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Nancy Grace

The Husband and Father of a Murdered Hopkinton Woman and her 9- Month-Old Baby Apparently Refuses to Cooperate with U.S. Investigators who Flew to England to Talk to Him. Enron Trial Set to Begin.

Aired January 30, 2006 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight: Rapid developments in a double murder mystery surrounding a 27-year-old mother apparently sleeping with her 9- month-old baby girl, both murdered in their own bed. We go live to Great Britain. The husband flew there and shows no sign of returning for his wife and baby`s funeral. Tonight, reports surface that same father refuses to cooperate with U.S. police. They flew across the Atlantic for answers.
And tonight, a bizarre murder mystery, a woman accused of killing her own three children. Motive? Her husband wanted a divorce.

Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Tonight: A mom allegedly smothers her own three children, including twins, age 5 to 7, and tells police her husband caused her to do it because he announced plans to divorce. Now, there`s a defense! Can you say "death penalty-eligible"?

And tonight, breaking news just in. A jury is seated in the Enron prosecution. Two of the most powerful men who ruled the financial empire called Enron face off with Lady Justice.

But first tonight, fast-breaking developments tonight in the brutal murders of a beautiful 27-year-old Massachusetts woman, Rachel Entwistle, and her 9-month-old baby girl, Lillian Rose. A person of interest, father and husband Neil Entwistle, remains in his native England tonight, reportedly refusing to help investigators.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rachel was a wonderful wife, daughter, granddaughter, sister and mother. With the birth of Rachel`s daughter, Lillian Rose Entwistle, last April, Rachel shared the greatest love, that of being a mother.

MARTHA COAKLEY, MIDDLESEX COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: The car that Neil Entwistle was driving has been found. The police have that vehicle at this time. Investigators also have learned that Neil Entwistle is out of the country, and in fact, have been in contact with him.

DR. HENRY LEE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: The time of the death is crucial in this case. If we can establish the time of death, then we can use (INAUDIBLE) analysis, either including Neil as a suspect or excluding him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The family has every confidence in the Middlesex district attorney`s office, Martha Coakley`s office, along with the Massachusetts State Police and the Hopkinton Police Department will solve this case and bring to justice those responsible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Casey Ross with "The Boston Herald." Casey, bring us up to date.

CASEY ROSS, "BOSTON HERALD": Well, Massachusetts authorities have returned from England to the United States without receiving the cooperation that they were hoping to from Neil Entwistle in England. So now they`ve returned her, and they`re going to focus on building their case from Massachusetts.

GRACE: What do you mean, without the cooperation they had hoped for?

ROSS: Well, they had asked him for an interview, had summoned him to the U.S. embassy there in hopes of getting an interview, and they were unsuccessful in getting him to sit down face to face to answer questions.

GRACE: Well, it`s my understanding, Casey -- and tell us if we`re wrong -- that U.S. officials flew across the ocean to speak to Entwistle. It`s my understanding he went to the U.S. embassy and was in there for about 12 hours. Did he not go in? Did he leave? What happened?

ROSS: Our understanding, at this point, is that he was summoned to the embassy, that he may have been there for a short period of time, but that somewhere along that timeframe he talked to an attorney, and then refused to talk to investigators.

GRACE: What else can you tell us tonight, Casey?

ROSS: Well, so far, the family back here in Massachusetts is planning for the funeral, which is coming up on Wednesday. Lillian and her mother, Rachel, are going to be waked tomorrow. And so far, as we understand it, Neil Entwistle has made no plans to return to the United States.

GRACE: I`m just hearing in my ear the fact that the autopsies on the mother and child have just been completed. We don`t have those autopsy reports. As you know, very often, autopsy reports are public documents. We`ll try to get those for you during tonight`s broadcast. Repeat, the autopsy on mother and child have been completed, Rachel and Lillian Entwistle.

Very quickly, back to Casey Ross. Casey, I heard you say that the mass was set for Wednesday. Now that the autopsies are completed, will there be a burial?

ROSS: I expect that, yes, there certainly will be on that day. It`ll certainly be interesting. Those are very critical documents in the case, and they`ll help establish exactly what the time of deaths were, which is critical to the timeframe that the investigators are trying to compile here.

GRACE: Let`s go straight to Jim Roberson, BBC correspondent. Jim, what can you tell us about his 12-hour visit to the U.S. embassy? Are you telling me that, apparently, U.S. officials got nothing out of Neil Entwistle?

