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VIPs in the White House; Ariel Sharon Gravely Ill; Update on Sago Mine Tragedy

Aired January 05, 2006 - 10:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's take a look at what is happening right "Now in the News."
As we go to West Virginia, we soon could have an idea of exactly what killed those 12 miners in West Virginia. Autopsies are expected to begin today. Loved ones are now preparing to bury their dead, and they are demanding answers.

We'll have a report in just a few minutes.

A doctor says Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is in serious but stable condition. This, after a massive stroke and more than nine hours of brain surgery. Mr. Sharon's condition is being watched very closely around the world.

We'll go live to Jerusalem for an update.

A deadly new wave of insurgence violence across Iraq today. At least 134 people were killed, including five U.S. soldiers. The soldier were killed when a roadside bomb struck their patrol in Baghdad. Elsewhere, a pair of suicide bombings targeted a Shiite shrine in Karbala and the police recruitment center in Ramadi.

They talked Iraq at the White House today. And President Bush reached out for input. He conferred with former secretaries of state and defense, including a few who have disagreed with his Iraq policy. We'll hear from our Suzanne Malveaux straight ahead.

And federal safety investigators are on the scene of a commuter train accident in northern Virginia. The train was heading to Washington when several cars jumped the track. Police say at least four people were hurt.

Good morning, and welcome to CNN LIVE TODAY.

Checking the time around the world, it is just after 11:00 a.m. in Morgantown, West Virginia; just after 11:00 here in Atlanta, Georgia; and just after 6:00 p.m. in Jerusalem.

From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Daryn Kagan.

First up, VIPs at the White House. President Bush called in a distinguished group this morning. He asked for advice, opinions and thoughts on Iraq.

Critics accuse the president of relying too much on his inner circle. Well, today, Mr. Bush crossed party and administration lines to get input from a dozen or more former secretaries of state and defense. I'll talk to one from the Reagan era in just a few minutes.

First, though, let's check in with our White House correspondent, Suzanne Malveaux. She has a glimpse of this unusual gathering from the White House.

Suzanne, good morning.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, Daryn.

Of course it really kind of represents this political and historical firepower here at the White House. The Roosevelt Room, the president, the vice president, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, as well as meeting with half -- about a dozen or so former secretaries of state or defense, both pro and against the Iraq policy. A very interesting way to broaden the perspective, if you will, the president says, to part of his outreach in getting various opinions on the matter, but also to make it very clear that he is pushing forward his agenda, that he is saying that there is a plan in place for victory.

President Bush just moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Not everybody around this table agree with my decision to go into Iraq. And I fully understand that. But these are good, solid Americans who understand that we've got to succeed now that we're there.

And I am most grateful for the suggestions that have been given. We take to heart the advice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Now, of course, Daryn, we heard the advice of a couple of them who actually went out to the stakeout. We did see some very interesting folks who were gathered around that table.

We saw former secretaries of state Colin Powell, Madeleine Albright. One of the people, Lawrence Eagleburger, of course, who worked for President Bush's father, has been outspoken in the past about the Iraq policy. He actually talked a little bit about -- he was asked really what was the most difficult thing when the president was listening to you, the criticism, perhaps, of the Iraq war.

He went on to say that when you're in the presence of the president, even if you're the most partisan person, you tend to likely pull your punches. But he basically said that he didn't believe that the president was listening to the American people enough.

Some of the other people in the room that we saw as well, former secretaries of defense William Cohen, William Perry, who was a foreign adviser to John Kerry's campaign, and then, of course, Alexander Haig, who was also at the stakeout, former secretary of state for Reagan. So we're just beginning to get some of that sound together, very interesting conversation after that meeting took place -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Well, you make the request, we have it for you, Suzanne. It turns out we do just have the sound just in now...

MALVEAUX: Well, good.

KAGAN: ... from Alexander Haig and Lawrence Eagleburger.

MALVEAUX: OK.

