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Nancy Grace

Case of the Missing Groom Still Unsolved; Controversy Over Movie About Canada`s Serial Killer

Aired January 20, 2006 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, a primetime exclusive, a brand-new search for evidence on board the missing groom`s honeymoon cruise ship. World renowned forensic expert Dr. Henry Lee tries to crack the case of missing groom, 26-year-old George Smith. As you all know, Mr. Smith vanished from his honeymoon cruise. Dr. Lee and Smith`s family both with us tonight.
And tonight, outrage! A controversial and disturbing new movie tells the story of one of Canada`s most ruthless serial killers, a woman, Karla Homolka. She murdered and helped molest multiple victims, including her own sister. And now a movie -- a movie! -- glamorizes her murders.

Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Tonight, a real outrage. Karla Homolka and her new husband tortured and murdered young girls, including Homolka`s own sister. And now their crimes are reenacted. Why? To cash in at the box office. Shame! Shame! shame!

But first tonight, a primetime exclusive, retracing the final hours of missing groom George Smith. The 26-year-old American newlywed disappeared aboard a luxury Mediterranean cruise. Now tonight, we learn that forensic scientist Dr. Henry Lee will scour the luxury liner for clues and try to determine why has so little evidence turned up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want Royal Caribbean to (INAUDIBLE) what really happened that night. I think there`s been a cover-up.

EILEEN O`CONNOR, LEGAL COUNSEL, ROYAL CARIBBEAN: We actually didn`t clean the cabin for at least another six days at the end of the cruise. We kept it sealed, in fact, and off limits. And this was after the Turkish police had been there, done a full forensic investigation.

LANNY DAVIS, LEGAL COUNSEL, ROYAL CARIBBEAN: The Turkish investigators came in, took the forensic evidence, turned it over to the FBI. The FBI boarded the ship two days later, went into the room and praised the forensic investigation.

There are cameras trained all over the ship. I believe approximately 94 videotapes were turned over to the FBI, who are viewing them to see whether they can track the movements of these young men who were seen with this George Smith, taking him down the hall to his room.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Again, welcome tonight, a special night for us here at Nancy Grace. Not only is Dr. Henry Lee with us, the world renowned expert, but also the family of 26-year-old George Smith. Here in the studio with me, George`s family.

But first, to investigative reporter Jane Velez-Mitchell. Jane, bring us up to date, friend.

JANE-VELEZ-MITCHELL, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, Nancy, there is a sense that if anyone can solve this mystery, it is Dr. Henry Lee. As you mentioned, he is a very well respected forensic scientist. He has worked on some of the biggest cases out there, including the O.J. Simpson case. And on Monday, he will board the Brilliance of the Seas, and he will go to the cabin where George Smith stayed. He will look at the balcony where they found the blood. And he will bring his many decades of experience to bear, trying to reconstruct the crime scene, trying to use the evidence that`s been gathered so far, the photographs, the witness statements and key data like the weight of George Smith, to put it all together and crack this case.

And even though there have been a lot of restrictions placed on him and he`s only being given a couple hours, he believes he`s got a 50-50 shot. And let`s hope, for the sake of the family, that he does crack this case.

GRACE: To forensic scientist and colleague Dr. Henry Lee. Sir, welcome. Thank you for being with us. Henry, who asked you to work on the case?

DR. HENRY LEE, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Nancy, Jennifer Smith herself, and her lawyer, Jim Walker, asked me to assist.

GRACE: Here in the studio with me again, George Smith`s family. To his sister, Bree Smith. Bree, do you want to go with Dr. Lee? Are you planning to go with him? What are your thoughts?

BREE SMITH, MISSING GROOM`S SISTER: No. We`re actually not planning on going. It would be too painful for us to go on the cruise ship where my brother was murdered. You know, we`d rather leave it to the experts. And we`re just hoping for answers. We`re just very hopeful that Dr. Lee finds out some information in the mere two hours he was given by Royal Caribbean to get on the ship.

GRACE: I want to ask you something. You have been on the forefront, you and your mother and father, looking for justice, looking for answers. You`re not shying away from this...

B. SMITH: No.

GRACE: ... at all...

B. SMITH: No.

GRACE: ... which is very brave. A lot of crime victims -- and I speak on their behalf, as a crime victim -- want to curl up in a ball and try not to think about it. What about going on that cruise ship would be too painful for you?

B. SMITH: The thought of having to look for my brother`s blood. You know, I`m not able to look at the crime scene photos, as my mother is not able to. And the thought of having to go on the ship to look for blood -- because, you know, over six months later, we don`t have answers as to what happened to him -- is far too difficult for us.