JAMES ROBERSON, BBC: As far as I can understand, Nancy -- good evening. As far as I can understand, we believe he didn`t actually go in. He went down there, he drove 150 miles down from Worksop Nottinghamshire down to London, but we believe that his attorney -- or his solicitor, as we call them in England -- may have spoken to him and said that it might not be advisable for him to speak to American law enforcement agents. And therefore, he may not have gone in. He may not have talked to them. But it`s unclear, really, at this stage, exactly what happened.

GRACE: Here is what a family spokesperson had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The entire family is overwhelmed by the loss of Rachel and Lillian and the events of last weekend. We are also grateful for the outpouring of prayers, love and support offered by family, friends and strangers alike. The family asks for your continued prayers. They`re also asking that you respect their privacy during this most difficult time. On Wednesday, we will take Rachel and Lillian to their rest.

The family has every confidence that the Middlesex district attorney`s office, Martha Coakley`s office, along with the Massachusetts State Police and the Hopkinton Police Department will solve this case and bring to justice those responsible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And today, noticeably absent in the obituary for the mother and child any mention of the father, Neil Entwistle. So apparently, that glaring omission says it all. Alex Sanchez, defense attorney, how are you going to explain it to a jury, if it goes that far? Of course, this young man not a suspect. How do you explain he doesn`t even come? Please! At least come and pretend that you`re crying. Pinch yourself!

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think Mr. Entwistle is being seriously mistreated in the media and by the police because people are drawing incredible conclusions that somehow, he must be connected to this crime simply because he has not cooperated with the police at this point.

GRACE: Well, what...

SANCHEZ: What I`m interested in seeing, and what you should be interested in seeing, is whether or not there is physical evidence, like a gun or some type of blood, or is there a witness that sold him a gun or someone had seen him throw away some type of evidence, something like that linking him to this particular crime. But at this point, there is nothing. And I challenge you, Nancy, and anybody on this show to show me one solitary piece of evidence linking this man to the crime.

GRACE: OK, Alex, I don`t know if in all of your many, many homicide defense cases you have ever heard of a circumstantial case, but I think it is very persuasive. And again, tonight, Neil Entwistle not an official suspect. He is, however, an official person of interest -- leaves town the very day that nobody hears from the wife and daughter again.

SANCHEZ: Yes, but...

GRACE: Let me finish, please! That he goes on a trip to Great Britain without telling a single soul he`s going, he cancels a dinner party to be had at the home without explaining anything to the guests, he goes surreptitiously to Logan airport, leaves his car, travels across the ocean the same day his wife and daughter are most likely killed in their own home. He`s the last one to see them.

He`s going broke. He`s got a ton of family pressure. He refuses to cooperate. Unlike a lot of husbands that would want to find out who killed their wife and baby, he refuses to cooperate and refuses to come home. Now, true, that doesn`t a killer make, but it looks pretty bad for him, Alex.

SANCHEZ: Yes, except for one fact that you`ve failed to mention here, Nancy, is the fact that he left on Friday and went to England. On Saturday, the police entered into the apartment. They searched the apartment, they didn`t find anybody. They didn`t find anybody dead in that apartment. So if he was in England on Friday and the police searched the apartment Saturday and they found no one, how could he have committed this offense?

GRACE: You know, Casey Ross with "The Boston Herald," that is a glaring mistake on the part of the police. I mean, the obvious explanation is that the killer had covered the bodies with blankets in the bed, and when the cops walked in, you could, you know, think the bed was badly made. Now, that is going to be the most likely explanation. But still, Casey, what a glaring, glaring mistake on the part of the police.

ROSS: Yes, they have faced some criticism as a result of that. It was clear that they went through, and there`s no evidence to suggest that the bodies weren`t there when they first went through, and they only found them 22 hours later, when they conducted a second search of the house.

GRACE: And tonight, fast-breaking news in this case, the bodies of mother and child -- I am, of course, recovering to Rachel and Lillian Rose Entwistle, mother and child -- have been released, as autopsies completed.

And the police have come home empty-handed, Courtney Anderson, empty- handed. Now, how bad is it going to look to a jury, if it ever goes that far, that this man, Neil Entwistle, refused to cooperate with police in their investigation in the murders of his wife and daughter?

COURTNEY ANDERSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s going to look absolutely horrible. I mean, I`m not going to agree that the media has done an absolute disservice to Mr. Entwistle. It does look strange, and it looks odd and it looks something that would be suspicious to most of us. If my loved one or my spouse and my infant baby were killed, it seems that most of us would react in grief and shock, maybe with different ways of expressing that, but we certainly would cooperate with law enforcement, and we probably would do everything in our power to be present at their memorial service.

