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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Spying Concerns Lead to Patriot Act Impasse; Congress Debates Immigration Reform; Inspector General: Border Surveillance Flawed; Why Not a China Embargo?; U.S. to Prosecute Illegal Aliens; Evan Spiridellis, Gregg Spiridellis Interview; No Breakthrough In Sight For Latest Round Of WTO talks; Captain Josh Glover Honored
Aired December 16, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everybody.
Tonight, the federal government has been spying on Americans for three years without a warrant.
Plus, a top general gives details of the first troop withdrawals from Iraq since the Iraqi elections.
Then, JibJab is back with a hilarious review of the president's year. The creators of JibJab will join me.
Congress moves closer to a crackdown on illegal aliens. We'll have all that and more ahead, plus three of the country's top political analysts.
Well, we begin tonight with a new assault on the Bush administration's anti-terror policies. There's outrage after the president authorized the National Security Agency to spy in this country without court approval. Reports say the NSA monitored phone calls and e-mails of terrorist suspects.
The Senate has also refused to extend parts of the Patriot Act. Many senators expressed concern about the NSA spying operations.
Ed Henry reports from Capitol Hill -- Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, this was already a fiery debate about the Patriot Act whether it's violating civil liberties. But "The New York Times" revelation poured gasoline on that fire.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D), VERMONT: This warrantless eavesdropping program is not authorized by the Patriot Act, a secret presidential order, based on secret legal opinion by the same Justice Department lawyers, the same ones who argue secretly that the president could order the use of torture.
HENRY: Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist fell eight votes short of cutting off the filibuster, which means 16 key provisions of the Patriot Act will expire at the end of the month. The lead Republican, trying to save the provisions, said "The New York Times" story tipped the balance. SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (R-PA), CHAIRMAN, JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Very, very problemsome, if not devastating.
HENRY: One Democrat suggested the story was the deciding factor for him.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: But I went to bed, as I said, undecided. But today's revelation that the government listened in on thousands of phone conversations without getting a warrant is shocking and has greatly influenced my vote.
HENRY: But the Republican who helped lead the filibuster said the bill already had big problems: secret search warrants and roving wiretaps that raised civil liberties concerns.
SEN. JOHN SUNUNU (R), NEW HAMPSHIRE: I think the die was cast well before this story came out this morning.
HENRY: But a leading Republican had a dire warning for the 41 Democrats and four Republicans who voted to let the provisions expire.
SEN. JON KYL (R), ARIZONA: God help us if there's some kind of terrorist attack when we are not protected by the Patriot Act and the act could have enabled our law enforcement or our intelligence people to help protect us. We will have to answer for that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: Now Senator Frist has a procedural right to bring this back up for a vote any point in the next few days or next year. But if he doesn't do it in the next few days and he doesn't get the votes to actually get it passed, it's going to expire. These provisions will be done. That will be a big blow to the White House, Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Ed Henry. Thanks, Ed.
Well, CNN has confirmed President Bush signed a secret order to let the National Security Agency spy on people in this country. It's not clear what the president's order said or what that order allowed.
Kelli Arena reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Shortly after the September 11 attacks, government sources confirmed that President Bush issued a secret order to allow the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on people in the United States as part of terrorism investigation, a move first reported by "The New York Times," which critics say is illegal.
KATE MARTIN, CENTER FOR NATIONAL SECURITY STUDIES: The laws couldn't be any more clear. You can only wiretap an American if you have a warrant.
ARENA: Such a warrant can be approved by a secret intelligence court, housed in the Justice Department, and the eavesdropping is usually done by the FBI.
But government sources with knowledge of the program say the president's order bypasses all that in the interest of getting intelligence more quickly. And according to many security experts, the NSA is in the best position to do that.
RICHARD FALKENRATH, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: They have a wide range of capabilities. They're all very sensitive, highly classified for good reason. But they present the largest and most sophisticated capability.
ARENA: Administration officials will not confirm the change or deny it, creating an uproar on Capitol Hill.
SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: They tell us, "Trust us, we follow the law." Give me a break.
ARENA: In a press conference on an unrelated matter, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales would only say that winning the war on terror requires winning the war of information.
ALBERTO GONZALES, ATTORNEY GENERAL: So we will be aggressive and obtain that information, but we will always do so in a manner that's consistent with our legal obligations.
ARENA: The phone and e-mail communications that are being monitored by the NSA, according to government sources, are those taking place between people in the U.S. and individuals overseas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA: And they say the NSA eavesdrops in the U.S. without warrants as many as 500 people on any given time -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Kelli Arena.
