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American Morning

New York State Transit Strike; Judge on Secret Court Overseeing Wiretaps Quits

Aired December 21, 2005 - 08:32   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Getting back to our top story now, the New York State transit strike that we've been reporting on. It's the height of rush hour. Let's see if people are making out any better on the second day without any subways, without any buses and with a lot of headaches.
Allan Chernoff is live for us. He's at the Brooklyn Bridge. That's one of main gateways to Manhattan, where a lot of people have been hoofing it, shall we say, Allan this morning?

ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They're working that shoe leather, no question, Rick. We've got thousands of people right now just streaming across the Brooklyn Bridge. You don't normally see this kind of traffic any time during the year, walking over the Brooklyn Bridge, but people just doing what they have to do in order to get to work. This is a city of hard workers, and we've had people coming across the bridge from before dawn, but now, it is really crowded.

And keep in mind, lots of people aren't just walking to the bridge. They have to get right side to the bridge, because there are only a few neighborhoods, residential neighborhoods, right near the actual Manhattan bridge. So one person I spoke with earlier actually came in from Staten Island. She got a ride all across Brooklyn, had her roller blades. She was then planning to skate up to 34th Street. People doing whatever they have to do. Overall, people just taking the strike in stride.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's a lot of people walking over. My husband was real concerned, saying don't talk to anybody! But you know, we're all in the same boat. We're all in the same position together, and there is a lot of people just trying to get to work and go about their business.

CHERNOFF: Do you mind the strike?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely not. I'm getting to work faster than I usually would.

CHERNOFF: Get out of here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, man, the E-train?

I'm getting to work a lot faster than I normally would. Keep striking!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHERNOFF: That's certainly something not the transit workers would like to hear. But nonetheless, we don't have any signs of this strike ending today, tomorrow, any time soon. The two sides do not have any talks scheduled. A spokesperson told me just a little while ago, a spokesperson for the Metropolitan Transit Authority, said we are not moving here at all. So that's not very optimistic, Rick.

SANCHEZ: Well, I'll tell you, that e-train line, I really didn't get it, but it got quite a chuckle out of everybody here on the staff. So must be an inside thing.

Allan Chernoff, thanks so much for that report.

Soledad, over to you.

O'BRIEN: E-train is not the fastest train in the city, I think it's fair to say.

Thanks, Allan.

Let's get to this controversy over the president's use of wiretaps without warrants inside the U.S. A judge on the secret court that oversees those government wiretaps is quitting, and it's apparently in protest.

To talk about the potential political impact of the resignation, let's get to "Time" magazine reporter Mike Allen. He's in our Washington bureau this morning.

Mike, good morning. Nice to see you, as always.

MIKE ALLEN, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Good morning, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Judge Robertson has quit. He hasn't said officially why, but his colleagues say it's in protest. What do you think the impact, the fallout is, of his resignation?

ALLEN: Well, Soledad, the White House has said, even this morning, that they believe absolutely that they're on the winning side of this issue. You're going to hear them continue to argue the president believes he has the authority and responsibility to do what he can to detect and thwart attacks.

But, Soledad, to make a little news for you following up on your interview a few minutes ago with Senator Levin, officials on Capitol Hill say it is likely in late January, early February, there will a joint hearing looking into this by the Intelligence and Judiciary Committees of the Senate.

Lawmakers say that despite the continued White House point that they were informed, that they have grave concerns about whether that -- whether this program is proper and whether or not they were fully informed. As you know, some of them think that the reports were not specific enough, weren't really sure what was going on. The House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi, yesterday said that a few years ago, so I guess toward the beginning of this program, she wrote a letter expressing concerns about it to the administration. She also said she expressed those verbally. She's now asking to have the letter declassified. Soledad, to show you how many things that our government are classified, supposedly even the date that she wrote that letter is classified, so she's trying to get that released as well.

O'BRIEN: But you're saying that it's now likely that sometime in January or early February, there will be the hearings that Senator Carl Levin was just talking to us about, that he wants on our air? Does that mean there is more traction? He said it was early. He wasn't sure how much traction he had. Are you telling me there's more than five senators who are on board?

ALLEN: Soledad, the concern for the White House is they were hoping to, as you know, get started on a better foot in January. As you know, they were looking to start the year with a big victory in the confirmation of Judge Alito to the Supreme Court.

