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The Situation Room
NTSB Begins Investigation of Plane Crash in Chicago; Some L.A. Officials Fear Violence if Stanley Williams Is Executed
Aired December 09, 2005 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: To our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by, CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you the day's top stories, happening now.
A still disturbing scene in Chicago -- plane wreckage in the street a day after a deadly crash. It's 6:00 p.m. at Midway Airport, where federal officials are asking tough questions about this accident, and runway safety for all of us.
Also this hour, first she was outed, now Valerie Plame-Wilson is out. It's 7:00 p.m. here in Washington, where the woman at the center of the CIA leak saga called it quits.
Shaquille O'Neal plays on a new court. It's 7:00 p.m. in Miami, where the basketball star has become an extremely long arm of the law.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Heart-wrenching new details tonight about a 6-year-old boy's last moments before a plane came crashing into his family's car in Chicago. Joshua Woods was eating a meal from McDonald's and singing "Santa Claus is Coming to Town". An instant later, he was dead. Now investigators are trying to figure out why the plane skidded off the runway at Midway Airport last night and into a snowy street.
Our Brian Todd joining us from the crash scene in Chicago. Brian?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, we're now about 24 hours after this incident occurred here in Chicago and we are getting some critical new information about conditions onboard the plane and on the ground as the plane approached last night.
First, we'll show you a close-up of the plane. Our cameraman Bruce Fine (ph), will zero in on the plane. You can see the nosecone still touching the street. That is the corner of 55th Street and Central Avenue -- vehicles still coming in and out for the investigation. These are -- the plane still covered in snow. They'll move the plane probably tomorrow or on Sunday.
Back to the conditions in the plane. During the NTSB briefing just a short time ago, the investigator was asked what the conditions were, what they monitored on the cockpit voice recorder the data they found and what the conversations were in the cockpit as the plane approached the runway. Here's what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELLEN ENGLEMAN CONNERS, NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD.: The airplane had been in a normal hold position. The approach was normal with normal conversations. The crew did not mention problems with the airplane. The tower provided that the wind was 090 degrees at 9 knots.
The airplane was landing on Runway 31 Center. Air traffic control reported runway braking to be fair on most of the runway and poor at the end.
Flight data recording information was, as our folks said, pristine and excellent. Touchdown was normal. There was a slight bounce. It was a seven to eight-knot tailwind. There was 32 seconds from touchdown until the aircraft hit the fence. The FDR indicates that touchdown was at air speed of about 124 knots. That translates to approximately 143 miles per hour. But the ground speed was about 132 knots, or 152 miles per hour.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TODD: Now, what about conditions inside the cabin? What about conditions inside the cabin? We got a chance a short time ago to ask a passenger aboard the plane what they were going through as the plane skidded to a stop. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE ABATE, SOUTHWEST PASSENGER: The oh, my God moment was the big, huge bump. You know? At this point, you don't know where you're at. But it was a quick, oh my god. It was one of those things and then we stopped in three to five seconds after that. And then you look out the window and realize you're in the middle of a city street.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TODD: We have some new pictures and information, also, regarding the 6-year-old boy who was killed, identified as Joshua Woods, six years old from LeRoy, Indiana. Pictures of the home he lived in, in that town. Joshua had two younger siblings and the parents in the car with him at the time this accident occurred.
Two out of those four people are now in serious condition. One of the siblings was a young boy, an infant. So, we're just getting that information.
And Wolf, they're going to be looking at all sorts of conditions on the ground -- visibility, heavy snow going on; the length of the runway is a factor here, 6,500 feet, one of the shortest in the United States. It also has no overrun protection for planes skidding off a runway. That's another condition that they're looking at.
Also, the condition of the runway itself. Officials say it was salted all day and being cleared all day, but one witness on the plane said that they could not tell the difference between the runway and the grass. The runway looked like it had snow covering it. All sorts of factors the NTSB is looking at right now.
BLITZER: Brian Todd, on the scene for us in Chicago. Brian, thank you very much.
We watched that National Transportation Safety Board briefing here in THE SITUATION ROOM earlier today. And moments later, I spoke with the former managing director of NTSB.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Why would it be at the end the conditions were worse than at the beginning part of the runway?
PETER GOELZ, FORMER MANAGING DIRECTOR, NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD: Well, it could have been -- it could be a simple thing -- a simple thing as the planes that had landed before that had landed closer to the 6,000-foot level marker and just gotten off the runway before the last 2,000 feet.
BLITZER: So, it might have been more snowy or more icy at...
GOELZ: That's right.
BLITZER: Well, wouldn't they send trucks out there to salt it ...
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: ... in a condition like this?
