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Nancy Grace

Latest on Entwistle Case

Aired January 31, 2006 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, we go live across the Atlantic for the latest on 27-year-old Neil Entwistle, his wife and 9-month-old baby daughter found dead, apparently killed in their sleep at their own home. Tonight: Do we have a lead on the murder weapon? We believe it is a .22- caliber handgun. And do reports confirm Entwistle refuses to cooperate with U.S. police? They flew to Great Britain to question him. Entwistle a glaring no-show tonight at the wake for his wife and daughter, a wake that has just ended as we go to air tonight.
And buckle your seatbelts. Music icon Michael Jackson back in court for a brand-new legal battle. Michael Jackson back in court. Who`d have thunk it!

Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Tonight, Michael Jackson in a new courtroom battle over new molestation claims and even taking on the judge.

But first tonight, breaking developments in the mother/child double murder mystery. Husband and father 27-year-old Neil Entwistle named a person of interest, refuses to leave England even for the funerals of his wife and child. And tonight: Do we have the murder weapon?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE FLAHERTY, RACHEL ENTWISTLE FAMILY SPOKESMAN: The entire family is overwhelmed by the loss of Rachel and Lillian and the events of last weekend.

MARTHA COAKLEY, MIDDLESEX COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: We do not believe this was random. There was no sign of a forced entry or any sign of burglary.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, yes, a very (INAUDIBLE). Couldn`t believe it, you know? You don`t think something like this can happen here.

COAKLEY: He is somebody we would always be interested talking to, in that he`s the husband of two people who`ve been killed. There are other people that we are interested in talking to, but he is not -- I am not going to label him a suspect at this stage. Obviously, we have a high level of interest in him, but we have not reached any conclusions yet as to who did this or why.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to James Roberson, BBC correspondent, standing by in Nottingham, England. James, thank you for being with us. Bring us up to date, friend.

JAMES ROBERSON, BBC: Good evening, Nancy. Yes, this afternoon here in England -- that`s about 11:30 your time -- Neil Entwistle and his family left their home, the family home in Worksop in Nottinghamshire -- that`s a little bit north of where I am -- and they set off in the car, in the family car. They didn`t speak at all to reporters. We don`t know where they were going.

GRACE: And?

ROBERSON: The -- as I say, they spoke to nobody. But it seems that they have set off. We don`t know where they`re going. We`ve spoken to the American embassy. They don`t know where they`re going. We wondered if they were going to the airport to fly in for the funeral tomorrow, but it appears, from what we understand from the American authorities, that they`re not expected to turn up at the funeral. So it may be that they`ve gone just to get away from the heat of the media and to lie low somewhere else.

GRACE: Right now, straight to Laurel Sweet with "The Boston Herald," joining us out of Massachusetts. Laurel, bring us up to date regarding the wake and the funeral.

LAUREL SWEET, "BOSTON HERALD": Well, Nancy, Neil Entwistle was conspicuously absent this afternoon from his wife and child`s wakes in Kingston, which is on the south shore of Boston, oddly chose this time, however, to emerge from seclusion at his parents` home in England. There was about a hundred -- or hundreds of people, I should say, turned out at the wake. Media was kept very much at bay, as you can imagine. People emerging did not want to talk to reporters about the family, you know, asking still that we respect their privacy.

GRACE: Let`s take a look at the possibilities before us. Elizabeth (ph), let`s put up that plane schedule. Mr. Entwistle, if you`re looking, there`s a Lufthansa flight tonight, arrives 12:10 PM tomorrow, got Air France, British Airways, the list goes on and on. We looked up about 25 flights. You can still make it home for your wife`s funeral, Mr. Entwistle.

To Dr. Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist. Dr. Saunders, let`s just get off the law for just a moment. What does it mean to you, in a nutshell, when a man doesn`t come home to his wife and baby`s funeral?

PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: That he cares a lot more about his own state than his family. If, at the outside possibility, that this guy was so bereft that he couldn`t speak, he couldn`t move, then the family would have made a statement. His behavior is highly suspicious, Nancy.

GRACE: You are seeing video from the wake this evening, that wake for Rachel and 9-month-old Lillian Rose.

To Laurel Sweet with "The Boston Herald." What happened at tonight`s wake? Who was present?

SWEET: It was family and friends, you know, very much extended but seemingly one-sided, one family. Meanwhile, our reporter in England described Neil Entwistle as looking somber and drained.

