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Nancy Grace

Mother Murdered for Diet Plan; Missing Girl`s Mother Speaks; George Smith Case Reviewed

Aired January 23, 2006 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news in the mystery surrounding the so-called missing groom. World-renowned expert Dr. Henry Lee boards the cruise ship where 26-year-old George Smith last seen on his honeymoon. What did Henry Lee discover?
Plus, more breaking news tonight, new and disturbing clues uncovered in the disappearance of 23-year-old Michelle Bullard out of North Carolina. Bullard was at home, watching TV on the sofa -- home invasion. Bullard not seen since. Tonight, is there a break in the case?

Also tonight, a 16-year-old girl on trial for arranging the murder of her own mother. Catch this. Motive? The mom put her on a diet.

Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Tonight, a sleepy Alaskan fishing town rocked by murder, a 16-year-old local girl on trial for arranging the murder of her mom. Was a diet plan the catalyst for matricide? Plus tonight, breaking news in the search for missing 23-year-old Michelle Bullard, new clues now discovered. Bullard last seen three weeks ago during a home invasion, Bullard kidnapped.

But first tonight, renowned forensic scientist Dr. Henry Lee goes aboard the Brilliance of the Seas, searching for clues, clues in the disappearance of missing honeymooner George Smith.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BREE SMITH, MISSING GROOM`S SISTER: And we`re just hoping for answers. We`re just very hopeful that Dr. Lee finds out some information in the mere two hours he was given by Royal Caribbean to get on the ship.

DR. HENRY LEE, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: We did conduct different experiments. We did check the cabin, the canopy, and the balcony.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re very hopeful that the information that`s been gathered, the data, will contribute to the FBI`s ongoing investigation.

LEE: We did not have opportunity to examine the carpet and padding. That`s probably yield much more evidence. I did find something, OK, but I cannot tell you what we found. We did find something. All right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: OK, Henry Lee leaving that press conference smiling. What is it Henry Lee found? And did the Royal Caribbean cruise line give him adequate opportunity to really go through the cabin of George Smith?

Straight out to chief correspondent with "Inside Edition," our colleague, Jim Moret. Jim, bring us up to date, friend.

JIM MORET, "INSIDE EDITION": Well, one of the problems, though, Nancy, with Henry Lee`s experiments and examination of the ship is it`s been six months since the disappearance of George Smith. And Dr. Lee said, admittedly, that six months causes a great deal of problem when you`re looking for evidence. He said he wanted to conduct some five tests. He was able to conduct three of them. One of them that he wanted to conduct was what he called a mannequin test. He wanted to take a mannequin and basically toss it over the balcony so he could see the trajectory, how and where the body would hit, because it`s believed that George Smith went overboard. You saw that canopy that you`re seeing now with blood. That`s where some blood was discovered on the ship.

Dr. Lee you heard say that he wasn`t able to examine the carpet fibers and the padding. That`s because that`s in possession -- FBI has possession of that right now. But he did do certain tests. He wanted to see how long it would take to get from point A to point B on the ship. He wanted to see -- he did what he called red and blue light tests. So there were various scientific tests he and his team were able to conduct. They were on the ship from about 10:00 AM to 4:00 PM. Dr. Lee left early, but his team remained. And as you heard, he said he did glean some information but wasn`t very specific about what it is.

GRACE: Here is more of what Dr. Henry Lee had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEE: We did conduct different experiments, measurement, study. We did check the cabin, the canopy, and the balcony. We did a couple experiments. However, I`m not going to share with you the detail of the experiment. That`s part of agreement.

We did not have opportunity to examine the carpet and padding. That`s probably yield much more evidence. And of course, we was planned to conduct a mannequin experiment. That wasn`t conducted. So basically, five original experiments I want to do, we was able to achieve three.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Three out of five. Not a bad number. OK, let`s break it down, just the way you do for a trial. Let`s take a look what at we`ve got and what we are missing.

We know that Dr. Henry Lee performed three of five tests he wanted to perform. We know that one of those is basically a reenactment, in the sense that he wanted to see the distance from various points on the boat. Also, we know that he did the red and blue light test.

To forensic scientist and criminal profiler Dean Wideman, joining us out of Texas. Dean, explain for the viewers, if you don`t mind, the red and blue light test.

