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CNN Live Sunday

Bob Ney Temporarily Steps Down; Pakistanis Protest CIA Air Strike That Killed 18 Civilians; Laura Bush in Africa; Voice Discrimination and Profiling

Aired January 15, 2006 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: It's January 15th and you're watching CNN LIVE SUNDAY. From the CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Carol Lin. To our top story in just a moment, but, first, these are the stories making news right now.
Corruption, investigation, fallout on Capitol Hill. Representative Bob Ney is stepping down temporarily as chairman of the House Administration Committee. The Ohio Republican has been implicated in a corruption probe connected to lobbyist Jack Abramoff. A spokesman says Ney has done nothing wrong and believers he will be vindicated.

And doctors perform a tracheotomy on Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon today to aid his breathing. He remains in a coma after a massive stroke, in critical but stable condition. Doctors are trying to wean him off a respirator.

The only survivor of the Sago Mine tragedy is improving. Doctors say Randy McCloy's condition has been upgraded from critical to serious, but he remains in a coma.

To our top story now: They came from near and far. To remember the 12 men who died inside Sago Mine. Hundreds of people gathered at a West Virginia church today, to pay their respects, and share stories and offer comfort to a community in mourning. CNN's Christopher King is there. Christopher, what was that...

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTOPHER KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ... People came from all over the country for the service. They held it here at the West Virginia Wesleyan College here in Buckhannon, West Virginia. Well- wishers released balloons into the sky as mourner they left the Wesleyan Chapel. Family members lit candles in honor of the 12 miners who died after being trapped inside of Sago Mine. Author Homer Hickam, a West Virginia native himself, spoke at the service. He called the miners men of honor, dignity and courage.

HOMER HICKAM, AUTHOR: How and why these men died will be studied, now and in the future. Many lessons will be learned. And many other miners will live because of what is learned. This is right and proper.

But how and why these men lived, that is perhaps the more important thing to be studied. We know this much for certain: They were men who loved their families. They were men who worked hard. They were men of integrity and honor.

KING: Only one miner came out of the Sago Mine alive, Randal McCloy is now in serious condition at a hospital in Morgantown, West Virginia. Doctors say he has a multitude of health problems, still including a kidney problem, although he has been breathing without the help of a ventilator.

Work crews are still drilling at the mine, and want to vent the mine so investigators can go down inside and piece together what caused the disaster in the first place. Christopher King, CNN, Buckhannon, West Virginia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: You are less than two hours away from a special edition of "LARRY KING LIVE." Honor, Hope, and Healing, families remember the men who lost their lives inside Sago Mine. That's tonight at 9:00 Eastern, 6:00 Pacific.

Well, a Florida eighth grader who prompted a tense stand off at his school has died. A family attorney says Christopher Penley had been brain dead since yesterday. A day after he was shot by police. They say he threatened classmates and aimed what appeared to be a handgun at a SWAT team member.

Well, it turned out to be a pellet gun. Friends described the boy as emotionally troubled. One neighbor said Penley went to school Friday saying he hoped he would die.

Now, elsewhere in Florida, two teens suspected of attacking homeless men turned themselves in today. A security camera in Ft. Lauderdale captured one of the beatings. Police say the teens will face aggravated battery charges in that case, and they'll face murder charges in the death of another homeless man. They are also suspects in the attack on a third victim. Police are investigating whether the teens took part in other beatings and if they had accomplices.

And more outrage today in Pakistan, over a U.S. air strike that killed 18 people. U.S. sources say the target was Osama bin Laden's top deputy, but Pakistani intelligence officials say he wasn't among the dead. CNN's Senior International Nic Robertson reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: From rain-drenched dirt alleys, close to Pakistan's boarder with Afghanistan, where tribes, are more powerful than government, to the wide, well ordered affluent boulevards of the nation's capital, Islamabad, the cost of an apparent mistake on the war on terror is being paid. One of the U.S. staunchest allies in that war, the president, is being told to step down.

QAZI HUSSAIN, OPPOSITION LEADER: The government of Pakistan should resign, because they have failed to protect their territory and protect their citizens from the unjustified attack from the American forces. ROBERTSON: The attack initiated by the CIA, targeted Al Qaeda's number two, Ayman Al-Zawahiri. But killed 18 Pakistanis, including women and children. Outrage has been so strong, the Musharraf's allies have for the first time in years joined the opposition condemning the Pakistani leader, warning such attacks cannot continue.

FAROOQ SATTAR, MOM PARLIAMENTARY HEAD: This is also going to affect by and large the war on terrorism.

