Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Bush Administration Defending Domestic Spying; American Hostage

Aired January 23, 2006 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(NEWSBREAK)
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The Bush administration with a full- court press defending domestic spying this week. That includes speeches today by President Bush, and the man who headed the super- secret spy agency that does the eavesdropping.

The national security correspondent David Ensor in Washington now for us.

David, tell us the message today.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATL. SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Miles, the Bush administration is putting out the firepower of a respected four-star general, General Michael Hayden, who used to head the National Security Agency and is now the second highest intelligence officer in the land. He will -- he knows in excruciating highly classified detail the whole program of domestic surveillance that the National Security Agency is running. He is expected to -- at the National Press Club this morning talk about, to the extent he can in an unclassified forum, how it works, and how it makes the nation safer.

This is all part of a campaign that will go all week. The administration appears to have decided that it will go on the offensive, that in fact this program is probably popular with Americans, or they can make it so during the week. So many in the administration will speak about it and, as you know, this morning, you spoke to Dan Bartlett.

He had this to say about the program.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN BARTLETT, COUNSELOR TO THE PRESIDENT: There are multiple checks and balances to make sure what we're doing is targeting just that, international phone calls of terrorists, not the conversations between two families coordinating a family vacation. We have very strict laws, very strict oversight. This is a targeted program. And I think most of the American people will be very angry if they thought we weren't doing just this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ENSOR: And of course, the program will include a visit to the National Security Agency on Wednesday by the president himself -- Miles. David Ensor, in Washington watching that for us. Thank you very much -- Soledad.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: In Iraq, American journalist Jill Carroll has been missing for 16 days. Her kidnappers are demanding that the U.S. release all Iraqi women held in its custody. It's impossible, of course, to know what Jill Carroll, is going through, but if anybody has any insight, it's Roy Hallums. He was a civilian contractor, or was, was kidnapped November 2004. Held for 311 days. He's in Memphis this morning.

Thank you for talking with us, Roy. We certainly appreciate it.

You know, I think you're probably one of the best people to give us a sense of what is going on right now. The videotape that we have seen, really the only thing we've seen of Jill since she's been kidnapped, you made a tip similar to that one, didn't you? Tell me about your experience.

ROY HALLUMS, FMR. HOSTAGE IN IRAQ: Yes, I did. When they made my videotape, I was given a script and they were -- a person there with a camera, of course, and then several people in the room with weapons, and there was actually a lighting guy there with a light bulb on the end of a handle.

So, you know, during the videotaping, they told me exactly what to say. They wanted me to act upset, because they said they wanted my family and others to be concerned about me and worried about what they might do to me.

S. O'BRIEN: Do the captors speak English fluently all around you? Was it just one person in charge? Or was it dozens of people or a handful of people?

HALLUMS: They didn't speak English fluently. I mean, they could -- a couple of them could speak a little bit of English, and that's how I was able to communicate with them.

S. O'BRIEN: After you made the tape. What happened next?

HALLUMS: Well, after -- I was locked in a cellar under a storage building on a farm. They took me out to make the tape. And then as soon as the tape was finished, I was put back down in there.

S. O'BRIEN: So you had no awareness of what was going on or the response to the tape that you had made?

HALLUMS: No. I mean you don't get any information from them. They just tell you, you know, make the tape, you make, and it they don't talk to you anymore, and then, you know, you don't get to see the newspaper or hear the radio or the TV. So you don't really know what is going on in the world concerning anything, including yourself.

S. O'BRIEN: Did your family members take to the airwaves to beg for your release, as well? HALLUMS: Yes, my former wife and my oldest daughter were on quite a few shows to try and keep my name in the public and to point out that there are hostages in Iraq, and several hostages.

S. O'BRIEN: When I talked to Jill's mother the other day, and her father, too, they both seemed just incredibly strong, and really I thought were able to sort of hold it together. I'm curious to know, I guess you really didn't have access to what was being seen, but if that helps to see your wife sobbing and begging for your return, or if it's more helpful to see your wife stoic and strong, and asking for a direct conversation with your kidnappers? What do you think?

HALLUMS: Well, I don't know. I mean, different people react in different ways. I guess they're both appropriate for the person's personality.

I think in my, case for my kidnappers, they wouldn't be concerned either way. They weren't really concerned about appeals; they were interested in cash. So appeals wouldn't have affected them at all.