DEAN WIDEMAN, FORENSIC EXPERT AND CRIMINAL PROFILER: Basically, anytime you use an alternate light source, the objective is to enhance any physical evidence that might be present, to either -- normally use an alternate light source to either make evidence fluoresce -- ie, it lightens it up or makes it bright -- or it darkens the evidence, and therefore, the light`s absorbed. So the idea is to look for evidence that you can`t normally see with -- under visible and normal light.

GRACE: Is that like an ultraviolet light?

WIDEMAN: Yes, it`s a different -- yes, that`s right.

GRACE: And certain -- certain evidence would stand out. It`s a different way, it`s a different light that you shine on what you hope to be evidence.

Joining us right now by phone, Brett Rivkind, Smith family attorney. Brett, thank you for being with us. What was Dr. Lee able to accomplish today, Brett?

BRETT RIVKIND, SMITH FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, you know, Dr. Lee, as he said, he got to do three of his five experiments he wanted to do. He spent some time in the cabin. He spent a lot of time on the canopy. And I think it was -- we`re very upbeat about, you know, what he was able to do today.

Unfortunately, as you know, it comes six months later, and the fact that he was on the ship today for over four-and-a-half hours, unable to do two major experiments, and without even going and doing any forensics in any of the cabins of any of the people who were last seen with George, just underscores the fact that the ship should have stayed where it was when it was in port in Turkey because the Turkish authorities were on board that ship for only two hours, Nancy.

GRACE: Well, that is certainly not what the Royal Caribbean cruise line lawyers told us. Right here on this show, Brett Rivkind, they made out that the Turkish police came on the ship aboard whenever they were ready and got to stay as long as they wanted to. Is that not correct, Brett?

RIVKIND: Well, I don`t know if they stayed as long as they wanted to. I do they were only on there for a couple hours, Nancy. And they never looked in any of the cabins of any of the other gentlemen who were last seen with George, to do any forensics in those cabins. And we know they took a total of six statements out of 3,000 passengers.

GRACE: Oh!

RIVKIND: And what I`m saying is this was an investigator`s dream, Nancy. They had the cruise ship with 3,000 potential witnesses all in one location, and al they had to do was leave the ship there for a day or so, let the FBI...

GRACE: Right. Brett, I know right now we`re playing "coulda, woulda, shoulda," but with what we`ve got right now, what I don`t understand is why Royal Caribbean would not allow Dr. Henry Lee to go to these other cabins. Look, I know they`ve been cleaned. I know there`ve been various people in and out of them. But you know what? Blood is a funny, funny thing. It splatters in places you would never expect, even up on the ceiling sometimes. It gets up under the bed sometimes, places where a maid may not consider cleaning, almost invisible to the naked eye, Brett. Why won`t Royal Caribbean allow Lee on to examine all of these cabins?

RIVKIND: Well, Nancy, today -- we originally had a two-hour restriction. I think that your show on Friday night, where you asked why would you restrict world-renowned Dr. Lee to just two hours, made a big, big difference because that evening about 10:00 o`clock, we got telefaxes and they removed the time restriction.

So today, I will say that the cruise line removed the time restriction, I think under media scrutiny. And today just wasn`t enough time to get to those other cabins, Nancy. And probably, at this period of time, six months later, even with all that sophisticated equipment -- and it was marvelous to watch Dr. Lee and all that equipment and wonder what could have been done had a proper investigation been done from the beginning.

So out of fairness, Nancy, the cruise line today did not really restrict our time. But it just shows you how much time you really need on that ship to do a proper, proper forensics, not two hours. And even today, with four-and-a-half hours on ship, with no carpet to analyze, with not looking at the other carpets and not doing another major test he wanted to do, it still took four-and-a-half, almost five hours with a team of forensic experts on board.

GRACE: Well, I`m very heartened to hear that Royal Caribbean is helping pursue justice, or at least not standing in the way today. What I don`t understand is, why did they disallow Henry Lee from doing the mannequin test? I`ve done mannequin tests myself very often -- right in front of a jury, by the way. And they`re very, very useful. You learn about the measurements inside a room, about the railing measurement, what a body could and couldn`t do. If the problem is that there are passengers on the boat, on the ship, why not do it when there are no passengers, if that`s their only restriction? Brett?

RIVKIND: Well, we don`t really understand why they restricted us, Nancy. For the first couple hours that were on board that ship, there were no passengers on board that ship. So we`re not really sure what their real reason for restricting us was.