Now "The New York Times" learned about the NSA spying operation one year ago but decided not to leak the story immediately. The "Times" said the Bush administration argued that early publication could jeopardize continuing terror investigations.
And "Times" executive editor Bill Keller said two things changed the newspaper's thinking on whether to publish, and the first was, Keller said, the "Times" "developed a fuller picture of the concerns and misgivings that have been expressed during the life of the program."
And also Keller said, "The 'Times' satisfied itself that it could write about this program in a way that would not expose intelligence gathering methods or the capabilities that are not already on the public record."
Now, President Bush today refused to say whether he authorized the NSA to spy on people in this country. In a PBS interview the president said he would not compromise, quote, "ongoing intelligence operations," unquote. Elaine Quijano reports from the White House -- Elaine.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, President Bush is neither confirming nor denying the report of domestic spying by the NSA, but the report is certainly raising questions about protecting civil liberties.
In that interview, airing tonight on PBS, the president would not comment on specifics, but he insisted that his administration is striking the proper balance between national security and privacy rights.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know that people are anxious to know the details of operations, that people want me to comment about the veracity of the story. The policy of this government is not going to do it. The reason why is that because it would compromise our ability to protect the people.
I think the point that Americans really want to know is twofold. One, are we doing everything we can to protect the people? And, two, are we protecting civil liberties as we do so? And my answer to both is yes, we are.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUIJANO: And many members of Congress upset about this. In fact, Republican Senator Arlen Specter, who heads up the Senate Judiciary Committee, says he plans to hold hearings on this early next year. He told reporters, quote, "There is no doubt that this is inappropriate."
The White House though, Kitty, continuing to insist that there is congressional oversight of the U.S.' intelligence activities -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Elaine Quijano.
Joining me now for more on this spying controversy is our senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin.
Jeff, what's your reaction to this whole report?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's really an example of how much the world has changed since the 1970s, when these laws regulating the intelligence gathering were passed.
We had one enemy in those days, and the technology was basically a telephone. Now, we have, unfortunately, multiple enemies with all sorts of cheap, easy to use technology at their disposal, everything from Blackberries and Sidekicks to cell phones, and the government has tried to respond to that.
The government's problem, it seems, is that, instead of following the law, in terms of how you tap people in this country, they seem to have just done it on their own. And that's where the Bush administration got in trouble.
PILGRIM: Now there's discussion that the intelligence surveillance court could give authorization within hours. Should they have gone through that?
TOOBIN: That's certainly the question. And the court is set up precisely for this reason, to regulate national security taps on people in this country.
I mean, people shouldn't be surprised that this kind of tapping goes on. It does go on, but it is regulated somewhat by this court. And I say only somewhat because this court is more or less a rubber stamp. It's not like this court turns down many requests, in fact, just a handful in many years.
But the government is supposed to go through the motions, at least, of asking for its permission, and apparently they didn't do that.
PILGRIM: If they're backtracking on some information that they get from a cell phone in Pakistan or a database in Pakistan, and it lands here in the United States, I could see an entire contingent of Americans saying, "Yes, I do want them to trace that."
TOOBIN: Absolutely. And remember, you're talking about cell phones. People throw them away every day, especially if, presumably, if you're a criminal and you're trying not to be caught. The speed is so different.
This law was set up when we were tapping the Soviet embassy, and everybody knew where the Soviet embassy was and you saw the aerials. It was very simple. This is not simple, and speed is important.
But it seems lying like what the Bush administration should have done is change the law so they followed the law. And I'm sure Congress would have let them change the law, but doing it unilaterally seems to have gotten them in some trouble and, politically, is responsible for the loss of the Patriot Act today.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Jeff Toobin.
Well, that brings us to tonight's poll. Should the White House have the authority to authorize eavesdropping on American citizens? Do cast your vote: loudobbs.com. We'll bring you the results a little bit later in the broadcast.
And still ahead, a tough measure to control illegal immigration passes a major hurdle in Congress. We'll have a special report.
Plus, how the federal government has spent nearly half a billion dollars on border security technology that doesn't work properly.
And 2005 is not over yet but that hasn't stopped the folks at JibJab from taking aim at President Bush for his record this year.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) (MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: The creators will join me later in the broadcast. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: The House of Representatives today continued its debate on tough border security legislation. Congressman fighting for increased border protection have so far been able to beat back the pro business lobby looking to weaken the bill. The question is, for how long?
Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Democrats in the House are voicing a common refrain.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Without a comprehensive approach.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Comprehensive immigration reform.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is needed is comprehensive reform.
SYLVESTER: Comprehensive reform: what they really mean is guest worker program, which after much political wrangling was not included in the House bill. Republican lawmakers say such a program rewards law breakers.
