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Nancy Grace

New Evidence Emerges in Entwistle Murder Case

Aired February 13, 2006 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, the country waits. Will Neil Entwistle`s extradition to the U.S. to face Lady Justice actually go down? Entwistle accused of killing his wife and 9-month -- old baby girl. Tonight, new evidence emerges as to motive for murder. Digging deeper into Entwistle`s mysterious life on the Internet. New revelations that Entwistle trolled the Web just before the killings to sex sites and sites on committing murder and suicide.
And tonight, alleged father-and-son murder team have a private time together unmonitored by jailhouse sheriffs. Why? Did they cook up a story on the eve of trial, the trial of attorney Perry March for the long- unsolved murder of his own wife?

Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. I missed you last week. Tonight, breaking news. Live to Nashville. What were they thinking? Authorities let an alleged father-and-son killing team, Arthur March and his lawyer son, Perry March, co-defendants in a murder conspiracy case, have a private alone time, unmonitored jailhouse strategy meeting with each other. Lady Justice must be spinning like a top tonight! That`s time for them to construct their stories.

But first tonight, Mother Nature intervenes in the mom and baby double murder case against Neil Entwistle, the 27-year-old Brit accused in the Massachusetts shooting death of his wife, Rachel, and their 9-month-old baby girl, Lillian. Will Entwistle`s extradition from native Great Britain go forward, or will this blizzard, the blizzard of 2006, give Entwistle time to back out of the deal?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He has consented (ph) at the earliest opportunity, because he wants to cooperate with the authorities in any way that he can, and he`s anxious that a delay may cause his late wife`s family and his own additional distress, something he wishes to avoid.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The final legal hurdle on this side of the Atlantic has been cleared. British home secretary Charles Clark (ph) has signed an order authorizing the extradition of Entwistle. Clark`s office says these cases can vary, but Entwistle could be back in the U.S. within a day or two. Once there, he will be taken into U.S. custody immediately. If convicted of the murder of 27-year-old Rachel Entwistle and their 9- month-old daughter, Neil Entwistle would face life imprisonment without parole.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: OK. Let me get this straight. Twenty-seven-year-old Neil Entwistle blames Mother Nature for his delay in returning home, afraid that the snow would cause his in-laws further distress? They just buried your wife and 9-month-old baby girl in one casket together! You know, that took a lot of nerve.

Straight to the editor-in-chief much "The Metrowest Daily News," Richard Lodge. Richard, have I lost my hearing, or is that the word, that he`s upset that the in-laws are going to grieve because he`s late getting back? He is the one that originally fought extradition.

RICHARD LODGE, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, METROWEST DAILY NEWS: Well, that`s right, Nancy. It`s unlikely the snow will be anything to cause a delay of Neil Entwistle`s return to the U.S. The roads are clear. The airports open. I think he`ll be coming back this week.

GRACE: What is the time schedule we are looking at, Richard? What happens next?

LODGE: Well, the U.S. Marshals Service is responsible for bringing Entwistle back to the U.S.. and from what we`re hearing, he`ll probably be coming back Wednesday for arraignment.

GRACE: Coming back Wednesday for arraignment. To Richard Lodge, typically, in that courthouse, the Middlesex County courthouse, what time is the trial calendar and the arraignment calendars? It`s 9:00 o`clock, I assume.

LODGE: Probably, but it`s actually an arraignment in Framingham District Court. That`s how it works in Massachusetts. And then if the case gets bumped up to a higher court, it would go to Superior Court in Cambridge.

GRACE: Now, why -- why would it not be bumped up to superior court? Isn`t that where felonies are tried?

LODGE: Yes, that`s correct. It`s just almost a legal formality to be arraigned in district court, and then the case is moved to a higher court.

GRACE: Is this more like a preliminary hearing, Richard, where a judge decides which court the case should go to, then it will go to a felony court, a superior court?

LODGE: Well, I think the lawyers would have to speak to that. But again, an arraignment in Massachusetts takes place in district court, and you face charges there and enter a plea.

GRACE: Richard Lodge is with us, editor-in-chief of "The Metrowest Daily News." All right, forget all the legal mumbo-jumbo about arraignment. That`s very simply a formal accusation read in court. Let`s talk about the big news today, the breaking news today, the release of the search warrants and the return on those search warrants. What do we know about what police were looking for, Richard, in the car, in the home, on the computers? Bring me up to date, new evidence regarding motive for murder.

LODGE: Well, Nancy, more than 200 pages of court documents were released today, and they tell quite a story, a lot more information now about what police believe might have been the motive. They`ve said it before, but it looks like financial problems. Neil Entwistle apparently was hiding his financial strife from his wife. She didn`t know much about it. She even told her mother-in-law, according to police, that a lot of their money was kept in an off-shore account.

