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CNN Saturday Morning News

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon Out Of Emergency Surgery; Sharon's Health May Affect Mideast Peace; Olympics Update; Being Gay In The NFL; Brown Testimony On FEMA Response To Katrina; Litter Ordinance In Oakland; Winter Storm Coming To Northeast

Aired February 11, 2006 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has been in a coma at this Jerusalem hospital for more than a month now. And early this morning, the ailing leader was rushed into emergency surgery that was completed just about two hours ago. Doctors are telling his family Sharon is in danger. We're going to get you the latest on that.
Good morning, everybody. From the CNN Center in Atlanta, it's Saturday, February 11th. I'm Betty Nguyen.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Tony Harris. Thank you for starting your day with us. We'll take you live to Jerusalem for an expected news conference in just a couple of minutes. First, a quick look at some other stories happening right now in the news.

Live pictures now. Muslims in Britain take a different approach in protesting cartoon depictions of the Prophet Mohammed they consider blasphemous. Today's demonstration in Trafalgar Square was quite peaceful compared to other protests in the Muslim world. Again, these are live pictures. Eleven people have been killed in violent protests in Syria, Lebanon and in Afghanistan.

A Kuwaiti news channel says Jill Carroll's abductors have set a new deadline for their demands to be met or the 28-year-old American journalist will be killed. February 26th is the reported last day for all female Iraqi prisoners to be released or the threat will reportedly be carried out.

NGUYEN: FEMA's former director is fighting back in no uncertain terms. An indignant Michael Brown told a Senate panel he tried to sidestep the growing red tape that surrounded the government's response to Hurricane Katrina. But, Brown says, he was ignored and later abandoned by the administration.

Well, Iran's president is threatening to walk away from nuclear talks. In a speech to celebrate the anniversary of the Islamic Revolution, he said Iran has a right to development nuclear energy for peaceful purposes and he repeated his claim that the Holocaust was a hoax.

Azerbaijan has become the 21st country to report the most lethal strain of bird flu. Also, China and Indonesia reported two new human bird flu deaths. That brings the total number of bird flu deaths to 90 worldwide.

HARRIS: A 20-year veteran of the New Jersey State Police has been suspended in the widening investigation of an allegedly illegal gambling ring. Police say the ring may have included National Hockey League players and celebrities, and it may have been linked to the Mafia. The ring allegedly processed more than 1,000 wagers on pro and college sports.

The Olympic games are underway in Torino, Italy. These are some dazzling scenes from last night's opening ceremonies. The three-hour affair dotted with song, dance and opera enthralled the crowd of 35,000 people, and we'll take you to the games live this hour.

NGUYEN: Coming up, a look out in the Northeast. It's coming your way. A winter storm is on track to blanket the region with all that white stuff.

Also coming up, forcing two-legged litter critters to clean up after themselves. We're talking about humans here. Not so fast says some fast food outlets -- the two sides of this heated debate are going to go head to head.

And for nine years his NFL teammates didn't know while he suffered with a secret. Now Mr. Aloha comes out in a book, "Alone in the Trenches." We'll talk to him.

HARRIS: Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is out of emergency surgery, doctors finishing up on the latest procedure about two hours ago. The ailing 77-year-old was found to have a problem with his digestive tract, requiring immediate attention. It is Sharon's seventh time under the knife since a January 4th stroke left him comatose.

CNN's Guy Raz has the latest from Hadassah Medical Center in Jerusalem. Guy, good morning.

GUY RAZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Tony. And as we speak, we understand that the officials from this hospital are coming out to brief reporters. If I look over my shoulder I can see them starting to come out. They should give us a better sense of the prime minister's condition. As we speak now, two hours since he was brought into the intensive care ward.

He underwent four hours of surgery on his digestive tract. This was after doctors had determined his digestive tract had suffered intense damage. They rushed him to the operating theater, the fourth major surgery he's undergone now in the past five weeks. This on a man who has been in a coma now for five weeks since he was admitted to this hospital now on January 4th after suffering a massive brain hemorrhage -- Tony.

HARRIS: Hey, Guy, let me ask you this, are we just moments away? I'm trying to make a determination as to whether we should talk to Dr. Sanjay Gupta or -- OK. Are we close to the officials from the hospital actually moving to that podium? RAZ: They should be moving to the podium as we speak Tony. We are expecting them to come out here, the first time they are really going to brief journalists about the prime minister's condition since he was brought into the operating room early this morning.

