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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Congressional Report Critical of DHS Handling of Hurricane Katrina; Is Secret Wiretap Program Abuse of Power?
Aired February 13, 2006 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate and opinion for Monday, February 13.
Live in New York, Lou Dobbs.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everybody.
Tonight, two days after Vice President Dick Cheney accidentally shot a member of his hunting party and his own political party, the White House press corps is demanding aggressively answers and all but ignoring other critically important national issues. We'll be live at the White House with a report.
Also tonight, a country with ties to the September 11 terrorists could soon be running significant operations at some of our most important and largest seaports with a full blessing of the Bush White House. We'll have the special report.
And secret government wiretaps on some Americans. Is it a legitimate exercise of presidential authority or an abuse of power? I'll be talking with two legal and constitutional authorities with different views on whether the president is acting lawfully.
All of that and more coming up.
We begin tonight with scathing criticism of Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and other officials for their slow response to Hurricane Katrina. A draft congressional report says there was a "failure of leadership" at all levels of government. The report says Chertoff was detached and former FEMA director Michael Brown was clueless.
Chertoff today rejected suggestions his Department of Homeland Security was too focused on terrorism to respond effectively to the natural disaster.
Jeanne Meserve reports from Washington -- Jeanne.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Lou, scathing is the word. The report says it is difficult to understand how the government could respond so ineffectively to a disaster that was anticipated for years and for which dire warnings had been issued for days.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) MESERVE (voice over): The Katrina response was a national failure, a collection of mistakes, misjudgments, lapses and absurdities, according to the draft report from the House select committee investigating this storm. Noting that the crisis was not only predictable but predicted, the report says, "If this is what happens when we have advanced warning, we shudder to imagine the consequences when we do not. Four and a half years after 9/11, America still is not ready for prime time."
Though the report notes a failure of leadership at every level, it's most withering criticism is directed at Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, who it says executed its responsibilities late, ineffectively or not at all. A report from the minority Democrats called for Chertoff's removal from office.
Speaking to emergency managers, Chertoff acknowledged the response to Katrina was unacceptable.
MICHAEL CHERTOFF, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: I want to be clear. As the secretary of homeland security, I am accountable and accept responsibility for the performance of the entire department, good and bad.
MESERVE: But he rejected criticism from former FEMA director Michael Brown and others that his agency's single-minded focus on terrorism left it unprepared for a natural disaster.
CHERTOFF: I unequivocally and strongly reject this attempt to drive a wedge between our concerns about terrorism and our concerns about natural disasters. That kind of wedge makes no sense.
MESERVE: Chertoff said he is addressing some of the shortcomings in communications, logistic and debris removal exposed by Katrina and is trying to better coordinate communication and command at the top to avoid what the House committee found in Katrina. As the report said, "Because everybody was in charge, nobody was in charge."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE: Some on Capitol Hill think it is no coincidence that Chertoff is trying to focus attention on the future rather than the past because tomorrow he appears before the Senate committee probing the Katrina response -- Lou.
DOBBS: If a Homeland Security Department secretary says himself that he is responsible for his department and that he is accountable, does that mean he is resigning or will be fired?
MESERVE: No, it means that he is trying to make the changes within the department that he thinks will make it more effective the next hurricane season.
DOBBS: In what way, then, one would ask, Jeanne, is he accountable?
MESERVE: Well, that's a question you'd have to ask him, I think. And I suspect he'll be getting that question tomorrow from -- from members of the Senate.
DOBBS: Jeanne, thank you very much week. We look forward to that question being posed to the secretary.
Thank you.
One of the president's top advisers today strongly defended the president's role during the Hurricane Katrina disaster. Homeland Security adviser Frances Townsend declared the president did everything possible to help state and local officials respond to the disaster.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRANCES TOWNSEND, HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISER: I reject outright the suggestion that President Bush was anything less than fully involved. He received regular briefings, had countless conversations with federal, state, and local officials, and took extraordinary steps prior to landfall.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Townsend went on to say that critics should not, as she put it, attempt to rewrite history.
The White House also on the defensive today after Vice President Dick Cheney accidentally shot a member of his hunting party over the weekend in Texas. Vice President Cheney was hunting quail at a ranch southwest of Corpus Christi when he shot the fellow.
Birdshot from the vice president's shotgun hit Texas attorney Harry Whittington in the face, neck and upper torso. Doctors today said Whittington is doing well.
At the time of the shooting, the White House listed the vice president's schedule as "unavailable." In this case, at least, "unavailable" apparently meant the vice president was out hunting and shooting.
The vice president's shooting accident dominated today's White House press briefing. Reporters bombarded White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan with aggressive questions about the accidental shooting and why the ranch owner, Katharine Armstrong, was the first to notify the media about this accident.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The vice president of the United States accidentally shoots a man and he feels that it's appropriate for a ranch owner who witnessed this to tell the local Corpus Christi newspaper?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you know they were turning it over to a private citizen?