When her mother-in-law was questioned at one point by police, and she said she`d never seen Neil use cash, he always used credit cards -- it turns out, just a few days before Rachel and her daughter were murdered, the Entwistles had about $6,000 of furniture and bedding delivered to the home. So they were still going into debt, even as this tragedy was approaching.

GRACE: To Peter Bellotti, former Middlesex County prosecutor. He knows the trial attorney in this case. He also works for the family spokesperson, attorney Joe Flaherty. Peter, thank you for being with us. There`s nothing worse to turn prosecutors into sharks that smell blood than the mention of off-shore bank accounts. You know, when I had a drug prosecution and I found out there were off-shore bank accounts, nothing would make me happier.

PETER BELLOTTI, FORMER MIDDLESEX CO. PROSECUTOR: Well, in all likelihood, there probably aren`t any off-shore bank accounts.

GRACE: Probably not.

BELLOTTI: I mean, one of the things that Neil Entwistle was trying to do was, he was trying to succeed in businesses. He was trying to succeed and support his family. I think he had created a bit of a facade in terms of what he was able to do. And he was living well beyond his means. When his wife, Rachel, realized what was going on, she then questioned him. She had never seen him with cash. She realized that he wasn`t working. And so at some point, there must have been some sort of at least discussion, if not confrontation, about the family finances. But in terms of...

GRACE: Whew! Whoa, whoa, whoa! Wait a minute -- $25,000 in student loans, $8,000 in credit card debt -- oh, Elizabeth, could you put that up, please -- $8,000 with one credit card company, about $3,000 a month rent -- hey, you could buy for that -- a $500 car lease on that fancy BMW, $660 dollars on business debt for his sham Internet activity. And that`s not all, Richard Lodge with "Metrowest Daily." Seems to me he was on the verge of spending quite a bit of money on escorts. I`m talking about hookers, eye candy entertainment, exotic express, sweet temptations. Explain.

LODGE: ... what was in some of the court documents today, that days before Rachel and Lillian were murdered, apparently, Neil was on a computer searching Web sites, checking out escort services. This is what the police are alleging, that he visited a swingers` site. They also found...

GRACE: Oh, yes, adult friend finder.

LODGE: Yes.

GRACE: There`s nothing like it.

LODGE: Yes, apparently...

GRACE: Where married people hook up, no strings attached.

LODGE: Yes. Police are saying that he was searching these sites. They found evidence that he might have printed out some maps or searched for locations on Yahoo! and other sites, possibly to find the locations of escort services. There`s nothing in the court papers that I could find that says he actually met up with anybody, he actually visited anybody.

GRACE: Well, I can guarantee you, Richard, if he did, he used his credit card.

To Clark Goldband, our Internet blogger. Clark, what can you tell us? what did we learn from the search warrant today?

Breaking news, everyone. Search warrants and their returns in the Entwistle case have been made public regarding Entwistle`s Web use. And this is all just before the double murder of his wife and daughter.

CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE INTERNET BLOGGER: Well, exactly right, Nancy. I think, at the very least, he has a little bit of explaining to do. The first site here is adultfriendfinder.com, "Where sexy swingers meet." Now, this is a site, as you said, married or unmarried people log on, and you can choose what you want to participate in -- one-on-one sex, group sex, which is defined here as three or more...

GRACE: Clark, Clark, Clark, Clark! You`re too young to even say the words "group sex," all right? I don`t want to hear that from you again. Go ahead.

GOLDBAND: Well, I can tell you about some other activity we learned...

GRACE: Go ahead.

GOLDBAND: ... he partook in on the Internet, in this search warrant, Nancy. Neil Entwistle was searching for keywords on search engines. And while we don`t know what search engine he used, we do know some of the words he used. He typed in these phrases, Nancy, "methods of killing," "suicide," "how to kill with a knife" and "euthanasia."

GRACE: How close to the murders of his wife and 9-month-old baby girl were these Internet searches, Clark?

GOLDBAND: Nancy, it was within the same week.

GRACE: Why wouldn`t Entwistle have had the brains to delete all this? Of course, we know you can get it off the hard drive, unless you take the hard drive out into the driveway and beat with a sledgehammer. But a lot of people do believe you can erase your memory by simply deleting it.

GOLDBAND: Well, Nancy, that`s not exactly true. When you do erase something on the computer, it does vanish, but it doesn`t vanish completely. What it does is, it goes to the bottom of the queue, and it`s going to be the last thing to be saved over. So that file is not gone from the hard drive, it simply is at the bottom of the line. And then once the whole hard drive is filled up, that space will be used. So it`s never really gone. And as we see time and time again on this program, criminals never learn nothing can be permanently deleted.

