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American Morning

Domestic Spying Hearings Begin in Senate; Tributes Continue for Coretta Scott King; A Look at the Mohammad Cartoon Controversy

Aired February 06, 2006 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The opening bell has rungeth, or is it ringing? It already rang. It already rang. But you know what it sounds like, so do a ding for us.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Ding, ding, ding, ding!

O'BRIEN: There you go. Excellent. Thank you. The Dow Jones Industrial average starts the week at 10,793, down 58 points on Friday. You're supposed to applaud now. Excellent, well done. The bell ring. Thank you. Excellent recreation of the bell.

Right at this moment, the Senate is beginning those hearings on wiretapping without warrants. The U.S. attorney general Alberto Gonzales -- there you see Arlen Specter, chairman of the committee, who has some pointed questions prepared for Mr. Gonzales.

And it should be a rather interesting exchange of dialogue, we shall say. As we said a few moments ago with Jeff Toobin, don't expect this to come to a resolution today. You're not going to get that. But you're apt to see some fireworks.

CNN's David Ensor live now in Washington to tell us a little bit about just what we will see. David, give us a preview.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NAT'L SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, as you say, Miles, in prepared testimony for today, the attorney general calls the surveillance program reasonable and lawful. But members of the Judiciary Committee, Mr. -- Senator Specter included, are apparently disagree and the stage is set for fireworks, at least, this morning.

The administration's case for legality rests on two basic pillars. The president's inherent constitutional right to choose -- to use measures like eavesdropping against an enemy like al Qaeda. And the argument that when Congress approved the use of force after 9/11, it, in effect, authorized eavesdropping, too. Now, Chairman Specter has made it quite clear over the weekend he finds that second pillar weak.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (R), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: The authorization for the use of force doesn't say anything about electronic surveillance. The issue was never raised with the Congress. And there is a specific statute on the books, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which says flatly that you can't undertake that kind of surveillance without a court order. (END VIDEO CLIP)

ENSOR: Now, a critical part of this debate is how targeted really is the program. Over the weekend, "The Washington Post" reported that the domestic surveillance program, which the administration calls the terrorist surveillance program, has eavesdropped on thousands of Americans, using computers to sift through vast quantities of communications between this country and abroad. So that will be the focus of some of the questions, Miles.

O'BRIEN: David Ensor, who will be watching that for us on Capitol Hill as it all unfolds. As you say, we're watching it right now and we'll bring the salient parts to you as they happen -- Zain.

VERJEE: Miles, we return now to the tribute to Coretta Scott King. More than 40,000 people paying their respects this weekend. Mrs. King's body now lies in honor at Ebenezer Baptist Church, across the street from where her husband once preached. You're looking at live pictures. Many people standing there lining up to pay their respects.

Rusty Dornin is live in Atlanta. She joins us now with more. Rusty, good morning.

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Zain, yes, thousands are braving chilly, very wet weather here in Atlanta to honor what some are calling the first lady of the civil rights movement. Her body actually in Ebenezer Baptist Church. This is the church where her husband preached since 1960. And the King family had a connection here since 1894.

The body will be here from 10:00 a.m. until midnight, and then there will be a tribute across the street midday, a musical tribute to Mrs. King. Her family, her four children, spoke out publicly for the first time on Sunday about how difficult their mother's death has been.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEXTER KING, KING'S SON: ... frankly, very capable of dealing with adversity and tragedy and trauma that she really taught us how to deal with it. She was really the first example, starting really with my father's funeral and even before then when the house was bombed and Yolanda was an infant and she went out and stilled and quieted the crowd and let them know we were going to be OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DORNIN: Now, her other daughter Yolanda King will be saying some comments at the musical tribute, which is again across the street from this church. It will be about an hour long. Gladys Knight is expected to sing, as well as Stephanie Mills.

Tomorrow's funeral will not be in Atlanta, but in Lithunia (ph), where her daughter Bernice is a minister at the New Birth Missionary Baptist Church, which is a huge church, seating 10,000 people. Former presidents Carter, Clinton and Bush as well as President Bush is expected to come and deliver comments there. So it's going to be quite a funeral procession and memorial service for Mrs. King -- Zain.