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, in terms of my involvement, first of all, Saturday night I found out that there was a hunting accident. It was late Saturday night.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, as of Saturday night you didn't know, the White House did not know that Vice President Cheney...
MCCLELLAN: No, there were details coming in throughout that night.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Katharine Armstrong talked to CNN Sunday evening. She said that she thought this was going to become a story, so she was going to go to the local press. She also told CNN that she did not believe the vice president's office was aware that she was going to go to the local press.
How do you square that with your account that...
MCCLELLAN: The vice president spoke with her directly. And they agreed that she would make it public.
MALVEAUX: So you're saying that she's lying, that her...
MCCLELLAN: No. You -- you ought to check with her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Our White house correspondent, Dana Bash, now joins me from the White House.
Dana, what in the world was going on in that White House briefing room today?
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, I was sitting here yesterday afternoon when the news broke that a day earlier, the vice president had accidentally shot a man. So the multitude of questions you just saw in the White House briefing room, the same that we were asking yesterday.
And that essentially boils down to, why did it take 24 hours for this information to become public knowledge and why did the vice president defer to a public citizen, his host, the owner of the ranch where this was, to get that information out to her local paper?
Now, it did apparently become clear that Harry Whittington, the man who was shot, was OK. He was taken to the hospital, but it was apparently clear he was OK Saturday night. However, what they say here is that the vice president and his guest there -- or his host there, I should say, didn't talk about getting this out to the public until Sunday morning, and it was then over breakfast, we are told, they decided to get this out to the local paper.
Now, they say here that it was simply a case of common courtesy, that the vice president wanted defer to his host. That is certainly what some of the vice president's colleagues and some of his old friends are saying. But they also -- at least one, Alan Simpson, the former senator from Wyoming, a very close friend of Mr. Cheney, concedes that this is a window into how he operates, Lou. There are oftentimes when we do not know what his regular workday schedule is. We do not know with he goes on retreats or recreation like this. And there have been times when we haven't found out that he personally has been hospitalized until hours after it happens -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well, Dana, I suppose if it had been on public land, the Bureau of Land Management or something of that sort, the vice president's office, would deferred to the secretary of the Department of Interior. It's a bit peculiar, to say the very least, that it took this long.
But the White House press corps, my gosh, Dana. Are they aware that there's a record trade deficit, that there is an illegal immigration crisis, an absence of border security, turning over port operations to countries with ties to the 9/11 hijackers?
BASH: Yes, all of those things, and all those things come up routinely at White House briefings, Lou. I think this is -- really boils down to one fundamental question, is the public's right to know and those people who cover the president and the vice president, the responsibility is to get information and to get information out to the public as quickly as possible.
And even Scott McClellan very much acknowledged that this is not the way he operates. That he gave examples of times when it was the president, when he got into accidents, for example, one in Scotland, the White House got this information out there right away. So you did get a sense that perhaps from the president's staff this isn't the way they would have operated.
DOBBS: Well, from now on, whenever we hear the vice president is at an undisclosed location or his scheduled, as we reported, says he's unavailable, there will be nervous -- there will be a few nervous folks around the country, I suspect.
BASH: Maybe.
DOBBS: Dana, thank you very much.
Dana Bash.
BASH: Thank you.
DOBBS: Well, as we reported, White House reporters today all but ignored other critically other issues facing this country such as the illegal immigration crisis and our exploding trade deficit with China.
During McClellan's press briefing we decided to take a survey. Reporters asked 65 questions about the vice president's accidental shooting of his hunting partner. The White House press corps asked only 17 other questions about other issues, including five on Hurricane Katrina, four on Iran's nuclear ambitions.
Federal officials say there's been a sharp increase in Communist China's blatant efforts to steal the latest in U.S. military technology. Communist China has set up a huge network of front companies in this country, more than 4,000 of them with the specific objective of stealing our weaponry and to ship them out of the United States. Beijing is not the only country that is, of course, trying to steal American military technology.
Christine Romans reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): U.S. night vision goggles, sensor and chemical kits to Iran. Sensitive equipment illegally sold to China, likely for its weapons program.
Just last week, details emerged of an attempt by China to buy an F-16 engine, air-to-air missiles, surface-to-air missiles and Black Hawk helicopter parts.
ANTHONY MANGIONE, IMMIGRATION & CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT: It's munitions, technology, weapons, going to governments, terrorist organizations and groups around the world.
ROMANS: Immigration and Customs Enforcement says they are all aggressively in the market for sensitive American military technology. But none more vigorously than China.
PETER LEITNER, CENTER FOR ADVANCED DEFENSE STUDIES: China has been and still is the greatest proliferator on the planet. We're buying their pocket combs and their little tape decks, and they're using that same money to steal our F-16 engines and satellite technology and night vision equipment and everything else that isn't nailed down.
