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CNN LARRY KING LIVE
A New Tape From Al Qaeda Surfaces as Does a New Tape of Kidnapped Jounalist Jill Carroll; ABC News Anchorman Bob Woodruff and His Cameraman Seriously Wounded Yesterday by a Roadside Bomb in Iraq
Aired January 30, 2006 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Tonight, ABC News anchorman Bob Woodruff and his cameraman seriously wounded yesterday by a roadside bomb in Iraq. We'll get the latest on their condition.
Plus, disturbing new video of kidnapped journalist Jill Carroll in tears shown on Al-Jazeera TV.
With us friends and colleagues of Bob Woodruff and Jill Carroll, including ABC News White House Correspondent Martha Raddatz, CBS Evening News interim anchor Bob Schieffer, CBS News and "60 Minutes" correspondent Lara Logan, she's reported extensive from Iraq and Afghanistan; CNN's Christiane Amanpour, most recently in Iraq last month; veteran war correspondent Peter Arnett and more.
They're all next on LARRY KING LIVE.
Good evening. First tonight the latest on ABC News anchor Bob Woodruff and cameraman Doug Vogt, who were badly hurt in Iraq. The two underwent surgery in Iraq and were then airlifted to Germany.
Woodruff, 44, is the father of four. He was close friends with David Bloom, the NBC anchor who died of an apparent blood clot while traveling in Iraq in April of 2003.
Vogt, 46, is the three-time Emmy Award-winning cameraman from Canada.
Joining us in Washington is Martha Raddatz, the ABC News White House Correspondent. She has been embedded with troops in Iraq and she broke the news of Bob's injury yesterday. How did you learn of it?
MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC NEWS WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I got a call from our Baghdad bureau from our senior producer Kate Felson (ph) over there who had heard from the 4th Infantry Division, who Bob and Doug were traveling with that they had been injured.
So, she called me. It was about five o'clock yesterday morning and asked me if I could find more information. I was the ABC national security correspondent for many years and covered the Pentagon for 12 years, so I have a lot of contacts in the military. So, I started working on that and finding out whatever I could about Doug and Bob's condition.
KING: What happened? RADDATZ: They were traveling in a convoy of eight vehicles. There were six U.S. humvees, up-armored humvees and there were two Iraqi vehicles, two Iraqi armored vehicles.
Bob and Doug and there were two other members of the crew, a producer and a sound man, had all been traveling in the U.S. up-armored humvees. They decided after a few miles and a couple of checkpoints that they wanted to move up into the Iraqi armored vehicle to get the perspective of the Iraqis.
So, Bob and Doug and the other two moved up there. Bob and Doug were up in the hatch. They were exposed in the back and that's when the vehicle hit an improvised explosive device.
The people I've talked to said that convoy had -- had jammers in it. It's called the warlock system, which would have detected or set off anything with a wireless signal that would set off that bomb, so they believe this bomb was actually wired probably underground and detonated remotely through that wire instead of wirelessly.
So, when it hit that Bob and Doug were exposed in the back. There was an Iraqi soldier who was in a front hatch. He was also injured but no life-threatening injuries. I think his hand was badly injured and Bob and Doug in the back.
They immediately came under fire after that which is common in Iraq. They came under fire from three different directions. The Iraqi soldiers spread out I am told. The Americans were then able to give Bob and Doug medical care.
They got a Medevac (ph) helicopter there very, very quickly. Bob and Doug were back in the Green Zone about 20, 25 miles away within 37 minutes and inside that hospital.
KING: And we'll check with the colonel in charge there of that hospital with the condition. They are going to live is that correct?
RADDATZ: They -- they -- the prognosis for that looks very good, Larry. In fact, the good news is they are expected to be back in the United States tomorrow night at Bethesda Naval Hospital at the brain injury center there. They treat a lot of Marines there. I've been there many times. It is an excellent phenomenal facility, so we're very happy Doug and Bob will be back there.
KING: That's great news. Now there are rumors, as there always will be in cases like this, about disfigurement. What do you know?
RADDATZ: I'm not going to go beyond anything that ABC News has released but I don't think that is the case here. I think what I would describe as the head injuries are -- are similar to impact injuries or similar to blunt trauma injuries, much more so than the shrapnel issue. They certainly got some shrapnel wounds but those were not life-threatening.
The problem here is brain swelling and, again, it's very similar to an impact injury and they've got to watch the brain swelling for the next few days but I don't think there is any disfigurement here.