VERJEE: Rusty Dornin, reporting to us from Atlanta. Thanks, Rusty.

(NEWSBREAK)

O'BRIEN: Cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammad have sparked a wave of protest and violence all across the Muslim world. Did those cartoonists cross a line?

Mike Luckovich, editorial cartoonist for the "Atlanta Journal- Constitution," joining us from CNN Center to talk about the controversy.

Mike, good to see you.

MIKE LUCKOVICH, "ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION": Good to see you, Miles.

O'BRIEN: It's interesting. On the one hand, the newspapers, the cartoonists, would tell you this is a freedom of speech issues. As a matter of fact, many papers have republished some of these cartoons which depict Mohammad and in some cases show a bomb in the turban and talking about virgins in heaven and so forth.

LUCKOVICH: Right.

O'BRIEN: As a point, to make a point about freedom of speech, do you think that's right or wrong?

LUCKOVICH: You know, first of all, let me say a good cartoon is designed to make people angry because you're trying to -- what you're trying to do is make a point and certain people are going to be upset and offended. Having said that, I think these cartoons crossed a line because it was about -- it was more about -- to me it was like a thumb in the eye to Muslims. It wasn't to make any kind of broader point, other than to just kind of belittle the Prophet Mohammad.

You know, I'm Catholic and the Catholic Church has had numerous scandals in the past, the pedophilia scandal. And I've hit the Catholic Church repeatedly for that. But I never gone after -- I've never gone after the savior Jesus Christ or I would never go after the Prophet Mohammad or any religion's diety. That's just -- you're just looking -- you're just looking for trouble. If you wanted to make point, you can do it in other ways.

O'BRIEN: OK. But here's the tricky part about when you talk about freedom of speech. Who draws that line? And when you say that's inappropriate, somebody might say, well, but you're impinging upon my rights to make the statement, right?

LUCKOVICH: Yes, yes, but you know what, you don't yell fire in a crowded theater. And you do not -- that's my rule of thumb. Don't yell fire in a crowded theater, don't put a turban shaped like a bomb on the Prophet Mohammad's head. That should be the rule. You know, freedom of speech is one thing, but you know it's -- you have to be responsible with freedom of speech, just like anything else.

And if it's just to tick people off, then I think that you need to -- you have the responsibility to not do that. And I think that the cartoonists are somewhat to blame. I think the main blame goes to the Danish editor who commissioned the cartoonist to do these depictions of Mohammad.

O'BRIEN: Let's go through a few of your cartoons, which skated right to the edge of the line. This first one is applicable to what we're talking about right now and could have caused great offense to the Muslim world, as well. It's an airplane that says Islamic terrorists on it and it's flying right to the Holy Koran, which in many respects every bit as sacred as depictions of the Prophet Mohammad. I suspect you heard a lot on this. And how does this fall within the boundaries, do you think?

LUCKOVICH: See, I did this three or four days after 9/11. And rather than demeaning the Koran, that cartoon was showing how the Islamic terrorists are demeaning the Koran. And so I think that -- I didn't hear much criticism about this cartoon...

O'BRIEN: Really?

LUCKOVICH: Because people tended to understand what I was trying to say, but it wasn't about demeaning Muslims or their faith. It was trying to show how the Islamic terrorists have perverted the Koran for their own ends.

O'BRIEN: All right, let's go to the next cartoon you wanted to share with us. This one is Pat Robertson in a shirt. That's very funny.

LUCKOVICH: Right.

O'BRIEN: "Who would Jesus assassinate," referring to some of his rather off-the-wall statements. And because I want to get the last one in, because we can sort of talk about these two together. Let's show the next one.

LUCKOVICH: OK, right.

O'BRIEN: And this is one priest is holding a newspaper, saying the Vatican is trying to -- I can't read it right now.

LUCKOVICH: Ban homosexual priests, right.

O'BRIEN: And he says, does this make me look gay?

LUCKOVICH: Right. Right.

O'BRIEN: In both of those cases...

