't you put on your p.j.'s and come upstairs and we'll all sit and lie in our bed and we'll watch "Chicago." And Carlene was there, too.
C. CARTER: Yes.
SEYMOUR: You remember that?
C. CARTER: Yes.
SEYMOUR: And we were all there, and I never forgot this, June looked around the room and said, "Jane, I want to you have something of mine." And I said, "June, I have everything I could ever want from you." And she said, "What's that, honey?" And I said, "I have your love. What more could I possibly want?" And that's -- you know.
KING: Let me get a break. We'll be right back with more. You have any questions? We'll take some calls, too. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J. CASH: (SINGING) Drug addiction? I won't blame this on drug addition at all. And people say, "well, it wore that body out." Well maybe I did, but it to a good purpose. They should be thankful that I wore it to the purpose I wore it. And that was writing and recording and touring and doing concerts. Everywhere I could possibly do them that I thought I might enjoy them, that I thought the people might enjoy me. (SINGING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Tommy Cash, how did the family deal with the drug aspect of Johnny?
T. CASH: Well, it scared us all to death. We were afraid he was going to die. Thank god he didn't. My parents were in constant fear that something bad would happen to him. But we all prayed for him. We're a strong family, you know. We don't see each other every day or every week. But we are strong. Our family loves each other and we all get together and we pray. And we prayed for John throughout the 1960s, that he would overcome this. And thank god he did.
KING: Carlene, how did your mother deal with it?
C. CARTER: She -- when he wasn't acting right back in those days, I remember I was a little girl and she'd send him on his merry way. She really gave a lot, gave it a lot to God. You know, she gave him up into prayer. And she would be on her knees praying for him. And God heard.
KING: How did you deal with it, John?
J. CASH: Well, to me, no matter how dark it may have gotten before I came along or after I was there, the resounding light was the strength, the beauty, rising above, faith in God for my dad. And, you know, through the pain came great wisdom and great strength. You know, through the struggle and adversary, he found the peace.
KING: Comes through in the movie, too.
J. CASH: Yes, it comes through greatly in the movie.
KING: What was his appeal, Jane?
SEYMOUR: John's appeal? I think he appealed to every man. I think...
KING: ... certainly an unusual voice. There was something else.
SEYMOUR: It's way more than that. I think that's what's so powerful about this movie. That I did Jim Mangold did a great job directing. What really comes across is that he's a real man that you can really connect with. He's a man who had demons, he's a man who had faults, he's a man who was looking for forgiveness and wanted to forgive.
He's a man who found love in June, he was a man who found spirit and a comradeship in every man. And I think what he wanted to do with this movie and I think why this is such an incredible legacy that has been made here is that people who are out there who are suffering right now from drug addiction, or people who know people who suffer from drugs, or people who have a lot of pain or a lot of demons that they want to overcome -- realize that through this movie, that realize that they too can find peace of mind and hope and love and spirit.
J. CASH: He could expose himself to the world, you know, and still never lose his dignity.
KING: Didn't you ever get angry at him, Tommy? T. CASH: A few times. But John had a gift, he had a gift of love and when he walked into a room, you could feel his presence. And I knew when I was very young that he was going to be something great. My mother said when he was 5-years-old, she knew he had this gift.
KING: And he was always a believer?
T. CASH: He was.
KING: So even during the darkest days?
T. CASH: Well, my family, my mother and father were wonderful Christians. I think he learned from them. And Johnny was a Bible student. He studied the Bible.
J. CASH: Had a doctorate in it.
T. CASH: He was one of the most knowledgeable people about books, including the Bible that I ever knew.
KING: We'll be right back with more, but let's check in with now with my man Anderson Cooper who will host "A.C. 360" at the top of the hour. What's online tonight, Anderson?
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Larry, a lot going on. A story we all have our eye on tonight. The terror scare in Miami, the man who was killed by an air marshal. We have teams heading to his home. Who is he exactly, and did his bipolar disorder somehow lead to his death? We're going to take a look at how law enforcement trains to deal with people with mental disorders, also in hostile situations.
Also we're taking a look at a story that is sure to strike a chord just about anyone with a boss. The question is, how much control should your employer have over you when you're not at work? One man, a boss and his company are taking it to extremes, firing people for smoking in their homes when they're not even on the company clock. It's got a lot of people talking. We'll look at that 10:00 tonight, Larry.
KING: Thanks Anderson. That might have to do with health insurance, right?
COOPER: Health insurance and, yes, he doesn't want to pay the bills so he doesn't want people smoking.
KING: Anderson Cooper, "A.C. 360" at the top of the hour.
By the way, tomorrow night Eric Menendez will be with us, a special guest. And on Friday night, Marlo Thomas. And we'll be back with more on the Cash's. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J. CASH: (SINGING) My mother always told me that God had his hand on me. And I never once asked her, "what do you mean by that?" I just took it that that was something my mother had believed, you know? And I believe that -- yes, I believe that there's a purpose, but I don't know what it is. Except to seek the will of God in my life and go about it every day as if I believe what I'm doing is right. (SINGING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Here are two C.D.'s we're recommending with regard to this, "The Legend of Johnny Cash" from Universal Records, we're showing you from that. And "Cash: The Legend" from Sony Records.
And of course Tommy's got his album out, released earlier this year, "A Musical Tribute to my Brother, Johnny Cash."