GRACE: You know what? I, as a crime victim, have never returned to the scene of the crime. I just...

B. SMITH: Right.

GRACE: And it`s been many, many years.

B. SMITH: Right.

GRACE: It just would be torturous.

B. SMITH: Yes.

GRACE: It would be torturous.

B. SMITH: Yes.

GRACE: The other night, everybody, we had here on the show -- we`ve had them several nights, as a matter of fact -- lawyers for the Royal Caribbean cruise line. And Bree, George`s sister, has some responses for what their lawyers had to say.

Elizabeth (ph), do you have that sound for me? Let`s take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

O`CONNOR: We actually didn`t clean the cabin for at least another six days at the end of the cruise. We kept it sealed, in fact, and off limits this. And this was after the Turkish police had been there, done a full forensic investigation -- photographs, fingerprints, blood samples. They took, in fact, evidence from that cabin throughout the day when Jennifer Hagel Smith was off being interviewed by Turkish authorities. Before anything of hers was removed, they cleared that crime scene. They told us it could be cleaned.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: What do you think about that, Bree?

B. SMITH: Well, I think that`s very interesting because it`s completely contradictory to witness accounts. You know, recently, some witnesses came forward from down the hallway from my brother and Jennifer`s room that saw them in that cabin on numerous days during the six-day period when they said the room was secured, seeing them cleaning, wiping down, vacuuming. Additionally, I know of another witness that also saw something similar. So unfortunately for Royal Caribbean, once again, they`re going to be caught out in one of their own lies.

GRACE: And just so you, the viewer, knows, we invited Royal Caribbean to come on tonight. And when they realized the family would be here to respond to some of their statements, for some reason, they didn`t want to come on. Take a listen to what the legal counsel for Royal Caribbean had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

O`CONNOR: We had interviewed and pointed out passengers to be interviewed, and the Turkish authorities actually did do some interviews.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: You know, Bree, it was my understanding that a TV show -- now defunct -- Dean (ph), Ellie (ph), wasn`t it "A Current Affair"? Wasn`t that...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

GRACE: "A Current Affair," a TV show, was actually finding a lot of witnesses, and they had not been contacted by the FBI at that time or by the cruise line. Response?

B. SMITH: Well, I know that, for instance, the Turkish police did not even question the ear witnesses on either side of the cabin. Additionally, two of the gentleman that brought my brother back to the room, two out of the four, the two gentlemen that are from New York of Russian-American descent, were never questioned by the Turkish police.

So you know, I can`t comment as to the timing of when the FBI interviewed the witnesses or -- you know, I know that Royal Caribbean`s attorneys, to prevent a lawsuit, interviewed certain witnesses. My concern right now is the fact that the Turkish police didn`t interview key witnesses.

GRACE: Dr. Henry Lee, joining us tonight, do you really believe -- and I know you`re optimistic and I know you`ve cracked a lot of cases that many people thought were cold. Do you really think, after so many people have been in that cabin, that you will be able to determine and locate evidence?

LEE: Nancy, as you know, this became a cold case six months later. It`s very difficult case. I can feel the pain of the family. Of course, the family want to know what did happen to their loved one six months now. Of course, we cannot really give up, and I want to, you know, thank Royal Caribbean, at least let me to get on the board to look at it. We, basically, you know, hope to find some choice evidence. But I just learned the carpet has been removed and the room been changed. So I don`t know how many original furniture...

GRACE: Whoa! Whoa! Wait a minute! Dr. Henry Lee, the carpet has been removed? Where`s the carpet?

LEE: Apparently sent to FBI.

GRACE: Do you think that the FBI will give you access to look at the carpet?

LEE: I don`t think so. But when they`re finished, I do plan to look at the carpet.

GRACE: Hold on just a moment, Dr. Lee. Here in the studio with me, in addition to George`s sister, Bree, his mom and dad. And his dad is shaking his head back and forth. You don`t think the FBI, with an FBI chaperone, would allow Lee to -- why?

GEORGE SMITH III, MISSING GROOM`S FATHER: They just -- they`re not going to do it. They keep everything private. Like, we had a meeting today with the FBI. We went in asking for answers. We came out with no answers for an hour. The FBI keeps everything very quiet. You know, when Royal Caribbean says the FBI has said this is approved and not approved? Excuse me, but the FBI says nothing. They`re very quiet, and they would rather the media just quiet down to nothing. That`s the way they would rather operate. So when they come back and say the FBI is -- I mean, the FBI -- excuse me -- the FBI has approved this, basically, they haven`t. They say nothing.

