Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Who Was Really hit in Airstrike in Pakistan?; Nearly Simultaneous Attacks From Car Bomb and Suicide Bomber in Baghdad

Aired January 19, 2006 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.
I'm Miles O'Brien.

Soledad will be joining me from Washington in just a few moments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARY BETH CARROLL, DAUGHTER HELD HOSTAGE IN IRAQ: Her passion was so important. She is a young woman of convictions and a very strong young woman.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

M. O'BRIEN: That's the mother of the kidnapped journalist speaking with Soledad earlier. We'll hear more of that exclusive interview in just a moment.

So who was really hit in that airstrike in Pakistan on Friday?

As we see a picture of Jill Carroll there, the kidnapped U.S. journalist.

U.S. officials say at least one top al Qaeda lieutenant may have been taken out in that attack on Friday. We'll have more on that developing story, as well.

And how much is too much? Top companies break the bank for their CEOs. But do they really earn it? The debate over executive excess, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

We'll be with Soledad in just a moment.

She's on her way back to our Washington studios.

But we begin right now in Baghdad, as time grows short for the kidnapped U.S. journalist Jill Carroll. And as that happens, the whole dangerousness of the situation is underscored by more violence.

In the Iraqi capital today, at least 15 killed, 25 wounded. Nearly simultaneous attacks from a car bomb and a suicide bomber right in the heart of Baghdad.

Let's check in on that and on the efforts to get Jill Carroll released with Michael Holmes in Baghdad -- Michael, let's begin with Jill Carroll. What's the latest on that?

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we saw, a couple of hours ago, Al Jazeera airing more of that video that we already have a clip of. This part of the video shows her sitting on the floor, kneeling, in fact. She appears to be kneeling, surrounded by three armed and masked men. One of them seems to be reading from a statement.

Now, of course, this comes with the demands and the deadline now. Well over halfway into that 72 hour deadline. The demand, of course, that the U.S. releases women prisoners held here in Iraq.

From what we're told by U.S. authorities, there are only eight. Iraqi authorities say six of them were due for release anyway and they're saying that that's going through the system at the moment unrelated to the demands -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, thank you very much, Michael.

A little bit on the violence that has cropped up today.

what do you know about that?

HOLMES: Yes, this happened just a short time ago. In fact, one of our crews was very close by, a little more than a mile or so from where I'm standing now. A suicide bomber wearing an explosives belt and also a car bomb both went off simultaneously in the same area near a copy shop here in Baghdad.

At the moment, 15 dead, 22 wounded. It's a death toll that has been climbing in the last little while and probably will continue to climb. Not an unusual situation, unfortunately -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Michael Holmes in Baghdad watching it for us there.

And as we say, in just a moment, we'll have an excerpt of that interview with Jill Carroll's mother that Soledad conducted a little while ago.

But before we do that, let's check some headlines with Carol -- Carol, good morning.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Miles.

And good morning to all of you.

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton says it is time to go after Iran. The Democratic senator from New York told a crowd Princeton, New Jersey that it's time for the United Nations sanctions against Iran. She's accusing the Bush administration of downplaying the threat of Iran's nuclear program.

Doctors will run more tests today on a girl who was beaten so severely she ended up in a coma. There are reports, though, Haleigh Poutre is showing signs of improvement. The 11-year-old is at the center of a right-to-die battle we've been following.

Massachusetts' highest court says the state can take her off life support. She apparently still has a feeding tube inserted. The twist in this story is Haleigh's stepfather, Jason Strickland, is charged in her beating. If she dies, she could face murder charges. And from what we understand about her latest condition, she is breathing on her own.

Maybe the third time will be the charm, who knows? NASA making another attempt to launch that New Horizons probe to Pluto from Cape Canaveral, Florida. Two previous launch attempts had to be scrubbed, but, hey, what's a couple of days when the trip itself is expected to take 10 years?

And in Houston, Texas, a two hour car chase ends after the driver of a BMW got on a highway going the wrong way. And you can see what happened. He slammed into an oncoming car. A woman and a baby were inside that car and it looks like she goes after the driver before checking on the baby. But in the end, everybody was OK. The driver of that BMW was quickly arrested.