GRACE: Here is what a family spokesperson had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FLAHERTY: The entire family is overwhelmed by the loss of Rachel and Lillian and the events of last weekend. We are also grateful for the outpouring of prayers, love and support offered by family, friends and strangers alike. The family asks for your continued prayers. They are also asking that you respect their privacy during this most difficult time. On Wednesday, we will take Rachel and Lillian to their rest.

The family has every confidence that the Middlesex district attorney`s office, Martha Coakley`s office, along with the Massachusetts State Police and the Hopkinton Police Department will solve this case and bring to justice those responsible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Back to Laurel Sweet with "The Boston Herald." Laurel, the developments today regarding the possible murder weapon -- what can you tell us about Rachel`s stepfather`s gun collection?

SWEET: Well, as much as we know right now, her stepfather is licensed. He has an active pistol permit in the town of Carver. We understand, as well, that he has a collection of guns in the house. You know...

GRACE: Well, is anything missing?

SWEET: I can tell you what I have been told all day by law enforcement officials working this case, and that`s two very simple words, No comment.

GRACE: To Gerry Leone, former prosecutor in that jurisdiction. Gerry, are cops through processing the home yet?

GERRY LEONE, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I don`t believe so Nancy. I mean, they`ve processed the home once with a search warrant. They`ve taken a lot of evidence out of that house. But as you know, oftentimes, you develop that evidence, you review it, and there`s a need to go back in and research and reanalyze the house itself.

GRACE: Question to you regarding the police failure to notice two bodies lying on the bed. Police are on the defense tonight, Gerry.

LEONE: Yes, my understanding is, during the course of the well-being search, which is a cursory search without a search warrant to check and see if there are any obvious signs of wrongdoing -- that during that very cursory search, it would not have been unusual, given the state of what was -- given the state of what was in the house, that they would have missed the bodies, if, in fact, they were there on the bed.

GRACE: Here`s what the district attorney has to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COAKLEY: This afternoon, the medical examiner completed his autopsies on Rachel and Lillian Entwistle. The cause of death to the baby, as we indicated yesterday, is, in fact, a gunshot wound to the torso. The cause of death to the mother, however, is a little bit different from the visual examination of investigators indicated, and upon autopsy, the medical examiner determined that, in fact, she also suffered a gunshot wound to the head. He indicated that he believed that bullet to her head was the cause of death.

They were both in the bed. They were obviously close to each other, if you can imagine the positioning, because the baby was in front of the mother. So again, when they were discovered, they appeared to be in bed in somewhat a natural position. They did not appear victims of violence at that time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: To defense attorney Lisa Wayne. I know the police are now saying, their public statement is that when you search a house for a safety search, you don`t have the authority to go through papers, closets and desks, and so forth. But long story short, Lisa, two bodies lying on the bed?

LISA WAYNE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, Nancy, it clearly looks like, you know, they didn`t do the right thing here. But again, I think, based upon protocol for that jurisdiction, in hindsight, we now know there were two bodies, but they were doing what they thought they should be doing and what they expected -- you know, they didn`t expect there would be a crime scene, and they completed their job.

So I think it`s hard to criticize them at this point because we now know, of course, there were two bodies. But I think they did the right thing, and they followed protocol, because you got to remember, people would be screaming if they hadn`t followed protocol and searched areas they shouldn`t be searching and looking for things without a search warrant.

GRACE: OK. Maybe my head has blown off, but Marc Mukasey, two bodies on the bed -- it`s not like they crawled under the sofa and opened up a sealed envelope for last year`s tax return. There were two bodies on the bed, dead, and they laid there for three days! Now, I certainly appreciate Lisa Wayne`s turncoat attitude tonight, being an apologist for police. I`ve never heard her do that in my life.

But to you, Marc Mukasey, let`s just get real for the viewers for a moment. This is going to be a huge issue, a huge issue if there is a trial. Explain.

MARC MUKASEY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`m with you, Nancy. We`re talking Keystone Kops here. How do you go to a search of a house and miss two dead bodies in the bed, in the master bedroom? That compromises the integrity of the entire investigation, number one. Number two, a solid defense attorney will exploit that screw-up at a trial. If you miss two dead bodies, when you actually find the two bodies, well, did you process them correctly? When you actually kept a chain of custody of evidence, did you process that correctly? It`s a domino effect, Nancy.

