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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Domestic Spying Fallout; Federal Failure in Hurricane Rebuilding Effort; The Clear Act; Extreme Weather Of 2005 Possibly Related To Global Warming; Professor Pushes For Longer Fence On Border;
Aired December 28, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone.
Tonight, new developments in the surveillance scandal. President Bush's orders to spy on Americans without a court order could hurt the government case against certain terror suspects. We're live in Washington and Crawford, Texas.
A guilty plea in the Enron investigation that could have a major impact in the cases against Kenneth Lay and Jeffrey Skilling. The details ahead.
From hurricanes to floods to unbearable heat, 2005 was one for the record weather books. But you may be surprised to find out why we're seeing this extreme weather. Our special report coming up.
Plus, some familiar corporate names guilty of taking jobs away from American citizens and exporting them to cheap foreign labor markets. We'll have the worst of the worst in 2005.
We begin tonight with what could turn into a serious unforeseen blow to our nation's war against radical Islamist terrorists. Defense lawyers for some of the nation's highest profile terror defendants are threatening to take the Bush administration to court over its secret U.S. spying program. These attorneys hope the Bush administration's program to prevent new terrorist attacks on U.S. soil will lead to freedom for their clients, key al Qaeda terror suspects.
Jeanne Meserve reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Muslim scholar Ali al-Timimi is serving a life sentence after being convicted for inciting his followers to wage war against the United States overseas. His lawyer is going to federal court so he can try to determine if some of the evidence used against al-Timimi was developed from National Security Agency wiretaps conducted without a warrant, and if any evidence favorable to his client was withheld.
JONATHAN TURLEY, ATTORNEY FOR ALI AL-TIMIMI: The government's not allowed to do a type of legal Three Card Monte where you have to guess where the evidence is, under this card or that card. It has to turn over all the cards. MESERVE: Truck driver Iyman Faris is serving 20 years in a maximum security prison after pleading guilty to plotting to bring down the Brooklyn Bridge as an al Qaeda agent. His attorney says he also will be asking a federal court to force the Justice Department to tell him how the NSA program was used in his case.
Government officials familiar with the program have confirmed that NSA eavesdropping helped authorities move against Faris. A civil suit against President Bush for illegal wiretapping could be in the works.
DAVID SMITH, LAWYER FOR IYMAN FARIS: I think there's a good likelihood -- I mean, I believe that he would -- he would be happy to bring such a lawsuit.
MESERVE: But legal experts who agree with the White House that the NSA program was constitutional and legal do not believe it will undercut the government's terrorism prosecutions.
DAVID RIVKIN, FMR. JUSTICE DEPT. OFFICIAL: I really do not see how any of the criminal convictions that have taken place so far -- and there's other indictments -- would be undermined by that. So I -- I mean, I would call it fishing, I would call it grandstanding.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE: The first of the challenges could come within the next few weeks when a lawyer for one man charged along with Jose Padilla is expected to file a motion in Florida. Padilla, of course, the enemy combatant charged with terrorism last month. But that is likely to be just the beginning -- Christine.
ROMANS: All right. Jeanne Meserve. Thank you, Jeanne.
Meantime, the White House is once again tonight defending the domestic spying operation. Bush administration officials appear confident that this program will hold up to any future court challenge.
Dana Bash is with the president tonight in Crawford, Texas.
Hi, Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Christine.
Well, the White House is not saying much about this at all. What they're doing is referring us back to now the much-referred-to briefing early last week by the attorney general and the deputy director of national intelligence, where they went through what they say is their legal underpinning, the reason they think that this secret order is actually legal and legally sound.
But broadly, the White House will not talk about specific cases, they say, pending cases, at all. All they will say, according to White House spokesman Trent Duffy is, "I don't think it should serve as any surprise that defense attorneys are looking at ways to represent their clients." He said that's what defense attorneys do.
So keeping it pretty broad there, Christine. The bottom line is, since the president did admit that the program exists, and he did that very generally almost two weeks ago at this point, the White House has been very careful not to talk about operational details, even to talk specifically about what kind of repercussions it could have on things like pending cases.
It's going to be very interesting to see how the White House shifts, if right now they're just not commenting because they're coasting during the holiday season, or if it will change once the president gets back to Washington and, more importantly, when Congress gets back to Washington and they start looking into how they're going to have those hearings that the Republican chairman of the Judiciary Committee in the Senate promised to have -- Christine.
ROMANS: All right. Dana Bash. Thank you, Dana.
While this spying controversy intensifies, House Democrats say the Homeland Security Department isn't doing its job. Thirteen Democrats on the Homeland Security Committee released a report accusing the DHS of failing to live up to its own promises.
That report details 33 promises, including the creation of a national database of our most vulnerable buildings and transportation systems, radiation monitoring at our nations borders, airports and seaports, and tracking foreigners and fingerprints and photographs as they enter and leave the country. The DHS responded to the report, saying it focused on meeting a threat that is constantly evolving.
The department is also expected to complete the U.S. visit program to track foreigners entering this country at almost 300 locations by the end of the year.