REP. J.D. HAYWORTH (R), ARIZONA: A guest worker plan that lets illegals keep their jobs is amnesty.
SYLVESTER: The House bill mandates an employment verification system, makes illegal immigration a crime, and stiffens penalties for alien smugglers.
In addition, lawmakers passed a series of amendments to build a fence on the southwest border and to set an 18-month deadline for the government to cut off all unlawful entry.
Other proposals would eliminate the visa lottery system and would require local police to help enforce federal immigration law. Supporters of the bill say illegal aliens are hurting working Americans.
REP. GARY MILLER (R), CALIFORNIA: What responsibility we have here to the workers of the United States of America who have lost their jobs or instead of being $22 now are having to work for $11 an hour.
SYLVESTER: But some Republicans and border enforcement groups ironically oppose the bill, because they worry it will be used as a Trojan horse by the Senate.
DAN STEIN, FEDERATION FOR AMERICAN IMMIGRATION REFORM: The bill they're starting with, in our view, remains probably too weak to try to risk conferencing with what the Senate is going to pass. And at the end of the day, unless people are very vigilant and demand no amnesty or guest worker, they've got to be vigilant to make sure we don't make the situation worse.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: The Chamber of Commerce and other business groups have been largely silent in the House debate. They are focusing their energies on the Senate. But next year is an election year and the vast majority of Americans want real border enforcement, not just words or a slogan on a bumper sticker -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: This won't go away any time soon. Thanks very much, Lisa Sylvester.
Also on Capitol Hill today, new charges of border security incompetence and mismanagement. Officials are raising serious questions over whether our nation is even capable of beefing up border surveillance, given the track record.
Christine Romans reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Cameras patrol our borders, thermal night vision cameras and daylight surveillance, part of a layered approach using sensors, cameras, intelligence, unmanned drones and border patrol agents. Since 1997, tax payers have spent $429 million on this remote surveillance technology.
On Capitol Hill, a frank assessment of what that half a billion dollars has achieved?
REP. BILL PASCRELL (D), NEW JERSEY: One has to conclude that it doesn't work, it's broken.
ROMANS: The inspector general of the Department of Homeland Security outlined to a House subcommittee a project rife with cost overruns and installation delays.
Animals, trains and seismic activity can trip ground surveillance sensors. And border patrol agents spend needless hours responding to false alarms. Some equipment just doesn't work. Some was never finished.
RICHARD SKINNER, DHS INSPECTOR GENERAL: What was not completed was 168 camera sites, 38 repeater sites, and 206 total sites were left incomplete.
ROMANS: And incredibly, it takes 20 months to install a very expensive camera on a very expensive pole in the desert.
REP. MIKE ROGERS (R-MI), CHAIRMAN, OVERSIGHT SUBCOMMITTEE: We were paying, based on what you're telling me, about $800,000 a site.
SKINNER: That's correct, approximately yes.
ROGERS: For a pole with two to four cameras on each one. I know that doesn't shock some people in Washington, but that's just an astounding number to me and most people in America, I would think.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: So astounding he called this a poster child for government mismanagement. The great concern is that if the government since 1997 has been unable to oversee this project will the more comprehensive secure border initiative be any better at all?
PILGRIM: What was the response of DHS on this?
ROMANS: In its written response to this inspector general report, the border patrol said they agreed with many of the findings. They didn't agree with the tone of this. They also agreed with some of the recommendations and pointed out that they had also raised some concerns. They had sort of inherited some of these problems well before the reorganization of DHS a few years ago.
PILGRIM: But they're working on it, right?
ROMANS: They're working on it.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Christine.
Well, still ahead, does the U.S. government have a double standard? The White House has warm relations with communist China but it continues to punish communist Cuba. Our special report coming up.
Plus 2005 like you've never seen it before. The creators of JibJab are out with a hilarious look back at the year that was.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: This program's most important issues set to music. The creators of JibJab will be my special guests coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: The Cuban embargo, designed to economically isolate communist Cuba and its despotic leader, Fidel Castro, is still firmly in place. Yet, communist China, despite its repressive policies and human rights abuses, trades freely with U.S. companies. We take a look why.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM (voice-over): Cuba is out of the inaugural World Baseball Classic in the United States next March. A spokesperson from the U.S. Treasury said, "The Cuban embargo prohibits trade contracts in which Cuba or Cuban nationals have an interest."
Why is the trade embargo against communist Cuba so firmly in place, and yet communist China is our biggest trading partner? Some say because of the powerful Cuban lobby in Florida.