GOELZ: Well,that's one of the things they're going to look at. Should - should they have been paying more attention? If they had reports from previous planes saying, listen, the last third or quarter of the runway is poor, maybe they should have got some people out there sooner.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: We'll keep you up-to-date on this crash investigation as it unfolds right here in THE SITUATION ROOM. And later this hour, we'll speak with a passenger who was aboard that flight and get his eyewitness account of what he experienced.
We'll move on now to the political battle here in Washington over Iraq. President Bush once again is warning against pulling troops out of Iraq too quickly. He pressed his case in a fundraiser for a Republican Senate candidate in Minnesota.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's a debate raging in Washington, D.C. There are some who are arguing for a fixed timetable of withdrawal. I think it's a wrong policy, and so does Mark Kennedy. A fixed timetable of withdrawal would embolden the enemy, would confuse the Iraqis, and would send the wrong signal to our young men and women in uniform.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: The president's party is taking a much harsher line against opponents who disagree with the White House on Iraq. A new Republican Web ad pulls no punches about some big-name Democrats.
Let's bring in senior political correspondent Candy Crowley. Candy.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it was a week of at least, inartful statements by Democrats, all of which Republicans thought worth repeating in a tough new ad circulating through cyberspace.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY (voice over): It is a fire breathing ad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The idea that we're going to win this war is an idea that unfortunately is just plain wrong.
CROWLEY: White flags waved. Democrats speak. Republicans send the silent hard ball message. Our country is at war. Our soldiers are watching and our enemies are, too.
KEN MEHLMAN, CHAIRMAN, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL C0MMITTEE.: It;s letting the American people hear that the chairman of the Democrat Party says we're likely to lose a war; that the nominee from 2004 said American troops are terrorizing Iraqi children and families.
CROWLEY: It is aimed at the 15 million or so Republican activists that get the party email. It is aimed at exploiting a week's worth of stories about Democrats divided by the war. It is, says the Senate Democratic leader, a White House in eternal campaign mode.
SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MINORITY LEADER: The president should be the commander in chief, not the campaigner in chief. This is not the time for Karl Rove.
CROWLEY: Reid has spent the week inside the tug of war, somewhere between Senator Joe Lieberman, the president's most supportive Democrat, and Party Chairman Howard Dean, who thinks the war not winnable. A lot of Democrats wish Dean would shut up. Reid is too polite to say that, but he did mention a chat with the chairman.
REID: He understands his job is to do what he can to energize Democrats on the grassroots level around the country, to raise money for the DNC, and leave the policy making to the Democrats in the House and the Senate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: CNN asked Howard Dean to comment on the ad. His office declined. The chairman, it seems, is in Florida tonight and energizing the grassroots.
Wolf. BLITZER: All right, Candy. Thank you very much. Candy Crowley reporting for us.
Meanwhile, in Iraq, the fate of four kidnapped Christian peace activists -- unknown. An insurgent group is threatening to kill the American, Briton and two Canadian hostages tomorrow if the insurgents' demands are not met.
Today Sunni Arab clerics pleaded for their release. The kidnappers say they want jailed Islamic army fighters, in their words, to be freed and compensation to be paid to families in Iraq's hard hit Al-Anbar province.
Iraq's national elections are getting closer, scheduled for next Thursday.
Our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson will be monitoring those elections for all of us. Right now, though, he is embedded with U.S. troops conducting operations in Ramadi. I spoke with him just a short while ago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Ramadi is probably one of the toughest cities that I have visited here for some time, Wolf. It is perhaps the most deadliest for U.S. troops at the moment. There are a lot of insurgents focusing on this town to try to disrupt the elections coming up. And there are a lot of operations to stabilize the town in advance of the elections.
Just in the last couple of hours, standing here, we have heard a lot of controlled -- very loud explosions coming from Ramadi. A few minutes ago, I heard one of the pilot-less drone surveillance aircraft flying overhead. We just heard a large convoy going by. There is still a lot of activity even this time of night.
Wolf.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Nic Robertson embedded with U.S. troops in Ramadi, right now.
Coming up, we'll check what's happening.
Jack Cafferty is off this week. He'll be back on Monday.
But out of the shadows, into the public eye now, out on her own. Valerie Plame-Wilson ending her career over at the CIA. What might be next for America's most famous spy?
And it's supposed to be a season of peace, but looking more and more like a season of discontent. How do you celebrate Christmas without actually saying Christmas?
And Shaquille O'Neal needs a new uniform. The NBA superstar will now be taking down opponents not only on the basketball court, but on the streets of Miami.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. Tonight, some California officials fear violence in the streets if Stanley Tookie Williams is executed next Tuesday. But the death row inmate still appears to have hope that the governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, will spare his life. Williams says he's making plans to continue his anti-gang work.