Two U.S. soldiers died in Afghanistan today in Afghanistan's Kunar province. A U.S. soldier was killed in a roadside bombing. Two other U.S. soldiers were wounded. The Taliban says it carried out the attack.
Another U.S. soldier died today in a vehicle accident near Kandahar in southern Afghanistan.
More than 50 U.S. troops have died in Afghanistan so far this year. This makes 2005 the bloodiest year for U.S. forces in Afghanistan since the U.S.-led invasion there in 2001. A top Taliban commander this week threatened an increase in attacks against U.S.-led forces in Afghanistan.
In Iraq today, Sunni residents took to the streets for continued protests over what they believe to be unfair parliamentary elections. Preliminary results show Shiite political groups leading in the vote so far. The U.N. said today that it believes the elections were fair, but in an exclusive interview with CNN, former Iraqi interim prime minister Ayad Allawi said he believes there were huge voting irregularities and abuse.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AYAD ALLAWI, FMR. IRAQI PRIME MINISTER: There were gross intimidations throughout the country, and especially in certain provinces in the south and Baghdad, too, preceding the elections. There were assassinations. The most unfortunate thing is...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: Also in Iraq today, at least nine prisoners and guards were killed in a fierce gun battle at a high security prison in Baghdad. It began when prisoners attempted a jail break.
In the U.S. tonight, new charges of incompetence and mismanagement in the Gulf Coast rebuilding effort. Four months after the Katrina disaster, victims say private contractors have succeeded where the government has failed.
Sean Callebs is live tonight in New Orleans with that story -- Sean.
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Christine.
Indeed, some people outside this area sometimes forget it wasn't just the New Orleans area that was hammered by Katrina. Also to the east, much of Mississippi's coastline was also devastated.
We want to take you to Jackson County, Mississippi, and show you some of the tons of debris still scattered along that area. Now, right after the storm came through, the Army Corps of Engineers signed an agreement to clear both public land -- that would be roads, park, cemeteries, things of that nature -- as well as all private property, homeowners' property of all the debris, trees and the remnants of wrecked homes.
Well, now four months after Katrina rolled through, the Corps says it did clear about 90 percent of the public land but not any of the private land. Jackson County authorities are simply fed up.
So they did what they felt they had to. They fired the Corps of Engineers. And at the start of the new year, private contractors using federal money will moving in to begin cleaning up all the mess from private homeowners' land.
Now, really, what makes this more difficult for Jackson County, where Pascagoula is located, if they look right across the bay, they can see Harrison County, where Biloxi is. And it's a much different story there.
Not only has much of the public area been cleaned up, but a lot of the homes have been cleaned up there as well. Harrison County had the same option that Jackson County had after the storm came through. They could have signed on with FEMA and had the Army Corps of Engineers initiate the cleanup process.
But Harrison County chose not to. They did use federal money, but they hired private contractors. And Jackson County says they're very disappointed by the work they got so far.
The Army Corps of Engineers says they have done a tremendous job moving a mountain of debris, and they say their problems were compounded because they have to get written permission to go on private property land to begin moving all of that debris off. But still, many homeowners there, Christine, said they signed these private releases a long time ago, and they wish the Corps would have done more.
We're going to have a lot more on this story this evening at 10:00 Eastern on "AC 360."
ROMANS: All right. Sean Callebs in New Orleans.
Thank you so much for that, Sean.
Officials in Texas and Oklahoma fear the death toll will climb higher after massive wind-fueled wildfires swept across the states. Texas officials say four people are dead after these fast-moving grass fires swept through more than 100 buildings yesterday, and at least three other people remain missing tonight in the town of Cross Plains, Texas. The fire scorched more than 10,000 acres before being brought under control. They're still smoldering today.
Also tonight, northern California bracing for fierce new Pacific storms. These storms are set to clobber the San Francisco Bay area with torrential rains, snow and powerful winds. Forecasters say three separate Pacific storms will hit the California coast over the next five days.
There's dangerous winter weather on the other side of the Atlantic as well. Northern Europe has been hit by intense winter storms and brutal cold. Snowfall so heavy in parts of France overnight, motorists were left stranded on roadways and forced to sleep in their cars. Emergency personnel simply couldn't rescue stranded motorists, so they fanned out to offer food and water instead.
In southwest England today, residents are being urged to stay home after a freak blizzard. Heavy snow has made roads virtually impassable. Italy, Croatia, the Czech Republic and Austria have also been hit by dangerous winter storms. Forecasters are warning of more snow and frigid temperatures across Europe the next two days.
Still ahead, a major development in the Enron investigation. We'll have the latest.
State and local officials fighting for the power and money to battle our broken border crisis. Now they may soon get what they want. We'll have that story next.
Then, companies you know taking jobs away from Americans and exporting them to cheap foreign labor markets. Some are even bragging about it. We'll tell you which companies are the worst offenders this year. And much more on the wild weather of 2005. All sorts of weather records were smashed by devastating storms, but there's a reason behind all of this meteorological madness. Our special report coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: Tonight, a major development in the massive Enron accounting scandal. The company's former top accountant, Richard Causey, pleaded guilty to fraud and agreed to testify against his former bosses. Causey will spend up to seven years in jail for his role in the multibillion-dollar fraud.
