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American Morning

Inside the Iraqi Government; 'AM Pop'

Aired January 17, 2006 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good to have you with us.

So what is really going on in Iraq, inside the emerging government, as it grapples with a country that teeters on the precipice of civil war?

Our Michael Holmes takes us beyond the headlines. Those headlines filled with word of more fighting and into the inner sanctum, to the president of Iraq, Jalal Talabani.

Michael, what was it like?

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was fascinating, Miles, I can tell you that. We had highly unusual access, unfettered access, you could say. Spent much of the day in what you could call the Iraqi west wing. I don't remember any TV crew having this sort of level of access to him for that length of time. We're in his translation office. Saw a letter from George Bush actually being translated from English into Arabic. We saw him meet with the Iranian ambassador, the U.N. ambassador.

Now we managed to speak with him one on one several times during the day. And he did tell us when it comes to the election, once results are finalized, he hopes that a government can be formed pretty quickly.

Let's hear what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Do you think forming the government could take weeks or months?

PRES. JALAL TALABANI, IRAQ: Weeks.

HOLMES: Weeks.

TALABANI: I hope. Sometimes I'm too optimistic, but I hope it will be weeks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: And he's an optimistic man. Weeks might be optimistic, but he says he thinks it can be done, and he's going to play a big role in that, of course, Miles. M. O'BRIEN: Tell us about his role. How big a role will he play in this new government, do you think, Michael?

HOLMES: It's a fascinating question. He is in a very important position. He is a Kurd, of course, and he's fully aware of the power of his position and the Kurdish people in general. They are going to be the mediators here, the ones who (INAUDIBLE), Talabani says, can bring all of the parties together, the Shias and the Sunnis, form a unity government. When it comes to the presidency itself, he does tell us he wants to continue as president. But here's the rub, he says only if the position is more than just titular. He wants powers. In his words, he says, "I'm not going to be a yes man." Whether he gets those powers remains to be seen -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Tell us a little bit about the security. We can only imagine as we think of the security around the White House what it must be like there.

HOLMES: Yes, he's inside the green zone. He works out of the green zone. It's a president, former Saddam presidential palace compound. Just to get into the green zone of course is major event. And then you're going through several more layers of security to get to see the president. And once you're actually in his compound, you go through, again, multiple layers.

I can tell you, I've been search add few times in this country, but this was probably the most thorough -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Tell me, just watching the people around him, were you impressed with him? Does he have good staff?

HOLMES: He does. And what's interesting, Miles. That's a very good question. He has people around him. He's a Kurd, as I said. They're not just Kurdish people around him, he has Sunnis, he has Shias on his staff. His advisers, his aides. He's very, very, if you like, egalitarian in who he is surrounded by. He is seen here as a uniter, and he's a man who's widely called "uncle" here. I can tell you, he's very informal. He has a great sense of humor, actually, very relaxed for somebody in his position with the responsibilities that brings -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, he sounds like he was rather approachable. Michael Holmes, fascinating.

Keep dribbling that stuff out. We look forward to more reporting on your time with him there inside what would be the West Wing here in Iraq.

(NEWSBREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

S. O'BRIEN: I want to tell you the story of Beda Kent. She is one tough mommy. She's a firefighter. Had to take a captain's test just hours, literally hours after she gave birth. Legally she had no choice. She either had to take the test then or wait two years for the next exam was offered. Joining us this morning Houston firefighter Beda Kent, her husband, Travis Kent, he's a also a firefighter, and little baby Breena (ph) Sue.

Good morning. Nice to see you all. Thanks for being with us.

Let's talk for a moment, Beda, about exactly what happened.

I know that you had sort of done the math, that the test was coming up at the same time really the baby was due to the born. You tried to get induced a few days ahead of time. And what happened? Didn't work?

BEDA KENT, HOUSTON FIREFIGHTER: Didn't work. Nope, my body wasn't ready. Cervix said otherwise. We went in the fourth. Her due date was the 7th. And on the 4th, the doc said it didn't look like it was possible that -- there was a bigger chance of failure if we tried to induce. And she would have had to take her by C-section. So we didn't want to go that route, and just let her do her thing and try to hold out, stayed in bed for the remainder of the time and studied. And...

