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American Morning

Domestic Spying; Penguin Parents; Blackberry Blues; Minding Your Business

Aired January 24, 2006 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome back, everybody.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good to have you with us this morning.

S. O'BRIEN: Lots to get to.

We're talking this morning about the controversial wiretap plan. The Bush administration really going all out this week to convince Americans that the domestic spy program is legal and justified. Today Attorney General Alberto Gonzales goes to bat for warrantless wiretaps. He calls domestic spying lawful and necessary tools for protecting America from terrorists.

The attorney general joins us this morning. He's at the Justice Department.

Nice to see you, Mr. Attorney General. Thanks for talking with us, sir.

ALBERTO GONZALES, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Good morning.

S. O'BRIEN: Can you clarify for me, sir, who exactly is being listened in on? Is it just Al Qaeda? Is it Al Qaeda suspects? Could it be people making international phone calls here in the U.S. or calls internationally coming into the U.S.?

GONZALES: Thanks for that question, because I disagree with the characterization of this being a domestic spying program. This is about intelligence, gathering up intelligence regarding terrorists against al Qaeda.

With respect to each of these communications, we're talking about communications where one end of the call is outside of the United States, and where there's a reasonable basis to believe, based on the experience of a qualified foreign intelligence expert, that a person on the call is either a member of al Qaeda or a member of an organization that is affiliated with al Qaeda. That's what this program is about. It's very targeted, it's very narrowed, and it's focused on gathering information about the enemy, al Qaeda, which attacked America on September 11th.

S. O'BRIEN: The last time you and I spoke, you told me that Congress had essentially authorized this. Here's what Senator Arlen Specter has to say about that. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ARLEN SPECTER, (R) JUDICIARY CHAIRMAN: The initial claim to authority from the resolution to authorize the use of force, I think, is very, very thin. If the president had asked for authority and The Patriot Act, we would have had a determination as to whether Congress wanted to give it to him. But to say that there was congressional intent in the resolution for force, I think, is a stretch.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN: He's the chairman of these hearings that are forthcoming. He's a Republican as well. And he doesn't seem as convinced as you do that this is legal and that Congress gave its blessing to the program.

GONZALES: Well, I'll have an opportunity to make my case before Senator Specter and the entire Senate Judiciary Committee on February 6th. It's easy to say, you know, we didn't intend to authorize this kind of activity, but I would challenge anyone who is saying that to look at the analysis of the Supreme Court in the Homni (ph) decision regarding their interpretation of the authorization to use military force and what they say that authorization allows the president to do, which is to engage in all activities that are fundamentally incidental to waging war and engaging in electronic surveillance of the enemy is a fundamental incident of waging war. So I look forward to having a good discussion with Chairman Specter and other members of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

S. O'BRIEN: Let's listen to what President Bush had to say when he was in Kansas yesterday. Just a little clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know it's amazing when people say to me, well he was just breaking the law. If I wanted to break the law, why was I briefing Congress?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN: There's certainly members of Congress who would say, yes, they were briefed, but because it was such a critical information, they couldn't go public with their concerns and they were critical, they say, at the time. How do you respond to them?

GONZALES: You know, we all take an oath to defend the Constitution, to uphold our laws and I think that any public official who truly believes that a law is being broken, I think, has an obligation to say something, either privately to those of us in the executive branch or to say something publicly about the fact that they have concerns that laws are being broken. And so I've sat in on some of these briefings. I'm aware of what's been told in some of these briefings. I know that there were ample opportunities for people to ask questions, to raise concerns. And as far as I'm concerned, we have briefed the Congress. They're aware of the scope of these activities. And we continue to do what we can to assure Congress about what we're doing under these authorities.

S. O'BRIEN: There are several terror suspects, as you well know, whose cases are in federal court right now. Are these people whose evidence against them were gotten through this kind of wiretapping?

GONZALES: I can't speak to specific cases. What I can say is, we believe the program is lawful, that the information gathered was gathered in a lawful manner and would not in any way jeopardize any ongoing prosecutions.

S. O'BRIEN: But, theoretically, it really could compromise these cases. I mean, in theory, you could have someone who is a suspected, maybe not yet convicted, terrorist. But, because you have evidence gathered in sort of legal shaky ground, it could be tossed out, right? I mean that's a realistic hypothetical, isn't it?

GONZALES: Soledad, we begin with the proposition this information is gathered in a lawful manner. We believe the legal authorities are there under the Constitution and under the authorization to use military force.