He was supposed to go on trial in three weeks with Enron founder Ken Lay and its former CEO, Jeff Skilling. The judge quickly delayed the trial for Lay and Skilling for another two weeks. Both of them are charged with multiple counts of conspiracy and fraud.
A total of 23 Enron executives are charged in the scandal that led to the company's bankruptcy four years ago.
Former House majority leader Tom DeLay is making progress toward getting charges against him dismissed. The highest criminal court in Texas is ordering prosecutors to respond within one week to a request by DeLay's attorney that the charges be dropped. That appeals court is made up of all Republicans.
DeLay stepped aside as House majority leader in September after being indicted on money laundering and conspiracy charges, charges he has vehemently denied. Time is an issue for DeLay if he wants to regain the majority leadership position before new leadership is elected next month.
Tonight, state and local officials trying desperately to win new powers in the fight against illegal immigration. They say the federal government has completely dropped the ball on this crisis, and they're pinning their hopes on a new provision called the Clear Act which would give them significant control over illegal alien enforcement.
Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Twenty-eight- year-old Brian Jackson was a newlywed. The Dallas police officer was shot and killed in November by an illegal alien.
Juan Lescano (ph) had been detained twice by local police in the previous two months. Both times he was released under a policy that prohibits local officer from enforcing federal immigration law.
Representative Charlie Norwood says his amendment to the House immigration reform bill would change that.
REP. CHARLES NORWOOD (R), GEORGIA: Our bill makes certain that, without a doubt, they are authorized to help the federal government, just like they're authorized to help the federal government catch drug dealers, or across interstate lines when you have a kidnapping, for example. They have the authority.
SYLVESTER: Norwood points to the numbers. There are only 2,000 federal immigration agents charged with tracking down 500,000 illegal aliens who have been ordered to leave the country. Of those, 100,000 of them are wanted criminals.
IRA MEHLMAN, FED. FOR AMERICAN IMMIGRATION REFORM: What we need is some kind of cooperative plan where state and local governments do their part, when they come across somebody in the country illegally, they detain them and turn them over to the federal authorities.
SYLVESTER: Norwood's amendment also provides local communities with resources for detention, but the plan is opposed by some Latino groups who argue illegal aliens who are witnesses or victims of crimes will be less willing to come forward. Norwood faced opposition in the House but he acknowledges the real battle is yet to come.
NORWOOD: We hope that they will try to make sure the Clear Act is in the Senate bill. If it is or if it isn't, it's going to be a knife fight in the conference committee to make sure it stays in.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: And Representative Norwood says the problem with illegal immigration is the fault of Congress. He says lawmakers have not done enough to insist laws are being enforced and they have not provided necessary funding.
So his goal for the new year is to make sure that the final immigration bill has real teeth and actually does something to fix our broken borders -- Christine.
ROMANS: Lisa, you've been deconstructing this House immigration bill for us this week. There is just so much there, so many examples of what's going wrong in immigration policy.
What do you have for us tomorrow?
SYLVESTER: Well, we're going to take a look at two proposals offered by Representative John Shadegg of Arizona. One that would stiffen penalties for document fraud. This is a major problem not only for illegal immigration, but also terrorism. And we'll take a look at some of his ideas of what to do about the fast-growing crime of human smuggling.
ROMANS: All right. Lisa Sylvester. Thank you very much, Lisa.
The European Union today launched a rocket carrying the first in a series of Galileo navigational satellites. This new European satellite program is intended to end the United States monopoly of global positioning technology. That's the tracking system currently controlled by the United States military.
Galileo was launched over the strong objections of the United States. One of the major investors in this project is communist china, who will gain access to this extremely valuable military tool once Galileo is operational.
Communist China tonight is also blasting U.S. efforts to place sanctions on six of its companies accused of selling military technology to Iran. The U.S. says it has information that these companies sold technology to Iran that could be used to build weapons of mass destruction.
Beijing, in a statement, amazingly says Washington's move is not "beneficial" to China-U.S. cooperation in stopping the spread of nuclear weapons.
Still ahead, corporate America taking jobs away from hard-working Americans and sending them to cheap foreign labor markets. Some of the companies you know so well are the worst offenders. Our special report next.
And tracking treacherous weather. There's a good reason 2005 was filled with record-breaking hurricanes, earthquakes and other deadly storms. The answer may lie not in the sky but in the ocean. We'll take a closer look coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: Over the past year, this broadcast has documented the disdain corporate America appears to have for our nation's middle class. Corporate executives almost gloat about cutting U.S. middle class jobs and exporting them overseas. And as our politicians stood by and watched, hundreds of thousands of U.S. jobs were lost this year to cheap overseas labor markets.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS (voice-over): Microsoft hiring 3,000 more workers in India. JPMorgan Chase hiring another 4,500 workers there. Intel investing $800 million to expand research and development in India. Wachovia cutting an estimated 4,000 jobs and relocating most to India.