GRACE: So Courtney, long story short, if you had to take this to trial -- and again, he`s not an official suspect -- but if you had to take it to trial, what would you say, he was so overwhelmed with grief, he couldn`t come home for the funeral?

ANDERSON: Well, what I would say, that he was relying on legal counsel, and that`s something that, certainly, across the pond and here in the States, a lawyer`s always going to tell someone who could be potentially involved in a criminal case to just be quiet, don`t say anything, and that that would be one explanation for the behavior and for maybe not taking part in the investigation at the embassy the way that he could have, and maybe for trying to explain why he chose to grieve in his own way there in England instead of returning back home tomorrow for the service.

GRACE: Chose to grieve in his own way. You know Jim Moret, chief correspondent with "Inside Edition," the first time I ever heard that lame excuse, chose to grieve in his own way, was when I prosecuting a multi- millionaire for the murder of his wife and he wouldn`t pay the bill for the funeral. And the defense attorney said something about grieving in his own way.

Everybody, Jim Moret is just chief correspondent for "Inside Edition," he is a lawyer, as well. Jim, I don`t care how you want to whitewash this thing, it doesn`t look good.

JIM MORET, "INSIDE EDITION": Well, I agree with you, Nancy. And look, there`s the law, and sure, you`re going to tell your client, Don`t say anything. But then there`s reality. And we saw a very good defense attorney, criminal defense attorney, Daniel Horowitz -- what was he told, Don`t say anything, when his wife was slain. What did he do? He was grieving. He came to you. He said, Anybody with any information, help me. He took you through the house.

I cannot imagine a more horrific situation than somebody you love being killed and you not even going to the funeral. Does that mean he`s guilty? Of course it doesn`t. And if the police say he`s not a suspect, he`s not, but he is, as they say, a person of interest. They wanted to talk to him because they believe he may have some very valuable information. And by all accounts, he`s not cooperating.

GRACE: You know, very often, Jim Moret, when you`re looking at a homicide case, you look to what the victim`s family has to say. Let`s take a look. Rosy (ph), can you put up the obituary? This was from today`s local paper, obituary. Rachel Entwistle, Rachel E. Souza of Kingston, January 22, 2006, age 27, loving mother of Lillian Rose Entwistle. She is survived by many dear friends and family both here and in England. Memorial donations in Rachel`s memory to be made to Special Olympics of Massachusetts, 450 Maple, Bldg. # 1, Danvers, Massachusetts, 01923."

Jim, something`s missing with this obit. Let`s see.

MORET: You bet there is.

GRACE: What would it be?

MORET: It would be Neil Entwistle. If the family by omission hasn`t even mentioned the husband, he may not be called a suspect by police, but you better believe that that family is suspicious. They didn`t even mention the husband, the father. They didn`t even mention him.

GRACE: And also -- Dr. Robi Ludwig with us here on the set, psychotherapist. Dr. Robi, I know that the family has not spoken out about who they think is the perpetrator, but this omission, in my mind, speaks volumes.

ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Very loud and clear.

GRACE: And why would the family be interested in anyone but the true perpetrator?

LUDWIG: Yes, absolutely. And they probably know -- they know him better than we know him, so that certainly says something. Maybe he just wasn`t a great guy. Maybe he was not an upstanding husband. Maybe he was one of these kind of sexy, charming, seductive people, but was not a good husband and more sociopathic. And these types of men, sometimes when a family gets in the way, they decide to murder them so they can have their freedom.

GRACE: Very quickly, to tonight`s "Case Alert." Police looking for new leads in a San Francisco murder/carjack we`ve been following this past week. On the loose, the killers of a young father, 34-year-old Sean Keel, shot to death in cold blood during a carjack. Today, Keel laid to rest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROSA KEEL, WIDOW: I know he was on his way home to us from his job, and I just think that someone just saw the car, they thought that it was an opportunity. And I don`t know what they did, but they shouldn`t have done what they did to my husband! They shouldn`t have done that. He`s lost. He`s going to be greatly missed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: If you have information on the Sean Keel murder, call San Francisco police, 415-575-4444. A trust fund set up tonight for the Keel family at any Wells Fargo (INAUDIBLE) for the Rosa Keel Trust Fund, or by mail to the Rosa Keel Trust Fund, care of Wells Fargo Bank, 464 California Street, San Francisco, 94163.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COAKLEY: They were both in the bed. They were obviously close to each other, if you can imagine the positioning, because the baby was in front of the mother. So again, when they were discovered, they appeared to be in bed in somewhat a natural position. They did not appear to be victims of violence at that time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Police fly home from Great Britain empty-handed, Neil Entwistle reportedly refusing to cooperate with police.

