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President Bush Takes Offensive on Senate Filibuster to Stall Patriot Act; Ariel Sharon's Stroke Not Severe; Interview with Bono

Aired December 19, 2005 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: We're going to be going to our John King, Bill Schneider and Suzanne Malveaux in just a moment. Suzanne was in the news conference there.
A couple of top points the president had to make, he addressed the NSA scandal, calling it a shameful act to disclose in a time of war, that this program would be taking place. And he explained also why he believes it's important in certain cases to skip the courts when he was looking to get information on perspective terrorists.

Also comments on the Patriot Act. And asked once again if it was a mistake to go into war in Iraq, the president saying, once again, he does not believe that it was.

Suzanne Malveaux ready to go at the White House -- Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Daryn, it was very interesting. The president several times was asked about that domestic eavesdropping program, that secret program. The president adamant that he believes that he has the full authority to conduct that without previous warrants, without the kinds of mechanisms that are already in place.

The president saying that he swore to uphold the law. He did mention, as well as Attorney General Alberto Gonzales earlier today, the legal foundation behind that. The authority deriving from Congress' vote, giving him the authority to go after Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda, citing that as part of the authority, as well as the Constitution. Of course, there is going to be an ongoing debate within the legal community as to whether or not that is legitimate.

And also, the president very strong words when it came to the Patriot Act, saying to members of Congress that it is inexcusable to allow that to expire.

These two topics very important to the president, because as we look to the next six months here, he, of course, is going to be looking at the developments on the ground in Iraq. That is going to be critical to his success in making sure that the Republicans stay the course here, that they do not tie themselves with the administration and think that they will be politically damaged by the U.S. mission in Iraq and the midterm elections that will happen next year -- Daryn.

KAGAN: And Suzanne, for those of us who weren't with us for the whole hour, let's go back to the point the president was making where he did say that he does believe he has the constitutional authority to protect the country and this is why he supported this domestic spying situation.

Let's go ahead and listen to the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I reauthorized this program more than 30 times since the September 11th attacks, and I intend to do so, for so long as our nation -- so for long as the nation faces the continuing threat of an enemy that wants to kill American citizens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Suzanne, this was the president really owning this program, saying he didn't just support it once, he has re-upped it more than 30 times, and saying he will keep doing that as long as he thinks the country needs that in order to stay safe.

MALVEAUX: And he believes -- he mentioned the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, the specific court, usually that is the mechanism by which the president obtains permission to go ahead and do this kind of domestic eavesdropping. He believes that is a mechanism that is outdated that moves too slowly, is not agile enough when it comes to the kind of intelligence cases put before his desk.

Of course, members of Congress here are saying, they believe they did not give the president carte blanche type of authority when they went ahead and said, OK, go ahead and go against Osama bin Laden, give him the authority to go against Al Qaeda. There are a number of members of Congress taking issue with the president's statements here. And there are also constitutional scholars who are taking a very close look at what the president cited as his authority to go ahead and do this.

KAGAN: Suzanne Malveaux at the White House. Suzanne, thank you.

Let's go ahead and welcome back our John King, who is in New York City today and Bill Schneider in Los Angeles.

John, starting with you, seemed like the president trying to turn the tables here, not being defensive about why he endorsed this program through the NSA. Saying he, as Suzanne was pointing out had the constitutional authority. But pointing the finger at whoever leaked that the program would be taking place, calling it a shameful act to disclose something like this during a time of war.

JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Daryn. I think at times the president was trying to defend the program without being defensive. And he's obviously trying to get back on offense. This is a key test of this president.

For four years after 9/11 George W. Bush won every time there was a fight about this. The power of the presidency, could you expand law enforcement authority? Could you expand surveillance authority? Would Americans sacrifice a bit of their freedom, of their civil liberties for the greater cause, as the president put it, of trying to prevent another attack? George W. Bush won every time, including last year's election when it was about the war in Iraq and greater war on terrorism.

The key now is can this president win this argument again? He is trying to reassert himself, not only reassert authority over this program, personal stake in this program, as you noted, saying he has reauthorized it many times and he will do so again. He's trying to reassert the power of his presidency by defending his use of very expanded presidential power.