UBS next year will open its first office in Hyderabad with 500 people next year. And Cisco declaring it would like to become a Chinese company.
About half of all new businesses are generating jobs not just in America but overseas.
MARK HEESEN, VENTURE CAPITALIST: It is a global international economy. And if you don't as a businessman understand that from a venture capitalist perspective, you're simply not going to get funded.
ROMANS: Even state governments are sending contracts overseas, they say, to reduce costs.
STUART ANDERSON, NATIONAL FOUNDATION FOR AMERICAN POLICY: The problem becomes, if you overpay for services unnecessarily, that's less money that states would have for either tax relief or education or job training.
ROMANS: But many taxpayers are outraged that their taxes are hiring foreign workers instead of Americans. Forty-one states this year considered outlawing outsourcing state contract work overseas. Seven states now limit outsourcing.
Taxpayers even more outraged that hundreds of thousands of their tax returns were shipped overseas for preparation, raising serious concerns about taxpayer privacy. After months of complaints, the IRS this month proposed regulations requiring taxpayer consent before their tax information is sent overseas.
But even as the IRS moves forward, government outsourcing is eating away at our military base. Consider that the Bradley fighting vehicle will no longer be made by a U.S. company.
TOM BUFFENBARGER, INTERNATIONAL ASSOC. OF MACHINISTS AND AEROSPACE: We're at war today, and giving away our ability to manufacture the means to wage it and defend ourselves is so contradictory.
ROMANS: From apparel to electronics to call centers, companies are eager to outsource any jobs they can, prompting the Commerce Department to finally release a 12-page report looking at the impact of offshoring on American jobs, a $300,000 government analysis that was suspect.
RICHARD MCCORMACK, MANUFACTURING & TECHNOLOGY: I'm not sure if it's a lie or it's just a cover-up or they won't answer those questions. So I don't know. I asked the questions but they didn't answer them. So what it is, is 12 pages of not breaking any ground on a really important issue.
ROMANS: Breaking no new ground, even as outsourcing trends do.
The latest, nearsourcing, exporting American jobs to Central America instead of China or India. All made possible thanks to the passage of CAFTA.
JUAN CARLOS PEREIRA, PRONICARAGUA: We think we can be competitive in areas like call centers and contact centers.
ROMANS: Research firm Datamonitor estimates call center work stations in Central America and Latin America will double to more than 730,000 in the next two years. Outsourcing, nearsourcing, whatever the term for sending American jobs overseas, it's not a guaranteed win for companies.
One study this year found satisfaction rates plummeting from 79 percent to 62 percent. Why? Poor quality offshore companies and cost savings less than expected, as this company we visited this year found out.
PAUL ADELBERG, HAYWARD INDUSTRIES: Word of advice to companies, they better do their homework. And I would also venture to say, because it seems like the in thing to do for some manufacturers, in a lot of cases I would say that companies are making a big mistake by going to China or offshore manufacturing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: And some say 2005 may turn out to be a year of diminished returns for the corporate managers who've sent those jobs abroad. After three years of aggressive outsourcing, American training managers are increasingly giving more responsibility to managers on the ground with mixed results. Yet, experts still expect the rush to outsource will continue in 2006. And, of course, we'll continue to follow this issue.
And that brings us to tonight's poll. Do you believe the federal government should impose restrictions on how many jobs American corporation can export to cheap foreign labor markets? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll bring you the results later in the broadcast.
Still ahead, hurricanes, floods, wildfires, earthquakes. 2005 was one for the record books, but there could be a good reason for all this wild weather. Our special report is next.
Then, plans to build a partial fence on our border with Mexico. We'll talk with one former INS official who says that just won't cut it.
And we'll tell you about the brand new security tactic at our nation's airports. Here's a hint: it's all talk.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: 2005 was a year of severe and dangerous weather. In a moment, we'll talk with one weather expert how long this trend could continue.
But first, here are some other stories we're following tonight.
Enron's former top accountant could help the government prosecute Enron founder Ken Lay and former CEO Jeff Skilling. Richard Causey today pleaded guilty to fraud and agreed to testify against his former bosses. Causey will spend up to seven years in jail for his role in the massive accounting scandal.
New York City's 34,000 transit workers will soon vote on a tentative contract deal reached with the Metropolitan Transit Authority. Union leaders overwhelmingly approved that deal last night. The contract dispute led to a three-day strike that forced millions of people to find another way around New York City.
Marriott is informing 200,000 timeshare employees and customers that their personal information may be missing. The company says computer tapes holding backup data on banking and Social Security numbers are missing from an office in Florida. Marriott says it has no idea when those tapes disappeared.
And health researchers are taking Vitamin D every day. They say taking it can cut the risk of developing cancer in half. A review of 63 medical studies found that taking 1,000 international units of Vitamin D can help ward off several common cancers, including breast and colon cancers.
2005 is one on the books now for the busiest hurricane season on record, a season that caused billions of dollars of damage and thousands of deaths. Add rainstorms, devastating floods, heavy snowfall, intense wildfires, deadly earthquakes, and the past year was one of cataclysmic weather patterns.