Straight back out to BBC correspondent James Roberson. James, on Friday night, one of your colleagues was here with us, telling us that Entwistle had been in the U.S. embassy 12 hours being grilled by police. He came with only his father, a local politician. Now we find out the exact opposite, no cooperation whatsoever. What have you learned about that? Does he have a lawyer?

ROBERSON: We don`t know. We`ve been outside his house today. We`ve been trying to question his father, who`s been coming and going from the house in Worksop in north Nottinghamshire, North of London. We`ve been asking him questions. He`s been completely silent. He won`t speak to the reporters, either the reporters from the USA, from Massachusetts, or the British reporters. And whether he comes or goes, he will not say a word. And we`ve asked him that question repeatedly, and we can`t get any information as to whether he has a lawyer at all.

GRACE: Is anyone in the family speaking?

ROBERSON: Not at all. We`re absolutely -- to use an old British phrase, it`s complete stiff upper lip. They won`t say a word, and they are just ignoring -- they`re perfectly polite, they`re not rude, they`re just ignoring the reporters as if we are not there.

GRACE: To Dr. Warner Spitz, medical examiner and forensic pathologist. Dr. Spitz, welcome to the show. What sort of information do you believe investigators gained from the autopsies?

DR. WARNER SPITZ, MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, they missed a very crucial time when they first came into the house to find the bodies. They must have walked around that bed and to judge that -- to make the determination that the bed was not made but never looked under the covers. The bodies, I understand, are decomposed now. So what did they lose? They lost all the information that you obtain from a fresh body, the evidence of range of fire, the -- in fact, the fact that there was no bullet wound found at first when the bodies were looked upon. And that would have been almost impossible if that body was fresh.

GRACE: We`ll be right back with medical examiner, forensic pathologist Dr. Warner Spitz, and the rest of our panel, Jim Moret and also with us with the BBC, James Roberson.

But to tonight`s "Case Alert." Florida investigators used bloodhounds and helicopters today to search the wooded area where missing 24-year-old Jennifer Kesse`s car was recovered. Police also seize surveillance tape from businesses in Jennifer`s neighborhood. They are hoping, hoping against hope, to find clues to her disappearance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The longer something goes on, it`s certainly always going to be concerning to the family and it`s always going to be concerning to us. But you know, we`re going to always hope and keep our fingers crossed that we can move quickly with what information we get and try to find her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: The reward in Jennifer`s case tonight up to $115,000. If you have information on the disappearance of this girl, Jennifer Kesse, call 800-423-TIPS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rachel was a wonderful wife, daughter, granddaughter, sister and mother. She was always first to share her beliefs, her love and her support to others. She made her close friends a part of her family, and she always kept her family at the center of her life. With the birth of Rachel`s daughter, Lillian Rose Entwistle, last April, Rachel shared the greatest love, that of being a mother.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back. To Jim Moret, chief correspondent, "Inside Edition." We know the funeral or a mass is set for Wednesday. How devastating to police, to go try to question Entwistle 12 straight hours and get nothing, not a zilch?

MORET: Well, also adding to that was the embarrassment, as you reported just a few minutes ago, that apparently, they went into the premises the day before and didn`t see the bodies.

All they know so far, apparently, Nancy, is that the two seem to have been killed by a single small-caliber bullet. Apparently, they didn`t even notice a bullet wound initially. But you`re right, to go all that way, to think you`re going to get cooperation and to talk to the person who`s being called the person of interest, the person who should be closest to the two people who`ve been killed, the person who should want to help and get nothing, I would think that they would be so frustrated.

GRACE: To BBC correspondent James Roberson. James, what can you tell us about the area in which Entwistle grew up? What do we know about him and his family?

ROBERSON: Well, he grew up in what`s still called Sherwood Forest. It`s still there, as it was in Robin Hood`s time. It`s not quite the forest it used to be, but it`s still there. It`s small mining town, a mining and market town. It`s about, as I said, 150 miles north of London. And he lives in a quiet cul-de-sac. It`s a dead-end road on the edge of a golf course, in what used to be a miner`s house, I would imagine, built probably 40, 50 years ago. His father is a local councilor, a local politician. They are a very quit, respectable family. I believe he went to university. Seems to be, on the face of it, a very upright young man.