At the time he was brought in, doctors had said his life was in serious and imminent danger. And there was a sense almost immediately that he would not survive this procedure.

Now it appears as if his condition has stabilized. And there is a bit more optimism coming out of Hadassah Hospital with doctors essentially saying his condition has indeed stabilized.

HARRIS: OK, Guy, we see that the officials from the hospital including the hospital director, Shlomo Mor-Yosef are at the podium now. Let's listen in.

SHLOMO MOR-YOSEF, DIRECTOR, HADASSAH MED. CTR. (through translator): (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE). The prime minister has been at Hadassah Hospital for 39 days. During this period, as you're all aware, after suffering a CVA, he has been in a coma, an ongoing coma, protracted coma, including at this moment.

Yesterday, the doctors looking after him noticed that the abdomen was swollen and hence -- obviously, it's impossible to ask the prime minister how he feels and whether he feels pain, and the only way to make a diagnosis was to take him for an upper CT scan, this time of his abdominal area, not of his head. In the CT scan, damage was found to the intestine.

And hence a following consultation with the prime minister's family, with his two sons, has decided that the appropriate treatment was to take the prime minister down to the operating room and to take a decision as to what further treatment could carry out.

An initial step was to carry out -- to look through a laparoscope in order to carry out further diagnosis and then carry out the operation. During that time, it was found that the prime minister was in immediate danger because of damage to the intestine. The large intestine was found to have been damaged and to be gangrenous.

In the light of this, an operation was carried out where part of the large intestine was removed, the right-hand side, which is the area that's connected to the small intestine, as well. And in all, 50 centimeters of the large intestine was removed, constituting something like a third of the length of the small -- of the large intestine and part of the large intestine at the point of connection.

There were no complications at all in terms of blood pressure, pulse, and other indicators that we check constantly. There was no change whatsoever.

At the end of the operation, the prime minister was moved to the general intensive care unit, ICU, because for the next few days the main problem involves largely problems of the intestine and related problems, so we didn't think it appropriate to return him to the neurological ICU, but rather he's gone to general ICU where he will be treated.

It's important to note that the central problem of the Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is his lack of consciousness. It's not the problem in his abdominal area. This is a problem which was discovered last night and during the day, and that problem therefore is in addition to the central problem which is the lack of consciousness and regretfully this is a condition where for the last week or ten days there has been no significant change.

As far as his current condition is concerned, the state of affairs is serious. It's stable, it's critical, but there is no immediate danger to the life of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.

Obviously, at the same time, we are closely monitoring all aspects relating to consciousness of the prime minister in the hope and prayer and providing treatment to the effect that the prime minister will come around, regain consciousness.

But certainly, there's no doubt whatsoever that the event which he underwent today, the operation, and the changes that have been caused as a result of the operation, certainly do not enhance the prime minister's state of health. Question? Abbi Fiester (ph)?

QUESTION: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE).

MOR-YOSEF (through translator): The prime minister has been in the hospital for a month in a serious, static condition.

QUESTION (through translator): Do you relate what happened what happened today or yesterday with it?

MOR-YOSEF (through translator): The incident that occurred during the night and this morning is certainly an incident that we don't -- a state of affairs that we see in the case of people who are unconscious and who do not move for long time, where the function or intestinal function does tend to deteriorate relating to the flow of blood to the intestine.

There is certainly a connection, not a direct connection, however. We didn't find a blood clot within the blood vessels that supply the intestine to be the reason. The reasons for what has taken place may be infections or a decline in the blood supply to a certain location in the intestine. Channel 2?

QUESTION: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE).

MOR-YOSEF (through translator): Removing part of the large intestine is a routine procedure which is carried out in any hospital with a surgical division, at least once a day or once every two days. It's not a dramatic operation, it's not an exceptional procedure. Normally it's done on a planned basis.

This operation was an emergency operation and that's also a routine procedure. After such a procedure patients go back to normal functioning, but I would remind you that the key problem of the prime minister is his lack of consciousness. It's not his intestinal function.

We, obviously, are monitoring the whole of the intestine the whole time. And if it's necessary to reexamine the intestine, then we would do so. We have sufficient indicators for the moment to check on intestinal function without carrying out a further operation. Channel 10?

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE).

MOR-YOSEF (through translator): As I've said, no artery has been found to be occluded. There's no blockage of any blood vessel. And I cannot add anything further. Army Radio, Ali Tahal (ph)?

