Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Defending Domestic Spying; Last-Minute Delay in Hussein Trial; Emergency Exit

Aired January 24, 2006 - 07:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm Miles O'Brien.
A last-minute delay in the Saddam Hussein trial. It was supposed to be going on as we speak. What caused the latest setback?

We're live with the chaos from Baghdad.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Soledad O'Brien.

The president defends domestic spying. We'll take you live to the White House for more on the wiretapping program.

M. O'BRIEN: And why did a man jump off a moving airplane? We'll hear from one of the passengers that tried to stop him. He got bit for his trouble.

That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

Yes, passenger bites passenger. That's news.

S. O'BRIEN: Oh, yes, that's a headline for sure. We'll get into that story a little bit later.

M. O'BRIEN: Absolutely.

S. O'BRIEN: First, though, we're talking about the White House in the midst of this week-long campaign to defend domestic spying without a warrant.

Let's get right to Elaine Quijano. She's live for us this morning.

Hey, Elaine. Good morning.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Soledad.

And as you know, in your interview with the attorney general, Alberto Gonzales, just in the last half-hour or so we got a preview what he is likely to say when he delivers his speech on this controversial surveillance program later today at Georgetown University. The attorney general trying to make the case that the administration's use of wiretaps on Americans without court-issued warrants is legal. That, despite some critics saying that it is not legal. Now, the attorney general, in your interview, emphasized that it is the international communications of people believed to have terrorist ties that are subject to monitoring.

Here is what the attorney general had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALBERTO GONZALES, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: It's very targeted. It's very narrowed. And it's focused on getting information about the enemy, al Qaeda, which attacked America on September 11.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: And that, in effect, is the same argument that President Bush outlined yesterday. The president in Kansas making the argument that he also has the constitutional authority, he believes, to order those wiretaps. And he says that that authority, under the Constitution, is bolsters by a congressional use of force measure that was passed in the days after September 11.

The White House, Soledad, also saying that it has briefed congressional leaders on this issue more than a dozen times. However, some lawmakers have expressed concerns, saying that they believe those briefings were inadequate.

Now, this stepped-up administration effort, this campaign to bolster support for the program, really intended, Soledad, to get out ahead of congressional hearings on this issue next month.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, got it. All right. Elaine Quijano for us this morning.

Elaine, thank you.

Some key Republicans, we should add, are helping the president defend his wiretapping program. That includes the first President Bush, who spoke with CNN's Larry King last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE HERBERT WALKER BUSH, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've gotten a little forgetful, Larry, about 9/11. And I think if one phone call is intercepted that can -- that can guarantee against another such plot or make another such plot fail, it's worth it.

And he spelled out what they're trying to do in listening. And it's not like you're invading everybody's home, some guy in Des Moines talking to somebody in Reno. That's not what this is all about.

So I'm supportive. And I think -- a lot of people said, well, you're pounding on your civil rights, you're not giving -- you're invading our privacies. It's a very narrow -- narrow band that's being used, and I think the president is pretty darn clear on it. And fortunately, the country seems to be backing on him, from what I've seen. (END VIDEO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN: You can catch "LARRY KING LIVE" every night 9:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: The chaotic Saddam Hussein trial should be in session right now, but now there is another delay without a very good explanation.

CNN's Aneesh Raman live in Baghdad.

Aneesh, why this delay?

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Miles, good morning. Here is what happened.

Four hours after the court was set to convene after all those involved had gathered in the courthouse, a spokesman for Iraqi High Tribunal came to the media gallery where we were sequestered and read a simple statement which said the court would not convene today because witnesses could not appear in court to testify. The court, they said, would convene on Sunday.

Now, this raises any number of questions. They also said some of the witnesses were out of the country for the Hajj pilgrimage. Well, that pilgrimage ended well over a week ago.

Secondly, if there were witnesses out of the country, why was that not known prior to today? And why did it take four hours to resolve this situation this morning?

This is the first time, Miles, the court has set a date to convene and not met at all in open session. Not a good first for a court that has been riddled with issues from the start -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Aneesh, Saddam's lawyers are fighting over the very legitimacy of this court. And all this chaos sort of lends credence to their case, doesn't it?

RAMAN: It does. And they're going to pounce on something that took place yesterday, a shakeup at the top of the court we reported here.