WALTER RUSSELL MEAD, AUTHOR, "POWER, TERROR, PEACE AND WAR": Given the importance of Florida politics in the last two presidential elections, I can't imagine either Bush or, for that matter, a Democratic opponent to Bush advocating policies that might substantially alienate an important Florida electoral block.
PILGRIM: The Cuban embargo is meant to economically isolate Castro, drive the people of Cuba to reject him as the leader, but with Canada and European countries freely trading and building resorts on the island, the U.S. policy of isolation has little effect and gives Castro a rallying cry to keep his country united against a common enemy, the United States.
By contrast, President Nixon's trip broke through communist China's isolation in 1972. So now, even though China is the repressive communist regime that abuses the human rights of its citizens, U.S. policy is of so called engagement. Nuanced diplomatic and trade relations to bring China to better behavior.
But practically, China is an economic powerhouse of 1.3 billion people and the world's third largest economy. It could not be isolated now, anyway.
HELLE DALE, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: We have to deal with China on so many levels that it's -- it's difficult to isolate human rights from the others. I would obviously like to see China develop in a better direction. It has been going backwards not forwards where it's political developments and its human rights record is concerned. We should keep bringing it up. We should keep exerting the pressure we can.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Certain targeted measures such as blocking international arm sales to China are effective. But with Cuba in complete isolation from U.S. policy, there's virtually no leverage that can be used to change a repressive regime.
California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger can't seem to get a break these days. His approval rating has plunged in California. They're even turning against him in his native Austria.
Austrian politicians are trying to remove Schwarzenegger's name from his sports stadium in his very own hometown. They're upset that he didn't spare the life of convicted murder Stanley Tookie Williams.
Opposition to the death penalty is strong in Austria, and Schwarzenegger's name could be wiped off the stadium as soon as next month. Coming up, the federal government has a new plan to secure our nation's board, and the concept is so simple it might surprise you that it's taken this long to do it.
And then, executive decision, shocking reports that the president allowed security officials to spy on thousands of Americans. I'll talk with this country's top political and legal analysts about this controversy.
And JibJab strikes again. We'll talk to the creators of the new outrageous political cartoon that satirizes many of the issues we cover on this broadcast.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Let's go to the White House. Elaine Quijano has some news for us -- Elaine.
QUIJANO: Kitty, we've just learned from White House press secretary Scott McClellan moments ago that on Sunday night, President Bush will deliver a prime time address from the Oval Office on an issue of Iraq.
Now we are told that the address will begin at 9 p.m. Eastern Time. And White House spokesman Scott McClellan calling this a critical moment in the history of the Iraqi people. Obviously, this coming on the heels of those historic parliamentary elections yesterday.
But Scott McClellan going on to say, and paraphrasing now, that this will be a speech taking a look at where the United States and where Iraq is headed, what has been accomplished so far, where things are headed in the future, and the importance of the mission itself.
Now, this is believed to be the first time that the president will be addressing the nation from the Oval Office since the start of the military operations in Iraq in 2003.
We should also note that tomorrow another rare event, the president set to deliver a live radio address from the Roosevelt Room of the White House, and the issue there we are told, the Patriot Act.
But, again, Scott McClellan telling reporters just moments ago that at 9 p.m. Eastern Time on Sunday, President Bush will address the nation from the Oval Office to talk about Iraq -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Elaine Quijano. Thanks, Elaine.
Also tonight, the U.S. government has a revolutionary new idea in the fight against illegal aliens. It's starting up a program that would finally prosecute illegal aliens sneaking across our southern border. Prosecuting people for breaking the law. What a concept.
Casey Wian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The border around Del Rio, Texas, has become a popular crossing point for illegal aliens, and particularly non-Mexicans. So-called OTMs are the group most likely to include potential terrorists.
So the federal government has a new policy for the busiest five- mile stretch of the Del Rio sector. Every illegal alien caught there who's not released for humanitarian reasons is now being prosecuted for illegal entry.
MICHAEL CUTLER, FORMER INS OFFICIAL: We're looking at a boat with many holes in it. We're plugging one of so many holes that I don't know that it's going to make a difference. It's a good message to send, but I don't think this is going to do anything more than inconvenience some people.
WIAN: Called Operation Streamline II, the new policy is a joint effort of five federal law enforcement agencies. It's been in effect for about a week and is in stark contrast to standard policy along the rest of the border.
Usually only the most violent criminals or major drug smugglers face prosecution. Most other illegal aliens are either returned to their home country or, in the case of many OTMs, given an order to appear in court, then released in the United States.
The penalty for illegal entry is up to six months in jail. Aliens convicted will also be subject to deportation once they've served their sentence.