GRACE: Here is what the elected district attorney, Martha Coakley, had to say on our show.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTHA COAKLEY, MIDDLESEX COUNTRY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: He had access both to the house -- and the gun was properly secured, but he also knew where the key to that was. And so without much difficulty, he could have easily let himself into the home on -- again, we`re not sure when he took the firearm because Rachel`s family never knew it was missing. But it would have been a fairly easy matter for him to go back down Friday, enter the house and replace the gun from where he had taken it.

Premeditation can be a tenth of a second. And so we`re not -- we`re still unraveling some of this. And it certainly says that there was an intent to -- if -- if this is the person who did it, there was an intent to pull the trigger, there was an intent to kill, intent to murder. And so it`s fairly specific in Massachusetts law that, if these facts, as alleged, are true, then a jury could find that someone is guilty of premeditation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Martha Coakley, a veteran trial lawyer, now the elected DA in that jurisdiction. And she is right. Across the country, pretty much uniformly, premeditation or intent to perform a crime, commit a crime can be formed in an instant, in the blinking of the eye, in the time it takes to raise a weapon and pull the trigger, within those few moments. That satisfies premeditation under the law.

Back to Internet blogger Clark Goldband. Clark, what about these maps on Mapquest? Where was he trying to go?

GOLDBAND: Well, from what we understand and what`s come back from the search warrant, Nancy, he was trying to find some of these escort services. And these escort services -- as you know, we tried to reach some of them for comment today. They weren`t too accessible, but it looked like he was trying to find something.

GRACE: OK, Clark.

Very quickly, to Chuck Smith, former homicide prosecutor out of California. Let`s talk about Trial 101, Chuck. It`s very simple. You`ve used it before, evidence of flight. What does it prove, in this case, that he took off to Great Britain and stayed there with his mommy and daddy while the bodies were found, while the bodies were recovered, while the crime scene was processed, and during their funerals.

CHUCK SMITH, FORMER CALIFORNIA HOMICIDE PROSECUTOR: Well, every jurisdiction has an instruction which would be given to the jury in which the jury would be told that evidence of flight shows a consciousness of guilt. It is not sufficient by itself to prove guilt, but the jury may consider it, along with all the other circumstances, as part of the puzzle of guilt that the prosecutor is trying to put together.

In this case, it`s a little bit odd, it`s a little bit strange, and the prosecution has to be careful because we can call it flight, but the defense argument, of course, will be, Well, was he wasn`t fleeing, he went right to the very first place that someone would look for him, his parents` home. But still, it`s powerful, and it`s a piece of the puzzle and every jurisdiction recognizes it. And that instruction can be used by a skilled prosecutor effectively.

GRACE: And to Lisa Wayne, a veteran defense attorney, to counter that, now some jurisdictions tell the jury in the pattern (ph) jury charges that while you can hear evidence of flight, the judge cannot give you any law saying that you can presume evidence of guilt. Lisa, I`ll tell you why he`s in more of a problem than hiding out in Great Britain. He talked to police for two hours, Lisa. I know you`re cringing on the inside, you`re crying, you`re crying on the inside, I can tell. He talked to police without a lawyer for two hours, and during that time, Lisa -- I don`t know if you`ve gotten to read all 300 pages of the documents yet -- he told police that he went out at 7:00 AM to run some errands. He comes home at 11:00 AM, and his wife and his baby are dead.

So he leaves, goes to the airport, doesn`t call 911, doesn`t try to resuscitate them. He says he saw minimal blood, not -- he saw a lot of blood, not what police say, that he covered them with a blanket. He saw both mom and baby had been shot. The police say the gunshots were not visible because they were with a .22-caliber.

But Lisa Wayne, what jury will believe a man finds his wife and child dead and flees to Great Britain?

LISA WAYNE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I think you`re absolutely right in terms of -- it`s bad. It`s bad when you have a defendant who puts himself and his own words in a situation where he`s going to have a lot of explaining to do. And that`s why, as defense lawyers, you do cringe because I don`t know how much of what he says this that search warrant is taken out of context. I don`t know the entire two hours of his statement. And I don`t know if it`s audiotaped or if there is some way that this statement he supposedly made is documented.

But again, the things that he said are bad, and a defense lawyer is going to have to scrutinize that and he`s going to now have to come up with an explanation.

GRACE: Man, you`re not kidding because, Stacy Schneider, he was not under arrest at the time. Unless you`re being detained, the Miranda rights don`t apply to you. You can talk freely to police unless you`re in custody. So he`s over in Great Britain on the phone, yakking away. There`s really no way for the defense to suppress that.