KAGAN: And to LA, and Bill Schneider, one place the president is not winning right now, that is with the Patriot Act. He talked about what is happening with the Senate filibuster. The president saying, and kind of putting the senators who are filibustering, on the spot, saying many of those senators voted for the Patriot Act in 2001; and it's their responsibility to say why they're not supporting it at this time.

BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Oh, you bet. There was really a pretty strongly implied political threat there, that if senators filibuster or oppose the Patriot Act they will pay a price for it, he threatened or seemed to threaten, next year if they have to face the voters at the polls.

He specifically talked about senators from -- he said, New York. I wonder what he means by that? Los Angeles, where I am, or Las Vegas, which the home of city of the Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid.

Essentially saying if you prevent renewal of the Patriot Act you will have to answer to the voters. The president was very passionate and very angry about that, calling the failure to renew the Patriot Act, because of the filibuster, inexcusable.

KAGAN: Before the news conference we were talking about a different tone we heard in the president's speech last night, where he was acknowledging his critics and acknowledging different points of view. That only went so far, today reporters once again, trying something they've tried before to ask, have you made any mistakes. He wasn't taking the bait on that one really, today.

SCHNEIDER: No. He talked about failure to train adequately the civilian defense forces in Iraq to deal with the insurgency. He acknowledged that perhaps they didn't handle it as well as they could have, the aftermath in of the war in Iraq in 2003. But then he quickly said, we adjusted very quickly and we changed course. Yes, we made some mistakes but we corrected very, very quickly. I don't think there was a major acknowledgement there of any big mistake the president has made.

KAGAN: And, John, five speeches, one news conferences in 19 days, what's the next thing you will be looking for from this White House? KING: Well, the president will take a Christmas break, although he will be engaged over the course of this week trying to get the Patriot Act reauthorized by Congress and trying again to get a little bit more momentum out of what the administration believes is a very successful election season in Iraq.

What the president hopes to do between now and then, he hopes the Americans, as they disengage from Washington, from the political debate over, the holiday season, reflect a bit and give him a little more leeway heading to 2006. The president at one point quickly went through his list of domestic priorities, tax cuts, immigration reform, the Patriot Act, healthcare, for next year. That was his list last year. The Bush domestic agenda went off the tracks in 2005 and he needs to reestablish his political standing to get that agenda moving in 2006.

KAGAN: John King, Bill Schneider, Suzanne Malveaux, at the White House, thank you, to all of you for our coverage this morning.

Other news to get to in the minutes ahead, still to come, Israel has an ailing prime minister, a live report from Jerusalem on Ariel Sharon's prognosis.

Plus, Bono and Bill Gates, about as famous as you get, but it is their charity and good will that made them "Time" magazine's Persons of the Year. Coming up, my interview with Bono.

And you know that creepy feeling you sometimes get when an image or a sound is a little too familiar? Dr. Sanjay Gupta takes a look at what causes deja vu.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: We are past the half hour, I'm Daryn Kagan. Here's a look at what's happening.

President Bush has just wrapped up a nationally televised news conference. He defended the controversial program that allows the U.S. to eavesdrop on people with known links to terror groups. The president says he will continue to use the program as long as the nation faces a threat.

The military says it has freed eight former prominent members of Saddam Hussein's Baath Party. Among them, two detainees known as Dr. Germ and Mrs. Anthrax. A U.S. military official says the release took place Saturday as part of an ongoing review process. Some of the detainees have been held since the invasion of Iraq in March of 2003.

In Iraq, a jump in fuel prices sparked protests across the country. Under government approved increases, the price of gasoline, heating oil, and cooking fuel climbed from five to nine times what Iraqis had been paying. Government officials say the move is aimed at curbing a growing black market. Iraq's oil minister threatening to resign over that price hike.

Gas prices also on the rise here in the U.S.; The Lumburgh Survey says prices at the pump have risen more than 8 cents a gallon over the past two weeks; the first increase in three and a half months. The average price for a gallon of self-serve regular is now $2.21 and experts predict the new year will bring even higher prices at the pump.

In Northern California, more rain is expected this week after the season's first major storm caused some big problems in the region. Up to four inches of rain fell in parts of the San Francisco area. The storm knocked out power to tens of thousands of homes and businesses. It's also blamed for a series of crashes on area freeways.