At a time when Congress is debating immigration reform, it's one of many existing border security laws that are not being enforced.
REP. TOM TANCREDO (R), COLORADO: We could probably come close to solving our immigration problem without passing another single piece of legislation if the president would simply use the power he has and act today. He has the ability through executive order and through all the laws that are presently on the books to actually begin to secure this country's borders.
WIAN: The Border Patrol would not say how long the operation will run or if it will be expanded to other areas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: The reality is most sectors don't have the resources to prosecute every illegal alien caught crossing the border, and that's a problem Congress and the White House need to solve -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: They sure do. Thanks a lot.
Casey Wian.
Thanks, Casey.
Well, from border security to the war in Iraq, to our nation's hurricane disasters, this year was filled with major news events that have been jam packed into a new JibJab. It's a feature called 2-0-5. And if you are a frequent viewer of this broadcast, you will be familiar with the themes, as JibJab bids farewell to this eventful year.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, you've had quite a year. Can you tell us what you're thinking as it draws to a close?
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Well, joining me now from Los Angeles, the creators of JibJab, brothers Evan and Gregg Spiridellis.
And thanks very much for being with us, gentlemen.
GREGG SPIRIDELLIS, CO-FOUNDER, JIBJAB: Thanks for having us.
E. SPIRIDELLIS, CO-FOUNDER, JIBJAB: Thanks.
PILGRIM: It's a gag a second. That's what they say.
E. SPIRIDELLIS: Thank you.
PILGRIM: You know, I have to tell you I was on the Web site earlier today and they said please come back, too much traffic, can't get in. How many people look at this?
G. SPIRIDELLIS: Well, we're up -- at last count, we're over half a million streams just on JibJab.com, and it's also available on msnvideo.com. And so significantly more there I would imagine.
So I would hope we're over a million views in our first day, which is a huge, huge hit for us. And we're thrilled people are passing it around.
PILGRIM: You know, we looked at this a lot. We've seen some of your other products.
Do you ever hit a point where you go, no, no, no, we can't do that; it's just too sensitive?
I don't think so. There's nothing you don't touch.
E. SPIRIDELLIS: Yes, we haven't really gotten there yet. Maybe it will happen some day.
But so far we're pretty comfortable with the stuff we throw in the song.
PILGRIM: Yes. They are very amusing.
Do you get any criticism for touching on very sort of sensitive subjects?
G. SPIRIDELLIS: Well, I think, you know, we struggle with the same thing anybody doing satire does. I mean, the big issues are always challenging issues. So we try to do them in a way that's not mean spirited. And we hope that laughing can be therapeutic and, you know, that these are nice little fun diversions.
But as we say, we hope no one ever makes any decisions or changes their mind based on a two-minute cartoon.
PILGRIM: You touch on a lot of things that we cover in this broadcast -- your Wal-Mart stuff, big box, outsourcing labor, cheap foreign labor markets.
How do you come up with your agenda? How do you figure out what's in and what's out of this current version or any current version?
E. SPIRIDELLIS: Well, we kind of -- the one thing we try to do is leave our personal politics out of our political pieces. So we don't have a personal agenda in that regard.
But really it's these big sort of thorny issues that get us excited as satirists, that get us making -- get our brains working and get the creative juices flowing.
PILGRIM: What's next?
G. SPIRIDELLIS: Oh, lots.
We have a bunch of new things we're going to be doing on the Web early next year. And hopefully, 2006, we'll be on our way to making a movie, something we've always wanted to do. So we're trying to get that in motion right now.
PILGRIM: Have you guys made serious money yet?
I hear that you have fewer employees than the local coffee shop.
G. SPIRIDELLIS: Yes, that's right. Yes, we have eight employees. So we say we've quadrupled in size.
But it's -- you know, we put it all back into the pieces because we just believe right now building the JibJab brand, attracting an audience, some day that will be worth something. So we rent our apartments and don't drive fancy cars.
But we get to make what we love and what's better than that, you know?
PILGRIM: Well, you certainly touch the -- hit the funny bone of the country.
And thanks very much for being with us this evening.
JibJab creators Gregg and Evan Spiridellis. Thank you very much for being with us.
E. SPIRIDELLIS: Thanks for having us.
G. SPIRIDELLIS: Thanks.
PILGRIM: OK.
It's getting down to the wire at the World Trade Organization talks in Hong Kong. Now, the latest round of WTO talks end Sunday. There does not appear to be a breakthrough in sight. Supporters of a trade deal say an agreement would boost the global economy and help the world's poor, but these proposals are widely unpopular. And protesters were out in force in Hong Kong yet again today. They defaced the U.S. Consulate with spray painted slogans that said, "Down with the WTO."