STACY SCHNEIDER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No. He did it voluntarily, and it`s -- my heart sinks when a client of mine starts yapping to the police because then the defense -- any defense you`re planning is really limited. It`s out the door. I mean, they put their foot in their mouths. They need to request that the lawyer be present before they have any kind of conversation with law enforcement.

My understanding was these conversations were over a telephone with, you know, Massachusetts authorities, that they called him up and they knew where to find him, at his parents`. And he just basically blew his whole defense, whatever there might have been of one.

GRACE: You`re right, Stacy, in the sense that the defense is now limited to the story, the version he gave the cop on that phone conversation.

Very quickly -- we`ll all be right back -- to tonight`s "Case Alert." A SWAT team raids a Florida boarding house this weekend in a desperate search for missing 24-year-old Jennifer Kesse. A tipster told cops Jennifer was being held hostage inside that home. But when the search team got there, no sign of Kesse. The reward now up to $115,000. Please call 800-423-TIPS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE FLAHERTY, SPOKESMAN FOR RACHEL ENTWISTLE`S FAMILY: She really was the essence of a loving mother, of a loving daughter and a sister. She was very close to her family. Everyone that became a friend of Rachel`s became a very close friend, and everyone that had any contact with her loved her as a sister.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We believe that Neil Entwistle is winging his way back to America as we speak. He`s got a court date with Lady Justice we believe around Wednesday morning, 9:00 AM. We`ll find out.

To Peter Bellotti, former Middlesex County prosecutor. Peter, how is the family of Rachel and Lillian doing tonight?

BELLOTTI: Well, Joe Flaherty is the spokesperson for the family, but it`s my understanding that there`s still an enormous sense of grief. It`s still shocking to them. And it`s difficult, in such a public arena, when every detail is out in the public domain, and they`re trying to just struggle with their own mourning. So it becomes difficult for them. And they remain, at this point, unwilling to speak to anyone in the public.

GRACE: Peter, exactly how is Entwistle winging his way back to the U.S.? I mean, is he with a guard? Is he handcuffed down? After he`s already fled once, I`m concerned about security at the airport.

BELLOTTI: Physically, what happens is that the U.S. Marshals, likely Massachusetts State Police, as well -- he has leg-irons on, as well as handcuffs, and he would remain in shackles until he was brought into the courthouse. And even in the courthouse, you will likely see, if he`s arraigned Wednesday, that he`ll have handcuffs on.

GRACE: Right. Hopefully, on the plane, he will be in full shackles - - feet, hands tied to waist.

To Robi Ludwig, psychotherapist. Robi, tonight we learned from all these documents -- everyone, over 200, nearly 300 pages of documents released. I`ve been poring over there, of the search warrants, what police learned. I learned tonight more disturbing facts, specifically that this baby, baby Lillian, 9 months old, had bruising about the head and she had blood on the inside of her nose, suggested to me this child was hit.

ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes. Well, you know, it sounds like this is a man who felt that his family got in the way of him living the life that he wanted to live. And perhaps for a while, he was able to soothe himself with the things that he was buying. And when he could no longer do that, he went into a range, blamed his family, eliminated them so he could live the life he really wanted to live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COAKLEY: This is a very tragic and obviously of great interest to folks how this could have happened because it`s our worst nightmare, in some respects, mother, child -- it`s very -- it`s just -- it`s a very sad story.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: How it could happen? The murder of a pregnant wives and girlfriends across this country has become an epidemic. In this case, Rachel Entwistle had just given birth a few months before her murder, along were with her baby.

To Tom Shamshak, private eye and former police chief, what do you think, from your experience, what type of other evidence are we going to get off Entwistle`s computer?

TOM SHAMSHAK, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR, FORMER MASS. POLICE CHIEF: Well, I think the detectives have done a commendable job thus far. I think they`ll dig deeper to see how far back he had been engaged in this sordid activity, in his proclivity for on-line sex-capades, if you will. And I know that they`re also looking at -- if you saw in the material, they`re looking at the computer on board his automobile. They want to find out where he was in those several days. We do know, from reading the material, that he was at the airport, at least the first time, on the Thursday...

GRACE: Hold on. You got something by me, Tom. The computer in the automobile? Surprise, everybody, there could be a computer in your automobile? This is a BMW. Explain, Tom.

SHAMSHAK: It has an on-board computer that measures mileage and engine activity. And I think what they`re trying to do is establish a timeline on his whereabouts because he concedes in his statement to the police that he was at the airport and had left. And there was a receipt found in the BMW that indicated he was at the airport at 10:49 on Thursday, the 19th.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTHA COAKLEY, MIDDLESEX COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: It does not fit what you might think as a classic domestic situation where there`s a crime in the heat of passion. It didn`t appear to be a fight or a messy crime scene.