GRACE: You mean Royal Caribbean is saying the FBI has approved various things, and that`s not true? Like what?

G. SMITH: The statement -- different statements they`ve come out with and come across -- they`ve said that this has been approved by the FBI. They do not approve anything...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: What, Bree?

B. SMITH: There`s an eight-page press release that Royal Caribbean put out...

GRACE: I saw that.

B. SMITH: ... and it was...

GRACE: With a timeline and...

B. SMITH: ... the time sequence. And you know, it was reported that the FBI had approved the dissemination of that, and that was not the case.

GRACE: Well, this is what disturbs me, guys, is that I know for a fact "A Current Affair," which was just a syndicated TV show, was actually reaching witnesses that knew things that had not been contacted by the FBI. Now, I would like to place my faith in the FBI. I want to. I want to trust them. I want to believe they`re doing the right thing. But when they haven`t located the witnesses and a TV talk show has, that`s a little disturbing.

You know, Bree, you said something very interesting. Everybody, in case you don`t remember, a next-door neighbor to George Smith and his bride, Jennifer, heard a loud thud in the middle of the night. And Bree has just stated that there are ear witnesses -- they didn`t see it, they heard it -- were not questioned by Royal Caribbean. Why is it so significant to you that these ear witnesses be questioned?

B. SMITH: Well, I think they were not questioned by the Turkish police. I`m sure that Royal Caribbean eventually got to them in anticipation of a possible civil lawsuit. They sent their Florida lawyers on the boat, and you know, questioned witnesses.

I think that`s so important because, you know, no one that was in the room at the time of my (ph) murders is obviously confessing. So it`s crucial to get to the ear witnesses. And the fact that the Turkish police did not interview those ear witnesses is very concerning.

GRACE: They also could define a timeline.

And very quickly, to Renee Rockwell. Renee, you know how I, as a prosecuting attorney, want to go over the crime scene myself, even after cops have gone through it, even after crime scene techs have gone through it, because you have to look up under the bed. You have to look at the frame of the bed. You have to get down on your knees and look at the legs to the bed, the bottom of the chairs, up under the chair. You have to open the closet door. You have to get in the closet and look along the floor of the closet, up all the walls. You have to even look up at the ceiling. You know why? Because there could be blood spatter.

And to the Smiths, I`m sorry to talk to you about blood spatter, but I know you`re interested now in solving this case.

Renee, isn`t it a true, a cursory look at this cabin will not stand?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s not going to stand, and that`s why Dr. Lee -- first of all, he wants to go there because if he`s got the opportunity and maybe even the benefit of speaking with some witnesses, he will have already gotten the feel of the crime scene. You have to go there, Nancy. Rule number one, go to the crime scene.

GRACE: Everyone, with me here on the set, some very special guests. They are crime victims in a highly publicized case called the missing groom. But it`s not just the name of a story, it is about a 26-year-old man that I believe has lost his life on a Royal Caribbean cruise ship.

Very quickly, to tonight`s "Case Alert." Disturbing news in the case of Nixzmary Brown, the little 7-year-old Brooklyn girl. We featured her here last night, the mother and stepfather accused of the child`s murder. Well, in a jailhouse interview -- sit down if you`re standing -- the stepfather, Caesar Rodriguez (ph), says he beat the 7-year-old child for her own good. Repeat -- her own good. I fully expect to hear that statement replayed the next time in front of a jury.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER HAGEL SMITH, WIFE OF MISSING GROOM: I do not remember the last, you know, words or time we saw each other. I remember very vaguely leaving the casino area to go to this revolving bar or something like that. I was around George, and then I remember nothing. That is extremely haunting to me, especially when people can say that you were doing anything and you can`t recollect something and that`s frightening.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. The case of the missing groom rages on, still a mystery. This 26-year-old man, the prime of his life, a high school football star, just married, on his cruise, a dream cruise to the Mediterranean, goes missing after a night of partying, drinking and gambling, which is done on cruise ships. That`s not a felony. Next thing you know, he`s missing and there is blood found on the side of the cruise ship and in his state cabin.

Elizabeth, do you have that sound ready for me? The other night, Royal Caribbean lawyers were on our show. When they found out the family was going to be here tonight, they -- they -- they couldn`t make it! Take a listen to this.

OK, Elizabeth, I asked for sound? We`re trying to pull up what the Royal Caribbean lawyers said last week. Do you have it yet, Liz? OK.