Kitty Pilgrim takes a look at how Mother Nature's wrath ruled 2005.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the news in the past year, the weather was the lead, again, again and again. A July heat wave pushed temperatures to break more than 200 daily records. And a new record of seven days in a row of 125 degrees in California.
If the year seemed hot, the numbers prove it out. NOAA reports 2005 was the second-warmest year on record. That was without an El Nino effect. There was no such El Nino event in 2005, but rather, unusual warmth across large parts of the globe throughout the year.
The 2005 hurricane season had 26 named storms, 7 Category 3 or more, three Category 5: Katrina, Rita, Wilma. And record rainstorms in the Northeast in October.
DR. KEVIN TRENBERTH, NATIONAL CENTER FOR ATMOSPHERIC RESEARCH: Global warming produces a little bit of extra heat. And so where does the heat go? Part of it goes into raising temperature. That's especially true if the ground is dry. But if it's wet, a lot of it goes into evaporating moisture. It puts more moisture into the atmosphere. And that moisture has to go somewhere, it gets caught up in weather systems.
PILGRIM: That means it rains and snows a lot harder than it would otherwise. Monsoons in Mumbai this year rained 37 inches in one day. The blizzard of 2005 put a record two feet of snow across New England last January. It was the snowiest January on record in Boston.
But in Southern Africa, there was severe drought, the worst drought in decades in the Amazon and in parts of Europe. Even if it wasn't technically weather or climate change, natural disasters like earthquakes in Pakistan took the headlines. To add to the concern, scientists confirm the ozone is thinning.
The ocean temperatures are rising, the Arctic ice is melting. All thought to be directly attributable to global warming.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Global surface temperatures have been steadily rising, but three times faster since 1976. And another sign of global warmth, in 2005, a new record was set for the lowest Arctic sea ice since they began monitoring it more than three decades ago. Now scientists say the warming trend, if it continues, will increase the erratic weather patterns, Christine.
ROMANS: Indeed, quite a year for weather and natural disaster. Kitty Pilgrim, thanks.
Well, for more on the extreme weather we're joined by Jim St. John, he's a research scientist at Georgia Tech's School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences. Welcome to the program. Jim, so all this extreme weather, is it a sign of global warming? How much is global warming in the equation here?
JIM ST. JOHN, RESEARCH SCIENTIST, GEORGIA TECH: Well, that's the big question and I don't know that we really have a direct answer for that. More time and more research is needed to determine that.
But certainly things seem to have been warming up and certainly sea surface temperature increases would either result in more hurricanes or more intense hurricanes. And the evidence is that they've been going toward more intense rather than more in number.
ROMANS: You point out that while we have seen intensity increased here, we don't have a really long history for studying hurricanes. We don't know if this is a blip in an overall much longer pattern, or exactly where we are, do we?
ST. JOHN: That's exactly correct. We only really have a good 50, 55 years of hurricane data. We do have some data from before that, but we don't know how complete it is.
Many of the people who forecast these events for a living believe that we're just at the top of a 30-to-40 year cycle at the moment. And it's not due to global warming. There is a vigorous debate in the scientific community about that.
ROMANS: If we are seeing global warming, that could be the reason why they are intensifying the magnitude of these hurricanes. At the same time, the devastation and the death tolls are rising, maybe not because of Mother Nature, but maybe because of what humans are doing. We're moving to more populated areas and sort of putting ourselves in the path of destruction, aren't we?
ST. JOHN: Well that's exactly right. There's many more people living in areas that are susceptible to tropical cyclone damage. On the other hand, we're getting much better at predicting them. So the trick is, as we saw the system fail somewhat in New Orleans, is to get the people to move out before the storms hit.
ROMANS: Let's talk about earthquakes. The tsunami, of course, exactly a year ago. You point out that if you don't have those, you have a dead planet. Those are the signs of a living planet. And we have to live with these things. They are dangerous and devastating, of course, but this is a matter of life on earth. ST. JOHN: That's exactly correct. We have earthquakes because of plate tectonics. Plane tectonics are necessary to process biogeochemical cycles to the rock cycle. When our plates quit moving, our planet will die because all the CO2 in our atmosphere will end up in limestone and the ocean bottoms. That's what happened to Mars, that's why Mars doesn't have an atmosphere.
ROMANS: What I suppose we can do even if some of these things are inevitable, it's technology and communications. We can try to learn how to get out of way. I guess in the case of Katrina and Rita, that wasn't as helpful for some, though.
ST. JOHN: Well, we certainly knew they were coming, they were well-warned. But some of our systems for moving people out seem to have failed in those situation. It's generally not good to live in a city that's below sea level, in a place that's susceptible to hurricanes.
ROMANS: So 2005, I mean, will it go down in the record books as an unusual year? Or will it be a year where we just paid more attention or made some mistakes, I guess, on the human level?
ST. JOHN: Well certainly it was an unusual year. There was a record number of named storms. So, from that regard, it's also a year where certainly with 24-hour news channels, communications, everybody has a cell phone, a camera, a video recorder and we can get images of these things all over the world in a matter minutes, we're certainly much more aware of them.
