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President Bush Meets With Pakistani Prime Minister Aziz; CIA Prisons Inquiry; Palestinian Elections; Senate Judiciary Committee Votes on Alito Nomination; Spain's Illegal Immigration Problems; Right-Wing Activist's Web Site Targets Radical Professors

Aired January 24, 2006 - 11:59   ET


DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: And we're going to look at this videotape just shot in the White House, President Bush and Pakistani Prime Minister Aziz.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think the relationship with Pakistan is a vital relationship for the United States. And I want to thank the prime minister and thank the president for working closely with us on a variety of issues. We're working closely to defeat the terrorists who would like to harm America and harm Pakistan.

We talked about the importance of trade and commerce and investment, and we also talked about the full response to the terrible tragedy that Pakistan has gone through. It's hard to imagine the devastation.

The country host 75,000 people, four million people were made homeless. And I was very pleased that the United States, our taxpayers, our military, could contribute to helping the people of Pakistan recover.

They are our friends. And we consider this friendship to be a vital friendship for -- for keeping the peace.

And so, Mr. Prime Minister, thank you for coming. I'm really looking forward to going to your country. I'll be traveling to India and Pakistan in March. And I want thank you for your invitation and your hospitality in advance

SHAUKAT AZIZ, PAKISTANI PRIME MINISTER: Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you for receiving us.

The United States and Pakistan have a multifaceted relationship, covering a host of areas. It goes back in history. And the people of Pakistan value the relationship very much.

Let me at the outset say that the assistance the United States has given to Pakistan, the Chinooks, the M.A.S.H. hospitals, the engineers, and the financial assistance after the earthquake has touched the hearts and mind of all Pakistanis, and including your private sector and civil society. We really appreciate what has been done, and it will help restore the lives of the people who have been impacted by the earthquake.

A sense of caring and sharing always builds a better relationship between countries. And that's what we are seeing between Pakistan and the United States.

Mr. President, we have a multifaceted relationship and our discussions today, which we'll continue later, have covered a host of areas: the economic side, trade and investment -- we are very keen to expand them. Pakistan is a growing economy, and U.S. investors can take part in this growth.

We also strive for peace in our area. It's an area which has a lot of challenges. And we is pursuing peace with all our neighbors.

We want a solution of all disputes, including the Kashmir dispute. We want to see a strong, stable Afghanistan.

We are against proliferation of nuclear weapons by anybody, and we want to fight terrorism in all its forms and manifestations. There is no good terrorist or bad terrorist. And terrorism knows no borders.

So our coalition with the United States in fighting terrorism is very important to all of the world and all of civil society.

We're delighted we are here to share this time with you, and the people of Pakistan and the president and all our cabinet and various stakeholders in Pakistan are looking forward to your visit, because we think that this is an important visit for building relations further between our two countries and serving the cause of peace in the world.

BUSH: Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Thank you, Mr. Prime Minister.


KAGAN: Looking at videotape shot just a few minutes ago in the White House, Prime Minister Aziz, of Pakistan, and President Bush, as they have a genial meeting there.

Mention of the earthquake and help that came from the United States. Also, talk of fighting terrorism together.

No mention of the controversial airstrike that took place last week along the Pakistan-Afghan border. There has been a lot of criticism within Pakistan of U.S. efforts on that front.

Also, President Bush announcing he will be going to India and Pakistan in March.

Once again, we're standing by on Capitol Hill for the Senate Judiciary Committee to vote on the nomination of Samuel Alito as next Supreme Court justice. When that happens, we'll bring that to you live here on CNN.

Meanwhile, we rejoin our sister network, CNN International. (JOINED IN PROGRESS)

JIM CLANCY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: ... result of the earthquake in Pakistan last October.

Shaukat Aziz, for his part, weighing in and saying, yes, this is a multifaceted relationship, reminding U.S. businessmen they can invest and taking particular time to express thanks to the United States for the helicopters, for the mobile military hospitals that were given to Pakistan, along with all of the aid that flowed in from the United States at the greatest hour of need. But that's an hour of need that's going to continue in Pakistan for sometime to come with still some millions of people relatively homeless in all of this.

An important meeting. And as Shaukat Aziz said, the talks with the U.S. president not over yet -- Zain.

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Jim, now to efforts by the Bush administration in the fight against terrorism that at one time were top secret and now are under fire.

CLANCY: Europe's own investigator says European officials most likely knew about CIA moves to whisk terror suspects across their borders to alleged secret prisons.

VERJEE: And after a barrage of sometimes bipartisan criticism, the administration is trying to take the offensive, defending a program of eavesdropping on Americans.