It also did not appear to be extremely well-planned out. The trip to London was not something, apparently, that he had thought about or that he was trying to make an escape. It doesn`t look like he -- in a classic case where you might be trying to collect on an insurance policy, we don`t have any of that here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Tonight, stunning new facts emerging revealing an online double-life on the part of 27-year-old Neil Entwistle, if his computer is to be believed or maybe his wife or his 9-month-old baby daughter logged on and looked up Adult FriendFinder, Eye Candy.

What was the other one, Clark Goldband?

GOLDBAND: Oh, Nancy, there were a whole host of them, Exotic Express, Sweet Temptations, and Blonde Beauties Escort Service (ph).

GRACE: Somehow I missed the Blonde Beauties and exotic what? Exotic what?

GOLDBAND: Exotic escort service.

GRACE: So, Stacy Schneider, defense attorney, I guess the defense can argue Neil Entwistle wasn`t the one looking these up online, it was some other dude.

SCHNEIDER: You know, Nancy, I`m sorry. I don`t see what this has to do with the murder case. I know...

GRACE: Uh, motive?

SCHNEIDER: I don`t see it as a -- so someone`s looking up escort services on the Internet and Mapquesting directions on how to have a prostitute during marriage? This is not that uncommon. I`m not condoning it, but it`s really not that uncommon. I don`t see how that`s a motive to murder. This is a forensic case.

GRACE: Now, let`s see. Let`s see.

SCHNEIDER: I don`t see the motive.

GRACE: Is that ringing a bell to you? Now, when has somebody, somebody famous, a famous defense lawyer said he`s guilty of being a cad but not a killer? Could it have been Mark Geragos of the Scott Peterson case, Chuck? I think I`ve got Chuck with me. Chuck, are you there?

SMITH: You know, I`d like to hear -- yes, I`m here, Nancy. Nancy, what I`d like to hear on this subject, I`d like to hear from Robi. Isn`t there a logical connection between, you know, the kind of man who`s going to spend his time watching the computer and going to these sites? It shows a lack of respect for women in general that you`re going to look for someone to just pay to have sex with you. It shows a lack of respect for your wife, certainly.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Oh, please, Chuck. Wait a minute. If every guy that went to a hooker committed a felony, there would be nobody working outside the jail right now, OK?

SMITH: I know, but it`s part of the profile, though. It`s absolutely part of the profile that we see, as you say, in the Peterson case, the same thing. It`s just so common, when we have cases of these guys killing their wives, that we see this side of their personality. They don`t think as much of their wives to prevent them from doing this kind of thing.

GRACE: What about it, Robi?

LUDWIG: They just think about themselves and they`re kind of lost in this whole idea about, "What about me?" And here is somebody who probably, you know, got confronted or did not want the cat out of the bag, did not want to be exposed, could not deal with that.

And so, instead of facing the music, he eliminated his family in this kind of perhaps wish that, if he eliminated his family, he would eliminate his problems. And then he had a whole host of other problems to deal with. So we`re dealing with a self-centered guy, who`s not really bright, not a winning combination.

GRACE: And of course, to Lisa Wayne, you`re a veteran defense lawyer. Of course, the prosecution doesn`t have to prove motive. It`s not up to the state to crawl in somebody`s head and figure out why.

But very often when you have these domestic homicides, as they are euphemistically called, you will see, like in the Scott Peterson case, like in the Dr. Dirk Greineder case, you see a married man going out with hookers, doing online activity, in financial trouble. It`s not motive for murder, but it does show an unhappy marriage, at least on their part.

WAYNE: Right. And you know what? The prosecution loves to use all this stuff, because if you don`t like him, then you`re going to be more apt to vote against him. But then the bottom line is the defense lawyer, their job is going to have to be to distinguish those things that show that maybe he was visiting prostitutes, maybe there was an unhappy marriage, and maybe they had financial problems, like a lot of marriages do, but that he did not commit this murder. And that`s what you have to focus on.

GRACE: Yes, you have to.

WAYNE: And you`ve got to get rid of the other stuff.

GRACE: And, Robi Ludwig, it`s like a red flag of alarm when your husband or mate refuses to give you financial information and says mysterious explanations like, "Oh, it`s in an off-shore account. You don`t need to know."

LUDWIG: Right, and he...

GRACE: Why do people settle for that?

LUDWIG: You know, he could have been very charming. And when you love somebody, you want to believe them. And perhaps she wanted to believe that they were the beautiful family that they appeared to be. They lived in this beautiful house. They had a great car...

