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American Morning

Tell-All Testimony From Former FEMA Director Michael Brown?; CIA Leak Investigation; Alabama Church Fires

Aired February 10, 2006 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm Miles O'Brien.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Zain Verjee, in for Soledad.

O'BRIEN: The follies of FEMA in focus again today. The former director of the agency, Mike Brown, speaking to Congress, and he may have some folks at the White House a little on edge. We're live in Washington.

Did a White House aide get the green light to spill a secret? And is the vice president involved? More on the Scooter Libby case as well.

VERJEE: Investigators may have a break in the Alabama church fires case. We're live in Alabama.

The Olympics just getting under way, and already there's controversy involving the U.S. ski team. Live to Torino for that.

And this...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WAYNE GRETZKY, FMR. HOCKEY PLAYER: It didn't happen. It's not going to happen. It hasn't happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VERJEE: Hockey legend Wayne Gretzky defends himself in the gambling controversy, but it's his wife's alleged habits that could put him on thin ice.

O'BRIEN: The man at the helm of FEMA during Hurricane Katrina will face a new round of questions today on Capitol Hill, but we may hear some very different answers from Michael Brown this time around.

CNN National Security Correspondent Jeanne Meserve live now in Washington with a preview for us.

Hello, Jeanne.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Miles.

And some strong words from some people on the panel. The ranking Democrat on the committee investigating Katrina, Senator Joseph Lieberman, says it is inexplicable that federal officials say they weren't aware of flooding until Tuesday when his staff has compiled 30 official communications made Monday talking about the dire situation. The first at 830 in the morning.

Expect Michael Brown to be asked today about what he knew and when and who he told.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRES. OF THE UNITED STATES: Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job!

MESERVE (voice over): But the dismal government response to Katrina, Michael Brown's failure to grasp the situation around him, the "devil may care" tone of his e-mails eventually made him a punch line and a punching bag.

MICHAEL BROWN, FMR. FEMA DIR.: What would you like for me to do, Congressman?

REP. CHRISTOPHER SHAYS (R), CONNECTICUT: Well, that's why I'm happy you left, because that kind of, you know, look in the lights like a deer tells me that you weren't capable to do the job.

MESERVE: Initially, a defiant Brown put much of the blame on local and state officials, but eventually he came to accept some responsibility.

BROWN: I made two mistakes, two very -- I probably made lots of mistakes. But I want to focus on two mistakes today.

MESERVE: Since Brown left FEMA to start a consulting business, more facts have emerged.

SEN. JOE LIEBERMAN (D), CONNECTICUT: I'll tell you what my impressions are at this point in our investigation, that Michael Brown, head of FEMA, was at fault, but he was not the only one at fault. That what we find is, unfortunately, a comprehensive pattern of a failure to prepare.

MESERVE: Until now, Brown has followed White House instructions that he not answer congressional inquiries about his communications with top White House officials about Katrina. But his lawyer says unless he hears from the White House, that will change today.

ANDY LESTER, BROWN'S ATTY.: He would love to be able to answer all questions as fully, completely, and accurately as possible. He would like that information to get out. We believe that the public ought to know the facts and, frankly, we believe that the facts will vindicate him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MESERVE: How much will Mike Brown reveal? We'll know shortly. The hearing begins in just half an hour.

Miles, back to you. O'BRIEN: And of course we know Jeanne Meserve is our homeland security correspondent.

I apologize, Jeanne, and I apologize to David Ensor, who is our national security correspondent.

Thank you, Jeanne.

And she'll be with us every step of the way as this testimony begins. It should happen in a little less than a half-hour. And of course we'll bring it to you live when it happens. So stay with us right here on CNN -- Zain.

VERJEE: Miles, the latest leak in the CIA leak case, a letter claiming that the White House said it was OK to leak secrets to the press. The special prosecutor says Vice President Cheney's chief of staff, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, testified that higher-ups authorized him to discuss classified intelligence.