GRACE: Well, I see an even bigger issue, Diane Dimond, all right, because now the defense can actually argue with a straight face that the bodies weren`t there on Saturday, they weren`t there until just before police came and found them Sunday, and that would, effectively, exclude Entwistle. He was already in Great Britain on Friday.

DIANE DIMOND, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Right.

GRACE: That`s the problem.

DIMOND: And they can talk about kidnapping. They can talk about the bodies being killed someplace else, wrapped up nicely, brought back to their own beds. You know, I`m a pretty law-and-order type reporter, and I think that the police, although they`re downplaying it, really made a major mistake here, and it`s going to come back and bite them in the you-know- what.

GRACE: And look, I don`t want to see the evidence twisted and contorted to actually hide the truth from a jury. And believe me, there will be a jury in this case. In fact, more fodder -- these are video shots of the wake, the wake just ended for Rachel and little Lillian Rose before we went to air, Neil Entwistle deciding not to RSVP to either the wake or the funeral. He`s at home with his mommy and daddy in Great Britain tonight while the funerals go down here in the States.

Another issue the defense will have, if this goes to trial -- again, Neil Entwistle not an official suspect -- the house was a rental. Who had the keys, Diane?

DIMOND: Well, to me, this is a big point. They lived in that house 10 days, just 10 days. When the police came calling, the next-door neighbor let them in with the keypad. Who else -- it was a rental house, Nancy. Who else had a key to that house?

GRACE: The neighbor? What do you mean keypad?

DIMOND: There`s a keypad on the side door, maybe even the garage door...

GRACE: Security (INAUDIBLE)

DIMOND: ... -right -- to let them in a side way. And so the neighbor knew how to get into that house. And it`s not a big, palatial house, although it looks like a nice house -- going back to why in the world they didn`t go to into the bedroom and lift back the covers to find the bodies.

You know what, Nancy? Having said all that, I`m just not willing to jump in with all four feet and say that this Entwistle is a guilty party. He has acted suspiciously. I`d like to know when he went to England, why he went to England. I`d like to know where the murder weapon is. There are a lot of questions here before I point my finger at him.

GRACE: To Laurel Sweet, "Boston Herald." Did Rachel and Neil Entwistle have a dog in the home when the police got there and found the bodies?

SWEET: I`m so glad you brought that up. I wanted to make that point because this, to me, is a fascinating new wrinkle in this investigation, and I think dog lovers across the world will weigh in on this, as well. Anyone who owns a dog knows that if that dog had been in that house for -- which it appears it was, dog`s name is Sally (ph) -- for any amount of time, it was not fed, it was not let out and perhaps except for the fact that it was a bassett hound and probably couldn`t jump up on the bed, there`s no doubt in my mind would have made every effort to wake Rachel Entwistle up.

GRACE: Are we sure -- are we sure, Laurel, the dog hadn`t been -- Sally hadn`t been fed or taken out during that time? I mean, can police determine? The bowl was empty, the water was empty, the dog had poopied in the house?

SWEET: It`s to me a glaring still unanswered question about this, you know, initial wellbeing search. Would there not have been -- would the dog not have had an accident? Would that not -- have gone unnoticed?

GRACE: You know what? I just am hoping against hope that the scene was processed correctly otherwise on this very issue. And people, laugh all you want to. You two defense attorneys can laugh right into your fist all night long. But do I have to say Akita, the dog belonging to Nicole Brown Simpson? This dog`s, as prosecutors put it, mournful wail in the middle of the night set off the timeline for the death of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman, a double murder in Brentwood. And of course, Laci Peterson`s dog, McKenzie (ph), played a vital role in the prosecution of Scott Peterson, who -- PS -- is sitting tonight on San Quentin`s death row. So let`s not write Sally off the witness list just yet.

Very quickly, to tonight`s "Case Alert." Big news in the legal world today, Judge Samuel Alito confirmed to the U.S. Supreme Court. The 58-42 vote came one day after Democrats tried to block Alito`s nomination. Once again, everybody voted straight down party lines. Only one Republican, only four Democrats broke party ranks.