KAGAN: So let's listen to that together.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEXANDER HAIG, FMR. SECRETARY OF STATE: These, of course, are the major risks we're confronting, and it's the political process of putting a unity government together which represents all of the people and all of the factions. And this is under way.

Thus far, we've been successful. And this election was a 70 percent turnout, was far greater than it was the first referendum, 50, as I recall. Then we got a little higher in the next one, now we're up over 70.

Everything is proceeding. But it isn't going to be easy. And if anyone would tell you that, then I would suggest you tell them to go back to the drawing board. This is a very difficult problem.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How difficult is it in terms of this openness?

Go ahead.

LAWRENCE EAGLEBURGER, FMR. SECRETARY OF STATE: I just want to add one thing to your question, which is, you can't really predict at this stage how in the longer run it's going to work out politically. All this administration and all the Iraqis can do now is try to establish as best they can a framework.

And if that framework works, fine. But you've got several hundred years of antagonism between Kurds, Saudis and Sunnis. Any time you think this is going to be done in a hurry, it's just not going to be the case.

And there are going to be a lot of bumps in this road. And if you think anybody can predict success at this stage, I think you're wrong. All we can do is do our best to try to get it there. But nobody can predict...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: And that was Lawrence Eagleburger, Alexander Haig before him. Suzanne, before I let you go, any word out of the White House? I'm sure they are watching very carefully the condition of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, who has suffered a very serious stroke.

MALVEAUX: Well, they certainly are watching very carefully, very closely, Daryn, of course. They're very sensitive to this issue, simply saying that they certainly hope and wish for the very best for him.

A U.S. source who has high level Israeli contacts who I spoke with this morning said that Sharon is alive, but it is almost impossible that he'll resume his prime ministership. He said that he's been sedated for the last 24 hours and that there is likely permanent damage. And the odds of resuming his work are extremely, extremely low.

So it does seem like there's a sense that the situation is quite dire, indeed. We got a chance to ask Eagleburger and Haig as well about Sharon's condition. Haig saying, "It is in god's hands. Israel has been very fortunate to have leaders who will rise to the occasion." He believes that will happen again.

And then Eagleburger, who said that it will probably derail the peace process -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Suzanne Malveaux at the White House.

Thank you.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice also talking about Mr. Sharon earlier today. Here's what she had to say about that.

All right. We don't have that sound bite, but we do have Guy Raz standing by in Jerusalem with the latest on Ariel Sharon -- Guy.

GUY RAZ, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, in this period of uncertainty here in Israel, one thing is becoming increasingly certain. That is, the political era of Ariel Sharon is probably coming to an end.

Now, as we speak, the Israeli prime minister clings to life. He is on a life support mechanism. As the hours tick by, now approaching 24 hours after the prime minister was admitted to this hospital, fewer and fewer Israelis believe Ariel Sharon will emerge from this hospital undamaged, if he comes out alive at all.

Now, the powers of the prime minister have been transferred to Mr. Sharon's deputy, Ehud Olmert. Mr. Olmert will hold that position for the next 100 days.

If Ariel Sharon does not resume his position within that time, under Israeli law, the public must go to the polls to elect a new government for the state of Israel -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Guy Raz live in Jerusalem.

Thank you. We'll be checking back with you with updates on Mr. Sharon's status.

Now we focus back here in the U.S. Grieving the tragedy at the Sago Mine. Members of the tight-knit Tallmansville community gathered at a church to remember the 12 miners killed this week. They sang hymns and shared memories of the miners.

The Sago Baptist Church served as a shelter for family members awaiting word on the fate of their loved ones.

Our Kimberly Osias joins us live from the church -- Kimberly.

KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, actually, Daryn, I'm outside the Sago Mine Number One. And there is no activity here now. Nobody is going down into those mines until this investigation is completed.

Of course, federal and state officials are looking into the cause, the cause of this terrible, terrible accident. And I met with one family member this morning, and he says that is what they want to know, they want to know why.