Commuters in New York City could soon be in for a holiday nightmare, a shut down of the city's transit system. The Transit Workers Union is threatening a large-scale strike beginning tomorrow. Negotiators are trying to avert that shutdown.

Earlier today, the drivers for two private bus lines, that serve the city, walked off the job. Up to 7 million people use New York's buses and subway system every single day.

And back to San Francisco where Customs agents have seized more than 50 shipments of a counterfeit flu drug, Tamiflu. The anti-viral drug was being stockpiled in anticipation of a bird flu pandemic. Customs officials say the fake drugs were being shipped from Asian suppliers to people who placed orders over the Internet.

Doctors are predicting today that Israel's prime minister will make a full recovery from a stroke. Correspondent Guy Raz joins us now from Jerusalem, where Ariel Sharon has been hospitalized.

Guy, hello.

GUY RAZ, CNN INT'L. CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Daryn.

The 77-year-old prime minister suffered no permanent damage as a result of his stroke on Sunday night. His aides say he's been conducting the affairs of the state from his hospital bed, and if anything, Ariel Sharon's political prospects now look brighter than ever.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAZ (voice over): Ariel Sharon lives to govern another day. What appeared at first to be a major scare turned out not to be.

DR. TAMIR BEN-HUR, HADASSAH MEDICAL CENTER: I would like to make it clear that the prime minister, at no time point, never lost consciousness. There was no paralysis and in our medical terms, he was not confused.

RAZ: On the streets of Jerusalem, most Israelis seemed satisfied their prime minister would be just fine. At the age of 77, will Ariel Sharon's health dissuade some Israelis from re-electing him next march?

ITIEL BEN-CHAIM, JERUSALEM RESIDENT: On the contrary, I think we have to give him the next four or five years to do what he can do.

RAZ: Why?

Well, Nava Bibi, a self-described center left voter says Sharon's the only real grownup capable of running a government filled with political lightweights.

NAVA BIBI, JERUSALEM RESIDENT: We need him now more than ever. He knows that and because of that, he will overcome it.

RAZ (on camera): Ariel Sharon is this country's perennial political survivor. He's fought in almost every major war. He was almost killed in one of those wars. He's buried two wives and one son, and he's outlived nearly every single one of his political rivals.

(Voice over): Historian Michael Oren says it's part of what makes Sharon appealing to voters.

MICHAEL OREN, SHALEM CENTER: I think it's implicit in the Israeli political debate that here is a man who will not be standing in office probably in another 10 years. That really this is his last great show on the Israel political stage.

I think that's been an important factor here. I think that has been an important factor playing in Sharon's favor. People want to utilize Sharon's presence in history while they still can.

RAZ: All polls suggest Sharon's new centrist party, Adema (ph) will take the lion's share of seats in the next general election. There's no doubt his political rivals are quietly eyeing this hospital ward, preparing perhaps for the moment, when they can finally grasp the reins of political power.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RAZ: Daryn, that may not happen any time soon. Ariel Sharon's aides are reporting the prime minister is already making jokes about his political opponents who have been writing his obituary -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Guy, live from Jerusalem, thank you.

We going to look at medical news just ahead. Coming up, have you ever heard that feeling, you've heard this all before, we're not talking about the newscast, but we're talking about that deja vu feeling. And there is actually a medical explanation deja vu. Dr. Sanjay Gupta will explore those possibilities just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Ever feel like you have that been there, done that, that familiar feeling in an unfamiliar place. It could be triggered by irregular brain activity or a particular sight or sound. Senior Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta examines the science behind deja vu in our "Daily Dose" of health.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Many of us have been struck by it, that uncanny feeling that you've been in a room or place or situation before, but to just know you haven't. It's deja vu, the literal meaning, it's French for "already seen".

ALAN BROWN, PSYCHOLOGIST: Deja vu, at its essence is an illusion of familiarity, except it's a very intense illusion.

GUPTA: Some think they are signals from past life or hauntings of the supernatural. But researchers say that's unlikely.

BROWN: The amount of scientific credibility might surprise people.

GUPTA: Alan Brown has been studying deja vu and the people who experience it for years.

BROWN: Deja vu experience tends to peek around the late teens to early 20s and then tapers off.

GUPTA: Also more likely to feel it, those with higher level of education or income, liberals more than conservatives, and people who travel more. But what triggers deja vu?