Now there is going to be this cloud of other issue hanging out. Republicans deeply involved in it said to me that he thinks it's going to wind up being kind of gray. Obviously that's better than having it look like the president tried to break the law, but it also is not the clean hit that they were hoping to start the year with. So I think what you'll see is Republicans increasingly trying to maneuver this into the president and protection versus Democrats and terrorism. Republican said to me this morning this is becoming a political story.

I think what he meant by that was that that is a potential advantage for the White House because they can make it look like the president is on the side of protecting the country. So what I think you'll see is Republicans increasingly pointing out other Democratic presidents who have relied on wiretapping, and I think you'll see them pointing to laws in other countries, other democracies, including France and Britain.

O'BRIEN: Let me stop you for a second, because I mean, everyone is talking about -- and we've heard now several times through the administration, that it was to protect national security, right? I mean, this was done, the president had authority to protect national security, but at the end of the day, isn't the $64,000 question, is this legal? Before worrying about why it's being done, is it legal?

ALLEN: No, you're exactly right. And Vice President Cheney said if you're talking to your Aunt Sadie in Paris, he's not interested. And you'll hear the White House maintaining that this was very limited, that if they do long-term monitoring and still go to the court that Judge Robertson resigned from, that it's only involving Al Qaeda, and it's only conversations outside the country.

But, Soledad, as you know, the front page of "The New York Times" reports this morning that perhaps through a technical glitch, that some of these conversations apparently were domestic, that they were exactly the kind of conversations the president said did not happen. He said in a news conferences the other day on your air, if you're calling from Houston to L.A. It's not monitored. Apparently that did happen because of today's technology. Even according to "The New York Times," not even the NSA can tell if things are exactly inside or outside the country.

So the White House still has not answered in a clear way why it was not possible retroactively to inform this court. And as you can see, this judge, who must know the law about the court better than others, according to "The Washington Post" report, expressed concerns that the court was not being used properly.

O'BRIEN: Mike Allen, I think this is obviously going to all continue well into the new year. Thanks for talking with us this morning. Appreciate it.

ALLEN: Have a great week, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Thank you. Likewise.

SANCHEZ: Saddam Hussein is back in court. Today's session wrapping up. In fact, it wrapped up about an hour ago. But not before some emotional testimony about some of the arrests. These are some of the pictures. Torture and executions after an attempt on Saddam Hussein's life 23 years ago.

Joining me now from Cleveland, Michael Scharf, a lawyer who helped trained the judges and the prosecutors and who's now a legal adviser, incidentally, to the court.

Let's start with Saddam Hussein. Two things were different this time. A, he showed up. B, he seemed subdued. What's is the significance of that?

PROF. MICHAEL SCHARF, CASE WESTERN RESERVE UNIV.: Well, he's still playing games, though, Rick. You notice that he, according to your broadcast earlier, asked the court if there could be a recess at 12:00 so that he could pray. And what he's doing here is trying to tell the people in Iraq that he's a religious figure, not just a former leader.

What's ironic is he led the Baathist during a secular movement when they got rid of religion in Iraq. The last 10 years, he brought religion back in in a desperate...

... what's ironic is he led the Baathists during a secular movement, when they got rid of religion in Iraq. In the last ten years, he brought religion back in in a desperate move to try to maintain power.

SANCHEZ: But why would a guy...

SCHARF: And now he's still playing the religious card, even during this trial.

SANCHEZ: Why would a guy who is on trial for his life be playing a religious card and give a hoot what they care about in the country? After all, if he does the wrong thing here legally, you know, he could be a goner!

SCHARF: Well, Saddam Hussein has two agendas. One is to try to get an acquittal, which is, I think, highly unlikely giving the mounting evidence against him. The second agenda is the same one that Slobodan Milosevic and other leaders who have been tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity have had and that is they want to resurrect their standing with their supporters.

And in this case, Saddam Hussein would really like to have the insurgency prevail. And so he's trying to get more and more support for the insurgency and show that he's the leader of the insurgency from inside the courtroom.

SANCHEZ: He didn't have an outburst today, but somebody else did. Barzai (ph) did, who's what, his brother-in-law, right?

SCHARF: Right.