Back to you -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Dramatic scenes there.

COSTELLO: Wow!

M. O'BRIEN: Everybody's OK, though, right?

COSTELLO: Everybody's OK.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, thank you very much, Carol.

Let's get the weather check from Chad Myers -- Chad, good morning.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Miles.

(WEATHER REPORT)

M. O'BRIEN: Chad, stay with us.

You've got to listen to this story. Insurance fraud.

MYERS: Yes?

M. O'BRIEN: Insurance fraud schemes. It wasn't that I was thinking of you because of insurance fraud, but just wait until you see this. Insurance fraud schemes come in all shapes and sizes, and, at least in this case, depths.

Take a look at this car.

MYERS: Right, Seven Series BMW.

M. O'BRIEN: You like it? MYERS: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: You knew it, right? '97, 740I. A nice car.

MYERS: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: You'd like it, right?

MYERS: I'd love it.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, a car just like this has one man heading to prison in Ohio. Here's what the BMW looks like.

MYERS: Ooh.

M. O'BRIEN: And Ohio man decided he didn't want to pay to get the car's engine fixed, so he buried it. Buried it. It's kind of hard to watch, isn't it?

MYERS: Yes. And it's illegal because it's, what?

M. O'BRIEN: Illegal to bury it because there's this little insurance fraud issue. He got $20,000 after claiming it was stolen...

MYERS: Oh, I see.

M. O'BRIEN: ... when, in fact, it was planted. Three years later -- of course, it didn't sprout baby BMWs, did it?

MYERS: No. No Z4s.

M. O'BRIEN: No. It doesn't work that way.

MYERS: No.

M. O'BRIEN: No matter how much you water it out, there won't be a 320I that comes out of it. Three years later, someone finally ratted him out. To make matters worse, he was, of course, had to pay everything back, another $15,000 for the unearthing and an $8,000 repair bill. And, of course, there's that little prison thing.

So, kids, don't try that at home, huh?

MYERS: No. You've got to think that gas leaked out, too. Probably the EPA is out there, too. He is in a world of hurt.

M. O'BRIEN: It's now a super fund site.

MYERS: Right.

M. O'BRIEN: He is in real trouble.

All right, Chad, thank you very much.

MYERS: You're welcome. M. O'BRIEN: Coming up, we're going to check in with Soledad, who had that really gripping interview with the mother of the kidnapped journalist in Iraq. And we'll share some of that with you in just a little bit.

Also, NASA -- let's look up to the stars for a moment. NASA says the shuttle could be back in business this summer, maybe a July launch. But will it be a safe ride? Of course, that's relative. We're talking about space travel.

We'll talk to a former astronaut who is out with a candid memoir. He says the shuttle is dangerous, the most dangerous manned spacecraft ever. Would he go again? Sure.

And next, reports that al Qaeda's top bomb maker was killed in that air strike on Friday. If they're true, how big a blow would that be to al Qaeda?

That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: So just who was in the crosshairs of that attack Friday in the rugged mountains of Pakistan, right along the Afghan border. It's a lawless area where al Qaeda is known to operate. Initial reports were it was a misfire, an attempt to get the number two man for al Qaeda. He wasn't there. And instead, innocents died.

But now there is a new version of what happened there. The U.S. is saying that as many as three top al Qaeda lieutenants were in the vicinity at the time of that attack, were in the vicinity.

Now, among them is Midhat Mursi. He is believed to be al Qaeda's chemical, biological weapons expert, weapons of mass destruction expert. And he knows a lot about bombs, as well.

Joining me now from London is terror expert, Sajjan Gohel.

Sajjan, good to have you with us.

Trying to sort through all of this is very difficult.

What's your best take? Do you think this was a high level al Qaeda meeting?