ROMANS: Through arms brokers, students, and scientists, and a vast network of spies, approximately 4,000 front companies and legitimate joint ventures, funneling nuclear and missile technology to Iran, North Korea and countless other countries and groups. ICE says China is getting even more aggressive in its attempts to steal or smuggle U.S. military gear.
PHILIP COYLE, CENTER FOR DEFENSE INFORMATION: Countries want to understand this technology, and spying is quite endemic. Even our friends spy on us, as well as potential enemies.
ROMANS: And ICE says Iran has been consistently trying to steal and smuggle F-14 parts and hawk missiles for its aging military.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: National security experts blame the current and previous administrations for failing to prevent the outright theft of American military secrets. They see a complete breakdown in keeping export controls, keeping this important technology out of our enemies' hands.
DOBBS: It is extraordinary. The number of our committed people working in Border Patrol, working in ICE and Customs Enforcement and our FBI, throughout all of these agencies, and to have this administration absolutely ignoring the threat posed by having more than 4,000 front -- and they are perfectly aware of it -- 4,000 front companies in this country, Chinese, communist Chinese companies, with the specific purpose of stealing technology. And to respond in no way at all.
ROMANS: Peter Leitner says today he thinks there are tens of thousands of spies living in this country whose sole mission is to get this out of the country.
DOBBS: There are none so blind as those who will not see, I this is the way that one goes. And this administration has a lot to answer for on this issue.
Christine Romans, thank you.
Still ahead here, Mexican leaders join forces with our nation's open border activists. This could be the beginning of a beautiful, beautiful friendship.
We'll have the story.
And the Bush administration's so-called temporary guest worker program now under attack from an official inside the Bush administration.
And why some of our nation's most important and sensitive seaports could soon be under the control of an Arab firm, the country that has ties to the September 11 hijackers.
We'll have that special report for you. And we'll tell you why the Bush administration fully approves.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight, this nation's open border movement has found itself some new friends. These border security opponents joined forces this weekend with their Mexican government counterparts at a rally in California. They even won the support of a high-ranking Mexican government official who decided to make the trip across the border.
Casey Wian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Latino groups from both sides of the U.S. Mexico border held a summit to demonstrate opposition to the Sensenbrenner security border security legislation. Organizer Armando Navarro began by quoting Venezuela's Hugo Chavez, prediction a socialist revolution stretching from the tip of South America to northern Canada.
Then came a procession of open borders activists, including the Brown Berets and MEChA, the radical Latino college group that advocates returning the American Southwest to Mexico. "We are a community without borders," says this Chicago activist.
There were signs proclaiming North America a stolen continent and saying all of those of European descent here are the real illegal aliens.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not their land. This is not their continent. This is our continent.
WIAN: Even the conference program said it was being held in Riverside California, Aztlan, the name given to the American Southwest by those who claim it rightfully belongs to Mexico. So it was no surprise that Mexican state senator Raymundo Cardenas attended to demonstrate Mexico's opposition to the Sensenbrenner bill. It calls for tougher criminal penalties against illegal aliens and their employers, and for a wall along 700 miles of the Southwest border.
Mexico plans to send an official anti-Sensenbrenner delegation to Washington this week.
The speaker of California's state assembly also chimed in through a videotaped message.
FABIEN NUNEZ, CALIFORNIA ASSEMBLY SPEAKER: I'm honored to fight against the Sensenbrenner approach to immigration policy. This legislation is a flashback to those failed polarizing policies of the past.
WIAN: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT even made the summit agenda thanks to a group of open borders advocates now caravaning from Tijuana to Washington, D.C.
ALEJANDRO HAMADA, GENTE UNIDA: They will be in Atlanta protesting before the CNN studios, the Lou Dobbs racist program that they have there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, hey...
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: Ho, ho...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lou Dobbs...
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: ... has got to go.
WIAN: And here they are protesting in Atlanta, even though the program originates from New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT is in good company. Open borders advocates have also announced a boycott of Wisconsin cheese because Wisconsin is the home state of Congressman Sensenbrenner, chief sponsor of the border security bill -- Lou.
DOBBS: This is extraordinary. This is taking on quite a, if you will, a racist tone, suggesting that -- making a delineation between Europeans and Hispanics. This kind of language is remarkable. WIAN: It really is, considering the fact that a lot these open border activists call the Sensenbrenner border security bill and any other effort to tighten border security racist, yet they're saying all Europeans should -- or all people of European descent should go back to Europe.
DOBBS: It's remarkable, and it is probably helpful to the public to understand the impulses that are at work here with these open border activists, whether it be Aztlan, MEChA, whatever the group might be. Many of them with extraordinarily close ties, if not direct links, to the Mexican government.
WIAN: Lots of messages from these groups. Lots of scary messages. The one thing is, they're not very unified.
They -- a lot of them are calling for simply relaxing immigration laws, many others are calling for no borders. So I guess as long as there's so disjointed, they may not be as big a threat -- Lou.
DOBBS: Casey Wian, we thank you, sir.