BROWN: There's probably a lot of different ways that you could have a deja vu experience, sort of like, there's a number of different ways you can have a stomach ache.

GUPTA: One explanation might come from a small group of epileptics who experience deja vu immediately before a seizure. Scientists have traced the seizures to the brain's frontal lobe, the area responsible for brain's familiarity. It may be that irregular activity in that part of the brain causing deja vu.

Another theory involves how information gets from your eyes and ears to the brain. Usually the signal travels at the same rate, to the millisecond, but sometimes they may be way out of sync.

BROWN: Occasionally, one of the paths may have an event occur, a neurological event occur where it slows it down slightly.

GUPTA: Causing you to think you felt something before, and you have, but just milliseconds before. Another approach is implicit memory interpretation.

(On camera): Say you walk into a room, like the one behind me, you get that strange overwhelming feeling of inexplicable familiarity. What you don't realize, that lamp was the same lamp that was in your grandmother's living room when you were four years old. That small lamp, not the entire situation has triggered deja vu.

(Voice over): It's not always an object, sometimes sense or sounds.

BROWN: Information does get in often under our radar, and it plants itself. And we react later in ways that surprise us.

GUPTA: So, if you feel like you've ever seen this piece before, you might have, or it just might be deja vu, deja vu, deja vu....

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: And we know you've heard this before but we'll remind you anyway, to get your "Daily Dose" of health on-line. You'll find the latest medical news, health library, the address is cnn.com/health/health/health.

Up next, my interview with Bono, one of "Time" magazine's persons of the year.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: They are rich and they are famous but their efforts to help the world's poor, earned Bill and Melinda Gates and Bono the title of "Time" magazine Person of the Year.

The Gates have built the world's biggest charity and rock star Bono helped lea the fight for debt relief for poor nations.

The magazine says the three were chosen for, quote, "making mercy smarter and hope strategic" and then daring the rest of us to follow.

I had a chance to travel to Africa with Bono in may of 2002 and more recently I sat down with him to talk about his mission and his passion for fighting AIDS and poverty. Here now, is part of that interview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BONO: (INAUDIBLE) CNN's coverage of Africa enormously. I see what's happening in Africa as kind of adventure, more than a burden. I would like to see it described that way. You have this extraordinary continent, this shining continent, beautiful people, royal people. They look so striking, Africans. This is their, you know, their hour of need.

KAGAN: Not necessarily what is covered but perhaps how it's covered, present it in a different way?

BONO: Look, trying to get Africa on the news, let's just stick with that for a second, I understand that people are burned out seeing images of flies buzzing around children. And, you know, the despair of lives, right at the end of their tether.

But there are people, you know, there are people living inside those images. We certainly have to remind ourselves of that, just on AIDS and malaria; it's 6,000 people dying everyday of a mosquitoes bite. As well as a preventable, curable disease like AIDS. That's 120,000 people every month. That's not on the news.

KAGAN: One of the favorite stories I like to tell about our trip, that we took three years ago, almost to the day was --

BONO: We very nearly didn't come home then.

KAGAN: Yet, here we are.

BONO: Yes.

KAGAN: That people in Africa don't know who you are.

BONO: That's one of the great attractions for Africa, for me, is I really get to forget that I'm in band. I really like it. Somebody said I walk differently, you know, because I like to think I'm immune, you know, to people looking at me or staring at me, but I mustn't be because --

KAGAN: It would be impossible with all the attention and all.

BONO: I think I've gotten used to it, but maybe I haven't because I know in Africa, it does bring out another side of me. I shouldn't say this. I have gotten so much more from Africa and Africans than I could ever give.

KAGAN: Do you get extra fascination or satisfaction out of picking causes or people that don't have a voice?

BONO: No. I just want to take issues because I get a lot of people coming up to me and saying, love your cause. I don't think what's happening in Africa with AIDS in particular, and just the poverty and despair there, is a cause. I think it's an emergency.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: And on that note, Bono says he was humbled to be named one of "Time" magazine's persons of the year.

Time to get some weather, person of the year. Chad Myers put in his time with all the hurricanes and such.

(WEATHER FORECAST)

KAGAN: I'm Daryn Kagan. International news is up next. Stay tuned for tuned for "YOUR WORLD TODAY." Jonathan Mann and Zain Verjee will be along after a quick break.

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