And in other news, ABC New anchor Bob Woodruff, photographer Doug Vogt both suffered severe head injuries in an explosion north of Baghdad. They are headed home. Woodruff briefly opened his eyes. He`s responding to stimuli. Vogt awake, in good spirits. Our prayers tonight for both.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FLAHERTY: Rachel was a wonderful wife, a daughter, granddaughter, sister and mother. She was always first to share her beliefs, her love and her support to others. She made her close friends a part of her family, and she always kept her family at the center of her life. With the birth of Rachel`s daughter, Lillian Rose Entwistle, last April, Rachel shared her greatest love, that of being a mother.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Tonight, the mystery intensifying around the death of a brand- new mom, Rachel Entwistle, and her 9-month-old baby girl, Lillian Rose. Apparently, the two in repose sleeping in their street clothes, which suggests a nap, not sleeping in their PJs. Her husband remaining overseas tonight while the wake is ongoing. Elizabeth, do we have -- there you go. Thank you.

What I`m wondering tonight, Lawrence Kobilinsky, forensic scientist joining us out of New York, is what we can learn from, for instance, the position of the body, the bedsheets, the bed coverlets, and the blood spattering, if there is any. Explain.

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, Nancy, you`re absolutely right in pointing to these different things. They were killed by gunfire, therefore, there`s back-spatter. There`s the ability to tell the position of the shooter relative to the victim, the distance between the muzzle and the target, so to speak. Gunshot residue is very important. There are a lot of different pieces here. The bullets themselves, perhaps shell casings.

And the autopsy is extremely important because then you can talk about entrance wounds and exit wounds. They may very well have not been in bed when they were shot. They may have been standing. Again, assuming the bodies weren`t cleaned up, the positioning of the blood on the bodies would reveal the position of the victims when they were shot.

GRACE: You know, it is very, very important -- to Vito Colucci, PI with Colucci Investigations. I will never forget a murder case I prosecuted, touted as a suicide. And when we put the sheets up at the crime lab to look at, we found spatter marks under the woman`s pillow, which clearly meant she was killed and then posed. You can`t have blood splatter from a gunshot wound up under a pillow. So Vito, what do you expect to gain from the crime scene?

VITO COLUCCI, PRIVATE INVESTIGATIVE: Well, I think you can gain a lot. That`s why I like what the DA is saying on this case, that they`re investigating on this. They`re not -- I think she makes a comment about, We don`t want to lead the evidence, we want the evidence to lead us. And I think they`re making a thorough check.

But that`s going to be very important, the position of the bodies, just like the good doctor just said. Were they placed here, or did this actually happen in there? But you know, if I can say one thing about the chief of police`s comments? Can I have a second to say something about what he said?

GRACE: Yes. Yes.

COLUCCI: OK. He made a comment that, When we go into a house, it`s not carte blanche to search and rifle through and look through papers.

GRACE: Which is true.

COLUCCI: Right. Ridiculous comment. I had a case like this, as a police officer. I went in and I opened the shower curtain, the dead body was in the bathtub. I was looking for a body. I`m not looking for paperwork or rifling through a closet.

GRACE: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait! I`ve been hard on police, Vito, but one thing I remember hearing, and the DA`s been tight-lipped, is that a lot of blankets had been put on top of these bodies. So I`m trying to discern what that bed looked like. Did it look like a jumble of blankets, or were there obviously two bodies lying under the bankies? I mean, it`s -- clearly, they failed in their duty. But is it as bad as we`re all making out?

COLUCCI: Yes, it is. They were planning a major party that night that was not canceled. The lights are all on. The TV is blasting. The good cop walks closer to the bed and sees -- he sees a feature of a body there. How can anybody miss that?

GRACE: OK...

COLUCCI: What is he doing?

GRACE: You`re right.

COLUCCI: (INAUDIBLE) open the door and says, Rachel, Rachel? That`s not the way to do it.

GRACE: You`re right. The cops guilty of a bad search.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s devastating to the entire community. She was on the National Honor Society. She was a peer mediator. She was a peer tutor. She was a peer counselor. She also was a stalwart on our track team.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Hey, Elizabeth, could you get me those flights one more time? To James Roberson, BBC correspondent. There`s still time for Entwistle to get out of the country and make it home for his wife`s funeral. You want to put money on that one?

ROBERSON: Well, there is, indeed. That`s absolutely right. I mean, there`s -- he`s 150 miles, where he lives in Nottinghamshire, from the airports around London, where he could fly over. But he`s only 50 to 60 miles from the Manchester airport, where he could also fly over. So there is time, indeed, for him to get there. But it`s a question, obviously, I don`t think we`ll know until we see whether he turns up, whether he`s going to turn up.

GRACE: So right now, James, you`re telling us nobody knows where he is. For all we know, he`s on the chunnel to France.