CLANCY: Now, the head of the European investigation into alleged CIA secret prisons in Europe and other human rights violations says there is evidence the U.S. has been outsourcing the torture of terror suspects to other countries. In a brief interview, it was named to me that Egypt was one of the countries where they were going. He said it was highly unlikely some European governments knew about it.

European Political Editor Robin Oakley has more on that, about who knew what and when.


ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN EUROPEAN POLITICAL EDITOR (voice over): In an interim report, Mr. Marty told Europe's top human rights watchdog body, the Council of Europe, that there was a great deal of coherent, convergent evidence pointing to the outsourcing of torture by the CIA as part of the program of so-called extraordinary rendition flights across Europe.

DICK MARTY, COUNCIL OF EUROPE (through translator): There are people in Europe who were kidnapped, deprived of their liberty, transferred to a number of countries with no rights and no assistance.

OAKLEY: These, he insisted, were criminal acts and would have been so in the U.S., too.

MARTY (through translator): Other individuals taken in Europe have been rendered to countries where we know full well that they would be subjected to unacceptable treatment.

OAKLEY: A very different message to that from U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. In Europe in December, she insisted that renditions took terrorists out of action and saved lives. And she assured Europe's foreign ministers who demanded explanations that the U.S. never sent people to countries where they faced torture.

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: The United States does not engage in torture, it doesn't condone it, it doesn't expect its employees to engage in it.

OAKLEY: That was good enough for the ministers who have since kept silent on the subject. But it hasn't been good enough for Europe's human rights groups or parliamentarians.

KATHALLINE BUITENWEG, EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT: We've seen these same ministers being immediately pacified after one dinner with Condoleezza Rice without given any explanation about why we should suddenly trust that there's actually nothing going on.

OAKLEY: That's why a range of national parliaments and the European parliament itself are mounting their own investigations of extraordinary rendition. Like Mr. Marty, who admits he's found no evidence of any secret CIA prisons in Europe, they'll find facts hard to obtain that they share an instinct that something wrong has been going on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The judicial authorities would say we need evidence, but from a political institution, I would say that I can't imagine how all this could have happened without anybody being aware of what was going on.

OAKLEY (on camera): It isn't the U.S. or the CIA now who the are the target of all these investigations so much as European lawmakers, who many lawmakers believe turned a blind eye to what they knew was happening.

Robin Oakley, CNN, London.


VERJEE: On the domestic spying controversy, the Bush administration is on the offensive with a series of appearances by top officials. In the spotlight today, the U.S. attorney general, Alberto Gonzales, spoke to us just a short while ago. He said members of Congress were aware of the National Security Agency program and he asserted Congress actually approved it when it authorized military force against terrorism.


ALBERTO GONZALES, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: It's easy to say, you know, we didn't intend to authorize this kind of activity. But I would challenge anyone who is saying that to look at the analysis of the Supreme Court in the Hamdi decision, regarding their interpretation of the authorization to use military force and what -- and what they say that authorization allows a president to do, which is to engage in all activities that are fundamental incidental to waging war, and engaging in electronic surveillance of the enemy is a fundamental incident of waging war.


VERJEE: But many Democrats and some Republicans disagree, saying the NSA's activities did not fall under the congressional authorization. Gonzales was making some of the same points during a speech at Georgetown University when protesters interrupted him. They unfurled a sign reading, "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither."

CLANCY: The debate over President Bush's domestic spying program the subject of our question this day.

VERJEE: We're asking you this: Was the Bush administration right or wrong to spy on Americans without court orders?

E-mail us your thoughts, And we're going to read some of them here a little bit later on the air.

To the Middle East now and an important moment for Palestinians. They're getting ready to vote in their first parliamentary elections in 10 years. But despite a pledge by militant groups to hold their fire during the vote, gunmen linked to the Fatah ruling party killed a party leader in election-related violence.

Many Palestinians just don't like what's happening. They hit the streets in the West Bank to protest the spread of chaos and violence. Crowds chanted anti-corruption slogans and called for law and order.

CLANCY: Meantime, Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas urged voters to turn out en masse on Wednesday. That's when they're to go to the polls. His ruling Fatah party facing unprecedented challenges pressures from the Palestinian militant group Hamas.

Ben Wedeman joins us now live from Gaza. He has more on the story -- Ben.


Well, the final preparations are being made for this vote. The ballot boxes have been distributed around the West Bank and Gaza.

It's expected that around 1.3 million Palestinians are going to go to the polls tomorrow. They open at 7:00 a.m. and close at 7:00 p.m.