KING: We'll be asking this of our other guests. We have to ask it of you. Why would you do this? Why would -- you don't have to. No journalist has to go into a battle scene. And, in Iraq, 61, 61 have been killed. Why do you go?
RADDATZ: I'm sure your other guests are going to say the same thing, Larry, and we all think about this a lot. I could have covered this war from the Pentagon. I was the Pentagon correspondent, the national security correspondent. We have more than 135,000 U.S. troops in Iraq right now.
It is so important for me to go over there and cover what they do and you cannot do that from the Pentagon. I feel very strongly that you have to go over there. Bob felt that way. Elizabeth Vargas feels that way. She was over there too.
I know some people are saying why did you send an anchor over there? A year ago today I was in Iraq with Peter Jennings and the reason Peter Jennings was a marvelous anchor and all the network anchors today is because they have vast experience.
That is not a job where you sit at a table every day and read scripts. You have to be there. You have to get the depth. And, Bob wants that and Elizabeth wants that and they are willing to go over there and take risks, mitigate that risk with body armor in some ways that they can but to do that to understand what's happening around the world.
KING: Well said, thanks Martha.
RADDATZ: Thank you.
KING: Martha Raddatz informing us that both men will be home tomorrow night at Bethesda Naval Center.
Let's go on the phone to Colonel Bryan Gamble, commander of the Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in Germany. What can you tell us about the men's condition, colonel?
COL. W. BRYAN GAMBLE, CMDR., LANDSTUHL, GERMANY HOSPITAL (by telephone): Good evening, Larry. Right now what I can tell you is as has been described they were very seriously injured yesterday.
They arrived to us at about 8:30 yesterday morning German time. They were worked up, reassessed and treated by our trauma and critical care team. They've been stable throughout and when I last checked a few minutes ago they are continuing to have a stable night.
KING: What was the extent of the surgery?
GAMBLE: Sir, due to privacy issues I really can't go into that level of detail.
KING: But they are going to live?
GAMBLE: As of right now, sir, that's how it appears. KING: OK, now Martha just told us that they will be -- they'll be back in the United States at Bethesda Naval Center tomorrow night. What time will they fly out?
GAMBLE: Depending upon little nuances with the aircraft and scheduling and so on, on all the other patients that are going to go on the flight, they'll probably fly sometime this morning German time between 9:00 to 12:00 roughly.
KING: And there's no danger in them flying all that way?
GAMBLE: Sir, we used what's called the critical care air transportable teams, which in this war has really been one of the great strides in medical care there intensive care teams that will take critically injured patients on the aircraft flights to get them to the next level of care fairly expeditiously from the time of wounding.
In this conflict folks come to us from battlefield up here at Landstuhl, Germany at the regional medical center sometimes within 24 hours of being wounded and back to the United States usually within 48 to 72 hours, so these teams have really made a great impact in saving lives.
KING: Do you think body armor saved their lives, colonel?
GAMBLE: From what I understand, sir, they were wearing it from what I'm told and in my opinion it probably did.
KING: Thank you, colonel, Colonel Bryan Gamble, Commander of the Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in Germany.
And, again, both men will be flying back to the United States tomorrow.
As we go to break and then meet our panel, here's David Westin, President of ABC News.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID WESTIN, PRESIDENT, ABC NEWS: I do want to say it's not just assigning the reporter or the cameraman. It's assigning the whole family and the strength of Lee and Vivian and the children and the extended family has been extraordinary these last 24 hours. I mean it's really a testament to these people because they're all assigned just the way Bob and Doug were.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Let's meet our panel. In Washington, Bob Schieffer, the interim anchor of "CBS Evening News," who abandoned by the way the usual "Face the Nation" commentary yesterday to wish Woodruff and Vogt the best.
Peter Arnett is in New York, the veteran war correspondent, earned a Pulitzer for his reporting in Vietnam and formerly with CNN.
In New York is Lara Logan, CBS News correspondent, "60 Minutes" correspondent, has reported extensively from Iraq, Afghanistan and other war zones.
In London is Christiane Amanpour who has been everywhere, CNN's Chief International Correspondent.
And, in Baghdad is Michael Holmes, CNN International Anchor and Correspondent.
Bob Schieffer, how well do you know Bob Woodruff and what do you make of this?
BOB SCHIEFFER, "CBS EVENING NEWS" INTERIN ANCHOR: Well, I don't know Bob very well. I saw him on the shuttle about, oh I guess it was about a month ago coming back from New York to Washington. He was coming down the aisle and I said to him, I said "Bob, you going to get that job" and he said "Are you going to get that job"? And we had a couple of laughs together. He's a very nice fellow.