CNN's Chris Lawrence is covering the story; he's joining us now from LA with the latest. The governor spoke out on the case today. Chris, what did he say?
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the governor says it is going to be a very difficult decision. And one he's considering very well.
We are right now waiting for him to release a written statement, which is what he promised to do once he comes to that decision. Earlier today, he was asked, when do you think you might reach that decision?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R) CALIFORNIA: I really don't know, because I'm working on it. I'm looking, studying the whole thing, reading a lot, last night to 11:00, almost to midnight. And I will be reading and doing all the research on it so we make the right decision.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAWRENCE: Now, Tookie Williams is the man that co-founded the Crips street gang. Prosecutors say he's also a cold-blooded killer who was convicted of four murders. His supporters will say that he has redeemed himself in prison -- that he has spoken out and helped children get out of the gangs like the one he created.
But the governor's decision is a difficult one. And there is growing concern here in Los Angeles, at least in some areas -- the city council members came out publicly for the first time today to urge people to remain calm no matter what the governor's decision is. They have also asked several churches to open their doors on Monday and Tuesday so that if clemency is denied that people can go to the churches and express their feelings in a peaceful manner.
Wolf.
BLITZER: Chris Lawrence in California for us, in LA. We'll be watching the governor's decision between now and Tuesday. Chris, thank you very much.
And that email from the governor's office literally could occur at any moment. Stay with CNN for the latest on that. John King filling in for Anderson Cooper tonight. John is joining us now live from New York with a preview of what's coming up later tonight. John?
JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Wolf. Coming up tonight, at 10 p.m. on 360, we'll of course be following the latest on the plane accident in Chicago. But we're also going to spending some time tonight on the kids of Katrina. Sent out of New Orleans and resettled at schools in Houston, more than three months after the storm in many cases, things are not going well. There are fights over turf breaking out in many of those schools and we will take a look at that.
A growing problem across America, believe it or not, reports of deer attacking people. A man in his garden suddenly charged and gored. Another man attacked while trying to open a door. What's going on? Find out tonight on 360, 10:00 Eastern.
Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, John. Thanks very much. We'll be watching. John King filling in for Anderson tonight.
Still to come here in THE SITUATION ROOM, a double agent, double crossed? Now America's most famous secret spy calling it quits. What's next for Valerie Plame-Wilson?
And on that runaway plane accident in Chicago that left a little boy dead, you will hear what it was like to be on the plane. I'll speak live with one of the passengers onboard when that plane crash landed.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to THE SITUATION ROOM. Fredricka Whitfield is joining us now from the CNN Center in Atlanta with a closer look at some other stories making news around the world.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again, Wolf.
Police in Lebanon say the main instructor of Hezbollah's guerrillas dodged an attempt on his life tonight. The official was identified to CNN as Mohammed Yazbek. They say a bomb blew up his car seconds after he stepped out of it. The explosion in the eastern city of Baalbek injured no one. Hezbollah blames Israel for the attack and vows retaliation.
Yesterday's comments by Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad have stirred a storm of global outrage. Germany's foreign ministry says it called Iran's ambassador to protest the hard-line leader's suggestion that the Holocaust never happened and that Israel should be moved to Europe. Also the U.N. Security Council, including Iran's ally, Russia, today unanimously condemned the comments.
While the U.S. stands alone in resisting a new broader global agreement to fight climate change, former President Bill Clinton has openly defied the Bush administration's position. On this, the final day of a U.N. conference on climate change, Clinton told a meeting that President Bush is -- quoting here -- "flat wrong" for rejecting the Kyoto Treaty. The new treaty would extend the Kyoto protocol past 2012.
Wolf.
BLITZER: I saw he got a standing ovation while he was speaking there. Thanks very much, Fred, for that.
Health officials in Thailand tell CNN a 5-year-old boy who died of bird flu this week had been playing with roosters used in cockfighting. After the boy got sick, all the roosters died as well. The sport of cockfighting is very popular in Southeast Asia. Not only is it brutal, though, it has also played a role in the spread of this deadly bird virus, at least that's the suspicion.
Our Doctor Sanjay Gupta, our senior medical correspondent is standing by with more on this. Sounds, to us, living here as very strange -- cockfighting, bird flu. What's going on, Sanjay?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SR. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: A very sad story, the 5-year-old boy. But this is part of the culture, Wolf. Cockfighting very big deal in Thailand and many Southeast Asian countries.
In fact, I was just there, as you know, Wolf. I actually got a chance to see some practice cockfighting. These are just practice cockfights, because it is actually officially banned right now because of the concerns about bird flu specifically. They actually wrap up the beaks and they wrap up some of the claws as well, to try and not injure other birds. And they have these practice fights.