Just ahead, new hopes for a sizable U.S. troop withdrawal from Iraq. An update from the Pentagon next. We'll tell you all about it.
Plus, President Bush's secret decision to spy on the American people. Is the U.S. going too far in its efforts to stop terrorism?
Our political panel is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: The U.S. commander in Iraq, General George Casey today gave details of the first American troop withdrawals from Iraq since the election. Now, those initial withdrawals will take the number of U.S. troops in Iraq down to 138,000. That's the level before the election.
Barbara Starr reports from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With Iraq's historic election over and the votes being counted, commanders see a new period of optimism, tempered by uncertainty about the insurgency and the still unfolding political situation.
GENERAL GEORGE CASEY, COMMANDER, MULTINATIONAL FORCE: The Iraqi people had a great day yesterday.
STARR: For U.S. troops still on patrol in Iraq, the stakes couldn't be higher. It all comes down to getting that ticket to go home.
CASEY: We're doing our assessments and I'll make some recommendations in the coming weeks here.
STARR: Casey is expected to recommend troop levels go down by 30,000 over the next several months if Iraqi security forces continue to improve. Of the 1700 military operations conducted last month, only 200 were solely U.S. efforts. The other key question, will the Baathist insurgent groups, which were peaceful on election day, embrace a new government? Is this the turning point for the largest element of the insurgency?
CASEY: I certainly understand why you're asking the question and I'm asking myself the same question. But I think it's too early to tell.
STARR: Casey expects the insurgents to use both violence and politics to achieve their goals. He points out the new Iraqi Assembly still faces controversial constitutional issues.
Some analysts say now is a pivotal time for Iraq.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to be into the late spring or summer before anybody really has a sense for how power is going to be divided in this country.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: And, Kitty, what about the foreign fighters and those who are loyal to Abu Musab al Zarqawi. Well, General Casey says he expects those violent extremists to continue their attacks even in the face of millions of Iraqis going to the polls and casting their votes for a more peaceful future for the country--Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Barbara Starr.
Well, I'm joined in New York by a brilliant panel, former White House Political Director Ed Rollins, "Time Magazine" columnist Joe Klein, and joining us from Boston is former adviser to four presidents, David Gergen. Can't beat a crowd like that to kick things around for the week. Thanks for joining us, gentlemen.
ED ROLLINS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIRECTOR: We're not as funny as JibJab.
JOE KLEIN, COLUMNIST, TIME MAGAZINE: No absolutely not.
PILGRIM: I don't know who is as funny as JibJab.
KLEIN: Maybe Gergen is.
ROLLINS: Gergen is.
PILGRIM: I think he might be. OK. We'll vote for him.
Let's start with the president's address. We just had news that the president will address the nation at 9:00 on Sunday night. He's been doing it quite a bit on Iraq this week. Let's start with you, Joe.
KLEIN: Well, I don't know why he's doing this. He's given four solid speeches on this. And there isn't going to be real news from Iraq until we actually know what happens with this election. This election, like the last election, could be good news or it could be bad news. It could be really bad news if you get another radical religious Shiite government.
And so I don't know why the president is preempting Desperate Housewives to do this.
PILGRIM: That's what you are really annoyed about. OK, Ed.
ROLLINS: Well, obviously, the point Joe makes is very important. He really has to say something big. When you do it prime time from the Oval Office people expect a great deal. And unfortunately the expectation now is they are going to pull troops back. They have had their election. We're going to pull troops back. And I don't think we're ready to do that.
So I think it's a high risk speech. He's had a good run here the three or four speeches the last few weeks. I think he has made his case much more effectively. But I think the expectation will be pretty high for this one so he better meet that expectation.
PILGRIM: And yet, David, every time he comes out the poll numbers are notching up slowly but steadily. He's off of his low, right?
DAVID GERGEN, FMR. PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: Well, I think he is. And I think it is a smart move actually to do this speech. In effect he has been giving daytime speeches with tiny audiences. It's like playing in New Haven and now he's going to Broadway. And he has got a chance now to speak to the whole country. I imagine all the networks will carry it.
And I would not be surprised if he announces at least 20,000 troops. The ones that went in to support the election will come out in this speech. That will be sort of a down payment in effect, and I think give people hope that more would come.
From my point of view I thought it very likely he would go on the air before Christmas. Frankly, I thought he would do a press conference. I thought that would win even more support than a canned speech. But nonetheless, I think talking to the country before the end of the year is a smart thing to do.