You know, Larry, he sort of got his taste for journalism, he was a lawyer who spoke Chinese and he was working for a law firm, an American law firm in Beijing when Tiananmen Square happened and Dan Rather hired him to be his translator during that crisis.
After that he decided what he wanted to do was be a reporter. He stopped his law practice, came back to this country, went to a small town and learned his craft and then worked his way back up. He's a remarkable young fellow and I tell you I have nothing but admiration for him, for his bravery and for the example he was setting.
You know, here's a guy that's going to be the anchor of a big news organization. He didn't quite feel right sending people out to Iraq unless he had been willing to do that himself and that's what he was doing.
KING: Peter Arnett, 61 journalists have died, been killed in Iraq. What do you make of that? I think it's the highest figure ever for journalists to have been killed in a war. And, what do you make of Woodruff and the cameraman Mr. Vogt?
PETER ARNETT, VIETNAM WAR CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Larry, I think Vietnam had a similar number of dead, as did Bosnia. You know the model for certainly my generation of reporters was Ed Murrow's coverage of the London blitz from the rooftops of that city and Ernie Pyle, who died in the Pacific in a sniper incident.
You cover wars. You die. But really in a democracy such as ours the mainstream media has a major job to get out and see what's going on. Otherwise, what would we have to choose from, what our government tells us and today what Al-Jazeera tells us? We have to be there with an independent voice to do it as well as we can and I think Bob Woodruff knew that as do the journalists in Baghdad today.
KING: Now, Lara, when you see something like this doesn't that give you pause over a call that might come tomorrow to go back?
LARA LOGAN, CBS NEWS "60 MINUTES" CORRESPONDENT: Not even for a moment. It really doesn't, Larry. It just makes me more determined, more resolved to go back. And you know one thing that's very interesting of those more 60 journalists killed in Iraq so far, just over 40 of those have been Iraqi journalists.
And it's very easy to forget about them but we rely increasingly on them. We rely on their local knowledge. We rely on them to go to areas that we can't go to and they've really paid the heaviest price in this war.
So and I think that, you know, people like Bob would want those people remembered at this time. They're fighting for the same things that we're fighting for. They believe in the same things that we do in being that record of history in any way that you can trying to make people care and make sure that no one forgets.
KING: Christiane, have you been in that kind of vehicle that these two men were in?
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I have been with the Iraqi Army. I'm trying to visualize the kind of vehicle that they were in on Sunday. I've been with the Iraqi Army in a completely unarmored vehicle that looks more like a basic truck.
And, it's really tough when you go out and do that and for sure every time I go out with either the U.S. or the Iraqi Army I am very conscious that this is a potentially life-threatening exercise and, you know, you basically pray from the minute you go out to the minute you come back and you thank God when you've come back.
And, I cannot tell you how awful I feel for Bob and Doug and for their families, their wives, their children who have to put up with them going away and waiting for them just like our families do when we come back.
But, as Peter Arnett said, and I think that the others have said, that number one it's our responsibility. Number two, if we don't do it, who does it? We have had so -- we have to have an independent eye on these conflicts. The war in Iraq has basically turned out to be a disaster and journalists have paid for it, paid for the privilege of witnessing and reporting that and so have many, many other people who have been there.
And I think that's terribly, terribly difficult for us and unfortunately for some reason, which I can't fathom, the kind of awful thing that's going on there now on a daily basis has almost become humdrum. So, when something happens to people that we identify, like Bob and like Doug, we wake up again and realize that, no, this is not acceptable what's going on there and it's a terrible situation.
KING: Well said. Michael Holmes, do you know the type of vehicle they were in? Have you ridden in one?
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, like Christiane, I'm not sure exactly what type of vehicle this is. I got a rough idea but I haven't seen it specifically. I've ridden with the Iraqis. Well I've been on foot patrol with them in fact through some pretty dodgy areas so I know exactly what Christiane is saying.
It is a feeling. In fact the pictures you're looking at there was a patrol last time I was here with the Iraqi military. You do feel at risk. I think the difference in this war is in many ways that there isn't a front line. This is a war that is all around us and the minute we drive out to go to an interview you're in the middle of it. You don't necessarily have to be with the military.
The day that Bob and Doug were wounded there were five car bombs in this city killing about a dozen people so it's fairly ubiquitous. The other big difference, of course, is that this is one of the first conflicts where we're not just seen as observers. We are seen as legitimate targets by the insurgency -- Larry.