S. O'BRIEN: Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, always nice to talk with you, sir. Thanks for being with us.

GONZALES: Thank you.

S. O'BRIEN: Coming up in our next hour, we're going to fact check on what's being said on both sides of this wiretap controversy. Jeff Toobin is going to join us, David Ensor as well.

Other stories making news this morning. Carol has those.

Good morning again.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

Good morning to all of you.

Saddam Hussein's trial being pushed back until Sunday now. We're hearing some witnesses were unable to show up. The delay comes one day after a new judge was put on the bench. The last head judge quit amid complaints he was being too easy on Saddam Hussein and not able to control his outbursts.

Uncle Sam could be looking for a few good men. Not just any men, elite fighters skilled in routing out terrorists. A new Pentagon review reportedly calls for adding thousands to the special operations command. The group includes rangers, Navy SEALs and Army special forces or green berets. According to "The Washington Post," the plan would bring the ranks to their highest level since the Vietnam War. The review will be sent next month to the White House and to Congress.

After 12 years of liberal rule, Canada taking a step to the right. Canadians voted conservative, which means Stephen Harper will now be the new prime minister. Harper takes over for Paul Martin. The move is expected to move Canada even closer to the United States because Harper's agenda is said to be more in tune with President Bush's.

U.S. Supreme Court Nominee Samuel Alito is close to clearing another hurdle in his confirmation process. The Senate Judiciary Committee is expected to approve his nomination today. The full Senate will then pick up the debate probably starting tomorrow. Judge Alito's nomination is expected to pass and that seems to fall in line with what some of you are thinking. A CNN/"USA Today" Gallup Poll shows about 54 percent of the people asked support Alito's confirmation, 30 percent disapprove. The full Senate could vote as early as this week.

Lawsuit avoided. We were hearing threats of lawsuits after New York Knicks forward Antonio Davis' impromptu visit with a Chicago Bulls fan last week. Davis thought the fan was drunk and that he was touching his wife. The fan said he wasn't drunk. Besides, Mrs. Davis scratched him and he wanted to sue. Well now, both sides say it was all just a misunderstanding. What's not being dropped, Davis' suspension. He's sitting out five games as punishment for leaving the court. So it's not quite all over yet, Chad.

(WEATHER REPORT)

M. O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Apparently you can train a penguin.

S. O'BRIEN: OK.

M. O'BRIEN: To eat. That is it.

S. O'BRIEN: OK.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, just thought I would press on and . . .

S. O'BRIEN: Thanks for updating us on that breaking news story.

M. O'BRIEN: We've done some research on this and . . .

S. O'BRIEN: Anything else you want to talk about?

M. O'BRIEN: We bring this up because we were talking about the plight of two penguins in Great Britain and their missing progeny.

S. O'BRIEN: Baby penguin.

M. O'BRIEN: Or penguiny (ph).

S. O'BRIEN: That's such a sad story.

M. O'BRIEN: Toga is the name of the penguin. Who names a penguin Toga?

S. O'BRIEN: The zoo apparently, yes.

M. O'BRIEN: They don't wear toga's, they wear tuxedo. Anyway, remember -- it's a black tie every day for them. Well remember, someone stole Toga or Toga got missing or something. Anyway, vanished. We do have happy news to report. Paula Newton live in London with more on all this.

Hello, Paula.

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello.

This is one of those stories you just can't get away from. A lot of interest about what happened to Toga. Toga was stolen from the Amazon Zoo. It's a few hours here outside of London. It was very sad. Stolen in December. They're still not quite sure what happened to Toga.

The good news is, the parents came out of their depression, which lasted about 10 days. Guess what? They laid a new egg. They should have a new baby by the end of February. Everyone at the zoo is absolutely thrilled.

And there's a lot of people in the United States following this. I was talking to the zoo director a little while ago, Derek Curtis, and says almost half of all his inquiries are from the United States. So everyone's listening. And they're calling it for now Toga 2, but they don't have a name yet.

Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Toga 2? So what are they expecting, because we'd like to send a little something? A little mackerel or something.

NEWTON: Yes, the most -- it takes apparently give or take 40 days to hatch this egg, so it should be the end of February. Keeping their fingers crossed.

And on a serious note, at this zoo they are conservationists. They want to return this type of a penguin, it's called a Jackass penguin. Everyone hear that, the Jackass penguin. Down to . . .