And I want to point out, too, that, you know, we`ve been requesting to go on the ship for -- you know, since November. Royal Caribbean, I heard, was coming on saying, Gee, you know, they`re bringing Dr. Lee late. And you know, What`s he going to find, you know, like, criticizing that we would bring somebody in at this period of time.

But you know, since the minute the family and Jennifer had an attorney, we`ve been asking, Let us go on board the ship, letter after letter, and finally, two months later, they let us on with the restrictions they have, and then they come out to the media and say, Gee, what are they bringing this expert on so late, like, you know, criticizing what`s he going to find.

GRACE: You know, all the rhetoric, all the war of words, I don`t give a fig about it. Anybody can say whatever they want to. What I want to know, Brett Rivkind -- everybody, with us is seasoned attorney Brett Rivkind. He is the George Smith family attorney.

Brett, what tests was Lee disallowed from doing? And what can you tell us about what he discovered?

RIVKIND: Well, you know, Nancy, we`re not allowed to really discuss what he discovered. I can tell you that...

GRACE: Nobody`s listening. It`s just us.

(LAUGHTER)

RIVKIND: I hear you! I can tell you that he used all his equipment inside the cabin, the lights you discussed. He spent a lot of time on the canopy. He tried to -- he recreated the picture of the blood to do appropriate measurements. He wasn`t able to use the mannequin, which would have helped him calculate, as you`ve explained, a lot of different angles and how the body fell.

And of course, the carpet and the padding had been removed, sometime much after the cruise had finished, by the FBI, which again shows that the FBI`s real forensic focus came at a late time and which we believe all stems back from that day one, when this was characterized as an accident by Royal Caribbean and the ship was in a rush to leave the port in Turkey the first...

GRACE: Right. Hey, Brett, I know you`re headed out, but I want to ask you one more question. If you won`t tell me what he found, could you tell me the two tests he was disallowed from doing? One is the mannequin test. What`s the other one?

RIVKIND: Well, no, the other test wasn`t that he was disallowed, Nancy. He was referring to he did three out of the five. The one that he couldn`t do, the other one besides the mannequin, was the carpet.

GRACE: Oh. I understand. OK. So just the mannequin, right?

RIVKIND: And the carpet. And then, of course, you know, the test inside the cabin is of limited value at this time, of course, because of the time that passed and the fact that the cabin had been contaminated early on.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BREE SMITH: (INAUDIBLE) heard that the boat had been searched. You know, we said, Well, make sure that the waters are being searched. And I pushed and pushed and pushed for the extension of the search, you know, by the Turkish and the Greek coast guard, and they did do that for us. We did everything we could because George was so strong and so muscular, we thought that he could swim, if, you know, he was OK when he went in the water. But unfortunately, I don`t think he was OK when he went on the overhang.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAUREEN SMITH, MISSING HONEYMOONER`S MOTHER: We just went into (INAUDIBLE) disbelief. We just thought, It can`t happen. We just thought, He`s somewhere else on the ship. We just thought, you know, Maybe he`s in -- you know, in a deck chair somewhere. We just -- disbelief. It was just disbelief.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. This Friday night, George Smith`s family was here on the set with me, and we questioned Royal Caribbean. We asked them for more time for Henry Lee to complete his tests, and lo and behold, they did just that. Today, world-renowned forensic expert Henry Lee back on Brilliance of the Seas, trying to find clues to the mystery of missing groom George Smith. And here is what Lee had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEE: I did find something, OK? But I cannot tell you what we found. We did find something. All right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: OK, that was not very helpful, Elizabeth (ph). Can you give me some more sound from Lee? He`s playing a cat-and-mouse game with me.

Joe Lawless, the reason is, when -- you think you found some evidence. I`ve been to many, many crime scenes, as have you and all the other lawyers on the show tonight. Just because you find something -- you`ve got to have it tested in a lab. For instance, if he found a speck of blood, he`s got to take it, photograph it, remove it, take it back, make sure it matches back up to George Smith or possibly a suspect. I mean, it could be anything.

But I want to talk to you quickly about how important it is to go in and take measurements inside the cabin for a future video reenactment in front of a jury. Explain, Joe Lawless.

JOE LAWLESS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you absolutely need that, Nancy, because when you bring a case like this into a courtroom, you don`t have the crime scene. The boat`s going to be however many thousand miles away, and you need to be able to either reconstruct a model, a floor plan, or something so that the jury can get a feel for what that cabin is like. For example, in a very closed-in area, it might be that you want to reconstruct almost a life-size model, so that the jury could see...

GRACE: Right.