A new interim chief judge who is replacing the former chief judge, Rizgar Mohammed Amin, he resigned because he said he felt public and private pressure from the government to speed up this trial. That is something the defense heard very loudly and are trying to get further information on. They feel that they -- if there is any interference by the Iraqi government in this legal process, that in and of itself in a more immediate way questions the legitimacy beyond whether or not this court should of been started in the first place -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Aneesh Raman in Baghdad, who was in the courtroom today for what should of been another day in court. And they will be back in session on Sunday, we're told. At least that's what we're told for new.

Let's get some other headlines in. Speaking of courts, here's a court that's not -- there's no question of legitimacy anyhow -- Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, some might argue with that. I don't know.

Good morning, everyone.

Samuel Alito moves closer to becoming a U.S. Supreme Court justice today. The majority Republican Senate Judiciary Committee is expected to approve his nomination to the high court. That vote is expected to be along party lines. A vote before the full Senate could come by the end of this week.

West Virginia is trying to a make its mines safer. The new measure comes after 14 miners have died in the past three weeks. Lawmakers want miners to wear wireless devices so they can be found more quickly. They also want to se up a 24-hour mine hotline.

In the meantime, the condition of Randy McCloy has been upgraded to fair. He is the lone survivor from the Sago Mine tragedy. Doctors say he is reacting to visitors but he still cannot speak.

The Dallas, Texas, Housing Authority says be patient. Some Hurricane Katrina evacuees living there could be evicted because the housing authority is behind on its December rent.

According to the "Dallas Morning News," the agency says it is overwhelmed with a large number of housing vouchers and it's behind paying landlords. The checks, as they say, are in the mail.

And the ax is falling hard at the Ford Motor Company. The number two automaker is planning to cut a quarter of its workforce in North America. That's as many as 30,000 jobs. Ford says it's losing market shares to Asian competitors.

Let's head to Atlanta now to check in with Chad.

Good morning.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Carol.

(WEATHER REPORT)

S. O'BRIEN: Sounds all right there. Chad, thank you.

MYERS: You're welcome.

S. O'BRIEN: The parents of Toga, the little penguin, well, they're moving on, apparently. You'll remember that Toga, who was stolen from a British zoo just before Christmas, they were pleading, national plea, international plea, even, for his return, but Toga has never been found.

Well, now Toga's parents are ready to give parenthood one more try. Kayella (ph) and Oscar -- that's the name of the mom and dad -- have a new egg. In about 40 days, they're going to have a little chick to call their own once again.

The working title is Toga 2. Hopefully that will change.

We're hoping, of course, that they're going to install some better security measures to protect this little penguin to be.

M. O'BRIEN: I should say, yes. I mean, a little concertino wire around there or something.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: Guard towers. Whatever it takes.

S. O'BRIEN: Maybe not quite that severe, but a little protection for the little guys would be helpful.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes. Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: Ahead this morning we are talking about a domestic spying reality check. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales -- we talked to him just a few minutes ago -- really defended it. So how do his explanations stack up to reality? We're going to take a look at that this morning.

M. O'BRIEN: Also, did you hear about this guy? He jumped off a moving plane, on the ground, we should tell you. And before that, he apparently bit another passenger. We'll ask the guy who was bitten what happened.

And later, week three of the "New You Revolution." We'll check in with the Rampollas, find out why their biggest challenge might be the kids.

Isn't that always the way it is? The kids.

S. O'BRIEN: Always.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: Welcome back.

What in the world was Troy Rigby thinking when he got out of his seat on a moving 737, started banging on the cockpit doors and windows? Eventually jumped out onto the tarmac at Fort Lauderdale's airport. Oh, and in the midst of this fracas with the passengers who were trying to subdue him, bit hard into the flesh of one Paul Sigler.

Good morning, Paul. How are you feeling?

PAUL SIGLER, BIT BY PLANE JUMPER: OK, thank you. Good morning.

M. O'BRIEN: Just OK?

SIGLER: Yes. M. O'BRIEN: You're banged up, you think you broke a bone in the midst of this fracas. And can you show us the bite mark?

SIGLER: It's on my left arm. And I didn't even know he bit me until the paramedics actually looked at me and they saw blood.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

SIGLER: So my hand was the thing that was swollen and was hurting the most.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, show -- raise up your hand so we can see what you got, your war wounds, there. More in front of you, if you could. We can't see it over there. There you go.