Bree, when you saw these statements, what were your thoughts?

B. SMITH: Well, I think one of the things that Eileen O`Connor, Royal Caribbean`s legal counsel, said that was so painful to our family, as well as other families of cruise victims, was when she diminished the importance of the hearings in Washington. You know, we`ve had one hearing, Nancy, December 12 in Washington, and we`re having another hearing the first week of March. And in the second hearing, there`s going to be testimony, oral testimony from victims` families.

And when Eileen O`Connor said, Nancy, there`s hearings in Washington every day, you and I both know that that was painful to us as a family because, you know, we`ve worked very hard to try to make a difference so that this doesn`t happen to other families. And Congressman Christopher Shays and his staff have worked very hard to put this together. And obviously, they think it`s very important, Nancy, and I think that it`s very typical of Royal Caribbean to try to diminish the importance of these hearings, but I know that my family and the other families of cruise victims think that they`re essential.

GRACE: You know, speaking of congressional hearings, I was just in Washington, trying to get the Child Safety Act of 2005 passed. And I was there with Druso Jean`s (ph) mother, Jessica Lunsford`s father, Mark Lunsford, Marc Klaas was there, John Walsh, all of us crime victims. And to think that that would be tossed aside because there are, quote, "congressional hearings every day," is very -- I -- it`s very -- very hurtful.

Liz, do you have that sound for me? OK, dear. Roll it, please.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

O`CONNOR: Cruising is actually very safe. I know you have those statistics, but understand that these are floating communities. At any given time, Royal Caribbean has 60,000 people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Bree?

B. SMITH: Well, Congressman Christopher Shays, in the hearing on December 12, said that the statistics given by the cruise lines, which are self-reported, are unreliable. And you know, for cruise line employees to go on TV and say how safe the cruise ships are, based on these statistics, is just not good enough because the statistics lie, Nancy, because they`re self-reported. And of course, there`s -- they have an interest in keeping back the true numbers.

GRACE: I know it must hurt you to look at that shot of blood that could be your brother`s, and only tempered by your quest to find justice. Now, we have just learned that Royal Caribbean cruise lines says they`re not doing any more press. So you`re not going to get to take them one on one.

Mr. Smith, that made you laugh. Why?

G. SMITH: Because they haven`t been doing too well in the press. Every time they`ve come on, we`ve been able to show that it`s not a truth that`s being brought out and they`re covering up whatever is being shown, just like the Sandlers. You go down one more cabin, five to six. Now, come on. Let`s be realistic. These Sandlers know exactly which cabin, like everybody else on that boat knew that George`s cabin was 90, what is it, 62? Everybody on that boat went by that room. The Sandlers were five cabins down. They know exactly which cabin it was. And Royal Caribbean can`t live up to it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAUREEN SMITH, MISSING GROOM`S MOTHER: We just (INAUDIBLE) disbelief. We just thought, It can`t happen. We just thought, He`s somewhere else on the ship. We thought, you know, maybe he`s in -- you know, in a deck chair somewhere. We just -- disbelief. It was just disbelief.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. Thank you for being with us tonight, a special primetime exclusive. George Smith, the so-called missing groom, family is with us here on the set. Also with us, world renowned expert Dr. Henry Lee. He plans to retrace Smith`s steps on the cruise ship.

Very quickly, to a maritime expert joining us now, Jeffrey Maltzman. Sir, thank you for being with us.

JEFFREY MALTZMAN, MARITIME ATTORNEY AND FORMER SHIPBOARD EMPLOYEE: Thanks for having me.

GRACE: Jeffrey, do you believe that Royal Caribbean is truly cooperating as best as they can?

MALTZMAN: Nancy, I do. I have known the people at Royal Caribbean, having worked as their attorney, although not on this case, for 15 years. I worked aboard their ships for five years before that. And everybody in that company that I know cares passionately about the safety of their guests and about finding out what happened to George Smith.

You know, I think we often lose sight of the fact that it was Royal Caribbean who called the Turkish police, they called the FBI, they called the Greek coast guard, they called the U.S. consulate. This was not a company that was trying to cover something up, it was a company that wanted help finding out what had happened. They had a mysterious disappearance. There wasn`t obvious evidence of a crime. Nobody knew if this was an accident or foul play.

And they did what I think any responsible company would do, and I think they`re continuing to, even the fact that they`re allowing Dr. Lee to come aboard their ship. He doesn`t work for the FBI. It`s the FBI that is charged with solving the mystery, but Royal Caribbean...

GRACE: Oh, please!

MALTZMAN: ... sympathizes with the family.