S. O'BRIEN: Because this is an exam you've been studying a really long time for. I mean, the minute you find out about it, it takes literally almost a year to study for it successfully.

Travis, let me ask you a question -- the baby's born and all of a sudden Beda has got to go 12 hours later to take the exam. What did you do?

TRAVIS KENT, BEDA'S HUSBAND: Well, one of the first things I did was place phone calls, not only to my immediate family, to the union president, Roland Chavez, and pretty much let him know that we needed to go ahead and get phone calls made to the right people that were going to make the decision whether they were going to try to accommodate her at the hospital. It was a scenario we were hoping it wouldn't happen.

S. O'BRIEN: Meaning you could bring people in and with a proctor you could take the test, kind of sit in bed for the two-and-a-half- hour-long exam. They told you no, you couldn't. Did they give you any reason why they couldn't put it off for a week, or you know, what, a couple of days at least to give you a little break?

B. KENT: Well, I didn't want it to be postponed. I wanted to just be able to take the test. We went on the 4th after the doctor's appointment of no induction, we went straight to the union and let them know what was going to be a possibility. Didn't know how long she was going to hold out after the 7th, or after the 11th or what was going to happen. So we let them know the possibility of me being in the hospital.

S. O'BRIEN: What did they tell you about sort of the legal issue? I mean, did they give you a reason, we can't do this because?

B. KENT: No. Well, they didn't know. It was the first time it had ever come up. So they had to start making the phone calls. And they started with their attorneys and went to our fire chief with it. And he called their attorneys, and they went to the mayor's office, and their attorneys were talking. There was a lot of phone calls.

A lot of attorneys talking. At the end of the day, there you were in person taking the exam.

I'm going to ask you guys to hold on for one second, while we check in with Jeff Toobin.

Is there a legal issue here?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: There is actually, because Congress has said in Title VII, and it's been amended in 1978 to deal with the question of pregnancy, that you can't hold pregnancy against women, that you have to treat pregnancy like any other illness.

S. O'BRIEN: Meaning they should have given her a proctor and a hospital bed?

TOOBIN: Or a delay. Basically treat it like an illness. Now, what -- as I understand it, the Houston Fire Department exams, they do have exceptions for active duty military. So it's not like it has to be given on this precise day.

But if you're going to make some exceptions you have to make exceptions, I would think, for disability, as well. So I think pregnancy would be included and in normal circumstances they should just, you know, give her a week or someone else who was disabled for a week.

S. O'BRIEN: Do you think the Kents could sue and win successfully?

TOOBIN: Well, I think happily it sounds like Beda was a star under unusual circumstances. She did great on the test, so I don't think she has any damages. But not everybody is as tough or smart as she is.

S. O'BRIEN: Wow, yes, well, let's get back to Beda for a second. I have got to ask you. OK, I've had a couple of kids here. How did you go ahead and give birth and then 12 hours later you were sitting down for a two-and-a-half hour long exam?

B. KENT: Well, I had some Motrin. But, no, actually she came so fast I had barely time to have an IV in my arm ...

S. O'BRIEN: Really?

B. KENT: Yes, when we got to the hospital. So luckily I did not have any -- I wasn't going to do the injection.

S. O'BRIEN: No epidural, necessarily.

B. KENT: Yes, the epidural.

S. O'BRIEN: So -- which is good.

B. KENT: I didn't want to do the epidural at all. I was hoping for some IV pain medication, but we didn't have time for it. And, luckily, actually I thank God that I didn't, because I probably would have been groggy the next morning.

S. O'BRIEN: A little out of it. Yes, that's what I was going to say.

Well, you know, in some ways I guess Breena (ph) messed you up a little because she came out when she wanted to, but on the other hand came out so fast she sort of helped you out.

B. KENT: God's will.

S. O'BRIEN: Congratulations on your wonderful showing. Beda Kent and Travis Kent and, of course, little baby Breena, as well, and Jeff Toobin, of course, as always, for the legal advice.

We want to tell you, though, you know, they took a poll. We want to read you this poll. The "Houston Chronicle" took a poll to find out what people in the state thing about this policy about the firefighter exams.