All right. All right.

The point is you're going to be OK, but this was a wild scene.

Can you just describe -- you were on the ground. Was it...

(CROSSTALK)

SIGLER: We were on the ground.

M. O'BRIEN: You had a gate hold, is that what it was, a 40- minute gate hold?

SIGLER: Yes. We were in a gate hold, and we were 45 minutes before we were supposed to take off. And at 5:00, the captain came on said, "We're going to turn on the engines and we're going to go out to the runway," and all of a sudden this man just bolted from the back and went right into the cockpit doors, body-slammed it.

A couple of us passengers got up. There was one flight attendant up front, like, "Calm down. Calm down. Sit. We're taking off. We're taking off."

The one flight attendant went to the back to get the handcuffs. They took the passenger to seat 1B and they asked him, you know, to just sit down and relax.

Well, I guess the captain depressurized the plane, then the man went nuts. He was kicking all the doors. He beat the flight attendant up pretty well.

I had grabbed him by the shoulder and by the shirt. His shirt ripped. A couple of other passengers were holding his arm.

I grabbed his head and I grabbed his neck, and he started snapping at me with his teeth. He just said he wanted to get off.

I held his neck, held his arm. He took his head and banged my hand into the wall between his head and eventually got the door open and stuck his leg out. And at that point we just couldn't hold him anymore. He slipped away. M. O'BRIEN: All right. So who opened the door, then?

SIGLER: He did.

M. O'BRIEN: He opened the door.

SIGLER: He did.

M. O'BRIEN: The main door, the door you'd walk into? Or an emergency door?

SIGLER: The main cabin door you walk into. The main cabin door you'd walk into.

M. O'BRIEN: OK. So as the -- how far away were you from the gate at this point?

SIGLER: We were well aware from the gate.

M. O'BRIEN: You were?

SIGLER: And we were sitting, I guess, in the penalty box area waiting to take off.

M. O'BRIEN: OK. And all through this, what are you thinking?

I mean, the first thing I would be thinking is, whatever you do, don't take off, pilot. We don't want to leave with this guy on the plane, right?

SIGLER: It was just odd. I mean, it just happened so fast, though it seems like it took forever.

He just ran to the front. And passengers got up and, you know, the flight crew tried to calm him down. And it looked like he was going to calm down. And I was pretty sure they were going to take us back to the gate.

Then all of a sudden, he just went berserk. You couldn't hold him back. I mean, there was -- there was four big guys on him, and we could not hold him back.

And he was just -- he was kicking, thrashing, biting, and he just said he wanted to get off the plane. He wanted to get off the plane. He was claustrophobic.

M. O'BRIEN: Did you -- well, I guess certainly that could make people kind of nuts if they were truly claustrophobic. Do you think there was any drugs involved? Any sense of that?

SIGLER: Something wasn't right. I don't know if he had a panic attack.

I heard on other news reports this morning there was actually a warrant out for his arrest for marijuana possession. So -- but he was sitting in there for 45 minutes. And all of a sudden, as we were ready to go, he decided to go off the deep end.

M. O'BRIEN: Now, are you going -- are you going to take it up with him? Are you going to file charges? What are you going to do?

SIGLER: The authorities last night asked me if I was going to file charges, and I said, yes, I am going to file chars. I haven't heard from the airline or anything. I'm getting on a plane this morning at 10:25 to finish my trip. I just didn't feel like doing it last night.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, we wish you well on your flight today. We hope it's uneventful, in every respect.

SIGLER: I hope so, too.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Paul Sigler, a wild scene on that Continental flight yesterday. And...

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, it gives the phrase "eventful trip" kind of a new meaning. You know, I couldn't get a good shot at the bite on his arm, but it was bleeding. That sounds -- and he's broken a finger, too.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, and he broke -- he broke a bone. It just goes to show you, you know, post-9/11, the mindset of passengers is so different now. If something happens, you intervene. You know?

S. O'BRIEN: Well, how great that they all -- you know, that he said four big guys got up and jumped on the guy.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: But can you imagine you have four people on you and you can still push open the door, the main entry door and jump out.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: These four guys couldn't subdue him. What a -- it will be so interesting when we find out really what happened.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: I mean, what was the real root cause.