That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. Which do you believe is the most effective way to address our illegal immigration crisis in this country: enforce existing immigration laws, build a border fence, pass the president's guest worker amnesty program, or simply hand the Southwestern United States over to Mexico?
Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results coming up here later in the broadcast.
The president's so-called temporary guest worker plan for illegal aliens is under attack from fellow Republicans on Capitol Hill. Now a high-ranking official within the Bush administration also says the president's plan might be unworkable. His name, Emilio Gonzalez, the man in charge of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services.
Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The president is making a guest worker program a centerpiece of his agenda. Legislation introduced in the Senate would grant illegal workers in the United States temporary legal status. It would fall to the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services to process the tens of millions of applications.
Is the agency ready for that?
EMILIO GONZALEZ, DIR., CITIZENSHIP & IMMIGRATION SERVICES: Quite frankly, from what I've been exposed to, the IT systems at USCIS are very, very antiquated. If you layer on top of that some kind of temporary worker program, I don't think the systems -- in fact, I know the systems that exist right now wouldn't be able to handle it.
SYLVESTER: Those words are from the new head the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services during his confirmation hearing last year. We asked to interview Emilio Gonzalez, but our request was turned down. USCIS is already swamped. A GAO report highlighted a backlog of one million cases.
REP. TOM TANCREDO (R), COLORADO: Can you imagine what would happen in that kind of a situation if you just dumped on them the requirement to do 10, 15, 20 million background checks to determine whether or not that people could be here -- could remain here as guest workers?
SYLVESTER: President Bush has proposed spending $250 million for the guest worker program. But critics say Citizenship and Immigration Services would still come up short on money and manpower.
ROSEMARY JENKS, NUMBERUSA: If Congress passes a law that tells the agency to implement some kind of program, you know, in the short term, like within the next two years, it's going to be a rubberstamp program. There are folks at the White House who just don't want to hear it and don't hear what they don't want to hear.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: Rubberstamping applications would lead to an increase in fraud, but also leaves a wide open door for terrorists and other criminals.
Critics say Congress needs to come up with a realistic enforcement system to process these many, many applications before even discussing a guest worker program -- Lou.
DOBBS: And the Senate this month takes up the issue.
Lisa, thank you very much.
Lisa Sylvester from Washington.
Still ahead, after slowly spreading over the past few months, the deadly avian flu is showing up in several new countries in just one weekend. We'll have that story for you.
And President Bush hoped for a post-State of the Union bounce in the polls, but he can't be happy with the new numbers that we're going to be showing you here tonight. We'll have the special report.
And then, selling out national security. Why an Arab company could soon be controlling key U.S. seaports.
We'll have that special report for you next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The global bird flu crisis deepened over the weekend. Seven nations announcing new bird flu outbreaks, and for the very first time a Western European nation has announced its first cases of the bird flu.
Morgan Neil reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MORGAN NEIL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The usually tranquil seaside town of Staboros (ph) is now the focus of international alarm. Several of the swans that normally grace its harbor have died, victims of the deadly H5N1 bird flu virus.
Officials have removed dead birds from local beaches, and the government has ordered a quarantine on eggs and poultry within a three-kilometer radius. Avian flu has arrived in much of southeastern Europe. Slovenia is awaiting results of lab tests on dead swans, while Bulgaria and Romania have both confirmed cases.
Across the Adriatic, the first outbreak in Italy. Several dead swans in the south tested positive for the H5N1 strain.
In Europe, the arrival of bird flu may be cause for concern, but for Nigeria, it threatens an economic crisis. An estimated 100,000 birds here have died in a country where poultry is an important source of income and food for millions. Poultry markets are still open, but countries across Africa have banned imports of Nigerian bird.
Experts from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control have arrived to help cull birds in the north of the country, and tests are being done on a family that lived close to one of the infected farms after two children fell ill.
Another country suddenly dealing with bird flu, among its many troubles, Iraq. The virus has been detected in several areas, Amara in the south, Falluja in the west, and now the Kurdish north.
DR. JOHN BOWERSOX, U.S. EMBASSY HEALTH ATTACHE: We know the economic situation here is difficult. We know that communications are difficult. And we -- we want to make sure that they do have the resources that are needed to control this epidemic outbreak in birds.
NEIL: At least one Iraqi girl has died from the H5N1 virus. And there are several other suspected cases.
Health ministries around world are on the lookout for cases of human-to-human transition. Though there are no confirmed cases so far, that remains the big fear among health experts.
Morgan Neil, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Bird flu has now broken out in 25 countries worldwide. Humans have come down with the disease in seven countries, and at least 90 people have now died as a result of the bird flu.
More now on our top story.
A congressional committee this week will release a blistering report on the failure of the government, government at all levels, to respond adequately to Hurricane Katrina. This report will accuse Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff of being detached, former FEMA director Michael Brown of being clueless.
Jeanne Meserve with the story from Washington -- Jeanne.