LAWLESS: ... that if there was a fight, if there was some kind of violence, there would have been trace evidence left, which in this instance is going to be hard to find because Royal Caribbean controlled the crime scene and allowed it to be contaminated...

GRACE: Exactly.

LAWLESS: ... very early on. I mean, you and I have been at numerous crime scenes. How often do you see where someone who might have a peripheral influence on that crime scene or who might be sued down the road are able to restrict access of people who are gathering evidence? And that`s what appears to be going on here.

GRACE: He`s absolutely correct. Anne Bremner, joining us out of Seattle, high-profile lawyer. Anne, I recall reenacting a case for the jury. It was thought to be a suicide, and when I was at the crime lab, we put up the lady`s sheets, all right? She was killed in her bed. And we got to looking and saw underneath her pillow were splatter marks. Now, we had to reenact for the jury that this was physically impossible for splatter from a head wound to get under the pillow in the form of spatter marks.

ANNE BREMNER, TRIAL ATTORNEY: Right.

GRACE: So the reenactment can be very, very important. That`s why Lee needed these measurements. What about the chain of custody? Explain, Anne Bremner.

BREMNER: Well, and that`s a problem with this case of the saying`s been what happens on a cruise ship stays on a cruise ship because there`s been such problems with these scenes. But that`s exactly, right, Nancy. (INAUDIBLE) chain of custody, it`s got to be in the same condition as when you took it from the scene as when it`s shown to a jury, uninterrupted. And when the testing occurs, it can`t be tainted in any way, whether it comes from Dr. Lee or whether it comes from the authorities themselves.

GRACE: When we come back, we`re going to have joining us a maritime expert to discuss the implications of Dr. Lee`s visit to the Brilliance of the Seas case, and then we`ll take you on to breaking news not only out of North Carolina but out of Alaska, as well.

But first to tonight`s "Case Alert." Buckle your seatbelts. Two more judges go soft on child molesters. Massachusetts judge Suzanne DelVecchio let Gregory Pathiakis, a former high school teacher who pled guilty to statutory rape of a student, get no jail time, just straight probation. Judge!

Meanwhile, in a Wisconsin courtroom, a teacher sentenced to just three years probation, fine, community service from Judge Alan Bates for sex assault on a young boy. Judge Bates, Judge Del Vecchio, you are in contempt!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BREE SMITH: As you know, my brother, George Smith, went missing on July 5 from the Royal Caribbean Brilliance of the Seas. We believe he was murdered on his honeymoon, with a lifetime of happiness and a promising future ahead of him. George is very missed by his family, as well as his many friends.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Today, forensic expert Dr. Henry Lee on board Brilliance of the Seas. What did he learn?

To Larry Kaye. He is an expert in maritime law. Larry, do you believe Royal Caribbean is cooperating to the fullest extent?

LARRY KAYE, MARITIME ATTORNEY: I really do, Nancy. And one of the problems with this case is that there`s been so much misinformation out there, so we ought to get out some basic facts. When this first happened, Royal Caribbean did seal that cabin, and it was investigated as a crime scene by the Turkish police. In fact, it was referred for investigation by the Turkish criminal court, and a criminal prosecutor was present during the entire investigation, which involved several police officers. Items were bagged, tagged, labeled, and all sorts of forensic evidence of many kinds were removed from that cabin, preserved and then turned over to the FBI that very day, July 5.

So all of this speculation about cover-up and contamination of the scene and evidence being destroyed is just simply untrue.

GRACE: Larry, Larry, I assume you`ve handled criminal cases, as well, correct?

KAYE: No, I haven`t. I haven`t.

GRACE: Well, Larry, let me tell you something. There`s a big, big problem when, even unintentionally, a crime scene is tampered with and...

KAYE: Well, of course.

GRACE: What I`m talking about is allowing maids or Royal Caribbean personnel to go into that cabin room, go through everything, the drawers, under the bed, the bed itself, you name it...

KAYE: Yes, but none of that happened.

GRACE: No, it did happen!

KAYE: No, no, Nancy, honestly, it did not happen.

GRACE: Well, I asked the lawyer for Royal Caribbean...

KAYE: That`s one of the problems.

GRACE: ... on this show -- if you`d just hear me out for a moment? They allowed one of the -- well several of the boat, ship personnel to go on and retrieve Jennifer Hagel`s belongings, take them to her that day. That day! She caught a plane home that day.

KAYE: Yes.