CNN's John King has a copy of the letter.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: In this letter that is now part of the court record, the special prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, says that Libby testified under oath to the grand jury that as part of making the case for war in Iraq he disclosed to reporters material from the CIA's highly classified National Intelligence Estimate of Iraq's weapons program. We also note Fitzgerald went on to say in that letter last month that it is our understanding that Mr. Libby testified that he was "authorized to disclose information about the NIE to the press by his superiors."

Now, the pretrial back and forth between the prosecution and the defense has been tense, to say the least. And what Fitzgerald is doing here is serving notice. He plans to introduce that testimony at trial to show that Libby had a history of discussing classified information with reporters, a critical background, the prosecutors says, to help him make the case that Libby lied to both the grand jury and the FBI about how and when he learned the wife of administration Iraq critic Joe Wilson worked for the CIA, and lied, the prosecutor says, about his conversations with reporters about her.

Now, Libby's account is also a fascinating firsthand glimpse at the high-stakes administration effort to rebut those who questioned the White House rationale for war and a reminder that one of the big unresolved issues in this case, which is not scheduled for trial until next January, is just how much classified information can be put before the jury.

Now, the letter from the prosecutor does not name the superiors who Libby says authorized him to disclose that material from the CIA report, but "The National Journal" reported that Libby's account is that it was Vice President Cheney who was at least among those superiors. And a legal source close to the case tells CNN, "I wouldn't steer you away from that." (END VIDEOTAPE)

VERJEE: John King reporting. And as John said, this case began after former ambassador Joe Wilson discredited the president's claim that Saddam Hussein was trying to get nuclear material from Africa from a country called Niger. Now another CIA official is challenging the way the Bush administration used prewar intelligence.

Paul Pillar is the former intelligence for the Near East and South Asia, and he writes, "That intelligence was misused publicly to justify decisions already made." Now, that's in the upcoming issue of the "Journal of Foreign Affairs" -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Could a handprint be the key clue that brings those church arsonists in Alabama to an end? Investigators say they did in fact find a handprint on one of the doors of those nine churches torched over the past week in Alabama.

AMERICAN MORNING'S Bob Franken is in Greensboro, Alabama.

Bob, bring us up to date on the investigation.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the investigation is -- has little smidgens -- at least what we know about it -- the Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms people, the investigators from Washington, in conjunction with local officials, are looking at those kinds of clues. Also looking to see if two people who are spotted in a sports utility vehicle near one of the church burnings are people that should be of interest to investigators.

Much probably we don't know, but all of this here at the Rising Star Baptist Church brings back vivid memories.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN (voice over): It was nearly 10 years ago that Rising Star Baptist was set on fire. It was 3:00 in the morning. John Hodge, the deacon then and now, could only watch from across the road. His church, here since 1932, the place where he had married, burned to the ground.

DEACON JOHN HODGE, RISING STAR BAPTIST CHURCH: It's just like something has been taken away from you. Something that you cherish, and you no longer have it.

FRANKEN: But Hodge and his congregation did get over it. Rising Star Baptist literally rose from the ashes. Hundreds from the community, from around the world, Habitat for Humanity, the Quakers, all pooled their money, their supplies and their labor to rebuild this church, bringing back the community center, the Sunday school, the worship services.

For so many, much more than a place to come on Sunday.

ANNIE HILL, RISING STAR BAPTIST MEMBER: I would rather be here than be at home. Yes, and all of us are family right in this neighborhood. So -- and all of us get together and enjoy each other and sit around after church. We even sit around and talk after church. So I just love being over here.

FRANKEN: And now with the recent string of church burnings not far from here they are reliving the pain, with a special understanding of what the others are going through.

WILLIE LEE LIPSCOMB, RISING STAR BAPTIST MEMBER: It's hard when you wake up on Sunday morning and you know -- you come into your church, but you've got to go to another church. It's a really hurting thing.