ROBERTSON: Musharraf has weathered such opposition before, most notably announcing his support of the U.S. after September the 11th, but he has politically weaker now. And that means catching Osama bin Laden and Ayman Al Zawahiri may be getting harder.

SATTAR: Time is running out for all those who are engaged in, and they must very seriously address these lapses and the weaknesses in the intelligence.

ROBERTSON: In the war on terror, improving intelligence is proving one of the hardest battles to win. Nic Robertson, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Now, in southern Afghanistan today, a deadly suicide attack. The target, a Canadian military convoy. Officials say a car packed with explosives rammed into a convoy on patrol. One Canadian soldier was killed, along with two Afghans. As many as 13 people were wounded.

Now, he's the world's most wanted terrorist, but Osama bin Laden is still largely a mystery to most of us. Now, a new book tries to change that. It's called "The Osama bin Laden, I Know", a fascinating account of the Al Qaeda's leader life and agenda. It's written by CNN Terrorism Analyst Peter Bergen, who met him back in 1997.

Earlier I asked Peter why bin Laden turned to terror.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: What turned him into a terrorist leader? I think the experience of fighting the Soviets directly inside Afghanistan. War changes everybody. And it certainly changed bin Laden. The experience of fighting the Soviets directly on the front lines in the '80s is what transformed him into somebody that had the courage of his own convictions as it were.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Peter talks about bin Laden's childhood, his influences there. And the biggest surprise, the daughter who was born to bin Laden after 9/11. That was the biggest surprise to Peter. So, please, see my entire interview with him on "CNN Sunday Night", at 10:00 Eastern.

Now to the escalating tension between the U.S. and Iran. A chasm that may have deepened today with the latest provocative pronouncement from Iran, that it plans to hold a conference on the scientific evidence surrounding the Holocaust. Just last month, Iran's president called the slaughter of 6 million Jews, a myth. Iran's comments about its nuclear program are also causing concern. With more on that, here's CNN's Elaine Quijano.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Iran supplies nearly 5 percent of the world's oil, and among OPEC nations is second only to Saudi Arabia in oil production. Yet, this past week, the oil-rich country said it was resuming uranium enrichment research for peaceful energy purposes. That move alarmed European leaders and the U.S., who fear the Iranians are trying to develop a nuclear weapon.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Iran armed with a nuclear weapon poses a grave threat to the security of the world.

QUIJANO: The Europeans and the U.S. want Iran referred to the U.N. Security Council, though it's not clear what action they want taken. If sanctions are imposed, Iran threatened Sunday, it could respond by raising world oil prices. One prominent senator believes that's a prospect people might have to face.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARIZONA: These are a set of bad options, but if the price of oil has to go up, then that's a consequence.

QUIJANO: Opposition to sanctions could come from Russia, a longtime ally, and China, a major consumer of Iranian oil. Concerns over Tehran have been fueled by a steady stream of provocative statements by it's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, saying Israel should be, quote, "wiped off the map" and that the holocaust, which left 6 million Jews dead was a, quote, "myth."

SEN. TRENT LOTT, (R) MISSISSIPPI: This is very serious stuff. There may not be the threat of imminent ability to deliver a nuclear weapon, but clearly that is indicated by what they said and how they are acting. How more irresponsible can they be?

QUIJANO: One Democratic senator who has not ruled out running for president, criticized President Bush for his handling of Iran.

SEN. EVAN BAYH, (D) INDIANA: I'm glad the president is finally speaking out about this, but for four long years they have ignored the problem, and it has brought us to a position we are in today.

QUIJANO: A White House spokesman rejected that saying the U.S. has been leading the way to confront the threat of a nuclear-armed Iran. If diplomacy fails, U.S. military action remains a last resort, despite U.S. commitments in the ongoing Iraq war.

McCAIN: We are tied up to a great degree, but that does not mean we don't have military options, we do. But, again, that is the last option. Everything else has to be exhausted, but to say under no circumstance would be exercise military option, it would be crazy? QUIJANO (on camera): While the Bush administration has not taken military action off the table, officials here insist they are still focusing on diplomacy. They say referring Iran to the Security Council represents a new diplomatic phase. One they say can still work. Elaine Quijano, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Due to an error in translation, CNN incorrectly quoted Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, in his speech, given yesterday, as saying that Iran has the right to build the nuclear weapons. Instead, the president said Iran has the right to nuclear energy and that, quote, "a nation that has civilization does not need nuclear weapons, and our nation does not need them."