MESERVE: Lou, the draft report from the House select committee called Katrina a national failure, a failure of initiative, a failure of leadership. They said the White House had not provided adequate counsel to the president and failed to de-conflict widely varying reports of damage. And it said Homeland Security Secretary Chertoff executed his responsibilities late, ineffectively, or not at all, delaying the dispatch of federal resources.
A Democratic minority report called for Chertoff to resign.
In a speech today, Chertoff assumed responsibility for what he called an unacceptable response, but he strongly disagreed with assertions that his department's focus on terrorism left it unable to respond to a national disaster.
Back to you, Lou.
DOBBS: Jeanne Meserve.
Thank you very much.
Tonight, the United States is about to allow a United Arab Emirates company to take operational control of many of this nation's major seaports. The Bush administration has OK'd a deal that would allow a company based on The Emirates it take charge of the ports. Many of them, most of them, vital to this nation's security. Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Dubai Ports World is set to take control of operations in ports in the United States. Those ports? New Orleans, Miami, Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York, and New Jersey. The deal involving a company from the Middle East is raising security concerns.
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER, (D) NEW YORK: How do we know what checks they take on their employees? do they do background checks? If a terrorist organization should decide to infiltrate this new company, headquartered in the United Arab Emirates, what would stop them.
TUCKER: The UAE was home to two of the 9/11 hijackers. The Port Authority of New York/New Jersey says it will review its lease agreements with P & O before automatically granting the lease the of The Newark Terminal to Dubai Ports World.
Defenders of the deal note that Dubai Ports World operates ports all over the globe and that safe, smooth, port operation are very much in its business's interests. Security will remain in the control of local and federal law enforcement authorities, but -- MICHAEL O'HANLON, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: Ports are essentially on the front line in the war on terror and on homeland security. And so allowing a foreign firm to operate a port is sort of like allowing a foreign firm to operate a U.S. military air field in a traditional conflict.
TUCKER: In other words, the United States should proceed cautiously. The Committee on Foreign investment in the United States, the same group which gave the green light to the takeover of UNOCAL by the Chinese National Overseas Oil Company has reviewed the deal of P & O and Dubai Ports World and given it its blessing.
When called for comment, a spokesman would only say -- no comment.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
Now coincidences happened but they're rare. So for that reason, we thought it was worth noting that the man nominated by President Bush to run the Maritime Administration is the director of operations of Europe and Latin American for Dubai Ports World, Lou. His name is David Sanborn.
DOBBS: And this coincidence and this program looks to at coincidences intensely, particularly like this and particularly with an administration that not for the first time has interesting coincidences reverberating throughout it. What do they say about this coincidence?
TUCKER: They don't have any comment about it. We weren't able to reach David Sanborn today.
DOBBS: Well, we hope that David would talk to us. We would hope that anyone in the administration would like it talk to us about this coincidence. And it would be fascinating to understand why the same government that thinks there's no problem, this administration, with turning over ownership to foreign corporation and companies of our air carriers sees no problems with having the United Arab Emirates, a company based there, take over our vital seaports. It's remarkable. Excellent job of report, Bill Tucker. Thank you, sir.
DOBBS: This week, the American public may finally have some answers to many of the questions surrounding the Able Danger controversy. Able Danger hearings are now set for Wednesday on Capitol Hill. The hearings will be held by subcommittees of the House Armed Services Committee.
The witness list has not yet been released, but sources tell this broadcast that Lieutenant Colonel Anthony Shaffer, the official who brought this to national attention will testify. Shaffer and other Able Danger Army intelligence officials say they were preventing from alerting the FBI about 9/11, radical Islamist terrorists a year before 9/11.
They say the information could have prevented the 9/11 attacks. We will continue to follow the story. Congressman Curt Weldon who has fought tirelessly for these open Able Danger hearings will be my guest here Wednesday evening.
Former 9/11 Commission member Tim Roemer will be our guest here Thursday. And Emmy Award winning journalist Peter Lance, who's written extensively on Able Danger, is our guest here Friday.
Four American troops were killed today in a roadside bomb attack in Afghanistan. The troops' Humvee hit an improvised explosive device while they were on patrol with Afghan soldiers in Central Afghanistan. After that explosion, the patrol came under small arms and rocket propelled grenade fire. The names of our troops are being withheld until family members can be notified.
Voters say the president's conduct on the war in Iraq is one of the most important issues facing this nation. For the past three months, President Bush has been on the offensive, trying to boost his poll numbers and to convince Americans he's on the right track, that the country's headed in the right direction.
Bill Schneider now reports on whether the president has succeeded.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): In November, growing discontent over the war in Iraq drove President Bush's job approval down to 38 percent. So the president went on the offensive. He gave a series of speeches aimed at rallying the American public.
November 30th, Annapolis.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We will never give in.
SCHNEIDER: December 12th, Philadelphia.
BUSH: We will accept nothing less than complete victory.
SCHNEIDER: January 10th, Washington.