ROBERSON: He could be. He could be. The fact that he`s with his parents, I would think, probably suggests -- and because of the intense pressure -- they`ve virtually been kept almost prisoners, by the media, in their house. I would suspect that they`ve probably gone somewhere to be with friends somewhere else in Britain, just to get away from the intense pressure, to get some freedom from it.

GRACE: And to Laurel Sweet, "Boston Herald." Community reaction tonight to the wake, which, as you see, has just closed down.

SWEET: And a horrible night weather-wise. Our understanding, as well, is there is no welcome mat out for Neil Entwistle in Kingston tonight. What`s missing here, as well as a lot of answers...

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Who would have thunk Michael Jackson back in court? Diane Dimond, investigative reporter here on the set, bring us up-to-date.

DIMOND: Well, there are a lot of reasons he`s back in court right now, but one of the most compelling is this claim by a young man that he was molested by Michael Jackson when he was very, very young.

Now, the claim came up during the last trial. And, frankly, according to my law enforcement sources, they talked to this young man, a forensic investigator schooled with the Justice Department in talking to young victims, talked to him for many, many hours. And the Santa Barbara County sheriff`s department decided that this young man -- who I think that we`re not naming him -- but they decided that his claim and his mother`s claim were not worth pursuing.

So, Nancy, what do you do if you can`t get a criminal case? You go the civil route, and that`s what`s happened now. This young man and his mother have filed a civil case against Michael Jackson.

GRACE: So he is headed back to court, I believe, February the 14th?

DIMOND: Well, on paper. But try to get Michael Jackson back from overseas. He`s been living in Bahrain. I think the big news tonight is he and the prince, who have been bankrolling his lifestyle, are not getting along too well, let`s put it that way.

Several of my sources -- some very close to Michael Jackson`s family - - say that the prince and Michael Jackson have sort of gone their separate ways. He went to Germany, maybe in Venice. Some of the fan Web sites say he`s in Holland right now. I hear he may be on the way to France and maybe even trying to get some business deals, meetings set up here in New York to try to earn some sort of living for himself and his three kids.

GRACE: To Brian Oxman, he is the Jackson family attorney. Brian, welcome. What is your response to these new claims of molestation? Is Jackson going to appear in court Feb. 14?

BRIAN OXMAN, JACKSON FAMILY ATTORNEY: The 14th of February is a date for him to file his response to those particular papers. And what it is, is a very old, very stale claim by a young man who says that, through some kind of therapy -- we think it`s drugs which were utilized, but we`re not sure -- he all of a sudden remembered...

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute, wait a minute. Isn`t that some type of slander to be saying some...

OXMAN: We don`t know. It was...

GRACE: Well, to announce on national TV that this kid took drugs to get him to accuse Jackson, isn`t that a little out there?

OXMAN: We suspected during the criminal investigation that that`s what was utilized. We never got a hold of the records; we didn`t know. We do know that law enforcement didn`t like this case at all.

GRACE: You have no reason to believe this young man used drug therapy. You`re just throwing it out to a couple of hundred thousand people tonight.

OXMAN: Well, no, no. The news reports from the people who made the complaint was that there was repressed memory therapy. In the medical literature, that means the use of either hypnosis or drugs. Both of them are prohibited from being witnesses if they`re utilizing these repressed- memory therapies.

GRACE: Diane?

DIMOND: No, I had not heard about drugs being administered at all. I heard that there was a complaint. The law enforcement folks went down to L.A. They listened to the boy. They didn`t know what to make of it.

They brought him back to Santa Barbara, where he talked to this forensic investigator for several hours, who came out of the room and said, "This kid cannot get his story straight. We don`t believe him." And he was not called. He wasn`t any part of the criminal case at all.

GRACE: And, of course, Diane -- you should know Diane Dimond, investigative reporter and author of a brand-new book, "Be Careful Who You Love," all about Jackson and the trial, where he beat charges of child molestation.

OK, you know, Elizabeth, do you have that sound, that alleged phone call by Michael Jackson? OK, let`s roll that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL JACKSON, SINGER: They suck. They`re like leeches. I`m so tired of it. I`m so tired of it. They start out the most popular person in the world, make a lot of money -- big house, cars and everything -- end up with penniless. It`s a conspiracy. The Jews do it on purpose.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Mr. Oxman, did you hear that that the Jews have gotten together to frame Michael Jackson? Is that Michael Jackson`s voice?

OXMAN: It sure sounds like it, Nancy. And we`ve heard a lot of these tapes. They come through a rather spurious source, but it appears to be him.

