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American Morning

Cartoon Outrage; Church Fires; Minding Your Business; Managing Depression

Aired February 09, 2006 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: You're watching AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Miles O'Brien.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm Zain Verjee in for Soledad.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Miles O'Brien. We're glad you're with us this morning on this AMERICAN MORNING.

Let's get to Carol Costello who's looking at some headlines for us in the newsroom.

Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I am, indeed. Good morning, Miles.

Good morning to all of you.

A Shiite Muslim holiday marched by a suicide bomb in Pakistan. At least 15 are dead this morning. I happened during a procession in Northwest Pakistan. There's been no claim of responsibility.

A somewhat more peaceful scene in Baghdad, despite the swords you see here. Tens of thousands of Shiite Muslims marking the death of the Prophet Muhammad's grandson. In the days of Saddam Hussein, this type of Ashure (ph) procession would not have be allowed.

U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales back in the hot seat over domestic spying. The attorney general expected to give some classified details about the Bush administration's eavesdropping program. He'll head before the Senate Intelligence Committee in the next hour. The move comes after the White House changed course and agreed to give details but only behind closed doors.

Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay is down but certainly not out. He has been named to sit on the Appropriations Committee. DeLay, as you know, has been indicted on campaign fund-raising charges. One lawmaker says, "allowing Tom DeLay to sit on a committee in charge of giving out money is like putting Michael Brown back in charge of FEMA."

A black eye for the sport of hockey. Wayne Gretzky's assistant coach for the Coyote is now on leave after being named in a gambling scheme. Authorities say Rick Tocchet helped bankroll the gambling ring, which apparently took in more than $1.7 million in bets. Gretzky's wife has even been implicated as one of the people who placed bets. So far no current NHL players have been named.

And from the wonder dog file, when Belle's master had a seizure, the beagle sprung into action. She's trained to bite down on a cell phone, holding the nine button. It automatically dials 911. The dog then howled into the receiver until help arrived. Belle's owner is diabetic and had the pooch trained to sniff out seizures. The training cost almost $9,000, but her owner says oh it was well worth it. So, hey, way to go Belle.

MILES O'BRIEN: That is a fine dog.

VERJEE: It is. We've got dogs calling 911. We've got cats going undercover as detectives. You know, although I understand that the particular cat did get authority legally to do wiretapping. So, you know . . .

MILES O'BRIEN: That's, you know.

VERJEE: That's detective . . .

MILES O'BRIEN: Fully equipped cat.

All right. Thank you very much, Carol. See you in just a little bit.

President Bush taking aim this morning at the Iraq insurgency and terrorism worldwide. He's going to go to the National Guard Memorial Building in Washington for a speech. It begins in just a little while. Actually a little before 10:00 Eastern. The speech comes at a time when much of the Middle East, of course, is still embroiled in that controversy which was set off by those cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad.

Let's get to Suzanne Malveaux now at the White House and she'll set the stage for the speech for us today.

Suzanne, good morning.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, Miles.

We understand the president, of course, is going to be talking about the fight in the global war on terror. Also, perhaps, disrupted terror plots as well. Now, at the same time, of course, there's this whole cartoon controversy. And the back story of this, Miles, is that White House and State Department officials I spoke with say they weren't satisfied with the stories that were coming out late last week essentially felt, administration sources, that their statements had been misconstrued. That somehow Denmark was to blame. The White House wants to make it very clear that that's not the case.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I call upon the governments around the world to stop the violence.

MALVEAUX, (voice over): Backing him, the president's powerful Middle Eastern ally, Jordan's King Abdullah.

KING ABDULLAH, JORDAN: Anything that vilifies the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, or attacks Muslim sensibilities, I believes needs to be condemned. But at the same time, those that want to protest should do it thoughtfully, articulately.

MALVEAUX: Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice accused America's foes of deliberately stoking the controversy.

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: Iran and Syria have gone out of their way to inflame sentiments and to use this to their own purposes. And the world ought to call them on it.

MALVEAUX: The outrage over the Muhammad cartoon, first published in the Danish media, is admittedly a sensitive issue, Mr. Bush said.