BUSH: Our goal in Iraq is victory.
SCHNEIDER: The president's job ratings did go up, a bit, to 43 percent. The campaign peaked with the State of the Union speech.
BUSH: We are in this fight to win. And we are winning.
SCHNEIDER: So where is President Bush now? Back down to 39 percent. Americans here talk of victory, but they don't see it. Only 31 percent believe the United States and its allies are winning the war in Iraq. The majority believes neither side is winning.
The number who say the U.S. made a mistake sending troops to Iraq is up to 55 percent, the highest it's been since last September and Iraq syndrome may be setting in like the Vietnam syndrome that made Americans wary of military intervention for 15 years after the Vietnam War.
The U.S. now faces a dire threat from Iran.
BUSH: The nations of the world must not permit the Iranian regime to gain nuclear weapons.
SCHNEIDER: Only nine percent want the U.S. to take military action against Iran now. An additional 36 percent favor military action if diplomatic and economic efforts fail. Together, that equals the 45 percent who say the U.S. should not take any military action against Iran.
(on camera): Is that Iraq syndrome? Well consider this. The number of Americans who say they are concerned the U.S. will be too quick to use military force against Iran is slightly higher than the number concerned that the U.S. will not do enough to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons. Lou.
DOBBS: Bill, surely there has to be also some concern within those numbers, even though you didn't suggest this, there has to be some concern on the part of those surveyed that intelligence led by the United States is absolutely unreliable given what happened in Iraq. There has to be some concern that the United States would single handedly take on the issue of Iran without its partners in Europe in particular.
SCHNEIDER: Yes, of course. Americans in fact do believe that something needs to be done about Iran. They favor economic and diplomatic pressure at this point. They understand the United States can act only in concert with our allies.
But the idea of military intervention right now is very, very sour and receives very little support considering the fact that some 80 percent of Americans say, if Iran were to develop nuclear weapons, they would put them in the hands of terrorists who would use them against the United States. That's pretty dire.
DOBBS: It is dire. Those numbers, 39 percent approval rating for President Bush is also dire. It only adds to the numbers facing the Republican party in this midterm election year. And does it in fact suggest that concerns about Democrats taking over in Congress, one house or the other, perhaps both, are potentially to be realized?
SCHNEIDER: Well, they are at least well-founded concerns. Because people vote mostly on the incumbents which are the Republicans in both houses of Congress. They vote to keep them in or toss them out. Right now the Republicans feel as if something is going very bad and they're in trouble.
What Republicans in Congress are hoping to see, pressuring to see, is American troops starting to come home by November. They desperately need that to happen to make their case that the American commitment is winding down.
DOBBS: Well, at least the effort to reform lobbying on Capitol Hill is moving with almost breathtaking pace and the commitment, the earnest commitment on the part of the leadership in both houses is just heartwarming to see them to want to clean up their act in this, the best government that money could buy, wouldn't you say?
SCHNEIDER: Well, yes, I think the Republicans are acting fast on lobbying reform for a very specific reason. They want to get it off of the agenda. They want to say we've done that so it's not an issue in November.
DOBBS: Bill Schneider. Thank you very much.
President Bush didn't learn his lessons of the dangers of open microphones, six years after an open microphone caught him cursing a New York Times reporter President Bush has been caught again. It occurred during a House Republican retreat Friday. President Bush ushered reporters out of a room for a private session. But the microphones remained on. The president was heard saying to the Republicans attending the retreat, quote, "I support the free press. Let's just get them out of the room." End quote.
Taking a look now at some of your thoughts. David in Texas wrote in to say, "Oh, Lou, what are you complaining about again? Don't you see that the Chinese stealing U.S. arms is all part of free trade? Once they figure out how to re-engineer this technology from us too, then our government can buy our weapons systems from China, thus saving us billions of dollars. Thanks for straightening me out."
And Julian in North Carolina: "Lou, I bet you President Bush would argue that it's free trade, they're stealing our secrets and he is adopting their governmental philosophy."
And Randy in Indiana: "Isn't it ironic that we export our manufacturing jobs to China and they use the windfall to purchase our military secrets?"
And Clark in Massachusetts: "I'm starting to wonder if I should brush up on the five years of Spanish I took in high school, or just start trying to learn Chinese now. What do you think?"
We'll think about that awhile. Send us your thoughts at loudobbs.com. We'll have more of your thoughts here later in the broadcast.
And a reminder to vote in our poll tonight. The question, which do you believe is the most effective way to address our illegal immigration crisis in this country? Enforce existing immigration laws, build a border fence, pass the president's guest worker amnesty program, or simply hand the southwestern United States over to Mexico.
Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results coming up later.
Still ahead, the president's warrantless wiretapping program. Is it executive privilege or abuse of power? I'll talk with two distinguished guests, Victoria Toensing and Richard Epstein with very different views on the issue. Next, stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight the split within the Republican Party over the president's warrantless wiretap program is deepening. A rising number of Republicans now say Congress should consider changing federal wiretap laws and force more congressional oversight over the executive branch.