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE).

MOR-YOSEF (through translator): As you know, and as all the specialists throughout this whole period of the last five or six weeks are aware the functioning of the brain is very much of a mystery to them and to us.

Obviously, every day that passes the chances decline and, obviously, every such event of an additional complication or disease in the case of an unconscious patient don't improve his chances.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE).

MOR-YOSEF (through translator): In the last two weeks, the prime minister has been fed by means of a gastrotube and this will continue, obviously. At first, following the operation, we will do an intravenous feeding and all of this, of course, does take us back a number of steps. Thank you very much, and (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE).

HARRIS: All right. Let's get the -- some additional information on the type of surgery Ariel Sharon had just a few hours ago. We bring in our senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, good to talk to you and good morning to you. First of all, let me have you explain this procedure and the need for it after a CAT scan revealed problems and some swelling in the prime minister's abdomen.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you know, it's not an uncommon course in an intensive care unit. Typically what happens is the -- they notice some swelling in his abdomen. Literally you could just see that as you examined him. Sounds like they got a CAT scan which showed not only the swelling but also some areas of intestine that in fact had been damaged.

And what they mean specifically by that, Tony, is that areas of his intestine had not been getting enough blood flow and subsequently were starting to develop gangrene. Sort of what you think of -- you know, your fingers or your toes or something. That can actually happen in the intestine as well.

That's a life-threatening problem which is why he was taken to the operating room. The operation itself -- sounds like when they actually looked at the intestine they actually noticed the gangrene and they thought this is a life-threatening condition, which it is, and decided to go ahead and remove a large portion of his intestine.

Sounded like 50 centimeters is what I just heard and -- which is a very large portion, the idea being get out that gangrenous part of the intestine, stop any possible infection and possibly that could lead to a stability of his overall condition. And it sounds like that's happened.

And, you know, but stable, of course, is a relative term, Tony. His blood pressure, his heart rate, may have stabilized, but this is a serious operation. However, not an uncommon problem in someone who has been in an ICU for over a month now in the condition he's been in.

HARRIS: This term that we heard earlier -- now, I need to point out we didn't hear it in this update, but earlier we had heard this term necrosis. What is that?

GUPTA: Necrosis -- what that means basically is just death of cells in a particular place, in this case in the intestine. So for whatever reason -- and there could be a lot of different reasons -- the blood flow to his intestines was inadequate. And when you don't have enough oxygen in blood getting to an organ, the cells are starving, essentially, and they start to die.

The way that they react to that is they get swollen. They're angry and those cells start to get swollen. All the tissue subsequently gets swollen and his intestines stopped working. That's why the abdomen is essentially swollen, as well.

HARRIS: Sanjay, it was mentioned just a few moments ago that it is -- that while this is a serious procedure and a serious event, that the fact that the prime minister remains in a coma is the more significant event.

GUPTA: Yes, you know, I think a lot of people are sort of pointing now to the fact he's been in a coma for over a month. He's had three operations on his brain by my count, and that has still got to be considered the most serious sort of part of his overall care right now.

I mean, he has just never woken up. And I think most neurosurgeons -- and you and I talked about this, Tony, a month ago -- were surprised that he has actually survived this long. He is clearly a fighter. I mean, I think that that's clear from his hospital course thus far.

But this is a -- you know, for a 77-year-old gentlemen to undergo three operations on his brain in the wake of significant bleeding is remarkable in and of itself and has to still be considered the most significant aspect of his overall health.

HARRIS: And, Sanjay, this procedure today was four hours in length and by our count he's undergone seven surgeries. So you're right, this is a lot of work on this man. He is 77 years old, after all. Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay, good to talk to you. Thanks for taking the time.

GUPTA: Thank you, Tony. Sure.

NGUYEN: Well, Sharon has had an interesting relationship with President Bush in the past. The two worked together on Bush's roadmap to peace. So if things take a turn for the worse, and Sharon does die, what does this mean for the future of the process? We're going to look ahead now.

Let's talk with CNN's Kathleen Koch who is in Washington about that possibility. And what does it mean politically?

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Betty, obviously that's a very difficult question right now to answer and certainly one reason that the White House has been very carefully watching this downturn in the prime minister's health.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan saying earlier, quote, "the White House is closely following the situation and keeping Prime Minister Sharon in our thoughts and prayers."