GRACE: Wait, I thought it was Tom Sneddon? I thought he said Tom Sneddon was the bad guy, that he was trying to frame Michael Jackson, but now I guess it`s the Jews?

OXMAN: I`ve known Michael for 15 years. I am Jewish. He employs a lot of Jewish people in his business. I`ve never known him to be anti- Semitic ever.

GRACE: I take it you`re not part of the big plot by the Jews against Michael Jackson?

OXMAN: Oh, sometimes you never know, Nancy.

DIMOND: Brian, wait a minute. You say that you`ve never heard him be anti-Semitic in the past? What about those lyrics in the song that he had to change?

OXMAN: That was an interesting incident because what he was doing in that lyric, which say, "Jew me, sue me," he was also saying, "Black me, white me." It was a protest.

DIMOND: And "Don`t you kike me," as I recall.

OXMAN: And "Don`t you kike me," that`s right. It was a protest against labeling people and using these kinds of things. He wasn`t endorsing them; he was criticizing them.

DIMOND: Then why did he change it? He was...

OXMAN: Because there was a lot of criticism against him.

GRACE: Gee, I wonder why!

OXMAN: Sometimes we don`t make the best decisions and, in that basis, I think you can say that.

GRACE: Let`s get off the whole, big Jewish conspiracy to get Michael Jackson and get back to the law. Is it true -- and, before you speak, let me warn you I`ve got some documents in front of me here -- that Jackson wanted the custody judge thrown off the case? Did it have anything to do with this judge believing that Michael Jackson was, in fact, anti-Semitic?

OXMAN: You have those documents there. They were leaked to the press. And I have a very strong criticism about this. These people made a contract with themselves, the two former spouses, to have a private judge adjudicate their case in privacy and were not...

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what`s a private judge? Is that a new celebrity trend, I mean, Jessica Simpson and Nick Lachey has a private judge?

OXMAN: That`s right, yes.

GRACE: I don`t want anybody -- well, what about the old courtrooms open to the public thing? Is that just very passe?

OXMAN: When you want to resolve your disputes in privacy and you don`t want it spread all over the news media, you have a right to do that in America. The result here is that all this stuff is getting spread on the news media, and it shouldn`t be done. It is wrong.

GRACE: Will you answer the question?

OXMAN: The question is -- you`ve got those documents there, Nancy. They speak for themselves.

GRACE: OK.

OXMAN: I do not defend them. I do not comment on them because of a court order.

GRACE: All right.

To Harvey Levin, managing editor with TMZ.com, welcome back, Harvey. Long time no hear.

HARVEY LEVIN, MANAGING EDITOR, TMZ.COM: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: Harv, I`ve got these documents in my hands right here and I`m reading the request to have the judge thrown off the custody trial, the custody case. And I am referring specifically to paragraphs three through eight, which describe the judge as believing Jackson is anti-Semitic so they want him off the case.

LEVIN: Yes, it`s absolutely true. First of all, Nancy, I have to say, Brian Oxman is just dead wrong on the law here. We`re the ones that got these documents, and this wasn`t an issue of being leaked. The judge...

GRACE: Oh, so are you part of the conspiracy then to get Jackson?

LEVIN: Yes, my name is Levin, what do you think? You know, the bottom line here is that we have a legal right...

GRACE: It`s all fitting together now.

(LAUGHTER)

LEVIN: We have a legal right. And the judge ultimately gave us these documents because we`ve been pushing for it for a couple of months now.

But I just got a response, Nancy, from the judge. I got his response to this. Jackson`s lawyers were saying that he was biased -- this judge was biased against Jackson because he had made comments that Jackson was anti-Semitic, that the kingdom of Bahrain is one of the most anti-Semitic countries in the world, and he had also said that Jackson tried to use subterfuge to get passports for his children to get them out of the country.

I just got a document of this judge`s response. And it`s bizarre, Nancy. He`s saying here that, yes, he did make a comment that Jackson -- he heard Jackson was anti-Semitic and that Bahrain was anti-Israel. But he said it was all a joke in the courtroom before things started, which is kind of an odd sense of humor, don`t you think?

GRACE: Well, I`ve got to tell you something, Harvey -- and I think the lawyers on the panel will agree with me -- nothing said in the courtroom -- that`s not a place for levity. And this type of joke, as you see, has resulted in having him taken off the case.