GRACE: Mr. Maltzman, how horrific, what a PR nightmare it would be for them to refuse Lee entrance on this ship! Are you kidding me?

MALTZMAN: Well, I think that the reason for allowing him aboard is primarily out of sympathy for Jennifer and her desire and need to feel that she is finding out the truth. And apparently, from what I heard from the family today on your show, they`re frustrated that the FBI isn`t sharing with them the information that the FBI has. Hopefully, Dr. Lee can give them some answers that maybe the FBI isn`t willing to share at this point.

GRACE: With us, maritime expert Jeffrey Maltzman.

Bree, I`ve got 20 seconds before our next break. Response?

B. SMITH: Well, I just think that the level of the Royal Caribbean cover-up is so extensive that, with all due respect, your guest`s comment is ridiculous. We have a witness that saw them scraping away the blood before the Turkish police got on the boat.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER HAGEL-SMITH, BRIDE OF MISSING GROOM: I remember coming out and being approached by these men and having them just say, "You know, we are looking for George, and we found blood," and whatever. We now have reason to believe that there`s some blood in the room.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. The case of the missing groom still unsolved. Renowned expert, Dr. Henry Lee, plans to board Brilliance of the Sea to find clues himself. Tonight with us, in addition to Dr. Lee, George Smith`s family.

Before we went to break, a bombshell I had not heard before from Bree. This is George`s sister. Your understanding, there was a witness who saw what?

B. SMITH: Yes. A witness has come forward and said that they saw Royal Caribbean employees scraping, hosing and wiping down the blood that was on the overhang several hours before the Turkish police even got on the boat.

GRACE: Dr. Lee, inexcusable to scrape, wipe, hose, touch, breathe on forensic evidence. They should have cut that out, the awning, cut out whatever surface there was, and preserve that. Am I crazy? Or do you agree with me, Dr. Lee?

LEE: Under a crime scene, definitely I agree with you 100 percent. We should remove this piece of -- portion of the canopy. Of course, that`s a cruise ship. At least they should have something cover that and protect that until the law enforcement on board start examine the evidence.

Also, we should have some reference point and a measurement exactly what the size of the blood stain, the diameter, and based on the size and diameter, the exact volume, maybe we can determine. From the volume, we can determine what type of a injury. Without that information, this case become very difficult to reconstruct.

GRACE: Yes. He`s talking about the volume, the amount of the blood. You can also determine the angle from which the blood came.

LEE: Yes.

GRACE: If you`re in the cabin, you could determine whether there is spatter, which would indicate a violent blow or even a gunshot. I can`t stress how important it is to look at the actual blood and its pattern, the pattern, the spattering of that blood, to determine the nature of the wound.

Here on the set with me is George`s mother. Ma`am, Maureen Smith, why are you here tonight?

M. SMITH: We`re here tonight because we want justice for Bree`s brother and our son. And we`re just going to keep on coming and coming and coming. We are not going to go away until we find answers to what happened to my son on that ship on that night. Something very bad happened to him. And we`re just going to keep coming out here until we can get answers.

GRACE: To Bret Rivkind -- he is the Smith family attorney -- sir, thank you for being with us. You`ve got a heck of a trial record, Bret. My question is, it`s amorphic, the more I grab for it, it gets just out of reach for me.

I`m trying to figure out, where was the bride? Where was Jennifer Hagel when the witness next door heard the thud? Where was she?

I understand that she was found later passed out in a hallway or one of the decks. But, you know, there are employees walking around that ship all hours of the day and night. When did she emerge? Did she come there - - did she pass out there five minutes after the thud, an hour before the thud? I`m trying to get the timeline down. Where was she during the thud, Bret?

BRET RIVKIND, SMITH FAMILY`S ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, all I can really tell you is I think what you`ve seen out in the media, which is when she was found. And she has stated that she has no recollection of any events before that. S that`s all that we can really rely upon at this time, when she was found and when she was taken back to the cabin.

GRACE: What do you hope to gain by Dr. Henry Lee going to the cruise ship?

RIVKIND: Well, we hope that he can see if any evidence has been left, can get an idea, when he takes witnesses` accounts of what occurred, and, as you said, how important it is to actually see the crime scene and put the pieces of the puzzle together.

We are hoping, as Mr. Maltzman said, that Royal Caribbean`s allowing us to go on the ship -- with a lot of conditions, by the way.

GRACE: Which are?

RIVKIND: Well, especially time. We`re limited to two hours, at the most.