FRANKEN: The congregation here plans to offer help to rebuild the latest churches even as these new fires rekindle some old fears.

MARION HODGE, RISING STAR BAPTIST CHURCH: I'm very nervous. We had choir rehearsal here last night and we could see an individual peeping in the door. Thank god it was a police officer checking on the building.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN: Well, in another sign of the nervousness here, for the third time, Miles, since we have been here shooting our video in the last couple of days, a member of the congregation has come by to find out who we were, what we were doing here, to make sure that we were not here to do something bad, because, of course, they have a very painful history here, and they are on a particular alert here to make sure that history does not repeat itself -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: And that vigilance is good. The concern is that the vigilance crosses a line, of course.

FRANKEN: Well, there's a concern always about people who are not law enforcement officials who would take matters into their own hands. But of course the concern among members of the congregation of this church and the many others around here is the concern that if they don't keep their guard up, somebody is going to come and do what has already been done, again, far too many times.

O'BRIEN: Bob Franken in Greensboro, Alabama.

Thank you.

Let's check some headlines now. Carol in the newsroom.

Good morning, Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Miles.

Good morning to all of you.

We have some new developments to tell you about coming out of the Olympic games in Torino, Italy. The International Olympics Committee announcing just within the past 15 minutes that no positive test results have come out for doping. Still, two American skiers are among eight athletes being barred from competing for now. We're still sorting through the details on this one, so we'll bring you more information when we find out -- actually when we figure it out and whether those athletes can now compete. We just don't know yet.

A little bit of controversy is following Wayne Gretzky to the Olympic games. He's there for the Canadian hockey team. But here in the United States, his name is being mentioned along with a gambling ring.

Authorities say Gretzky's assistant coach allegedly bankrolled the whole thing and that Gretzky's wife may have placed bets. But Gretzky assists he knows nothing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRETZKY: I'm not going anywhere. I'm still going to coach the Phoenix Coyotes. I have done nothing wrong or nothing that has to do with any sort of on the lines of betting. That's just never happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Gretzky's assistant coach, Rick Tocchet, has agreed to leave the Coyotes for now, and he could face charges in the days to come.

The British man accused of killing his wife and baby did not put up a fight after all. Neil Entwistle's lawyer says he has agreed to return to the United States from Britain to face charges in connection with the killings. The two were found dead in their Massachusetts's home last month -- that is, Entwistle's wife and baby daughter.

He will return to the United States within the week. He was arrested in Britain on Thursday.

Kidnapped journalist Jill Carroll says time is very short to win her release. Kuwaiti television airing new video of Carroll apparently shot nearly a month after she was abducted from Baghdad. Carroll says she is fine but urges her supporters to do whatever it takes as quickly as possible.

A letter was sent along with the tape. No word on what's in that letter.

The U.S. says Russia is on record as condemning Hamas as a terrorist group. So why is Russia offering an invitation?

Russian president Vladimir Putin has extended that invitation to Hamas leaders come to Moscow. He did so during a trip to Spain. And despite what the United States says, Putin says unlike most of the West, Russia does not see Hamas as a terrorist organization. It's not clear exactly when that meeting will take place.

That's a look at the headlines this morning. Back to you, Zain.

VERJEE: Thanks, Carol.

Let's check in on the weather forecast and go to Chad Myers at CNN Center.

Hi, Chad.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hi, Zain.

(WEATHER REPORT)

MYERS: Back to you.

O'BRIEN: And you'll be working all weekend.

MYERS: Of course.

O'BRIEN: Right? OK. Great. Personal weather cast.

MYERS: That's right.

O'BRIEN: All right. Thanks.

MYERS: You're welcome.

VERJEE: Coming up, more on Bike Brown's Senate testimony later today. What do lawmakers want to hear? We're going to ask one of the senators who will be questioning him, Senator Joseph Lieberman.

O'BRIEN: And switching gears, we've got another look at New York City's Fashion Week. Those runway shows, designers work for months on these things. They only last a few minutes. What makes them worth the trouble?