KLEIN: He announces the 20,000 today and everybody knew that they were coming out as part of the normal rotation schedule. In fact, I was always kind of -- it seemed weird when John Kerry would call for 20,000 troops to be withdrawn when everybody knew they were being pulled out in any case.
PILGRIM: Just beefing up for the election.
KLEIN: Yes, just for the election.
PILGRIM: Let's move on to the spy issue and the whole NSA stuff. What is your reaction to that today? Is this overblown, under blown, or is this going to get bigger?
KLEIN: It's hard to tell whether it's overblown. It certainly is going to seem terrible. We don't know the details of it yet. And the problem is with things like wiretapping and torture, as soon as you open the door a little bit, a whole bunch of fools rush in and people start doing silly things.
And so we may well see, as this goes on, that some of the wrong people have been tapped.
PILGRIM: Some of the justification is that there was an order, a congressional order in 2001 to fight al Qaeda. This is part of it.
ROLLINS: It could be. I mean, I think Joe's point is we don't know what the facts are.
The second bar of the story is why did "The New York Times" hold a story like this for a year, and I think the tragedy for the president is the headline today is the great election yesterday, which obviously we have all been anticipating, waiting for, hope will turn out. And opposite the page is something that certainly raises a lot of doubts and a lot of questions.
PILGRIM: This certainly did create quite a flurry today. David, what is your assessment?
GERGEN: Well, we don't know all the facts.
But what we have seen is a pattern here. And it is a pattern that shows a willful disregard for the laws and customs of the country with regard to torture, with regard to this surveillance, this wiretapping of people, domestics, which is, I think, very, very close to violating the law, if it doesn't go over it. And a lot of people in NSA apparently refused to do it and all the planted P.R. stories, P.R. propaganda machine.
And all of this has been done surreptitiously. And it's been done without the full understanding of the Congress. You got Arlen Specter today, the Republican head of the Judiciary Committee, who is angry. It's clear he's angry that he didn't know. And he's going to hold tough hearings next year.
ROLLINS: There's a lot more than Arlen Specter who is very angry, David.
GERGEN: Absolutely.
ROLLINS: I spent today in Washington, with the torture thing, the McCain amendment, which was obviously a setback from what the president originally wanted, the whole premise that we're doing things we shouldn't be doing and, as you say, the potential of violating the law. I think, the attitude of the Congress, if you need it, come up, present it to us, and we'll make a judgment on it.
GERGEN: That's the way it's normally done.
PILGRIM: And the torture, the whole torture, issue has been going on all week here in Washington.
KLEIN: And it's been terrible for the country. Because, you know, our reputation around the world has suffered tremendously. This NSA story is going to make it tougher even more.
And the interesting thing about it was that the sources of this story were intelligence officers who felt uncomfortable with the powers that they were given. Especially since there's that special court in place that is as Jeff Toobin said before practically a rubber stamp.
PILGRIM: Any last minute thoughts on this?
ROLLINS: Well, I think they better get the story out. They have got to get some examples of, you know, not giving away the people they surveyed, but they have to basically dampen the story down and say, these are the kind of things we did do. These are the kinds of things we certainly did not do. I think would make people feel a lot safer.
GERGEN: And we are heading into a period now, we're getting a much tougher congressional scrutiny of this administration by Republicans as well as Democrats, I think, over the next three years.
PILGRIM: All right. Gentlemen, thank you so much. Ed Rollins, Joe Klein, David Gergen, thank you.
A reminder now to vote in tonight's poll, should the White House have the authority to authorize eavesdropping on American citizens? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll bring you the results in just a few minutes.
And coming up at the top of the hour here on CNN "The Situation Room," Wolf Blitzer.
Wolf, what are you working on?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much Kitty.
We're working on lots, much more on this late announcement coming from the White House that President Bush will be in the Oval Office for an address to the American people on Iraq Sunday night. What is behind this decision? What is he likely to say? We're going to take a much closer look.
Also, the Senate puts the freeze on the Patriot Act concerned about spying here at home. But has the president unleashed a secret spy agency letting it loose on our civil liberties?
Also, race, politics, and bold statements. The actor Morgan Freeman calling black history month ridiculous. Find out why. We have the video that's raising some eyebrows.
And a shock jock signing off. Howard Stern's last day on the radio, but now he's heading to satellite radio. Is that the wave of the future?
All that and much more, Kitty, right at the top of the hour.
PILGRIM: We look forward to it Wolf. Thank you.
How about a little seasonal story? You can rent a car. You can rent a tuxedo. Why can't you rent a Christmas tree?
In San Francisco this holiday season residents are renting Christmas trees for $90 a piece. And three comes in a pot and after New Year's they get planted back into the earth. Now 100 trees were offered for rent this year. All of them have been rented. And San Francisco says it hopes to double the number of trees it rents next year.