SAJJAN GOHEL, SECURITY DIRECTOR, ASIA-PACIFIC FOUNDATION: Oh, well, Miles, as always in a situation regarding anything to do with al Qaeda in Pakistan, it remains murky. But it does appear that intelligence suggested to U.S. authorities that a high level meeting, as you suggested, was taking place amongst key members of al Qaeda, including Midhat Mursi, and that, as a result, an air strike took place in trying to eliminate these individuals, because it's believed they were actually planning new plots against Western interests in 2006.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, if that is the case, it was a well timed and well aimed attack.

Who else might have been there? Do we know?

GOHEL: Well, there are other individuals, like Khaleed Habib (ph). Now, he is an important person because he played a key role in helping Osama bin Laden and his deputy, Ayman el-Zawahiri, escape into Pakistan during U.S. Operation Enduring Freedom. And it's also believed that Ayman el-Zawahiri's son-in-law may have also been killed.

But we have to put a major question mark on all of this because the information is still very sketchy. We need proper U.S. confirmation on this. At the moment, it's coming from the Pakistani authorities. And, remember, initially they denied that any al Qaeda terrorists had been killed, that only civilians, in fact, had been targeted. So we still need proper clear confirmation on this.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, there is a motivation here, from the Pakistani perspective, the government of Pervez Musharraf, to portray this as a successful al Qaeda strike, because when it came out that it was potentially innocents, of course, it led to protests all throughout the country and difficulties for his regime.

Should we be skeptical of what the Pakistanis are saying about this?

GOHEL: Well, absolutely. I mean the -- it's inconceivable, initially, that the Pakistanis claimed they had no idea of the operation taking place. The U.S. could not conduct it without the knowledge and consent of the government.

Last month, in December, Abu Hamza Rabia, an al Qaeda member, was killed in a virtually similar type of attack using a Predator drone. At that time the Pakistanis took credit.

This time, because initially it was believed that civilians may have only been killed, the Pakistanis tried to extract the blame, pin it on the U.S. and, as a result, we saw very violent protests against Washington in the major cities of Pakistan.

This time now, it seems, that because it may have been successful, they're trying to jump back on the bandwagon again. We never know what takes place inside Islamabad, unfortunately. And that remains to be a big concern.

M. O'BRIEN: It's hard to have it both ways. They have a bit of a credibility issue here. But let's assume, for a moment, that there was some success here, that some key al Qaeda operatives, short of Ayman el-Zawahiri, the number two man, were killed.

What does that mean for al Qaeda and its operations?

GOHEL: It's an important question. For al Qaeda organization itself, it is a major blow. Midhat Mursi was a very important player. He trained people in explosives, such as Richard Reid, the shoe bomber; Ahmed Ressam, who, in fact, plotted to blow up L.A. Airport on millennium eve; as well as a host of other people.

But in the global scheme of things, al Qaeda has altered from being an organization. It's an ideology. You have different groups dispersed throughout the world with their own leadership, their own cell structure. They don't depend on al Qaeda to carry out an attack.

So it is a blow in some ways. But it won't end terrorism in the transnational, global scheme.

M. O'BRIEN: To the extent that Ayman el-Zawahiri got away, that is a blow, as well.

He's learned something, hasn't he?

GOHEL: Well, I think it shows that progress is being made. This operation in particular seemed to be completely devised from the U.S. which is why it was successful. In the past they've provided intelligence to the Pakistanis. Sometimes al Qaeda terrorists had then escaped. It's believed that some of that intelligence was leaked to them.

It seems the net is closing. We have to still be careful and cautious that these people have been killed. It's still not been confirmed.

But what we're seeing is that progress is being made in dismantling the organization of al Qaeda. But we also have to remember that for every terrorist killed or captured, there are another five coming along the assembly line.

So it is progress, but it's slow progress and we still have to wait and see what happens next.

M. O'BRIEN: Sajjan Gohel, who is a terror expert for us, joining us from London.

Thanks.

We have been, all morning long we've been telling you about that kidnapped U.S. journalist, Jill Carroll. The deadline looming. The kidnappers saying she had 72 hours to live if there wasn't a release of female prisoners in U.S. custody.

Just a little while ago, Soledad had the opportunity to speak to her mother.

She joins us now -- Soledad.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Miles, thanks.