LUCKOVICH: You don't think that's poking an eye -- or putting your thumb in the eye of religion? O'BRIEN: No. You know, it in some ways, because religion is made up of human beings, and I'm poking my thumb in the eye of the human beings who are, I think, making a mistake in the case of a homosexual priests. Who cares whether they're homosexual? In the case of Pat Robertson, you know, he's a nut. And so I'm trying to show that with my cartoons. But I'm not criticizing Jesus Christ or a deities here. I'm criticizing the humans that are administrating the religions. And I think that's the difference.

O'BRIEN: So in your case, when you say nothing is sacred, that's not true. There are things that truly are sacred.

LUCKOVICH: You know, I think so. You know, I hate to say that, because cartoonists, as I said earlier, we enjoy ticking people off. But in order to be good at what we do, we have to pick and choose our targets and do it in an intelligent way, although I think it's good that we come right up to the line when we're doing it. We need to be edgy. That's how we keep people's attention.

O'BRIEN: Edgy it is. Mike Luckovich, always a pleasure. Thanks for dropping by.

LUCKOVICH: Thank you, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Cartoonist for the "Atlanta-Journal Constitution."

(WEATHER REPORT)

VERJEE: Andy is "Minding Your Business" just ahead. Andy, what's coming up?

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Zain, the greatest rock 'n' roll car museum ever. And we have pictures.

Stay tuned to AMERICAN MORNING, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: All right. Cars of rock 'n' roll.

SERWER: Is that my cue?

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: Start it up, will you, Andy?

SERWER: OK, let's go to the markets, though, first of all, see how stocks are faring this hour. Go to the Big Board, up 11 points on the Dow. GM and Disney are active this morning.

Rupert Murdoch saying in "Newsweek" magazine, an issue just out, that he is going to open up his business network, which would compete against CNBC.

We ready for some competition here people? We're always ready for some competition. O'BRIEN: We don't have a business channel.

SERWER: We did. Was had one which closed down in December '04. That would be CNNfn.

O'BRIEN: Right.

SERWER: Now let's go straight to Los Angeles, where this Saturday will be an exhibit of the cars of rock 'n' roll at the Peterson Automotive Museum in case you've never been there before. I haven't, but these look pretty cool. They are some of the cars that will be on display, and they're bad. They're bad to the bone.

We start with the Ford Phantom. This is David Lee Roth's favorite from Van Halen's video "Hot for Teacher." Now what I want you to notice here is how the cars seem to resemble the people, much like dogs resemble their owner. David Lee Roth's "Hot for Teacher."

Let's go on to Elton John -- no, this is Elvis who's next.

O'BRIEN: That's an Elvis car.

SERWER: This car actually has bullet holes. He got ticked off at this car at one point.

VERJEE: Where are they?

SERWER: There are bullet holes in the interior, not on the exterior, Zain.

O'BRIEN: He shot his car.

SERWER: He tried to kill it.

Next we go on to Elton John's Dellahey (ph) Cabriolet. See, this is Elton John's car.

O'BRIEN: That has Elton John written all over it.

SERWER: Dellahey Cabriolet.

Now let's go to the Cad-zilla, ZZ Top. You can fit your beard right behind that dashboard.

And finally, Marilyn Manson. Couldn't you see just he, she, them, riding around in that Lincoln Continental, Marilyn Manson mobile -- sick.

VERJEE: That's ill, man.

O'BRIEN: Is it open? Can we go see these cars?

SERWER: On Saturday.

O'BRIEN: Saturday it opens up?

SERWER: Yes. It will be a lot of fun.

VERJEE: Andy, thank you.

SERWER: Thank you.

VERJEE: Still to come, he is hip hop royalty, but the man known simply as "Diddy"...

SERWER: No 'P.'

VERJEE: No 'P,' just Diddy. And maybe one day we'll just have "Did," he's far from over from being a one-hit wonder. We'll show you what he's got up his sleeve.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VERJEE: You're looking at live pictures on Capitol Hill. This is Senator Patrick Leahy speaking at the Senate Judiciary Committee. They will be discussing the controversial domestic spying program. The Attorney General Alberto Gonzales is expected to make his statement and presentation shortly and we'll bring that to you live when it happens.

But first, it's fashion week in New York, the week when designers show off all their latest collections, which will eventually make their way to a mall near you. And one of the country's leading designers is making headlines again.

AMERICAN MORNING's Alina Cho joins us now with more on that.