CNN takes this matter very seriously and apologizes for the error.

Well, the fight over the future of New Orleans, why is a city commission considering abandoning some devastated some neighborhoods for good?

And a NASA project comes hurling back to Earth. We'll tell you what the 100-pound capsule could teach us about the universe.

SHANNON COOK, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, I'm Shannon Cook. When we go global, the first lady is on a four-day trip to Africa. I'll tell you what's on her agenda, we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: It has the potential of unlocking secrets of the universe. The Stardust Spacecraft landed today, capping off a NASA mission that by all accounts is a cosmic success. On its seven-year journey, yep, seven years, through the solar system, Stardust collected interstellar dust particles from a comet. And it delivered it to scientists along with an incredible thrill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM DUXBURY, STARDUST PROJECT MANAGER: We pushed about every frontier you could think of, going halfway to Jupiter, on solar cells, coming back into Earth faster than anything has ever done before. So many, many things that we did in this little project.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Researchers are chomping at the bit to study the treasure trove of data. All that dust. Stardust samples could help them understand how the planets formed and evolved. Now, NASA is taking aim at Pluto now. Tuesday, a space probe powered largely by radioactive plutonium pellets is scheduled for launch aboard the largest rocket in NASA's fleet. Some have protested the use of plutonium power. The journey to Pluto could actually take nine years. The probe is to get a boost by bouncing off Jupiter's massive gravity field. Time now to check some of the stories making news around the world. First lady Laura Bush flew to Africa today. For more details on the purpose of her visits, we'll turn to Shannon Cook.

Hey, Shannon.

COOK: Hey, Carol. Thank you very much.

The first lady is on a four-day trip to Africa. And today she actually arrived in Ghana, where she is promoting education and HIV/AIDS programs. And the main reasons for her trip is to attend tomorrow's presidential inauguration of Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf in Liberia. Johnson-Sirleaf is the first woman to be elected a head of state in all of Africa.

Mrs. Bush noted her support in an interview with CNN's Zain Verjee this week, saying it was a very historical time for Liberia.

Meanwhile, in Kuwait, thousands mourn the loss of a leader who was a strong supporter of women's political rights. The Emir Sheik Jabar al-Ahmad al-Sabah died today. He ruled Kuwait for almost three decades, surviving an assassination attempt in the '80s, and leading his country through an invasion by Iraq. He was considered a key U.S. ally in the Iraq war.

In Iraq, some 500 prisoners were freed from the Abu Ghraib prison today. They'd been in U.S. detention, but hadn't been convicted of violent crimes. The U.S. military says all the detainees chosen for release had, quote, "admitted their crimes, renounced violence, and pledged to be good citizens of the democratic Iraq," end quote.

Now in Norway, this is definitely a first, an outdoor musical concert where all the musical instruments are made of ice. From horns to even the music stands had to be carved out of massive blocks of ice. This was part of a three-day ice festival in a ski resort town in Norway.

Actually winter festivals like this has been taking place all over Europe. London unveiled a 16-foot-tall ice sculpture of Moscow's St. Basil's Cathedral this week. As part of a Russian Winter Festival. And at the same time Moscow unveiled an ice sculpture of a London landmark, that is Big Ben.

Carol, this sculpture is about 20 feet tall. It took five days for sculptures to carve it. A lot of work for something that would ultimately melts.

LIN: Wow. What's this ice exchange about, between Moscow and London?

COOK: Apparently it's in the name of promoting friendly relations between Russia and Britain, particularly strengthening cultural and economic ties. The first time we've heard of two ice sculptures actually being created and unveiled at the same time in separate cities.

LIN: And I take it they got a warm reception?

COOK: Oh, very, very cute, yes, yes. On a chilly day, they all got a warm reception. But I'm sure the sculptures are probably melting at this point. Unfortunately they just don't last.

LIN: Thanks for the beautiful pictures, Shannon.

COOK: Thank you.

LIN: Well, is the quest for American security reaching into your private mail? That story's next.

And still to come, putting American folklore to the scientific test. We'll tell you if there's proof the legendary Donner party did, in fact, turn to cannibalism to survive, or maybe not.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: All right, these pictures just in, of a wildfire burning in Owasso, Oklahoma. There is near Tulsa, Oklahoma. Look at those winds blowing. Wildfires have been plaguing this area for the last month. Temperatures have just been too high, even though it's January. Monica McNeal standing by at the CNN Weather Center.

Monica, what do you think these folks can expect? Look at that wind.