Still ahead tonight, "Heroes." How one Marine recovered classified information in Iraq even after his platoon was ambushed. And it's been called the best commercial of the year, our moving salute to our troops you won't want to miss.
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PILGRIM: Now "Heroes," our weekly tribute to our men and women in uniform. Captain Josh Glover led his platoon in two rescues under fire in just one day while serving in Iraq. He was awarded a Silver Star for his bravery. Philippa Holland has his story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CAPTAIN JOSH GLOVER, U.S. MARINE CORPS: This is my platoon in Fallujah at our battalion command post, because we were the battalion quick reaction force.
PHILIPPA HOLLAND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Early in the morning of April 13, 2004, during Operation Vigilant Resolve, then 1st Lieutenant Josh Glover's platoon was called to retrieve classified information from a down Air Force helicopter near Fallujah.
GLOVER: We were ambushed by about 30 or 40 enemy on an ambush that probably spanned about a kilometer and half. They attacked with mortars, rocket-propelled grenades, machine guns, AK-47s. We ended up fighting through that ambush.
At the tail end of it, a rocket-propelled grenade hit one of my vehicles, killed one marine and wounded several as well. We got back to the city, dropped off our wounded marines, and then went back to refit.
HOLLAND: With classified information secured, Glover's quick reaction force was again sent to the front, this time to recover a destroyed, amphibian assault vehicle. That body contained the body of marine killed in the fighting.
GLOVER: We had to bring that marine's body back through enemy (ph) lines.
HOLLAND: They also had to rescue the rest of the platoon in Fallujah.
GLOVER: There was about 15 or 20 marines who were inside a house. We were just not in moving alongside the tanks as we tried to get out to the location of the stranded marines. So we had some pretty close engagements. They were running low on ammo, and they did have some casualties, so we pushed through and got on out there and linked up with them.
HOLLAND: Promoted this fall, Captain Glover was presented with the Silver Star for his courageous actions, personal initiative, and loyal devotion to duty.
GLOVER: When things are going on, and you're actually staring all that stuff in the face, and you're in combat, I think you do it for your fellow marines. You know, you got 60 reasons why you've got to do well.
HOLLAND (on camera): For at least the next two years, Captain Glover will be stationed here, at Marine Barracks Washington, the oldest post in the Marine Corps. After that he hopes to return to the fleet and assume a company command.
Philippa Holland, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: In addition to the Silver Star, Captain Glover has also received two Purple Hearts, a Navy Achievement Medal and a Navy Commendation Medal, both with combat distinguishing device for valor.
One of the best television ads of the year is in the form of a salute to our troops. We'll show it to you when we come back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Now the results of tonight's poll. Ninety-two percent of you believe the White House should not have the authority to authorize eavesdropping on American citizens.
A salute now to our troops in the form of a TV commercial. It's widely regarded as one of the best commercials of the year. In fact, the Budweiser ad debuted during the Super Bowl earlier this year, and it's a spot I'm sure will be remembered by all of us this holiday season. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(APPLAUSE)
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PILGRIM: Finally tonight, our nightly tribute to our troops. We'd like our troops serving this country overseas this holiday season to be able to reach out to their family and friends.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Capital Al Urban (ph) from Al Asad, Iraq. I want to wish a happy holidays and Merry Christmas to my wife Michelle (ph), my daughter Sara (ph), and my sons Shane (ph), and Cody (ph). Take care, guys. Love you lots.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is specialist Waters in Afghanistan out in Terinta (ph), Afghanistan. I would like send warm holiday cheers back home to Spring Valley, New York, to all my friends and family. Grandma, I love you and I miss you and I'll see you soon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, I'm operation specialist second class Takiya Harris (ph), stationed on board the USS Pearl Harbor in the Arabian Gulf, and I just want to send a holiday greeting to my mom, Elizabeth Harris, and all my family and friends in Troy, North Carolina.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you doing? My name is Saren Malente Mutaba (ph). I'm currently stationed in Al Asad, Iraq. I wanted to wish a Merry Christmas and happy New Year's to my wife Paula, my kids Justin and Christopher that are in Kew Gardens, New York. Merry Christmas, have a happy New Year's. I love you all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us on Monday. We'll have complete coverage of the reaction to President Bush's to the nation on Iraq, and we'll be joined by the author of the new book "The Untied States of America." He explains why the diversity that once made America great has now polarized it.
For all of us here, good night from New York. Have a pleasant weekend. "THE SITUATION ROOM" starts right now with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Kitty.
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