ROMANS: And the global warming debate will rage on as we head into 2006, I'm sure.
ST. JOHN: I'm sure it will.
ROMANS: All right, thanks so much, Jim St. John, Georgia Tech.
ST. JOHN: My pleasure.
ROMANS: Still ahead, our "Broken Borders" exposed the citizens of this country to theft, job loss and the threat of violence. We'll talk to one man who says until we address the border issue, we're leaving ourselves vulnerable to terrorists as well.
And the White House surveillance scandal, the other shoe has dropped and it's not pretty. We'll talk to a top official of the ACLU to hear their side of the spy story, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: Americans increasingly agree that a massive fence along the Mexican border could help improve this country's security. The House of Representatives approved funding this month for a 700-mile fence along glaringly exposed sections of our southern border.
But my next guest says this fence simply won't go far enough. He's pushing for a 2,000-mile fence spanning the entire U.S. border with Mexico. Temple Law School professor Jan Ting joins me now from Wilmington, Delaware. He's a former assistant commissioner of the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service. Thank you for joining me.
JAN TING, TEMPLE LAW SCHOOL PROFESSOR: Hi, Christine, nice to be with you.
ROMANS: Thanks, 700-miles simply isn't enough. We need to close the whole thing off with a fence. Why? That's what you think.
TING: Well I'm actually very pleased that the House of Representatives has moved forward to fence about a third of our southern border. I think this will be an interesting test case. We've already fenced the westernmost 14 miles and all the evidence suggests that a fence really works.
And there have been a lot of complaints that people are forced, since they can't cross the fence, they're forced into unfenced areas, sometimes they're less hospitable. They risk their lives, sometime unfortunately they lose their lives trying to cross in unfenced parts of the border.
The obvious solution is to fence the entire border from the Pacific Ocean to the Gulf of Mexico, that's about 2,000 miles. The House of Representatives debated that. They actually had a proposal before them from Representative Duncan Hunter to do exactly that.
Unfortunately, they decided to fund and move forward only on one- third of the fence, but I think that will be a big step forward. And I really think the border fence is an essential element of getting control of this border situation.
ROMANS: But Mexico doesn't like it, in fact, vowing to campaign against this 700 miles. And Vicente Fox, Mexico's president, called the measure "shameful." And his foreign secretary said Mexico is "not going to bear, it is not going to permit. It will not allow a stupid thing like this wall. What has to be done is to raise the storm of criticism." Very unpopular south of the border.
TING: Well, I think the Mexican government has been trying to blackmail us for a long time, that their position has basically been that they're not going to do anything to help us gain control over our border, unless we give amnesty to all the people that are here, and I don't think that's a good thing for us to do.
Any time you hear the word comprehensive, as in comprehensive border reform, really you have to run for the hills, because that's an attempt to sneak asylum in before we get control of the border. You know, I don't necessarily rule out, you know, amnesty but I think it's got to happen as stage two of border control.
Stage one has got to be gaining control of the border. A fence is an essential element and some of the other proposals that you've discussed on the program are all steps in the right direction. Gain control, then maybe we'll think about amnesty further down the road. ROMANS: There are those who say just talking about amnesty, though, increases the flow of illegal immigration, and it inspires people to come here. For example, in 1983 if you were from the Philippines waiting for a sponsored family visa from your brother or sister, you would just be processed right now. But if you came here illegally, you would have been a citizen by now for almost 15 years. So the question is ...
TING: Yes, no doubt that's true. Yes, that's absolutely true.
ROMANS: The question is that by talking about all these things, does it inspire more illegal immigration?
TING: Yes, we've seen big spikes in illegal border crossings in 2004 and 2005, I think, in response to President Bush's guest worker program. Now, he says that's not an amnesty program.
But, you know, my test of an amnesty program is anything that puts illegal aliens in a better position than the people that you refer to, people who have been waiting their turn to immigrate legally to the United States.
There are millions of such people waiting in their home countries, some of them have been waiting many years, and to put illegal aliens ahead of them, well, that's an amnesty, whatever you want to call it.
ROMANS: Jan Ting, thank you so much for joining us, very interesting perspective on the border fence debate. And you used to work at the Immigration and Naturalization Service so you have some inside history there on just what it all pertains. Thank you so much for joining us today.
TING: Thank you, Christine.
ROMANS: A reminder now to vote in tonight's poll. Do you believe the federal government should impose restrictions on how many jobs American corporations can export to cheap foreign labor markets? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll bring you the results in just a few minutes.
Jesus Christ now lives in New York City. That's right. A New York man has legally changed his name to Jesus Christ. Jose Luis Espenal (ph) says he is happy and grateful that a Manhattan judge approved the change.
The judge cited a case earlier this year in Washington, D.C., where a man legally obtained a driver's license and a Social Security card in the name Jesus Christ. She also cited a 2001 Utah case in which a man legally changed his name to Santa Claus.