MONICA MCNEAL, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I'm just looking at the pictures while you are talking about it, Carol, and I'm thinking to myself, more of the same is definitely on the way. Doesn't look like we're going to see any relief in sight.

As a matter of fact, take a look at some of these winds, anywhere from about 10 to 20 miles an hour. The maximum sustained winds. Gusting, Carol, up to about 30 miles an hour in some of these locations across Texas and the Oklahoma panhandle. A red flag warning remains in effect through tomorrow.

The biggest reason why? Well, look at these temperatures. We're running about 15 to 20 degrees above average for this time of the year. And when you factor in winds, gusting up to about 30 miles per hour, that spells big trouble.

But there is some good news on the way. There's a cold front that's going to be moving through on Monday, dropping those temperatures as low as 48 degrees by Tuesday, so cooler temperatures are on the way, Carol, but no rain.

LIN: Monica, quickly, what's a red-flag warning?

MCNEAL: Red-flag warning basically means that all the conditions are ripe for imminent fires, as you are seeing right now. We've got very dry conditions and the gusty winds, and we've had extended periods with no rainfall, so that's when they issue the warning, that's bad news.

LIN: All right. Thanks, Monica.

On our "Security Watch", is the government opening your personal mail? Well, the U.S. Customs and Border Protection Agency acknowledges it may read mail coming from aboard as part of the war against terror. CNN's Brian Todd shows us one man who says he found out the hard way.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GRANT GOODMAN, SAYS GOVERNMENT OPENED LETTER: To send to me.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Grant Goodman is a bookish 81-year-old from a retirement community in Lawrence, Kansas. He has a friend in the Philippines who is about the same age and who he says is no more of a public threat than he is.

So Goodman shuddered recently when a letter from his friend, which he says contained nothing more than a note and some newspaper clippings, had clearly been opened and resealed by officials from Customs and Border Protection, an agency within the Department of Homeland Security.

GOODMAN: I was obviously shocked, and very distressed to think that my privacy had been violated in this way. I wondered why in the world this had happened to a letter addressed to me.

TODD: Goodman doesn't believe there's anything in his background that is suspicious. A longtime Asian studies professor at the University of Kansas, retired for 16 years. Says he's never been publicly critical of the government. And says he served as a Japanese translator for General Douglas MacArthur at the end of World War II. Our separate background check found nothing to refute any of that.

He says his friend, who he wouldn't named, is an American- educated, former professor, with whom he has exchanged letters for many years. On the heels of the NSA wiring tapping controversy, Goodman's letter raises more concern about the balance over privacy and security.

CAROLINE FREDRICKSON, ACLU: And it would trouble me that goes on, and that our -- our administration feels like it has the authority to poke around in people's private lives when there's no evidence of them doing anything wrong.

TODD Contacted by CNN, an official with Customs and Border Protection says it's long-standing policy that any package coming into the U.S. from overseas can legally be opened, if there's suspicion of contraband inside.

A statement from the agency says, in part, "CBP does not open mail to read personal correspondence. Sealed letter class mail, which appears to contain only correspondence ask only opened when a search warrant is issued or the sender or addressee gives written authorization."

Goodman says he never gave permission and is sure his friend didn't. (On camera): The customs official says she does not know about Goodman's case and doesn't know why the letter would have been opened. The official says it's likely that no one actually read the letter, but Grant Goodman says he still feels like he's under surveillance. Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

So is the future of New Orleans caught in a catch-22? Up next, the red tape that may cause some neighborhoods to disappear for good.

And still to come, can you be guilty of racial profiling without ever seeing a person's face? How some landlords are accused of denying equal housing to minorities. You're watching CNN LIVE SUNDAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Welcome back. Checking the headlines now in the news. Republican Congressman Bob Ney of Ohio will temporarily step down as chairman of the House Administration Committee. Ney was implicated in the corruption investigation surrounding lobbyist Jack Abramoff. He has denied any wrongdoing.

And more than 1,800 people gathered in West Virginia today, to remember the 12 men killed at the Sago Mine. During a two-hour memorial service, a touching photo montage showed the men as they were in life; serving as fathers, husbands, and friends. Tonight, on a special edition of "Larry King Live," relatives remember the Sago miners. That's coming up at 9:00 Eastern, right here on CNN.

Chile has elected its first female president with more than 97 percent of the precincts reporting, Socialist candidate, Michelle Bachelet has won the run off election, defeating her billionaire conservative opponent. Bachelet, a one-time political prisoner, spent five years in exile after the 1973 coup that brought General Agusto Pinochet to power.