GRACE: Why? Why? Why do you, the family of George Smith, have to be limited in time? What, do they want to put somebody back in the room?

RIVKIND: And they`re limiting -- exactly -- and they`re limiting things he can actually do. Well, the same question comes, Nancy, why were the Turkish police only given two hours on board for a forensic investigation? And why did that ship have to sail that day so quickly before the FBI got on?

I`d like to point out Mr. Maltzman said they called the FBI, Royal Caribbean. What he didn`t mention was, you know who they called before they called the FBI? They called their risk management department in Miami, and their litigation team started right away...

GRACE: Ruh-roh!

RIVKIND: ... getting on the airplane. So who was more important to them, the FBI or their risk management department?

GRACE: To George`s father, what were you saying?

G. SMITH: We know that George is an American citizen and his crime was out on international waters. Supposedly, the Turkish police had to go to a court to get on that boat. So they weren`t even sure that they were supposed to be on that boat.

GRACE: Wait, wait, wait, wait. They wouldn`t even let them on? Are you kidding me? It seems they would welcome the police on with open arms.

G. SMITH: I`m not sure if they didn`t welcome them on or they weren`t sure that they should have been on. That`s another thing, we`re...

GRACE: Did I hear you correctly that they had to go to court to be allowed to go...

(CROSSTALK)

G. SMITH: From what I understand, they had to go to court to get on the boat.

(CROSSTALK)

B. SMITH: ... own statements.

GRACE: Wait, wait, wait, tell me?

B. SMITH: Apparently, the Turkish police went to the court to get permission to investigate. And this explains why there was four hours between the time that the blood was discovered on the overhang, if we believe Royal Caribbean`s time line that it was discovered at 8:30, to when the Turkish police actually got on the boat at 12:30. That gives them four hours to contaminate that crime scene before the Turkish police even got on the boat.

GRACE: To Jeffrey Maltzman, response?

MALTZMAN: ... fabrication to imply that Royal Caribbean delayed the Turkish police coming on board until they went to some court. If the Turkish police procedure was they had to do that, I can`t answer that.

But Royal Caribbean called the Turkish police. They were the ones that called them and said, "We have a possible crime. Please come aboard and investigate." And they were given all the time they needed. And the canopy was only cleaned after they had taken photographs, taken samples, taken measurements, and then told the company, "We have all the evidence we need."

GRACE: Mr. Maltzman, I`ve got a question for you. Why do you think it is that Dr. Henry Lee is going to be limited to two hours in his inspection of the entire ship? Why is that?

MALTZMAN: Well, I wasn`t the one who invited him or talked to the conditions. And I don`t know that that`s, in fact, true, but what I can tell you...

GRACE: Well, he`s here. He just told us.

MALTZMAN: ... what I can tell you is that the ship is only in port in Miami for a number of hours on the day of his inspection.

GRACE: Well, I`m sure Dr. Henry Lee would not mind a little cruise.

Dr. Henry Lee, explain to me, what are the limitations on your inspection?

LEE: I don`t know exactly. Of course, I would like to...

GRACE: Well, hold on. I know who does know. Bret Rivkind, the Smith family lawyer, give it to me in a nutshell, Bret. What are the limitations on Henry Lee?

RIVKIND: Well, we know that he`s limited to two hours, Nancy. And the ship`s going to be there all day, I think eight hours. So, Mr. Maltzman, it`s going to be there for eight hours. We know it`s limited to two hours...

GRACE: You mean, he`s got to go over the whole ship in two hours?

RIVKIND: Yes. And he`s not permitted to do certain testing that he wants to do, either.

GRACE: Like what? Like what?

RIVKIND: Dr. Lee can explain to you what he wanted to do, for example, with a dummy or a mannequin. He`s not going to be permitted to do that.

GRACE: What did you want to do, reenact it, Henry?

LEE: Yes. Well, I was thinking, you know, often time we have cases, we use mannequin with the same size and weight...

GRACE: Yes.

LEE: ... and we try to see what the nature fall, where the bodies...

GRACE: Well, actually...

LEE: ... land with somebody pushing or somebody threw the body and try to get some general idea.

GRACE: You know, you`re absolutely right, Dr. Lee, because in the confines of a small ship cabin, certain injuries may actually be impossible.

And very quickly to Dr. Paul Schienberg, forensic psychologist, what is the likelihood that Lee will find new evidence?

PAUL SCHIENBERG, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: I don`t know Dr. Lee`s business, per se, but I think so much time has passed by that the idea of how much he`s going to find, it`s going to affect -- is probably pretty minimal. But I assume that Dr. Lee is going because he has hopes that he can find something and make an impact on this case. So I think, given the circumstances is low, but any shot is worth it.