But, you know, let`s get back to the law. We know that there are molestation allegations that require an answer in court Feb. 14. Tell me about the custody battle that Jackson is involved in right now.

LEVIN: Debbie Rowe wants to -- Debbie Rowe has filed papers saying that she believes Michael Jackson has abducted these children, essentially, by taking them out of her reach by putting them in Bahrain. She has basically asked that the judge order these kids be returned to the United States, their passports be taken away, and she`s filed for custody.

I`m not sure she really wants to get custody, but she wants access to these children. This is a raging war right now in this arbitration, and I can tell you that it`s ongoing. There`s going to be a new judge appointed, but this is extremely bitter, Nancy.

GRACE: And very quickly, before we go to break, Diane Diamond, I just happened to see an article that Michael Jackson recently has been recently spotted dressed like a Bahrainian woman with the full burqa -- there you go, there you go -- and what gave him away is the white socks and the black loafers.

DIMOND: Yes, the burqa didn`t quite reach the ground. You know, in these countries, men, when they wear robes, wear white ones. The women wear black ones.

Now, I know that Michael Jackson has a penchant for wearing black. So do I. I mean, that`s fine. But in those countries, that makes a statement. And I`m surprised that someone hasn`t whispered in his ear, "Hey, Michael, the white one, not the black one."

GRACE: Bahrain, not a good spot for cross-dressing.

DIMOND: Yes.

GRACE: We at NANCY GRACE want very much to help in our own way to solve unsolved homicides, find missing people. Take a look at 58-year-old Garpartap Singh, shot and killed December 25, 2005, Richmond, California. If you have information on this unsolved homicide, please call the Carole Sund Carrington Foundation, toll-free-, 888-813-8389.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL JACKSON, SINGER: They suck. They`re like leeches. I`m so tired of it. I`m so tired of it. They start out the most popular person in the world, make a lot of money -- big house, cars and everything -- end up with penniless. It`s a conspiracy. The Jews do it on purpose.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Brian Oxman, you said earlier that sounds a lot like your client`s voice, Michael Jackson. Is that him?

OXMAN: It appears to be him. I might add that these tapes, by the admission of the individual who released them, have been edited. So we`re not sure whether this particular portion is or is not.

But what I do know about Michael is that, for 15 years, I have been with this family. I have traveled with them to other countries. I`ve just known them. He is not anti-Semitic. He`s never done anything like this kind of thing which I`m hearing on this tape. He employs a lot of Jewish people in his business, doesn`t pay him what he should. Cheap, yes; anti- Semitic, no.

GRACE: Brian, I respect that. But I`m looking at the lyrics by Michael Jackson, "They Don`t Care about Us." That`s the song. And it says -- I almost hate to even read it out loud -- "Jew me, sue me, everybody do me, kick me, kike me."

OXMAN: "Don`t you black or white me."

GRACE: "Don`t you black or white me."

OXMAN: That`s right. It is a protest. And sometimes our protests aren`t understood the way they should be. He was saying don`t label people.

DIMOND: No, Brian, this is a song -- Brian, this is a song about Michael Jackson seeing himself as a victim.

OXMAN: Yes.

DIMOND: And this is a common theme. You know it; I know it. We heard it in the criminal trial. We`re hearing it in this custody case that Harvey Levin has uncovered here. "Everybody is making me a victim." The judge in the case is Jewish, and he`s talking about me being anti-Semitic, oh, boo-hoo. Come on!

OXMAN: Well, I have to agree with you there. I don`t think I can disagree at all. But what I am telling you is that this man is not anti- Semitic. He has never been, and it just isn`t true.

GRACE: OK, let`s get back to the court date. Can you tell me, can you bring me the latest, Brian? And I want to thank you for being with us tonight, because you`re kind of on the hot seat as a Jackson family lawyer.

OXMAN: Well, every time I come here, Nancy, it`s the hot seat.

(LAUGHTER)

GRACE: Hey, what about the Sony debt, about $200 million dollars? Wasn`t that due back in December, and he got an extension?

OXMAN: That matter is being taken care of. There are negotiations which are ongoing between all the parties...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: But why didn`t he pay it?

OXMAN: Well, I think that you have to take what`s going on there as a regular loan transaction, where the parties are satisfied what`s going on and they`re working it out.

GRACE: Brian, please. If I miss my note to the bank, we`re not going to work it out. They`ll take the apartment away. I will be on the street in a paper box, all right?