These are the second legislative elections in the Palestinian area since the establishment of the Palestinian Authority in 1994. What is of course significant this time, as you mentioned, Jim, is that Hamas, the militant Islamic organization, is participating. It is posing a very serious challenge to the mainstream Fatah faction founded by the late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. Now, Hamas is capitalizing on widespread Palestinian dissatisfaction with what is seen as corruption within the authority and the Fatah movement, the authority's inability to manage the affairs of the Palestinians, and also widespread disorder. Certainly here in Gaza there have been a variety of problem, kidnappings, street battles between warring factions, family feuds that have left dozens of people dead.

So really, Hamas is playing on those fears and unhappiness -- Jim.

CLANCY: The question is, is Hamas confronting, really, the president, Mahmoud Abbas, on the issue? He's called for them all to put away their arms for the duration of this vote. We had a shooting on the West Bank where a leader of Fatah who protested against some Hamas members tearing down posters, campaign posters, was himself shot to death.

WEDEMAN: Well, this has been a perennial problem in the Palestinian areas, Jim. And, in fact, one of the main perpetrators of a lot of this disorder is, in fact, members of Mr. Abbas' Fatah faction.

Certainly here in Gaza it's been a real problem. And the disorder doesn't come from Hamas, by and large. It's from disgruntled members of the Palestinian security services, of the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, which is the armed wing of the Fatah faction who have really been disrupting ordinary life here.

So, in a sense, the real problem lies within Fatah itself and not necessarily with Hamas when it comes to internal Palestinian violence and disorder.

CLANCY: All right. Ben Wedeman, thank you very much for that.

Ben Wedeman one of our correspondents that are going to be covering these elections wall to wall on Wednesday.

Thanks, Ben.

VERJEE: In an address to the nation scheduled for this hour, Israel's acting prime minister, Ehud Olmert, is expected to talk about the prospect of Hamas coming to power.

Guy Raz join us now with more on that -- Guy.

GUY RAZ, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Zain, Israelis will be watching these elections very closely, and for one simple reason, Hamas.

Now, few Israelis differentiate between the political activities of Hamas and the violent activities of the group, associating Hamas with a decade-long campaign of bloody bombings inside the country.

Now, for the Israeli government, a possible Hamas victory in tomorrow's Palestinian elections is problematic, so long as the group, at least formerly, is still committed to the destruction of Israel.

Now, if Hamas does, indeed, emerge victorious in these elections tomorrow, well, negotiations between the Israelis and the Palestinian Authority are likely to be put on hold for the foreseeable future in large part because neither Israel, nor the Palestinian -- or neither Israel nor Hamas, rather, prefer to talk to the other party. But if Hamas emerges as a strong party in the upcoming Palestinian government, perhaps laying claim to two or three cabinet seats, well, Israel is likely able to swallow that possibility, albeit we're not likely to see any direct contacts between Israeli officials and potential Hamas cabinet ministers -- Zain.

VERJEE: Guy Raz, reporting to us from Jerusalem.

We're going to have reporters everywhere across the region tomorrow as we cover the Palestinian elections here on CNN.

And also, we want to ask one of our next guests coming up what a Hamas victory would mean for the peace process. We're going to put that to the United Nations' top envoy to the region. That's coming up in just a few minutes -- Jim.

CLANCY: All right.

Elsewhere in the Middle East, the war crimes trial of Saddam Hussein postponed again. This time until Sunday. The court says it's because of a number of witnesses were not able to attend.

The postponement just the latest in a string of delays. It comes after a month-long recess and several hours of waiting on Tuesday.

We're going to take a break.

Up next, we're going to take a closer look at the Palestinian's crucial vote.

VERJEE: What's at stake and how will it go amid a climate of violence? We're going to talk to the U.N.'s envoy to the region.

CLANCY: And another election with big implications for the world. Canada veers rightward. We'll explain why.



RICE: If we, indeed, do want a path to peace between Israel and the Palestinian people, it is going to have to be one in which Palestinians and any Palestinian government is committed to a peaceful path.


VERJEE: U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice talking about the Middle East peace proceprocess in light of the upcoming Palestinian parliamentary elections. Joining us now to discuss this is Alvaro De Soto, the U.N. Middle East special envoy.

Thanks for being with us.

Opinion polls suggest that there could be a victory for Hamas here. If that is the case, how do you think it will affect the peace process?