Now Carlene, tell me about the final song on the final C.D. of "Cash: The Legend." "It Takes One to Know Me," you wrote it, right?
C. CARTER: Yes, I wrote that song one year when I was poor and I didn't have enough money to give John a Christmas present -- no, it was a birthday present. And I wrote this song and he kept saying he was going to record it. Well, I didn't really know that until like last year when my brother John called me and said, we found these masters of mom and John -- or Mom and Daddy -- singing "It Takes One to Know Me," and do you want to put your voice on it.
So after they'd been gone for a while, I got to sing with them. Again. So it's pretty cool, yes.
KING: How did you feel about how your father chased your mother, John? [ laughter ]
J. CASH: I understand that. My wife would agree. You could not stop him once he got his sights on something, no matter what it was. Fish, fowl or the love of his life.
KING: He was a determined --
J. CASH: He was very determined, you know. And in spite of himself and his own eccentricities and addictions and what-not, Mom kept loving him through it all. It was his love that was the light of their lives.
KING: Calgary, Alberta. Hello.
CALLER: Hi, Larry. Good topic. Got a question for the panel here. Nine Inch Nails put out a song called Hurt. Towards the end of Johnny's life he also sang that song. And the video seemed quite different from the movie. And it almost seemed more tragic, his video. I'm just wondering if he did die a broken man?
J. CASH: No. No, he did not die a broken man. He died sad and --
KING: Sad, why? J. CASH: He missed his wife. He missed his soul mate. And he died still wanting to work, though. Still wanting to play music. It was like his body gave up, but his spirit didn't.
Now, the "Hurt" video, it has a lot of elements in it that are very true. You know, he did struggle with pains and he did hurt himself through his life. But I'd say he never -- he was like Job, and the people that know The Bible understand that. He never lost his faith.
KING: Did he ask to be godfather?
SEYMOUR: Yes, he did. And I loved those little kids. We have the most beautiful video of the two of them together. Actually, very poignant piece of little Johnny Keach, who refers to himself now as the little man in black, hugging Johnny Cash while Johnny Cash was singing "Hurt," and hanging on to him.
KING: Tommy, why black?
T. BLACK: You know, there's lots of stories about that. He wrote a song about it. I think John wrote a song about it called "The Man in Black." he was for the underdog. And he wanted to look thin. And I think there were many reasons he wore black.
J. CASH: Didn't show dirt.
T. CASH: That's right. He told me one time I wear black because it don't show dirt and makes me look thin.
KING: He always wore black, though, right?
T. CASH: Well, he did. All through his career.
J. CASH: I seen him in chartreuse and purple.
T. CASH: He wore everything.
SEYMOUR: I bought him a blue shirt. You remember? He kept making me buy a blue shirt. He took it off James' back one day. He said, "I like that shirt."
T. CASH: I gave him a blue denim shirt with all the song titles that had ever been a hit by him. And he wore that shirt for several days. Every time I came over, he'd have it on.
J. CASH: It started smelling after a while, but he still wore it.
KING: We'll be back with more on Johnny Cash. The movie, "I Walk the Line" is terrific. Don't go away.
KING: Jane Seymour said during the break, you feel his presence. SEYMOUR: I do. I feel him all the time. And June. And I feel them smiling down on us. We used to all hang out together in Hendersonville.
KING: Because of the power of him?
SEYMOUR: Yes, they were just full of love. And they loved nothing more than their family. And for everyone to get along and for everyone to, you know --
KING: Tommy, you said he was working on an album when he died?
T. CASH: Yes, he was. He never stopped creating, Larry. I have the house for sale back in Nashville. Every time I show that house, I can feel his presence and June's too.
J. CASH: He left little pieces of himself with everybody he met. He really did.
KING: You think of him a lot Carlene?
CARTER: I think of him every single day. I got pictures everywhere. But I miss them. But I do feel like they're with me all the time. They're like guardian angels.
KING: Was he a good step-father?
CARTER: He was the best. He was such a good daddy to Rosie and I when we were little girls. We used to ski all over that old hickory lake there in Nashville. He'd pull us for hours on end behind while we were skiing.
It was a lot of fun. He always made me laugh so much. I learned a lot from him. And I miss him a lot. And I miss my ma.
KING: And he picked the stars, right?
J. CASH: Yes, he did. He loved Joaquin Phoenix. He saw him in "Gladiator" and just fell in love with him as an actor. And also, you know, picked Reese Witherspoon.
KING: Who never sang in her life.
J. CASH: No. Neither of them ever sang.
KING: Neither of them ever sang and they sang everything.
SEYMOUR: And the script was written by Gil Dennis, the original writer continued to write right with Jim Angles, to the end was actually read out loud to them. So they read, they heard the final script.
J. CASH: My parents had a great love for James Keach, her husband.
T. CASH: Yes, they did. J. CASH: And handed their heart and spirit over to James.
KING: Do yourself a treat, if you haven't seen it see "Walk the Line." You won't forget it as we will never forget Johnny Cash.
We thank Tommy Cash, John Carter Cash, Carlene Carter and Jane Seymour for being our special guests tonight.
Tomorrow night, Eric Menendez, an exclusive interview from prison, where he will spend his life. Friday night, Marlo Thomas, and we'll talk about the incredible hospital her father founded in Memphis, St. Jude.
Right now, speaking of incredible, we turn it over to the one and only, Anderson Cooper. You may have seen his name out and about. He's the host of PC 360. Carry on.
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