BUSH: We believe in a free press. We also recognize that with freedom comes responsibilities.

MALVEAUX: Saturday, when Muslim protesters set the Danish and Norwegian embassies on fire in Syria, the White House issued a carefully crafted statement, expressing solidarity with Denmark and our European allies in opposition to the outrageous acts. But Monday the president's spokesman made a point to recognize the protesters' concerns.

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We understand fully why Muslims find the cartoons offensive.

MALVEAUX: In the same statement, the administration also condemned offensive Arab media.

MCCLELLAN: Cartoons and articles that frequently have appeared in the Arab world espousing anti-Semitic and anti-Christian views.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: And, Miles, on Tuesday, the president also called Rasmussen, the prime minister of Denmark, to express his support. At the same time, he says that he is quite pleased -- many officials believing that they're quite pleased with the Middle Eastern allies express of support as well from Egypt, Jordan as well.

Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN: Suzanne Malveaux at the White House, thank you very much.

And be sure to stay with CNN for coverage of the president's comments this morning on the global war on terror. As we say, that begins at 9:55 Eastern Time right here on CNN.

Zain.

VERJEE: Miles, who's been setting fire to churches in Alabama and why? Federal and state investigators say nine fires appear to be linked. They've ruled arson in five Baptist church fires on Friday near Birmingham. Four more church fires on Tuesday had similar patterns. Forensic Psychologist N.G. Berrill joins us now to talk a little bit about potential motives.

Dr. Berrill, what do you think they could be?

N.G. BERRILL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, you know, two ideas emerge. One is that, you know, arsonists, perhaps in general, just love fire. They love the power, the theater associated with fire. However, given the fact that these fires are directed specifically at Baptist churches, one has to consider the possibility that the arsonist has a specific and direct relationship perhaps even with the Baptist faith.

VERJEE: What kind of clues would investigators be searching for that could point to this sort of psychological profile of an arsonist?

BERRILL: Well, they're going to look at how the fires are started. They're going to look for any communications that might be left specifically, consciously or inadvertently at the scenes of the crime.

VERJEE: Authorities say that several of the fires were started in the center of the church or in the pulpit area. Is that of significance to you? How do you think that plays psychologically?

BERRILL: Well, it might. For example, if we go with the idea of the hypothesis that this is someone who's very angry at the church. Someone who perhaps . . .

VERJEE: Or a group of people.

BERRILL: A group of people, maybe in the past year, year and a half, suffered some type of tragedy, felt that their religion let them down, maybe they want to strike right at the heart of the church, right in the center where the sermons are being issued, right on the pulpit.

VERJEE: Because, you know, a church is so symbolic of a community.

BERRILL: Sure.

VERJEE: And, you know, psychologically, one could argue that, you know, that directing their anger or whoever the perpetrators may be toward a symbol of a community, sort of lashing out that way.

BERRILL: Well, yes, it's a very loud communication. I mean if it's rage, if it's pain, if it's grief in some perverse way, you know, right in the center of the church, right where, you know, you hear the gospel, I mean, I think it may have significance.

VERJEE: What about copycats? Is there a danger of that?

BERRILL: There always is a bit, but I suspect in this case that this is probably the work of one person and one person with an agenda. VERJEE: Arsonists who have been captured, what have we been able to learn from them? What have they said about what their motives have been? How could that inform this case?

BERRILL: Well, I mean quite often, if there's not a specific agenda, that is to say a political statement is being made or a racial statement, it's a love -- it's a perverse love of fire. It's the drama, the majesty, the excitement, and, you know, it's difficult given the fact pattern of this case, at least, to imagine that that's exactly what's going on here. One suspects it's something else.

VERJEE: Would that perverse enjoyment translate into an arsonist wanting to stay around, stick around and watch the fire? You know we've had so many reports among which, you know, two white men in a dark SUV and various other things. But would an arsonist want to watch?