ALVARO DE SOTO, U.N. MIDDLE EAST ENVOY: Well, it depends on Hamas, essentially. We hope that Hamas' participation in the elections and that her election to the legislature signifies an acceptance of the rules of the game. Meaning the democratic rule. And though we hope that they will act in consonance with the prevailing Palestinian opinion, which is willingness to compromise and the acceptance of Israel's right to exist and...

KAGAN: And we go live now to Capitol Hill. The vote taking place on Samuel Alito in the Senate Judiciary Committee.








LEAHY: As Mr. Biden explained, he's required to be overseas monitoring an election, part of our government, and I will vote his proxy, no.













UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Chairman, the votes are 10 yeas, eight nays.

SPECTER: The committee approves the nomination of Judge Alito for floor action, and we will report the nomination to the floor.

That concludes our meeting.

KAGAN: Done very quickly, right along party lines, as expected, 10-8. The 10 Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee voting in favor of the nomination of Samuel Alito to be the next Supreme Court justice. Eight democrats voting no.

It will move on to the full Senate.

With more on that, let's go to our congressional correspondent, Ed Henry, who is watching the developments -- Ed.


That's right, and we're expecting a party line vote on the Senate floor as well. That debate does start tomorrow.

The vote could come as early as the end of this week or it could hold over the weekend. But even Democrats acknowledge the latest it would occur would be Monday or Tuesday. And, in fact, Judge Alito could be sworn in as Justice Alito just in time for President Bush's State of the Union Address on Tuesday night -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Ed, thank you.

And our legal correspondent -- legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, standing by as well.

Jeff, if all proceeds as it appears it is, some of the first issues that Samuel Alito will face as a Supreme Court justice?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Very likely to get a case on partial-birth abortion. Not a direct challenge to Roe v. Wade, but certainly an important issue that the courts last took up in 2000. It's going to be a very interesting case to know how judge -- Chief Justice Roberts feels on this issue -- once he's a Supreme Court justice. Same thing with Samuel Alito.

Texas, the redistricting of Texas, a very important case about civil rights, about voting rights, about the political composition of the United States Congress.

So, as always with the Supreme Court, a lot of hot issues will be on his lap very quickly. KAGAN: OK. You stay with us.

Ed, you as well.

Let's go ahead and re-rack the tape of what happened just a few minutes ago as the Senate Judiciary Committee voted on the nomination of Samuel Alito.


SPECTER: ... placed in the record.

The clerk will call the roll.
























LEAHY: As Mr. Biden explained, he's required to be overseas monitoring an election, part of our government, and I will vote his proxy, no.













UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Chairman, the votes are 10 yeas, eight nays.

SPECTER: The committee approves the nomination of Judge Alito for floor action, and we will report the nomination to the floor.

That concludes our meeting.


KAGAN: So once again, that happened just moments ago. The Senate Judiciary Committee voting along party lines. The 10 Republicans voting yes, they do support Samuel Alito to be the next Supreme Court justice. The eight Democrats on the committee saying, no, they don't.

So Ed, in terms of the politics that will be played here, the Democrats don't really have the numbers, it would appear at this point, to stop this.

HENRY: That's right. I mean, basically, it will be a party line vote just about on the Senate floor as well.

With Chief Justice John Roberts last year, there were 22 Senate Democrats that supported him. That's how he got such a wide bipartisan majority of 78 votes. With Judge Alito, so far it's only one Democrat, Ben Nelson of Nebraska, who has gone public with support.

We're expecting maybe one, two, three Democrats, more, at best, for Judge Alito. And the reason there, is Democratic leaders are pressuring -- they're pressuring their rank and file members very much. They really want a low number for Judge Alito to have a stark difference from Chief Justice John Roberts and make the charge that this was very much a polarizing nomination and it is a tainted victory for the White House.

Republicans up here saying, look, a victory is a victory. We'll take it. And if it's been polarized, it's because of the Democrats -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Real quickly to Jeffrey Toobin.

Any cases that will have to be reheard that were heard the first time with Sandra Day O'Connor, but now that there's a switch of justices they have to start over?

TOOBIN: Not that we know of yet. The court sometimes holds those over and we don't know whether they will be reargued.

But, you know, it's worth remembering, Judge Alito is 55 years old. Judge -- Chief Justice Roberts is 50. They are likely to be hearing cases into the 2030s.

So the day-to-day concerns that we have today about them could be long forgotten. They'll be dealing with issues that probably aren't even on our radar screen at this point.

KAGAN: And as we've seen in the past, really hard to tell how a man, a woman develops once they become a Supreme Court justice.

TOOBIN: But they do tend to live very long and healthy lives.

KAGAN: That they do. It's good for the health. A daily dose of court.