Ahead this morning, couples taking desperate steps to get pregnant. We've got a story on this, this morning. Some people are actually turning to fertility drugs they are getting on the black market.

Also this morning, a little more evidence that the White House knew just how bad Hurricane Katrina was going to be before the hurricane hit. We'll tell you about that as we continue here on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) M. O'BRIEN: More evidence of government bungling in the days before Hurricane Katrina hit. We're learning today a group with the Department of Homeland Security sent the White House an assessment of what that storm might do to New Orleans. It was sent before the storm ever made landfall, about 48 hours in advance.

It warned of breached levees, massive flooding, major losses of life and property. All sound familiar, of course.

It predicted losses in the tens of billions of dollars. President Bush said just three days after Katrina hit that no one anticipated the levees would be breached.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

S. O'BRIEN: Michael Eric Dyson has written three "New York Times" best-sellers. His new book deals with the role of race in response to Hurricane Katrina. It's called "Come Hell or High Water."

Author Michael Eric Dyson joins us this morning.

Nice to see you.

MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, "COME HELL OR HIGH WATER": Good to see you.

S. O'BRIEN: We should mention that you say the subtitle here is "Hurricane Katrina and the Color of Disaster."

DYSON: Yes. Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: We certainly put the question to many people, what kind of role did race play in the response to Hurricane Katrina? What do you think?

DYSON: Well, I think it played a huge role. Obviously, we have to distinguish between racist intent and racial consequence. And that's what I did. I don't think people sat around saying, oh, it's a bunch of black people, let's just leave them alone.

I think that race pervades everything in American culture. So how could it not pervade the response to Hurricane Katrina?

There was ineptitude, there was ignorance, there was inexperience on the part of FEMA, there was cronyism. George Bush has a bunch of guys in there who don't really know about emergency management.

We know poor white people were affected, we know rich people were affected. But the brunt of the response in terms of its negative consequences were borne by black people.

S. O'BRIEN: When I talked to the sheriff of St. Bernard Parish, and I said to him, "You know, across the way in New Orleans" -- even though it would take us three hours to get to him.

DYSON: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: ... you know, five minutes away, really...

DYSON: Right.

S. O'BRIEN: ... they're saying -- they're saying it's -- race is at the base of why the slow response. And he said, "Soledad, I've got to tell you, my community is 93 percent white."

DYSON: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: You know, "And we were here with four days, too, without anything."

DYSON: Right.

S. O'BRIEN: "Nobody helped us."

DYSON: Right. Well, we're not saying -- see, when -- people I think misunderstand when they say race played a role. It don't mean that the white folk didn't get hurt and the black folk got helped. But the majority of people, the overwhelming majority, 70 percent of the city -- so when you talk about all of our people, or say 93 percent, that's 93 percent of what, the 30 that's left. So the reality is the overwhelming number of people who were disserved were African-American people.

S. O'BRIEN: Got to ask you a couple questions about Mayor Ray Nagin, who has said that the hurricane was brought upon by god.

DYSON: Yes. Yes. I'm a Baptist preacher. I preach Sunday...

S. O'BRIEN: I can tell you are.

DYSON: ... at (INAUDIBLE) Baptist Church in New York. And a little kid five years old came up to me, a hurricane survivor living in a hotel. He said -- he said, "Did Hurricane Katrina" -- you know, "Did God bring the flood on us?" I said, "No, baby, god did not bring that flood."

S. O'BRIEN: The mayor -- the mayor says yes.

DYSON: God doesn't speak in that language.

Yes, whether you're on the left or right, whether you say god brought the mayor -- the flood because you want to beat down on America for Iraq, or whether you're on the right wing and you say, as some people said, America is being punished because we pulled out of Israel -- I mean, Israel pulled out, and we helped them with the Gaza Strip, or because people are gay or black, that's ridiculous. So I don't believe this god beating up on anything.

As for the "chocolate city" comments Mayor Nagin made, let me see -- 67.8 percent, it's already a chocolate city. Wake up, America. That's what it is.

George Clinton...

S. O'BRIEN: Right. But no one was saying that New Orleans wasn't a black city.

DYSON: Right.

S. O'BRIEN: I think it seemed like the mayor is saying to all of these people trying to desperately get back to recover whatever they can...