Now, back in early January when Sharon initially suffered that massive stroke, President Bush at the time called him, quote, "a good man, a strong man, with a vision for peace." And, obviously, he has been a critical partner in President Bush's efforts to bring peace to that very volatile and unsettled region and to eventually secure a permanent Palestinian state.

But, obviously, with Sharon comatose since January, the White House has been operating under the assumption that eventually there will be a successor who will fill his role.

But the question is, will that successor be equally strong? Will he enjoy the same popular support amongst the Israeli population that Sharon has up to this point? And would he then be able to thus make good on the commitments that Sharon has made for continuing withdrawals?

Now, the administration officials have said throughout that they do believe that the peace process will continue and will make progress. Though, that, of course, was a further complicated last month by the Hamas Party's victory in the Palestinian elections. President Bush saying at the time that he would not work with Hamas until it disarms its militias and renounces its goal of destroying Israel.

So, Betty, a very difficult situation becoming all the more complicated this morning.

NGUYEN: It is a difficult situation as many are just hoping for the best with the condition of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon there in Israel. Thank you so much, Kathleen.

KOCH: You bet.

HARRIS: And we will keep bringing you the very latest on Ariel Sharon's health. First off, we were awaiting a news conference at the hospital. It just wrapped up, and we will bring you further updates. Our Guy Raz is in Jerusalem outside of the Hadassah Medical Center. If there are more developments on the condition of Ariel Sharon, we will, of course, bring those to you live.

NGUYEN: Don't know if you got to see it last night, the Olympics opening ceremonies. It was a grand sight. Did you see it?

HARRIS: $17 million worth? I missed it.

NGUYEN: Yes, $17 million. It was a show, I tell you what. We're going to be talking about the Olympics and what's been happening so far.

Plus you have seen the trash. You know, fast food wrappers all over the streets. One city council is saying enough is enough, and it is taxing store owners. But some people say hold on, not so fast. Both sides of the issue live right here on CNN SATURDAY MORNING.

HARRIS: Plus for almost a decade, he kept his homosexuality a secret from his NFL teammates. It's a secret no more. I'll talk live with former lineman Esera Tuaolo -- got it -- after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: That one shining moment.

NGUYEN: That was terrible.

HARRIS: Yes, that was terrible.

NGUYEN: Yes, that was terrible.

HARRIS: With all the pomp and circumstance now out of the way, the 20th winter Olympiad is now underway in Torino, Italy. The first gold medal goes to Germany's Michael Greis in the men's 20-km biathlon.

Sadly, though, it appears gold medal hopes for U.S. figure skater Michelle Kwan are on proverbial thin ice. Let's get to our guy covering the winter games for us in Torino, Italy. CNN Sport's Larry Smith has the latest on Kwan's Olympic hopes. And, Larry, what do we know?

LARRY SMITH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I tell you this, first make it not just one gold medal, but two, not only Michael Greis winning the earlier one, but also Georg Hettich just a few moments ago finishing up in the Nordic combined, so Germany right now two for two in gold medals to start these 20th Olympic Games -- 20th Winter Olympic Games, I should say.

Meanwhile Michelle Kwan, the five-time world figure skating champion, nine-time American champion, cut short her practice today. She was frustrated and just tired after struggling through several of her jumps and also she did not go through her short program as expected. Keep in mind that a groin injury kept her out of nationals several weeks ago. Last month, she was deemed healthy enough to compete and was given a spot on the U.S. team just last month, the medical exemption. But now here today, she did not finish so certainly her health of that groin injury comes into question.

But she says despite the setbacks she is convinced that she is going to move forward and try to get that elusive Olympic gold medal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE KWAN, U.S. FIGURE SKATER: It's been a struggle for me this year. And I've gotten through a lot of injuries and I'm just really happy to be here. But I think taking one thing at a time for me is important. Listening to my body is important.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMITH: Well if the 25-year-old Kwan cannot go, then Emily Hughes, the younger sister of the 2002 figure skating Olympic gold medallist Sarah Hughes, would take her place.

Pairs figure skating comes up tonight. You may recall 2002 in Salt Lake. It was the center of controversy, all the judges' scoring and all that that went on. Well, competition opens tonight and the American duo will try to become the first American duo to medal in this event since 1988 in Calgary.

They will go off. Rena Inoue and John Baldwin are the team that carry the Olympic hopes for the U.S. Inoue, by the way, recently made an Olympic -- became an Olympic -- an American citizen, I should say. She was born in China and now trying an American trying to bring home gold for the red, white, and blue. Let's go back to you.