TOOBIN: Apparently so. I don't know.

KAGAN: Thank you.

Also healthy is our Bill Schneider, our senior political analyst.

Bill, what do you make out of the politics you're seeing unfold on Capitol Hill?

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, in the first place, this was not the same vote as Judge Roberts received from the Senate Judiciary Committee.

In the case of Roberts, which was back in September, he got the same 10 votes of support from all the Republicans on the committee, but Roberts got three Democrats voting for him. Russ Feingold of Wisconsin, Patrick Leahy of Vermont, and Herbert Kohl of Wisconsin all voted to confirm Judge Roberts. In this case, all of the eight Democrats, including Leahy, Feingold and Kohl, all voted against the confirmation of Judge Alito.

So already we're seeing a striking difference.

KAGAN: And what do you make out of that, more than politics? Is it the man, or they're just trying to make a statement that they're just not going to rubberstamp what President Bush wants?

SCHNEIDER: Well, there's some of both, I think.

In the case of Robert, his credentials were outstanding. Alito's are very strong as well. But I think there's some sense that Alito has not been as forthcoming about his views, he has a much, much longer paper trail.

He has more statements that trouble Democrats about abortion, about presidential power. I think they have simply more doubts about Judge Alito than they have about Roberts, if only because Judge Alito has a much, much longer record.

KAGAN: Bill Schneider, Ed Henry and Jeffrey Toobin, thank you, gentlemen.

Once again, the Senate Judiciary Committee by a vote of 10-8 approving the nomination of Judge Samuel Alito to be the next justice of the Supreme Court. A full vote with the full Senate coming either later this week or early next week.

More news after the break. I'm Daryn Kagan.


KAGAN: I'm Daryn Kagan at CNN Center in Atlanta. We'll have more of YOUR WORLD TODAY in just a few moments. Let's check on stories making headlines in the U.S.

You saw this happen live on CNN just a moment ago. A committee vote just happening on Judge Samuel Alito's Supreme Court nomination.

They split along party lines. The vote, 10-8. Republicans on the Judiciary Committee voting for Alito. They call him one of most qualified nominees ever. Supporters are hoping for a full Senate vote by the end of the week.

Eight Democrats voting no on that nomination.

And now for the latest on another developing story. Investigators are on the scene of a fiery small plane crash in Carlsbad, California.

It happened this morning while a plane was coming into McLellan- Palomar Airport, north of San Diego, this morning. Authorities say the plane skidded off the runway and hit a series of lights and a storage shed, and then it burst into flames. The FAA says all four people on board were killed. We don't have the victims' names yet, but we do know the plane was arriving from the Sun Valley, Idaho, area.

CNN will keep you posted on the story throughout the day.

In Maryland a 7-year-old girl is recovering from a gunshot wound that she sustained while at daycare. Police say an 8-year-old boy brought a gun to the facility in Germantown, Maryland, and that it went off accidentally. The bullet hit the girl in the arm but her injury isn't life-threatening.

Parents and neighbors were understandably shaken.


KARON WILLIAMS, NEIGHBOR: I'm not going to blame it on the neighborhood, because this is a really good neighborhood. And I've had no problems here. And like I said, I've had no problems in the daycare, but this -- you know, it concerns me a little bit to put my daughter back there.


KAGAN: And this from health news. Former president Gerald Ford is still in the hospital. He will spend an 11th day in the hospital for treatment of pneumonia. His chief of staff says the 92-year-old is not quite ready for release. She says the former president has, however, been getting out of bed, chatting and eating well.

And here's a story under the bizarre behavior file. Police in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, say a plane passenger is in jail, accused of biting another passenger, then jumping off the plane while it was on the airport tarmac. Police say that Troy Rigby resisted arrest and they had to use a stun gun to zap him. The bitten passenger spoke on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING" about the ordeal. He says the plane was delayed when the man complained of claustrophobia and said he need to get off the plane.


PAUL SIGLER, BITTEN BY AIRPLANE PASSENGER: Well I guess the captain depressurized the plane, then the man went nuts. He was kicking all the door. He beat the flight attendant up pretty well. I had grabbed him by the shoulder and by the shirt, his shirt ripped. A couple other passengers were holding his arm. I grabbed his head and I grabbed his neck and he started snapping at me with his teeth. He just said he wanted to get off.


KAGAN: Rigby now faces several charges, including criminal mischief, marijuana possession and aggravated battery.