DYSON: Right.

S. O'BRIEN: it's going to be a chocolate city once again. I'm not sure if I'm a white resident of New Orleans, like, oh, huh, should I be killing myself to try to rebuild my home which someone has, you know, put a tarp over?

DYSON: Well, no. But I'm saying if the city was 67.8 percent before, and it was already black and it was already chocolate, I don't get the difference.

The difference is you were already living in a city that was predominantly black. It's a chocolate city. It was a chocolate city. We loved it.

So I don't think there's a problem saying that this is a chocolate city if we kind of bring back those poor black people. Now, if you're trying to exclude other people from a white person, you're saying, look, I don't want you, that's very problematic. I don't think that was what Ray Nagin said, but you've got to ask him.

S. O'BRIEN: Well, you know, the good news is we're -- the news is he'll certainly say something else tomorrow and we will be talking about it. He's certainly interesting to cover.

Michael Eric Dyson. The book is called "Come Hell or High Water."

This is a great read.

DYSON: Thank you, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Certainly because we were all knee-deep down there covering that story, too.

DYSON: Yes. Well, I talk about you and your infamous interview with Mr. Brown in there. That was quite amazing.

S. O'BRIEN: High water mark or low water mark, in some ways.

DYSON: Absolutely.

S. O'BRIEN: Nice to see you as always. Thank you.

DYSON: Always good to see you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

M. O'BRIEN: Coming up, the legacy of a fallen Marine and the son he never met. It's the story of how a 3-year-old boy brought together two families. And it's all because of a message in a dream.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: A story now about the casualties of the Iraq war. A Marine dies in battle, leaving behind a son he never knew. A son, in fact, he wasn't even sure was his. But now the little boy who is never going to know his father is bringing two families together.

Kareen Wynter has our story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got you.

KAREEN WYNTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): He has his father's smile...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got you.

WYNTER: ... personality and fascination with cars. But 3-year- old Dylan never got to meet his dad, Lance Corporal Travis Layfield, a 19-year-old Marine killed in Iraq two years ago. This is a story about Travis' sister search for answers. It begins with the little boy his family never knew existed.

Tiffany Hicks says before her younger brother left for Iraq he was involved in a bitter breakup and later learned his ex-girlfriend, Catana Smith, was pregnant.

TIFFANY HICKS, BROTHER KILLED IN IRAQ: He just had this gut feeling that, you know, that that was his child.

WYNTER: Travis would never find out for sure. Catana refused to speak to him.

He went off to war, killed in action just two months into his tour.

HICKS: I remember it like it was yesterday. He was my baby.

WYNTER: Months after his death, Tiffany, or Nini (ph), as Travis affectionately called his sister, started getting messages in her dreams from Travis.

HICKS: He came to me again and said, "Nini (ph), you need to find out if that child is mine." There were so many emotions, you know? Emotions that, oh, my god, Travis could live on.

WYNTER (on camera): That you were driven to do this through your brother?

HICKS: I was driven to do this through my brother. He put me on a mission, a journey, however you want to call it. And I was going to follow through. WYNTER (voice over): Tiffany tracked down Catana, who told her she had a son and thought Travis was the father. That wasn't enough for Tiffany, who asked Catana to do a DNA test. The results confirmed this father's suspicion Dylan was his son.

Two families who hadn't spoken for years were now bonded by a little boy.

DIANE LAYFIELD, SON KILLED IN IRAQ: It was like something had just been lifted off my shoulders, and knowing that Travis now can rest in peace because he knows that we know.

HICKS: His life was taken, but we start anew.

WYNTER: Catana Smith says her one regret, not telling Travis about his son.

CATANA SMITH, EX-BOYFRIEND KILLED IN IRAQ: I always thought I had time. That's one thing, I always thought I'd have time. You know, I'd find him. And time just gets snatched from you.

WYNTER: Time, however, has healed some wounds for a family grateful for the legacy and life this fallen Marine left behind.

Kareen Wynter, CNN, Newark, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

S. O'BRIEN: Wow. What a remarkable story. What a sad thing for the family, but a hopeful thing, too, I guess.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

Still to come on the program, the president says his wiretapping program is perfectly legal. We will check in with our legal analyst, Jeff Toobin, on just what is allowed under the law.

Stay with us for more AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com