So Diddy, or Puff Daddy, P. Diddy, Diddy. What's with the, you know -- what's with the evolution of this thing?

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there certainly has been an evolution in his name, but an evolution in his career, as well. You know, it may seem like Sean Combs is everywhere these days, doing almost everything. And in some ways, he is. But he doesn't necessarily see that it way. The man fans now call "Diddy" says whether he's making music, clothing or even perfume, it's all about entertainment.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHO (voice-over): With just a puff, Sean Combs is back in the spotlight. Not that he ever left. The rapper-turned-music producer- turned clothing designer now has a new scent, a fragrance for men called "Unforgivable."

SEAN COMBS, "DIDDY": Once you get your own fragrance, it's a true testament that you have now arrived.

CHO: He has come a long way. In 2001, Combs was acquitted of gun possession and bribery charges after a shooting at a New York nightclub. Back then, fans called him Puff Daddy. When he morphed into a clothing designer, fashion insiders scoffed. His label, Sean John, didn't get respect until the industry recognized him in 2004.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The men's wear designer of the year is Sean Combs.

CHO: A year later, Sean, a woman's line was born.

COMBS: Yes. I want you to have a nice sexy top to go out in.

CHO (on camera): So who is the Sean John man?

COMBS: I think the Sean John man is somebody that has a lot of confidence. Today's modern men, they have to be able to go from the block to the boardroom.

CHO (voice-over): Combs admits the Sean John man is also himself.

JOHN DEMSEY, ESTEE LAUDER PRESIDENT: He's today's urban Ralph Lauren. He started off doing something very simple and expanded upon the way he understood hip hop.

CHO: From music to clothing to politics. He ran a marathon, acted in movies, even starred on Broadway.

COMBS: And I say hello, Jefferson. How are you this evening?

I definitely take pride on being an Afro-American and opening a lot of doors and showing that it can be done.

CHO: Just this Sunday, he was also in a Super Bowl ad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Diddy!

CHO (on camera): How did you go from Puff Daddy to Diddy?

COMBS: The name thing is probably one of the things that, you know, has spun out of control. Because I've gone through so many different phases in my life that it is, in a way, symbolic.

CHO (voice-over): Diddy wouldn't be Diddy without a little controversy. Some have called the ads for his new fragrance too edgy. Combs stands by them.

(on camera): Nice.

(voice-over): And the man "Forbes" magazine says is worth $250 million isn't satisfied yet with his success.

COMBS: I have a lot of potential.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHO: You think? Some might say he's already made it and he's just 36 years old, if you can believe it. He is not done yet, either. Combs has a new album coming out. He's also focusing on his acting career a little bit more. And one thing he told me is that although he has learned from his mistakes over the years, he is a bad boy for life and that, Zain, he says is part of his charm.

VERJEE: How has he been able to be so successful in so many different things?

CHO: Well, you know, a lot of friends and associates we spoke to say what surprises them most about him is that he is so detail- oriented. They joked over at Estee Lauder...

VERJEE: Detail-oriented?

CHO: Yes, very much so. He says you have to give it 150 percent, not just 100 percent. But they joked over at Estee Lauder when they were making his fragrance that they went over 666 test fragrances over the course of the year to come up with the real one.

VERJEE: Six-six-six?

CHO: Six-six-six. Take what you will about that. But it is -- you know, he was very, very detail-oriented about everything. He controls his image, and that's part of the reason why he's been so successful.

VERJEE: Regardless of how his name evolves, he's certainly been successful.

CHO: He certainly has.

VERJEE: Alina Cho, thank you so much.

AMERICAN MORNING is back in a moment. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Mariah Carey! She is back. What a comeback. She's nominated for how many Grammys? A bunch, right?

VERJEE: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Six, eight, ten.

VERJEE: A few.

O'BRIEN: But anyway, she -- you know, she was on a roll and then she wasn't, now she is. And we in America love stories like this. So tomorrow, we're going to tell you all about it, as Mariah Carey is on a roll.

VERJEE: That's all, though, from us here on AMERICAN MORNING. Daryn Kagan's at CNN Center.

O'BRIEN: Hello, Daryn, good morning to you.

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