Joining me tonight is Victoria Toensing, she's the former deputy assistant attorney general. And Richard Epstein, he is professor of constitutional law at the University of Chicago, author the new book "How Progressives Rewrote the Constitution." Thank you both for being here.
Victoria, let me begin with you. Why in the world not go to FISA to, in some way, provide judicial oversight in wiretapping?
VICTORIA TOENSING, FORMER DEPUTY ASST. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, let me give you a short answer. FISA doesn't work because it was written in the 1970s when we didn't even know about fiber optics or computers or cell phones. But let me go back to the bases because I want to tell you why I believe in this basic premise. That is, I read the law to say that the president has the inherent constitutional authority to do a warrantless surveillance in the area of foreign intelligence information, not to shut down the banks, not to seize the steel mills.
DOBBS: Even in wiretapping American citizens?
TOENSING: Well, if the criterion is fulfilled, which is that one person is outside the United States and one person is in and that person -- one of the persons is affiliated with al Qaeda, yes.
DOBBS: Richard Epstein, your thoughts?
RICHARD EPSTEIN, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO: I disagree with the phrase "inherent constitutional authority." I think the division of authority that's set out in the constitution says that Congress shall have the power to make the rules for the government and regulations in land and able forces, which is basically, they set the rule of the game and the president is commander-in-chief and forces the rules is done. FISA is one of the rules. I think in many ways it's antiquated as Victoria said, but I don't think that antiquation is in and of itself a justification for wholesale disregard of it with respect to the things that it covers, whatever counts as domestic surveillance.
DOBBS: Do you believe President Bush then is violating the law?
EPSTEIN: Yes, I do.
DOBBS: And with that violation, how can it be remedied? How should he be held accountable?
EPSTEIN: Well I don't want to hold him accountable in any kind of punitive sense. What I think we have to do is to figure out what's wrong with FISA and I think Victoria and I are at one on this, and then figure out what you're supposed to do in order to change it so as to make it workable on the one hand and not mightily intrusive or oppressive on the other. I think there are ways that that can be done, it's part through legislation, part through the reforming side, the executive branch.
DOBBS: Victoria.
TOENSING: Well let me go back to -- I don't make it up that the president has inherent constitutional authority. The courts have said so. The Supreme Court has not ruled on that specific issue but all the appellate courts who have ruled on it, including the FISA Court, recognized and they used the words inherent constitutional authority.
So there's not one court decision that I am aware of that says he doesn't have that authority. Now, here's the situation. Because FISA was written and on one part of FISA the Congress says, "Hey, this is the only way that you can do this." The other statement, it says, "unless there's another law." That's what they do in Congress, you know that, Lou. They do both ways so that you have to duke it out later like we're doing.
DOBBS: Well duke it out we will. We will continue to duke it out in the most, I must say civil and genteel manner. Victoria, Richard, we'll be back with you in just a moment. We'll continue this discussion.
Also ahead, we'll have more of your thoughts and e-mails. We'll be right back, stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Coming up at top of the hour here on CNN, "THE SITUATION ROOM" and Wolf Blitzer.
Wolf, tell us all about it.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Lou.
A CNN exclusive, my interview with the United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan. He met with the president earlier in the day then he came here to "THE SITUATION ROOM."
Also, the vice president shoots a fellow hunter. We'll have more on the story. Why the news was kept quiet for a day. Who knew what and when. Why wasn't the American public informed right away? We're asking some of the tough questions.
Plus, a failure of leadership. That's what a Republican committee calls the federal response to Hurricane Katrina. We're taking a closer look, Lou. All that coming up right at the top of the hour.
DOBBS: And, Wolf, I understand the meeting between President Bush and Kofi Annan was really the secretary general's, some say, exit interview. How about that? BLITZER: It might have been the first time in two years he's been here in Washington, and he's getting ready to wrap up 10 years at the U.N.
DOBBS: All right. We'll look forward to the talk.
Thank you very much, Wolf.
Joining me now once again, Victoria Toensing. She is former deputy assistant attorney general. She believes the president has inherent constitutional authority to conduct these warrantless wiretaps. Richard Epstein, he's professor of constitutional law at University of Chicago and feels strongly that he does not.
Victoria, just cited every appellate court of which she's familiar upholding the president's right.
How do you respond, Richard?
EPSTEIN: Well, I mean, first of all, appellate courts are not the Supreme Court.
DOBBS: As she acknowledged.
EPSTEIN: Yes, and the Hamdi case on this certainly acknowledged certain kinds of power with respect to battlefield responsibilities but was noticeably silent on the question of how it deals with domestic wiretapping. So I think that the issue is still very much in play as a judicial matter.
TOENSING: This is not domestic wiretapping. That's a term of art in the Keys (ph) case. This is very different.