Time to check in on weather across the U.S. Jacqui Jeras has that for us. (WEATHER REPORT)

KAGAN: All right, Jacqui, thank you. Be sure to join Kyra Phillips at the top of the hour. She will bring you news on LIVE FROM.

Meanwhile, YOUR WORLD TODAY continues after a quick break. I'm Daryn Kagan, I'll see you tomorrow morning.


CLANCY: Hello everyone and welcome back to YOUR WORLD TODAY, an hour of global news here on CNN International. I'm Jim Clancy.

VERJEE: And I'm Zain Verjee. Here are some of the top stories we're following. Last minute preparations are underway for Palestinian parliamentary elections on Wednesday. Ballot boxes were being brought to polling stations across Palestinian territories. Security forces were fanning out. Armed militant groups made a pledge to hold their fire during the vote. Despite the pledge, gunmen linked to the Fatah movement killed the Fatah party leader in election- related violence.

CLANCY: A European human rights investigator says there's evidence that the CIA outsourced torture to other countries and that some European governments knew about it. Swiss Senator Dick Marty, who heads an investigation by the Council of Europe, issued a preliminary report on Tuesday. But Marty says so far there's no concrete evidence the CIA operated secret prisons in Eastern Europe.

VERJEE: It's become a ritual before any summit attended by the world's political and business leaders. And so it goes in the Swiss ski resort of Davos. One of the pressing issues for European leaders and highlighted by recent unrest in several countries, is immigration. In the second part of our series called "Europe's Identity Crisis," Karl Penhaul takes a closer look at the problems in Spain.


KARL PENHAUL, CNN VIDEO CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The chatter of Arabic cuts through the gloom. Mustafa rushes me inside this hut, made of plastic, cardboard and wooden pallets.

He and his companions admit they're illegal immigrants. Over a cup of hot tea, he tells the tale of his search for paradise, how he illegally crossed from Morocco to Spain in a converted fishing boat called a patera.

MUSTAFA LAMNOIR, ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT (through translator): I came in a patera five times. Three times, the Spanish Marines caught me and sent me back and once the Moroccans. Once, the patera sank and we spent three days in the water. We got a hold of the patera and clung to it and waited to see what our fate would be. We thought we were dead.

PENHAUL: While Mustafa survived, he says 18 of the 28 people in the boat died. But when he washed ashore, he says, what he found wasn't paradise. In fact, he says, he's only worked sporadically since he arrived two months ago.

I wish him luck in his hunt for work the next day. As day breaks, you realize El Ejido is a town surrounded by a sea of plastic. Greenhouses stretch to the horizon. This is the salad bowl of Europe. Tomatoes, peppers, zucchinis, lettuce and cucumbers, about two million tons of produce a year and 25,000 hecters of greenhouses. It's one of the biggest areas of greenhouse anywhere in the world.

A magnet for illegal immigrants from Northern Africa like Mustafa and increasingly sub-Saharan Africa, too. The new day brings little fresh hope for Mustafa and his friends. They found no work. I find them listening to a cassette of Moroccan music, the sound of home.

It's lunchtime but they only have enough money for homemade bread that they'll then dip in oil and wash down with an cup of tea. Mustafa grows more bitter with each jobless day. In Morocco, he says, he could earn, at most about 300 Euros a month.

If he can find work here, he calculates, his paycheck could be three times that. But he's already spent 1,000 Euros on each of his five attempts to reach Europe. All the money he made from selling his small house near Marrakesh, now gone.

LAMNOIR: I want to have my family and build a house like everybody. I want to live well and sleep peacefully, but there's nothing here. If your life is going to be like that, why would you come or pay money? Because here we're dying little by little. Look where we sleep. Look where we eat.

PENHAUL: He and his built these shacks on rough ground between greenhouses. There are no bathrooms, no running water. This shack provides privacy for bucket showers.

LAMNOIR: Is that Europe?

PENHAUL: He must walk more than an hour to buy food. The encampment deliberately far enough from the nearest village so Spanish police won't search for them. These men know if they are discovered they'll be deported. They admit they have no passports, no Visas, and no residence permits. It's Catch 22, without a work contract from a local farmer, they can't get a work permit. With no work permit, it's tough to get a regular job.

In 2000, El Ejido and surrounding villages erupted in race riots between Moroccan residents and Spanish residents, after a Moroccan allegedly raped and killed a Spanish woman.

As part of the effort to ease tensions, farm owners promised improved working and living conditions for immigrants, though farm workers unions say there's been little change.

That's been no repeat of those riots, but Spanish police and the farm workers unions report violent attacks against immigrant workers have continued. Mohammed Tourabi crossed illegally into Spain in 2001, a year after the riots. He made a living picking salad in the greenhouses until a brutal attack in 2004 during the village fiesta.