They do say they feel incredibly buoyed by this tremendous outpouring of support from this community. All over you see signs bearing messages, saying that "Our prayers and our thoughts are with you." In businesses, workers are showing their signs of solidarity with these families, with these miners. They are wearing black bands to show their support.

And all over the state, Governor Manchin has ordered that the flags be flown at half-staff -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Kimberly Osias, live in West Virginia.

Thank you for that.

The sole survivor of the coal mine explosion is being called the miracle miner. Twenty-six-year-old Randy McCloy, Jr. fighting back from the brink of death at a hospital in Morgantown, West Virginia. His doctor spoke with CNN earlier today about McCloy's condition.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. JOHN PRESCOTT, DEAN, WEST VIRGINIA SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: We're not certain that he is hearing anything at this point. He is not responding with purposeful movement at this -- at this moment. There was responses yesterday to his wife.

We -- at this time, again, we are not seeing those kind of responses. But that doesn't mean things have changed one way or the other. It's -- again, we saw something for a moment yesterday. We hope to see it again, some signs of that again today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: And you can always count on "AMERICAN MORNING" for informative interviews. They get started weekdays at 6:00 a.m. Eastern right here on CNN. It leads up to us at 10:00 a.m. Eastern, CNN LIVE TODAY.

We here at CNN LIVE TODAY will bring you more on McCloy's condition from the hospital in Morgantown at the bottom of the hour.

Ahead this hour, a look at the inspectors who watch over the mines. Who watches over them?

And former defense secretary Frank Carlucci, he was in on the president's meeting on Iraq earlier today, along with some of the highest-ranking diplomats in recent history. We'll hear his take on the plan for Iraq.

And later, the future is right now, at least in Las Vegas it is. The gizmos and gadgets that you just are going to really want to have. We'll have a look at some of them live from the Consumer Electronics Chow coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: The latest from Iraq now. All told, more than 130 people dead in the carnage, including U.S. troops. A suicide bomber killed at least 80 people in Ramadi today. The attacker blew himself up near a group that had lined up for police jobs.

Insurgents frequently target Iraqis who seek work with the police. Most of the recruits got back in line after the chaos of the attack.

Less than an hour earlier, a suicide attack south of Baghdad left at least 45 people dead. The explosion took place in a pedestrian shopping area in Karbala near two revered Shiite mosques.

And in Baquba, insurgents ambushed a police patrol. That attack killed four officers.

And five U.S. soldiers were killed today in Baghdad. The military says their armored Humvee hit a roadside bomb.

President Bush got some input on Iraq today from veterans of previous White House administrations. It was a bipartisan group. One participant was Frank Carlucci, defense secretary under President Reagan. He joins me now from the White House.

Mr. Carlucci, good morning.

FRANK CARLUCCI, FMR. DEFENSE SECRETARY: Good morning, Daryn.

KAGAN: So you had this bipartisan group, former secretaries of state, secretaries of defense, Democrats, Republicans. What was it like in there?

CARLUCCI: It was a unique meeting. I can't remember a meeting like this in my -- in recent history.

The president kicked it off. We heard from Zalmay Khalilzad, our ambassador to Iraq, from General George Casey, the head of our military in Iraq. We heard from General Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

The president participated actively in the discussion. The former secretaries expressed views, asked questions. It was a good exchange.

Then we visited the Oval Office.

KAGAN: Was it all very respectful?

CARLUCCI: It was all very respectful, but I think people didn't hesitate to express candid views.

KAGAN: For instance, who was the most outspoken in there?

CARLUCCI: Oh, well, Melvin Laird, George Shultz, Madeleine Albright all made very strong points. A lot of emphasis on the need to -- for the president to continue to explain to the public what his policies are, the progress he's making, that it's a difficult task, and that not everything goes perfectly.

KAGAN: Did you have a chance to put your two cents in?

CARLUCCI: Well, I asked one question. But I didn't -- I didn't proffer advice.