There are 15 million cocking birds in Thailand alone. It is a very big sport as you can see there. But it is suspected that it could actually be spreading the bird flu, as well. Some of these roosters could be contaminated with the virus and subsequently spreading it to other birds, possibly spreading it to humans, as well. This 5-year-old boy, tragic situation as you know. After he died, several roosters in the neighbor's backyard died as well. And that is what sort of gave them that link.
This has happened before, Wolf, and this is just one of the ramifications you don't always think of when you think of bird flu in these countries.
BLITZER: All right. Sanjay, thank you very much. What an amazing story this is.
And to our viewers, please be sure to watch Sanjay's special on this subject Sunday night. He travels to the front lines of the battle against bird flu, investigating outbreaks in Thailand and Indonesia. "Killer Flu: A Breath Away" premiers Sunday 10:00 p.m. Eastern, only here on CNN. Just ahead, the view from inside that Southwest Airlines jet that skidded off a Chicago runway. One of the passengers joining us live to describe the ordeal.
Plus, Shaq's new career -- the NBA star branching out from basketball. We'll show you what he's doing.
You are in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: We may never have actually known her name. For decades she was a secret operative in one of the world's most secretive agencies until she was outed. Now that Valerie Plame-Wilson has moved from private spy to public person, she hopes to retreat into a private life once again.
Let's bring in our national security correspondent David Ensor. He's been watching this story. David.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, neither her husband nor the CIA is commenting, but officials are confirming -- or rather her friends are confirming that this was her last day at the CIA.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR (voice over): Though this was Valerie Plame-Wilson's last day on the job at the CIA, she will leave the payroll in January after using up accumulated leave time, friends say, ending her 20-year career.
Her cover was blown in a newspaper column more than two years ago and the long-time undercover officer found herself the most famous spy in America. Her CIA colleagues could no longer afford to be seen with her in public.
JAMES MARCINKOWSKI, FRIEND, FORMER CIA OFFICER: She can't even go out after work for a beer with those people anymore. Since everyone knows her, by association, her friends in the agency will have their own cover put at risk should they be seen out in public with her now.
ENSOR: Her cover was blown by administration officials apparently trying to discredit her husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, a critic of the Iraq war, who has said their pressure-cooker life since then has included telephone threats.
MELISSA MAHLE, FRIEND, FORMER CIA OFFICER: I think she's done an admirable job handling the stress and coming to terms with what it all means, in the whole package of it. And she's fairly philosophical about it. That doesn't mean she's not angry.
ENSOR: While in the CIA, Valerie Wilson had a number of glamorous assignments. Posing as an energy consultant, she spent some of them tracking shadowy arms dealers marketing weapons of mass destruction. Back at home, she has 5-year-old twins. And friends say, right now, they are her focus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ENSOR: And, Wolf, some of her friends think she should write a book. Could be quite a story.
BLITZER: David, people are going to ask she did voluntarily leave or was she pushed?
ENSOR: She voluntarily left, she resigned, Wolf. But she you could say she was pushed in the sense that she wanted to go on being an undercover officer, but once she was outed, she couldn't do that any longer.
BLITZER: David Ensor reporting for us. David, thank you very much.
My next guest trained with Valerie Plame back in the 1980s. On her outing, he was recently quoted as saying, "At the end of the day, she was betrayed by her own government and they show no signs of remorse."
Larry Johnson is a former CIA officer. He's joining us now to discuss the outing of Valerie Plame-Wilson and the impact on other CIA officers. Larry, thanks very much for joining us.
LARRY JOHNSON, FOMER CIA OFFICER: Hi, Wolf. Good to be with you.
BLITZER: Those are very strong words: "At the end of the day, she was betrayed by her own government and they show no signs of remorse." What exactly do you mean?
JOHNSON: I mean if the president came out and said look, I want the resignations right now of Karl Rove and Scooter Libby, he'd be sending a sign that he would not tolerate this kind of behavior. Instead, they're hiding behind a kind of legalisms we heard when Bill Clinton was president, trying to find what the meaning of is is, trying to find what, you know, the particular legal statute is. And that shouldn't be the standard here.
Valerie is a very low-key, professional person. One of these days, the American people will have a chance to get to know her. And what they're going to find is she is not the person that's been portrayed in the press. She is low-key, she's quiet, she's professional, she's very smart. And they'll find that the loss of her as an intelligence officer is something that has hurt the American people and our national security.
BLITZER: You probably saw that article that Victoria Toensing wrote in the "Wall Street Journal" in early November. And, among other things, Vicki Toensing is a former deputy assistant attorney general during the Reagan administration. "If the CIA truly, truly, truly had wanted Ms. Plame's identity to be secret, it never would have permitted her spouse to write the op-ed. Did no one at Langley think that her identity could be compromised if her spouse wrote a piece discussing a foreign mission about a volatile political issue that focused on her expertise?"