MOHAMMED TOURABI, RACE ATTACK VICTIM (through translator): A group of Spanish lads came, and they began shouting "Arab, Arab, Arab," and then began beating me and my friend. Somebody hit me from behind and my leg was broken.

PENHAUL: He says he spent three weeks in hospital. He shows me the report about the attack in the local newspaper, and the photo of his leg in a cast. But Tourabi had suffered a bone disease since age three, and after the fracture, irreversible complications set in.

TOURABI (through translator): I have another X-ray and the doctor said it's better to amputate your leg, and if you don't, you'll die. I was crying. I was crying, and I didn't want to cut my leg off.

PENHAUL: Now he lives on handouts from other Moroccan workers. He hopes next year he may be able to begin receiving Spanish social security benefits.

TOURABI (through translator): Here, not everybody's the same -- some people are good and some are bad. It's like if somebody has a problem with a Moroccan, and they say all Moroccans are the same, but it's not true.

PENHAUL: A short drive from Mohammed's hut, Maria Hosefa (ph) Molina is cutting red peppers for market.

MARIA MOLINA, FARM OWNER (through translator): We always put these ones on top and the smaller ones underneath. That way, the crate looks better.

PENHAUL: She and her husband only have a few greenhouses. She says they don't envy Moroccans, but says she sees the hardships many endure.

MOLINA (through translator): I agree that immigrants can seasonally for those farmers who have a lot of land, but I also think they should give them dignified housing and a bathroom.

PENHAUL: But she believes the immigrants often have themselves to blame.

MOLINA (through translator): Last year there were about 300 nearby, and it was frightening. They would all bathe in the same water here, and they broke my van and threw a rock and broke the windshield. It was a disaster.

PENHAUL: Fierce competition and efforts by major supermarket chains to drive down prices mean farmers face fierce pressure to cut costs.

Economists say immigrants working for less than legal minimum wages can mean the difference between a farmer's loss and turning a slim profit.

Jose Garcia, head of the region's largest vegetable wholesale group, say immigrants are desperately need and must be legalized.

JOSE GARCIA, DIR., AGRUPAEJIDO (through translator): Because it is not human for that workforce to be illegal, neither for them, or the employer, because the workers don't have health coverage or unemployment if they are out of work. An employer running the risk of fine or even jail for contracting people illegally.

PENHAUL: It's not the legal niceties but the lure of money that draws immigrants from Northern Africa to Europe. A search for Mustafa to see if his luck has improved, there's no sign of him in his shack. I asked his friend, Oday (ph), for news.

He tells me Mustafa left that morning, bound for Italy.

I think back to the last thing Mustafa told me before he moved on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): It's unthinkable to go back to Morocco. Why would I do that? I have no money.

PENHAUL: For Mustafa, that illegal boat ride from Morocco was a one-way ticket.

Karl Penhaul, CNN, El Ejido, Spain.



CLANCY: For our viewers in the United States and around the world, welcome back to YOUR WORLD TODAY. Political storm clouds in sunny California this week. A right-wing political activist established a Web site, targeting what he says are radical professors at the University of California in Los Angeles, UCLA. Professors have howled a fowl. Andrew Jones' Web site names what he calls "Dirty 30," professors who criticize politicians like President George W. Bush, support affirmative action or anti-war activities.

Andrew Brown said he wouldn't come on our air and do debate one of the professors, but he told us earlier what he was trying to do.


ANDREW JONES, FMR. UCLA STUDENT: Well, what we're really trying to do is to bring things at UCLA back to a more respectful level as far as the political discourse, and that -- when I was a student and is still a problem. When I was a UCLA student and since then, I've been continuing to talk to UCLA students, that continues to be a problem as far as political discourse on campus.

CLANCY: Now to many, Andrew, it really looks like what you're trying to do is to smear people whose political views you don't agree with. JONES: And I certainly understand what that looks like to a certain number of people. To a lot of other people, it looks like it's about time we go ahead and expose these people who indoctrinate people in the classroom.


CLANCY: Expose people who indoctrinate others in the classroom. Let's bring in one of the professors that is on that list, the "Dirty 30," that was compiled by Mr. Jones.

This is Professor Mark Sawyer. He is a professor of political science at UCLA and the Center for African-American Studies. It's true, isn't it, there's an awful lot of liberal professors at UCLA?

PROF. MARK SAWYER, UCLA: There's some liberals; there's some conservatives. We're in the marketplace of ideas, and we need to have freedom to discuss a lot of controversial topics. That's the way we do our job the best.