BERRILL: Many arsonists do. I mean if it's not a political or personal agenda, it's indeed the issue of the fire itself. Yes, you know, there are a lot of cases where the person has an intimate involvement with fire. They know about fire. Fire fighting sometimes. And they like to watch the whole thing unravel. They love the commotion, the trucks arriving, all the sounds and, you know, as I said, the theater of the thing.

VERJEE: In cases like this, how successful is psychological profiling in ultimately capturing an arsonist?

BERRILL: Well, I think they're going to deal with material evidence first. But then, as they get closer and closer and they have a few people in mind, they're going to have to look at the backgrounds of these individuals, look at prior arrests for fire and/or, you know, if the hypothesis is correct, someone who may have suffered a tragic loss, perhaps a Baptist himself, and they're going to have to work that profile up and see if this is really sort of a personal statement about loss.

VERJEE: Dr. N.G. Berrill, thank you so much for giving us your take on this.

BERRILL: Sure.

VERJEE: Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN: Let's get another check of the weather. Chad Myers at the CNN Center with that.

Hello, Chad.

(WEATHER REPORT)

MILES O'BRIEN: All right, Andy, "Minding Your Business" today.

ANDY SERWER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I am.

MILES O'BRIEN: What, was it, I wake you up? VERJEE: You look surprised.

SERWER: I almost forgot. Yes, almost forgot there.

MILES O'BRIEN: Did I awaken you?

SERWER: No, not at all.

MILES O'BRIEN: You were just hanging out on the set wondering, oh, gosh, do I get to be on TV?

SERWER: Yes, I have a job to do here.

Yes, a couple of red hot companies to tell you about. One makes a product almost as old as man. The other, on the cutting edge. Stay tuned for that coming up on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MILES O'BRIEN: So, what do you suppose does Joe Pesci, on his birthday, does he dance? You know what I mean, dance.

SERWER: No, he makes the guy who delivers the (INAUDIBLE) dance.

MILES O'BRIEN: Oh, yes, that's right, you dance. Dance.

VERJEE: That woke us up.

MILES O'BRIEN: You bloody, bloody, bloody. I can't -- it's cable, I could do that.

SERWER: No.

MILES O'BRIEN: But it would be my last day on the program.

SERWER: Let Joe Pesci do that.

VERJEE: We like you here.

MILES O'BRIEN: I've got kids. Got the mortgages. Got Pesci.

SERWER: Leave it to Joe Pesci.

VERJEE: A hot new stock is off and running on Wall Street, plus an Internet phone company has got some news as well. And a hot pair of shoes as well.

SERWER: Hot shoes.

VERJEE: Hot shoes. Crocs. They're making them up. Lots of different colors. Very funky.

SERWER: They're very cool. Right. Do you know about these things. They're -- mostly kids wear Crocs, I guess. They're kids shoes. And a very, very successful company. Look at those.

MILES O'BRIEN: But moms like them, too.

SERWER: Kids love these things.

VERJEE: They're not made out of rubber, right?

MILES O'BRIEN: Yes, they're plastic.

SERWER: They're made out of resin.

VERJEE: They're not (INAUDIBLE), no, they're not plastic.

MILES O'BRIEN: Plastic.

SERWER: What is it (INAUDIBLE).

MILES O'BRIEN: Or whatever.

VERJEE: PCCP. I read that.

SERWER: Which is resin. Yes.

The company went public yesterday. The stock was a smash hit, up 36 percent. This is a very new company. They sold 4.4 million of these shoes, though, just in the first nine months of last year. So really a smash hit. The company's based out of Niwot, Colorado.

MILES O'BRIEN: Is it called the Croc company?

SERWER: It's called Crocs.

MILES O'BRIEN: OK. Now they're about 20 some-odd bucks a pair, right?

SERWER: Yes.

MILES O'BRIEN: And they cost about, what, 10 cents to make, right?

SERWER: That would be a good estimate.

MILES O'BRIEN: I would say that's a good company to invest in.

SERWER: Can you say markup?

MILES O'BRIEN: Can you say markup? Wow.

SERWER: Just unbelievable stuff there watching that go on. That was a big one yesterday. And it was the biggest shoe IPO ever, if you can imagine.