SANCHEZ: Yes, he had an outburst and he argued with the judge before he started about the way he was being treated and everything on and the judge essentially told him, look, that's great, but you're going to have to take that up somewhere else. This is about this case and only this case. Is this part of the strategy that you're talking about where they want everyone to see that they're being, well, the victims in this case?

SCHARF: Well, part of it also is the outbursts are timed to distract the attention of the courtroom and the court of public opinion from some of the most compelling testimony. At the height of some of these really harrowing tales, all of a sudden one of the defendants will stand up and say I'm not being treated well.

Also, similar to that, the -- during the cross-examination, the defense counsel tried to make the point what was happening to this particular victim 23 years ago is no different than what's happening to people throughout Iraq under the new regime and during the U.S. occupation.

And so part of the defense strategy is to say that any president faced with an insurgency, faced with terrorist attacks, is going to treat his people this way and that Saddam Hussein shouldn't be prosecuted, no more than or less than George Bush or other leaders around the world.

SANCHEZ: This is a very important trial in terms of perception. In Iraq itself -- and let's just stay there if we possibly can -- how are Iraqis and how is the Arab world seeing this trial? Are they paying attention to the witnesses who are saying this man did some horrible things to me and my people and my family, or are they paying attention to Barzai and Saddam Hussein saying things like this isn't a fair trial? SCHARF: A couple of things are happening. First of all, they're paying attention to the trial as a whole. More people are watching this trial throughout Iraq -- they're crammed into buildings that have TV sets, they're listening to radio broadcasts -- than any other proceeding in the history of that country. They are paying attention.

Now, anecdotally, what we're hearing is that they are focusing more than we are in the West on what the witnesses are testifying about. In the West, we're focused more on Saddam Hussein's antics. And in the West, we often think that the judge is losing control of the courtroom. They're more used to this give and take. In the Iraqi system, there's a very boisterous approach that lawyers have in the courtroom. They're often yelling and shouting and that's perfectly normal and acceptable and is not seen as a judge losing control.

But they are focusing on the actual testimony. And today we heard some of the strongest testimony yet, and I think Sunnis who had been exposed to years of propaganda, where Saddam Hussein denied that these things ever occurred, are hearing from the word of the victims, for the first time, the terrible things that actually occurred.

SANCHEZ: So this is the victims' day in court? This is the Shias' day in court, so to speak?

SCHARF: Absolutely.

SANCHEZ: Michael Scharf, thanks so much. We certainly appreciate the information. The adviser in the Saddam Hussein trial, good enough to share some of that with us -- Soledad.

(WEATHER REPORT)

O'BRIEN: Still to come on AMERICAN MORNING, you wouldn't see them sold at any Wal-Mart in the United States, so why are gay marriage cards on the shelves of Wal-Mart's British counterpart? Some people say it's moral hypocrisy. We're going to explain, just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Elton John is a married man. He said I do with his partner of 12 years earlier today. The British pop star and David Furnish held a civil partnership ceremony in Windsor, England. That was just a couple of hours ago. There's a new British law that grants same-sex couples the same rights as married couples and it went into effect today.

The ceremony was a private affair. Only the parents of the couple attending. Later, though, a lavish reception. There are going to be more than 700 guests at Elton John's mansion, which is in Windsor.

And as gay and lesbian civil unions in England become legal, there are signs that wedding industry is adjusting to the new market. Retailers in Britain are meeting the demand for ways to celebrate these civil partnerships, but some of the changes are not going to make it here to the U.S. CNN's Jim Boulden has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM BOULDEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Now that civil partnerships or gay unions are legal in Britain, why not sell gay and lesbian wedding cards or commitment rings for the couple themselves? That's how Britain's second largest supermarket chain, ASDA, sees it.

ED WATSON, ASDA: It's delivering something that customers actually want and actually need. And there's a direct request from customers and also colleagues wanting same-sex wedding cards. We've actually delivered that.

BOULDEN: But ASDA is owned by Wal-Mart, long criticized for banning some magazines and books it feels will offend certain customers.

BRYAN ROBERTS, ANALYST: There's obviously, you know, some sort of self-appointed guardian of family values in the USA and it monitors very carefully the product that it puts into its stores so as not to offend some of its, you know, key customers. Observers from the U.K. obviously find contradiction that at the same time they can sell guns and ammunition.