What do you make of her suggestion that her husband in effect was partially responsible for the outing Valerie Plame-Wilson?
JOHNSON: It is amazing to me that someone with Victoria's Toensing's education and experience can be so totally ignorant and incompetent on issues related to intelligence and cover. The fact of the matter is there are lots of other people who are undercover in the CIA who are married to foreign service officers, some of whom have written op-eds. And just because you do write an op-ed doesn't mean that you say, therefore, my wife works at the Central Intelligence Agency. So this kind of apologizing for what is really an unconscionable act, I find just totally disgusting, and it's really a discredit upon someone like Victoria Toensing.
BLITZER: Is she under some sort of security concern right now, given all the publicity that's gone out there?
JOHNSON: Yes. There have been very specific threats delivered against Valerie. And unfortunately, she is not going out and seeking the publicity. You know, and it's natural for the press to want to cover it. And I don't fault the press for this, but it's something that both her and Joe have to be concerned about because they want to protect their children. They want to protect themselves.
And, look, at the end of the day they're not looking to take a high profile in the public spotlight. Valerie's not running for a camera right to sit down and say, hey, let me tell you my story.
I hope at some point she decides to come out and sit down in an environment where she can tell her side of it and talk about the damage that's been done to her. Unfortunately, she'll never really be able to disclose the damage that has been done to our nation because there's still secrets that she will keep until her death.
BLITZER: Larry Johnson, a former CIA officer joining us. Thank you, Larry, very much.
JOHNSON: Thanks, Wolf. Thanks for having me.
BLITZER: Let's move back to our top story right now, the fallout from the crash of that Southwest Airlines plane that skidded off the runway at Chicago's Midway Airport killing a young boy in a passing car.
National Transportation Safety Board officials say the 737 will likely be moved tomorrow from the street where it came to a stop. I want to give you a better idea of what that accident was like for the passengers on board the plane.
Mike Abate was one of them. He's joining us on the phone now from Chicago. Mike, where were you sitting on the plane when that went down?
MIKE ABATE, SOUTHWEST PASSENGER: I was sitting in the aisle seat right on the exit row, right by the wing. BLITZER: Tell us what happened. The plane was coming down. It's obviously snowing. What could you see and what could you feel?
ABATE: Well, I mean, as we were on our approach into the Chicago Midway Airport area, you know, as we were typically landing -- I've been on, you know, many flights lately, a couple of which included snow and this one, you know, was very difficult to see the ground. In fact, visibility was very, very poor.
We had commented amongst ourselves on the plane that we couldn't even see city lights on the ground until really the last 10, 12, 15 seconds of the flight which indicated that, you know, obviously it was snowing pretty hard and so visibility was very poor, and then we landed a couple of seconds later, you know, on all three wheels, you know, pretty hard.
And at that point, everything seemed to be fairly normal, you know, as you start to press the brakes, due to the thrusters, the reverse thrusters, and then things started to go right awry after that with the second tapping of the brakes and especially the third one which is, you know, typically the -- that jostled us and we realized at that point we were not slowing down as we would normally do at that point.
And you could kind of feel the plane sliding almost as if you were driving a car, you were fishtailing and then you -- you know, this big rush of snow came over the side of the wing and engulfed the plane and that, you know, now in hindsight, looking back, to realize that the front nose had given out. A huge jolt, and a couple of seconds later, we were on the street.
BLITZER: Mike, what was the mood like inside the cabin? There were about 100 passengers, crew members inside. Were people screaming? Were they calm?
ABATE: You know, everybody was calm until we had that jolt to be honest with you. That's when you heard a few screams. Everybody kind of braced themselves pretty much on the seat in front of them. At that point, it was a huge jolt. That's when you realized things were -- had definitely gone wrong. But you know what?
Overall people were fairly calm, especially after we came to a stop and everybody kind of realized, you know, we are all in one piece. And then, you know, people looking at the windows and realize, you know -- it was very bizarre. You are looking at streetcars and seeing, you know, lights around you and you're just trying to kind of get your bearings down. And, you know -- but overall, people were very calm.
BLITZER: Well, thank God you're OK. Everybody else onboard was OK. Unfortunately, that little 6-year-old boy died in that car, about 12 or 13 other people were injured.
Mike Abate, thanks very much for sharing that experience with our viewers. Let's take a closer look now at the runway length, a possible -- possibly a key factor in the Southwest Airlines crash in Chicago. Tom Foreman been looking at various airports around the country and runways. What are you picking up, Tom?