S. O'BRIEN: How was your family negotiating? I mean, you know, obviously they thank god, never been an experience like this before, so how did they suddenly become experts in an international hostage situation?

HALLUMS: Well, it's one of those things that you're just thrown into. I mean -- and they weren't negotiating; they were just trying to make contact, the way Jill's family is now. Because in my particular case I was kidnapped on the first of November in 2004, and there was no contact or no information concerning me until the videotape was released in January.

So you've got those months when there's no word, no information; people didn't know what was going on with me. And then after the videotape, there was no contact with my family at all. So it makes it difficult, the uncertainty of the situation.

S. O'BRIEN: I bet.

Roy Hallums, thank you for sharing your circumstance with us. It gives us tremendous insight. We're glad that we're able to talk to you in person on live TV all about it. Thank you. Appreciate it.

HALLUMS: Thank you.

S. O'BRIEN: Roy Hallums, of course, a former hostage in Iraq.

(WEATHER REPORT)

S. O'BRIEN Ahead in A.M. Pop this morning, how bad does a show have to be to be canceled after one episode? That's what we're asking after "Emily's Reasons Why Not" got the ax. Maybe it was a little overhyped. We'll take a look at that ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

Back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MARKET REPORT)

S. O'BRIEN: Daryn's up next. Hey, Daryn, good morning. What are you working on?

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Soledad.

You've been talking about the much-anticipated announcement from Ford. Well, we are going to carry that event live from Michigan at 10:30 a.m. Eastern.

And Ali Velshi will join us live from there.

And since your show is almost over, I can tell you this now, January 23th, according to some scientists, is the worst day of the year. And they actually have a mathematical equation to PRESS: ove it and all that that goes with it. And we're going to show it to you, coming up on CNN LIVE TODAY.

S. O'BRIEN: Worst in what way?

KAGAN: Worse when you take the part of the holiday, how much debt you have, how much until vacation.

S. O'BRIEN: What a bummer. Andy just scribbled a note to me -- he wrote, "my anniversary."

KAGAN: And my good friend's birthday. She is not to think...

S. O'BRIEN: Bummer. All right, we'll Look forward to seeing the reasons behind that.

Daryn, thanks.

KAGAN: Happy anniversary, Andy.

SERWER: Thanks, Daryn. Thanks a lot.

M. O'BRIEN: I'll have you know, I would have protected you on that one. Soledad...

(CROSSTALK)

S. O'BRIEN: He's a grownup. He can take it.

KAGAN: Thanks, Daryn.

M. O'BRIEN: Coming up on "A.M. Pop," a dangling election, and we're not talking chads. "The West Wing" gets the hook after seven seasons. The show is right in the middle of an election campaign. Is it Jimmy Smits? It is it Alan Alda? Actually maybe it'll be Geena Davis, if you know what I mean. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: "A.M. Pop" this morning. The television axe falling on one of its most successful dramas.

S. O'BRIEN: And falling on one of the season's most hyped sitcoms. Lola Ogunnaike is the culture reporter for "The New York Times," with us this morning. Nice to see you.

LOLA OGUNNAIKE, "NEW YORK TIMES": Nice to see you, too.

S. O'BRIEN: Kind of shockers, I think, this morning to talk about.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, for all of them. Lola, this -- "The West Wing"...

OGUNNAIKE: Right.

M. O'BRIEN: Such a successful show.

OGUNNAIKE: Right.

M. O'BRIEN: And seemed, thematically, to be kind of on a roll. My theory on this is that Geena Davis has stolen all the thunder. There's only room for one "West Wing" on TV. What do you think?

OGUNNAIKE: There might be something to that, but I think the fact it's been seven years -- that's a long time for a show -- and it just -- it's not necessarily the must have television show, the must watched television show that it was years ago, honestly.

S. O'BRIEN: Are the numbers just horrific?

OGUNNAIKE: The numbers have declined. They are not horrific. They are not nearly as bad as Heather Graham's show, which we'll get to.

S. O'BRIEN: Ooh, harsh comment there!

OGUNNAIKE: But yes, the numbers have diminished. Still critically acclaimed, but again, not the water cooler show that it used to be.

M. O'BRIEN: So put this into context. NBC obviously with some wholesale problems.

OGUNNAIKE: Well, NBC, the peacock has lost its feathers. That's the real story here. I mean, NBC, this is a network that brought us "The Cosby Show," "Cheers," "Seinfeld," "Friends." But last year it suffered its worse rating slump in history. And they're really trying to figure out how to get back on top. They're rejiggering themes, they're moving their classics around. Like "Law and Order" is now going to be moved to Wednesday nights and go up against "Lost," which might not work.