EPSTEIN: And I disagree with that. I mean it seems clear to me that to the extent that this stuff is not domestic wiretapping and it's not covered by FISA. There's no brouhaha. But of course there are cases which seem to fall within the scope of...
(CROSSTALK)
EPSTEIN: ...which are being ignored. And if that's the case...
TOENSING: Every single court -- just well, hold off just a minute here. Every single court that has looked at the situation says (INAUDIBLE) is domestic wiretapping. When it's out of the country, that's foreign intelligence.
That's why I have complained bitterly when CNN says domestic wiretapping, because that's term of art in the Keys case, and it really is all within the United States.
EPSTEIN: No I don't think so. I think it's much more than that. If this was...
TOENSING: You can think it, but the Supreme Court says otherwise. EPSTEIN: Well, we'll see what the Supreme Court says because sooner or later this issue will surely make its way up there.
DOBBS: Let me ask you both this question.
EPSTEIN: But the second point is that if you actually try to figure out what the location of that inherent power is as against the explicit congressional power to make rules for governance and regulation...
TOENSING: Well, let me make a point.
EPSTEIN: ...that's much more difficult to do.
TOENSING: Let me tell you what the FISA Court has said in 2002. They say that they believe in the inherent constitutional authority of the president. They assume that, and they say, therefore, FISA, the Congress, cannot encroach on that constitutional authority.
DOBBS: What if I say to you both, I want the federal government exhausting every resource to protect American lives from terrorists.
Let me finish, Richard.
And secondly, I want oversight for everything the federal government does when it intrudes into an American citizen's life. Give me judicial oversight. Give me congressional oversight. What's wrong that Victoria?
TOENSING: Well, there's nothing wrong with that except that the law that's in place right now doesn't cover that, and the president had the choice of either going ahead or looking at his watch and waiting for Congress to act. They still haven't acted, and they've known about this for the last three months.
DOBBS: You get the last word, Richard, quickly.
EPSTEIN: He's not done anything to ask for this. And so what happens is you have got a double game...
TOENSING: If you believe you have the constitutional authority to do it...
EPSTEIN: But you don't.
TOENSING: ...you don't ask for it. That would be against your legal premise.
EPSTEIN: That becomes an extravagant claim, and in fact if this claim is correct you could...
(CROSSTALK)
TOENSING: Well, we'll see.
EPSTEIN: ...any statute or any subject relating to war. DOBBS: Please come back and we will continue this discussion. We thank you for being here. We're really out of time.
Richard Epstein, Victoria Toensing, thank you very much both of you for being here.
And still ahead, we'll have more of your thoughts and e-mails, the results of our poll. We'll be right back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Taking a look now at some of your thoughts.
Chris in Connecticut wrote in to say, "Lou, I was striving to become part of the middle class. After viewing your show, I wish to become an illegal alien. Where do I sign up?"
And Debra in Ohio, "I finally connected the dots (off shoring, trade deficits, guest worker programs, lobbyists). Buy us on sale here or 'Bush' for short."
And Vic in New York, "Lou, why is it if someone breaks into my house I call the police an they are arrested and tried, but when they break into our country we hand them social services?"
You've got me.
And Mark in Minnesota, "Is it my imagination of have the violent protesters in the Middle East successfully muzzled the American press through intimidation and threats of more violence? Isn't this what terrorism is all about--convincing someone to modify his or her behavior through violence and the threat of it? Good job, I'd say. The radicals are winning and the American press have pulled their tails between their legs all in the interest of political correctness."
Michael says, "It seems to me that there is an awful lot of hatred and killing being done in the name of the so-called Allah and a lot of people who demand tolerance and acceptance without showing any.
Paul in Florida, "Dear Lou, if it takes lobbyists to move bills and laws in Congress then what does Congress do for a living?"
Another excellent question.
And Ken in Tennessee, "Lou, last night I dreamed we had a government of the people, by the people and for the people, but then I woke up."
And Bob in Texas, "With all the finger-pointing going on at our incompetent leadership in D.C. lately, feel compelled to point a finger too. Guess which one."
Send us your thoughts at loudobbs.com. Each of your e-mail that is read on this broadcast receives a copy of my book, "Exporting America." And if you want to sign up for our e-mail newsletter. Sign up at the web site, loudobbs.com.
The results of our poll tonight, 59 percent of you say the most effective way to address the illegal immigration crisis in this country is to simply enforce existing laws, 31 percent said build a border fence, two percent passed the president's guest worker amnesty program and eight percent said simply hand the southwestern U.S. over to Mexico. That's the breakdown of the poll tonight.
Thanks for being with us. Please join us here tomorrow when our guests will include Senator Tom Coburn. The senator campaigns tirelessly against government waste and pork barrel spending. It is a practice that has made him less than popular among his colleagues, and that is just fine with the senator. He will be here. We hope you will too.
For all of us here, good night from New York.
"THE SITUATION ROOM" starts right now with Wolf Blitzer--Wolf.
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