BOULDEN (on camera): ASDA says it didn't seek permission from Wal-Mart to sell these gay weddings cards. They say it's a store-by- store decision and that 20 ASDAs will start selling these cards this week.

(voice-over): We don't know what they make of these pink and blue cards, addressed to "Mr. and Mr." or "Mrs. and Mrs." The company did not respond to our request for a comment. But it does have a policy of catering to local taste. A Wal-Mart in China, for instance, sells live turtles to be eaten by customers. And it hasn't interfered with ASDA selling skin magazines or stopped it from cutting prices of certain goods around holidays.

WATSON: Condom sales, I mean, we (INAUDIBLE) about the price of condoms sort of fairly recently. For Valentine's Day, we know condom sales go up. Over the Christmas period, what's interesting, is afterwards, the pregnancy testing kits, also the sales go up after Christmas, as well.

BOULDEN: It unlikely Elton John popped into Asda to pick up his wedding ring, but he might just get a few "Mr. and Mr." cards from there.

That could help boost sales for an Asda product unlikely to grace a Wal-Mart shelf any time soon.

Jim Boulden, CNN, Manchester, England.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Andy is "Minding Your Business" just ahead. What you got coming up?

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Soledad, GM's problems are pretty familiar to us, but now it looks like it's the end of an era for the troubled automaker, coming up next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Japanese automaker may be moving in on the world's biggest car company. So number one may be number two soon. The market responds to disappointing news from General Motors once again.

Boy, it's in the news a lot lately about this kind of thing, Andy.

SERWER: Yes, and I'll give you guesses as to what the Japanese automaker's name is.

SANCHEZ: Begins with a 'T,' ends with an 'a.'

SERWER: You got it. Seventy years, that's how long GM has reigned as the world's largest automaker, but it could be coming to an end. Just the other day in Tokyo, Toyota announced its production goals for 2006: 9.06 million vehicles. GM doesn't announce the same kind of number, but analysts say it's around 9.08 million, but that's kind of a rounding error when you're talk about 20,000 vehicles. Anything can happen over the next 13 months. So it could well be that GM sees its position as number one to Toyota. Toyota passed Ford in 2003 to become the number-two automaker.

And in the U.S., their sales are up 10 percent. Fords's are -- GM's are down 3.7 percent. Toyota building that big facility down in San Antonio. You down in Texas probably know about that, where they're looking to make 200,000 trucks annually. That made GM stock tumble yesterday to its lowest level since 1987, down below $20. And actually the stock is really where it was 40 years ago, truly amazing. The stock is down 50 percent this year, Soledad.

As for the overall markets, not a good day. We did get up in trading yesterday, even with the transit strike. A lot of red ink. And actually trading volume was pretty normal, especially for this time of year. We basically had the same number of people down in the exchange and in the financial services business as usual. I think we're going to see things peter out as the week ends, which we usually do because of this time of year, but I think people really want to experiment to see whether they could get in yesterday and they did. Now as we get Friday and toward Christmas, people are going to kind of keep it at home.

SANCHEZ: Yes, why not take Friday off. If you're not coming in Saturday, you might as well.

SERWER: I like that. Can we do that? Who can we talk to about that?

SANCHEZ: Soledad says you can stay home!

SERWER: That's Terrific.

O'BRIEN: But I'm not the mayor, so don't listen to what I say on that.

Well, you know. There's only a few days left until the end of the year, which means there's all sorts of things you need to do with your taxes right now to make a difference come April.

Coming up tomorrow on AMERICAN MORNING, we've got some last- minute things you can do to maximize your 2005 tax return. We begin at 6:00 a.m. right here on AMERICAN MORNING.

And take a look at this. Let's show this picture. Take a look at this. There it is.

That's the pope. Kind of looks a little like Santa Claus, doesn't he?

SERWER: That's a nice cape.

O'BRIEN: He arrived a little bit for his weekly -- thank you. I'm sure he appreciates that. Weekly audience at St. Peter Square today. He's looking a little bit like St. Nick. The pope was wearing this red velvet cap trimmed with white fur as he rode in the pope- mobile. They say to keep his head warm, not so that he can look like Santa Claus.

Coming up in just a moment, we're going to take a look at the day's top stories, including a popular surgery among Asian women is now raising concern about the pressures to conform to Western standards of beauty.

Stay with us. You're watching AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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