GRACE: You know, you`re absolutely correct. Now, here`s what Royal Caribbean has to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Doesn`t that bother you, as a lawyer, that your client is part of an industry that has gotten so out of control with crime they`ve got to have congressional hearings?

O`CONNOR: You know what, Nancy? I lived in Washington for a very long time. And there`s congressional hearings on an awful lot of things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Response?

M. SMITH: That`s disgusting.

B. SMITH: We`re outraged. We`re outraged.

G. SMITH: I mean, it`s unbelievable.

M. SMITH: And for the other victims, their families. They`re relying on these hearings to try and put an answer to what happened to them.

G. SMITH: And the future people that are going to suffer from crimes on the boat, they want to know that they`re protected.

M. SMITH: It`s so important.

G. SMITH: And Congress needs to pass laws to protect these people.

GRACE: They certainly do. And what is disturbing me -- and right now, Royal Caribbean, you`re more than welcome to give us a written statement, call our producers. You know how to get in touch with Elizabeth. I know that for a fact, right, Elizabeth? Where`s my Liz-Cam? She says yes.

Why are you only allowing Dr. Henry Lee two hours to do his business, a world-renowned scientist? Why are you putting limitations on him?

Bree, that`s got to leave you feeling very insecure about the ability for Dr. Lee to actually do his job.

B. SMITH: Yes. And what I also feel insecure about is, apparently, the Turkish police also only took a little over two hours doing their forensic examination from the information we`ve heard. So we have the Turkish police, the initial authorities on the boat, only on the boat for a little over two hours. And then Dr. Lee also given only that amount of time.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I got my university degree, you know, just last month.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Karla," the movie, is, for the most part, true to life, deriving its script from court documents and the horrifying home videos recorded by Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some things are worth dying for.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I forgot my key again. I`m locked out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In a word, the movie is disturbing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I did kill somebody. I killed my own sister. How can anyone ever be forgiven for that? I think about what I did every day. I really do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Oh, boo-hoo. She thinks about what she did every day? She helped kill her own sister and more. Before I go to Karla Homolka, who`s now got a movie about her, I want to say a special thank you to George Smith`s family, who is with me here on the set, for speaking out, not only on behalf of George Smith, but on behalf of all crime victims who do not have a voice.

And speaking of crime victims, Karla Homolka is one of Canada`s most celebrated serial killers. Straight to Jane Velez-Mitchell, investigative reporter, please tell me that Ellie is wrong, one my journalistic producers. Please tell me there`s not a movie coming out tomorrow that glamorizes Karla Homolka?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have to tell you, Nancy, there is a movie coming out. It`s hitting 100 theaters in Canada, and it is causing a huge controversy.

The movie is "Karla," and it is based on the real-life story of Karla Homolka and her husband, Paul Bernardo. This was a serial killer couple in the early-`90s. They committed some horrific crimes. It makes your skin crawl to read about it.

They kidnapped two school girls. They tortured them. They raped then. They murdered them. They also raped Karla`s own sister, 15-year-old Tammy. She choked on her own vomit. I have to tell you, it`s sickening to even read about these cases.

Now, Paul is serving life in prison. But Karla, she managed an amazing plea bargain, served 12 years, was recently released. And now the movie about her is triggering sort of a re-experiencing of the emotions that Canada went through. They feel she is sort of the demon of Canada.

GRACE: To Michael Sellers, producer and co-writer of "Karla," number one, I hear it`s "Karla," like Cher, or Sting, or Elvis. Is she that big in Canada? And why do you want to do this movie?

MICHAEL SELLERS, PRODUCER AND CO-WRITER, "KARLA": Well, I think that Canadians can describe how big she is better than I can. I wanted to do this movie because we saw a "Monster" in the theaters. That was the first time I ever even thought of doing a true crime movie.

GRACE: That`s your reason?

SELLERS: That`s the beginning of my thought process. And after that, I looked into it. And I came to believe that this is one of the most compelling true crime stories that has never been produced. Many people also feel that way. We undertook the film.

GRACE: To Tim Danson, attorney for the victims` families, thoughts on the movie?

TIM DANSON, ATTORNEY FOR HOMOLKA VICTIMS: ... of course are very disturbed that the movie was made, and they`re obviously very upset that the movie is now going to be shown in Canada, but they recognize that we live in a free and democratic society. And free speech constitutionally protects the production of this kind of movie. But they don`t have to like it. And they`re concerned also very much about the accuracy of the movie.