Twenty-three percent said the state should give the woman a break. Forty-six percent say there should be some flexibility for childbirth. Nine percent weren't sure if the policy us fair. Fifteen percent say the rules apply regardless of gender and five percent say, what, we have to coddle firefighters now? I've got to tell you, if I've ever seen a woman who does not need to be coddled that is Beda right there -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, they are not saying that to her face, put it that way. Right? All right. She got a promotion that day to motherhood. That's the most important promotion, right?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MARKET REPORT)

S. O'BRIEN: Let's get right to Daryn Kagan. She's coming up next. Hey, Daryn, good morning.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. Straight ahead, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin stirring things up again saying, among other things, that Hurricane Katrina is a sign that God is mad at America. We want to hear what you think. Send us your e-mail to LiveTodayCNN.com. We'll read some of your comments on the air.

Also, to tell the truth, or in the world truthiness, in this case. More on the verbal volley over the word of the year. Who can really claim ownership? We'll get to that right now. The truthiness is that it's time to get back to AMERICAN MORNING.

S. O'BRIEN: All right. Thank you for that truthiness. I love that word. I didn't it, but now I do. I'm going to use it all the time. Thanks, Daryn.

M. O'BRIEN: It's Colbert reporting -- truthiness.

S. O'BRIEN: I like it. I like it. Much more AMERICAN MORNING still to come.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN (voice-over): Ahead on "AM Pop" -- the Golden Globes are in the books. We've got a complete recap. We'll run down the winners and the losers, the surprises and the snubs.

Plus is "Brokeback Mountain" already an Oscar lock (ph)? That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

S. O'BRIEN: Great fashion last night. We're going to talk about that a little bit later.

(CROSSTALK)

S. O'BRIEN: But we have a really exciting AM Pop this morning, because there's lots to talk about. The Golden Globes last night.

M. O'BRIEN: Here to talk about the winners and the losers, "Entertainment Weekly's" Jessica Shaw and Bradley Jacobs, "US Weekly."

And speaking of winners, six for six. I now bestow upon you the first ever "Ammy," 'A,' AMERICAN MORNING Ammy to Bradley Jacobs, six for six.

S. O'BRIEN: There's always next year, Jessica. Don't feel bad!

JESSICA SHAW, "ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY": I know. I'm a loser!

M. O'BRIEN: Congratulations.

Jessica, next year. There's always next year.

BRADLEY JACOBS, "US WEEKLY": Thank you. Well, yes, "Brokeback Mountain" did really well, didn't it? And the Hollywood Foreign Press Association completely teed it up to have an Oscar sweep. We'll know for sure on January 31st when the Oscar nominations come out, but it's likely to get the most Oscar nominations, and then, yes, it's likely to win best picture.

S. O'BRIEN: "Walk the Line," were you surprised at all? I mean, I know that you picked that, predicted it, but any surprise there?

JACOBS: There wasn't any surprise, because the Golden Globes divided into dramas and musical comedies, it was clear that "Walk the Line" was going to take that category. And the best part of the movie are the performances, Reese Witherspoon there on the left, and Joaquin Phoenix, you know, especially the duets together. The movie just comes to life beautifully. And no, I was not surprised at all that they won. And I think you're going to see Reese Witherspoon win the Oscar as well. Not sure about Joaquin Phoenix. I think that category is more likely to go to Phillip Seymour Hoffman, or possibly Heath Ledger.

S. O'BRIEN: He is already out in front on the Oscars.

(CROSSTALK)

M. O'BRIEN: You are feeling a little bold this morning, a little bold. He's got his Ammy.

Felicity Huffman, that was...

S. O'BRIEN: That was a nice speech she gave, I thought. It was really a nice speech.

JACOBS: Yes, that was the moment. You know, I think every award show has one or two moments if you're lucky. Last year, it was Jamie Foxx at the Golden Globes thanking his grandmother, and last night it was Felicity Huffman giving just a wonderful...

S. O'BRIEN: Fixing her dress.

JACOBS: Fixing her dress first. You know, she has to look right.