So I`m trying to find out about that $200 million he`s supposed to pay up in December. Is he selling Neverland? And what about recent allegations that all of his exotic animals have gone uncared for while he is in Bahrain?

OXMAN: The Department of Agriculture made an inspection of the ranch. They found it to be in complete order. There is no problem with the animals. He takes care of them marvelously.

As to the loan transaction, Nancy, it`s like any other business deal. People sit down at a table, they negotiate, they work it out, and that`s exactly what`s going to be happening here.

GRACE: What about the Beatles catalog? Is it up for sale?

OXMAN: Not at this moment. They`re as part of this negotiation, which is ongoing. And they`re going to be working this entire thing out.

GRACE: You know what, Brian, when I`m in trouble, will you represent me?

Lisa Wayne, did you hear those...

OXMAN: Oh, you betcha, Nancy. You are terrific.

GRACE: ... those magic words, "not at this moment"? Now, as a lawyer, Lisa, what does that say to you? When I say, "Is the Beatle catalog up for sale? Is Jackson having to sell out to hold on to Neverland?" "Not at this moment." Interpret, please.

WAYNE: Well, you know, for Brian`s sake, you know, the bottom line is he is on the hot seat. And I think that he has an obligation to shelter Michael to a certain extent.

The bottom line is what everybody is wondering, is Michael broke? Is there any more money? You know, have they filed so many lawsuits, have so many things happened here that he just doesn`t have a cent left? And that`s really the question we all have on our minds. And it might well he doesn`t have anything left.

GRACE: Take a listen to what Debbie Rowe had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEBBIE ROWE, MOTHER TO MICHAEL JACKSON`S CHILDREN: And I said, "So be a dad." And looked at me puzzled. And I said, "Let me do this. I want to do this. You`ve been so good to me. You`re such a great friend. Please, let me do this."

My kids don`t call me Mom because I don`t want them to. They`re not - - they`re Michael`s children. It`s not that they`re not my children, but I had them because I wanted him to be a father. I believe that there are people who should be parents. And he`s one of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That`s from the FOX rebuttal that aired in February 2003.

To Marc Mukasey, Marc, if she is mounting a custody battle, do you think the lawyers aren`t going to play this back in court?

MUKASEY: Nancy, I got two words for you: freak show. Now...

GRACE: Yes, don`t hold back, Marc. Is that a technical legal term? I haven`t heard that one.

MUKASEY: I`ll tell you this. On a legal footing, the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit, right here in New York, just came out with a very interesting ruling that kind of has something to do with the Michael Jackson case. They were faced with a motion to recuse a judge for being biased, much like is going on in this case. They denied it. Nancy, very many of these are filed and very few of them are granted.

GRACE: Very, very few, Marc Mukasey. I was surprised the judge agreed.

Very quickly to tonight`s "All-Points Bulletin." Police across the country on the lookout for Arthur Vitasek, wanted in connection with molestations of children in Arizona. Vitasek, possibly one of Arizona`s most prolific sex predators, 42, 6`1", 200 pounds, blonde, blue eyes.

If you have info, call the Arizona police, 480-644-2211.

Local news next for some of you, but we`ll all be right back. And remember, live coverage of a New Mexico shooting tomorrow 3:00 to 5:00 Court TV.

Please stay with us as we remember Staff Sergeant Brian McElroy, 28, an American hero.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CORETTA SCOTT KING, WIFE OF MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR.: We must make our hearts instruments of peace and nonviolence, because, when the heart is right, the mind and the body will follow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Flags at half-staff today after the passing of Coretta Scott King, widow of civil rights leader Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. After she stood shoulder-to-shoulder with Martin Luther King during the civil rights struggle, Mrs. King passed away last night in her sleep.

Coretta Scott King, 78 years old. And tonight, rest in peace.

I remember, as a first-year law student, one of the very first cases we ever learned was Brown vs. Board of Education. That case changed the course of U.S. history. That case ended, effectively, segregation in our education system and marked the beginnings of the end of segregation in this country.

It was touched off by the fight by Dr. Martin Luther King in my home, Atlanta. Alongside him, Coretta Scott King. Again tonight, rest in peace.

Thank you to all of my guests. But my biggest thank you is to you for being with us, inviting us and our legal stories into your homes.

Coming up, headlines from all around the world. I`m Nancy Grace signing off for tonight. Hope to see you right here tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern.

Goodnight, Ms. King.

And to the rest of you, until tomorrow night, goodnight, friend.

END