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Length makes a difference in this thing. About 15 years ago, I think, something like this happened in New Orleans. Much smaller plane went through the traffic, didn't hit anybody.
But take a look at this. This is Chicago. We're going to take a look at Midway Airport. If we're flying in down here on the lake, Midway is an older airport. It was built for prop planes, many years ago, not the jets of today.
BLITZER: In the 1920s.
FOREMAN: Exactly. It's been around for a long, long time. Look at this runway. This runway is 6,522 feet long. That's not very long by modern airport standards. If you go through this and you see what happens, they flew right down this way, came to the end where they normally would have stopped in here but instead it went on to this intersection out here. Not a very long runway and some other very busy airports in this country also don't have very long runways.
Let's look at Reagan National Airport right here in Washington, D.C. That's one that's been in question. Look at this. One of the big runways here is also not terribly long. It runs out here, the difference being that this one runs out to water. It's not very long, 4,911 feet. That's only a third as long as one of the runways at Denver International, so you're talking about a much, much shorter runway but on this end it runs out to water. The other end it doesn't go to much of anything.
LaGuardia Airport, also an older airport up in New York same sort of issue. A much shorter runway -- it runs out into water this way. And if you have ever come in landing that way or taking off that way, you often have the sense that you might wind up in the drink and a few planes have occasionally out there but if you look at the other end of it, this is where you come into the bigger question. The other end of LaGuardia goes right into the Grand Central Parkway, right here, which is one of the major arteries leading in and out of New York.
BLITZER: So if the plane were going to skid, it would go right into that highway?
FOREMAN: Yes. And there are a number of airports besides the ones we've shown you, that I've flown into out of many years, where there's really close proximity to these roads. One of the difficulties though, as they found out in Denver when they tried to Denver International, is building a new airport is really hard.
You have got to get all sorts of clearances for land, for flight patterns, you have to get the investment money. You have to do an awful lot of things to build a new airport. So for the time being, many of these airports are going to stay around doing exactly what they have been doing and largely being very safe at it. But occasionally, like at Midway, things can go wrong.
BLITZER: Like Reagan National, this airport, Midway -- they're so much more convenient to downtown because they're right in the city basically ...
FOREMAN: People love it.
BLITZER: ... and perhaps not as safe as the ones way out in the suburbs. Thanks very much, Tom, for that. And we showed our viewers some live pictures of this Southwest plane. It's still on the ground at that intersection. We were told it's going to be moved tomorrow back into the airport on the tarmac and taken off the street.
If runway length is something you think about before you fly -- and you might want to start to thinking about that now -- you will want to hear from our Internet reporter, Jacki Schechner. She's discovered some very useful information. Jacki?
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET CORRESPONDENT: I found a Web site online called globalair.com. You can look up the airport that you travel out of or into most frequently, and it will give you some idea of what the runway lengths there are.
For example, we did plug in Midway and we actually found an even shorter runway than the one that Tom showing you. That one comes in at 3,859 feet. In comparison, give you an idea of a longer runway, I plugged in Miami International Airport, and one there turns up at 13,000. So, again, you go online to globalair.com before you fly. It'll give you an idea of what the runway lengths are looking like, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. Thanks very much, Jacki, for that. A lot of fliers out there are going to want to go there and check it out.
Up next here in THE SITUATION ROOM, press one for more from the blogosphere. Press two if you want other information. When we come back, what they're saying online about those annoying computer generated customer service reps on the phone.
If you hate those computers, we're going to tell you how to skirt them and go around them. Jacki's got some useful information.
And pick a tree, any tree. But what will you call it? Would a tree be the same by any other name? Should we call it a Tannenbaum? Oh Tannenbaum.
Stay with us.
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BLITZER: We're getting some new video into CNN right now, and we are going to give you some new details on the story on that man fatally shot by air marshals in Miami on Wednesday.
Check this out. This is surveillance video showing Rigoberto Alpizar at the airport in Quito, Ecuador. He is highlighted right there. You see the backpack he is wearing on his chest. He was working in Ecuador as a voluntary missionary before returning to Florida. He was on that flight from American Airlines flight from Quito, Ecuador to Miami. Then he was going to get on a separate flight from Miami back to Orlando near his hometown of Matlin (ph), Florida. You see him there talking to some people, gesturing. He's pointing at someone.
Ali Velshi is here. Let's talk a little bit about this video.
One of the things I have noticed, Ali, is the fact that he is wearing his backpack on his front, on his chest as opposed to his back. And we're told when he ran off the plane in Miami, and got onto that jet-way, that backpack was also, you can see it right there, on his chest.
And if air marshals are suspicious that he might have some sort of bomb, I have got to tell you, if you see someone wearing a backpack on his chest in that kind of tense environment, it's got to raise some alarm bells.
ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there are a couple of things. One is that we would never -- we don't even think about backpacks on your back because they are such a common sight. But this is an unusual looking thing.
There are also these days these particular packs that people carry in front sort of they've grown from the fanny packs upward, but that looks like a backpack. That looks like the kind of thing one would typically wear on their back. There are no struts across it.
It doesn't look like it's made to carry a baby, for instance. You see those baby carriers in the front. It just looks like he's wearing his backpack on the front.
And you're right. If somebody doesn't know what that is or why he's doing that, certainly in the environment that we are in now, someone could think what he's got in his backpack? Something you can reach in.
BLITZER: Especially if these air marshals think that they heard the word bomb or something like that. And then they see...
VELSHI: It seems more easily accessible. You can't reach into the back and grab something out.
BLITZER: All right. Ali, airlines are making all sorts of news today. You are watching this with the "Bottom Line." What are you picking up?
VELSHI: You know, you wouldn't think between the shooting and between what happened in Chicago, that this is a good week to be talking about starting new airlines. But the one guy who you can always get a surprise out of is Richard Branson, Sir Richard Branson. He's behind a number of companies, including Virgin Airlines. They have filed to start Virgin USA, Virgin America, an American-based airline. It will be based out of San Francisco. They have ordered 33 Airbus 320s. They are going to start with two or three planes and fly from San Francisco to New York. They are going to try and be competitive with the low cost airlines.
The last low cost airline to start in the United States was Jet Blue in 2000. They're doing quite well. Remember, three of the airlines in the United States are in bankruptcy.
Now, the person who is going to head up Virgin in the United States is a former Delta executive -- kind of interesting because Delta right now has until next Friday to make some decisions. They have asked for a bankruptcy court judge to overturn their contract with pilots to impose some cuts. The pilots have gone ahead to authorize a strike vote. Delta, if they don't get a ruling by next Friday, can actually legally lock out their pilots. So if you're looking at traveling on Delta at Christmas, one more thing to worry about.
BLITZER: Ali Velshi, always good to have you, especially good here in Washington. You're hosting ON THE STORY over at George Washington University. It airs Saturday night 7:00 p.m. Eastern, ON THE STORY. Our viewers will want to catch Ali Velshi and the entire CNN team at G.W., ON THE STORY Saturday night 7:00 p.m. Eastern.
It's called an interactive voice response system or IVR, and while the term may be new to you, the voice isn't. It's that annoying automated person who answers the phone every time you call the airlines or the electric company or some computer company, or God knows any other company. And the waiting, though, finally might be over.
Our Internet reporter Jacki Schechner is here to explain what's going on. Jacki?
SCHECHNER: I'll be honest. They drive me nuts too, Wolf.
Well, Paul English got annoyed and he did something about it. He created a cheat sheet, how to get around those annoying voice mail systems or the automated voice systems. He has got 120 companies on this list so far. He created it in March. It has since grown. It's now a viral thing on the Internet. It means people are passing it around. He has no idea why it picked up steam at the end of the summer, but everybody is passing this along to their friends. You can find it through his blog at PaulEnglish.com.
I spoke to Paul today. Some of the things he told me about, you can always try and press 0 if one of your companies that you're trying to get through is not on that list.
He said this is one of the things you can do. You can say agent or representative. He said when you find a human being, drop them a note, let them know, because they'll tell you why or how you can get through to the human being.
What I'm trying so say, basically, is when you find out more information, give it to Paul. He'll add it to the list. He said he has got a thousand companies he has not checked out yet so far. So if you want to help him out, you can also contact him and volunteer to work on this. And one of the interesting things to note, Wolf, is he's getting a lot of thank yous from customer service representatives, because when you're annoyed, you get to them. By the time you reach a human being, you are annoyed with them. It works our better for everybody if we just hit a human.
BLITZER: If I make a phone call, I want to talk to a human being right away. I don't want to wait 20 minutes and go through a million steps. Thanks very much, Jacki, for that. And thanks to Paul, as well.
Up next, there's nothing ho hum about it. A lot of people are talking about what to call trees -- Christmas versus holiday. New field tonight for the debate.
And later, it's a whole new ball game for Shaquille O'Neal. The former NBA star becomes a crime fighter. We'll tell you what's going on.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
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BLITZER: It's a spirited debate this season. Is Christmas by any other name still Christmas?
Our Mary Snow has the latest on holiday cards and trees. What is and what isn't politically correct. I'm going crazy trying to watch this story. Mary, what's going on?
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You, Wolf, and a lot of others. You know, in song, it's been proclaimed as the most wonderful time of the year. But lately, December is turning out to be one of the most contentious.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (voice over): It looks unassuming enough -- a town tree decorated for the holidays. But it's become the latest battle zone in the war between whether it's a Christmas tree or a holiday tree.