CLANCY: But you don't have conservative professors leading students out of the classroom in anti-war protests, or protests against affirmative action rulings.

SAWYER: Yes, you do, actually. One of my colleagues has been very involved in anti-affirmative action, and I respect his ability to participate in that. It's part of the marketplace of ideas.

CLANCY: What do you think Jones is try to do here? He's had to retreat. He's lost some of his supporters. People have disavowed him. He had $100 reward there for students to turn you, the professors, in, take notes out of your class, make tape recordings. He's had to retreat on that one. What's he trying to do?

SAWYER: What Mr. Jones want to do is he wants to label people and cut off debate. The university needs to be a place where there's free debate, where all kinds of ideas, interesting, new, come to light. Some of the professors he attacks are some of the most decorated professors on campus. They're top-level in their fields and their the kinds of people that students need to hear from. And we need to do our job the best we can, and we need to be open and free when doing that.

CLANCY: This is a story that has garnered headline. It was in China People's Daily. It was in The Hindu Times in India, it's been in newspapers across Europe, about going after liberal professors. And it led me to ask a question. We got into a rather heated debate last night when I interviewed Mr. Jones. I want to play you out a part of this. Professor, I want you to listen to this.


CLANCY: Andrew, isn't this just a stunt, like the affirmative action bake sale, where you were selling cookies for 25 cents to minority black women, same cookies you charge one or two dollars to white students or Asian students, just a publicity stunt, for you to grandize yourself?

ANDREW JONES, FRM. UCLA STUDENT: That was pointing out the absurdity of affirmative action. You can certainly characterize it any way you want.

CLANCY: Isn't this to point out the absurdity, what you see as professors who are being paid state money, and they hold views that are different from yours?

JONES: No, it's to point out the fact the professors are being paid state money -- as you said, you make that point, which is very cogent, but they're presenting only one side of the classroom.


CLANCY: All right, the man who invented the Dirty Thirty. One side is that what is getting out at UCLA?

SAWYER: No, my lectures are interesting and provocative. I teach Clarence Thomas as well as Huey Newton. I go through a range of things. What Mr. Jones wants to do is get a lot of attention. I was initially amused by the profile. Once it gets all the way to the news and connects with people who want to limit academic freedom, it then becomes very serious.

We don't need to label people on campus. We just need to be a place where a free marketplace of ideas.

CLANCY: Professor Mark Sawyer, wants to keep the university a marketplace of free ideas. I want to thank you very much for coming here.

SAWYER: Thank you, Jim.

CLANCY: Up next, your thoughts on the spying scandal in the United States.

CLANCY: It's An important one. We've been asking this. Was the Bush administration right or wrong to spy on Americans without the formality of court orders? We'll see what you think next.


VERJEE: It's time now to check our inbox. We like doing that. We've been asking about the debate over President Bush's domestic spying program.

CLANCY: We got some zingers. Our question, was the Bush administration right or wrong to spy on Americans without court orders.

VERJEE: Here's how some of your replied. Paul in Beirut says, "President Bush was not only wrong but he broke the law and he should be impeached."

All right, another one came in, an anonymous viewer writing this: "The president has the right to conduct surveillance on suspected terrorists. The media makes it seem the government is eavesdropping on everyday, boring conversations."

VERJEE: Paul writes this from Romania: "The administration is listening to limited calls with suspected al Qaeda or other terrorist- related sources. Why should that cause concern to anyone who isn't guilty?

CLANCY: And finally, Dorian from Texas weighs in with this: "He acted unconstitutionally and illegally and he gives Americans a false choice that we have to choose between keeping our country safe and preserving our liberties.

Thanks to everybody who wrote in. We had some zingers today.

VERJEE: We always want to hear from you. Send us your e-mails at

CLANCY: We have a winner, by the way.

VERJEE: We do, 17 girls took part but only one of them took home the crown.

CLANCY: Only one of them could. The event, Miss Piranda. A beauty competition electing Romania's most beautiful gypsy girl.

VERJEE: Beauty isn't enough. The winner must also be the best at belly dancing.

CLANCY: A jury of local gypsy singers elected 18-year-old Elena Gregoreg (ph) as the new Miss Piranda.

VERJEE: You might say the swimsuit and talent competition there really was rolled into one, right, Jim?

CLANCY: Oh, excuse me, I was distracted. That has to be our report for today.

VERJEE: Yep, that's the report for the day. I'm Zain Verjee.

CLANCY: I'm Jim Clancy.



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