HARRIS: Larry, just a quick question. When are the ladies -- Michelle Kwan and the rest of the ladies -- scheduled to begin their competition?

SMITH: Later on here in these games. They will have several days of practice. And, again, tonight with the pairs figure skating, that starts first and they will begin later on next week.

HARRIS: OK, Larry Smith, our man in Torino, Italy. Larry, thank you.

NGUYEN: Well, we're going to be watching that.

HARRIS: Yes.

NGUYEN: I always enjoy that competition.

All right. With thousands of people displaced because of Hurricane Katrina, now comes more Congressional finger pointing and in the hot seat yet again, former FEMA chief Mike Brown. We're going to show you some of the fireworks right here on CNN SATURDAY MORNING. HARRIS: Plus it is an interesting read. The author of "Alone in the Trenches: My Life As A Gay NFL Player" joins us live. Esera, there you are.

NGUYEN: Good morning. Good morning.

HARRIS: Good morning. Peace in the valley, peace in the wood. We'll talk to Esera in just a moment when CNN SATURDAY MORNING continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

NGUYEN: We are going to be watching, Bonnie. Thank you.

Well, just a few minutes ago a hospital official in Jerusalem gave us an update on Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's condition. And he says there is no immediate danger to his life. Now earlier today, Sharon was rushed into emergency surgery after a scan detected severe damage to his digestive tract. Although the surgery is considered very serious, the real concern is the coma he's been in. Sharon suffered a massive stroke in January and has been unconscious since. Tony.

HARRIS: Well, he was a powerful 300 pound lineman who played nine years in the National Football League. Esera Tuaolo even made it to the Super Bowl. His legacy however, has nothing to do with touchdowns and tackles. Tuaolo will always be remembered as one of the first football players to publicly announce that he is gay.

Sometimes, especially after a great game, Tuaolo would go home and spend the rest of the night in fear, afraid that someone saw him on television and would tell the world he's gay. Tuaolo chronicles those tension-filled days in a new book called "Alone in the Trenches. My life as a Gay Man in the NFL" and he joins us live this morning from Minneapolis, Minnesota. Esera, good to see you.

ESERA TUAOLO, FMR. NFL PLAYER: Aloha Tony, how are you?

HARRIS: Aloha to you, thank you sir. Thank you.

TUAOLO: Well, aloha Atlanta and aloha to the world. Gosh, how many times can you do that? How are you doing?

HARRIS: Well, great. Good to talk to you. Let me start with a quote here from ex-Giant Roy Simmons and this is a quote you're familiar with, who says in the NFL, there is nothing worse than being gay. You can beat your wife, you better not be gay. What do you think of that statement? Is he correct?

TUAOLO: I played nine years in the NFL. You know, I have seen a lot in the locker rooms. I've seen a lot of comments, things that have happened. Guys that have domestic abuse against their wives, and it's just so funny, because a lot of them would come back to open arms. As far as being gay and living in the fear that I was living in and hearing some of the comments in the locker rooms from players, coaches or whoever, it didn't really give me that safe ground to be able to come out and be myself. So, yes, I totally agree with what he's saying.

HARRIS: How big -- are we just talking about out and out homophobia in the NFL?

TUAOLO: Excuse me?

HARRIS: Are we just talking about out and out homophobia in the NFL?

TUAOLO: Yes, yes, definitely.

HARRIS: That's what it is.

TUAOLO: Yes. I'm sorry. I'm having a little difficulty hearing you.

HARRIS: I can see that. All right. So is it better now?

TUAOLO: Oh, yes.

HARRIS: OK. So there was never a thought in your mind that you could declare your sexuality while you were playing in the National Football League. How about in college?

TUAOLO: Definitely not. No, not even in college. I think as a child, growing up and hearing so many negative things about homosexuality, you know, them being like the sissies on the playground and growing up and in college, there's no way or no time that I ever felt comfortable that I could be myself.

HARRIS: Well, Esera, let me ask you this. I mean, I think we sort of all intuitively understand that to be true, but I'm just wondering, what do you think would have been the reaction if you had come out?

TUAOLO: You know what, I think I would have got hurt.

HARRIS: Are you saying physically hurt?

TUAOLO: Yes, as Sterling Sharpe said in the HBO special, somebody would try to take me out. And that's just how I feel because of the nine years playing in there, comments like that. It's easy to like just take out somebody's knees or go for their backs or you know, or it was very difficult.