On the firing line, North Hampstead Town Supervisor Jon Kaiman, who publicly complained after a priest blessed the tree at an annual lighting ceremony.
JON KAIMAN, NORTH HAMPSTEAD TOWN SUPERVISOR: I went into it thinking it's a, in this particular ceremony, as just another holiday type generic ceremony.
SNOW: But the community went into a fury, saying it was a Christmas ceremony. Kaiman has done a 180 and apologized.
KAIMAN: It's important to let the community know that I do apologize for how I handled it, and do have a greater appreciation of the depth of this issue and a respect that, you know, Christmas is Christmas. SNOW: At the Capitol, though, the holiday tree lighting this year was changed to the Christmas tree lighting. Some religious activists are furious that the president and first lady sent out a card with best wishes for a holiday season.
While the controversy is not new, some say it's hitting a fever pitch.
WILLIAM DONAHUE, NATIONAL CATHOLIC LEAGUE: This is political correctness run amok. I mean quite frankly whose sensibilities are we protecting?
SNOW: Others say the uproar because stores or public offices are not using the word Christmas is getting out of control.
REV. BARRY LYNN, AMERICANS FOR SEP. OF CHURCH STATE: You know, most of us who celebrate Christmas get the spiritual sustenance at this time of year from our church. We don't expect to get it at the department store. We don't expect to get it at city hall.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: And in Georgia, the governor's office was quick to correct what had been billed as a holiday tree lighting ceremony, sending out a press release saying, due to a politically correct staff brain- freeze, the press office erroneously used the word "Holiday tree" to describe the coniferous flora that the governor and first lady will light this Sunday night. It is, in fact, a Christmas tree. And Governor Sonny Perdue noted that the responsible staffer can now be found in Alaska.
A little holiday cheer, Wolf, in a contentious subject.
BLITZER: Well, at least that staffer can have a white Christmas in Alaska. Thanks very much, Mary, for that.
Let's find out what's coming up right at top of the hour. Heidi Collins filling in for Paula tonight. Hi, Heidi.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Wolf. At the top of the hour we are going to be looking at a problem that may have contributed to the deadly plane accident in Chicago. There are, in fact, hundreds of airports around the country that have little or no room for error. They're right next to busy streets and bustling neighborhoods.
And moms and dads, listen to this. Believe it or not, we are going to hear about a way that promises to have your baby potty trained by the time they're just 1-year-old, but are you willing to put in the work? Because there might be a lot of it.
I'll see you at the top of the hour, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. Heidi, thanks very much.
Still ahead, meet the newest member of the Miami Beach Police Department. Can you say Shaquille O'Neal? That's coming up next.
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BLITZER: He's still playing for the Heat, but now Shaquille O'Neal is packing heat, as well. The seven foot one basketball star is among the newest members of the Miami Beach Police Department.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you solemnly swear?
SHAQUILLE O'NEAL, MIAMI HEAT: I solemnly swear.
BLITZER (voice over): Friends and fans call him Shaq. But now, he has an additional name to go by. Shaquille O'Neal is now a reserve detective with the Miami Beach Police Department, sworn in, in a private ceremony because he didn't want to steal the spotlight from other new officers at a public ceremony.
O'Neal was already working on his new career when I interviewed him in March.
O'NEAL: My NBA career will be over soon and I want to do something else. I don't want to just, you know, sit and talk about what I used to do and talk about guys and criticize guys. I want to do something that's going to help out in the community.
BLITZER: He will be out in the community, but because of his basketball fame, he won't be on a beat and can't go undercover. Instead, he'll work as an investigator though he aspires to be a sheriff or police chief.
O'NEAL: You know, part of my job as a father, as a person, as a law enforcement personnel, is to help keep those kids safe. You know, we want to keep the children away from sexual predators and criminals.
BLITZER: O'Neal is not the first celebrity to dabble in law enforcement. President Nixon made Elvis Presley an honorary DEA agent. But O'Neal will be a real working cop fulfilling another of his childhood dreams.
O'NEAL: When I was young, it was either to be a police officer, a athlete or just a, you know, businessman. So, luckily, I stayed out of trouble.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: O'Neal will continue to play with the Heat where he has a $100 million five-year contract. His salary, by the way, as a reserve officer, $1 a year.
Thanks very much for joining us. I'll be back Sunday on LATE EDITION. Among my guests, the U.S. ambassador in Iraq, Zalmay Khalilzad. Until then thanks very much for joining us.
Heidi Collins getting ready to pick up our coverage. Heidi? COLLINS: Thank you, Wolf.
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