KING: We're going to take a break and talk with two close friends of Jill Carroll, who has come back into the news today and then come back for the remaining half hour of the show with our panel. So, we'll return with Bob and Peter and Lara and Christiane and Michael at the bottom of the hour. We're going to spend a few minutes talking about Jill Carroll. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good evening. We begin tonight with the aftermath of violence in Iraq and this time the story is one we are feeling personally at ABC News because it involves two of our ABC colleagues, my co-anchor Bob Woodruff and our cameraman Doug Vogt. They are showing signs of improvement after suffering serious head injuries in a roadside bombing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: We'll be back with our panel in a little while.
Another American journalist making news in Iraq tonight, today Al- Jazeera aired new videotape showing abducted U.S. journalist Jill Carroll. Jill was kidnapped in Baghdad on January 7th. The gunmen who seized her also killed her translator.
She was previously seen in a video broadcast by Al-Jazeera on January 17th. Her kidnappers had threatened to kill her within 72 hours unless the U.S. military freed all female prisoners in Iraq.
Joining us for reaction is Natasha Tynes, a good friend and former journalistic colleague. In fact, she was part of her wedding.
And Rajiv Chandrasekaran. He has known Jill Carroll for a long time. He's assistant managing editor for continuing news -- continuous news and the former Baghdad bureau chief of "The Washington Post."
What do you make of the latest video, Natasha? NATASHA TYNES, JOURNALIST, CLOSE FRIEND OF JILL CARROLL: Well, frankly I was shocked and traumatized mostly because I was expecting to hear the good news soon, especially after the Iraqi police released the female detainees in Iraq.
So, I was shocked. I was not expecting to see yet another video, especially that part of the kidnappers' demands have been met, either directly or indirectly. So I was, I mean I was expecting to hear that she would be released soon.
KING: Rajiv, why do you think they let the 72 hours go by?
CHANDRASEKARAN: Well, they clearly were hoping to get those female detainees released. Now some of them have been released. There are still some additional ones in custody. I think that they are trying to exact the maximum bargaining leverage they can in this case.
And it's really unfortunate, you know, dealing with the U.S. government that is holding some of these females in custody still and a clear policy from the U.S. government that they will negotiate with kidnappers here.
But nevertheless I think these hostage takers have felt emboldened by what has happened and are simply trying to get more. They've gotten greedy here unfortunately.
KING: Natasha, she's wearing a white head scarf in that new video.
KING: Do you see any significance in that?
TYNES: Well, I'm not really sure but probably I think maybe it was put there to make the video more dramatic somehow because the first video that we saw she looked more composed and she was wearing probably her normal clothes.
So, I think it was part of making the second video more dramatic and making especially the American public feel sorry for her. This is what kidnappers actually ask in the video that was aired on Al- Jazeera.
KING: Because Rajiv she sure looks very unhappy.
CHANDRASEKARAN: Certainly and--
KING: More so than the last time.
CHANDRASEKARAN: Obviously and, you know, she's been in captivity now for so many days, taken on January 7th. This is, you know, obviously an incredibly horrific ordeal for her, you know. God knows where she's being held but it can't be in very pleasant conditions, as we've heard from other guests on earlier shows on your program, Larry, who have been held hostage in Iraq, colleagues of mine in Iraq.
It is incredible privation of the stress she is under and you really see that coming through on the tape that we've seen, just the awful conditions, the uncertainty. I mean it all seems to be expressed there on Jill's face.
KING: As you know her, Natasha, how good are her coping devices?
TYNES: Well, I mean Jill, she's very smart and she knew what she was doing when she went to Iraq, so we're all hopeful that she's going to get through this and that she'll be able probably to talk with her kidnappers and get her way out of this ordeal. So, I'm still definitely very hopeful.
KING: Are you hopeful, Rajiv?
CHANDRASEKARAN: I am. I really do continue to be very optimistic here. I mean Jill is a smart, resourceful, courageous woman. I do feel that she is -- she's conveying her feelings, her knowledge of Iraq, her commitment to the story to her captors.
And that's what's propelling me through this knowing that she's a woman who has some command of the Arabic language, who has such an overriding commitment to the story and I have to feel that that's going to be the strongest message.
I think that having clerics, politicians and others in Iraq lobby for her release, having Islamic-American groups, having her editors, her family members that's all very important but I think Jill is going to be the most potent force for her release as they, as her captors understand who she really is and understand that they've chosen the wrong woman here.