I mean, but, yes, I think I would have gotten hurt. And also I think I would have gotten fired or kicked off the team, because it's all about team chemistry. It's all about the dollars. It's all -- it would have been difficult for a team, I believe, to have a gay person on there.

HARRIS: You played in a Super Bowl with Brett Favre.

TUAOLO: Actually, no, I played with the Atlanta Falcons, the dirty birds.

HARRIS: That's right. Did you wrap up your career with -- when did you play with Favre?

TUAOLO: I played with -- I played with Favre my rookie year, my second year and stuff. I moved on to the Minnesota Vikings. But I played with the Atlanta in the Super Bowl, Super Bowl XXXV.

HARRIS: That's right. That's right.

TUAOLO: I taught him that dance. No, I'm just kidding.

HARRIS: I have to ask you, Favre is thought of as such an icon in the National Football League. I understand that you really don't have much communication with him. I'm sure there are other players that you were friendly with while you played that you don't talk to now. But the Favre story I think jumps out for a lot of folks, because you still have good relations with his mom.

TUAOLO: I still talk to Bonita. I talked to her when their book came out. What I tell people and stuff, I didn't do this to like rekindle friendships. It was very difficult when I was playing in the NFL and probably easier for me to cut off friendships because it was hard for me to truly describe or to share who I really was with a friend. So it was very difficult.

So the easiest part for me was just to cut the relationship off. It's nobody's fault. I'm not blaming anybody. But, not hearing from them, the reason why I came out and not to rekindle friendships. But the reason why we came out, my husband and I is because of our children. We wanted our children to know.

HARRIS: You have twins, right?

TUAOLO: We have twins. We have a boy and a girl, Mitchell and Michelle and they are the world to us.

HARRIS: Well, boy, you've really told a story here and I feel -- really, this will be an intriguing read for a lot of folks. The new book is titled "Alone in the Trenches, My Life as a Gay Man in the NFL." Best with the book. When is it available?

TUAOLO: In March. One of the reasons why I know -- I wrote this book and stuff is just hoping that it would inspire somebody like David Kope's (ph) book inspired me. To tell you the truth, if a friend of mine's Jack Law (ph) did not give me the David Kope book, I probably would not be here talking to you right now.

HARRIS: Well, Esera, it's good to talk to you and the best with the book.

TUAOLO: All right. Aloha. Thank you very much.

HARRIS: OK, our pleasure. We'll take a break and come back with more CNN SATURDAY MORNING right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Well the Katrina blame game is under way in Washington. Former FEMA Director Michael Brown told a Senate committee that he personally warned top White House officials that Katrina would be our worst nightmare. Brown in his second Capitol Hill appearance since Katrina, is explaining his side of what went wrong.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARK PRYOR (D) ARKANSAS: Do you feel like you've been sort of set up to be the scapegoat?

MICHAEL BROWN, FORMER FEMA DIRECTOR: Yes, sir.

PRYOR: The fall guy.

BROWN: Yes, sir. I can't lie. Yes, I feel that way.

PRYOR: You feel like the administration has done that to you?

BROWN: I certainly feel somewhat abandoned.

PRYOR: In your opinion, just your opinion as a private citizen, should FEMA be in DHS?

BROWN: I have since come to the conclusion that the cultural differences are so wide and so great that it cannot function within DHS.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Man, Bill Walsh is the New Orleans newspaper -- is with the New Orleans newspaper, the "Times-Picayune" and he joins us live from Washington where he's attending the hearings. And I first have to ask you, Bill, it sounds as though Mike Brown felt he could not communicate with the folks at the Department of Homeland Security and felt like that if he had to communicate with them, he couldn't get anything done so he went around them, set up this parallel communication system directly with the White House.

BILL WALSH, TIMES-PICAYUNE: That's right. I mean, at least that's what he said yesterday. I think the gist of his testimony was that he and his agency FEMA felt marginalized within the Department of Homeland Security. He said that he felt that the DHS (sic) was too focused on terrorism and that the FEMA was the redheaded stepchild of the entire operation, putting him in charge of the natural disaster when it happened on August 29th.

HARRIS: You know and it also sounds as though it seemed to me that there was a point in time when there was all kinds of information, early warnings coming in, reports coming in on that Monday before the Tuesday when the administration acknowledged that it knew that the situation was pretty grave, but on that Monday that there was information going into this operation center and it almost felt as though that there were people in that -- in DHS, who did not like Mike Brown and seem determined to sort of hang him out to dry on this?