GRACE: Robi, are you sitting down?

LUDWIG: I am sitting.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: OK, do you have on your seat buckle and your crash helmet?

LUDWIG: I do, just for you.

GRACE: Take a listen to what your colleague, another shrink, had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANIE JONES, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Sometimes when people get married, she might have agreed. She was working as a teacher, and then she might have had second thoughts when she had the kids and said, "You know what? I want to be a stay-at-home mom," which often happens.

And this conflict arises spontaneously, and men aren`t prepared for it, because women sometimes aren`t prepared for it. Sometimes women don`t even know that they`re not ready to go back to work. Sometimes they think they`ll want to go back to work and, in fact, they have second thoughts.

He ran right home where it was safe for him, where he was familiar, and that he probably didn`t want to leave in the first place. I mean, it was a tremendous sacrifice to leave his home that he was close to, his family, his friends, his job, and to come to the United States to live with her family to raise a family is a tremendous sacrifice for somebody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Robi Ludwig, I smell the stench of blaming the victim.

LUDWIG: Oh, boo-hoo.

GRACE: She sprung it on him, she grabbed him by the nose and then pulled him across the pond to the U.S., and forced him to mooch off her parents while he didn`t really have a job. This theory is going to be -- thank you -- this theory is going to be used at trial in support of some kooky insanity theory. It`s all the victim`s fault. She drove him to murder.

LUDWIG: Right. She didn`t go back to work, so clearly he had to kill. No, that does not work for me.

Hey, listen, it`s a very stressful time, and that`s what a lot of people don`t understand, when you have a baby. And, yes, it can bring up a lot of stressful moments for both the husband and the wife.

And perhaps at this moment in time he was looking elsewhere. The idea of having an affair or being with other women was intriguing to him. But here`s a guy who had no frustration tolerance, who was looking out for number one, and, quite frankly, probably felt that killing would lead him to a more enriched lifestyle. And that`s why he did what he did, at least in part.

SCHNEIDER: Nancy, Nancy...

GRACE: Who`s saying "Nancy," Liz?

SCHNEIDER: It`s Stacy.

GRACE: OK. Go ahead, Stacy.

SCHNEIDER: Plenty of couples across America have difficult marriages and weak finances. And plenty of partners in marriages cheat or go on the Internet and look at sites they really shouldn`t be looking at.

GRACE: True. True.

SCHNEIDER: That is not what everyone should be focusing on here. We`re jumping to conclusions that we know this couple.

GRACE: OK, Stacy, guess what? I agree. But how many men tell cops they ran errands 7:00 to 11:00 a.m., come home, find their wife and baby dead, and then run home to Mommy and Daddy in Great Britain, don`t even call 911. Can you think of any, in your experience?

SCHNEIDER: No, but now you`re talking. But this is what we should be focusing on, his behavior after those bodies were found. It`s the consciousness of guilt factor and the forensic evidence.

GRACE: But you know, Stacy...

(CROSSTALK)

SCHNEIDER: That`s where cases are made. Not on this nonsense.

GRACE: Stacy, a prosecutor cannot afford to leave any stone unturned. You don`t bring it up at trial, you lose the trial, it`s over. You don`t get a second swing at the ball. The state`s got to go with everything it`s got at its first murder trial.

To Clark Goldband, Internet blogger, tell me, what did they find from the home search?

GOLDBAND: Well, I think it`s important, Nancy, to note here throughout our conversation, it`s just not this cyber stuff, not just the online material. They found a knife block with ten knives, three black- handled knives, three pages of map printouts, presumably some of those involve these call-girl services, blood-stained pillows, and computers and disks.

GRACE: And what about the car?

GOLDBAND: Well, Nancy, again they found a lot out in the garage. The BMW was found at the airport with the keys inside. The in-laws` home keys found in the BMW. Neil`s DNA was found on the grip of the gun.

GRACE: Ouch.

GOLDBAND: And Rachel`s DNA was found -- I`m sorry?

GRACE: Ouch. Ouch. You know what, Clark? As I was watching you, as a matter of fact, with Jane Velez last week, we kept talking -- you guys kept talking about blowback possibly on the gun or on that type of DNA in the car. And I was thinking that`s going to be very unlikely.

But you are telling me, in fact, it has been found?

GOLDBAND: It has been found, Nancy. And I`m sure, from a defense standpoint, that`s going to be very hard to explain away.

GRACE: OK.

Let me take a look at that, Elizabeth. BMW found at airport, keys inside. In-laws` home keys found in BMW. Entwistle`s DNA found on the grip of the gun. Ouch. Rachel`s DNA found on the gun muzzle.