KING: Thank you both very much.
We'll take a break and come back with our panel.
Tomorrow night is the State of the Union address and so this program has been bumped by the president of the United States. Hey, it happens. We will be on at 9:00 p.m. Pacific tomorrow night with a full panel and your phone calls.
We'll be right back with this panel. Don't go away.
KING: We're back with our panel and we'll get them discussing about Jill Carroll and more about Bob Woodruff.
But first, Bob Schieffer, what do you make of this three and a half minute video aired on Al-Jazeera?
KING: We are back with our panel, and we will get them discussing about Jill Carroll and more about Bob Woodruff.
But first, Bob Schieffer, what do you make of this three and a half minute video they had on al Jazeera from al-Zawahri proving that he is not dead. He was not killed in that January 13th attack, which we pretty much knew. And, again, attacking the United States. He is second to Osama bin Laden. What do you make of this?
SCHIEFFER: Well, I think basically he was just saying, look, here I am, you missed. And I think he was in a sense thumbing his nose at the president of the United States.
I do not think the timing was coincidental. You can't find very many people in the United States government anyway who think that it was. And I think it was simply to say you tried to get me and you didn't.
And, you know, the fact that he says it on the eve of the State of the Union message I think is something we should take very seriously.
KING: Peter, do you see any light at the end of this tunnel?
ARNETT: You mean the Iraqi tunnel?
KING: The whole Iraq thing, yes.
ARNETT: Well, you know, we used to say in Vietnam, Larry, there has to be an end of all of this. One of the big differences of course was that the Viet Cong and the North Vietnamese were a political party that had support from the Soviet block.
You could negotiate with the Vietnamese, and that is what the U.S. eventually did. And it led to the withdrawal of American troops from Vietnam. And now we have got adequate relations with the Vietnamese.
We are still to discover within the insurgency, which is as powerful as it has ever been, a negotiating group. How do you get to those who are basically behind the insurgency?
Possibly win them over into some kind of political arrangement that tied in with bringing the factions with the Kurds and the Sunnis and the Shiites together to form some kind of national unity government that will help bring political stability.
One would hope that this will happen this year or the next and allow the U.S. to start moving out. On the face of it though, you know, there are still a lot of uncertainties in Iraq unfortunately.
KING: Lara, with the Jill Carrolls and the Bob Woodruffs, do you see any hope? I mean, is this just more of the same?
LOGAN: No, it's not more of the same, Larry. You know, I mean, one of the things I think that you try and do as a journalist when you are in a place like Iraq is not to speak for the Iraqi people as a whole, to remember that there are huge differences, that if you go into the south of Iraq you can speak to a lot of people who are very hopeful about the future.
They have more power and more freedom than they ever have had in Iraq. And yet, if you speak to the very vocal and very significant Sunni population even though they are minority, you speak to people who have a sense that they have no stake in their country anymore, no stake in the current government and everything to fight for and nothing to lose.
And what we are really seeing playing out right now is whether the Shiites and the Kurds together are going to let the Sunnis have a significant say in the government that they didn't really earn in this last election.
But, you know, everybody knows that you can't have a realistic solution in Iraq without involving the Sunnis. And I think we are in a perilous time at the moment. There is no doubt that Iraq is more and more and more dangerous. Not just for U.S. soldiers but for the Iraqi people and the Iraqi security forces.
And this is a critical time as much as there ever has been. This is really a critical moment.
KING: Christiane, are you optimistic for Jill Carroll?
AMANPOUR: Well, you know, looking at that heartbreaking video tape of her, I mean, it's really heart wrenching. The first video tape was more composed as her friends have said.
And here in the second one, you know, after being held for weeks she is crying and she is desperate. And who can imagine what is going through her head. I mean, obviously it is the most awful situation for anybody to be in. I mean, the most awful.
And it is sad because she has devoted her life to understanding the Iraqis. She dresses a lot like them when she is there. She goes out and about. She is not one of these mega-closeted, mega-guarded, you know, network correspondents like we are. And she has tried to do her best to understand the situation.
So hopefully, hopefully, hopefully, she will be released. I mean, you know, what else can we hope for? And certainly her family are hoping for that as well. But I just think it is so sad. I mean, by an indicator Iraq is a black hole.
Yes, they have had elections. What kind of a government are they going to come up with. Will it be a national unity government? Or will it be the one that sows the seeds of civil war?