WALSH: Well, it's hard to say exactly what was happening there. It's clear now from this investigation that the word was getting to DHS and to the White House operation center about just how bad things were in New Orleans, not just that this category four storm was coming perilously close to the city, but that the levees had in fact breached and was filling up the city 80 percent with water.

Now, the reason why those warnings weren't heeded is still a little bit unclear. Next Tuesday, Mr. Chertoff the Secretary of Homeland Security will be in to testify in front of that same committee. And I expect that the committee members are going to have a lot of those questions for him.

HARRIS: And but Bill, was it clear to you that there was not much of a relationship at all between Mike Brown and Michael Chertoff?

WALSH: Yes, I think that was really evident. Brown described well before the hurricane attempting to get meetings with Mr. Chertoff, bring the needs of FEMA to his attention and being rebuffed, being shunted to the side. Like I said before Brown felt marginalized and so does his agency.

HARRIS: And it's got to be interesting for you from being from the New Orleans area and writing for the "Picayune," it has to be interesting for the people on the ground in New Orleans who may be watching this situation to understand that there were warnings that warnings, that warnings were being transmitted back into the Department of Homeland Security and that Mike Brown had a sense of how bad things were getting on the ground and yet there seemed to be very little coordination and mobilization of assets into the area.

WALSH: It's very confusing for the people in New Orleans to understand what happened and even what is happening now. I was interested to see that Mr. Brown said that he felt abandoned within the agency. Well, the people in New Orleans felt -- feel abandoned even today.

It's almost six months after the hurricane. It's been no secret that this is one of the most vulnerable places in the entire nation for -- to hurricanes. People have been warning for years about the possibility and the likelihood of a serious hurricane hitting this part of the world and have been pleading for higher levees, better coastal protection and have seen their pleas go unheeded in Washington. Even today they feel they are not being listened to.

HARRIS: Bill Walsh is with the "Times-Picayune," Bill, thanks for your time this morning. Appreciate it.

WALSH: Sure, my pleasure.

NGUYEN: Well, you know ugly trash or how ugly trash can be, one and the same, ugly trash, trash ugly, whatever. Unfortunately just like at the roadside, you can see it in so many areas. HARRIS: Well, so you have to wonder when one city wants to clean up the litter, why are some people complaining? That debate straight ahead.

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NGUYEN: All right. Oakland, California, has been doing a little trash talking this week and it's caused some fast food restaurant owners to lose their appetite. The city council voted to impose a litter tax on fast food spots, convenience stores and liquor stores to help pay for cleanup with the city's litter problem. The city says it's the best option to keep the streets clean.

But the people who will be paying says it's just unfair. So let's go to Oakland City Councilwoman Jane Brunner, who came up with the idea for the tax. And also joining us is Jot Condie, president and CEO of the California Restaurant Association. Good morning to you both. We appreciate you being here.

JOT CONDIE, CEO, CALIFORNIA RESTAURANT ASSN.: Good morning.

JANE BRUNNER, OAKLAND CITY COUNCIL: Good morning.

NGUYEN: Good morning. Let me start with you since you came up with this idea. First of all, how big is the problem and why is this needed? Is it truly needed?

BRUNNER: It is absolutely needed. I have been working on this problem for about eight years. You have high school and junior high schools and the fast food establishments come and are right around those areas. The kids go eat during lunch, after school. They eat their lunch and as they walk to the bus stop, back to school, they are dropping their litter on front yards.

NGUYEN: OK, but of the litter problem, how much of it is -- or can be blamed on fast food companies on liquor stores and convenient stores. How much of that litter is from those places?

BRUNNER: Almost all of it is from those places. A lot of it is from those places and we're asking them to be good neighbors and help us clean up.

NGUYEN: All right. But why not raise the fines for littering? It seems like you're taxing the people who are putting the food out there but not the people who are putting trash on the ground.

BRUNNER: Well, we have a three-prong attack. We're going to do education in the schools. The police officers are going to do stings to get at that and then the last piece is that the fast food restaurants and establishments need to be a partner with the city to make it beautiful.

NGUYEN: John, I want to ask you, can this tax really control the litter problem? Is it going to do it?