That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VERJEE: The man who President Bush said did a heck of a job during the days after Hurricane Katrina has a big day on Capitol Hill. In less than 30 minutes, former FEMA chief Michael Brown is expected to start dishing the dirt about what he says really happened.

Connecticut Senator Joseph Lieberman is a ranking Democrat on the committee investigating the Katrina response. And he joins us now from Capitol Hill.

Senator, good to talk to you.

SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN (D), CONNECTICUT: You, too, Zain. Good morning.

VERJEE: Do you have -- good morning. Do you have any indication on exactly what Michael Brown will divulge?

LIEBERMAN: In regard to conversations that Michael Brown had with anybody at the White House, we do not have any indication of what Michael Brown will say because he would not tell our investigators in their pre-hearing interview of him. But it is -- because the White House would not let him.

Apparently he's prepared to talk fully. I'm grateful for that. It serves the public interests, and serves the committee's interests in finding out why the federal government failed to protect the people of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast as we would have wanted them to, and Katrina.

And why do we want to know that? So we can make sure it never happens again.

VERJEE: What are some of the specific questions you want to ask him?

LIEBERMAN: Well, one of the most shocking realities was that after -- the day after Katrina hit landfall, August 29, Secretary Chertoff, for instance, and others at the White House have indicated that they really did not know that the levees in New Orleans had broken on the previous day, Monday, and that the disaster was as extreme as it was. And yet, we have now from our investigation more than 25 indications, e-mails, transcripts of phone conversations that people had with people at the Homeland Security Department or the White House on Monday indicating that the levees indeed had broken, that New Orleans was flooding and that it was in need of help desperately.

VERJEE: Senator, if I may read some of those e-mails on just how badly the situation was deteriorating on Monday, August 29, first, at 8:30 a.m. this morning, this came from the New Orleans director of Homeland Security.

"We're faced with major flooding both in the east, east New Orleans, and then out on the lakefront." Then at 9:36 a.m. that morning, this e-mail from a FEMA employee to a FEMA higher-up, "Report that the levee in Arabi has failed next to the Industrial Canal."

And then at 10:00 a.m., a Department of Homeland Security official e-mailed this to DHS headquarters in Washington. It said, "It's getting bad. Major flooding in some parts of the city. People are calling in for rescue saying that they are trapped in attics, et cetera. That means water is 10 feet high there already."

So clearly these indicate that federal officials on the ground were aware of how bad things were getting.

LIEBERMAN: Absolutely, Zain. And yet, apparently, you have a situation where the president of the United States and the secretary of Homeland Security, whose responsibility this really is, essentially go to sleep on Monday night without knowing that one of America's great cities is under water. And I think the system failed the president in this case and failed him badly, and limited the response that the federal government made that would have helped to stop some of the horrific scenes of human suffering at the Superdome and the convention center that we all saw last year.

VERJEE: Right.

I want to read you what the Department of Homeland Security says about these examples and about what you're saying. And essentially, they are saying that it was the chaos of the moment that really handicapped officials.

A spokesman said this: "You've got to realize that DHS Secretary Chertoff was intensely involved, deconflicting a lot of misinformation. He was not made aware that the levees were breached until Tuesday morning. And the fact that information did not get to him until Tuesday morning is a flaw and it's one that we've talked about."

What do you make of that? I mean, to be fair, nobody expected this and it was a chaotic situation.

LIEBERMAN: Yes. That's a shocking admission, but I don't accept that -- it's not acceptable in part because for years people had been saying if a big hurricane came to New Orleans the levees would break and the city would be flooded.

Over the weekend, Dr. Max Mayfield of the National Weather Service was warning not just the White House and Homeland Security, but the world on television that this was the big hurricane, Category 4 or 5. And everyone knew if a hurricane of that strength came the levees would break, the city would be flooded.

So they were on plenty of warning. And to say that it was chaos, it was chaos. But that's because our federal government and, in fact, the state and local governments were not prepared for what everybody told them would happen one day.