Yes, the U.S. has promise reconstruction, but the United States inspector general for reconstruction is about to come out with a report that is saying that it is just not going apace and that it is difficult to see, according to this report, how they are ever going to get what they promised done.
Which means, according to a new poll that is coming out today, that most of the Iraqi people are now losing hope that the promised reconstruction is going to happen and that the quality of their lives is going to increase. This is a big drama because hope is the only thing they have in the middle of this spiralling security disaster. And by any indication whether you take the number of journalists killed or wounded, whether you take the number of American soldiers killed or wounded, whether you take the number of Iraqi soldiers killed and wounded, contractors, people working there, it just gets worse and worse.
KING: Michael, how are they able to seemingly get all of this time to get stuff to al Jazeera? Does al Jazeera have little outposts on every street or are they like "USA TODAY?"
HOLMES: Well, in a way they do, Larry. I think that is how they are getting it. They have stringers all over the place. Of course this is an Arabic language network, and this is their turf in a way. And they do have connections all over the place. Videos make their way to the media in different ways.
How they get this they don't say, but I have been when a video has arrived in our bureau just completely unannounced. This was a couple of years ago. And so we just don't know how they are getting it.
I think the panelists made some great points about the future of this country. It is going to depend an awful lot on the inclusiveness of the Sunnis, but also when it comes to the insurgency we have got to remember this is not a coordinated, unified insurgency.
It's a disparate group of people, some Iraqi, some not Iraq. And is already being signed in effect of the Iraqi insurgents fighting against al Qaeda insurgency in some parts of Iraq because they have different ideas of how this should go. So not only is the political future uncertain, the insurgents aren't unified in anyway at the moment.
KING: We'll take a break and come back we'll include your phone calls. As we go to break, here is Lara Logan reporting from the war zone.
LOGAN (voice over): The terrain forced the vehicles back onto the road. We followed behind. That's when we hit the mine. The impact blasted us into the air knocking out our camera and flipping the humvee. We scrambled for cover.
(on-camera): The sound that you are hearing now is a machine gun being fired from the vehicles at the front of the patrol. The racket is coming from the humvees behind us, which are firing grenades launched on vehicles.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR (voice-over): As they prepare to secure schools that will be used for polling stations, we follow Captain Aaron Combs (ph) of the first infantry division's 118th task force.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Staged along the side of the street so that we can just pull them into the road, block the road for the election day.
AMANPOUR: The crucial question, whether fear will be more powerful next week, or the chance to cast their first free vote.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: That was Christiane Amanpour on the scene about a month ago in Iraq. Let's go to some calls. Port St. Lucie, Florida, hello.
CALLER: Yes, hi, Larry King, I love your show. I was wondering if somebody can give me an explanation as to why the journalists must get that close to war, where we're being killed left and right.
KING: Michael, let's start with you, why do you have to get that close? Fair question.
HOLMES: Well as I said earlier -- yes, it is a fair question, Larry. As I said earlier, one thing about this war is it's all around you. If you're in Baghdad, if you're in Fallujah, you are in the middle of the war. And the other thing that I'd say is that if you're going to be here and you're going to sit in a basement or sit in a hotel room, well you might as well not come. The whole idea of being able to report the war is to see it. And to see what's going on yourself. If you don't do that, physically, then your accounts are second, third, fourth hand and that really doesn't achieve the aim and we're not doing our jobs.
KING: Bob Schieffer, you were in Vietnam. Did you feel you had to be close to everything?
SCHIEFFER: Yes, I think that's what reporting is all about, Larry. And that's the core of what journalism is about in a democracy. In a totalitarian society, you have one source for news. And that's the government. The press provides a second source. And then the citizens can decide which source they believe. There's no other way.
In every journalistic enterprise, some reporter has to go out and see for himself and then report back. But I'll tell you this, I mean, Peter Arnett and I first met in Vietnam. And at least there were some safe places there.
I've come to believe there are no safe places in this war. I think this is the most dangerous thing. And to see these young reporters like Lara and Christiane going out and doing what they're doing, I'm not sure I'm as brave as they are.
KING: Peter, do you have to be close?
ARNETT: You have to be close. There's no substitute for being close, Larry. What does impress me, just looking at our guests tonight, your guests tonight here, Lara, Christiane, Martha, I mean, they are just three of the many women who are in Iraq.
In Vietnam, that was a man's game. One woman reporter to every 100 men. Today in Iraq, I believe as many as 50 percent of the personnel there are women. And Larry, they're as good as Bob and I ever were. And they're really a wonderful development in journalism. My own daughter's a journalist and I'm impressed by what she and what our guests here tonight are doing.