GRACE: Well, I would be very concerned, as a crime victim myself, to have to relive it on the big screen and know that somewhere, somebody is making money off a bloody crime. Three murders, three rapes, of young girls.

I want to go now to Lorne Honickman, investigative reporter and legal specialist. Homolka is out. She`s out and about. It is also my understanding that, after just 12 short years on -- let`s see, was she prosecuted on two murders or three? Two murders. She`s never been prosecuted for her sister`s murder. All conditions have been lifted on her. In fact, she was last seen getting her passport. Please tell me she`s not heading to the U.S.

I think I`ve got Lorne. Go ahead, dear.

LORNE HONICKMAN, HOST, LEGAL BRIEFS, COURT TV CANADA: Yes, you do. She`s somewhere in Quebec, apparently, here in Canada. She`s walking free. She has no conditions on her. When she first got out of prison, they tried to and they were successful, the crown in Quebec, to put conditions on her release. And I know Tim was very happy about that.

But an appeal court overruled it, said that there was no real evidence that she posed a real and imminent risk to society. She`s walking around. Nobody knows where she is. And that`s the problem, Nancy. That`s why it hits the psyche of the Canadian people with Michael`s movie, is because, from coast to coast in this country, everybody feels there was an injustice. And that`s what it is.

I think Misha, who`s the star of this movie, said that it`s like an extended family up here to the French and (INAUDIBLE) families. And that`s why it`s...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Please, you know, I take great offense on behalf of Canadians that have suggested that she -- they are related to Karla Homolka. Another thing...

HONICKMAN: No, no, no, not related to Karla Homolka. To the families, because they feel....

GRACE: OK. I got you.

Hey, Lorne, Lorne, I`m running out of time, but why aren`t they prosecuting her for the murder of her sister, much of it caught on video? They videoed the sex attack.

DANSON: Well, one of the problems was is that a plea bargain that she had made before this all happened -- and I know Tim has...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: It waives that prosecution?

DANSON: Right. I mean, right now, right now, the attorney general in this province said -- I`m not sure, and Tim can tell us -- a few months ago, said that they would not be prosecuting her at all, with respect to the death of her sister.

GRACE: Very quickly, Renee Rockwell, just because a prosecutor says they`re not going to prosecute, there is no statute of limitations on murder.

ROCKWELL: No, there`s not, Nancy. But you know what? A deal is a deal. And you may not like it, but sometimes that`s how you get convictions. She didn`t have to testify against her ex-husband, but she was there to testify.

GRACE: Twelve years, three murders. Now, that`s some sweet deal.

Stay with us as we remember Lance Corporal Demarkus D. Brown, an American hero.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. To Jane Velez-Mitchell, what happens now? What`s the reaction to the movie in Canada?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, there`s a huge debate. And on one side, you have freedom of expression and artistic expression. On the other hand, you have people who say this is bringing it all back home to the people of Canada who don`t want Canada known for this kind of horrific killing that, sadly, is more associated with something that would happen in the United States.

So there`s this huge battle. And I think it`s very interesting that, ultimately, the families of the victims chose not to go out and call for a boycott, saying that they really don`t want to be advocates for censorship, as upset as they are about the making of this film.

GRACE: To Tim Danson, the attorney for the victims` families, what about a civil lawsuit? Have you thought of that? And is there any protection in Canada, like here, "Son of Sam," where criminals cannot profit from their crimes, that`s been reversed by our Supreme Court. But there`s a replacement called notoriety to profit, illegalities. Is there any protection in Canada? Can they get money from people that make money off the crime?

DANSON: Actually not. There would be, if Karla Homolka and Paul Bernardo were profiting, but, of course, they`re not in this, and so there`s no laws in Canada and that would give rise to a civil suit.

Where we intervene and where we were concerned, and what the nature of my discussions were with Mr. Sellers, was to identify where free speech ends and child pornography begins. And we were very, very concerned about that. And had it crossed that line into child pornography, we would have had all kinds of litigation. But, in fairness to Mr. Sellers, he was responsive to our concerns. And there were editing changes made, so that that line wasn`t crossed.

GRACE: Oh, please, please, please. You glamorized murder. You know, no amount of editing can clean that up.

Thank you to all of my guests. But our biggest thank you is to you for being with us tonight, inviting us and our legal stories into your home.

Coming up, headlines from all around the world. I`m Nancy Grace signing off for another night and another week. A special good night from the New York control room.

Good night, guys.

(LAUGHTER)

Hope to see you all here Monday night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.

END