GRACE: When you say a university, he got a -- what, a four-year degree in what?

ROBERSON: I`m not sure, but I believe he met his wife at university. I`m not sure quite what degree he got, but I believe it`s in the IT and computer area.

GRACE: And what can you tell us about outside the Entwistle house today?

ROBERSON: Well, there were about at least 25 reporters. There were American reporters. There were British reporters. There was a huge scrum of people. Every time Neil`s father came out, there was a big rush, where we were all trying to question him and ask him questions about what was happening. As I`ve said, he said nothing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... living in the DeQueen approximately a year. Her husband moved back to Manhattan where they were from to continue working and supporting the family from there.

He didn`t show back after Christmas. She took her kids to Manhattan. And there, apparently a disagreement took place. He informed her he wanted out of the marriage. It got pretty bad. She loaded the kids in a bus and came back to the Sevier County. Over the next few weeks, she became despondent and ultimately decided to take her life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: A shocking discovery in a suburban home, three children dead, including a set of twins, between them ages five to seven. Why? According to the mother, who was also a doctor, because her husband wanted a divorce. Now, if that is not the ultimate get-back, I don`t know what is.

To Rich Shapiro, reporter with the "New York Daily News," bring us up- to-date.

RICH SHAPIRO, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": Well, Nancy, Paula Mendez was charged today with three counts of capital murder. The prosecutor said in so many words that he will be seeking the death penalty.

GRACE: Wow. Courtney Anderson, that`s a pretty quick decision, huh? Usually that takes weeks and weeks to make the decision whether to seek the death penalty.

COURTNEY ANDERSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: (OFF-MIKE) certainly shocking the conscience. It`s heartbreaking. It`s one of those things that`s just absolutely incomprehensible.

I assume the prosecutors are doing what they think is in the best interests of the people that they represent. I hope that she receives the absolute best defense counsel that she can and that they fight vigorously for her life.

GRACE: Joining me right now, a phoner out of Arkansas, Tom Cooper, prosecutor on the Mendez case. Tom, is it true that this woman is, in fact, a doctor?

TOM COOPER, 9TH WEST DISTRICT PROSECUTING ATTORNEY: That`s what we learned from her and from her husband, that she was a practicing doctor in Mexico City for five years. She met her husband, Arturo Morales, in New York City (INAUDIBLE) according to him decided to live in the United States. From our understanding, she never practiced in the United States because she had trouble learning English.

GRACE: What does Paula Mendez say happened on Saturday morning? And what`s the cause of death, to your knowledge now? I`ve heard suffocation and poisoning.

COOPER: Well, what she told law enforcement officers was that she became despondent, depressed about the information concerning her husband, that she purchased or bought some bug poison. She took it. She said her children saw her take it and supposedly they told her they wanted to die, too. And we`re talking about two 5-year-olds and a 7-year-old.

She said she blessed them and she suffocated all three children.

Now, we`ve got the preliminary autopsy back, which is in agreement with the fact they were suffocated. But the evidence at the crime scene also seems to indicate they were poisoned, too. Probably our toxicology result is two to three weeks out at this time.

GRACE: You know, Tom Cooper, I`m sure as a felony prosecutor you`ve seen it all, but there`s no worse case to prosecute than the death of a child. And I know, Tom Cooper, you`re not going to comment on the facts.

I`m going to go very -- don`t leave us, though, Tom, the prosecutor in this case.

COOPER: OK.

GRACE: Dr. Warner Spitz, sources have divulged that in the home were four cups of -- empty cups of hot chocolate, next to pesticide. Now, Dr. Spitz, you`re the expert, you`re the medical examiner, you`re the forensic pathologist. What would these children have lived through if they had been poisoned with pesticide?

WARNER SPITZ: Well, the pesticide mixed with the chocolate is not going to taste like very much. It`s not going to be noxious to consume.

GRACE: Right.

SPITZ: Once they swallow it, they will have tremendous cramps, abdominal pain, vomit, sweat and difficulty breathing. Depends on the type of poison it is.

There are different types of this kind of poison. Most of them, the ones used in households, are usually of the phosphate type, which cause respiratory paralysis and respiratory difficulties proceeding it. So this is not a very -- well, death is never nice, but this is a very terrible way to die.