GRACE: So what I`m saying is, before this cabin was totally processed, someone, or more than one someone, went into the cabin and totally went through the whole thing, getting what they believed to be Jennifer Hagel`s belongings to give to her. As well intentioned as it may have been, it destroyed the crime scene.

KAYE: The last part of what you said, though, is not accurate. And if you`ll let me explain, I can, I think, clarify it. The crime scene was completely processed. The Turkish authorities told Royal Caribbean in the presence of the FBI agent that was there that they were finished.

And one thing you may not know is that the FBI agent who was on the scene that day with Jennifer at the police station actually communicated to the ship the combination for the safe so that Jennifer`s belongings, her valuables, could be removed from the safe and brought back to her. So he was completely aware that the crime scene had been processed and that now we were going to Jennifer`s belongings.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Missing groom George Smith. No sight or sound of him since he was on a cruise line on his honeymoon. Thank you to all our guests on the George Smith story, a story we`ll continue to cover.

Right now, we are switching gears and going to Alaska, believe it or not. Was a diet plan a motive, a catalyst for a young girl to arrange the death, the murder of her own mother?

Let`s go to Jim Moret, chief correspondent, "Inside Edition," Jim, please tell me these facts are wrong.

JIM MORET, CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, "INSIDE EDITION": I wish I could, but apparently they`re exactly correct, based upon blogs that this young girl posted, not only a diet plan but also allegations that her mother was mean to her.

This is in the words of a 16-year-old girl, now 17, who`s basically being charged with conspiring with two former boyfriends who are 25 years old to kill her mother. And it wasn`t only the first time, but it was on three -- it was on the fourth time that they were finally successful.

The men basically beat her, suffocated her, and then put her body into her family minivan, set it on fire, all this while the girl was out of town so that she wouldn`t be implicated. But the police got confessions and guilty pleas from the two men, and they are going to testify against her.

GRACE: I understand that the condition of her body was inconsistent with a car crash.

MORET: Well, the car was found on fire, and it was -- you`re right, it was inconsistent. And it was based upon statements that police were able to piece together exactly what happened.

But as I said, it wasn`t only the first plan. You know, there were several attempts that never got beyond either the talking stage or they were thwarted because they just couldn`t get things together.

GRACE: Tell me about the motive that we know of so far, Jim Moret.

MORET: The motive was the girl basically didn`t get along with her mother. I mean, it`s not uncommon for teenagers, but very uncommon for them to take it to this level where they would even discuss with others the prospect of killing their parent. But that`s apparently and allegedly what happened here. And based upon the statements and guilty pleas of these two men, that`s what this girl was going to be faced with in trial.

GRACE: And what I was saying about the condition of the body, Anne Bremner, is that they tried to beat the poor woman to death first.

ANNE BREMNER, TRIAL ATTORNEY: Right.

GRACE: All right, apparently tried to force feed her -- was it a bottle of wine, Ms. Ellie?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s right.

GRACE: A bottle of wine.

BREMNER: That`s right.

GRACE: Here`s the victim. And then they tried to, according to police, snap the lady`s neck, quote, "like they do in the movies." But guess what? It didn`t work like it does in the movies. So finally, according to police, they bludgeoned this mother to death, put her body in a vehicle, and set it on fire.

BREMNER: Horrible.

GRACE: You know what? Just recounting those facts -- and I`ve done it a million times in front of a jury -- just recounting them is just, it is horrific.

Enter the blog. John Powers, Internet reporter with the Action Report, explain to me -- what is this girl`s blog all about and what have you learned from looking at it?

JOHN POWERS, INTERNET REPORTER, THE ACTION REPORT: Well, in 2004, Nancy, this was the blog heard `round the world. Her last two entries, they really put the point on the pencil. Her last entry, on November 18th, she very detachedly said that, just to let everyone know, my mom was murdered. And then she goes on to say, in the same entry, that the police have come and absconded her computer and her hard drive, so she won`t be able to have any back-and-forth communications with her friends until it`s returned to her.

In the entry prior to that on the 14th, which was the day that her mother was murdered...

GRACE: Yes?

POWERS: ... she comes back from Anchorage, Alaska, after a volleyball match, and she`s talking about some boots that she had bought, some thigh- high boots and how excited she was. Meanwhile, according to her blog, it was 6:10 p.m. Her mother was missing. By that time, her father had called the police. She makes no mention of it in her personal entry web blog, which is very inconsistent with someone who had -- whose mother is missing.