MILES O'BRIEN: Wow.

SERWER: Like Converse and K Suisse were some other ones.

MILES O'BRIEN: Really? SERWER: Now another hot company, Vonage, which is the Internet phone company. They've filed to go public. And this could be a biggie as well. Looking to raise $250 million.

Now this is a money losing business. They lost $190 million recently. They have 1.4 million subscribers. That's less shoes than Crocs sold, by the way, right? And this is a business with a lot of promise but a lot of competition. You know, making phone calls over the Internet.

First of all, the regular phone companies like Verizon and AT&T are in this business, actually. You have to cannibalize yourself or someone else will. And, of course, there's other competitors like Skipe (ph) and, of course, Time Warner, our parent company, and Comcast. They have these businesses as well. Great to be a customer here. Maybe not an investor.

MILES O'BRIEN: It's a tough one.

SERWER: Yes.

MILES O'BRIEN: It's a tough one.

Now, Andy, a little while ago when you came on you were expressing some desire to be like Sly.

SERWER: Hmm. Wow.

MILES O'BRIEN: To be like Sly, right?

VERJEE: Be like Sly.

MILES O'BRIEN: So Sly came on last night, Sly Stone, with the mohawk.

SERWER: Yes.

MILES O'BRIEN: And I said, you know, Andy, you'd look good in a mohawk.

SERWER: I would.

MILES O'BRIEN: So we did some work.

SERWER: Oh, no. Oh, yes, in the neighborhood.

MILES O'BRIEN: I think that's . . .

VERJEE: I like it.

SERWER: And you know what -- you know what, I just want to be normal. I really do. That's a wonderful picture.

MILES O'BRIEN: I would say, you'll have some hot fun in the summertime with that outfit.

SERWER: Yes.

VERJEE: It really brings out your features, you know. I mean, really.

SERWER: Guys, I want to take you higher, right.

VERJEE: You come out in that.

SERWER: Thank you. Thank you, Zain.

VERJEE: You're welcome.

SERWER: And thank you for doing that. That was a wonderful thing.

MILES O'BRIEN: Cutting through the clutter once again.

VERJEE: It's you.

MILES O'BRIEN: All right. Coming up, some evangelical groups are taking on a surprising new issue that pits them against the White House. It's causing controversy among Christians. And the whole issue is global warming, of all things.

And next, we'll talk to supermodel Emme. She seemed to have it all, but her life sort of unraveled when her husband fell into a deep depression. We'll talk about her amazing story and her family's story next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Supermodel and talk show host Emme had the world at her fingertips, great career, beautiful baby girl, wonderful husband. Then four years ago her life was put on hold as her husband, Phillip Aronson, plunged into a deep depression, one that was so severe he even tried to kill himself. Today Phil is better thanks to a controversial treatment. He and Emme have written a book about their experience. It's called "Morning Has Broken: A Couple's Journey Through Depression." And they join us this morning.

It's nice to see you. Always wonderful to catch up with you. And so great. I mean this is a book that, for me, was a page turner. I took it on vacation a couple of weeks ago and, gosh, it's a tough story. You alternate voices.

EMME, SUPERMODEL: Yes.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: One back and forth. And the story is a toughie. The cliche, you have everything, wonderful marriage . . .

EMME: We're happy.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Handsome husband, lovely baby, healthy baby, your perfectly happy and then the wheels kind of fall off. Was there any warning at all?

EMME: He had a problem with lower groin pain.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Horrible chronic pain the way you describe it in your chapter on this and that was almost like the trigger.

PHILLIP ARONSON, AUTHOR "MORNING HAS BROKEN": Yes, it was. I had excruciating pain . . .

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: All the time.

ARONSON: In my pelvic region. Burning all the time. I wasn't able to sleep, so I was suffering from sleep deprivation. At this point, we were seeking doctors and advice. And over a period of four months, we're still trying to figure out what I had, but we didn't manage the pain. That was the problem because the pain, it just threw me right into a depression.