CONDIE: I don't think so. The ordinance that I read is a one- prong attack and it doesn't talk about education or it doesn't talk about enforcement. The fact is we agree litter is a problem. But we also agree litter is a crime and if you want to change behavior and you want to change the way people act, don't go fine or charge a tax to somebody else simply because they sell a product that people use to litter. If you want to address speeding, you don't go to a gas station and charge someone a tax just because someone sells gas that causes people to speed. Focus on enforcement.

NGUYEN: All right, so, let me ask you with this tax, firs to all, tell me how much is it going to cost the industry there and will that be passed on to consumers?

CONDIE: Absolutely. I mean I think I heard a figure of about $200,000 per year this raises and I think I heard the councilwoman say a while back, it's about 67 cents per day making the argument that this is a burden that is fairly benign. But every tax that businesses operate under that are getting out of control always start this way.

They are being sold as a benign tax, but once they figure out that the 14 people they are going to hire to pick up trash doesn't fix the problem, they will go back and double the tax, triple the taxes, a pattern that we've seen time and again in large cities like Oakland.

NGUYEN: Jot, is the California Restaurant Association going to sue?

CONDIE: Well, there was a case in Chicago where a similar type of proposal was over turned because it was unconstitutional. We believe this tax is unconstitutional, as well and if they go forward it's certainly an option that we'll look at.

NGUYEN: Councilwoman, what is your action to a possible lawsuit over this?

BRUNNER: We believe the fast food establishments are going to sue us. Our attorneys have looked at that very carefully. We believe this is very legally sound. The Chicago case is very different and it's -- we have worked this out, understanding the Chicago case and we believe that this will be a upheld.

NGUYEN: What makes this different from the Chicago case because that one when it went to the appeals court. It was overturned.

BRUNNER: Well, this case, we have -- we are really absolutely looking at only establishments that create litter. We have a lot of ways for establishments to not pay the fee, because if they volunteer, they can be exempted. We have business improvement districts if agree to clean up, then we're going to exempt them.

So we wrote a very different ordinance. And it is really very little money and we do not plan to raise it significantly at all. We plan to make sure that we hire young students from the high school who in the area, pay them after school to pick up the litter and we hope that by them picking up the litter, they may get a little frustrated and start working with their friend not to litter. NGUYEN: We are going to have to leave it there. Councilwoman Jane Brunner and Jot Condie with the California Restaurant Association. We thank you both for your time in talking about this litter tax.

BRUNNER: Thank you.

HARRIS: Well some nasty weather rolling across the nation. Tennessee, really hit hard. Is that Tennessee?

NGUYEN: It doesn't look like it, does it?

HARRIS: Man! Find out who is next in line for all of this snow with meteorologist Bonnie Schneider. She drops by in just a couple of minutes after the break.

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NGUYEN: I'm supposed to ask you.

HARRIS: What?

NGUYEN: Well you know I'm going to hold on to that.

HARRIS: Why?

NGUYEN: I'm going to keep you in suspense. We got to hold on for it, because Bonnie snider is here and she's going to be talking about this cold weather. It's called a nor'easter. Can you explain exactly what that is?

BONNIE SCHNEIDER, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Absolutely. When we're talking about a nor'easter Betty, we're talking about a storm that develops off the coast. Sometimes it does develop over land and right now the nor'easter part of it really hasn't started just yet. Right now the center of pressure is still kind of getting going, getting organized, but we are seeing some snow and we are seeing some rain as the system cranks up.

So here's your official definition of a nor'easter. This comes courtesy of NOAA, a strong low pressure system that affects the mid- Atlantic and New England states. Again it could form over land or over sea. But a lot of folks ask me how does a nor'easter get its name?

Why is it called a nor'easter? Here's the answer. It gets its name from the steady strong, north easterly winds blowing in from the ocean. So that's why it's called nor'easter an it's a common storm up into New England and that's exactly where we're expecting to see some very heavy snow especially tonight and tomorrow.

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NGUYEN: ... advice I've heard. All right, thank you, Bonnie.

Back to the question that I'm supposed to ask you. Supposed to ask you, you know what Tuesday is and you better answer right for your wife's sake.

HARRIS: I know but I wait for inspiration. And I think that's a problem because sometimes inspiration doesn't come and she is disappointed.

NGUYEN: It better come and come quickly with the goods, too, Tony.

For those of you who haven't picked up that gift for Valentine's Day, Tony, you don't want to miss consumer electronics analyst Robin Liss. She is live next hour and she's going to show you some new Valentine's Day gadgets. Again, that's next hour on CNN SATURDAY MORNING, good gift ideas.

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