OK, everyone, before we take you across the country to a North Carolina case where an alleged father and son -- and, P.S., the son is the lawyer -- alleged father and son killing machine have a secret meeting.

I want to give you tonight`s "Trial Tracking." And as we speak right now, we believe Neil Entwistle on his way from Great Britain to a date with Lady Justice. Wednesday morning, 9:00 sharp.

Sentencing hearings today for Joseph Smith, convicted of raping and killing an 11-year-old little girl we came to love, Carlie Brucia. The jury that convicted him in November recommended the death penalty. Smith kidnapped Carlie as she walked home from a little girl friend`s house after a sleepover, a Saturday afternoon, Super Bowl -- Sunday afternoon, Super Bowl Sunday. The whole thing was caught on tape by a security camera.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERRY MARCH, ACCUSED OF MURDER: I walk around with my head straight up. I didn`t do anything wrong. Look for Janet, and stop looking at Perry. It`s a fiasco. It`s more untruths, speculation, hearsay piled on top of the other. I didn`t want to even comment on it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Speculation, hearsay? Sounds like a lawyer. Oh, he is a lawyer. That`s Perry March, and he is facing not one, not two, but three felony trials, including for the murder of his wife, for attempting to have his in-laws murdered and for stealing from his father-in-law in whose firm he worked.

But tonight`s discussion is about this girl, his wife. Her body still not found. And the latest tonight, the breaking news is that jailhouse officials allowed the father and son, two co-defendants in conspiracy to murder her in-laws -- just shoot them. Don`t want them to testify? Fine, get rid of them, kill them.

The sheriff`s allowed them to meet and have alone time just before the dad enters his guilty plea for nearly an hour. These two met and, I guarantee you, conspired.

To Willie Stern, reporter with the "Nashville Scene," one of the worst days of my life is when I was prosecuting a triple homicide and I found out the sheriffs had chained the five co-defendants together at about 5:00 a.m., put them on the transport bus, brought them to the courthouse, where they sat together until the 9:00 calendar call.

They had all this time to get their stories straight. You know how hard that nut was to crack, after they had their alone time, just like these two?

WILLIE STERN, REPORTER, "THE NASHVILLE SCENE": Yes. I mean, clearly the prosecution in Nashville is not happy that the meeting took place. It was 45 minutes. It was supervised by a jailhouse official, who was not within earshot. And it was not cleared with the prosecutors first. The jailers meanwhile...

GRACE: Ouch.

STERN: ... are saying the prosecutors never told us not to do it. We were just following standard operating procedure.

GRACE: Oh, leaving two guys accused of -- one of them accused of murder, two of them accused of conspiracy to commit murder, one accused of felony larceny.

To Chuck Smith, how bad is this?

SMITH: Well, it`s real bad, Nancy. But I have to ask you first, why, on the day before Valentine`s Day, are we doing these two stories about husbands killing their wives? You`re making us all look bad.

GRACE: Because...

SMITH: You know, it`s one of the...

GRACE: Wait, wait, wait, wait, just stop right there, sir. I respect you in the courtroom. But these murder cases in no way have a thing to do with the celebration of love.

And let me get back to the law on this. I don`t like to see domestic homicide joked about in any way.

Chuck, why is this so bad? What happened with these sheriffs? I`m sure they didn`t mean to do a bad thing.

SMITH: Well, first of all, that was one of the dumbest things -- the sheriffs said, well, they never asked us not to do it. Well, right, they never also asked you not to let them escape, but you should have figured that out on your own.

(LAUGHTER)

They had given a weapon to the defense here because the defense, obviously, is going to say the father, who was facing 20 years in life, which for him was a life sentence at age 78, the father has a motive to fabricate a story, to put the murder on his son...

GRACE: Right.

SMITH: ... so that the father only does 18 months now in a minimum- security facility.

GRACE: Yes, you`re right.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: You`re dead-on, Chuck. And here`s the problem. If you go ahead and sentence -- Pat Brown with us, high-profile criminal profiler -- you let these two meet alone. The father enters his plea. He gets sentenced. Then what happens at trial if he reneges on his original story? What about that, Pat?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, it certainly doesn`t look too good now, does it? Because they`re going to wonder, who was letting the ball drop? What are these guys doing together? And who is the honest one? Who is the honorable one?

And I want to say something about letting these guys get together. Last week when I was here, there was a lot of sympathy for this poor Daddy March, you know?

(LAUGHTER)

That he was an older man, and he has testify against his son. I said, "Why are you feeling sad for a guy who is an outright horrible criminal?" I mean, this is no guy to feel sad for. This is a dangerous duo.