But she plays a male-to-female transsexual in the film, and she spoke up for the people in the margins over our society and encouraged them to be who they are, and that's the sort of golden moment that viewers and people in the Hollywood Foreign Press Association love.

M. O'BRIEN: It seems real, which is the real thing, right. It was nice to have a real moment, right?

S. O'BRIEN: Let's talk TV, shall we? Jessica, you didn't do quite so well on your picks.

M. O'BRIEN: We still like you, though, Jessica. It's OK.

S. O'BRIEN: We're not going to give you a trophy, because I think you did I think maybe just one out of your six.

SHAW: I think I did more like two.

S. O'BRIEN: OK, not so bad. "Desperate Housewives," you saw a bunch of them cheering for "Felicity" there. But they won best comedy series. That was it.

SHAW: They won best comedy series, but four of them were up for best actress, and that eventually went to Mary Louise Parker for "Weeds." I think they all divided the vote, so...

S. O'BRIEN: Couldn't pick one.

SHAW: Exactly.

S. O'BRIEN: She had a pretty fun comment as well, I thought.

SHAW: Right, she wanted to make out with everyone.

S. O'BRIEN: And then she said I'm the most desperate housewife. I thought that was pretty cute.

M. O'BRIEN: Everyone. Wow.

S. O'BRIEN: Hugh Laurie (ph) from "House" -- was that a surprise?

SHAW: You know, not really. It was such a close category. I went with Matthew fox. But Hugh Laurie really could have taken that. It was a such strong category keeper; Sutherland, I mean, there were a lot of good guys. So that's good that he won. I support that decision. Foreign Press, I'm OK with it.

M. O'BRIEN: You're OK with that. I do like that show.

SHAW: And he -- that, to me, that was the best acceptance speech of the night. He was so funny. He pretended that his wife had written the speech, and it was hilarious, and that show will do very well because of I think it's moving to a new night.

M. O'BRIEN: Good buzz on it. It's a good, fun show.

S. O'BRIEN: Geena Davis, I thought she looked stunning. I mean, she just did that red dress. Absolutely gorgeous. And she sort of said thank you for honoring a little show like ours. You know, I'm curious to know, does this translate into more viewership?

SHAW: Yes, absolutely. You know, it will for a show like "Commander in Chief," which hasn't been on -- it's been on for, what, only nine episodes only. And I think the TV -- on the TV set of the Golden Globes, there were a lot of shots this year. The Golden Globes really rewarded a lot of new shows and newcomers like "Commander in Chief" and "The Office," where the movies were somewhat predictable, so...

S. O'BRIEN: That was a good move.

M. O'BRIEN: Are we grading on a curve here, is that it, or handicap or something?

JACOBS: That's her argument.

S. O'BRIEN: Wow! Yes, that's not going to work at all. Take your statue back!

JACOBS: Okay.

S. O'BRIEN: There is always next year for you. So there is a takeaway. There is a real victor here.

M. O'BRIEN: Here is a ball of twine.

S. O'BRIEN: The AMERICAN MORNING ball of twine...

M. O'BRIEN: A consolation prize.

S. O'BRIEN: ... for those who don't get all six right, but get a couple. Thank you. OK.

SHAW: I think it will mean ratings, you know, for a lot of these shows, which is great.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, "Weeds" probably, especially, a little show that no one ever heard of, and maybe weren't watching.

SHAW: Sure. Right.

S. O'BRIEN: All right, well, that was fun to talk about. It's always nice to have AM Pop when we've got some good dish.

M. O'BRIEN: Congratulations to our winner and our first runner- up. Excellent. And you're on record for the Oscars already.

S. O'BRIEN: Already. Yes, you might want to, you know, think about that.

Thanks, you guys.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

S. O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody. We want to give you an update on what's happening in Georgia. We've been telling you about this hostage standoff. It appears that hostage standoff -- this coming from the Associated Press -- that hostage standoff is now over. Authorities say two suspects have surrendered. No details on exactly what was negotiated, how it ended or any details in fact on the lawyer who was being held hostage. You're looking at some pictures from WSAB, with what's happening there, an update. We're going to bring you some more details in our next hour.

We're back in a moment. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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