GRACE: You know, incredible.

And Anne Bremner, don`t you just hate that, when your missing mother interferes with your admiration in the mirror of your thigh-high boots?

BREMNER: That`s right.

(LAUGHTER)

Thigh-high boots, and your own personal angst, and whether or not you look fat or thin on a given day, which is an obsession of every 16-year-old girl. But the thing is, Nancy, with this blog is it`s just talk. Remember, she said, "I live in the suckiest place in the universe." And she goes on and on and on. I don`t know who`s reading this.

GRACE: Why do defense attorneys always say, when their clients say something highly incriminating, they go, "Oh, it`s just talk; it`s a fantasy"?

BREMNER: Well, you know what, but it is, Nancy.

GRACE: "It`s a dream world. It`s a blog."

BREMNER: Well, Nancy, it is just talk when it`s in your own blog. All these blogs out there, I always wonder who`s reading them. You know, everyone`s got their own blog.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: I do not have my own blog.

BREMNER: ... except for the police.

GRACE: To Leslie Austin, psychotherapist, what do we know, Leslie, about people that commit matricide, the murder of their mother?

LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: What we know is that she did not want to be crossed in any way or controlled in any way by her mother. And I know in the blog she referred to her as a parental unit, which I think came from "Saturday Night Live." That`s such a detached way to talk about your mom. She clearly...

GRACE: Well, wait a minute. Let`s take an informal poll. Anybody on the panel today, anybody on floor, the whole floor, if your mother has never told you to you stand up straight, cut your hair, lose weight, don`t interrupt, anybody? OK. They all do it.

AUSTIN: But my bet is...

GRACE: So why commit murder?

AUSTIN: But my bet is that nobody on your floor has sociopathic patterns like this girl does. She is so extremely narcissistic and so detached from reality, she is her entire world. Who does she think her audience is, that she`s writing a blog about the intimate details of her life? Who does she think is reading this?

GRACE: You know, that`s a really good question. Who would be reading her blog?

Ellie, do we know who -- just the kids in her high school?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I assume friends of hers, you know, other kids at school.

GRACE: I mean, how would you even find it on the Internet?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know.

GRACE: To Brian Reich, joining us. He is a detective with the Computer Crimes Unit. How can these journal entries -- I`m calling it a journal; it`s a blog -- how can they be used in court or can they?

BRIAN REICH, COMPUTER CRIMES UNIT: Well, they could certainly be used in court. There`s very few courts that are going to give someone an expectation of privacy for things that are just put out there.

You know, blogs today are like diaries like we had with kids. And if you hung your diary out your window for everyone to see, then certainly there`s no expectation of privacy. So it can be used.

But they`re going to be used to put her own words in her mouth in court. And one of the things we have going for us with computer evidence in these cases is that it`s very hard to destroy. If you take a piece of paper, and you rip it, you burn it, you throw it away, it`s hard to get back.

With computer evidence though, whether it`s blogs, the information she has on her computer, if she put it in a Word document first, we could retrieve that information, even if it`s deleted, even if it`s erased, and sometimes even when the hard drive`s partially damaged or they try to destroy it. We can get that information and we could use it in court, and we can put her words in her mouth. And it`s very, very important evidence for us.

GRACE: You know, Brian is correct, Joe Lawless. Joe Lawless, defense attorney out of the Philadelphia jurisdiction. Joe, it`s just a matter of authenticating the blog.

JOE LAWLESS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.

GRACE: There are several evidentiary hurdles, who made the blog? Was the blog recovered correctly? How was the blog recovered? And the chain of evidence, getting the blog to the jury. But it`s going to come into evidence.

Hey, Elizabeth, let`s put this up and let these defense attorneys take a crack at the blog, OK? "And you didn`t do anything to stop it. I told them not to do it. And then after you knew what had happened, I was scared."

Let`s see the rest, Elizabeth.

"But you didn`t" -- OK. I`m not seeing it Elizabeth. If you could put the next part of it up. There you go. "I was so scared. And instead, you sat there and lied to us about it and now expect us to believe you now. I was so scared."

Now, there is another excerpt, Elizabeth, the one I had wanted to show the viewers where the cop says, "You knew it was going to happen, but you say." See if you can find that one for me, Elizabeth.

Long story short, Joe Lawless, even without these blogs, we`re now looking at statements she made to police.