But now we don`t know, when it goes to court, whether something was cooked up and which way, and who is more dangerous one, and who is manipulating who. And that is a huge defense tactic. And how the sheriff let that go by him -- this is a sheriff who...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: For 45 minutes.

And Willie Stern, with the "Nashville Scene," is with us. Mr. Stern, we remember when O.J. Simpson met with his friend, Rosie Greer, and the sheriffs heard an incriminating comment regarding the double murder of Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman, but then Judge Ito, in all of his wisdom, said Rosie Greer was there in capacity of a priest or preacher and did not allow the incriminating statement to come in?

This sounds like the same thing. You allow these two together. Sheriffs are there, but they claim they were out of earshot. Tell me this, Willie: How was the father supposed to achieve the double-murder on the wife`s parents?

STERN: Well, they actually -- it wasn`t the father. The father and the son, they got them on tape, allegedly, conspiring to hire a hitman, who was also serving the same jail with the son to kill the grandparents.

GRACE: OK. And the father`s part was what?

STERN: So it`s conspiracy. I`m sorry?

GRACE: Explain to me again the father`s part.

STERN: The father was in Mexico, and the father was supposed to pay off the hitman after the hitman committed the hit.

GRACE: Got you.

STERN: So the hitman played along with the prosecution team and then said he was going to fly down to Mexico to collect the money. And when the father went out to the airport to meet the guy, he was, instead, met by FBI agents who took him away.

GRACE: And very quickly, I understand police had the father out in Lexington looking for the body. Is that true?

STERN: It was Bowling Green. He alleged that they disposed of the body five weeks after the murder outside of Bowling Green, Kentucky. But when the father got up there, he couldn`t remember where he`d hid the body, and there are all sorts of other stories with the father.

GRACE: Right. We`ll be right back on the father and son alleged killing machine.

But to tonight`s "All-Points Bulletin." U.S. marshals on the lookout for Thomas Longo, former Ohio prosecutor, in connection with sex assault and weapons possession. Longo is 61, 5`10", 200 pounds, brown eyes. If you have info, 866-4-WANTED.

Local news next for some of you. We`ll all be right back. And remember, live coverage of the sentencing for Joe Smith in Carlie Brucia`s case, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern, Court TV.

Please stay with us, everyone, as we stop to remember Corporal Albert P. Gettings, just 27 years old, a real American hero.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We at NANCY GRACE want very much to help solve unsolved homicides, find missing people. Take a look at 15-year-old Tiffani Toy, last seen San Mateo, California, December 21, 2005. If you have info on this girl, Tiffani Toy, call 650-286-3300 or go online to BeyondMissing.com. Please, help us.

Welcome back, everybody. Straight down to a Nashville story. To Willie Stern, reporter with the "Nashville Scene," Willie, please tell me I`m wrong. Please tell me prosecutors did not cut a deal with the father without knowing where the body of the victim is.

STERN: No, I`m sorry to disappoint, Nancy, but they cut the deal. He was looking at 20 years on the conspiracy to commit murder, and he got a deal for 18 months in a federal medical facility before they had any idea where the body was.

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, medical facility, why?

STERN: Well, you`d have to ask the prosecutors that.

GRACE: Is he sick?

STERN: But clearly it`s raising questions here.

GRACE: Is he sick?

STERN: He`s 78 years old, and he`s frail.

GRACE: Yes, well, so is my father, and he exercises five times a week, OK? So I`m not -- he was healthy enough, fit as a fiddle to commit a double-murder, hire a hitman, and pay him off, according to a wire, an inmate wire that heard the whole thing.

STERN: A lot of people think he got a very sweet deal. The problem is the deal only counts if he`s telling the truth, and I think the jury is very much still out on whether or not anything that he said is true. There`s a lot of potential holes in this story.

GRACE: You know what, Stacy Schneider, don`t disappoint me. I`ve got 28 seconds left. Be honest. Take off that defense cap you wear so beautifully. What`s the likelihood of them ever finding this girl`s body - - Elizabeth, will you show her, the mother of his children, his wife? -- since they did not insist on it in the plea deal?

SCHNEIDER: They`re never finding that body. I know what position I`m supposed to take, but I wouldn`t trust this father and son team for all the tea in China.

GRACE: No way. And you can`t tell me that you forgot where you hid the body.

I want to thank all of you. Thank you, guests, for being with us tonight.

But our biggest thank you for myself and our staff in New York and Atlanta want to thank you for being with all of us, inviting us and our legal stories into your home.

I can`t tell you how much I missed being with you last week. And thank you for being with us tonight.

Coming up, headlines around the world. I`m Nancy Grace signing off for this Monday night. See you here tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END