KAGAN: What would your advice be for the president if you had a one-on-one with him?

CARLUCCI: Well, I think we all agreed that we want the president to succeed in his policies. Whether people agreed with the decision to go in or not, nobody really feels that we ought to fail at this point. We need to keep pushing ahead. There was nobody in the meeting that urged us to engage in an immediate pullout.

KAGAN: And what do you make of this meeting? I mean, this is a president who is criticized more than anybody of just staying within his inner circle.

CARLUCCI: Well, the president addressed that point. He said that he wanted to hear from us not only at the meeting, but thereafter, that he was open to advice, suggestions. He knew that his secretary of state met with previous secretaries of state, same with the secretary of defense. Don Rumsfeld has met with previous secretaries.

He urged them to continue to do that. And he said that he'd like to have more meetings of this nature.

KAGAN: Mr. Carlucci, looking over your -- your resume and your life story, a couple other big stories in the news I'd like to get your take on, if you're agreeable to that.

You used to be high ranking there at the NSA. What do you make of the domestic spying scandal right now with President Bush saying that he needs to have this right in order to be able to promote the program in order to keep the country safe? CARLUCCI: Well, let me correct you. I was never at the NSA. I was national security adviser during Ronald Reagan's administration.

Obviously, we need to engage in the kind of techniques that have been used to defend ourselves against terrorist attacks. And one of the things the president indicated at this meeting is that the terrorists are still out to get us, there will be more attacks. So we have to take the necessary measures.

KAGAN: So you support the president in what he's trying to do with this program?

CARLUCCI: Oh, I certainly think that we do have to listen to phone conversations that people from al Qaeda are engaged in. And I don't think there's any argument about that. The question is, what procedures need to be followed? And that's a matter for the lawyers and the courts and the Congress to decide.

KAGAN: And going way back to the beginning, you hail from Scranton, Pennsylvania, mining country. I'm sure you followed the story in West Virginia with great interest.

CARLUCCI: Well, that's certainly a tragic event. And our hearts go out to the families, our sympathy. And we can only hope that steps will be taken to avoid these kinds of events in the future.

KAGAN: Frank Carlucci, former defense secretary under President Reagan, taking part in a fascinating meeting today at the White House.

Thanks for being our eyes and ears and sharing what took place there in the White House. We appreciate your time. Thank you.

CARLUCCI: A pleasure.

KAGAN: And we'll have a check of the markets just ahead.

Then, Hollywood loves them, families can afford them. If you're in the market for a hybrid car, we will help fuel your search. There should be some tax information that goes with this as well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: It is the end of the line for Independence Air. The discount carrier's final flights are taking off before it begins shutting down tonight.

Independence Air filed for bankruptcy protection last year. It's asking the court to approve refunds for passengers with reservations after today. The airline is based at Washington Dulles Airport.

Well, let's hope there's better, more encouraging business news in general than that. Susan Lisovicz at the New York Stock Exchange.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

KAGAN: All right. Still to come, you can save gas and save money. What else you need to know about hybrid cars. We'll get the lowdown on the low-fuel vehicles from an auto expert, the tax advantages that might be in store for you. That's just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: So this might actually be a good situation if you did wait to do something. If you bought your new hybrid car in the last five days in 2006, not only will you save gas, your patience will fuel a bigger tax refunded in '07.

Lawrence Ulrich writes about the automotive industry for "Money" magazine, and he joins me in New York this morning to fill us in on the new hybrid tax credit.

Lawrence, good morning.

LAWRENCE ULRICH, "MONEY" MAGAZINE: Good morning. How you doing?

KAGAN: I'm doing good.

First of all, we're talking tax credit, which is better than a deduction. How does that work?

ULRICH: You bet. You know, this is a really sweet deal.

Before, you only got, you know, a deduction, which didn't really put that much money back in your pocket. For 2006, you're going to be eligible for a deduction, real money in your pocket. And the great thing about it is, that's going to offset that pretty huge premium that we're seeing on a lot of hybrid models.