Almost five months after Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf Coast, many people are anxious to get back to their lives in New Orleans. But the question remains, just how much of the city there will be to go back to. Susan Roesgen reports on New Orleans' controversial rebuilding plan

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're ready, our folks are ready, we have the means to help ourselves, so don't get in our way and forbid us from doing that.

SUSAN ROESGEN, CNN GULF COAST CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): One by one, angry homeowners blasted the new blueprint for the city's future. The plan calls for teams of experts to go into neighborhoods hardest hit by the hurricane and estimate how many people plan to come back. Based on that number, the city will consolidate some neighborhoods and eventually abandon others.

Offering government funded buyouts to homeowners living in neighborhoods the city determines it can no longer support. Joe Canizaro, a banker, led the group that drafted the plan.

JOE CANIZARO, BRING NEW ORLEANS BACK COMMITTEE: We have a small city with less revenue, but we're giving our people the opportunity to make that determination by committing to return and by participating in the planning process that will make up their future neighborhood.

ROESGEN: Canizaro says the process will help people decide if they should come back. But some angry residents say Canizaro's committee has already made the decision for them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Joe Canizaro, I don't know you, but I hate you. I hate you, because you been in the background trying to scheme and get our land.

ROESGEN: The frustration comes from this: houses sitting empty, while people wait for the city to restore basic services like power and water. The city says it won't restore those services until people return. But Fred Yoder, who's been fixing up his home in the city's flooded Lakeview neighborhood, says the city has it backwards, people need the city's help before they commit to coming back.

FRED YODER, LAKEVIEW HOMEOWNER: This is a big audacious plan, it was put together by obviously very brilliant people, but guess what, you missed the boat. What we need is, we're in the mud, we're cleaning out our homes and all we're asking for is a little help and a little support. If you can't give us direction, get the hell out the way.

ROESGEN: The committee got an earful but now the ball is in the mayor's court. Since he chose committee members, he isn't likely to reject their plan, but he may change it. Susan Roesgen, CNN, New Orleans.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: The rebuilding plan recommended by the mayor's commission includes several ideas that would dramatically change the New Orleans landscape. Now among them, for example, a citywide light-rail system that would expand to the Louis Armstrong International Airport and the city of Baton Rouge. Now the plan would create several large parks which would also offer some flood protection.

And how much is all of that going to cost. Well, the report estimates more than $17 billion. Joining me now from New Orleans to go over some of the details, David Meeks, city editor for the Times- Picayune newspaper. David good to have you.

DAVID MEEKS, CITY EDITOR, TIMES-PICAYUNE: Hello.

LIN: It sounds like the plan is asking people to prove that their neighborhoods are viable and that they have four months to do this. Is that reasonable, I mean most of these people are scattered to the wind?

MEEKS: Well it is a tough time and we need to keep in mind of course we've had five months since the storm, so by the end of this process it really would have been nine months. I think what you're seeing is the commission acknowledging that it's just very difficult to predict who's going to come back to New Orleans and who intends to come back and stay for good. So they want to establish some sort of formalized process to take account and find out how these neighborhoods might look and what the density population might be.

LIN: What's the problem, is it a matter of money that they can't afford to restore power and water to every neighborhood?

MEEKS: What they're doing, I mean my home was in the Lakeview area, what they're generally doing is providing power into the area and then you need to be back in your home or in a FEMA trailer before they bring service to your exact house. So they do have the main thoroughfares powered up and ready to go, but it's still a question about when do they hook them up to the houses. So many of these houses are a long way from being repaired.

LIN: But it's kind of the chicken or the egg, right. I mean another cliche, it's a catch 22. I mean how are these people, you know they don't want to come back if they don't have services, right, but they can't get the services until they come back.

MEEKS: Well believe me, I've been there and that's exactly right. It's a very tough situation to live in, you had houses that have been gutted out, people want to get started. I think what you're seeing at these meetings is a lot of frustration. New Orleanians are resourceful people, they want to come home, they want to get back into their houses and they're finding that they've waited all this time to be told, we're going to wait four more months, that can be frustrating.

LIN: So what do you make of these accusations that this is really a land grab by a bunch of bankers and the city is in on the deal?

MEEKS: Well I think there's a lot of people who are committing on a plan that they haven't read. This is a highly complicated complex plan, some pages of our newspaper to try to lay it out for people. So a lot of the first comments you're hearing are being made from people who haven't really read it, no one's had a lot of time to become familiar with it.