GRACE: You`re right. Death is never nice.

To chief correspondent with "Inside Edition," Jim Moret. What did police find when they came into Paula Mendez`s home?

JIM MORET, CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, "INSIDE EDITION": Well, they found the bodies of the three children side by side in the queen-sized bed, in the master bedroom. And, as you reported, they found -- in a separate area of the home, they found these four cups, alongside what appeared to be insecticide.

And they also found two notes written in Spanish, one apparently written to the husband and one to whomever found the bodies. And obviously, that would lead police to the conclusion that she was despondent over the separation with her husband and that she took her children`s lives.

GRACE: To Dr. Robi Ludwig, psychotherapist, hey, you know (INAUDIBLE) show everybody on the set -- is anybody on this set ever not been broken up with? Anybody never been dumped in your life? Everybody distraught over a breakup, miserable, sad, crying, all night.

Dr. Robi, this is the ultimate get-back, in my mind, if these facts are true.

DR. ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, it could be. That`s one...

GRACE: If you`re going to divorce me, you`ll never see your children again.

LUDWIG: That`s one way to look at it. And that`s typically what men do. When men kill their children, very often it`s revenge to get back at their wife.

But studies show that it`s not always the same reasoning when a woman kills her children. It almost sounds like the children were an extension of this woman. And when she was depressed and in a despondent state, she did not separate her children from herself, so really killing her children was an extension of her suiciding.

GRACE: A couple questions. A, she didn`t commit suicide. Why is it when these moms are depressed -- Hey, Rosie, do you have those moms for me? Let`s take a look at these moms. Andrea Yates, she`s depressed, she kills all of her kids, five. Amy Grossberg, she was depressed because she was going to miss college. Her baby boy was bludgeoned to death and thrown in a dumpster.

There you go. There`s the prom mom, Melissa Drexler. She didn`t want high school to end, killed her baby boy at the prom. There`s Deanna Laney, rock mom. She was unhappy with her life, bludgeoned all her children to death with a rock.

Oh, who could forget her, Susan Smith? Of all of them, you know -- and then blames an unknown perp for the murders. She had been rejected in love.

And now the case at hand. So, explain to me, number one, she had burned the children`s toys. That is highly symbolic, to lay them out side by side.

LUDWIG: Yes.

GRACE: What does this mean to you?

LUDWIG: Well, she could have felt that the children somehow interfered with her husband wanting to be with her. We don`t know what she found when she went to visit her husband. Maybe she found him with another girlfriend who wasn`t bogged down with children and felt that somehow the children were interfering with her desirability and her husband wanting her.

GRACE: Hmm. And what about burning their toys?

LUDWIG: She could have been enraged. I mean, it`s enormously stressful You don`t speak English in a country. She can`t work in her trained profession. She`s poor, and she has the stress of dealing with her children. That`s enormously difficult. She could have been enraged and she just lost it.

GRACE: Here`s what the local sheriff had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... it`s the first time we`ve ever had a child -- you know, we`ve ever had a murder of any children, especially three. Always before it`s maybe been an negligent homicide or something like that. But in our district, this is the first one I`ve ever known of that we`ve actually lost three children at the same time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: A triple homicide. You know, to Tom Cooper, the prosecutor on the Mendez case, I understand this has already been announced as a capital case. To my understanding, in Arkansas, the last time a woman was put to death, a long time ago, maybe only one woman in the state -- I`m not sure - - Christine Riggs (ph), who also killed her children?

COOPER: I`m not sure that there`s ever been a woman put to death in the state of Arkansas. I don`t know that off the top of my head.

GRACE: You know, that`s very rare. And I`m speaking as a former prosecutor. It is very rare that the state seeks the death penalty on a woman. And, of course, Lady Justice supposed to be blind as to the gender of the perpetrator.

Here is what another father had to say upon learning his children had been murdered by their mother.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I lost everything. I lost the reason I was getting up and, you know, getting up every day and breathing in and out. Because our marriage was gone, so I mean all I had was Mike and Alex. And I mean, they were the reason I was, you know, putting two feet on the floor every morning.

Then that was gone. I didn`t know what to do anymore. I mean, for about a year there, I just went where anyone told me to go. What they told me, "OK, David, you`ve got to get up today and you`ve got to go to this place." "OK, David, in two days you`re going to have to go and do this and this and this." And I`d say, "OK, whatever," just like a puppet, almost, because I couldn`t function.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: The then-husband of Susan Smith, upon learning his children had been murdered by his wife.