KAGAN: But -- so it was good to wait until '06, but you don't want to wait too long because there's going to be a cap on this.

ULRICH: That's right. But, you know, curiously enough, only in the case of Toyota. You know, this tax formula is still in play. You know, it's a formula only an IRS agent could love. And we're all still trying to figure it out.

And the thing is, the credits are going to be all over the map. They're going to range from a few hundred dollars for hybrids that don't do that well in mileage, compared to a typical car, to maybe as high as $3,200 for the Prius. And that's probably going to be the maximum right now.

KAGAN: OK. This one you have to help me. We're talking 13 different gas-electric cars, some foreign, some American cars. But this includes a four-wheel drive Chevy Silverado. It gets 17 miles to the gallon in the city.

I would get a tax credit for that, but not if I went and, like, bought a Jetta, that's just a regular gas-driven car that gets much better mileage?

ULRICH: Correct. You know, you're comparing cars within their own class. So, say your typical family sedan gets 20 miles per gallon. You need to get at least 25 miles per gallon to be eligible for a credit.

And what's -- again, the big thing for consumers is, the crazy rules say that the tax credit starts phasing out once an automaker sells 60,000 hybrids. The only automaker that's going to come close to that this year is Toyota. So if you want -- want one of five Toyota or Lexus hybrids that are going to be available, you need to buy them before about roughly September 30 of this year, and then over the next year or so these credits are going to start phasing out.

So you've got about nine months to move on Toyota. If you're buying a Ford, a GM, a Honda hybrid, you've probably got well into '07 and beyond.

KAGAN: OK. Let's really talk about the practicality of these cars, because some consumers who have bought them are starting to raise questions about them and just how good of a deal are they, how they're advertised and what they actually end up being.

For instance, with gas mileage, the Toyota Prius, the estimate is that it's going to get you 60 miles a gallon, but then in actual, only 35. The Honda Civic, 47 miles per gallon, actually only 26 miles per gallon.

So what's going on with this, Lawrence?

ULRICH: Well, those are -- those are a little low. We test every car and truck at "Money" magazine. And if you baby the gas pedal on a Prius, you can get low-to-mid 40 miles to the gallon range. Right, you're not going...

KAGAN: Who drives like that? Come on.

ULRICH: That's -- well, that's the hybrid tradeoff. And then we've got some of these new Lexus models where they went for power and prestige instead of economy.

There's a couple of the Lexus and Toyota hybrid SUVs in our testing barely get better mileage than the gas-only versions. And, of course, and because of that they're going to be eligible for a smaller credit.

KAGAN: Oh. And so because of that you would get a smaller credit?

ULRICH: Exactly.

KAGAN: So at the end of the day, you're probably paying more for this car because it's a hybrid, you get the tax credit, maybe you don't get as much gas mileage as you want.

Is it a good deal? Or, at the end of the day, should people just do it because they feel good because they think they're helping the environment? ULRICH: Well, you know, that's a big part of the hybrid purchase. And, you know, right, if you look at it in a dollar and cents way, you know, gas pretty much would have to be $5 a gallon for to you actually make up the difference in cost in gas savings.

You know, your average hybrid still costs $3,000 to $10,000 more than a comparable car. You're not going to make that back in fuel savings.

But people don't care. And as this technology improves and becomes more seamless and more everyday, you're going to see the price of hybrids come down, you're going to see their mileage in some cases go up. And as -- and with the worries over, you know, these roller- coaster fuel prices and concerns over global warming and the environment, people just want to put their money where their mouth is on fuel economy more and more.

And that's potentially a good thing.

KAGAN: Lawrence Ulrich, from "Money" magazine.

It is a growing field, hybrid cars. Thanks for your expertise today.

ULRICH: Thank you.

KAGAN: Let's check in with Jacqui Jeras. She's watching the weather.

(WEATHER REPORT)

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