S. O'BRIEN: That's harsh, again. I love "Law and Order."

OGUNNAIKE: I love "Law and Order," too, but "Lost" is such a major hit. S. O'BRIEN: I know, I know. It's never going to work, I agree with you.

OGUNNAIKE: They're moving "Apprentice" to Monday nights now, and they're moving "Las Vegas," which is on Monday nights, to Friday nights. And that might backfire, because I mean, let's face it. People sitting at home don't necessarily want to have to chase their favorite shows. They're used to seeing things at different times.

S. O'BRIEN: It could get worse before it gets better.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, but these days with all the DVRs and TiVos out there, does that matter as much anymore?

OGUNNAIKE: I think it does. I definitely think it does. I mean, if you can't even find it, how do you TiVo it?

M. O'BRIEN: Well, that's true.

S. O'BRIEN: Well, let's about this -- Heather Graham.

M. O'BRIEN: Great run.

(CROSSTALK)

M. O'BRIEN: Thirty minutes.

S. O'BRIEN: Literally it was one show.

OGUNNAIKE: One show.

S. O'BRIEN: A 30-minute show.

OGUNNAIKE: And the thing that...

S. O'BRIEN: What happened? Was it that bad?

OGUNNAIKE: Well, the theme was so trite. Single girl in the city, successful, looking for love. I mean, it's the basis of every chick-lit novel.

S. O'BRIEN: Hi, "Sex and the City." Yes.

OGUNNAIKE: Yes, but at least those -- at least that was original ten years ago. And now, you know, she had the gay best friend and the multicultural cast. It just didn't work. I think it just felt boring, trite, dated. And people weren't into it.

But this all could have been avoided. It turns out executives didn't even look at the script before they launched or decided to launch this whole promotional campaign. And then someone decides, oh, I'm going to pop in the tape. And they're like, oh, this is not good. Get this off the air, get this off the air.

S. O'BRIEN: So basically they green-lighted this show and then said Heather Graham, she's a star, let's promote it. M. O'BRIEN: Yes, it's got to be big.

OGUNNAIKE: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: And no one had seen it?

OGUNNAIKE: The girl is hot, she looks great. And then next thing you know...

S. O'BRIEN: She is hot, she does look great. I mean, got to give them that.

OGUNNAIKE: She does. And there was a while when Heather Graham was everywhere. In the late '90s, she was huge. "Austin Powers," I mean, Felicity Shagwell. She was in "Swingers," she was in "Boogie Nights." She was roller girl. And now she can't get arrested, which is tragic.

M. O'BRIEN: Ah, yes, speaking of arrests -- let's go to Richard Hatch now.

OGUNNAIKE: That's a great segue.

M. O'BRIEN: This is the poor overweight naked guy from...

S. O'BRIEN: Naked guy on "Survivor."

M. O'BRIEN: And he was wearing clothes in court, right?

OGUNNAIKE: Thank God for that.

M. O'BRIEN: He's lost some weight.

OGUNNAIKE: He's managed to keep the weight off, but you know -- six years ago this guy was on top of the word. He'd won survivor, he won a million bucks. He lost all this weight. And he was a household name for about 15 minutes.

S. O'BRIEN: You don't pay your taxes, you know what happens.

OGUNNAIKE: You don't pay your taxes. And now he's facing -- and this is no small case. It's a 10-count indictment here. I mean, he's -- mail fraud, you know, tax evasion. It's like -- it's major here. And it's not really looking good. And his argument is, well, I thought the producers of "Survivor" were going to pay my taxes for me.

S. O'BRIEN: Your employer doesn't pay your taxes for you?

OGUNNAIKE: I wish my employer paid my taxes.

M. O'BRIEN: It's interesting, though, he did three separate tax returns and put in the one that was most favorable to him. That's interesting.

OGUNNAIKE: Exactly.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, Lola.

S. O'BRIEN: As always, nice to see you. Thank you very much.

OGUNNAIKE: You, too. Thank you so much.

S. O'BRIEN: Lola Ogunnaike from "The New York Times."

M. O'BRIEN: It's always nice to have Lolas drop by. It's such a great name.

OGUNNAIKE: Thank you.

M. O'BRIEN: Lola's a good name.

OGUNNAIKE: Keep it.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, back with more in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com