Alex Sanchez, bye-bye insanity defense. This woman wrote extensive letters, suicide notes, what to do with their bodies. She killed them, apparently, one by one, had to go purchase the pesticide, killed them in this manner, hide from them what they were drinking. What`s your best defense, Alex?

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, look, Nancy, is it so impossible or incomprehensible to understand that there are people that have complete emotional, nervous and psychiatric breakdowns and act in some bizarre manner which is socially unacceptable?

This woman had never been in trouble before. She had never been reported as being some type of abusive parent. She moved from the Bronx to Arkansas. I grew up in the Bronx, and I know very few people that moved out to go to Arkansas. It`s a wonderful place, but, you know, she took her family to move there for a better life.

And her husband said he was going to divorce her. And he also said he was going to take the kids away. And I think this triggered something. It was a breakdown, and unfortunately she committed this vile act under those conditions.

GRACE: Tom Cooper, prosecutor in the Paula Mendez case, we`ll be watching, friend. Thank you for being with us.

COOPER: Thank you.

GRACE: Quick break, everyone. We`ll be right back.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL RAMSEY, ATTORNEY FOR KEN LAY: Getting a fair trial is a matter of picking a brave jury in a case like this, not only one that`s impartial but one that`s ready to -- or brave enough to return an improper -- I mean, unpopular verdict. And that`s what we`ve got to look for here.

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GRACE: Two of the most powerful men in the Enron empire faced off with a worthy opponent today, Lady Justice. That`s right, a jury has been seated. It`s all about Trial 101, voir dire, jury selection, who you sit in the box. The jury box will determine the outcome of your trial.

Straight out to Ali Velshi, CNN correspondent and anchor. What happened in court today?

ALI VELSHI, CNN BUSINESS NEWS ANCHOR: Well, they went from 400 potential jurors to 96 who walked into this court this morning. They whittled that down to 38. And out of that 38, 16 people were seated, 12 jurors, four alternates. These are the people who will hear the corporate case of the century against Ken Lay, the former chairman of Enron, and Jeff Skilling, the former president.

Nancy, they have had 16 senior executives who have made a deal with the government to cooperate with them. There are others who have been charged, still awaiting trial.

But this is the big -- this is the granddaddy of corporate trials. The government really wants to be able to show that they can defend the investor and the average worker in America. Four years since the bankruptcy of Enron, and tomorrow morning it gets under way with opening arguments.

GRACE: To Russ Alba, corporate mergers and acquisitions attorney, Russ Alba, I remember when Enron went down, when it collapsed, throwing people out of work. They became pension pirates, taking all the money that people had saved for their whole life. Explain to me: How much money are we talking about? What is this case about?

RUSS ALBA, CORPORATE ATTORNEY: The case is, fundamentally, Nancy, about a company that lied about its earnings and lied about its debt. It dramatically overstated the amount of earnings that it had, and it dramatically understated the amount of debt that it carried on its books.

GRACE: Well, wait a minute, Russ, isn`t that what Arthur Andersen was supposed to be doing, keeping them honest? Isn`t that why you have outside auditors?

ALBA: That`s correct, Nancy. The outside auditing firms are supposed to attest to the integrity and honesty of the financial records.

GRACE: But I guess, when the players are cooking the books so badly, I mean, how is Arthur Andersen supposed to know what and how they`re hiding or cooking the books?

ALBA: Well, they`re terribly competent guys, but remember in -- accountants -- but in this case, remember, Arthur Anderson was not accused of participating in the fraud but rather of obstructing justice by destroying documents during the pendency of the investigation.

GRACE: Ouch.

Joining us right now by phone, a very special guest, in my mind, Cathy Peterson, an alleged Enron victim. Cathy, thank you for being with us. How did Enron affect the life of you and your husband?

CATHY PETERSON, ENRON VICTIM: Well, it destroyed us, actually. Bill was diagnosed with the melanoma cancer in July of 2001, and he was told he had a year of short-term disability. And he was real supported by the mid- management and his friends, and he was told at the time of diagnosis that a positive attitude played an important role in recovery. When the fall came to his surprise, I believe that he lost his will to live.

GRACE: Was your husband`s medical treatment affected when Enron declared bankruptcy?

PETERSON: Certainly, it was. When we were laid off -- he was laid off in December 3rd, but Bill didn`t find out until the 6th -- he had 25 more days of medical insurance. Then we had to get on COBRA. But the (INAUDIBLE) employees made it almost impossible to get the paperwork to sign up.