Yes, earlier I spoke with the mother of kidnapped American journalist Jill Carroll. She was stoic. She was confident. She was firm. Mary Beth Carroll says she and her daughter actually talked about the possibility that one day Jill could be kidnapped. She also said if her daughter's abductors wanted to kidnap an enemy of the Iraqi people, well, then, they've picked the wrong person. (BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

CARROLL: Her passion was so important. She is a young woman of convictions and a very strong young woman. And if that's where her passion brings her, I can only be supportive of her and be proud of her for what she's doing.

S. O'BRIEN: But when she calls you up and says hey mom, I'm going to Baghdad and I'm going to report on the war that's coming, what did you say?

CARROLL: I said, Jill, don't be complacent. You've been there for a long time. Don't be complacent. Remember how to keep yourself safe.

She's the expert. She's been in Baghdad for two years. She knows better than I or anybody else, I think, in that case what she needs to do to keep herself safe.

S. O'BRIEN: All her friends that we talked to said that she was very careful...

CARROLL: She was careful.

S. O'BRIEN: ... that she was passionate, but also very, very careful.

CARROLL: Right.

S. O'BRIEN: Did you ever talk about security with her or did you sort of leave it at, as, you know, mom says be safe.

CARROLL: Oh, no.

S. O'BRIEN: You did?

CARROLL: Sure. We talked about even the eventuality of her being kidnapped. And that gives me some comfort now, to know some of the things that she knew and had talked with about other people vis-a- vis kidnapping. And, also, I told her frankly how I felt if she was kidnapped, what I would be thinking and supporting her and knowing that she was doing what she loved and what she thought was very important to do, and that that would give me and her family comfort at this time. And it does.

S. O'BRIEN: So she knows what you're thinking?

CARROLL: I think.

S. O'BRIEN: And you know what she's thinking?

CARROLL: I think. And I feel, also, after being in Baghdad for two years, that she knew what she was doing. She knew what the dangers were. She knew what the risks were. And she chose to accept those because what she was doing to communicate to the world the sufferings of the Iraqi people was important. S. O'BRIEN: What kind of stories were her passion, were her focus?

CARROLL: Well, you know, she did everything from interviewing the Sunnis to the Shias. She traveled all over Iraq doing the political scene. But, also, some of the stories I remember are about the schools that were being rebuilt and how some of them were falling apart and how that affected the education of children.

And I also was very moved by a family that she kept subsequently in contact with after doing a story who had a child who was injured.

So she had a very deep compassion, I think, for Iraqis, definitely for all human beings, but Iraqis in particular, because, of course, that's where she was.

S. O'BRIEN: So if her captors are listening, what do you want them to know? What do you want to say to them?

CARROLL: Well, that they've picked the wrong person. If they're looking for somebody who is an enemy of Iraq, Jill is just the opposite and her Iraqi friends can attest to that. And I think she was a wonderful ambassador -- is a wonderful ambassador -- to the United States for the Iraqi and Iraqi people.

S. O'BRIEN: And if she can hear you or see you, what do you want her to know?

CARROLL: Well, what she already knows. Those things have been said and she knows that we love her and we support her. She knows that we can be strong for her and we know that she's a strong woman and that her strength of character and her mind will get her through this.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

S. O'BRIEN: Jill's mother is obviously also a very strong woman.

We're going to have more on my interview with Mary Beth Carroll, Jill's mom.

That's coming up in the 9:00 hour.

And she's got a very specific message for her daughter's captors.

We'll share that with you coming up this morning -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, if the captors expected her family to be emotionally fragile, they're not getting that. A courageous woman is all that I come across with there.

S. O'BRIEN: Absolutely.

She clearly comes from some tough stock and they're holding up well, and obviously praying and hoping for the very best ending to this terrible ordeal. M. O'BRIEN: Thank you, Soledad.

Back with you in just a little bit.

Coming up on the program, soaring salaries for corporate executives. At one point, get this, former Disney boss, Mike Eisner, pulled down about $2 million a day. But is he or any other CEO, or anybody on the planet, worth that much jack?

That's next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: Well, there's that old saw about you work hard, you get paid accordingly, right?