KING: Lara, do you always have to look so serious?
LOGAN: Not always, Larry, but these are serious subjects. And you know, I mean, I just want to say it's the work of people like Christiane that made it possible for me to do some of the things that I've been able to do.
And Peter, the last time I saw him was in Baghdad hours before the U.S. invasion began. And you know, it's people like Peter and Bob who have helped young reporters come along and who have not stood in the way of women, have not blocked us from being taken seriously in that environment, who have helped us to be able to achieve this.
And it wasn't always like this. Women weren't always able to do this job the way we can do it now.
KING: Washington, D.C., hello.
CALLER: Yes, my question is, why hasn't there been more outrage on the part of the American people and the U.S. media, government, on the recent bombing in Pakistan, killing all those women and children? Ignoring sovereignty and international law?
I mean, I haven't seen anything in the American media that has really claimed how awful it was and the anger, the legitimate anger on the part of the Pakistani people. It just floors me that there's no outrage.
KING: Go ahead. Do you want to take that?
AMANPOUR: You know, I think -- well, certainly there's been a lot of reporting about it. Perhaps not enough for that view of it. As you know, there's not enough international reporting on American television anyway.
But I think to the bigger point, why are we there? We're there because if we're not, whose word are we going to take for it? For instance, over the bombing in Pakistan, and for instance, over the constant atrocities in Iraq.
Are we going to take the Pentagon paid Lincoln Group who are paying positive stories to be written in the Iraqi press? Are we going to take what the administration tells us? Do you remember at the beginning of this war, Donald Rumsfeld, secretary of defense, told us that these insurgents were just a bunch of dead enders who amounted to absolutely nothing.
Well, that was three years ago. You remember on your own show, not so long ago, the vice president of the United States said that the insurgency was in its death throes, in its last throes.
Well, we're there to report what's actually going on and we pay a heavy price for trying to get to the truth. And the truth is what our business is all about. And that's why we're out there, despite the enormous, enormous personal cost to us, to our families, and to our networks.
KING: Let's check in with Anderson Cooper, he's going to host "ANDERSON COOPER 360" at the top of the hour. Where are you? Somewhere else tonight. Where are you?
OK, I'm sorry, we don't have Anderson Cooper's mic. We'll straighten that out. I hope it's connected at the top of the hour when we check in with him. And we'll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Many in the media have lost friends and colleagues here. These are photos of just some of them. It is two years since we lost two of our own. Translator Duraid Mohammed Isa on the left, and one of our drivers, Yasser Katab, two vibrant men whose lives were cut short by insurgent bullets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: We're back with our panel. Powell, Ohio, hello.
CALLER: Hello, my question is for the panel this evening. The first thing I want to say is I want to commend President Bush and all of the United States military on all of the hard work and success that we've had with the war against terrorism in Iraq.
And my question is, why are the civilian reporters given more media attention than the American soldiers who are the everyday heroes that are wounded on a daily basis?
KING: You mean the media person who's wounded more attention than the soldier who's wounded? Is that what you mean?
CALLER: That's correct. It seems to me that the civilian media reporters are given more attention than the average, everyday American soldier.
KING: I'll have everybody answer it.
Bob Schieffer, what do you think?
SCHIEFFER: Well, I think, first of all, Bob Woodruff is someone that most Americans know. And when someone is known, they're going to get more publicity. But I think the caller makes a very good point, and this should be a reminder to all of us that every day there are military families who are going through just what Bob Woodruff's wife and his family are going through right now.
This is not something that just happens once or twice. This is something that's happening every single day of our lives. And it just underscores the terrible things that are happening in this war.
And so by focusing attention on one person, perhaps the caller would be reassured to know that it is causing other people to think about what is happening to these military families.
AMANPOUR: Well, I think it's an incredibly good question. The caller is absolutely right. And, as Bob Schieffer has just said, of course we focus on very well known people and members of our own community.
But the reason that the deaths and injuries of the American soldiers don't get as much publicity is because we are by and large banned from seeing it.
The United States government has made a decision that we are not allowed to see the coffins, that we're not allowed to see the burials, that we're generally not allowed to go to any of the areas where there are wounded, U.S. military hospitals.
Perhaps you can see a little bit more in Landstuhl in Germany. Perhaps when we go to the hospitals in the United States. But it's very, very difficult to get close to that kind of real tragedy that the American servicemen and women are going through as well.