M. O'BRIEN: The Jackass penguin. Uh-huh.

NEWTON: A Jackass penguin. And they're trying to reintroduce it into its natural habitat in South Africa. So that's the end game here. But the parents are really depressed, Miles. I don't know, "March of the Penguins," I don't know if everyone recalls, I mean the parents were really depressed when something happened to that egg. And it was really sad there for a while at the zoo.

So a lot of people following this story and we do hope for a happy ending. No sign of Toga, the original, unfortunately. They think someone stole it and, unfortunately, it probably did die. That's what they're thinking right now.

M. O'BRIEN: Oh, really? Oh, wow.

All right, Paula, it's a bittersweet tale. Thank you very much. And keep us posted as Toga 2 . . .

NEWTON: We will.

M. O'BRIEN: Makes his way in . . .

S. O'BRIEN: Oh, I hope they change the name.

M. O'BRIEN: Toga 2? Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: I mean, as Paula said, it's just sort of like a holding . . .

M. O'BRIEN: It's a placeholder name. Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, the Toga 2 after you lose Toga 1. That's not good luck.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes. Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: No.

M. O'BRIEN: Coming up on the program, if you use a Blackberry, you're another step closer to losing your e-mail. Where can you turn if it happens? We'll look at some Blackberry alternatives.

But first, the question. Do you know the answer to this? Where did the name come from?

S. O'BRIEN: No idea.

M. O'BRIEN: Was it the tiny keys that were thought to look fruit seeds, a. B, the fruit eaten by the product inventors? Or, c, the last name of the company's CEO. I did this one by process of elimination. The answer after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Earlier, before the break, we asked the ultimate question. Why is a Blackberry a Blackberry? The answer is a, the tiny keys look like seeds. Hmm. Maybe they were smoking their crack berries at that time when they came up with that idea. An employee at the company hired to come up with the name suggested strawberry initially but Blackberry was chosen because of the more memorable double b sound and, of course, most of them are black.

Oh, wow is us device carrying members of the Blackberry nation, fretting this morning as the Supreme Court takes a pass, leaving the fate of these devices to a lower court. And the issue is, who devised the technology that makes a Blackberry so very, very good to me? It seems the company that makes them devised the idea. At the same time, another company was cooking up the same innovation. Coincidence but the rest is a legal mess.

So what is a crack berry addicted person to do? Joining us from the CNN Center in Atlanta, CNN Technology Correspondent Daniel Sieberg.

All right, just walk us through the next couple of weeks, Daniel. My take on this is, it's just not going to happen. They're going to pay it off at the last minute. What do you think? DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you're not alone in that thinking, Miles. There are a lot of analysts out there who feel like this will be resolved behind the scenes, whether it's financially or legally. But at least one analyst I spoke to said there could still be a shutdown even if it's brief.

Now the earliest this could all happen would be the beginning of February. There's a hearing that could be scheduled at that time, followed by NTP -- a briefing filed by NTP. That's the other company in all of this, Research in Motion, or RIM, being the company that makes the Blackberries.

There's A lot of legal lees (ph) and I'll try not to get bogged down by all of this. But basically, this has been going back and forth between various levels of courts and patent offices for almost five years. So it's coming a little bit closer to being decided at this point.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Well, you know, the Blackberry's the best thing to come out of Canada since hockey, Molson (ph) and Daniel Sieberg.

SIEBERG: Maple syrup.

M. O'BRIEN: And maple syrup too. But I understand they have some work arounds. Tell us about those.

SIEBERG: Yes, RIM is promising that if this injunction gets put in place in the next couple -- few weeks, if this actually goes forward, that they have a work-around technology. Now what that means is that the average Blackberry user or corporation might have to get this fixed, like a patch. It would change the way the Blackberry receives and sends e-mail. But this has not been proven yet and there are some analysts that are fairly skeptical about this whole work- around, whether it will actually work and how easy it will be to roll it out. Because we were talking about over four million users of the Blackberry in the U.S. alone.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, and that leaves us with the possibility that we might have to look at some alternatives. And, you know, I carry a Trio, too, and it just pales by comparison. It crashes all the time. It's much slower. But I guess, in a pinch, is that an option for folks? What other options are out there?