EMME: That was the problem.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: The depression was so bad, as you mentioned, you tried to kill yourself.

ARONSON: Yes.

EMME: Right.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: And the story of how you managed or sort of didn't manage at times . . .

EMME: Yes.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Is absolutely riveting. Because, again, you've got this baby who needs you. You write about how one day you're talking to Phil and I guess Toby had fallen. Kind of whomped herself on the chair.

EMME: Yes. Yes.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Kind of typical toddler stuff.

EMME: Right.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: And you were so concerned because Phil had no reaction to it.

EMME: He didn't react.

ARONSON: I didn't know what to do. I remember Emme asking me at one point, if the house were on fire, would you be able to save your daughter? And I said, Emme, I don't think I'd be able to save myself.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: And you were the one kind of holding up everything.

EMME: Trying to.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: You know, but you . . . EMME: I laugh now, but I certainly wasn't laughing back then.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: And you're not laughing in the book.

EMME: No.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: I mean you were nasty at times.

EMME: Yes.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Brutal at times. I mean you were pretty straightforward about it in this book.

EMME: Yes.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Because it was tough on you.

EMME: It's truth.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: It's not a sugar coating of . . .

ARONSON: No.

EMME: No, no.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Of what it's like to be the partner of somebody who has a horrible illness.

EMME: We really wanted to let people know and to kind of brush off the mystery on depression and what happens within the household. I mean why else would we want to come out and talk about something as personal as this? I was being dragged to the plate to do this. But after we wrote the book, we realized how much it brought us together to talk about the details instead of just moving forward, OK, let's get going on with our life.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Electro . . .

ARONSON: Electro convulsive therapy.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Convulsive therapy is what worked for you, along with a lot of other things.

ARONSON: Yes.

EMME: Yes.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: I mean the book really goes through the litany.

EMME: Therapy, medicines.

ARONSON: ECT's usually like the last resort. And at that point I had tried pretty much every antidepressant and I was ready to try whatever it was to get me better.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: And you felt -- did you feel that you were getting better? I mean, could you feel the sort of the fog lifting from you?

ARONSON: Yes, it definitely lifted after awhile. But . . .

EMME: Patience is the key in this.

ARONSON: Yes. When I tried to take my life, that morning, when I was awakened in the hospital, that was the first time where I was like, wow, you can't go any lower than that. And suicide is a permanent solution to what is really a temporary problem. So I said, Emme, listen, you need to write this book but I can't do it without you. And the only way that I can justify having been as ill as I was is that I want to turn it around and help other people.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: You guys talk a lot about that in the book, too.

EMME: Yes.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: I man, you're not doctors. You don't pretend to be doctors.

ARONSON: No.

EMME: Oh, no.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: But it was a personal -- it is such a moving book and thank God I have never had that experience of depression in my family, and I hope I never do. But, boy, for people who are so -- it is a fantastic book.

EMME: And people have a problem with insurance and moneys and meds. If you need meds to get out of this. So hopefully we can try and shed some light to get some changes.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: It's a wonderful book, "Morning Has Broken."

EMME: Thank you so much, Soledad.

ARONSON: Thank you.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Thank you for talking with us about it.

ARONSON: Thank you, Soledad.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: We certainly appreciate it.

Emme and Phillip Aronson joining us this morning.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MILES O'BRIEN: All right. Soledad O'Brien, who's off for a little while, left us that one.

In a moment, today's top stories, including the surprising new issue that has some evangelical groups at odds with the White House. The issue is global warming. Why are they weighing in on this one? Plus, more and more women are trying to get pregnant as they get older. And the older they are, the tougher it is. That's not exactly a news flash. We'll look at the challenges they face, though, in our series for people in their 30s, 40s and 50s. That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MILES O'BRIEN: Good morning. I'm Miles O'Brien.

VERJEE: I'm Zain Verjee in for Soledad.

MILES O'BRIEN: Emotions are running high already in the Muslim world. Those cartoons, of course. The question is, will all that unrest spill over into what are emotional ceremonies related to a religious festival. We're live in Baghdad for more on that.

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