Still ahead, a gaping hole opened up in a passenger plane during an Alaska Airlines flight 26,000 feet in the air. That dramatic story coming up next.
The White House surveillance scandal heats up. Defense attorneys of terror suspects pledging to use the controversial spy program to defend their clients. We'll talk to a top official of the ACLU next.
And security talk at our nation's airports -- why the TSA says talk is going to keep you safer in the skies. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: An airport worker in Seattle is taking the blame for what turned into a terrifying flight for dozens of passengers. They were aboard an Alaska Airlines flight that lost cabin pressure at 26,000 feet just about 20 minutes after takeoff. Kimberly Osias has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, loud bang, and then a rapid decompression. It was extremely loud.
KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As the pressure inside the Alaska Airlines jet plunged, oxygen masks fell. And passenger Jeremy Hermanns started snapping pictures with the camera on his cell phone. He says no one knew what was happening, and he says the scene inside was horrifying.
JEREMY HERMANNS: A lot of panic. I mean, there was just fear in everybody's eyes because we didn't know what was going on.
OSIAS: Neither did the plane's crew, who Hermanns says performed admirably, nevertheless.
HERMANNS: They -- you know, they were walking up and down, you know, trying to help people put the masks on babies and elderly people who had twisted them.
OSIAS: The plane managed to return safely to Seattle's Sea-Tac Airport, where the problem was soon discovered, a 12-by-6-inch hole in the plane's side, between the front and middle cargo holds, about four feet below the passenger windows.
A ramp worker later came forward, saying his vehicle had bumped the plane earlier, an incident he failed to report immediately. Federal investigators say that bump dented the plane. In turn, that dent opened into a gash, as the jet gained altitude.
Both NTSB and the FAA are investigating the incident.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
OSIAS: Alaska Airlines is also investigating, It reported the incident to Seattle police as a possible hit and run, if you can believe that. The airline says it's reviewing safety procedures and protocol with ground crew, emphasizing the importance of immediately report anything incident involving the planes -- Christine.
ROMANS: Kimberly, it sounds like they have this particular incident in hand. They know what happened. But it is a reminder that it takes one person, one little breach of airport security, to put a lot of lives at risk.
OSIAS: That's exactly right. I mean, he didn't know that there was anything significant that happened initially. And then later, of course, he came forward, but you are exactly right.
ROMANS: All right, Kimberly Osias. Thanks, Kimberly.
Airport security officials are hoping small talk will help catch potential terrorists before they strike. The TSA will soon train screeners at 40 major airports to engage in casual conversation with passengers to see how they react.
Passengers who are evasive or otherwise suspicious will face additional security tests. This technique is already being used in airports in six cities, including New York and Los Angeles.
Another homeland security tactic is causing outrage among many Americans, the secret NSA spy program President Bush authorized to eavesdrop on American citizens. A former lawyer for the Reagan and George H. W. Bush administrations defected domestic spying on this broadcast right night. David Rivkin says it is essential to protecting this nation from terrorism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID RIVKIN, FMR. JUSTICE DEPT. ATTY.: If we cannot get this information, we're not going to be able to win this war, just like we wouldn't have won World War II without being able to listen on German and Japanese military communications and breaking this code. And in this war, intelligence gathering is even more important. But again, everything is being discussed in terms of spying on Americans. It has nothing to do with that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: Joining me now for the other side of this debate is senior counsel for legislative strategy for the ACLU. Lisa Graves joins us from Minneapolis. Thanks for being here.
LISA GRAVES, ACLU SENIOR COUNSEL: Thanks for having me.
ROMANS: OK, the White House and also David Rivkin and some others are saying this is not a blanket spying on Americans. This is not domestic spying, this is eavesdropping in wartime on people who need to be tracked. What do you say?
GRAVES: Well, the fact of the matter is, is that our laws have been broken. The laws are quite clear that in international terrorism investigations, to prevent international terrorism, the Congress has passed a law making it clear that the president must get judicial approval for these warrants. You can call it what you want, but an onion is still an onion.
ROMANS: Talk about the constitutional rights of the president to do this. Things are changing so quickly. You've got technology changing, it is now much easier to mine data and put it through different kinds of programs to try to find patterns and such.
Is it maybe necessary in this day and age, with all of this technology that terrorists are using, for the White House and the Justice Department to have these kinds of ways to protect us from another attack on U.S. soil?
GRAVES: I think it's critically important that The Constitution not be a casualty in this war against terrorism. It's critically important that our Fourth Amendment be followed.
Congress has made clear, even when it amended the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act 2001, that the president must get warrants for these powers. That's because when President Nixon sought to assert power to conduct warrantless wiretaps on the United States soil in the name national security, the Supreme Court unanimously rebuked him.
Without that judicial intervention, our Fourth Amendment would mean nothing.
ROMANS: One of the arguments I hear about that FISA court where the president can go get a warrant for this activity is bureaucracy and time sensitivity have been a hindrance, what do you make of that argument?