Keep in mind, one of the things the plan does is it asks neighborhoods to get together, come to these meetings, get all your neighbors together and you make a stand, you tell people we're going to come back, here's how many of us there are. Now the big question is what is going to be considered evidence that people are going to return. Is there going to be an affidavit, is it going to be a building permit, how are you going to know that?

LIN: Will it take 10 people, 20 people, how many people, what's the threshold? MEEKS: Well I think that's a huge question, it's not too hard to predict what will happen to a neighborhood that's 10 percent of the people returning, that may not make it, or one that has 80 percent returning. I think one big question is, what if it's 45 percent, what if it's 40 percent, what's going to be the call? Who's going to make that call and are they going to let those neighborhoods fill in. There's going to be a lot of neighborhoods up here in a gray area.

LIN: Yeah, and are they going to be allowed to die and if so, where do those people go? I mean they get a payout, right, of some kind, and then they're supposed to go relocate somewhere else.

MEEKS: I don't think any of this is going to work unless there's some buyout mechanism that at least allows people the opportunity to get another piece of property, hopefully within the same neighborhood. I think we could see a place like Lakeview and the Ninth Ward, until it had a smaller footprint, but everybody who wants to be in those neighborhoods will still be able to do that. But without a buyout method there's no way to accomplish that.

LIN: Right, a lot of details still to be felled. David Meeks, thank you very much.

Imagine not getting the apartment that you want because of the way you sound on the telephone, it's called linguistic profiling, and we're going to examine the legal implications coming up. And then new evidence about the Donner Party and cannibalism. Could historians have gotten it all wrong? We'll find out.

Those who can use it every day, but does your voice affect the way people perceive you? And can it be used in a subtle form of discrimination? As our Jason Carroll reports, your voice may be saying more about you than you know.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, I'm calling about the sales position I saw at the (inaudible).

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What can you tell about someone, simply by the way they sound on the phone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, I'm calling to get information about mortgage rates.

CARROLL: A caller's gender might seem obvious, but what about other characteristics.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, I read your ad in the paper about the apartment for rent.

CARROLL: Like a person's race. It's a sensitive subject for James Robinson, a mental health professional living in St. Louis.

JAMES ROBINSON, APARTMENT SEEKER: The more I thought about it the more angrier I was becoming. CARROLL: Robinson believes he was denied an apartment because he says he has what linguists call an African-American dialect. This is the sign that you saw?

ROBINSON: This is a sign that was posted out front and I got the number that you see at the bottom, and that's when I made my call.

CARROLL: Robinson was told at first he'd reached an answering service, then he said, something else odd happens.

ROBINSON: Suddenly I hear the voices muffle in the background, and she was telling the woman I was on the phone inquiring about a two bedroom apartment. And the other woman asks, "What does he sound like."

CARROLL: Robinson says the woman then told him nothing was available and hung up.

ROBINSON: I just kind of sat there for a moment and just kept rethinking the whole conversation over and over.

CARROLL: Suspicious of his treatment, Robinson decided to conduct an experiment. He had a Latino friend call and then an African-American friend call the building both were told nothing was available. Then Robinson reached out to one of his white friends.

JIM LADD, ROBINSON'S FRIEND: James did call me and said, "Will you call this complex?"

CARROLL: He says, he called and got a much different response.

LADD: She said we do have some apartments available.

CARROLL: Robinson took his findings to the St. Louis Equal Housing Opportunity Council.

KATINA COMBS, FAIR HOUSING SPECIALIST: We definitely hear and see a lot about voice profilers.

CARROLL: The EHOC conducted their own investigation, finding similar results, and filed a complaint on Robinson's behalf with the Missouri Commission on Human Rights. An attorney for the building told CNN, "There is no evidence of any discrimination on my client's part. The building in question is racially mixed."

Would you call it a subtle form of discrimination or no, I mean maybe that's just my words, how do you qualify it?

COMBS: It's very subtle, extremely subtle. It's not like it used to be years ago, when you had signs in the yard you said for whites only or no colors allowed.

CARROLL: So, to keep tabs on voice profiling, the EHOC constantly run tests. On the day we visit, a white and black tester called a different building, where another complaint has been filed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you looking for yourself?

CARROLL: Both are asked about employment and the type of apartment they need. But the black caller is told he needs to check out the area first.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah, you can stop by here and see the area and if you like it then you can call us and we can show you the apartment.