SIEBERG: Well, there are a few other options out there. Of course, all of Research in Motion's competitors, Microsoft, Nokia, you mentioned Palm and others, are salivating at the prospect that RIM is going to have problems going forward here. They would love it if you decided to go with another option. Some analyst groups are actually recommending that companies be weary of buying Blackberries for say a sales force or something before this decision is known. So there are options out there but they're a little bit different.

And, Miles, I think you were talking earlier about how people really swear by their Blackberry or crack berry because it is so reliable. In the tech world we like to use the word robust, which means that it works when you want it to, it's quick and it's fairly easy and you don't even see what's going on behind the scenes.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, no, it's fast and it doesn't crash. It's got a lot of memory. It really does, when you look at what else is out there, it is the real thing. It is the e-mail solution.

Let me just ask you this though. The government, they are exempted from this potential blackout. What's that all about?

SIEBERG: Apparently they will be deemed as part of these essential services. Emergency workers would be among that group, as well as any federal, state and local government workers because -- and you really do see them using their Blackberries all the time but they deem these to be critical for their work. Now there would be others who would argue that they're critical for their work as well and perhaps journalists are lumped into that group. We use them a lot. Full disclosure, I used my Blackberry to research about 75 percent of this story yesterday. So it certainly is something that lots of people use, lots of people rely on and lots of people will be worried if it went away.

However, I did speak to a few people, perhaps some beleaguered spouses and family members of those who use them all the time, who might be happy that these went away for a little while and perhaps taught us all a little bit about disconnecting every so often. Maybe not driving while you're using your Blackberry, which I actually have been known to do that on occasion.

M. O'BRIEN: Do not do that, Daniel.

SIEBERG: Do not do that. I'm not recommending that people to do that.

M. O'BRIEN: Kids don't try that at home.

SIEBERG: Right.

M. O'BRIEN: Were you talking to Sandy O'Brien about the Blackberry? Is that where you got your information on that?

SIEBERG: Could be. Could be.

M. O'BRIEN: She really hates the thing. Really hates it.

SIEBERG: Yes, my fiancee, too. But maybe we should do a quick demonstration, Miles. I hope we have time.

M. O'BRIEN: Sure. Yes, we have time.

SIEBERG: Have you got your Blackberry right there?

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, I do.

SIEBERG: OK.

M. O'BRIEN: Lay it on me.

SIEBERG: I've got mine here.

M. O'BRIEN: OK.

SIEBERG: So if you can send me an e-mail. What we can illustrate to people. This is the new 8700c.

M. O'BRIEN: Oh, are you showing off on me?

SIEBERG: I think it might be one better than yours, Miles, just the way you talked about yours earlier.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

SIEBERG: So you go ahead and send me an e-mail. We can sort of illustrate to people just how quick and efficient this is. I'm sure people in the studio there know that Miles is often in that position hunched over his Blackberry.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes. Yes.

SIEBERG: Sending a message.

M. O'BRIEN: It's, you know, I forgot, I should have loaded your name in here.

SIEBERG: Right, you're doing a look up, as they say?

M. O'BRIEN: Yes. Yes, all that stuff. Yes. All right, so here we go. Save. OK. And D. Sieberg. And this is really fast, Daniel, I'll tell you.

SIEBERG: This is live television at its finest right here, Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: OK. So now I'm going to send you the message.

SIEBERG: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: I'm going to call it test.

SIEBERG: OK.

M. O'BRIEN: It's brilliant.

SIEBERG: Very original title.

M. O'BRIEN: And here's the thing, the technology is much faster than the other stuff because it pushes the e-mail into your device.

SIEBERG: Here it is right here, Miles, by the way.

M. O'BRIEN: Just like that.

SIEBERG: There it is. M. O'BRIEN: Wow.

SIEBERG: There's the e-mail right there. So that took, what, five seconds once you actually sent it on.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, nothing matches that.

SIEBERG: That's pretty incredible. So, I mean, that's what really gets people hooked into this technology. Whether or not it goes away, even for a short period of time, nobody knows for sure. But there is certainly a lot of speculation. A lot of money at stake here. We're talking possibly, possibly a settlement worth $1 billion. So a lot going on behind the scenes here.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, let's take up a collection.

SIEBERG: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: All right.

SIEBERG: You and me both.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, thank you, Daniel.

SIEBERG: All right.

M. O'BRIEN: CNN Technology Correspondent Daniel Sieberg or geek god as we like to call him around here.

Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: The business god is Andy Serwer. He's "Mining Your Business" in just a few moments.

ANDY SERWER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wow, I like that. Thank you very much, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: I bet you do. That will be $20, please.