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Um-hmm.

M. O'BRIEN: It doesn't seem like that's necessarily so. Or at least the equation has kind of broken down, at least when you get to the stratosphere.

Andy Serwer is here with, you know, to give you a little bit of outrage about executive excess.

SERWER: Yes, it's been Topic A for quite a while now, Miles, and shoes no sign of abating.

CEOs nowadays are getting paid just to show up, some say. In fact, a few wags are calling it getting paid for a pulse.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SERWER (voice-over): When Julia Roberts makes a movie, she gets big bucks, more than $20 million a film. That's OK. Her movies usually earn many times that. You could say she makes money the old- fashioned way -- she earns it.

But can the same be said for all those business executives who make millions? Are they really worth it?

Michael Eisner, the former CEO of Disney, once made $576 million in a single year. That's more than $2 million every day he went to work, which breaks down to about $275,000 an hour for an eight hour day.

According to the Corporate Library, in 2004, the highest paid CEO was Yahoo!'s Terry Semel, who hauled in close to $231 million. That's equivalent to the combined average salaries of about 6,000 American workers.

And it's getting worse. The pay of the average worker remained almost flat from 1990 to 2004, while the average chief executive pay has risen from almost $3 million to almost $12 million, a raise of 400 percent. While average American workers are having a tougher time making ends meet, CEOs are also getting perks. Who could forget ex-Tyco CEO Dennis Koslowski's infamous $6,000 shower curtain or his $15,000 umbrella stand in the shape of a three foot high poodle?

We also found out that perks don't necessarily end with retirement. Jack Welch, the former CEO of G.E. had use of a corporate jet, a company owned apartment overlooking Central Park, a limousine and a cook.

In the world of CEOs, it seems the more money you make, the less money you should have to spend.

To be fair, companies say we pay CEOs because they're worth it or we need to attract top talent. But there's often no connection between executive pay and corporate performance. A 2004 Rutgers University study analyzed more than 1,500 U.S. companies over a 10 year period. It found no correlation between higher executive remuneration and bigger gains for shareholders.

Wouldn't it be nice when execs say show me the money, they could prove they earned it?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SERWER: Now, the SEC, the Securities and Exchange Commission, has just proposed new rules, Miles, that will make it easier for investors, we hope, to see how much these CEOs are getting paid. They have to disclose more, which should lead to more transparency, which actually could reign some of this pay in, some say. Some say it won't do anything.

M. O'BRIEN: I'm betting they'll find a loophole.

I wonder, will these reports include things like shower curtain and umbrella stands, that kind of stuff?

SERWER: The important bathroom fixtures, you mean?

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, exactly. Yes.

SERWER: You know, they'll probably -- I agree, they'll probably find a way around them.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

SERWER: That's what they've always done.

M. O'BRIEN: The truth is no one, I think, could quibble with paying somebody for what, you know, on a merit basis.

SERWER: Right.

M. O'BRIEN: What you have earned for the company. The worst part is when you see these people who have brought companies right to their knees into bankruptcy and they leave with just huge, huge sums. That drives people nuts.

SERWER: $275,000 an hour. Is that you?

M. O'BRIEN: Yes. In my dreams.

SERWER: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: That isn't Mickey Mouse money, is it?

SERWER: No, it's big stuff.

M. O'BRIEN: Andy Serwer, all right, thank you very much.

Coming up, the space shuttle on its way toward the museums. NASA is planning 18 flights before that, though.

Is that a good idea?

We'll ask one of the original shuttle astronauts about that, Mike Mullane. He's out with a candid memoir about the early shuttle days.

Hey, we have a space quiz for you, Andy Serwer.

SERWER: Yes?

M. O'BRIEN: Who is the only U.S. president to be president -- present and president -- at a shuttle launch? Was it A, Ronald Reagan; B, George H. W. Bush; or, C, Bill Clinton?

SERWER: I'm going to have to go with Millard Filmore.

M. O'BRIEN: Millard Filmore, away ahead of his time, was there at the shuttle launch. The answer -- or well after his time, I should say.

SERWER: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: Stay with us for more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com