LAWLESS: Well, you have 155-page confession. And I can tell you, from experience, confessions are not easy to deal with under the best of circumstances. You can make an argument that the confession was suggested to her. You can make an argument that the nature of the interrogation was such that words were put in her mouth. The confession isn`t helpful.

However, one of the problems, I think, with the prosecution`s case is what exactly caused these two guys to decide, "OK, this is a great idea"? "We`re going to go and murder Rachel`s mom because Rachel wants us to"? There`s a hole there.

GRACE: Right, don`t see a motive.

Back to Jim Moret, not only chief correspondent with "Inside Edition," Jim is actually a lawyer, as well. Jim, I don`t know if you`ve gotten a chance to look at this. It`s incredible. It`s part of her statement to police. And in it, they say to her, "Sergeant Habib says you knew what was going to happen." She says, "No, I didn`t." "What, you changed your mind? You wanted them to stop?"

She says -- catch this, Jim -- "I didn`t know for sure it was going to happen. They said we might do something, and I kind of thought about it, and I called them up and I said no." So she, in her own words -- forget the blog -- was right in there, right in cahoots with two men that now are pleading guilty to murdering her mother over a diet, Jim, a diet plan.

MORET: You asked earlier, who was her audience, if in fact this was a diary or blog? We know, based upon these confessions, she had an audience of at least two, these two 25-year-olds who were former boyfriends. And a good question is, why would they be listening to her? Well, obviously, that`s going to be coming out in the trial. But it`s a very, very disturbing case, to be sure.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAREN RIOJAS, MICHELLE BULLARD`S MOTHER: My life has been turned completely upside down. I want to find my daughter. I don`t care who, when and why. I just want my daughter back.

I went through a million different scenarios as to what could have happened to Michelle. But I do know Michelle is a fighter, and she is a survivor. And I do know Michelle is smart, and if she can get out of this situation, she will.

We love her. We miss her. And we want her back in our arms.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Won`t you help us find Michelle Bullard? Breaking news tonight in the search for this 23-year-old girl. Joining us, along with her mother, Karen Riojas, Margaret Murchison, news and public affairs director with WWGP and WFJA Radio.

Welcome, Margaret. Please bring us up-to-date in the search for Michelle.

MARGARET MURCHISON, NEWS AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS DIRECTOR, WWGP AND WFJA RADIO: OK, Nancy. I talked with Chief Deputy Kevin Bryant about two hours ago. He had just come in from the search that`s being conducted in Cumberland County, near the Bladen County line.

And I asked him how many people had joined the search today. And he said there were over 50 people, and that included two dive teams, one from Cumberland County, one from Harnett County. The search party consisted of officers from the Fayetteville Police Department, the Cumberland County Sheriff`s Department. There were 19 officers from Lee County. Also, the canine unit from the Fayetteville Police Department, Harnett County deputies, and the FBI.

The helicopter could not join the search today because of inclement weather. That search will continue tomorrow, hopefully with the helicopter, where they are searching near the Bladen County line. And they are probably about seven to 10 miles away from White Lake, which is a recreational area that`s very popular.

GRACE: Right. With us from WWGP and WFJA Radio, Margaret Murchison. Margaret, what clues were found over the weekend?

MURCHISON: Well, on Friday, a backhoe operator found a wallet. And he contacted -- he flagged down a police officer to give them the wallet, and it was Michelle`s wallet. It had her license, I believe, in the wallet.

OK. They went to search. Lee County deputies went to Cumberland County on Saturday morning, and they were joined by Cumberland County authorities, and they did a foot search. Well, since the weather was bad, they decided to wait until sometime this week and go back and do a thorough search, but then yesterday, volunteers found what was believed to be the wallet belonging to another young lady who was alleged to be in the home the night of the abduction.

They also found some socks. And they found what appeared to be an Army-issued ski mask. Now, whether or not these things are related to the case, they were found and they have been collected.

OK. Today, Chief Bryant said they found lots of items today. He didn`t want to be specific, because none of these items have been proven to be part of the investigation, but they were found during the search.

He said the search is pretty hard, because it`s a wooded area, it`s swampy, and they`re having to walk a long ways. And he said they are picking up things as they go along.

They found a card. I think people listening to the news this afternoon thought they said they found her car. That is incorrect. They found a card, which was thought to be something like maybe a card, a membership card from a health spa or something, but they`re probing that to see if this is indeed Michelle`s card.

They did find a car, but the car had nothing to do with the search for Michelle Bullard.