KING: Why, Lara, can't you see them?
LOGAN: Well, I just want to say that Christiane is absolutely right, and on top of that there's a real irony in that caller's question. Because it's the military themselves that pressure us not to keep reporting the deaths of soldiers, not to focus on the deaths of soldiers and Iraqis ever single day in this conflict.
They tell us you don't tell the good news, you don't show the schools that are opening, you don't do this, you don't do that, why are you always focusing on the death?
And you try and say to them, it's because as a reporter I just feel like every time somebody else dies, I have a responsibility to make sure that death wasn't in vain. That somehow, in some way, it's acknowledged.
KING: So the lady from Ohio should take it up with the Pentagon.
KING: Jacksonville, Florida, hello. CALLER: Hello, Larry, thank you for having me on your show.
CALLER: My question is, what other precautions are being taken to free Jill Carroll?
KING: Peter Arnett, would you know? Do you know what they might be doing behind the scenes?
ARNETT: I think there's a full court press in terms of assembling, you know, those who in the past have been quite effective in getting hostages released, going from groups, Islamic groups, in the United States, interested clerics within Baghdad itself. There's an embassy team that is apparently at work trying to make contacts with interested Iraqis.
I would have to say that in the past two weeks every effort has been made at every level from the White House down I would hope to see if she can be released. There is a major problem that was brought out earlier is acceding to the hostage takers' demands that the rest of the female prisoners be released.
The U.S. government is unwilling to do that. So that is a sticking point at this point.
KING: Michael Holmes, do you hear anything at all?
HOLMES: Yes, we hear things, Larry. It's very difficult to confirm a lot of the things we hear. But Peter's quite right. There is a full court press on. We know that. And it's on all levels, diplomatic, political, and religious.
One of the things about Jill Carroll's kidnapping is that it was an almost unprecedented, unified voice coming from here in Iraq, from Iraqis across all political and religious spectrums, saying that this was a mistake, that this should not have happened, and she should be released.
So far that pressure obviously has not had the desired effect. One hopes it will. But there is a lot going on behind the scenes.
KING: We'll take a break and be back with some more moments on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LOGAN: These soldiers live from moment to moment never knowing when they're going to get hit. That's what happened on this day when their base suddenly came under attack.
They take cover in the nearest bunker. Alpha company's been rocketed many times before. But the enemy isn't usually this accurate.
(END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Wednesday night Jimmy Carter for the hour.
St. Paul, Minnesota, hello. St. Paul are you there?
KING: Go ahead.
CALLER: Yes, my question, Larry, first of all I want to thank the media for everything they've done to show us what they've shown us in Iraq, and one thing that's consistent for me is that clearly we've got various factions there.
This is where my question comes in. Specifically at what point do we say that as a country, we can't necessarily force or press upon the Iraqi people unification? And at what point do we say maybe it's impossible to get to that point? And are they capable without our support to become a series of separate, independent states?
LOGAN: Well, I mean, that's the 64 million dollar question that everybody wants to answer. And I don't think the two things are going to happen at the same time.
I think domestic politics in the United States is going to dictate at which point the Americans decide the Iraqis are ready to do this on their own.
And In terms of what the Iraqis decide for themselves, well, if you speak to people on the streets, depending which part of the country you're in, you get a very different answer.
The Shiites in the south, they've never had this much power, and they're looking forward to consolidating that. The Sunnis feel completely isolated and left out. They feel they've got lose to lose. And the Kurds in the north, well, many of them I speak to say they're just waiting for the moment to declare their own independent state.
None of this paints a very rosy picture. But I don't want to be the person that pretends I have all the answers. And I think that this will play itself out in the next few months. And it's an absolutely critical question, how the United States behaves from now on.
Because the one group that is watching more than anybody else is al Qaeda themselves. They watch the polls in America. They watch the television screens. They listen to the politicians. And they are just waiting for the moment they can declare victory when American forces leave. KING: Thank you Lara. We're out of time. I've only got five seconds.
Bob Schieffer, you want the job permanently?
KING: And you're doing a great job.
SCHIEFFER: Thank you, Larry.
KING: I hate saying interim.
Anyway, we have got to rush out of time here. Anderson Cooper, we have connected with him now. He's in a tunnel somewhere. He will explain that later.
But Anderson you worked with Bob Woodruff at ABC. What can you tell us about him?
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: I did. We overlapped for a short time while I was at ABC. He is a great guy. I mean, he is not only just a fantastic reporter, but, you know, he is just a very decent human being.
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