So it's an explanation, a description of what happened, but it is not acceptable as an excuse.

VERJEE: Senator Joseph Lieberman.

Tanks so much for being with us here on AMERICAN MORNING.

LIEBERMAN: Thank you.

VERJEE: Thank you.

We're going to take a quick break and we're going to be looking at Fashion Week when we come back. So stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Yes, baby, it's that fashion week music. You know what time it is? It's time for Alina Cho to give us a little lifestyle of the rich and famous thing.

You know, those shows, really, if you think about it, are a big pain. We're talking about putting on a huge fashion show. It all is over in a couple of minutes. Is it really worth it? And why do the designers go to all the trouble? Well, probably in part because we're talking about it right now.

Alina Cho is live now with us to talk about the insides, the inner workings. You know, in our business they say you shouldn't see sausage being made. Should we see the inner -- the dark side of fashion shows, Alina?

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I don't know about that. But you are absolutely right when you say it is so much work. It costs so much money, Miles. Sometimes even the designers wonder why they bother doing it.

Well, we talked to fashion insiders and some designers themselves who tell us the reason is pretty simple.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHO (voice over): The way a dress moves on the model, the way it shimmers on the catwalk, it's the reason designers take the time, energy, and money to stage a show. It's fashion, but it's big business, too.

MARK BADGLEY, FASHION DESIGNER: About 11 minutes is our presentation of our brand. All of our buyers are there, all the press is there.

JAMES MISCHKA, FASHION DESIGNER: Those 11 minutes live for six months, until the next show, the pictures in "Vogue," pictures in "Harper's," pictures in "Elle."

CHO: The people watching the show, the photographers shooting it, are as important as the show itself. Perhaps even more so. With a single word, fashion editors can create buzz about a certain dress or an entire collection. Retailers have to like it, too.

BADGLEY: Years ago, certain designers would do runway collections that were just, you know, like a circus. It wasn't really what they were building their business on. It wasn't the clothes that they were actually selling in the store. And those days are sort of over.

CHO: Ron Frasch, vice chairman of Saks fifth Avenue, says fashion shows are the ultimate marketing tool.

(on camera): You can see photos of the clothes.

RON FRASCH, SAKS FIFTH AVENUE: That's right. No, because it's the attitude of it. It's the way the models -- the clothes drape on the model, the way the clothes walk.

CHO: Do you know immediately when a model walks down the runway whether you want to buy that product?

FRASCH: Pretty much so. Pretty much so.

BADGLEY: That's a tough crowd out there. You know what I mean? That's all they do all day long is look at clothes. CHO (voice over): Badgley and Mischka are known for their evening wear. All the more reason to showcase their designs on live models.

(on camera): An evening gown has to fit just right, doesn't it?

MISCHKA: The clothes have to fit on the runway.

CHO (voice over): If a hem is a half-inch off, eagle-eyed editors spot the mistake, which is why Badgley and Mischka spend so much time fitting models, why they bother putting on a show.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A tremendous amount of work and effort goes into them. They are over in a whiff. But that's -- that's our brand.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHO: Now, designers Badgley and Mischka tell me another reason why they bother putting on a show is because it's an opportunity for them to showcase their accessories. Miles, we're talking about shoes, handbags, even sunglasses. They say even though their evening gowns are the bread and butter, accessories they hope by this time next year will make up half of their business -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Always important to accessorize, right, Alina?

CHO: That's right.

O'BRIEN: That's what I've been told.

CHO: You are right.

O'BRIEN: All right. Thank you, Alina. Have fun. And great job this week. Enjoyed it. It was good fun.

We're just a few moments away from ex-FEMA chief Mike Brown's Senate testimony. Live pictures there as he takes the hot seat. Well, it doesn't seem that hot. He didn't jump right up out of it. But he is going to be talking to members of the Senate in a little bit. What will he say?

Stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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