GRACE: With us is Margaret Murchison from WWGP and WFJA Radios.

Now a special guest is with us tonight, Michelle`s mother, Karen Riojas. Karen, thank you for being with us. We`ve thought about you a lot and kept you in our thoughts, in our prayers. What are investigators telling you? And have these new items just found over the weekend given a specific direction to the search?

RIOJAS: It has definitely put it in a different area, Nancy. We are talking now of three different counties as to where, not just only evidence but -- you know, I guess it`s just broadened it. It`s wide open. But it still remains a mystery to us as to why Michelle`s belongings and the other people`s belongings would be on such a isolated, rural road 50 miles or 60 miles from where she was abducted.

GRACE: You know, you`re right, clearly. We also want to know if we could identify when they were thrown out.

You know, to Jim Moret, chief correspondent, "Inside Edition," the night that Michelle was abducted, I want you to go through those facts, and then I want to try to figure out when these items were discarded. What happened the night Michelle disappeared, Jim?

MORET: Well, she was at a boyfriend`s house with other people. And basically, a masked gunman walks in. They believe that that robbery was the initial motive, but they ended up grabbing Michelle and then...

GRACE: Home invasion. Home invasion.

MORET: Right, exactly. And then they kidnapped her, kidnapped her, and then left. I mean, you know, it`s very disturbing. I would suspect that it would engender some hope when they find some evidence, as they did over the weekend. But the question as to why they were found where they were found, I don`t know. It...

GRACE: Well, what about the suicide, Jim?

MORET: I`m sorry? Oh, well, there was a suicide of an individual that was about six miles from that location. But authorities say that that was not related. That individual`s wife said that he was simply despondent over personal and financial matters and it was not related to this case.

But, you know, when you hear all of these things, for example, the car that was found, there were initially questions whether that was involved.

GRACE: Quickly to tonight`s "All-Points Bulletin." FBI, law enforcement across the country on the lookout for Mahboob Pasha, wanted in connection with the `94 Atlanta shooting of Anthony Harris. Pasha, 39, 5`8", 120 pounds, black hair, brown eyes. If you have any information, please call the FBI, 404-679-9000.

Local news coming up for some of you. But we`ll all be right back. And remember, live coverage next week of a 14-year-old New Mexico boy on trial for the shooting death of his family on the ranch of ABC newsman Sam Donaldson, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern, Court TV.

Please stay with us tonight as we pause to remember, remember Corporal Dale A. Burger, Jr., just 21 -- should have been in college -- an American hero.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We at NANCY GRACE want very much to help solve unsolved homicides, find missing people. Take a look at 27-year-old Lisa Ann Bourquard, mother of two. Her body found January 2005 in her own home, Acworth, Georgia.

If you have information, please call the Carole Sund Carrington Foundation, toll-free, 888-813-8389. Please, help us.

Welcome back. Straight back out to Margaret Murchison with WWJP and WFJA Radios.

Margaret, are we sure that this man`s suicide had nothing to do -- police approach him, he suddenly commits suicide -- had nothing to do with Michelle`s disappearance?

MURCHISON: Nancy, I do not know the answer to that. However, I have my own feelings about that. And personally, it just seems so coincidental. They were seen in the Kangaroo store together the same night, not together but in the same store.

He commits suicide, if he did commit suicide, about six miles from the mobile home where they were that night. And it just seems a little strange to me. And you know, I have been covering this story since it broke. As a matter of fact, I had the first story on the day that it was...

GRACE: Right.

MURCHISON: And anyway, I could not understand why this part even fit in with this story, unless there was some kind of connection.

GRACE: Margaret, I agree.

And to Karen Riojas, Michelle`s mother, in our few remaining moments, what is keeping you going, Karen?

RIOJAS: A lot of prayer. I do want to mention, Nancy, the $10,000 reward that is offered for anyone who has information leading to where Michelle`s whereabouts. And they can remain anonymous. They do not have to tell their name.

GRACE: Let me give that tip line again, Karen, 919-718-4577. And it is confidential.

Thank you especially to Karen Riojas, but to all of our guests.

Our biggest thank you is to you for inviting all of us and our legal stories and our search for Michelle into your home. Tomorrow night, an incredible new revelation. The prison files of an accused killer, Steven Avery, currently behind bars in connection with the murder of photographer Teresa Halbach.

Coming up, headlines from all around the world. I`m Nancy Grace signing off for tonight. I hope to see you right here tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END