What you got coming up?

SERWER: OK. All Trump all the time, Soledad. We'll tell you what The Donald is up to next. You won't believe it. Stay tuned to AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: I love Neil Diamond.

SERWER: Yes, more than Mr. Smirnoff even.

S. O'BRIEN: I like him as well.

M. O'BRIEN: He's coming to America!

SERWER: Yes, I like that. M. O'BRIEN: Remember that? Smirnoff, that ties it together. Borgnine with "McHale's Navy."

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, OK. It all works.

SERWER: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: Business news. Donald Trump's got kind of a new deal going on. What's happening?

SERWER: He sure does, Soledad. You know, he's in real estate, of course. He's in fashion. He's in TV. Even bottled water. But, get this, he's now in the online travel business. Donald Trump unveiling a new business today. Gotrump.com. Who knows why he's doing this. It's kind of a high-end travel deal. Private jets, private clubs. And if you find a better deal, you get 120 percent of your money back the Web site says. I had some other ideas for . . .

M. O'BRIEN: Because a hundred isn't good enough for Donald.

SERWER: No, 120.

M. O'BRIEN: It's got to be 120.

SERWER: You can make money on this.

M. O'BRIEN: It's like spinal tap!

SERWER: You could make money, right. This guitar goes to 11.

Some other ideas for Donald Trump I came up with that he could get into, how about a dating service? That might work. Hair salons for men.

S. O'BRIEN: Only models.

SERWER: Yes, only model. Hair salons for men. And self-help books on how to cope with an inferiority complex. But I better watch out because he might sue me.

Now speaking of lawsuits. This just crossing the tape. Donald Trump has sued the publisher and author of a new book, "Trump Nation: The Art of Being The Donald." This is written by respected "New York Times" reporter Tim O'Brien and published by Warner Books, our sister company. He's suing Warner and O'Brien for $5 billion. I mean, come on. This is crazy. And he says what he's really concerned about is that O'Brien in the book says he's not even close to being a billionaire. Is that defaming someone?

And then he goes on and says, Donald says in his press release, rather than sitting back and letting false statements be published without challenge, I believe it is important to expose irresponsible reporting, whether it's Jason Blair or Tim O'Brien. I mean, I'm not even going to read this. It's just crazy.

S. O'BRIEN: Wow. M. O'BRIEN: And what he is doing is sending sales of the book through the roof.

SERWER: Go out and buy Tim O'Brien and Warner Book's book. It's called "Trump Nation."

S. O'BRIEN: Tim O'Brien is dealing with his attorney on it.

SERWER: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: And also now it's, you know, you're right, going to go climb the charts.

SERWER: There were other -- some romantic things in the book apparently that The Donald . . .

S. O'BRIEN: Took exception to.

SERWER: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: Romantic things.

SERWER: And I'm not going to get into that because then he will be sending me a (INAUDIBLE), no doubt.

S. O'BRIEN: Thank you, Andy.

SERWER: You're welcome.

M. O'BRIEN: Oh, earlier, we heard from the attorney general. Soledad interviewed him. He was defending a White House wiretap program. But how does his take square with the facts? Our Senior Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin will stop by with a reality check ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: Still to come, did you hear about this wild scene on that Continental Airlines flight?

S. O'BRIEN: (INAUDIBLE) going from Ft. Lauderdale, right, to Newark.

M. O'BRIEN: Headed to Newark. Taxing out. The guy gets a little -- wants to get off the plane. You know, maybe he's just scared to fly. We don't know yet. Goes to the cockpit, starts banging on the door, banging on the windows. Passengers are saying, oh, not good. They try to subdue him. In the process of that, one of the passengers gets a healthy bite taken out of him. Ultimately he ends up on the tarmac Tasered and now he's in custody. He's lucky he's alive given what happened, what, about a month ago with that air marshal. Anyway, we'll check in with the bitee (ph) a little later. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: Good morning. I'm Miles O'Brien.

A last minute delay in the Saddam Hussein trial. It was supposed to be going on as we speak. What caused the latest setback? We're live with the chaos from Baghdad.

S. O'BRIEN: I'm Soledad O'Brien.

The president defends domestic spying. We'll take you live to the White House for more on the wiretapping program.

M. O'BRIEN: And why did a man jump off a moving airplane. We'll hear from one of the passengers that tried to stop him. He got bit for his trouble. That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

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