GRAVES: It makes me wonder if the president's men have even read the law. That law makes clear that there are exceptions for emergencies allowing the wiretaps to begin. It makes clear the laws applies in times of war. And the court has powers to allow secret and expedited review of any appeal that the United States government might want to take.
The fact is that that court, over the course of 25 or so years, has turned down the president fewer times than I can count on my fingers.
ROMANS: What about the effects of this administration program. What could they have on ongoing terror prosecutions and terror investigations? We've been hearing the defense attorneys, frankly, for some of the suspected al Qaeda members, are salivating over this?
GRAVES: I think when one of the judges on the FISA court resigns because those searches have been tainted by this illegal conduct by the administration, there are consequences for these cases. But what I would say is it's critically important that this violation of law be investigated fully by Congress and that there be an appointment of a special counsel to investigate which laws were broken, by whom, and hold every person who broke the laws, no matter his position, accountable.
ROMANS: Do you expect a serious investigation, a serious bipartisan investigation of this? The White House also says that members of Congress were notified and consulted along the way.
GRAVES: Well, some of the members have disputed that they were notified with any detail and have said that they did make objections. But the bottom line is, and this is high school civics 101, the president can't repeal our laws with a briefing.
The fact of the matter is that conservatives and progressives, people on both sides of the aisle have called this behavior inappropriate, as well as unconstitutional, as well as illegal, and so we think there is a bipartisan focus here, and we hope that will lead to thorough probing hearing. This is a constitutional crisis created by the arrogance of President Bush.
ROMANS: Lisa Graves, ACLU, from Minnesota. Thank you for joining us, Lisa.
GRAVES: Thank you for having me.
ROMANS: This broadcast has repeatedly pointed out Vice President Cheney and how we should say his lack of accessibility to the American public.
Thanks to Maureen Dowd's latest column in The New York times today, we have an even greater insight into this most private of vice presidents. Down points out that you may see any number of sensitive Washington, D.C. locations from Google Earth, like the White House, the U.S. Capitol building, just across the river in Arlington, the Pentagon, right there on Google Earth.
Here's what you get when you type in the vice president's residence on Google Earth. A great big blurry circle at the very spot of the vice president's D.C. Home. It's easier to find the capitals of communist China and communist Cuba on Google Earth than it is to find Vice President Cheney's residence right here in the United States.
Still ahead, the results of our poll tonight. The story of Baby Noor and our nightly tribute to our troops.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: And now the results of tonight's poll. Ninety-three percent of you believe the federal government should impose restrictions on how many jobs American corporations can export to cheap foreign labor markets; 7 percent of you do not share that belief.
Tonight from Iraq, a story of hope. Baby Noor is about to head to the United States, more specifically, Atlanta, to undergo critical surgery. She has severe spina bifida, and only a special surgery, not available in Iraq, can save her life.
Spina bifida is a birth defect in which the spinal column fails to completely close. She was only given 45 days to live when she was born. So far she has defied the doctors and lived three months. Members of the Georgia National Guard discovered Noor after entering her parent's house as part of a raid in a Baghdad neighborhood.
Those soldiers took a special interest in this little girl and are and credited with finding a doctor to perform surgery here in the United States. We'll be sure to keep you up to date on her condition. And finally tonight our tribute to our troops. Each night we bring you holiday greetings from some of the men and women serving this country far from home during the holidays.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, my name is Sergeant Watkins Taquica (ph). I'm stationed in Tikrit, Iraq. I would like to say happy holidays to my mother and father and my family who's staying in Danton (ph), Tennessee. I miss you and I love you, and I'll be home soon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Lieutenant Colonel Bob Craig. I'm at FOB Ripley in beautiful Tarincot (ph), Afghanistan. I'd like to say merry Christmas to aunts, uncles, cousins and all my friends in my hometown of New Castle, Pennsylvania.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello, I'm Staff Sergeant Mark Robinson in Iraq. I'd like to say happy holidays to my wife Belinda and my baby Kayla in Fort Campbell, Kentucky.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Captain Chip Hahn (ph), serving with the First Brigade combat team, 101st Airborne division, stationed here in Kirkuk, Iraq. I want to say happy holidays and merry Christmas to my family back in Skeneatlas, New York.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, I'm First Lieutenant Kalida Huntsinger (ph) from Fobsfiker (ph) in Iraq. I wanted to say hi to my sister Krista (ph), my brother-in-law Carlo, and their new baby, Kyra. Merry Christmas, happy holidays, and I'll see y'all soon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: We wish them all a safe return home. Thanks for being with us tonight. Join us tomorrow.
The United States could soon have new tools to help fight illegal immigration. We'll take a closer look at an amendment at the house immigration bill which takes a tougher stance against illegal aliens who commit crimes in our country.
Then, from the surveillance scandal to the Patriot Act and the Alito nomination, there's a whole lot of buzz in Washington during a normally pretty quiet week.
We'll talk live with "Time" magazine Washington D.C. Bureau Chief, Jay Carney.
Plus, a special report on the failing grades of our nation's education system.
For all of us here, good night from New York. "THE SITUATION ROOM" starts right now with Tom Foreman filling in for Wolf Blitzer.
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