CARROLL: He's then asked more questions, never asked of the white tester.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How much approximately, I don't want to know exact, but approximately how much you are making every month?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well I make about $31,000 per year.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And never had any problems.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, I've never been late on my rent.

CARROLL: The white tester is told of the apartment's amenities, never mentioned to the black caller.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it has washer and dryer in it, dishwasher also. Has (inaudible) also, self cleaning oven and a refrigerator.

CARROLL: In the end, the white caller is offered an appointment to see the unit, the black caller is never contacted.

JOHN BAUGH, PROFESSOR, WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: We've seen it throughout the country...

CARROLL: Professor John Baugh isn't surprised by the experiment's outcome, he's a linguistic expert, who has written extensively about voice profiling, and has run many tests of his own.

BAUGH: Using my professional voice I called around and was told please come and look at the apartments, but I would call back and I modify my dialect a little bit, you understand, and I would call and I'd say, "Hello I'm calling about the apartment you have advertised in the paper." And when I use that rendition, I found that I got less of a positive response rate.

CARROLL: Baugh says only through testing, accountability and education can there ever be change.

ROBINSON: It's pretty much a shame, you know that a person's not even given a chance to at least apply.

CARROLL: James Robinson's case is still pending, he says despite the effort he's put into this, it's been worth it, to show that a person's true character isn't determined by how they sound. Jason Carroll, CNN, St. Louis, Missouri.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Well my next guess says there are no laws that prohibit voice profiling. Avery Friedman in Cleveland, Ohio is an expert on the subject, he's a civil rights attorney and a law professor and he testified before Congress about voice discrimination.

Avery, so really, no law preventing it?

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: There actually are no laws prohibiting linguistic discrimination Carol, but there are laws that prohibit discrimination, especially in housing when it comes to race, color, religion and issues like that. So, usually when you see the sort of difference in treatment, the issue really isn't linguistics, it's really race.

LIN: How common is it?

FRIEDMAN: There was a federal study that was done that showed that two million Americans get the door slammed in their face every year. So we're dealing with a national epidemic. It's been 38 years since Congress enacted law Carol that tells us that housing discrimination of this nature is illegal. But for some reason, especially the smaller landlords, somehow think that they can get away with it, and when they're caught, they're some serious consequences.

LIN: Hard to prove though isn't it?

FRIEDMAN: Nope, it's not difficult at all.

ANCHOR: Well why isn't it, because if somebody calls and for example in the piece that Jason Carroll just did, you had a white applicant over the phone, you had a black applicant over the phone, right. The black applicant was told to look at the neighborhood and sort of evasively said check things out and get back to us. And the white applicant was offered the apartment.

But, you know, it could have been the landlord's mood that day, I mean who's to say that she was actively discriminating?

FRIEDMAN: Well, the fact that there's a difference in treatment, the way the law is set up, makes the landlord guilty, it creates what's called a prima face case. The burden steps to the landlord Carol, to prove that he or she didn't discriminate. And the way the law is set up is that if you're a victim of housing discrimination, you have immediate access to the courts.

LIN: If in fact that building that was presented in the piece was racially mixed, what would be the motivation of a landlord then to discriminate?

FRIEDMAN: Well, the fact that a building is racially mixed is really irrelevant to a federal district judge. What the law zeroes in on is the difference in treatment at the time of application. So let's look at what happened with James Robinson, he was told to look at the neighborhood, he was given some evasive responses. But when his white friend was asked to check, he was given an appointment. That statement by the white friend can be used to gain immediate access to the federal district court and under the law, what happens is that a federal judge will grant an injunction and hold the apartment without cost and give a hearing to the person who lost the apartment. So in the case of James Robinson, he would have been able to get the apartment he wanted.

LIN: OK, well good for our viewers to know that they do have rights and that they should bring this up and they can perhaps even challenge the landlord on the telephone to get better service.

FRIEDMAN: Absolutely.

LIN: Avery, thank you, great to see you, Happy New Year.

FRIEDMAN: Nice to see you too, take care.

LIN: Well in case you missed it, here are the highlights from the Sunday talk shows. Senator Trent Lott talked about his political future on CNN's "LATE EDITION." The Mississippi republican whose home was destroyed in Hurricane Katrina had indicated he may retire. But he's feeling the heat from fellow republicans who fear losing control of the Senate in the 2006 elections.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TRENT LOTT, (R) MISSISSIPPI: I spent the Christmas holidays in my state visiting with the people that I love the most, my relatives, my neighbors, the people on the Mississippi Gulf Coast that were devastated by Katrina. It's been a complicated decision because of all we've been through in the last year, but my heart is with the people there and I'm going to do everything I can to be helpful to them as long as it's necessary and I have that capability.