GRACE: To Ali Velshi, CNN correspondent and anchor, how many employees lost their jobs? And how many people were affected? I mean, Ali, remember the blackouts in California after Enron went bust?

VELSHI: Well, that`s the point. Four thousand employees of Enron, but Anderson, Arthur Andersen, 20,000 employees paid the price because some people were crooked. And then $30 billion in extra energy costs in California. And then tens of thousands of Americans who owned Enron stock that was worth -- went from $90 to 66 cents, not worth the fancy paper it was printed on.

So many people were hurt because some people did something wrong. It`s a legal, established fact that there was fraud. Something was done, but someone, someone needs to answer to it. And the problem with the Arthur Andersen thing is, while some people did something wrong, that entire company came down. And a whole bunch of honest people across the country and their families suffered because of it.

GRACE: To Russ Alba, when I think about people like my parents who worked their whole lives, save a pension, never missed a day`s work, and then suddenly it`s all gone, Russ. I mean...

ALBA: Nancy, that`s exactly the human face that this case needs. And I think that`s what the prosecution will be presenting to the jury in its case against Ken Lay and Jeffrey Skilling. The human devastation in this case is dramatic and unprecedented.

And I think you`ll hear, in addition to the evidence of the former executives who will be testifying against Lay and Skilling, you`ll be hearing a significant amount of evidence about the devastation on a personal level and also on a systemic level.

GRACE: Right. And when we come back, to Ali Velshi, to find out if the state`s seeking the death penalty.

Quickly to tonight`s "All-Points Bulletin." U.S. marshals on the lookout for Curtis Michael Keith, wanted in connection with 104 counts of child rape. Keith is 45, 5`10", 165 pounds, brown hair, brown eyes. If you have info on Curtis Michael Keith, call U.S. Marshals, 1-877-WANTED-2.

Local news next for some of you, but we`ll all be right back. And remember, live coverage of a 16-year-old New Mexico young man on trial for the shooting death of his family, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern, Court TV.

Please stay with us as we stop to remember Sergeant Sean H. Miles, just 28, an American hero.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you have to program driving to town on account of the price of gasoline, when you have to go to the doctor and do your bill-paying and grocery shopping all at one trip to save from having to put that high-dollar gasoline in your truck, you know, it`s real bad.

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GRACE: You know, when you think of all the people who worked their whole lives for Enron, nothing left to show for it -- to Russ Alba, he is an expert in corporate mergers and acquisitions. Russ, have the Enron executives been able to keep all that money?

ALBA: Nancy, the ones that have pleaded guilty have disgorged all of their ill-gotten gains and...

GRACE: Disgorged?

ALBA: That`s the legal term of art. They`ve had to return all of the funds that they got from the illegal dealings, in addition to paying.

GRACE: Oh, please, Russ, are you kidding me? You really think they didn`t hide any of it? Come on, please. Just don`t even -- Why are you even saying that?

ALBA: Nancy, the investigatory powers of the United States government are pretty amazing, and I`m fairly confident that the American public can rest assured that the ill-gotten gains have been returned.

GRACE: Rest assured? Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Ali Velshi, if everybody was doing their jobs, how did they get away with doing it for so long? Billions! Billions.

VELSHI: Well, Russ is true. Russ is right. There`s investigative powers, but the fact is these guys got away with it in the first place. And one of the things that Russ said a minute ago that`s really important here is this is a phenomenally complicated case. And the one thing that the government has to be careful not to do so that everybody gets justice is not overcomplicate it to the point that the jury doesn`t understand this.

This is high-level, sophisticated accounting shenaniganry that was going on. And it`s going to be very tough...

GRACE: Oh, well, you know, if they pull out words like "shenaniganry," the jury may get lost.

Very quickly, Cathy Peterson, how long did your husband work for Enron?

PETERSON: He worked at Enron five years, first on a contract basis and then on a full-time basis. And our story is documented in my book, called "Flashlight Walking." And I wrote a second book that was...

GRACE: Are you following the trial?

PETERSON: Yes, I am, I`m following the trial.

GRACE: A big thank you to Cathy Peterson and Russ Alba, Ali Velshi, and the rest of our panel. But a big thank you to all of our guests tonight. Our biggest thank you, to you for being with us, inviting us and our legal stories and our most wanted into your homes.

Coming up, headlines from all over the world. I`m Nancy Grace signing off for this Monday night. Hope to see you right here tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END