But any announcement on that I plan to begin with announcements in my hometown of Pascagoula, Mississippi on the Mississippi Gulf Coast Tuesday and then in Jackson later on in the day.

CO-ANCHOR: So you'll make an announcement one way or another whether you're going to seek reelection or retire?

LOTT: That's right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: We'll find out in a couple of days. And on NBC's "Meet the Press", the former U.S. Administrator in Iraq, Paul Bremer talked about his new book in which he says more American troops should have been in Iraq when Saddam Hussein's government was toppled.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL BREMER, FORMER U.S. ADMINISTRATOR IN IRAQ: Throughout the time I was there I was focusing on this question of combat capability. And more troops could have been better more trained Iraqi troops, there could have been more coalition forces. In the end, as it was, we had about the same number of troops when I left as when we got there. My concern at the beginning by the way, which is the opening of this book, was the looting that was going on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Now on ABC's "This Week", the Senate Judiciary Committee's Republican Chairman Arlen Specter offered this response when asked what could be done if President Bush was found to have sidestepped the law on government eavesdropping?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARLEN SPECTER (R-PA.) JUDICIARY CHAIRMAN: I'm not suggesting remotely that there's any basis, but you're asking really theory what's the remedy, impeachment is the remedy. After impeachment you can have a criminal prosecution. But the principal remedy George throughout our society is to pay a political price.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Remember every Sunday at 7:00 Eastern we're going to bring you the best headlines from the Sunday talk show circuit, so you don't have to watch four hours. One of the most infamous chapters in American history may have to be rewritten. Coming up, new information about the Donner Family and why they may not have resorted to cannibalism. From the CNN Center in Atlanta, you're watching CNN LIVE SUNDAY.

They believed it was their destiny to head west, but their story ended in tragedy and dishonor. Now archaeologists say new findings could remove the stigma from the Donner family. Our Anderson Cooper reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: It was April of 1846 and like thousands of Americans George and Jacob Donner and their friend James Frazier Reed heeded the call to go west.

JULIE SCHABLITSKY, ARCHAEOLOGIST: It will be a whole conscious of manifest destiny and being able to start a new life and a new life for your family.

COOPER: 32 men women and children left Springfield, Illinois and headed into the unknown in search of a better life. What they met with instead was disaster. Their decision to take a short cut left them stuck in the Sierra Nevada Mountains for months. The number in the party had risen to 87 along the way and with winter setting in and a shortage of supplies, they set up camp along two lakes in hopes someone would come to their rescue.

One by one, members of the Donner Party died from starvation, illness and cold... 46 in all. They ate everything they could, their pack animals, bones, raw hide and leather, even the Donner Family dog. And when there was nothing left, the story goes, they ate their dead. Instead of being praised as pioneers, the Donners would be remembered as cannibals, until now.

SCHABLITSKY: As archaeologists we did not find any evidence of not only cannibalism but human remains.

COOPER: Archaeologist Julie Schablitsky and Kelly Dixon spent two summers excavating the site of the Donner camp at Alder Creek.

SCHABLITSKY: At this point when we couched the historical record and with our archaeological finding, what we're looking at and understanding is that the Donners may not have had to turn to cannibalism because they were successful at hunting.

COOPER: And that is very good news for Lochie Paige, great-great granddaughter of George Donner.

LOCHIE PAIGE, DONNER GREAT-GREAT GRANDDAUGHTER: Oh I was... delighted is a good word. We're very relieved and joyful.

COOPER: While their findings don't exonerate all in the Donner Party from the charges, they do appear to exonerate the Donner family themselves. And that is all that Lochie Paige needs to know.

PAIGE: While cannibalism may be a part of their story, and I accept that, it is not the most important part of their story. Their story is a story of perseverance, courage and a dream, and they did what they could and what they had to, to reach that dream.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Alright, justice served. Now, what happens when gangs rule the street? "CNN PRESENTS: Homicide in Hollenbeck" that shows you what happens in the next hour. And then at 9:00 Eastern, it's a special edition of "LARRY KING LIVE" as we remember the Sago Mine victims. Hear from family members as they try to deal with their sudden and painful loss. And coming up at 10:00 Eastern, get an unprecedented glimpse into the life and true nature of Osama bin Laden. I'm going to speak with author and terrorism expert Peter Bergen about his new book. The hour's headlines when I come back.

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